S1 E9: Double Time

Summary

Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

S1 E9: "Double Time" (October 13, 2021)

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode takes listeners on an in-depth journey behind the scenes of episode nine ("Double Time") of Only Murders in the Building. Hosted by Elizabeth Keener and Kevin Lon, the show features conversations with executive producer Jess Rosenthal, composer Siddhartha Khosla, and LA Philharmonic's second chair bassoonist Michelle Grego. The episode unpacks key plot points, explores the show's signature music, delves into the mysterious allure of the bassoon, and features playful moments, fan theories, and cast insights—all while celebrating the quirky, charming spirit of the Arconia.

---

Episode Breakdown

Episode Recap: Key Plot Developments

(00:27–05:13)

• Jan's fate: Jan is alive, having been stabbed, but claims not to have seen her attacker.
• Zaz Pataki's arrival: Charles' stunt double, played by Jane Lynch, briefly joins the core investigation team—much to Jan’s annoyance.
  • "She didn't welcome me like this, but they embraced death." – Jan (paraphrased by Elizabeth Keener, 01:50)
• Bunny’s Power Move: Bunny has evicted Oliver (who's now staying with Mabel) and called a vote to evict Charles, Mabel, and Oliver from the Arconia.
  • "She has an agenda. She has an HOA agenda." – Elizabeth Keener (02:34)
• Howard’s Spine: Cat guy Howard Morris tries to defend the trio but folds under pressure from Bunny.
• Investigation stakes rise: The only way to save their apartments is to solve the murder.
  • "It would vindicate them big time." – Elizabeth Keener (03:29)
• Clues Revisited:
  • Trash bag Tim carried was not from his apartment (different colored handles)
  • Tim was seeing someone before his death—potentially Jan, due to the discovery of a bassoon cleaner.
    • "Maybe they were just cleaning bassoons." – Kevin Lon (04:22)
    • "Kinky, sexy bassoonist!" – Elizabeth Keener (04:28)
  • Jan lied about her status as first chair bassoon.

---

Guest Segment: Jess Rosenthal (Executive Producer)

(05:52–07:23, 29:42–30:56)

• Producer’s Role: Persistence is key ("begging for a lunch with Steve Martin for three years").
  • "One aspect of being an executive producer is simply persistence... The first couple moves of a project are a big deal." – Jess Rosenthal (06:05)
• Working on Multiple Shows: Split production responsibilities with Dan Fogelman (06:59–07:20)
• Season 2 Insights: Scripts are in development, production is ramping up, and the joy on set is palpable.
  • "The writers are writing, and so it's such a wonderful process to see these, the continuing adventures of our trio..." – Jess Rosenthal (29:42)
  • The season is planned as another 10-episode run.
• On Awards Potential: Early hope for Emmys/Golden Globes, especially with star talent like Amy Ryan.
  • "Amy, you gotta sprinkle some of this magic thing you have on ours. And she promised she would." – Jess Rosenthal (30:25)

---

Deep Dive: Siddhartha Khosla (Composer)

(07:23–22:04)

• Background: Former frontman of Goldspot; transitioned into composing via TV and film placements; long-time collaborator with Dan Fogelman (showrunner of This Is Us).
  • "That band was the thing that helped me become a composer for television, film." – Siddhartha Khosla (07:45)
• Process: Most composition starts with piano, then builds with a 40-piece orchestra.
  • Influences include Bollywood singers, Eric Satie, and Philip Glass.
  • Personal theme song would be "Yedil Na Hota Bechara" by Mohammed Rafi (10:51)
    • "Just very sort of like, quirky, melancholic, you know, slightly humorous, but also...unsettling..." (11:32)
• Creating the Show's Sound:
  • Early direction: "Classic but modern"—bridge old and new to reflect the show's tone and New York setting.
    • "How do you find something that feels old, classic, but modern as well?" – Siddhartha Khosla (14:49)
  • Use of Home Depot buckets as percussion to evoke NYC subway musicians.
    • "We had this drummer come in to play the main title on Home Depot Buckets." (15:44)
• Scoring Approach: Prefers composing before visual cuts are locked; avoids limiting "temp music".
  • "Everyone has a creative vision individually...so I work very early in the process." (17:32)
• Themes and Variations:
  • Less about character-specific themes, more about tonal motifs (e.g., the "Arconia theme").
    • "That becomes a sort of like, Arconia theme." (18:13)
  • Oliver's daydreams, Selena and Tim’s “dystopian” version, built on recurring motifs.
• Bassoon's Role:
  • Integrated more as the show progressed, despite initial reluctance due to its comedic reputation.
    • "But it was also justified because I think the bassoon has this reputation of being overly comedic..." (19:45)
  • The challenge: Keep music dramatic, not comedic, even with quirky undertones.
• Scoring "The Boy from 6B":
  • Scoring a nearly silent episode was one of his proudest challenges.
  • "There was no lead singer...So the melodies, just that line alone told a lot of the story..." (20:52)
• Musical Clues:
  • Confirmed there are clues in the score—some intentional, others discovered as the season evolved.
    • "There, there’s a clue or clues in the music, but the clue...was unintentional [but] as the season progressed, I was like, oh, okay, this could be intentional." – Siddhartha Khosla (28:52)
  • Promises more insights post-finale.

---

Exploring the Bassoon: Michelle Grego

(22:35–28:22)

• Instrument Anatomy: Four main pieces (boot, wing joint, long joint, bell) plus reed.
  • "Your left thumb is responsible for nine keys. So that's what I mean. When it's complicated, it's crazy." – Michelle Grego (23:01)
• Life as a Bassoonist:
  • Usually only four bassoonists in major orchestras; still a male-skewed field but changing.
    • "I'm not second best, but I'm more the supportive actress is what I would say." (25:18)
  • Michelle could tell Jan’s case was a bassoon on episode three:
    • "By the size of it...I was like, that's my life." (26:02)
  • Backstory: Switched from flute to bassoon after a high school band teacher suggested the "rare" instrument (music scholarships followed).
    • "If she can play bassoon well, she'll get a scholarship for college." (26:41)
  • Proud collection of bassoon-themed swag, including reed earrings and mugs.
• Women in Bassoon:
  • Celebrates women breaking the glass ceiling, like Nancy Gore (Pittsburgh) and Judy LeClaire (New York).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Kinky, sexy bassoonist!" – Elizabeth Keener riffing on Jan's mysterious side (04:28)
• "One aspect of being an executive producer is simply persistence... The first couple moves of a project are a big deal." – Jess Rosenthal (06:05)
• "How do you find something that feels old, classic, but modern as well?" – Siddhartha Khosla on the show's sound direction (14:49)
• "We're not used to hearing bassoon, like, and...the direction for me on the score was keep the score as dramatic as possible...I'm playing into the seriousness of what's happening." – Siddhartha Khosla (19:45)
• "The joy and spirit that it was to make this show was so palpable on set and in the process. And I'm just so thrilled that it feels like that spirit and joy has come out through the show itself." – Jess Rosenthal (30:56)
• "The only reason I'm doing what I'm doing is because I had a band director who believed in me...I think music education is the key for anyone and everyone to be able to do what I'm doing." – Michelle Grego on music education’s importance (31:23)
• "There, there’s a clue or clues in the music...Some unintentional, now intentional." – Siddhartha Khosla, teasing musical Easter eggs (28:52)

---

Fan Theories & The Whodunit Summit

(31:54–42:34)

• Hosts’ Pick: Both Elizabeth and Kevin put Bunny as their prime suspect.
  • "I'm going all in on Bunny. Two exclamation points." – Kevin Lon (32:21)
  • "She has access to the building. She’s able to get people evicted. She got a lot of Tim Kono's boxes and packages." – Elizabeth Keener (33:08)
• Listener Theories:
  • Jan: Some listeners suspect Jan, or that she was involved with others.
  • Oscar’s Dad: Motivated by revenge for Oscar’s false imprisonment.
  • Lucy (Charles’ stepdaughter): Possible connection via handwriting and Hardy Boys-like meddling.
  • Lester (Doorman): Could he be Zoe’s father? (Hosts doubtful)
  • Oscar (“Tie-dye guy”): Motive: revenge.
  • Dr. Stanley (Building Therapist): Theory involving accidental poisoning, covering up Tim’s death as a suicide, and possible ties to Jan as a patient/accomplice.
    • "What if Tim's death was an accidental poisoning, covered up to make it look like a suicide?" – Sarah, Listener Email (40:08)
  • Multiple Theories: Some believe two or more characters were in on it.
• Bonus Appreciation: The hosts share gratitude for their listener community’s creativity and for music educators everywhere.

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:27–05:13: Episode summary and clue review.
• 07:23–22:04: Siddhartha Khosla’s segment on composing.
• 22:35–28:22: Michelle Grego explains all about the bassoon.
• 28:38–29:27: Sid’s musical clues.
• 29:42–30:56: Jess Rosenthal on Season 2 and the joy of making the show.
• 31:54–42:34: The Whodunit Summit (hosts’ and listener theories).

---

Final Thoughts

This episode stands out as both witty and illuminating—balancing deep-dive creative discussions (especially on the show’s music and mood), inside production stories, and playful fandom. The hosts’ rapport, paired with fascinating guests, uncovers the intricate layers of Only Murders in the Building while celebrating music, mystery, and the community uniting Arconia diehards.

For newcomers, this episode is a must-listen for insights into the show’s heart and the collaborative artistry behind its success.

Transcript

[Elizabeth Keener]

Straw Hut Media.

[Michelle Grego]

I play in the LA Philharmonic and I happened to have the night off. We were working at the Hollywood Ball that night and my husband and I were here and we turned on the show and had watched several episodes and all of a sudden, in comes the bassoonist into the elevator and I looked at that case and I went, oh my God, it's gonna be a bassoon.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Welcome to episode nine of Only Murders in the Podcast, the second to last episode of season one. If you haven't already, follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening in from. We're putting together some exciting bonus content for our listeners in our lead up to season two. I'm your host Elizabeth Keener, and with my co host and friend Kevin Lon, we're looking behind the scenes and mining for clues as we meet the cast and creators of the Hulu original series, Only Murders in the Building. Today on the podcast, composer Siddhartha Khosla, executive producer Jess Rosenthal, and a little bit more from second chair bassoon of the LA Philharmonic Orchestra, Michelle Grego. As of now, we've seen the first nine episodes. So listeners, beware if you haven't watched, hit the pause button, get caught up and come right back so we don't spoil anything for you, Okay? Kevin?

[Kevin Lon]

Yes, Keener?

[Elizabeth Keener]

This is time for summary.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes. For episode nine, entitled Double Time.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes.

[Kevin Lon]

So what do we know? We know that Jan is not dead. She was stabbed and she says she didn't see who did it.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Right. Oh, we meet Charles, stunt double, played by Jane Lynch. She's brilliant, honestly. Brilliant and hilarious. That's her name. Say it again.

[Kevin Lon]

Zaz Pataki.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes. And she briefly joins the crime solving team.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes. To the chagrin of Jan, who is like, they didn't welcome me like this, but they embraced death.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Poor Jan, she's not welcomed. And she gets stabbed and she plays the bassoon. But that's an exciting thing for us.

[Kevin Lon]

Jan had a rough week.

[Elizabeth Keener]

She had a rough week.

[Kevin Lon]

And we do know that Bunny has evicted Oliver, changed his locks, and Oliver is now staying with Mabel.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes. Who knew?

[Kevin Lon]

And Oscar apparently is staying with Mabel.

[Elizabeth Keener]

So that's three people under staying together

[Kevin Lon]

and an apartment that's being redone.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes. So we know that Bunny just called a vote to evict all of them. Charles, Mabel and Oliver. What's wrong with her?

[Kevin Lon]

She has an agenda.

[Elizabeth Keener]

She does have an agenda. She has an HOA agenda.

[Kevin Lon]

Well, she's saying that everyone complained about them. They had seven complaints each or something like that.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Do you really think that happened?

[Kevin Lon]

Well, who would question her?

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's true. I wouldn't question Bunny.

[Kevin Lon]

I wouldn't question Bunny either. She probably evict both of us. We do know that the only person who came to their defense was Howard Morris, the cat guy. But then he voted to evict them after Bunny bullied him.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah, I know.

[Kevin Lon]

He had his moment, and then kind of.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And then he lost his spine.

[Kevin Lon]

Yeah, I know. But we still love him because he also had complaints against him.

[Elizabeth Keener]

He sure did. Oh, that's right.

[Kevin Lon]

So she was kind of threatening him.

[Elizabeth Keener]

She's cruel. Um, Charles, Oliver and Mabel believe that the only way to save their apartments is to figure out who the murderer is.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes, because that would solve everything. Yeah. All their problems.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It would solve that. It would solve the show.

[Kevin Lon]

It would vindicate them.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It would vindicate them big time. Oh, I love them. Please do it.

[Kevin Lon]

And we also know that the trash bag Tim was carrying in the elevator did not come from his own apartment. Remember, Mabel noticed that the straps, the strings to it were different colors.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, yes.

[Kevin Lon]

Well, one handle was blue. One was, like, orange.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Exactly. Maybe red.

[Kevin Lon]

Maybe red.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You're colorblind.

[Kevin Lon]

Yeah, it's true.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay, we know that Tim was seeing someone before he died and that they had been having loud sex.

[Kevin Lon]

Who do you think it was?

[Elizabeth Keener]

I don't know. I'm excited. There were a lot of sex toys. One looked like a kitty toy.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Right.

[Kevin Lon]

Well, speaking of sex toys, we know that one of the sex toys they found in Tim Kona's apartment was actually a bassoon cleaner. Remember, we thought it might be a cat toy.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's what I thought was a cat.

[Kevin Lon]

Leads us to believe that Jan and Tim may have been sleeping together.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Wow. Yeah. A bassoon cleaner. How do you use that besides cleaning bassoons?

[Kevin Lon]

Maybe they were just cleaning bassoons. Well, maybe a bassoon cleaner is just a bassoon cleaner.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You know what? Sexy bassoonist.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Kinky sexy bassoonist. And Jan lied about being first chair bassoon. And Charles knows. What else is she lying about?

[Kevin Lon]

Well, I've been thinking a lot about this. Do you think she was the first chair and she got demoted to second chair and was embarrassed?

[Elizabeth Keener]

That could be a possibility. Because then all the things that we think of, that she's lying here and lying this. And maybe she really isn't lying. Maybe there are other things.

[Kevin Lon]

Maybe they're white lies or something.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Something into.

[Kevin Lon]

Yeah, but as I said, had a very busy week.

[Elizabeth Keener]

She did. She may or may have not gotten stabbed herself.

[Kevin Lon]

Can you stab yourself oh, yeah.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I do it all the time. I mean, no stab a toe. All right, well, that's it. That's it. Summary.

[Kevin Lon]

That's it for the summary for this week.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yay. One more to go.

[Kevin Lon]

I know.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay, so we're gonna do a quick round of. Would you rather.

[Kevin Lon]

And it's so quick. It's just one question.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Love it.

[Kevin Lon]

Would you rather chug four gut milks or one quart of Demas dip? Go.

[Jess Rosenthal]

I'm gonna go with gut milk because we have said on the show it tastes good. So I feel like I'm going there and it Steve's suggestion, he's like, I think maybe there's some alcohol in there. And so that sounds fun.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's Jess Rosenthal, gut milk lover and executive producer of Only Murders in the Building. He's also an executive producer on the hit NBC series this Is Us. But what exactly is an executive producer?

[Jess Rosenthal]

So I have a bit of a dream job in that it's executive producers across shows and companies, I find can do all kinds of things. On this one, it will. Was the sort of. Well, first begging for a lunch with Steve Martin for three years. Please, please, please. To the agent, just one lunch one day, he said, all right. If you and Dan drive up to Montecito, he'll have lunch with you. And so one aspect of being an executive producer is simply persistence and how are you going to create these projects? And the first couple moves of a project are a big deal. Sitting down with Steve and say, so you want an idea? That was a good first move.

[Kevin Lon]

Were you in production for Only Murders and this is Us at the same time?

[Jess Rosenthal]

Yeah, we were last year. The way we. Dan and I kind of split it up is Dan was here in Los Angeles on this Is Us. He also just had a baby, and so traveling to New York was not in the cards. And so I went to New York, happily so, and was on set for these five, six months.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Another crossover from this is Us came with the music.

[Jess Rosenthal]

Sid Khosla is our fantastic composer, and he's an old friend of Dan and I. We all went to pen together.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Siddhartha Khosla, or Sid, as people call him, had a band called Gold Spot. Back in the early 2000s, he was signed to Universal, went on big tours, and even played Glastonbury with Arcade Fire and Bjork.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Ultimately, though, that band was like the thing that helped me become a composer for television, film. You know, my music had been placed in TV and films, and Dan Fogelman was, you know, even a friend of Mine from college. He was a big fan of what I was doing too, and always recognized that for hearing that music, he's like, I think he can do this too.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You know, Sid has worked with Dan Fogelman a lot over the years and has been scoring this Is Us during its entire six season run.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

And Dan created that as a showrunner that Dan also produces Only Murders. And, and so Dan introduced me to John Hoffman, who you guys have interviewed on your podcast. Because I've actually, my wife and I have been listening to your podcast, by the way.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Thank you. Yes, it's awesome.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

It's so good. It's so good. And, and we've been, we've been listening to it on, taking a couple road trips recently, and I'm like, let's put on the Only Murders podcast.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Sid says he plays a little bit of everything, but most of his composing happens alone with a piano. When you listen to the music in Only Murders, though, you hear a lot more than just piano and voice. There's an entire 40 piece orchestra for that. Sid says he has a team to help him.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

But, yeah, I think most of the heart of the score is beginning on neon piano, usually, and just sort of like. And then developing from there.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Sid's interest in music started when he was very young. He told us his mother had a beautiful voice, but not a great ear. His father, on the other hand, had a great ear but not much of a voice. He likes to think he got the best of both of them and his mom supported his musical talents throughout his growing up.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Until I wanted to do it. Until I wanted to do it as a career.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

And then, and then, and then like, then like the, you know, the South Asian mom comes in and she's like, no way.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You know, like, stop there.

[Kevin Lon]

There's law school pamphlets on your dining room table.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

It's funny you say that because I. When I. In my senior year of college, I applied, I took the LSAT to apply for law school. And then, and then I canceled my score and because I wasn't happy with how the long story. But like, I ended up canceling my score because, like, the proctor ended all the sections early and I was like, I'm not gonna get my best score. Let me cancel it. And then I end up starting a band.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And then you start different scores. A whole score of music. There you go. See, Sid's career involves creating theme music for TV and movies. And we were curious if there was a song that could be a theme for his own life.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Theme song for my own life. Would be. Would be something from my childhood, and that would be like, you know, that would be like, this 19, the music that my parents grew up listening to. So it's like these, like, old Bollywood singers from the 1960s and 70s, and they. I mean, I'll tell you the name of the song, but no one's gonna know it.

[Kevin Lon]

Go for it.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

It's Yedil Na Hota Becharat. It's by Mohammed Rafi. M O H D R A F

[Michelle Grego]

I and check it out, it's a bob.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Here's the original music from the 1967 film the Jewel Thief.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

And just very sort of like, quirky, melancholic, you know, slightly humorous, but also, like, slightly off putting, like, slightly unsettling, like something's not right. And very much like the only murder score.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Jess says that Sid was one of the first calls after the pilot was written.

[Jess Rosenthal]

Sid, read this script. Tell us what you think.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

I wrote Dan an email after I read the script, and I said, there's one line. I said, murders is magic, and that's all I wrote. And John to this day, says that Dan forwarded that email to John, and John said, you got the show in those murders in those three words.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Sid says it was that email that got him into the room with Dan, Jess, and John Hoffman. Up to this point, throughout the pandemic, with all production stopped, Sid had been spending a lot of time alone composing, inspired by the music of Eric Satie and Philip Glass.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

I played some of that music that I was writing for John over the phone, and then I also played him what I never thought was going to be the theme of the show. And I was like, oh, I got this, too. After reading his script, I was like, I'm feeling this for whatever reason. And. And John was like, wait a minute. What was that thing that you just played? And I played it for him, And then I was. And I played that for John, and he was like, I'm done. He was like that. He goes, sid, that's my theme. And I was like, what are you talking about? I was like. I just was like. I was like, what do you mean? That's my theme? And he was like, no, that's it. That's my show right there.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Sid was surprised because he thought of the music as a work in progress.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

And that's the beauty of, like, the right collaboration and the right partners that you work with. Right. It's like someone recognizes something in you that you didn't even know you had, which is what my relationship with Dan Fogelman has been like for my entire scoring career is that he recognized that I could. He wanted me to score his stuff. And I didn't think I could score. Like, I was like, I'm in a band. I was like, I don't. This is like. And that piece right there is very much inspired by the music that I, like, grew up listening to. When they went to the US Hearing

[Elizabeth Keener]

Sid's story about the magical way the theme music was realized reminds us of how magically, a lot of elements seem to have come together on the show.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Well, when you have Steve Martin and Marty Short and Selena Gomez in your cast, you basically get anything and anyone you want.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's true. Sid worked with the producers to develop the final mood and tone of the music.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Direction from producers generally on the project was in finding the sound of the show. They were like, hey, can you find something that feels old, classic, but modern as well? How do you do that?

[Jess Rosenthal]

Sort of a philosophy was born early on on the show, which is like, we just felt like this show should be the clash of the modern or the classic meets the modern. And so really, that sort of infected all of these departments, and in particular in music. And so for Sid, I think that was like, he went towards a classical piece of music, but done in modern, interesting ways.

[Elizabeth Keener]

When Sid was first composing the title music, he recorded it using the instruments he had in his studio. A piano, an auto harp, and a couple of xylophones.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

And it was Dan Fogelman that said to me, he's like, can you toughen this up somehow? Like, just toughen it up. I want to feel something a little more aggressive. And then another producer, Jess, was like, hey, how do you make this a little more New York? So I took those directions. We had this drummer come in to play the main title on Home Depot Buckets. So what you're hearing there is Home Depot Buckets. It's like a street musician that you might see, like, in the subway and playing along. And so that sort of completed that.

[Jess Rosenthal]

And it's just these wonderful touches that kind of make the music sort of come alive and. And the hope is, you know, feel like New York. Which, of course, is such a mix of classic and modern itself.

[Elizabeth Keener]

If you're curious about how the process of composing a score works, we were, too.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Composers work differently in Hollywood. Like, everyone has their own process. Some composers like to work to what's called lock picture, right? And so the producers and editors have already put the picture together. It's not changing an inch at this point. Goes to the composer. It's filled with all sorts of, like, temporary music known as temp music, that sort of, like, is placeholder.

[Elizabeth Keener]

The problem with temp music, Sid says, is that it leads the creative direction. And as a composer, you end up chasing a sound or a feeling, which can be very limiting.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

And especially on a show like this, which is such a creative process, like, from every element of the production, everyone has a creative vision individually that they're bringing to this thing. And so I work very early in the process, so editors will send me stuff, directors will send me scenes, and

[Kevin Lon]

I'll work kind of tying into that. Were there themes to specific characters or episodes?

[Siddhartha Khosla]

There's more of, like, a tonal thing that happens as opposed to thematic. So here, let me go back to. It's better if I sort of explain on the piano.

[Kevin Lon]

Yeah, please do.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

And so the other piece I started writing was. Right, and that becomes a sort of, like, Arconia theme. Like in the elevator when they're going to Sting's place. I sent that to John, too. That's before I saw any picture. I was like, this show's making me. Making me feel that. And John's like, yep, that's awesome. Like that. We need that, too.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Variations on that theme come up throughout the episodes and in different situations. Oliver's daydreams, for example, his fantasy sequences

[Siddhartha Khosla]

are all based on the. It's all based on that, where he's interviewing everybody and he's like, back of the line, you know? And Selena and Tim Kono have sort of their own sort of, like, almost like dystopian sort of, like, version of whatever that is. It's more the. When she's imagining him. Hey, look. What are you doing?

[Kevin Lon]

You know, that's, like, haunting.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. As Sid watched the show come together, he started to incorporate more and more bassoon into the music.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

And there was some concern early on from the producers, like, wait a minute. Like, wait. Like, we're not used to hearing bassoon, like, and. But it was also justified because I think the bassoon has this reputation of being overly comedic, too. And I think the sort of, like, the direction for me on the score was keep the score as dramatic as possible, too. You know, like, we are. I'm playing into the seriousness of what's happening. I'm not playing into the comedy ever. I try not to. Obviously, there's some quirkiness to the score, but it's not like you don't listen to the score and put on headphones, listen to it, and start, like, laughing out loud. You Know you. But in the context of somewhat. Some of what happens, you do laugh.

[Elizabeth Keener]

There were a lot of challenging aspects to balance in creating the score for only murders. Episode 7. The boy from 6B was especially difficult. Sid told us that there had been discussion to make the entire episode silent without even a score. Ultimately, though, they decided to keep the music, even if there was no dialogue.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Normally, when I score something, I look at sort of like the. The dialogue as the lead singer. Let's say we're talking about a band, right? Dialogue, when actors are talking, that's sort of like your lead singer, and then the music is the band around, right? That's how I sort of see that when I'm working on score oftentimes. But now we didn't have a lead all of a sudden, right? There was no lead singer, there was no dialogue, nobody to sort of carry it. So the. The melodies, Just that line alone told a lot of the story, and it was just sort of how I sort of changed the instrumentation around it to sort of set the right mood. But that episode was, I mean, just for me, just creatively just like one of my proudest things I've ever gotten to do, you know?

[Kevin Lon]

So that was the most challenging one to do for this series.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

It was the most challenging. I mean, well, the finale for me was the most challenging in terms of the amount of heavy liftings. So wait for that.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, Michelle Grego teaches us everything we never learned about the bassoon. Jess updates us on season two, and Sid gives us a clue. Welcome back. Today we're talking to executive producer Jess Rosenthal, composer Siddhartha Khosla, and bassoonist for the LA Phil, Michelle Grego.

[Michelle Grego]

So I have my bassoon next to me, and basically it's four main pieces to the instrument. So this is the bottom of the instrument or the boot, and it has all these wonderful keys. All these are for my right thumb.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay.

[Michelle Grego]

So the next piece is called the Wing Joint. Like a chicken wing. I don't know why they call it the wing joint, but there's the wing

[Kevin Lon]

joint and it just clicks in there.

[Michelle Grego]

It just. It's basically cork, and it fits inside the cork, and you have to be kind of careful how to assemble it. The funny story about me with the bassoon was the first time I saw one in a lesson. It was already put together, and then my teacher helped me put it back in the case. When I got home to show it to mom and Dad. I didn't know how to put it together. The next piece is the long joint, so it's basically the longest joint. But now we're kind of coming into our own. Believe it or not, your left thumb is responsible for nine keys. So that's what I mean. When it's complicated, it's crazy. A little bit crazy. And then the last piece is the bell, which, of course goes on top. And then. I'm not done yet.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We're here.

[Michelle Grego]

We have to put a reed on it, right. So we have to put in. It's like vocal. Like vocal cords, but it's a vocal with a B, B, O, C, a

[Kevin Lon]

L. It kind of looks like a hook.

[Michelle Grego]

Right. It's called a crook sometimes. So very, very good. And then if I were to just blow on it without a re, I get nothing. Okay. So then my reed, which is a double reed, has a little tip opening, and I make all these. And it has to have a little bit of water to make it vibrate. And then it kind of a dead pro, but it makes a noise by itself. Yeah. I kind of took my headphones off so I can kind of hear myself.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And there's bassoon. For those of you, like me, that don't know much about the bassoon, it's a double reed woodwind instrument in the tenor and bass ranges. Another double reed woodwind you probably do know is the oboe, which is smaller and plays in the higher range.

[Michelle Grego]

Bassoon, though, is just. It's bigger. It's more cumbersome. The fingerings are really complicated. You have to be a certain height.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You can't be short and petite in larger orchestras. Most bassoon sections have four players. In Michelle's the LA Phil, she's the only female bassoon player. And while the instrument tends to skew male, she says more and more women are breaking that glass ceiling.

[Michelle Grego]

Now, in terms of, like, first bassoon players and major orchestras, I can think of Nancy Gore's in Pittsburgh and Judy LeClaire in New York, which, for me, that's, like, great. I'm just so happy to see women sitting in the first chair. I'm the second chair, so I'm not second best, but I'm more the supportive actress is what I would say.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Right. Michelle told us that as soon as Jan walked onto the elevator in episode three, she could tell by the case that there was a bassoon inside.

[Michelle Grego]

Well, the funny thing is the case had all these stickers on it. And bassoon players don't do that. Cellists will do that. A cello case will be covered with all the travels that they've done. Cellists, bassoon players are a little more nondescript. They have a little fancier case. Her case was a little dated.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I'll.

[Michelle Grego]

But I still knew by the size of it and the way she was carrying it, I was like, that's my life.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We actually notice a lot of similarities between Michelle and Jan. Just like Jan, Michelle also started out on the flute before moving to the bassoon.

[Michelle Grego]

I was entering the 10th grade in high school, and my band director approached me. I was a good flute player, and he kind of picked a couple of us that were sitting in the first and second chairs. And he said, how about playing the bassoon? And I said, sure. And then I said, I'll go home and talk to my parents. But I left his office and went to the band room and looked up on the wall to figure out what's a bassoon.

[Elizabeth Keener]

As many deals.

[Kevin Lon]

So you said yes before you really knew what it was.

[Michelle Grego]

I didn't know how it sounded. I didn't know what it looked like. I knew it. Yeah, can I get. Yeah, exactly. And I grew up in Minnesota, and carrying it in the snow drifts, that's kind of an issue, right. So I then went home to my parents, and they said, no, you're not going to play the bassoon. Because of course, they didn't know what it was either. And I went back to my band director. He called my dad and talked him into it with the word scholarship. He said, if she can play. If she can play bassoon, well, she'll get a scholarship for college.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's amazing.

[Kevin Lon]

And was he right?

[Michelle Grego]

Absolutely. I went to three different colleges, and I got one at every school.

[Kevin Lon]

That's amazing.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Wow.

[Elizabeth Keener]

While Michelle may not have a sexy bassoon T shirt like Jan, she does have a lot of other swag.

[Michelle Grego]

I'm wearing bassoon reed earrings, and I have my Covid mask with the bassoon on it.

[Kevin Lon]

She is wearing it.

[Michelle Grego]

I have my trusty coffee mug with gold bassoons on it, and my Christmas ornaments are packed away. But I have several Christmas bassoons for the Christmas tree. But when I saw that shirt on the TV show, I stopped the tv, took a photo, and I have it for life. I'm like, oh, my word. One of my closest high school friends, she still plays. She plays in the Minnesota Opera. And we just talked the other day, and I told her I was going to be doing this, and. And she was telling me what bassoon things she had, and I'm not going to quote what her shirt said. Because it was just way too. I was like, I'm not going there.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Admittedly, we're a lot more suspicious of Jan these days than of Michelle. Grego. Jan might be a murderer. Michelle definitely is not. Before we said goodbye to composer Sid Khosla, we decided to see if he had any inside knowledge on who the killer was.

[Kevin Lon]

We're up to episode nine. We have not seen the last episode yet. We wanted to ask you, as the composer, did you have clues in your music?

[Jess Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Yes.

[Kevin Lon]

Oh, that was fast.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

You know, the only thing I will say about that is that, yeah, there is a clue. There's. There, there. There's a clue or clues in the music, but the clue in the. Early on, it was unintentional. But as the season progressed, I was like, oh, okay, this could be intentional. So that's all I will say. And I promise, I promise after the finale, I promise we can do this again.

[Kevin Lon]

And I'll tell you with that. Oh, excellent.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Awesome. And of course, with season one almost over and the opportunity to talk to an executive producer, we had to get the scoop about season two. What's going on with season two? Can you tell us what's happening right now?

[Jess Rosenthal]

It's an exciting time. The writers are writing, and so it's such a wonderful process to see these, the continuing adventures of our trio and where they might go from here. So scripts are being written, production is mounting, stages are being built, and we begin again in fall in New York.

[Kevin Lon]

Will it be 10 episodes again?

[Jess Rosenthal]

I believe so. 10 episodes.

[Kevin Lon]

Oh, nice. Well, the cast, the writers, the directors, everyone's phenomenal. Has there been talk of Emmys or Golden Globes or any kind of awards?

[Jess Rosenthal]

Gee, from your lips. Early on, meeting a hero of mine, Amy Ryan, I just adore shows of her. She's been on some of my favorite shows of all time. The wire in the office said, amy, you gotta sprinkle some of this magic thing you have on ours. And she promised she would. So it sure seems like she's come

[Elizabeth Keener]

through at the end of the day. Like everyone else we've talked to, Jess is grateful that we're all enjoying watching the show as much as they enjoyed making it.

[Jess Rosenthal]

The joy and spirit that it was to make this show was so palpable on set and in the process. And I'm just so thrilled that it feels like that spirit and joy has come out through the show itself.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Coming up next, KK and I make our guesses. And make sure you stick around until after the credits to hear the last round of Listener submitted theories. But before that, a quick but enthusiastic shout out to all the music educators out there.

[Michelle Grego]

The only reason I'm doing what I'm doing is because I had a band director who believed in me and picked me out and supported me, and I still know him. And I think music education is the key for anyone and everyone to be able to do what I'm doing. Because I really shouldn't be doing this. It just doesn't make sense that I'm doing this. But I am. And it's like winning the lottery to do this. I'm really happy doing it.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay, Kevi, you know what time it is?

[Kevin Lon]

Yes. My favorite time. And I remember what you call it finally.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Well, why don't you say it this time?

[Kevin Lon]

This is time for the whodunit summit. Yay. I've been taking my ginkgo biloba. And it finally kicked in. So this is the part of the podcast where Keener and I each put who we think murdered Tim Kono into an envelope and open it now. So, Keener, do you want to open mine?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes, I will open yours. So here we go. Okay.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Careful.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It is Bunny. Oh, I'm going all in on money. Two exclamation points. Well, she is like. Something's the matter with her.

[Kevin Lon]

As I mentioned before in the first episode, Oliver's son at his house had a stuffed bunny on the counter. And I feel like that's just a good. It could be a red herring.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. Or a red honey. Okay, Bunny. Very good. Why here? Good luck with mine.

[Kevin Lon]

All right, here we go.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You did you still need help with that

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Bunny?

[Kevin Lon]

Is this our first time?

[Elizabeth Keener]

We both agreed, so I feel like it may be one other time. I can't remember, but this one for sure.

[Kevin Lon]

Why do you think it's funny this week?

[Elizabeth Keener]

I just think there are too many things and pointing to her. There's two like that she could, you know, and some of our. We're going to get to new emails, but really they pointed out that. That she is. Has access. She has access to the building. Everything.

[Kevin Lon]

She's able to get people evicted.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes. And she. She got a lot of Tim Kono's boxes and packages. So that was really great. I'm so happy that we finally agreed on something in the world. So, listeners, do you have a theory about who killed Tim Kono? Let us know. Email [e-mail] thanks for listening to episode 9 of Only Murders in the Pod. Only Murders in the Pod is a production of Straw Hut Media the show is hosted by Elizabeth Keener and Kevin Lon. Produced by Ryan Tillotson, Maggie Bowles and William Sterling. Associate producer is Stephen Markley. Music by Kyle Merritt. And big, big thanks to John Hoffman, Ari Abishe, and the entire Hulu Team.

[Kevin Lon]

See you next week again from Keener's Closet.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Bye. Okay, so, Kevi.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Now we're going to fan mail. Yes. Listener mail. But you know what? I'm gonna give it to you. Yeah, there was somebody. Who was it? Brandy. Thank you. She said if she wasn't a listener and she was a fan, she would be a keener. A keen er. Thank you, Brandi.

[Kevin Lon]

Thank you, Brandy.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay, so some from some of our listeners. Here we go. Derek and Caitlin. We're just, you know, there's so many. We just want to. Yeah, we'll just kind of sum it up. Who they think. Yeah. And thank you. They really. Some of them really fleshed things out, but just. Right. Derek and Caitlyn think it's Jan. Caitlyn

[Kevin Lon]

thinks Jan may be in on it, but she doesn't think Jan actually murdered Tim. Conor.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay, so it's a group.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

With her. Okay, thank you. Excellent. All right, the next one. Oh, all right. On the bunny wagon. Who's on the bunny wagon? Besides us?

[Kevin Lon]

There's a lot on the bunny.

[Elizabeth Keener]

There's a lot. There's. Oh, Jennifer. Oh, Jennifer's back. She thought it was Theo before, but.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes. Jennifer from New York is trying again.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Trying again.

[Kevin Lon]

After her failed Theodemus.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, you know what failed? How many of you had.

[Kevin Lon]

You went on heavy with Theo Demas? I did.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I did.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And then also Valerie jumped on the bunny bandwagon. And then Alicia. It's also Ally. Right. Ally. So Ally thinks it's funny. I'm going to read this because she had some interesting things, right, because she has threatened Oliver, and we see Oliver get a threat. Bunny means business. She wanted Oliver to stop the podcast because she didn't want Demas to go down because he's her biggest contributor to building dues and donations. Tim Kono tried to take him down, so she had to kill him in order not to lose any money. Sexy bassoonist lady probably knows something because the killer went after her. Unless it was staged and she sits at her window often to play the bassoon. Like Rear Window. You know, Alfred Hitchcock.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

Ooh.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Since the one Dayers mentioned there was something, there's someone else involved. She's going to piggyback on an Instagram theory that Will has a hand in this as well. But she's 99. Sure. It's Bunny. So there's a lot of. A lot of things that she said, which is really. Oh, there's some. I just want to read this part because this is interesting. Remember, there was a clue from one of our guests about an anagram.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes. And it was, like, hidden in the script.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Hidden in the script. And I'm just going to read this from Ali. Yeah. I really think it's funny. Based on the clue that the murderer is the actor whose birthplace is an anagram from dialogue of one of the first seven episodes. I think I've found it. The actress was born in Miami. I don't remember which episodes. These are all from. I was going crazy this morning. Well, we're. We're going crazy reading that. She went in. That was a deep, deep dive. But good for you.

[Kevin Lon]

So we have a few people who also think it's Oscar's dad, the building superintendent.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Right, right.

[Kevin Lon]

Thinks that Robert.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes.

[Kevin Lon]

And Chloe.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And Chloe does. You know, they all feel like there's revenge because his son was, you know, was in jail for 10 years, something

[Kevin Lon]

that he didn't do, and he's seeking vengeance. And it could have been like Bunny. He has access to all the units and can be walking around, and it wouldn't be suspicious.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Exactly. Right. So the grudge and access, they all thought.

[Kevin Lon]

Oh, you know what else Chloe said? She said that we're amazing hosts, that she loves our podcast.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, Chloe. I think I read that, like, 10 times. Thanks, Chloe. You're the best. Okay, so also, I think Chloe also thinks Jan is Theo's mom.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

She said that. Yeah. Okay, so let's see who thinks it's Lucy.

[Kevin Lon]

Yeah. So Lucy is Charles kind of stepdaughter daughter.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. Remember that because. Well, Holly thinks it's. It's Holly. Lucy. Because. Because there's some sort of penmanship conspiracy thing that's going on.

[Kevin Lon]

Matches with the notes that were left on the door.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. And a Valentine's Day card that I don't remember. But she. Holly, seems to remember seeing that. Looked all the same in writing. And also.

[Kevin Lon]

Also suspecting Lucy is Anthony Zachary and Beatrice from Dallas, Texas. They think Lucy's about the age of the Hardy Boys and maybe was excluded or included or maybe knew them.

[Elizabeth Keener]

She may have been Hardy boising herself because she didn't get included. But also, we have to remember they sent us a really great picture. Thank you, guys. And Beatrice is their dog, to be clear. To be clear. Thank you. So now, going on to the one person who Thinks it's Lester.

[Kevin Lon]

Lester the doorman.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And that is.

[Kevin Lon]

So Janet thinks that Lester is Zoe's dad. Now, if you recall, Zoe's family is super wealthy and owns the 11th floor of the Arcone.

[Michelle Grego]

Right.

[Kevin Lon]

So I'm going to say that is probably wrong.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah, I think. I think he said, put a pin in it. Which is like the perfect thing to

[Kevin Lon]

circle back to that, Janet.

[Elizabeth Keener]

But good job, Janet. Good try. Okay, so then also we have. Oh, Heather. Heather. Heather thinks it's Oscar.

[Kevin Lon]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Keener]

The tie dye guy. But we know him as Oscar now.

[Kevin Lon]

And now she thinks that the boy

[Elizabeth Keener]

is also Mabel's love. Yes, we got it all. He's doing. He has a lot of like. Like. Like Dash. You know, tie guy, Dash. Tenure in jail Dash. You know, it's like, now he's making out with Selena. Yeah.

[Michelle Grego]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay, so. But the biggest motive is revenge.

[Kevin Lon]

That's because he went to jail for 10 years.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's right. And was riding there rotting. Well, he doesn't look like he was rotting when he came out.

[Kevin Lon]

He looks pretty fine.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, on the inside.

[Kevin Lon]

Oh, God.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Aren't we all mentally.

[Kevin Lon]

Yeah, good point. So now we have two people who think it's Dr. Stanley.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Remember Dr. Stanley? He takes Venmo.

[Kevin Lon]

He's the therapist.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And on floor six. And the two people are.

[Kevin Lon]

Sarah thinks it's Dr. Stanley, and so does Leslie in North Carolina.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes. And I'm going to read Sarah's because she really.

[Kevin Lon]

Yeah, she had some good points.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah, some really good points. Here we go. What if Tim's death was an accidental poisoning, covered up to make it look like a suicide? We see on the tox report Tim is on an antidepressant. And we know he came from floor six with apparent suicide notes in a trash bag. And we know that the resident therapist, Dr. Stanley, lives on floor six and she says takes Venmo. Remember, that theory is Dr. Stanley accidentally gave him a lethal dose of secobarbital used for insomnia, which interacted with both alcohol and his antidepressant and killed him in order to make it look like a suicide. To save his own hide, the doctor pulls the fire alarm and enters Tim's apartment to stage a suicide. And then she gives us a little bonus. Jan admits she's in therapy and is obviously shady and suspicious. She may be a patient of Dr. Stanley's being blackmailed in into infiltrating our group in order to steer the investigation away from the doctor or her as an accomplice. I'm watching. You could have been A warning from Stanley. And then she gives an extra bonus.

[Kevin Lon]

Another bonus.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Another bonus. We know neighboring apartments can overhear conversations. Remember that you mentioned that about the vents?

[Kevin Lon]

Because that was in the first place. Episode Mabel's apartment in the bathroom.

[Elizabeth Keener]

She stood up and listened. So with Teddy living in 6B and Stanley in 6C, he could have overheard Oliver talking about the podcast. For that matter, Jan and 6A could have as well. Why do all the bad guys live on the same floor? And then she had extra, extra bonus. I mean, she went bonus on top of. She's like. She's so in, she's out. You know what I'm saying? The. The doc could have easily poisoned Winnie because Oliver never locks the his doors. Super bonus. This also explains why we see Uma pop out to give Charles the stink eye while he's waiting on Mabel inside Teddy's. Teddy's apartment. She lives in 3F but was in a session on 6th floor, so. And that's Uma. You remember? She's our funny, funny woman that's like, give the glass the one she gets the finger. Finger. Yeah, the bird. The bird lady.

[Kevin Lon]

Flip the bird.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Flipping to the bird in the beginning. So.

[Kevin Lon]

So that makes us wonder, is Tim Kono a patient or was he a patient? Dr. Stanley.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Right. Why are they all on the 6th?

[Kevin Lon]

And as she mentioned there, we do know Zas found the two glasses in Tim Kona's apartment that had liquor in it. So we know he had a guest, and maybe that liquor interacted with his medication.

[Elizabeth Keener]

By the way, when you say Zas, you got to say the whole name.

[Kevin Lon]

Zas Pataki.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Always. And on that note, Zaspataki. We're out.

[Siddhartha Khosla]

We're out.

[Kevin Lon]

Bye. Bye.