S2 E1: Persons of Interest & Framed

Summary

Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

Season 2 Episode 1: "Persons of Interest & Framed"

Release Date: June 29, 2022
Host: Michael Cyril Creighton (Howard), with Elizabeth Keener, Kevin Lan
Guests: John Hoffman (co-creator, showrunner), Noah Levine (co-writer), Jackie Hoffman (Uma Heller)

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Episode Overview

This premiere episode of the official "Only Murders in the Building" podcast dives into the first two episodes of season two, unpacking the latest mysteries, character developments, and behind-the-scenes moments. Hosts Elizabeth Keener and Kevin Lan are joined by showrunner John Hoffman, co-writer Noah Levine, and Jackie Hoffman (who plays Uma Heller), offering wit, warmth, and revealing details about how the Arconia’s murder-mystery podcast-within-a-podcast continues to surprise and delight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Recap: Where Season 2 Begins

[01:44 – 03:37]

• The trio (Charles, Oliver, and Mabel) are now "persons of interest" after Bunny’s murder and are forbidden from podcasting.
• Notable new characters: Alice (artist, potential new love interest for Mabel), Amy Schumer (as herself, moves into Sting’s old apartment), and Leonora (Bunny’s mother, played by Shirley MacLaine).
• The missing Rose Cooper painting becomes a central mystery; its subject links to Charles’ family history.
• Mabel receives a social media message that opens a new chapter for her character.

Memorable quote:
"Charles, Oliver and Mabel are being interrogated by the police...And Bunny was stabbed eight times with a knife, but the murder weapon was replaced by Mabel's knitting needle." — Elizabeth Keener [01:44]

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2. Season 2 Structure: Fame vs. Infamy

[04:45 – 10:58]

• Major Theme: The intersection of being "famous" and "infamous" in New York.
• John Hoffman describes intentionally starting season two "on the hot seat," so the trio faces public suspicion and scrutiny.
• The decision to have them instantly become New York "talk of the town" – for all the wrong reasons.

Quote:
"You can be the talk of the town in New York...And what happens when the good side and the bad side come together is what was really intriguing to me for our trio." — John Hoffman [04:58]

• Writing a half-hour comedy mystery is a challenge; each detail is tightly plotted, clues meticulously planted for future episodes.

Quote:
"You don't really get to start the first episode until you’ve figured out the whole damn thing. So everything that's in each episode is very specifically chosen." — John Hoffman [08:38]

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3. Meta Moments & New Faces

[03:18 – 14:00]

• Amy Schumer and Shirley MacLaine join the cast as themselves (Amy) or as new characters (Leonora), with their own quirks and connections to old mysteries.
• Amy approaches Oliver about adapting the podcast for TV; the show plays with meta-humor regarding podcast adaptations and the business of true crime.
• Charles’ acting comeback is tinged with the negative—a running joke is that he's referenced as "not dead" in casting sheets.
• Mabel becomes the viral "Bloody Mabel", creating both anxiety and unexpected opportunities.

Quote:
"The fame or infamy is pretty complicated for all three of them." — Kevin Lan [14:14]

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4. Mabel’s New Arc: Art and Romance

[14:31 – 18:14]

• Exploration of Mabel’s response to trauma; rather than focusing on death, she’s drawn into the world of Alice and the art collective.
• Mabel’s social media-driven notoriety leads her into the art world—show as mechanism for connection amidst chaos.
• Themes of modern romance and self-discovery tied to New York’s ability to open new social and creative doors.

Notable exchange:
“She says, you know, I've had enough. I need to get away from death...And for this bizarre circumstance to put her sort of square in the center of a social media storm in a small way in New York, with our own hashtag that's unflattering, but then draws...connection as well.” — John Hoffman [15:33–16:03]

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5. The Arconia and the Painting: Setting as Character

[24:33 – 27:08]

• The building’s history grows richer: Arconia’s secrets (peepholes, secret passages) created by Bunny’s grandfather, new power struggles post-murder.
• The Rose Cooper painting is both a symbol and a clue—its provocative content and mysterious disappearance anchor much of the evolving mystery.

Quote:
"It’s the cliche… to say, oh, the building is a character in the story ... but I genuinely wanted it to be." — John Hoffman [24:41]

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6. Shirley MacLaine, the Cocotini, and On Set Surprises

[22:02 – 24:09]

• Shirley MacLaine’s casting as Leonora Folger is both a coup and a source of amusement; the creation of the “cocotini” drink is rooted in John Hoffman & Shirley’s real-life friendship.
• A cocotini (coconut-based martini) appears in the show as a knowing wink.

Quote:
"Literally. A cocotini is what we drink every time we get together." — John Hoffman [22:44]
“Shirley called me after reading it and she said, oh, you clever thing. Of course I’m doing this… The cocatini was the reason why.” — John Hoffman [23:57]

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7. The Colorful Residents: Jackie Hoffman’s Uma

[29:06 – 33:34]

• Jackie Hoffman’s Uma is discussed as embodying “quintessential New York.”
• Jackie originally auditioned for Ursula (“gut milk lady”), bringing her signature abrasive style to Uma instead.
• Uma’s dislike of the main trio is partly rooted in imagined long-standing feuds and classic NY resentment.

Memorable exchange:
“She does seem to seethe with hatred around them. I almost feel like... she auditioned for Oliver and he rejected her. Or...she met Brazos in the street and he dissed her…And Selena, you have to hate on principle because she’s young and pretty and she got everything going for her.” — Jackie Hoffman [31:08]

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8. Behind-the-Scenes Cast Chemistry

[30:11 – 34:01]

• Shirley MacLaine’s performance, including in the cheese-cutting scene, is called out for its brilliance.
• Every Arconia group scene becomes a showcase for the roster of NY stage veterans and scene-stealers.

Quote:
“Everybody in the building too. Brought it on every take…Everyone’s like, you know, this is my 4 second moment. I’m not gonna let this get away from me. They did.” — Jackie Hoffman [30:13]

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9. Clues, Red Herrings, and Anagrams

[37:16 – 38:20]

• Noah Levine offers a cryptic hint for armchair detectives: “We really had our fun with the anagrams.”
• The showrunners deliberately “plant” lots of clues and red herrings early in the season.

Quote:
“We did a lot of planting. We were farmers.” — Noah Levine [37:40]

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10. Whodunit Summit: Fan Theories

[38:22 – 41:24]

• Elizabeth Keener and Kevin Lan lock in their predictions for Bunny’s killer: K.K. suspects Cinda Canning (Tina Fey), citing jealousy and branding clues; Keener picks Poppy, Cinda’s assistant, pointing to underdog ambition.
• Playful banter sets the stage for viewers/listeners to submit their own theories.

Quote:
"I think she's jealous of our trio stealing the spotlight from her...When Bunny was found dead, she's wearing a tie dye hoodie. But it's the merchandise from the fans show..." — Kevin Lan [39:06]
“She wants to be famous. She wants to get some accolades from Cinda, who’s always so mean to her” — Elizabeth Keener [40:17]

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “You can be the talk of the town in New York...and what happens when the good side and the bad side come together is what was really intriguing to me for our trio.” — John Hoffman [04:58]
• "You don't really get to start the first episode until you’ve figured out the whole damn thing." — John Hoffman [08:38]
• “Murder can open a door.” — Kevin Lan & Elizabeth Keener [18:14–18:16]
• “Literally. A cocotini is what we drink every time we get together.” — John Hoffman [22:44]
• “She does seem to seethe with hatred around them...she auditioned for Oliver and he rejected her...Selena, you have to hate on principle...” — Jackie Hoffman [31:08]
• “We really had our fun with the anagrams.” — Noah Levine [37:21]

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Segment Timestamps

| Time | Segment/Topic | |----------|------------------------------------------------| | 00:01 | Cold Open Banter | | 01:44 | S2 Episodes 1 & 2 Recap | | 03:51 | John Hoffman Introduction | | 04:45 | Showrunner on Season 2's Opening Structure | | 07:04 | Writing Process with Noah Levine | | 14:31 | Mabel’s Romantic Arc and Artistic Identity | | 18:18 | Charles & The Brazos Reboot | | 22:08 | Shirley MacLaine, the Cocotini, Cast Stories | | 24:33 | Arconia as Character—Production Design | | 27:59 | Bunny’s Memorial and Group Scenes | | 29:06 | Jackie Hoffman on Uma & NY Identity | | 33:34 | Uma & Howard’s Friendship | | 37:16 | Planting Clues, Anagrams in Season 2 | | 38:22 | Whodunit Summit – Host Theories |

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Closing Thoughts

This episode delivers the wit and layered intrigue that "Only Murders in the Building" is known for, blending fan-favorite characters with new mysteries and playful meta-commentary. Rich with cast insights and Easter eggs (“anagrams,” cocotinis, real-life friendships), it sets the tone for a season in which fame, infamy, and suspicion swirl around the Arconia like never before.

For superfans and newcomers alike, the hosts’ banter, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and mystery meta-gaming make this recap as rewarding as the show itself.

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For further clues and listener theories, tune in next episode—and don't forget to try a Shirley MacLaine Cocotini!

Transcript

[Jackie Hoffman]

Straw Hut Media. Yeah, I mean, I'm through. I'm. I'm really stymied that you're even saying your character.

[Kevin Lan]

You are

[Jackie Hoffman]

Uma. Is you Yuma.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. Guess who's back.

[Kevin Lan]

We are.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes, we are.

[Kevin Lan]

But who are we? We're a couple of true crime aficionados.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, yes. We are kind of. Charles, Oliver, and Mabel, the three main characters in the Hula original show. Only murders in the building now in season two.

[Kevin Lan]

And we're here making our own podcast about a show where the characters make a podcast about a murder.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Why are we here? To solve a murder and to try to figure it out before all is revealed in the season finale.

[Kevin Lan]

We may not be in the Arconia ourselves, but we'll get some inside information from members of the cast and crew and clues to help us piece it all together.

[Noah Levine]

Ooh.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Today we'll be talking to co creator and showrunner John Hoffman, Episode one, co writer Noah Levine, and Uma Heller herself, Jackie Hoffman.

[Kevin Lan]

We'll learn about fame vs. Infamy in New York City, the origins of the Cocotini, and the role Jackie Hoffman didn't land when she auditioned for the show.

[Elizabeth Keener]

As of now, we've seen the first two episodes, so listeners beware. We're going to give you a quick recap and if you haven't watched, hit the pause button. Stream episodes one and two now and come right back so we don't spoil anything for you.

[Kevin Lan]

Episode one. So much happens. Charles, Oliver and Mabel are being interrogated by the police.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And Bunny was stabbed eight times with a knife, but the murder weapon was replaced by Mabel's knitting needle.

[Kevin Lan]

They're released, but they're persons of interest and they're told they're not allowed to make any more podcasts.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Charles gets asked to do a reboot of Brazos Uncle Brazos.

[Kevin Lan]

Mabel meets Alice, an interesting young artist who invites her to join her artist collective.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Amy Schumer has moved into Sting's old apartment. She talks to Oliver about adapting the podcast for tv.

[Kevin Lan]

Cinda Canning's Only Murderers in the Building is out, and she's making our trio look very, very guilty.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We learned that right before Bunny. She said the words 14 and savage.

[Kevin Lan]

They sneak into Bunny's apartment and find her bird, Mrs. Gambalini. They learn that a million dollar painting has been stolen from her apartment and she's got a secret elevator in her closet.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Then the painting turns up in Charles apartment and it's his dad and another woman.

[Kevin Lan]

So they decide they have to do the podcast and prove their innocence.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay, now, episode two. A lot of history. In this one, we learn that Bunny's grandfather was the architect of the arconia, and he put secret peepholes and passages throughout the building.

[Kevin Lan]

We meet Bunny's mother, Leonora, Big Bunny. And she wants to know who killed her daughter. And she wants her missing porny painting back.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Charles, Oliver and Mabel try to secretly return the painting without getting caught, but it doesn't go as planned and it ends up in Amy Schumer's apartment.

[Kevin Lan]

We learn that the painter Rose Cooper is died a mysterious death. She lived across the street from the arconia and Charles dad was sleeping with both her and Leonora.

[Elizabeth Keener]

When Leonora finally sees the painting, she says it's not the original. So the painting is still missing.

[Kevin Lan]

And there's a love story budding between Mabel and Alice.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Mm,

[Kevin Lan]

That's a nice painting, John.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Are there any balls in that painting? Behind you?

[Kevin Lan]

Just wanna know.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We're cur. This is John Hoffman. He's the co creator and showrunner of only Murders. Plus he directed the first two episodes this season. John was our very first guest last year, and so it feels only natural for him to be our first guest this year. You'll actually be hearing from him throughout the whole season.

[Kevin Lan]

And John is a fan of our podcast.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Well, he's a listener.

[Kevin Lan]

No, he's a fan. Check it out.

[John Hoffman]

So happy to be back. I can't believe it.

[Elizabeth Keener]

On an amazing show and you're an

[John Hoffman]

amazing podcast, I have to say. Just let me get it out there.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Thank you.

[John Hoffman]

I'm a huge fan of what you did last year. And honestly, all of the writer producers on our show were just delighted. They were like, we don't know what we're doing, but we're having fun. I loved all of. First of all, I felt like I learned a lot more from them when I was something that I learned from myself. It was like, oh, they were terrific.

[Kevin Lan]

There is the evidence.

[Elizabeth Keener]

You're right for once. Kk He's a fan. To kick things off with John, we were curious how they decided where to pick up the story for season two.

[John Hoffman]

Get ready. You've only seen episodes one and two.

[Elizabeth Keener]

One and two. Only one and two.

[John Hoffman]

Well, hang tight.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Chills.

[John Hoffman]

I know. So the decision there as to where to start was what I thought long and hard about, actually. And I was very much intrigued, of course, by the ending of where we left them off. But where we would start in a way that felt both like the show we love and know and then flip it hard. You can be the talk of the town in New York can be one sided or the other side and it's infamous or famous. The good side and the bad side. And what happens when the good side and the bad side come together is what was really intriguing to me for our trio. And so immediately plopping them down on the hot seat where they've landed themselves at the end of season one to be quickly interrogated and sent out into the New York world that is now looking at them completely anew.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We don't have a question for this, but Michael Rapaport, oh my God, just.

[Kevin Lan]

That was hilarious.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Incredible. Incredible.

[John Hoffman]

I love him. He feels so authentically New York too. Right? He's just got an easy everything about him. Swing so perfectly into this part of Detective Kreps and then the match of him with Detective Williams and the way they played. That was an incredible day on set, I have to say, because, you know, we shot Steve, Marty and Selena, you know, individually and, and so Michael and Davine both had to play their stuff three times all the way through from many different angles. So I, I want to say Michael dropped about 4,000 F bombs that day.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I know his work.

[John Hoffman]

And found different colors and ways to say it.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

Each time, I swear, all dazzled by, by the two of them that day, particularly two of them together, Selena kept going. Jeez, that was fun. Loosened up. It was. We don't rarely, we rarely get away from script on set, honestly, but on that day, just let Michael riff a bit.

[Kevin Lan]

Speaking of the script, John co wrote episode one with Noah Levine.

[John Hoffman]

He was our script coordinator on the show and, you know, someone I had worked with on Grace and Frankie for a bit. And I just, I think it's very important to bring writers along and sort of, you know, help elevate them and move their careers along quickly. If you recognize real talent, he certainly has that.

[Kevin Lan]

Yeah. Here's Noah.

[Noah Levine]

I mean, I love John. John's like the easiest person in the world to work with. He's just like relentless positivity.

[Elizabeth Keener]

This season, the writers were still in a zoom room, but things were different in other ways because of the vaccine

[Noah Levine]

and everything, like we were. The writers were able to go on set thankfully for their episodes, which was really fun.

[Kevin Lan]

And so for the first episode, for this one that you wrote with John, there must have been a lot of setup to do. What was the process like for structuring that?

[Noah Levine]

There's so much that we owed and it was kind of figuring out how to frame the whole season with this theme of like being the talk of the town with them. You know, I don't think any of them thought that by starting this podcast, them being our heroes like, that they would end up being suspects themselves someday.

[John Hoffman]

There is a launch pad that is necessary for an episode one.

[Noah Levine]

Right.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Here's John Hoffman again.

[John Hoffman]

And then it's the approach on that episode and how do you best sort of, you know, tease as well as keep the surprises coming for both the characters and the audience? You know, our show is bizarre to write a half hour comedy which is also a mystery, because the mystery needs to be plotted out really the whole way through. So you don't really get to start the first episode until you figured out the whole damn thing. So it's very complicated. So everything that's in each episode is very specifically chosen as to how we're parsing out information and how we're twisting towards the ultimate resolve and so basically giving the audience and our own sort of sensibilities a springboard into a season built on this idea of how do you both. Both the thing about New York and infamous famous, and how do you navigate those two worlds happening all at once to you? That kind of particular New York famous.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Right.

[John Hoffman]

And then the other side of it, which is how do you podcast and help get yourself out from under this horrible dark cloud that you know is not true, but is being presented as such by your hero, your heroine, podcaster over here, as well as the cops who are looking into evidence, as well as someone who then you realize is actually framing you continually through this time. So it became a real mountain for them to sort of climb while being assaulted. So that all of that is a very disorienting experience for them. And they realize, I think the structure for the first episode is all of them realizing nobody's in this situation but us three. We're the only ones who can understand the situation we're in and relate to each other. And we're hanging on to each other if we're going to try and get out of it. And the only way out of it is to find the truth. And that's what we come to by the end of the episode when Mabel says, do you still have that boom mic?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Right?

[John Hoffman]

And they know that what they've got to do is the difficult thing that they've been told they can't do and they shouldn't do. But, you know, it's New York and people don't go quietly in New York, and that's where decides not to do.

[Uma Heller (character)]

We've been warned not to speak out or speak our truth. To just let others tell our story.

[Elizabeth Keener]

But we hear at only murders in the building, we will not be going quietly. Nailed it.

[Kevin Lan]

Here's Noah again.

[Noah Levine]

It's all about, like, putting yourself in the position to have scrutiny by making this podcast and now having the scrutiny of the law and having, you know, a big audience at the same time watching their moves. So the structure really came from that question of, like, what it means to be the talk of the town and how to resist. And can they resist continuing podcasting now that they're being told that's the last thing they should be doing?

[Kevin Lan]

And actually, in episode one, Charles and Oliver are ready to start season two of their podcast. But Mabel is the one who needs a little convincing.

[Noah Levine]

You know, Mabel, obviously, in season one, we saw that she's dealt with a lot of death in her past and in her friend group and all of that. And so her character is gonna be trying to really move on in a real way. And we'll see that. Steve, I think more than the other two, kind of can't resist the urge to podcast because that, like, in season one, we saw how much that, like, added, you know, like, warmth and purpose into his life. And Oliver is, like, all about, how can. How can I use this attention to get even more attention?

[Kevin Lan]

Focus all eyes on me. You are all persons of interest now.

[John Hoffman]

Thank you.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Each of our trio is seeing both the benefits and the drawbacks of their newfound fame. Oliver has an opportunity to sell season one of their podcast to Amy Schumer, but he keeps getting cut out of the spotlight.

[Uma Heller (character)]

Wow, look at this. Hold it a second. They cropped me out. This is such bullshit. You know, I'm also involved in this.

[Kevin Lan]

Mabel's got a troubling new nickname, but she's also being recognized as an artist for the first time.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Bloody Mabel.

[Kevin Lan]

Bloody Mabel.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Hello, Mabel.

[Alice Banks (character)]

This is Alice Banks from Third Art Gallery. We're a little artist collective downtown. Maybe you've heard of us. I know this is insane, given all you're going through. A stranger sending you a random video, a message. But I really love your mural and I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. Anyway, I know this is last minute, but the gallery are having an opening tomorrow, and we were wondering if you wanted to come. So, yeah, sending you lots of love and hope to have.

[Kevin Lan]

Bye.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And Charles has an opportunity for a Brazos reboot, except it's not quite what it used to be. We're picked up for series already. 18 episodes on series CBX.

[John Hoffman]

Whoa. Crazy, right?

[Kevin Lan]

With Naomi Jackson.

[Uma Heller (character)]

I love Her. Who's she playing?

[John Hoffman]

She's Brazos. She's.

[Uma Heller (character)]

And I would be Uncle Brazos.

[Kevin Lan]

The fame or infamy is pretty complicated for all three of them. And we'll dive deeper into that with John and Noah after the break.

[Elizabeth Keener]

For Mabel and her romance. People are going to be happy about that, that she's finding some happiness instead of death. Right. You know, instead of sadness. Can you elaborate a little bit on the potential relationship with Mabel and Alice?

[Noah Levine]

I don't know what I'm allowed to say.

[Kevin Lan]

Did we just accidentally stumble upon a clue there? Here's Noah trying to explain.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Ooh, I hope so.

[Noah Levine]

Yeah. No, I think we were all just like, how do we show a new side of Mabel? What would she want to try as far as moving on? And so when she gets this message on her Instagram, it's more about, how do I, you know, pursue this other interest than how do I pursue a new person? And so I think we were all trying to look at it from that angle.

[John Hoffman]

She's in this new situation, and she just wants to, you know, find a new part of herself. She wants to move on beyond it.

[Kevin Lan]

Here's John Hoffman again.

[John Hoffman]

She says, you know, I've had enough. I need to get away from death.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

And she's a young woman with talent and has never had the access points that allowed her to get into worlds that she's dreamed about. And for this bizarre circumstance to put her sort of square in the center of a social media storm in a small way in New York, with our own hashtag that's unflattering, but then draws.

[Kevin Lan]

Bloody Mabel.

[John Hoffman]

Bloody Mabel. Bloody Mabel. All right, if I'm going to be that. Meanwhile, then comes this outreach from a dream place, from an artist collective the likes of which she would love to have joined years ago if there was ever a possible way to get an invite into something like that. I think in Mabel's eyes, she's swayed to go to that gallery that night after that outreach from Alice because of something's connected. The show is about connection as well. Her art has finally connected out of nowhere, and it's literally on the wall in her living room. And it meant a lot last season to her. So I think that's the part that I'm not sure she would have gone, even with the flattery toward Alice, had it not been connected to. I've gotten some affirmation for something I care about out of nowhere, and I. To say no to that in this moment feels wrong, but, you know, it's a Scary time to go out of my house, but I'm gonna swing that way.

[Kevin Lan]

And hopefully she didn't join a cult.

[John Hoffman]

That's the best.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Just to make sure, you know, KK Alice, that it wasn't a cult.

[Kevin Lan]

That's true. But we hope it's not a cult because it's a really good opportunity for Mabel to finally find some happiness.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, don't we all want to find that?

[John Hoffman]

It's this dual thing that happens where the worst thing that's happened has actually given me access to something that. And that's a theme for all of them, but Mabel particularly, I think it's also interesting. You know, the whole show has always been sort of built around classic meets modern. And so, you know, I think, you know, in the modern way of, you know, romance and every romantic stories and opening up, you know, people's worlds, the way this story has started to do for all of our characters in season one and now further in season two, looking at, you know, the possibilities for themselves. And New York has a way of opening people up and allowing them to sort of explore parts of themselves that they may be surprised by, which I love.

[Kevin Lan]

Murder can open a door.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Murder can open a door.

[Kevin Lan]

And murder has opened a big door for Charles, who has finally landed an acting job after years of being forgotten.

[Elizabeth Keener]

The writers seem to have had a lot of fun being mean to Charles. Here's Noah.

[Noah Levine]

There's that joke that the producers had him listed as N a dead.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I know.

[Noah Levine]

So it's like. It's like he's literally, you know, success of the podcast and now being potentially a murder suspect has literally brought him and his career back from the dead.

[Kevin Lan]

But the producers are also worried he might go to prison, so they keep making his part smaller.

[Elizabeth Keener]

The success of the podcast and their own messy involvement isn't just complicating their careers. It's also gained the attention of their hero, podcaster Cinda Canning.

[Kevin Lan]

I guess she's not really their hero anymore.

[Elizabeth Keener]

True. In my new podcast, Only Murderers in the Building, we'll probe into the Arconia and three residents who remain prime suspects in the grisly stabbing death of Bunny Folger.

[Noah Levine]

It's funny because she is in some ways a reason that they, you know, that the word got out that they were doing this podcast in the first place, when in season one, she's on Jimmy Fallon and making fun of them. And then, lo and behold, obviously, she drove traffic to their podcast. So I think she's a little butt hurt that now, you know, they have this successful Podcast, and she obviously needs a new hit herself.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Our trio's podcast is such a hit, actually, that the new resident celebrity in the building is even a fan.

[Uma Heller (character)]

Oh, well, hello there, Amy Schumer.

[Kevin Lan]

Well, hello.

[John Hoffman]

I mean, Amy Schumer is so fantastic, and I'll have to say was our fastest.

[Noah Levine]

Yes.

[John Hoffman]

She likes the show. She knows and has worked with and loves Steve Martin and just came right to us with this. But we said, here's what we're doing. Some people are very reticent, I think, to represent themselves.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

In a show, and you know how to do that. And it happened all very quickly with Amy, actually, and she and I spent some time over a weekend working on some of the stuff within her scenes and making them her own, because in this case, it's not a thing I tended to do, but in this case, it's her voice and what kind of colors she wants to do within the context of playing herself. So in that case, we just loved the, you know, sort of the running wonder of, you know, who's in the penthouse now as a thing for our show going forward.

[Elizabeth Keener]

That's amazing.

[John Hoffman]

We kind of want to have, like, the possibilities of a rotating thing that, like, you know, oh, Amy's going to be dissatisfied in that apartment potentially very soon. So who's coming next? Not to tease, but that's.

[Kevin Lan]

Oh,

[John Hoffman]

the thing about what I knew we wanted for that character for the piece was to reflect immediately for the audience. Oh, their podcast is out in the world, and people know about it.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, yeah.

[John Hoffman]

And the ones that are in the building know about it. So now you have a fan coming to you about your podcast, and our show is very meta, and you know, just to be able to say things like, well, second seasons are tough, and letting our neuroses about that come out a little bit here and there, maybe a little too much, but it was still fun to play with.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It's so perfect. It's all so perfect. Oh, my God.

[John Hoffman]

It made sense. I mean, you know, they're sloppy about the way they put their podcast together, but here they are getting praise, and someone very shrewd is saying, you know, what are you gonna do with that thing? Because I'm kind of into it, and. And that felt really right for Amy.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Hey, do you think that's the whole reason she moved into the Arconia?

[Kevin Lan]

Oh, good question.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Hilarious. Amy Schumer was a surprise, but you know who else was a delight? Ckk.

[Kevin Lan]

Who is that?

[Elizabeth Keener]

The incredible Shirley MacLaine.

[Kevin Lan]

Who could drink more cocotinis? You or Shirley Maclaine?

[John Hoffman]

Okay, that's a very knowledgeable question. And maybe someone tipped you off to that question.

[Kevin Lan]

Oh, no.

[John Hoffman]

In the weirdest of situations and worlds, I found myself getting to know Shirley MacLaine many, many years ago now. And we've become delightful friends.

[Kevin Lan]

I adore her over cocotinis.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes.

[John Hoffman]

Literally. A cocotini is what we drink every time we get together.

[Kevin Lan]

Oh, no way.

[John Hoffman]

No kidding. So that cocatini comes from many brunches and dinners with Shirley MacLaine herself.

[Kevin Lan]

Oh, that's hilarious.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Who introduced the cocatini to whom? Like, who was. Did she.

[Noah Levine]

She to you?

[John Hoffman]

Well, Shirley introduced me to cocatini.

[Kevin Lan]

Yes.

[John Hoffman]

And I was very much like Howard in episode two. Sort of like, oh, assuming it's a chocolate martini.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes, that's what I would have thought

[John Hoffman]

because I'm not a big fan of coconut in general. But a Cocatini.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah, it's delicious.

[Kevin Lan]

So it's worth trying the McLean Cocatini.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It's the McLean. We need to put that in our little McLean Cocatini ingredients.

[Kevin Lan]

The official cocktail of Holy merchant listeners. You can go and taste a Shirley MacLaine approved cocotini at Joffrey's in Malibu.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We also have a recipe for one you can make at home in the show notes.

[John Hoffman]

When we were working on the script and we sent Kristen Newman's script right for episode two, and we sent the script off to Shirley for her consideration. It was very, you know, pragmatic. I was just like, slip that cocatini in there for.

[Kevin Lan]

Oh, yeah, see if she's reading it.

[Elizabeth Keener]

She's like, see if she's out actually reading it.

[Kevin Lan]

Exactly.

[John Hoffman]

But Shirley called me after reading it and she said, oh, you clever thing. Of course I'm doing this. And I'm.

[Noah Levine]

I, I.

[John Hoffman]

The cocatini was the reason why.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Put me over the edge. Yeah, I love it.

[Noah Levine]

Yes. Meeting Shirley Maclaine on set and just being around her was one of the most insane and special and hilarious things.

[Kevin Lan]

Here's Noah.

[Noah Levine]

But the scene where she was cutting

[Elizabeth Keener]

the cheese, I mean, we were just

[Noah Levine]

dying, like, over and over again.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. And it's Shirley MacLaine's voice as Leonora Folger that introduces us to the secret in the architecture of the Arconia. Here's John Hoffman again.

[John Hoffman]

It's the cliche of all time to say, you know, oh, the building is a character in the story just as much as the other real characters. But in some way, I genuinely wanted it to be. And I think it was due in large part to the success of the work of our production designer last year, Kurt Beech, and our production designer this year, Patrick Howe, and all of his. Their teams creating these mise en scene that is very alive and vivid and specific for all of our characters to live in. And creating the world of the arconia married to the extraordinary exterior that we were able to shoot at the Bellord in Manhattan and have this very evocative building. And then let the building and its history inform. As long as the stories are informing our characters either backstories, their central, you know, crises, or their central conflicts and things they're trying to discover and work through across any of the stories we're telling. So in this case, I like to know the history of our characters in relation to the story. And the two people we're discussing in episode two are Charles and Bunny and their specific relationships to the building. And through that lens, it felt really intriguing to me to sort of really go down the biographies and explore what could have been the relationships to why is Charles in this building? And when we see the past he had with his father, looking up at that building, wishing for that and to sort of correct that loss in some way or to maybe prove his father. Prove that he was a little better than his father, to rise above in some way is maybe why he chose this building to live in, or just a simple, romantic New York dream. And then Bunny learning that Bunny had lived every day of her life in this building and had family that built this and then built in things that she knew about and manipulated for her own reasons, but also kept probably good watch over some of the secrets of the building. And now that she's gone, all bets are off.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. Which is why she probably became the board president. Even though no one liked her. She was board president. And then there's. Now there's another board president who. People no one likes.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah. Get ready for her.

[Kevin Lan]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

I mean, Christine co came in and just felt like, fantastic. What do you see? It's really.

[Kevin Lan]

Okay, great.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah, I love it.

[Kevin Lan]

That scene where we meet Nina Lind for the first time, that's Bunny's memorial. And similar to Tim Kono's memorial in season one, it puts almost all of our characters in the same place at the same time.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, it's such a great scene. And we'll talk more about that after the break with the help of one of Bunny's only friends, Uma Heller.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Oh, goody. The murderers are here. What the hell are you doing?

[Uma Heller (character)]

We brought dip.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Uma, be nice.

[Kevin Lan]

I invited them. We came to pay our respects.

[Jackie Hoffman]

With a screw top. What happened? You couldn't find a box?

[John Hoffman]

Ursula, Uma, Howard. Now we've got Nina going on there that. They've all got agendas.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Here's John Hoffman again.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah, they've all got agendas that are very specific. And you're right. It's. Whenever you have these group scenes, I find them remarkable because, you know, we're so lucky to have this brilliant cast of unbelievable character actors from New York, you know, and they have great resumes and lives they've spent both on. In front of the camera and on the stage.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

And that feels. What I've loved the most is you get incredibly inventive and specific actors who are also, you know, just innately interesting in. They're not the typical people you might see on a TV show in your daily. You know, they feel very deeply New York.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And you know who is very deeply New York? My.

[Jackie Hoffman]

My character. Yeah, Uma, is. Is you.

[Kevin Lan]

Yuma, this is Jackie Hoffman. She plays Uma Heller, the Arconia resident who's always flipping the bird.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Wasn't there like the 510 to Yuma? I was just trying to think of that before.

[Elizabeth Keener]

3:10. 3:10. Yuma, you were. You were a little late. Yeah.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Central. Central time.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I don't know about you, but when I imagine a typical new. I see Jackie Hoffman.

[Kevin Lan]

Yes. Uma Heller is the quintessential New York character.

[Jackie Hoffman]

And I think New York made me what I am and made Numa what. What she is. Really. I mean, it's funny. If I'm filming now. I've been filming now in. In Vancouver in Canada, and it's just like, you know, if I'm just an alien being, you know, the. The people just don't get, you know, the directness and the. And I'm very. I think I was like. And then that's the excuse, you know, for my appalling behavior. She. She'.

[Kevin Lan]

Uma is one of the many Arconia residents that makes an appearance at Bunny's memorial. And it's always so fun to have all these great characters together in one place.

[Jackie Hoffman]

It's everybody, you know, and everybody.

[Kevin Lan]

The.

[Elizabeth Keener]

The.

[Jackie Hoffman]

I mean, not just. Not just the big names, but, you know, everybody in the building too. Brought it on every take. And they were all. I was just amazed at how, like, you know, like no one would let it collapse or you. Everyone's like, you know, this is my 4 second moment. I'm not gonna let this get away from me. They did.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah.

[Jackie Hoffman]

And. And then, you know, just culminating with Shirley McLean, who, you know who? Like, I'm. Look, I'm like, she's like, off the rails. But then you look at the work she does, and I'm like, oh, my God. Like, you buy everything. Like, I just watched the episode. She's amazing.

[Kevin Lan]

Amazing.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Surely by clay.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, forget about who. Oh, my God.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Piece of work.

[Kevin Lan]

Let me just say it seems like Uma really hates Charles, Oliver, and Mabel. Why does she dislike them so much?

[Jackie Hoffman]

That's, like, a really good question. She does seem to seethe with hatred around them. I. I almost feel like if I was the type of person who would develop a character history, I almost feel like there's had to be something in her past. Like she auditioned for. For, you know, for Oliver and he rejected her. Or, you know, she. She met Brazos in the street and asked for an autograph and he dissed her. Like, you know. And Selena, you have to hate on principle because she's young and pretty and. And she got everything going for her.

[Kevin Lan]

Maybe for an extra on Brazos, I think.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah.

[Noah Levine]

Or.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Or couldn't even get the extra. Like, that's the thing. That's so funny. You. You hate them so much, and then they'll never know why. Because it's not worth it to tell

[Kevin Lan]

them everything's dripping with acid.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Yes, it is.

[Kevin Lan]

Here's a fun fact. Keener.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Riveted.

[Kevin Lan]

Jackie Hoffman originally auditioned for the role of Ursula.

[Jackie Hoffman]

10 cases of gut milk, Right? I actually auditioned with that. And the scene was by a file cabinet. And I actually have a file cabinet in my home. And I auditioned with a real file cabinet. I'm like, I got this. It's a real file cabinet.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It's mine.

[Kevin Lan]

Your method.

[John Hoffman]

Yes.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Then I did not get it. But then they offered me Uma Heller, which I saw was a classic Jackie Hoffman role because it barely exists.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Well, that may have been true for last season, but it feels like we're getting to know Uma a bit more this season. We're getting to know her, especially through her relationship with Howard Morris, played by Michael Cyril Creighton.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Oh, well, I adore Michael. I mean, we. We. I. Michael, you did a web series way back when the kids were doing what they called a web series.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yep.

[Jackie Hoffman]

I remember it was called Jack in the Box because he actually, in real life, worked in a box office. So he played a character called Jack, and it was Jack in a Box. And I played a very Uma like woman. Like a classic matinee lady. I need two tickets. But, you know, God, that was so. So we've known each other Forever more. Just delighted with each other. I adore him. So that was a hoot. And I love how these two characters are coming together. You can't, you know, if you could still say the words fag hag, you know, you kids don't know that that was not meant to be, you know, that that was her. You know, she's. She's his, his, his. He's my gay friend.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah. I think that. I think that's in their lgbtfh. Isn't it? Like, isn't that in there? I think he's. But I love them together, so I, I hope we get to see more and more. And what I love is that your characters are similar, but he's more, you know, he says it in a quiet way, but he's very, you know, like passive aggressive. And you're just aggressive aggressive, which is lovely.

[John Hoffman]

The two.

[Kevin Lan]

It's just so someone's a tad more bossy.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Volume is power.

[Kevin Lan]

And we also got to know her and Uma during our interview.

[Elizabeth Keener]

She's quick with the one liners in real life and on set. I love that.

[Jackie Hoffman]

I didn't originate the joke, but I did throw in after the screw top wine. What's the matter? You couldn't get a box?

[Kevin Lan]

So.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Yeah, so that. Yeah, no, they, they. They count on me to. You know, it either gets people really angry at me and gets me in trouble or people count on me to do it. Bunny had a real eye for erotic art. A lot of people didn't know that.

[Uma Heller (character)]

I think it's Uma.

[John Hoffman]

I'm not surprised.

[Kevin Lan]

Bunny was a fucking freak.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Aunt Howard, this Rose Cooper painting that she has, it's very porny. A naked man wrapped around a woman's leg. Very balls forward.

[Kevin Lan]

Maybe I'll own one someday.

[John Hoffman]

Very balls forward.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Very balls. For completely. Literally, Literally, literally. Did anyone sit for it?

[John Hoffman]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, clearly it is.

[Elizabeth Keener]

We know.

[Noah Levine]

Yes.

[John Hoffman]

Wait, who's the.

[Elizabeth Keener]

But who's the woman? Do we know who that is? Oh, we don't know yet.

[John Hoffman]

There have been assumptions made about who that woman is.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

And they may bear out to be true. And you never know. Our show might surprise you.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Amazing.

[John Hoffman]

And we went through many versions, truthfully, of the. That central painting for season two with. With, you know, the balls forward. But, you know, we wanted it to feel of something legitimate and, and the history around Rose Cooper the artist and what we learn about Rose Cooper the artist, and that carries forward as we go forward, too. That's a central part of our mystery that does come back around in many ways. With some discoveries up ahead.

[Elizabeth Keener]

One discovery we make by the end of episode two is that the painting is not the original.

[Kevin Lan]

That's right. When they all go up to Amy

[John Hoffman]

Schumer's penthouse, that was one of the most memorable days of our show. And we've had many to be on a set that day. And you could feel it amongst all of them when you've got Amy Schumer, Steve Martin, Martin short, Selena Gomez and Shirley MacLaine. Unbelievable scene together. It was Sparky.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

That's all I will say about that. It was delightful.

[Elizabeth Keener]

And you know what, kk? It's deliciously delightful to be back. And yes, I use the double D. Back at the Arconia, back at the mic, back with our fans, our listeners.

[Kevin Lan]

It's good to be back with season two. After all the love that season one

[Jackie Hoffman]

got, people came back there with, like, humbled and. And amazed.

[Kevin Lan]

But.

[Jackie Hoffman]

But I was at the Screen Actors Guild Awards, and we were still all seething with quiet bitterness when we didn't win.

[Kevin Lan]

But no one was murdered.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Let's murder Ted Lasso.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Ted Lasso. Whatever.

[Kevin Lan]

Yeah, you guys would be the biggest suspects

[Jackie Hoffman]

in the library. With a lasso.

[Kevin Lan]

With a SAG award.

[Elizabeth Keener]

But.

[Kevin Lan]

Before we get into our guesses on who killed Bunny, we did get a clue from Noah.

[Noah Levine]

The only clue I will give you is that this year we really had our fun with the anagrams.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Oh, thank you. And by the way, I just want to say, Noah, in the. In the, like, first couple episodes, there are so many clues in red herrings, whatever they are.

[Noah Levine]

We did a lot of planting. We were. We were farmers.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yeah, you were farm. You hoed and hoed, and it was fantastic.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Hey, K.K.

[Elizabeth Keener]

you know what an anagram is, right?

[Kevin Lan]

Of course. But why don't you tell me?

[Elizabeth Keener]

Well, you know, you change the letters around, so I'm just gonna say, last season, I did this in the very first episode. And I'm going to say something. Ready, Mabel? Change it around. Blame for those of you. Yeah, thank you very much. Oh, you're giving me something. Okay, moving on. That's all I have to say. Okay, KK you know what time it is, right?

[Kevin Lan]

Oh, it's my favorite time.

[Elizabeth Keener]

It's time for the whodunit summit.

[Kevin Lan]

And this is where Keener and I, based on the first episodes we've seen, episodes one and two, guess who we think the murderer is. Write it down on a piece of paper. Put it in a sealed envelope.

[John Hoffman]

Envelope.

[Kevin Lan]

And open it for the first time right now.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I love that you have all those visuals when they just are going to hear a rip, so it's awesome. Okay, would you like to go first? I'd like for you to go first, K.K.

[Kevin Lan]

all right, here's my envelope.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Blame. Oh, Cinda Canning.

[Kevin Lan]

Yes.

[Jackie Hoffman]

Wow.

[Kevin Lan]

The podcast producer played by Tina Fey.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay, KK Amazing. Now tell me why. You want to tell me why? Cinda Canning.

[Kevin Lan]

I am going to tell you why I picked Cinda Canning. I think she's jealous of our trio stealing the spotlight from her. I think she's very petty because she named her podcast Only Murderers in the

[Elizabeth Keener]

Building, or she's just a thief.

[Kevin Lan]

And if you notice, when Bunny was found dead, she's wearing a tie dye hoodie. But it's the merchandise from the fans show of Only Murders in the building, so I think that was kind of sticking it to them.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Cake?

[Kevin Lan]

Yeah. And this might be more minor, but I feel like she also didn't want to travel for a podcast, so she wanted to stay local. And furthermore, if it wasn't Cinda, I think it was Poppy, her assistant, because Cinda's always mean to her, and she's framing her.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay, are you ready for mine? You're kind of gonna flip for mine. Are you ready? Here's mine.

[Kevin Lan]

I'm ready.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Okay, you can rip it. Here we go.

[Kevin Lan]

And Keener thinks the murderer is Poppy, Cinda Canning's assistant.

[Elizabeth Keener]

I can't believe that you said that. Now you don't get two. You only get one. And what's funny is that you. Okay, here's my take on it.

[Kevin Lan]

Yeah. Wait, why did you pick Poppy?

[Elizabeth Keener]

So mine is similar to yours, but her world is smaller, so it's really everything that you said. But towards Cinda Canning, she wants. Wants to. She wants to be famous. She wants to get some accolades from Cinda, who's always so mean to her. She loves the one that looks identical to her. You know, Cinda Cannon. She's like, oh, but to her. But she's cruel. She's so cruel. And she has some great ideas, but she burns her every time. So, my.

[Kevin Lan]

She's very dismissive to Poppy.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Yes. And the way you. You know what? I didn't even think about the merchandise thing. But she probably has to deal with all that and everything because she. She is maybe the lowly second or third assistant or whatever you want to call her. You know what I'm saying? Although, hey, I've been an assistant, so nothing lowly about that. So anyway, that. I can't believe you said that. Now you said that second. You you can't count, Poppy. You only said, yes, I can. No, you said if it wasn't it, you could do that. Next time I win this one.

[Kevin Lan]

Thanks for listening to Season two, Episode one of Only Murders in the Pod. Our inbox is open again, so please send over your thoughts and theories to only [e-mail] if you're enjoying the show, please please leave us a rating and review. It really helps people, future fans, find the show.

[Elizabeth Keener]

Only Murders in the Pod is a production of Straw Hut Media, hosted by Elizabeth Keener, me and Kevin Lan, produced by Ryan Tillotson and Maggie Bowles. Associate producer is Stephen Markley, original music by Kyle Merritt and Only Murders theme music by Siddhartha Khosla, and a big, big thanks to John Hoffman, Xavier Salas, Luisa Moltini and the entire Hulu team.