S3 E10: Opening Night (Part 1)

Summary

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Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

S3 E10: Opening Night (Part 1)

October 4, 2023 — Hosted by Maggie Bowles & Ryan Tillotson (Straw Hut Media), featuring Ben Smith (writer), Jamie Babbitt (director), and John Hoffman (co-creator/showrunner/writer)

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Episode Overview

The season finale podcast for Only Murders in the Building Season 3, “Opening Night,” delivers a behind-the-scenes look at the show’s climactic moments and creative choices. Hosts recap the big reveals, discuss the thematic focus on parent-child relationships, and speak with writer Ben Smith, director Jamie Babbitt, and showrunner John Hoffman about developing the murder mystery, musical numbers, and character arcs. Memorable moments, favorite scenes, and on-set stories fill this episode, revealing how the magic of the Arconia comes to life.

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Episode Recap & Key Plot Points

(Timestamps 01:07–03:59)

• The podcast opens with a recap of the finale’s dramatic events:
  • Donna’s backstory as a workaholic mother is revealed via voice-over.
    (01:23)
  • Loretta is out of jail, with the bloody handkerchief now in the hands of the trio.
    (01:36–01:50)
  • The trio confronts Donna, who almost too easily confesses to poisoning Ben Glenroy—but insists the show must go on before she turns herself in.
    (01:58–02:12)
  • Jonathan can’t perform due to medication, forcing Oliver on stage for opening night.
  • Tobert confesses his feelings to Mabel. Loretta admits to Dickie that she’s his mother—he says, “I always knew.”
    (02:30–02:43)
  • Mabel discovers it was actually Cliff, not Donna, who pushed Ben down the elevator shaft—an act of emotional impulse when Ben confronts him about Donna’s poisoning.
    (02:43–03:18)
  • In a tense sequence, Cliff contemplates jumping from the trapdoor but is saved by Donna. Both are arrested after the show: the mystery is solved.
  • At the after-party, Loretta prepares to move to LA; Oliver considers joining her. Mabel decides to stay in NYC.
  • The dramatic next murder is set up: Saz is killed by a mysterious gunshot through the window.
    (03:44–03:59)

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The Writers' Room & The WGA Strike

(04:13–07:12)

• Ben Smith discusses the challenges and emotions of the recent Writers Guild Strike and the outcome:

  “It's very scary to proactively stop working. But it was something that we felt we had to do because the studios gave us no option.”
  — Ben Smith (04:44)

  • Smith reflects on solidarity among writers, pride in the final deal, and gratitude for preserving the writing profession’s future.

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Building the Season—From Finale to Mystery

(07:12–11:51)

• Smith reveals the season’s plot twists were devised week-by-week, not fully outlined from the end of Season 2:

  “We did not know that we were going to have him come back to life and then die a second time... That was a very exciting discovery.”
  — Ben Smith (07:44)

  • They reverse-engineered elements: scrutinizing Ben Glenroy’s appearance and backstory to build the play’s (Deathrattle Dazzle’s) world.
  • The writers fleshed out supporting characters, landing on Cliff as the eventual killer after considering various motives and connections.
  • Musical elements “were teased early,” but collaboration with Pasek and Paul and creative brainstorming really brought them to life.
    (09:21–10:56)
  • The music’s Broadway authenticity came from direct partnership with real composers, while writers focused on how to integrate songs with on-screen action.

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Orchestrating the Finale’s Numbers & Editing

(11:06–12:37)

• By the scripting stage, the lyrics for musical numbers were in place, but the episode’s structure—the interplay between song, montage, and plot—remained fluid:

  “A lot of credit goes to the editors... Shelly and Peyton did an incredible job...reordering it to make it its best form.”
  — Ben Smith (11:54)

  • Finale numbers, like “For the Sake of the Child,” had to simultaneously reveal the murderer, advance action, and provide spectacle.

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Themes: Motherhood & Motive

(13:13–15:18)

• The murder’s emotional “spin” stands apart from previous seasons—this time, the motive is protection, not premeditation or revenge.

  “There’s no premeditation with Cliff... he’s impulsively standing up for his mom. And he’s wounded. He’s been called boy. He just... snaps...”
  — Ben Smith (13:13)

  • Donna’s guilt, too, is portrayed as the desperate act of a mother—she claims not to have intended murder, but to protect her son and their show.
  • Intergenerational protection—mothers for sons, and vice versa—ties the mysteries together.
  • Mabel’s realization about the mother-son theme ultimately cracks the case.

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Writing for the Legends: Meryl Streep and Character Arcs

(15:21–16:44)

• Smith shares the intimidation and delight of writing for Meryl Streep:

  “Oh my god, we have to write something worthy of her... But you also can't get too wrapped up in trying to psych yourself out and override anything.”
  — Ben Smith (15:38)

  • The challenge of providing substantial roles for all five leads (the core trio plus Meryl Streep and Paul Rudd) was balanced by trust in the actors’ abilities.

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Final Drafts, Lost Scenes & Filming Out of Order

(17:31–20:13)

• The finale script was drastically trimmed to fit the episode length:

  “When John and I wrote our first draft... it was like 50 pages, and then we spent a day... then a week trying to get it down to 35 or something like that.”
  — Ben Smith (17:31)

  • Fun scenes with the trio at a bail bondsman were cut for pacing.
  • Scenes with Paul Rudd were filmed before the rest of the script was complete due to scheduling conflicts with Ghostbusters.
  • This created logistical and narrative challenges, requiring later rewrites to ensure cohesion.

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The Resonance of “Phony” and “Boy”

(20:14–22:29)

• Little character details—like Cliff’s anger at being called “boy” and Ben being called a “phony”—were throwaway moments that became crucial in the finale’s emotional climax:

  “When you get to 10, you’re like, oh, what do we have? You kind of search the previous episodes... it actually is hitting at something much deeper…”
  — Ben Smith (20:49)

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Favorite Scenes, Improvisation, and On-Set Moments

(22:52–23:31), (24:07–26:57), (27:28–27:52)

• Smith loved Donna’s confession interrogation scene—watching the trio’s self-awareness (“God, we never get a confession that easily... I hope that was recorded!”).
• Meryl Streep’s performance, especially her dynamic with Dickie and Oliver, and the “nanny lullaby” scene resonated deeply.
• Giving Martin Short a musical number was always a “wish list” item for the writers:

  “We have Marty Short...let’s give him a time to be on stage. Like, why wouldn’t you?”
  — Ben Smith (26:57)

• Improvisational beats (the card scene, Steve Martin’s “Scott Bakula says hi” text) brought extra charm.

  “That was my favorite improv.”
  — Jamie Babbitt (31:13)

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Director’s Chair: Jamie Babbitt’s Perspective

(27:52–34:09)

• Babbitt relishes returning to the theater for the finale, seeing the show expand its “theatrical” premise.

  “What a thrill as the director to be able to kill one of my favorite characters from the first season and have the promise of her for the whole next season.”
  — Jamie Babbitt (28:13)

• On musical numbers: Professional choreographers taught Broadway dancers for weeks; the stars received simpler choreography on the day. The lighthouse stairs’ choreography was filmed earlier by John Hoffman due to cast scheduling.
• Remarkable moments: Meryl Streep cuddling the baby doll in between takes; Martin Short’s surprise showcase as a singer; the entire ensemble’s musical prowess.

  “Steve has, like, perfect pitch. Marty's a great singer. Selena's literally a pop star.”
  — Jamie Babbitt (33:53)

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Staging, VFX, and Emotional Beats

(34:09–39:12)

• Visual effects helped age or de-age characters subtly in flashbacks (e.g., Donna).
• The “Cliff pushes Ben” scene was pre-filmed by John Hoffman, then integrated into the rest of the finale for narrative pacing.

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Showrunner’s Vision: John Hoffman

(39:59–49:53)

• No pushback on “musicalizing” the mystery; the ridiculousness was always intended to be heart-filled and in the show’s DNA.

  “If there’s the Heart, you can pull off ridiculous premises and make a musical of it and people will be drawn to it in some ways.”
  — John Hoffman (40:49)

• John laments never finding an organic way for Mabel (Selena Gomez) to get her own musical number (“unless she’s in a dream sequence”).

  “The only thing that bums me out... is how the hell can we get a Selena Gomez number?”
  — John Hoffman (42:47)

• The theme of parental protection runs through the season, mirrored in Loretta’s and Donna’s stories, culminating in the dual mysteries’ resolution.
• On Mabel and Tobert: The writers purposely left ambiguity about Tobert’s intentions, reflecting fans’ desire to be protective of Mabel.
• The recurring “LA” plot is left unresolved, hinting at future possibilities.

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The Joy & Legacy of Meryl Streep

(48:20–49:53)

• Wrapping the season with Meryl Streep was a highlight for the entire cast and crew.

  “Our literal lighthouse this season has been Meryl Streep and the joy she brought... she just had one of the best times ever.”
  — John Hoffman (49:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[The strike] was something that we felt we had to do because we felt as though the studios gave us no option.”
  — Ben Smith (04:44)

• “We did not know that we were going to have [Ben] come back to life and then die a second time. That was a very exciting discovery.”
  — Ben Smith (07:44)

• “There’s no premeditation with Cliff...he just kind of impulsively standing up for his mom. And he’s wounded. He’s been called boy.”
  — Ben Smith (13:13)

• “Oh my god, we have to write something worthy of [Meryl Streep].”
  — Ben Smith (15:38)

• “[Martin Short] is a great singer... Why wouldn’t you [give him a number]?”
  — Jamie Babbitt (33:41)

• “Our literal lighthouse this season has been Meryl Streep and the joy she brought.”
  — John Hoffman (49:36)

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Standout Segments

• WGA Strike Reflection: Ben Smith’s reflection on the strike (04:44–07:12)
• Unpacking the Mystery Creation: How the plot was discovered as the writers went along (07:12–09:13)
• Music Integration: Collaboration with musical professionals and choreography (09:21–12:37, 34:09–35:42)
• “Boy” and “Phony” Return: A callback detail that retroactively enriched the major murder reveal (20:14–22:29)
• Directing with Legends: Jamie Babbitt on working with Jane Lynch, Meryl Streep, Martin Short, and the rest of the cast (27:52–34:09)

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Episode Timestamps at a Glance

• 01:07–03:59: Finale episode recap, plot summary
• 04:13–07:12: Ben Smith on the WGA strike
• 07:12–11:51: Writing the season’s murder and musical elements
• 11:51–15:18: Breaking down the mother-son theme, murder motives
• 15:21–16:44: Writing for Meryl Streep and main cast arcs
• 17:31–20:13: Finale scripting challenges, cutting room insights
• 20:14–22:29: The resonance of earlier character moments
• 22:52–23:31: Favorite interrogation & physical comedy
• 24:07–26:57: Giving Martin Short his musical moment
• 27:52–34:09: Jamie Babbitt on directing and musical numbers
• 34:09–39:12: Choreography, visual effects, and Dickie-Loretta reveal
• 39:59–49:53: John Hoffman on the season’s creative vision and character arcs

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This episode is a must-listen for any fan wanting to understand the intricate craft, playful spirit, and emotional foundation underpinning Season 3’s grand finale—and the ongoing legacy of Only Murders in the Building.

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Transcript

[Maggie Bowles]

Straw Hut Media. Oh, look at the cat.

[Ben Smith]

I know. It's like clockwork. If I start talking to someone or have a meeting, the cat shows up.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, I love that. I'm here for it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's what our cats do.

[Ben Smith]

There may be a background meow or two during this.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Hello, and welcome to Only Murders in the Pod. I'm Ryan Tillotson.

[Maggie Bowles]

And I'm Maggie Bowles. And this season has been a little different because we haven't been talking to the ranch are the actors except Ryan.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Today's different.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's right. Today on the show, we're speaking with Ben Smith, who co wrote episode 10 with John Hoffman. We'll also talk with the director of episode 10, Jamie Babbitt. And of course, we'll talk with John Hoffman, co creator, showrunner, co writer of the episode Northstar, Guiding Light, All Around Mensch.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We'll talk about discovering who really killed Ben Glenroy and how opening night of Deathrattle Dazzle and improvising on set. Just so you know, we will talk about music, just not much today. That will be on Friday and you won't want to miss it.

[Maggie Bowles]

But first, before we get into it, a quick recap. Episode 10, opening night.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We start with Donna's voiceover and we learn her backstory. She's a workaholic. She's even working all the way through giving birth to Cliff. Ma', am, we're gonna need you to push now.

[Donna (Character)]

I gotta go. Just get it done.

[Maggie Bowles]

Loretta's out of jail and she tells the trio about when she saw Donna throwing up in the bathroom that one time. And she knows she's dying or sick. Loretta also has the bloody hanky that Dickie had bought off of Uma, which he then gives to the trio.

[Ryan Tillotson]

The trio confronts Donna in KT's office by luring her with the new review. And she admits to killing Ben.

[Ben Smith]

What?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Maybe a little too easily.

[Donna (Character)]

You think I poisoned Ben, Right? That's what this is about. Great. Let's jump ahead. I did it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But she has to wait to call the police until after the curtain falls on opening night so it doesn't ruin her son's first show.

[Maggie Bowles]

Jonathan, our leading man, took too many anxiety meds and he can't go on, so Oliver Putnam steps in. The show opens with Creatures of the Night Breeding Crabmen dance when you're a

[Cliff (Character)]

creature of the night all alone.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Tobert admits that he really likes Mabel and invites her to LA with him.

[Maggie Bowles]

And after Loretta sings the nanny lullaby, she confesses to Dickie that she's his Mother. He says he always knew. And they hug. It's beautiful. Mabel sees it and it makes her think thoughts.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Mabel also sees Cliff looking upset and finds him in Jerry's lair. He confesses that it was actually him that pushed Ben down the elevator shaft and not Donna. Ben had figured out that he had been poisoned and that Donna had done it. Ben and Cliff fought and it was a heat of the moment push.

[Cliff (Character)]

Hope you like kissing Mommy between prison bars.

[Ben Smith]

Actually, you might, boy.

[Maggie Bowles]

Cliff opens the trapdoor in the floor of Jerry's lair and dangles there. Maybe he's thinking of jumping. But Donna comes in and helps pull him up. And after curtains, Cliff and Donna are arrested. The murder is solved.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Later that night, at Oliver's apartment for the opening night party, they read the review and it's a hit. Loretta's career has taken her to la. Oliver talks about joining her. Mabel decides not to follow Taber to la, but says she'd visit.

[Maggie Bowles]

And Saz arrives at the party and we're thinking Charles has headed upstairs to get more wine. A shot pierces the window and strikes the chest of. It was Saz getting the wine, not Charles. And she's dead.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We have our next murder in the building.

[Maggie Bowles]

Welcome back. Since the last episode of the podcast, the WGA strike has ended. So exciting. And so we got to talk to our first writer of the season, Ben Smith.

[Ryan Tillotson]

He co wrote episode 10 with John Hoffman, and he also co wrote episode two with Joshua Allen Griffith. Here's Ben.

[Ben Smith]

We can talk about the striker, not talk about the strike. I don't know how you feel.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, let's talk about it. I want to talk about it.

[Ben Smith]

I don't know. Should I monologue about the strike? Please?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Whatever you want to say.

[Ben Smith]

Well, I guess I'd say that nobody ever wants to go on strike, right? Like, it's a very scary thing. In a business that already has a lot of uncertainty, it's very scary to proactively stop working. But it was something that we felt we had to do because we felt as though the studios gave us no option. That when we went on strike back in May, most of our essential issues, they did not counter and rejected outright. When you make the decision to go on strike, you only do that if you reach that point where you kind of value yourself enough and your work and, like, recognize what you deserve and what's fair. And I think that once you kind of accept that and make that choice, while it's scary, it's also very empowering. And because we did that and because we didn't break for five months. The studios realized that they couldn't wait us out. The only way to get us back to work was to engage with us meaningfully and negotiate in good faith. And I think right now we're ratifying it. I expect it'll pass our new deal, and we're very proud of the new deal, that there are gains for writers in all areas and on issues that we were told at the beginning we would never get. And the goal of these things were purely to preserve our career, that we saw a trajectory of where things were going and more than anything, trying to put safeguards on so that this isn't just a gig, it's a job, and it's something that future generations and our own generation can continue to do. In reality, the deal kind of got made in the span of three days, within two more days of kind of going over the fine print and changing a little language. But the bulk of this deal was done in three days. And I think there's a frustration that there was a lot of pain that could have been avoided. But I'm grateful that we stood up and we held the line and that we took care of each other emotionally, financially, and saw it through. So we're excited to be back and excited to be working under this new contract and excited to make more TV for everyone to enjoy.

[Jamie Babbitt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Heck, yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's good.

[Ben Smith]

That's probably too long, but I'm just. I love that it's the spiel.

[Maggie Bowles]

I think it's really important. I think it's really important to talk about it and to acknowledge it and to.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Agreed?

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Ben Smith]

Thank you.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay, so rewind back to season two, and you're writing the season two finale, and the room is all working on the season two finale, and you've written the scene where we're in a theater and Ben Glenroy drops dead on stage. How much at that point of season three of the murder, of the arc of the mystery, did you and the other writers have kind of figured out when you came back into the room for season three?

[Ben Smith]

Very little.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay.

[Ben Smith]

In fact, you know, part of the fun was kind of looking at the pieces from the finale and seeing where we could go with it. For example, we did not know that we were going to have him come back to life and then die a second time. Like, that was a very exciting discovery. In the first week, someone pitched, what if he didn't die? And he. He shows up. And so we didn't know that. All we kind of had was this little monologue he was giving about being a creature of the night. I think we were all being like, what is a creature? Like, what does that mean? We're also. We spent some of those early weeks, like, figuring out what does this play even, or looking at clues. We're like, he looks like he's kind of dressed in the 50s. Like, he's in a trench coat. You know, the lighting looks like he might be on a pier. And we're like, oh, maybe he's about to get on a boat to go somewhere. So we kind of just watched the episode, you know, and saw what was shot, and we kind of went from there.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And that's so good.

[Ben Smith]

You know, from there, we kind of like the idea that it's someone in the show. And then you spend those first couple weeks fleshing out the cast and the people around it, the, you know, the producers, the actors, the crew, and kind of pitching on who would be a compelling killer. And, you know, after a couple weeks, we'd settled on the version that we went with, but it wasn't like we showed up day one, and it was laid out for us, but it was kind of like, these are the things that we need to figure out before we can go further. And we spent time kind of talking very big picture. At the start of the season, you

[Ryan Tillotson]

did know that there was going to be music, though, right? You had to have known there was going to be a musical element.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, because that was teased early. Right.

[Ryan Tillotson]

People were constantly giving us, like. Like, trying to pull clues out of the music lyrics, and I'm just curious how that collaboration works with the music and.

[Ben Smith]

Well, first of all, very happy that me or, like, I or none of the other writers were responsible for writing those lyrics. And Pasek and Paul and the rest of the people they collaborated with did an amazing job. And I think maybe it's come up on other podcasts, but really we would throw out stuff just wildly specific, like, it's in Nova Scotia. It's on a lighthouse. There's, like, There may be. There's an idea of, like, sea creatures, or everyone is a creature of the night. And then we would get something back later, and we'd listen to it, and we'd see them performing it at Rough Cut, and we'd be like, oh, my God. All these just, like, random images and ideas that we threw out there are actually woven in, and then something much bigger has been built on top of it. But early in the year, when Pasek and Paul signed on, they came into the writers room in person with us. And John pitched them based on conversations we'd had, the plot of this. And it kind of felt like it was just a conversation between Pascal, Paul, and John because they all spoke this Broadway language that I personally didn't speak. But everything they would say, they would then reference other musicals and like, oh, it could be this type of number from this show. And they kind of just like, encircled closer and closer, what the song was and what needed to happen and what their reference points were. It was really cool to watch.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Wow. So, like, on when you deliver those scripts with the song in it, what does that look like?

[Ben Smith]

So by the time we've written an episode that has a song in it, we've been given the full lyrics already. So we already know the song more on our end. And this is a big part of episode 10 is kind of figuring out how we break up the song, what images we're seeing with the song, and kind of trying to piece together how we want that to lay out. Because in 10, during that big final number of for the Sake of the Child, we are revealing the murder, we're also kind of catching the murderer. We're all, like, doing it in there. And it was kind of in the script. We have the lyrics, and it's a lot of us putting the action lines in of what we're seeing during that piece.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Interesting. I did not expect it to be done that way.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, neither did I, actually.

[Ben Smith]

That's our best guess of it. And then once they do it, a lot of credit goes to the editors, who then kind of probably start with what our suggestion or expectation was. But then they find. And Shelly and Peyton did an incredible job with this, of reordering it to make it its best form. But that's part of our job, is just trying to predict what we think is how we want to pace it out.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Because, yeah, in episode 10 specifically, there's a little bit of. I feel like almost all the songs, right?

[Maggie Bowles]

I think so. Yeah.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

There's like, a little bit of all of them.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So you were choosing the pieces of each of those songs and kind of figuring out what needed to be seen in those moments. Wow.

[Donna (Character)]

A nanny's only duty's to the children to keep them swaddled in the safety of her care where the fierce and iron will she would fight and she would kill if she spoke she'll be provoked and you just woke up Mama bear.

[John Hoffman]

It was just an accident.

[Ben Smith]

I didn't mean to.

[Donna (Character)]

Cliff, you can justify it.

[Jamie Babbitt]

Say it was for your mom or

[Donna (Character)]

that it wasn't accident.

[Cliff (Character)]

I didn't mean to.

[Ben Smith]

We were thinking, what is different here? And what if it's not that there's an element of accident? You know, there's no premeditation with Cliff. Cliff is. He's. He's discovering in that very moment what his mom did. He realizes mom's in danger. His mom has always cared for him. He's just kind of impulsively standing up for his mom. And he's wounded. He's been called boy. He just kind of like snaps in a way that's different than Poppy's premeditation to Jan's revenge. It doesn't make him innocent in any way, but we wanted a different emotion, place, and circumstances, so that informed it a little bit. And what you said about Don is also true, is that. And she tries to make this point that she was not trying to kill him. And in fact, she did not kill him. She didn't know how much rep was in Skip. She didn't know he'd have an empty stomach. She didn't know all of these things, that she was just trying to protect her son and delay the release of the show and give a chance to retool it and change the narrative. So we wanted to mix up the circumstances of his death or two deaths from previous seasons. So that was one of the things that informed it. And then the second, among other things, was like the theme of the season of motherhood, of what you do to protect your child and your family. And something that often we have in the show that John kind of leads, which I think is been effective for us, are these two mysteries, and one often informs the other, and one is the murder and one is not. And kind of what's going on with Loretta and her backstory is the one mystery. And as it is solved and it is resolved, Mabel witnesses it and kind of like clicks into this mother son relationship in the wings and realizes that's kind of the final piece that helps her put together what happened with Donna and Clint. So that whole theme of motherhood and protecting and vice versa, what you would do to protect your parent, kind of

[Maggie Bowles]

for the sake of a child.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, my gosh, what a powerful moment.

[Maggie Bowles]

Can you talk at all about writing for 21 time Academy Award nominee Meryl Streep and what the vibe was like writing Loretta's dialogue and Loretta's arc and the love story between Oliver and Loretta, which I loved so much?

[Ben Smith]

Yeah, yeah. That was maybe one of my favorite kind of like lovely surprises of the season, is their wonderful dynamic and chemistry. And how sweet it is and how specific it is. You know, it was. It feels silly to say, but I was really impressed by Meryl Streep, definitely. Once the casting became official in the room, like, that's so exciting. And then you're like, oh, my God, we have to write something worthy of her. And one of the challenges, kind of good challenges of the season is, in a way, we had five leads, we had our three leads, then we had Meryl, and we had Paul, who all. We wanted to give them arcs and media material. But you also can't get, like, too wrapped up in trying to psych yourself out and override anything. And I think she probably does a good job of making us look like better writers. You know, she's. She really. For someone who's a 20 plus time nominee, you're saying, like, she kind of disappears into the role. I'm like, who is this, like, very earnest aspiring actress? Like, I believe her and I'm not watching Meryl the whole time. So I think she gets a lot of the credit.

[Maggie Bowles]

I think everybody gets credit because I think it was great.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I loved it and I think she was great. She was great. We're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, more from Ben Smith. We'll talk about what we didn't see in the finale episode and of course, the final confrontation between Ben Glenroy and his murderer. So I am curious if there's any. Any particular difficult moments that you had when crafting this story, when trying to get to the killer, when trying to piece any of this together. If there's anything you can talk about.

[Ben Smith]

In some ways, writing the finale is the easiest because we've known where we're going the whole time and we've been building upon it. And basically you're like, I know these six things that need to happen. So in that sense, you're like, oh, that's easy. The harder part is that there's like six things that need to happen and 25 things that you want to happen, and you can't do all. I think when John and I wrote our first draft script, it was like 50 pages. And then we spent a day. Day trying to get it down to, like, 40, and then like a week trying to get it down to 35 or something like that. So that's, I think, the hard part. And you lose a lot of fun stuff on the cutting room floor. Like, there was a scene with them written, never, like, shot or anything like that of them, like, trying to go to a bail bondsman. To, like, get money, to get Loretta out of jail. Like, them driving in a car frantically to opening night theater. Like, stuff like that, that at the end of the day, you can already start with her out of prison in the. They're out of jail in their apartment and catch up. So, like, stuff that you kind of grab the stuff that's most important, but there's a lot that you want to do at the end. And there's so many fun threads up in the air that you want to service, but you find the most important ones. This is. And I know you like technical stuff, Ryan. This is, like, very specific. And I was reminded of it because of Shirin, what Shireen was talking about on nine, that we shot these episodes a little out of order to accommodate Paul's schedule because Paul was going to be out of town. And so we actually wrote and shot Paul's scenes in episode 10 before we wrote any of the rest of the script. So we wrote the elevator scene and we wrote his singing on the lighthouse, and we filmed those before the rest of the script was written. So John and I wrote those scenes and sent them and then we watched them and we kind of knew what the rest of the episode was going to be, obviously to write those scenes. But then we saw them. We're like, okay, now we need to kind of build the rest of the episode to make sure those scenes really fit. And it changed some of the choreography that we wanted because we're like, oh, we want to. We basically filmed the elevator scene and it was like a seven minute block. But we didn't want, like, cut away for that long. So we kind of figure how do we cut back and forth? Where do we cut and go back to present day. And we kind of spliced it. But it was something we wrote and filmed weeks before everything else.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That is interesting.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And that was just because of his schedule. He had to be off shooting Ghostbusters.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah. But we knew that's what we wanted. But it wasn't as though we had a full script already. But we were kind of like, okay, well, we've now filmed seven minutes. Let's build everything around it now.

[Maggie Bowles]

Right?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Wow.

[Cliff (Character)]

It's Cliff, not boy.

[John Hoffman]

Sure.

[Ben Smith]

How do you call the cops? Would you just Google cops?

[Cliff (Character)]

I'm more than just Donna's boy. I'm my own person with my own thoughts and ideas.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Like, I told her you weren't right for the part. She should have listened.

[John Hoffman]

I said you were a superhero hack

[Cliff (Character)]

who had no business on Broadway, that you were a stinker A phony. What did you call me?

[Jamie Babbitt]

A phony.

[Cliff (Character)]

Take it back.

[Ben Smith]

But also, when you get to the end, you know, in the same way I was saying that we kind of know what we have to do because we've been building to it. Sometimes even an execution of a scene, though it's fun to go back to the previous episodes to help figure out how to write something. And by that I mean that elevator moment. Cliff could be a little cartoonish through the season, right? He's doing cartwheels and he's stress dancing and he's over the top. But we want that moment. And the show's always striving to find moments of emotion and sensitivity. And when we wrote the first episode of the season, when they're doing the apology circle at the back of the party and Ben Glenroy tells Cliff, calls him boy and he corrects him, Cliff, boy. That was just a throwaway joke in the moment. Just indicate dynamic. It was never written with the idea that it's going to come back for the murder. And in the second episode, we're, like, saying that calling Ben a phony was something that Charles had said, which was, we came up with that story to make Charles invested in the. In this story and have a sense of guilt and investment and care. And so those were ideas that were just, like, existed for those episodes. When you get to 10, you're like, oh, what do we have? You kind of searched the previous episodes. We're like, oh, they both have this. A little bit of a trigger. And it feels organic that they might call each other this. And it actually is hitting at something much deeper that either of the characters know that you're pushing on a bruise.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Absolutely.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I thought that was such a great scene. Very emotional scene when Ben dies, when Cliff murders Ben.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah, that's right.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Cliff murders Ben.

[Maggie Bowles]

Side note, Ben let us know later on that it was executive producer Dan Fogelman who had originally pitched that idea of having that thread return that phony boy exchange that soft spot that gets

[Ryan Tillotson]

him to push him off.

[Maggie Bowles]

Did you have a favorite moment from episode 10 or a favorite, I don't know, like, reveal maybe or something?

[Ben Smith]

That was really delightful to me was the interrogation that they have of Donna. One thing that was fun when I saw it was that it had not been scripted, that they had these little note cards hidden in their hands. And that was like a fun thing that probably came up with on set. And I thought they're like, physicality of. And kind of the way they play it is great. It also, I Mean, I like those moments where we kind of are a little self aware of the show. Like, God, we never get a confession that easily. Or, wow, I hope that was recorded. Or like, oh, my God, we're getting so good at all those things. I was like, oh, that's. That was a fun little, like, twist for our characters. And I like that Mabel senses that that was too easy.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I mean, as soon as Donna confesses, I'm like, well, she didn't do it. I was like, you don't confess like. Like, just like Loretta. But then Donna actually did. Did end up doing it.

[Maggie Bowles]

Well, she did half of it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Half of it. Half of it.

[Ben Smith]

She did half of it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Donna (Character)]

You idiots actually got me. I pushed Ben. I couldn't risk him performing the next night and. And ruining our show. I killed Ben Glenroy.

[Maggie Bowles]

We get Donna's backstory in 10 a little bit more. And I really liked, like, her on her giant brick phone giving birth to Cliff. And what can you tell us just about Donna and writing that character?

[Ben Smith]

Well, I thought Linda Eamon was so funny in it. And I remember by the time we'd written that, you know, the first few episodes had been filmed, and we've been able to see cuts and stuff. And I remember watching her monologue in episode three when she's, like, talking about a showstopper and Debbie and Duluth and all that. And I was like, oh, my God. It's something almost, like, lyrical in the way that she speaks and her performance. And honestly, for me, and I don't know how the other writers felt like that was actually a moment where the character kind of became three dimensional for me. I was like, oh, she's made it her own. And so all of which say it becomes easier to write a character once you've seen them. Kind of show you who the character is a little bit. So it was fun to come back around.

[Maggie Bowles]

Definitely.

[Ben Smith]

Five minutes to curtain, people.

[Donna (Character)]

May I ask one favorite? Don't call the police yet. I'll turn myself in after the curtain falls. It's my son's first Broadway show. I'm a woman with stage four lung cancer. I'm not a flight risk. And there are no more famous actors here. I can kill. No offense, Charles.

[John Hoffman]

Lots taken.

[Donna (Character)]

I gave you a shot, Oliver. I gave you a shot when no one else would. Can you please give me this for me?

[Ben Smith]

Like, as a fan of the show, it was so cool to see the play come together. As a viewer, I was invested in them solving the case, but I was also just very invested in them pulling off this musical. So it was cool to watch. Yeah, yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

And I loved seeing, you know, Oliver steps in and gets to fill the lead role.

[Cliff (Character)]

At the edge of the world in the dead of the night A lifehouse looms over the ocean and her body lies curled Such a sinister sight Guts and gore on the shore Nova Scotia with that blood curdling cry or the inside of a child well, it rattles your soul as the dark takes control it's enough to drive you wild when you're a creature of the night all alone in a black field your sanity cracking A creature.

[Ben Smith]

But I, I mean, that's also something I think we had in our back pocket all season on our just our wish list. You know, we have Marty Short, like, he's a great musical performer and theater performer. Like, let's give him a time to be on stage. Like, why wouldn't you? So we knew that we wanted that and it was not difficult to contrive something that Jonathan, we've set up that he's taking these anti anxiety meds that opening night. He can't perform. So that's just something that we wanted to see.

[Maggie Bowles]

I love that we saw it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Time for another break. When we come back, the elusive and talented Jamie Babbitt, director of the episode. She'll tell us about her favorite moments and what it's like coming in at the very end.

[Maggie Bowles]

Welcome back. Another exciting guest today, Jamie Babbitt, who we've tried to talk to for the past three seasons, we finally got some time with. And she's been a big part of Only Murders since day one. She directed the first and last two episodes on season one. She directed the last two episodes in season two. And this season she came in for the finale.

[Jamie Babbitt]

This show is a dream to work on. So I worked on the pilot, kind of helping John conceive the whole thing from the very beginning. And we hoped and dreamed that it would be really popular. And I remember the last day of shooting the finale of the first season, Steve Martin was like, you guys, I just have to say something. And like the whole crew got quiet and he was like, I think this show's gonna be a hit. We were like, well, we hope so. That would be really cool. What I loved about the second season is that there was this promise of Martin Short's character and his theater. So how cool that the finale took place in the theater because it promised that there was going to be a whole season of theater the next year. So when I came back for the third season finale to go back to that theater was awesome. And then, like, what a thrill as the director to be able to kill one of my favorite characters from the first season and have the promise of her for the whole next season. So I'm so excited to work on next season because she's just one of my favorite actors of all time. And I love her character so much. I mean, for John and I, that introduction to her was everything. And there was a moment where she almost wasn't available, and John was like, jamie, if we don't get Jane lynch, like, I don't even want this character. Like, it doesn't make any sense. Like, this is. This is the character. This is. It is Jane Lynch. And it was such a dream to work with her and Steve because she really idolizes him, like most comedians. And I remember her first day of shooting on the set, she. We had very limited time with her, so. Because she was so busy, and she always was busy because she's so good. But I said, okay, now you can do your freedom take and, you know, do whatever you want if you want to improvise. And she was like, oh, God, no. I can't improvise with Marty and Steve around. That makes me way too nervous. So I was like, okay, well, you don't have to. And she was like, I don't want to. I just want to say the lines. That's enough for me.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Wow, that's so surprising. She's like. She's known.

[Maggie Bowles]

The queen of improv.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Known for improv.

[Jamie Babbitt]

Yeah. But guess who's the king? You know? So I think some actors, they just get really nervous because it's like they're idols.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, I totally get it. Yeah, it makes sense.

[Jamie Babbitt]

I understand.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Jamie Babbitt]

Yeah.

[Ben Smith]

Hard.

[Jamie Babbitt]

I think my favorite improv was Steve improvised at the party scene where we kind of mislead the audience that he's going to go upstairs and get the wine. He improvised that text that he got from Joy where he said, oh, she's flirting with me. Or like, Scott Bakula says hi or something like that. It was just a very Steve Martin moment and loved it. I loved the callback to Joy, and I love that he had hope for that relationship, even though she's clearly moved on to stop Akula.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Jamie Babbitt]

So that was my favorite improv.

[Ben Smith]

Wow.

[Cliff (Character)]

I just got a romantic feeler text from Joy.

[Ryan Tillotson]

What?

[Jamie Babbitt]

What'd she say?

[Cliff (Character)]

She says, scott Bakula says hi.

[Donna (Character)]

That's not romantic.

[Jamie Babbitt]

Probably my favorite, like, emotional moment was Meryl singing that Sara Brella song. It's just even in the rehearsals and in between the rehearsal and we had to light it and then we shot it, she was just cuddling that baby the whole time. Like, for an hour while they were setting up the lights, you could just see Meryl off on the side of the theater, just cuddling and petting that baby, which was, you know, a baby doll. Just staying in character. And it was in that music playing, and she was practicing, and it was just, what, Sara Bareilles and I mean, that's a dream team right there. So.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, I think that's my favorite song from the season, too.

[Jamie Babbitt]

Yeah, me too. Me too.

[Maggie Bowles]

Although my favorite choreography was Creatures of the Night. That was my favorite visually song.

[Jamie Babbitt]

Yeah. I loved Steve's little coochie coochie coo moment. That was my favorite choreography. Just to watch his body do the coochie coochie coo was just hilarious.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. That's so good. I wasn't expecting to get to see Martin Short. I know, sing like that. Like, that was such a delight.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I loved it.

[Jamie Babbitt]

He's a great singer.

[Ben Smith]

He is.

[Jamie Babbitt]

He's a great singer. Yeah, he's a great singer. First season, I had them all hum the theme music.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh.

[Jamie Babbitt]

Which we ended up using. When Selena was showering in the last scene of the pilot, you hear the humming of the. And then you reveal that she knew those kids on her computer. So I basically pitched that to the composer. I was like, hey, what do you think about having everyone hum the theme? And he said, what does that mean? And I said, I don't know, but I think it would be cool. And he was like, yeah, well, great. Like, let's. Let's do it. So I brought the mic in, and I said, hey, Marty, can you hum the theme? And he was like, okay. You know, saying it. And then I said, selena, can you hum? And she was like, oh, I'm not as good of a singer as Marty. I was like, you're a pop star.

[Ben Smith]

What?

[Jamie Babbitt]

So it was just funny. She's very sweet. And under, you know, under says everything. So of course she's a great singer. But she was nervous, so she sang it, and then Steve sang it. But I was like, they're all musicians. Like, Steve has, like, perfect pitch. Marty's a great singer. Selena's literally a pop star.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So, okay. I love it.

[Maggie Bowles]

Well, let's keep talking about the music numbers, because you got snippets of, I think, all of them right in the finale. Can you tell us a little bit about the choreography and how that all came together?

[Ryan Tillotson]

There's a lot, especially Creatures of the Night.

[Maggie Bowles]

Creatures of the Night is what I'm thinking of. It's so absurd and wonderful.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I loved it.

[Jamie Babbitt]

So we worked with the same choreographer that we had worked with in the first season, and he worked with all the kind of top singers and dancers on Broadway at a studio in the Broadway district. And so he taught Creatures of the Night to all these Broadway ensemble people who obviously had a lot more time than Meryl and Marty. And then basically, on the day, gave really simple choreography to Marty and Meryl and folded them in with everybody else. But the ensemble of dancers, besides the leads, had had, I would say, maybe two weeks with John Carafa, who's our brilliant choreographer. He worked with them on that. And then the choreography of Marilyn, Marty going up the lighthouse steps. That was something that Meryl and Paul Rudd had shot maybe a month before I got there. And then when Marty saw the choreography that was going up and down those stairs, he was like, wait, what? I was like, I'm sorry. This was established by Paul Rudd and Meryl, like, a month ago. So that one little part of the episode was actually shot by John Hoffman about a month before because Paul Rudd had to go do Ghostbusters.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, right.

[Jamie Babbitt]

So by the time I got to the finale, Paul wasn't there. So John had to shoot all of Paul's stuff before I got there.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay, well, I want to talk about Dickie and Loretta. So they have this very beautiful scene between the two of them. I was just wondering if you could tell us about that.

[Jamie Babbitt]

I mean, it was so cool to see Meryl sort of finally own up to being his mother.

[Donna (Character)]

Yes.

[Jamie Babbitt]

And, I mean, what a dream to watch her do her thing. And they're both such good actors. So that was just like a dream director moment where you're, like, pinching yourself like, Jesus, they're so good. And I had grown up. My first girlfriend was an adoptee who ended up meeting her biological parent in her 40s. So I've been through that in real life, and I know Meryl had a friend, too, who she talked about that had some kind of, you know, backstory that was similar. So we both felt really invested in making it real for her and that, you know, she wants to show up for him, but she didn't want to fuck up his life. And, you know, it's just all the. It's complex.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Jamie Babbitt]

Which is the best writing. So I. Yeah, I just think they've. The writers have done a great job in writing these parent child complex dynamics.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Ma', am, we're gonna need you to push now.

[Donna (Character)]

I gotta go. Just get it done. I've won nine Tonys. I've given birth to 34 Broadway shows. But if someone asks me what my favorite thing I've ever made is, Mamma Mia. Hands down. Change the trajectory of the. My whole career. That's a joke. Producers can be funny. People don't realize that I'm your mommy. I'll protect you for the rest of your life.

[Maggie Bowles]

Was that like a young filter on Donna or something? Like. Yeah, okay.

[Jamie Babbitt]

I mean, it was a wig and it was makeup, but then it was also a little vfx.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, because it was. It was really impressive. But then after I saw her come back on the screen as present day Donna, I was actually like, oh, she actually looks fantastic.

[Jamie Babbitt]

She does.

[Maggie Bowles]

She's got fantastic skin already.

[Jamie Babbitt]

She does. She really does. Yeah, she really does. Yeah. She's gorgeous.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Jamie Babbitt]

What a pro. What an amazing actress.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Jamie Babbitt]

That was a dream also to work with her. She's just, you know, merit, level of complexity, nuance, humor, pathos, professional. All this, all the good stuff.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I'd love to talk about the scene where we. Well, speaking of, I guess, you know, parents protecting their kids and kids also protecting their parents, you know, that seems to be kind of a theme. But the scene where Ben dies, you know, where it's Cliff and Ben at that elevator shaft. Could you talk a little bit about shooting that scene?

[Jamie Babbitt]

The scene where he's pushed down an elevator shaft.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ben Smith]

Where.

[Jamie Babbitt]

So that was brilliantly directed by John Hoffman. Because that had Paul Rudd in it. Yeah. So that was a month before. So I had seen John's footage and was able to know what I was cutting in and out of. But that's John's.

[John Hoffman]

That scene, obviously a crux scene for the whole season. Did it surprise you?

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's co creator, showrunner and co writer of the finale, John Hoffman. And we'll hear more from him after the break. Holy cow.

[Maggie Bowles]

Holy cow. Now we know. And I guess we kind of knew. At the end of episode nine, we had a. We had a sprinkling of Donna.

[John Hoffman]

A proper sprinkling.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, There we go.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Wow.

[Maggie Bowles]

But now we see there's a whole other layer.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Welcome back. We're talking now with John Hoffman, showrunner, co creator and co writer of this episode, which we can now acknowledge in the show.

[Maggie Bowles]

The cast of Deathrattle is skeptical about Oliver's decision turn it into a musical. Did you have any of that pushback in the only murders cast, cast or writers or anybody where they were like, John Are you sure this is what we should be doing?

[John Hoffman]

You know, I didn't. And, and I say that only because the collection of talent around Death Rattle Dazzle had a foundation of, oh, this is going to be. Yes, A ridiculous for sure. And so that part felt in line with our show. That's perfectly fine. But there, you know, I think we touched on it a few times. There's the example that Loretta gives Oliver in episode three for Little Shop of Horrors.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yes.

[John Hoffman]

And if there's the Heart, you can pull off ridiculous premises and make a musical of it and people will be drawn to it in some ways. So that was at the basis. And then the other part was really when you have Justin Paul and Benj Pasek writing music, bringing along this unbelievable collection of Marc Shaiman, Scott Whitman, Sara Bareilles, Michael R. Jackson to contribute music and lyrics to your insane idea. And then you watch all of the performers and actors like singing these songs and realizing they. They're really working. Creatures of the Night suddenly works. Are there breeding crab men? Yes, but they're there within the context of a big number. But what also made me very, very happy is that the great work of John Carafa who choreographed and everyone, Dana's costumes, everyone. The lighting, the look of the stage, the whole world of that. And then the amazing orchestrations. We had an incredible gathered collection of musicians from New York City who play at the Met, who are scoring this. And under the guidance of our musical director, Ian Eisendrath. I mean, this is like a top notch level sort of group for the most ridiculous endeavor.

[Maggie Bowles]

I mean, the other thing we get is we get Martin Short singing in this episode, which I was so ready for and I love, so much love

[Ryan Tillotson]

that he took over.

[John Hoffman]

Were you surprised? Was it all set up for you to go Howard?

[Maggie Bowles]

Ryan thought.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I thought Howard. She knew.

[John Hoffman]

Oh, you felt it.

[Maggie Bowles]

I knew. Based on, based on Oliver's. Are you saying what I think you're saying? I was like, oh, he's not, but we know what you're gonna do.

[John Hoffman]

Oh, that's good. I'm glad it worked. Both one way for the other.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

The only thing that bums me out and I could not get over and could not sort of find my way to it is how the hell can we get a Selena Gomez number? And it killed me that we didn't and can't because that's just not Mabel's bag unless she's in a dream sequence. So we're able to sort of get an amazing number from her in a certain way out of a fantasy that Oliver might have in episode two. But the beauty of Selina is constant. However, the beauty for the character of Mabel and her arc across the season, while all this insanity in the musical is going on on stage, being able to give Mabel that driving push through to solve the case after she had been the one throughout the entire season and to sort of put the things together in the final moments while the last episode is unspooling, that felt really right to us as well. And she. Is there anyone who gives a better deductive look? The last two episodes here to sort of have these scenes very delicately played. The scene starting with Donna and Meryl in episode eight in the bathroom, that would then have resonance for Meryl at the top of episode nine. Then to sort of understand what's going on and to watch Linda play the scene at the top of episode 10 when she realizes, as the proof comes out, that they have this hanky with her lipstick on it. And she knows exactly what that means and what that means that she never saw. And then for her to say, I did it, and she's still protecting her child. That felt, watching her play that, riding that line, keeping it hidden. I'm curious. I don't know how it played for you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, it's. Yeah, well. Cause it's tough because even in that moment, I'm like, did she. You know.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, well. And that's because we're looking at it through Mabel, and Mabel's got that look of, something's not right here. You know, we're missing a crucial piece of this. Of this puzzle.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You know, Loretta did it to protect Dickie, and now she's doing it to protect Cliff. And so it's like, did she. You know, and that's it.

[John Hoffman]

And, you know, the whole season starts with a speech about protecting a child. And. And Meryl's audition is. Is out there saying, you know, I would have no compunction to kill for the sake of a child. And. And now she's singing a song for the sake of a child at the. You know, it all kind of. And you've been distracted a little bit by the story of Loretta and Dickie and. For sure. And everything else. So it's a mother and son over there. But it. You've missed the fact that the same odd dynamic misconstrued in every way and should never be repeated. Yeah, but that's the game we were playing with the season.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Ryan has been suspicious of Tobert all season.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I know.

[Maggie Bowles]

And he seems like he might be okay. I mean, Were we wrong to suspect. Suspect Talbert? Were we just protective of Mabel? Or is there maybe more to him than we have seen?

[John Hoffman]

I think it's a balance. Right. So there will always be. You know, whenever any of our trio is in a relationship with someone, there's going to have to sort of many times you. You just feel it naturally. I think, wait a minute. Why is this person doing that? You're just assessing everyone in a certain way that you might not otherwise. When you step back and you look at what Tobert's been doing, and he's been pretty upfront, he admits when he lies. And what I like about Tobert is that he recognizes in Mabel something he doesn't have. He doesn't have that instinct for investigations and a sense of the way you look at things. So by giving up his hard drive by just simply helping her. I like him. And I don't know what. You know, I. I liked not closing the door on a love interest for Mabel.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I do feel like Mabel chooses the poorest. No, I guess that's not true. Charles. Charles had Jan, so.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, you mean. She's got the worst taste, just in terms.

[John Hoffman]

That was the worst.

[Maggie Bowles]

Although she was a very, very good musician, so.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Great bassoonist.

[John Hoffman]

Very good. A bassoonist for the ages.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

So something that the trio talks about a lot at this party. The end at the party is la, and we were, like, excited me very much. Yes.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We come to la.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. But we were wondering, like, what is that? Is that an idea that's being floated around? Can you even tell us?

[Ben Smith]

No.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay.

[John Hoffman]

But let's just put it this way. It was a big question for the crew, too, that day. They're like, what is going on?

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, you guys getting that here?

[Ryan Tillotson]

I don't really want to talk about la.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah, it's there. That's what I can tell you right now. And you're not wrong to ask the question, but we'll see. We'll see what happens.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Cliff (Character)]

Los Angeles, a city so nice they named it Los Angeles. So everyone's going there. But in the Big Apple, we remain. Maybe we could dig up a cold case or something.

[Jamie Babbitt]

I. I got a cold case for you.

[Cliff (Character)]

Where do I put it, huh?

[John Hoffman]

I had to make a big speech on the final day of shooting as we wrapped our season. And there we did a screening of the first episode for the cast and in the theater. And it was a really beautiful night, but I get like a. A weepy mess all the time every time I have to make this speech, because I'm. I get become a wreck. But the miracle of this season, which I'll just never forget, and I know none of us will, was the notion that the greatest living actress is going to join your television show and light everyone's light up. I said literally. Our literal lighthouse this season has been Meryl Streep and the joy she brought. What felt very gratifying was that she was having a good time and understood what she was doing. Felt different for her. And I mean, it's no secret that you're going to have a pretty good shot of that actress paying off what you're doing in ways that you never expected or dreamed. But just to say, I'll never forget that moment when we wrapped a season with Meryl Streep at the end of it and she just raised her hands and kind of said she just had one of the best times ever. And that was the most signature moment for me in the season. Probably, I think for everybody. Any moment you had to watch and learn and just enjoy, I would just say that.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, definitely.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love it. Yeah, I love it.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's it for today. I know that the season is over now, but you are not going to want to miss what's coming next from us here at Only Murders on the Pod. We've got two, maybe three more episodes coming for you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

On Friday, we'll talk all about Music with Benj Pasek, Justin Paul, Michael R. Jackson and Ian Eisendrath.

[Maggie Bowles]

These are huge people in the Broadway world. We're talking Grammy winning, Academy Award winning, Tony winning, Golden Globe winning. I mean, big, big, big people.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And after that, we'll talk all about sz.

[Maggie Bowles]

So please send us your ideas of who killed Saz and what the heck is going on, and we'll share those in a week.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And now that the WGA strike is over, we're doing our best to get as many of the writers from season three together to talk through the season. Fingers crossed.

[Maggie Bowles]

Fingers crossed.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Only Murders in the Pod is a production of Straw Hut Media. This episode was written, edited and hosted by Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillotson, with additional editing and sound mixing by Daniel Ferreira. Motion graphics for promotional materials are by Ali Ahmed with graphic design by Mohammad Samir. Our associate producer is Stephen Markley. Original music by Kyle Merritt. And Only Murders theme music by Siddhartha Khosla. Big, big thanks to John Hoffman, Javier Salas, Emily Leets, Yasmin Azarakish, Lydia McMahon, Cindy Neighbor and the rest of the Hulu team. And thanks to Keener and KK we wish you were with us this season.

[Maggie Bowles]

We miss you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We'll cut that right out.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah, I'll. I'll be sure to let him know that. The impression you made.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But to be fair, I don't think we were hosting.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. We didn't actually do the interview, so it's not our fault.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

I forget that no one knows who I am because everyone's talked to you and I've just been so.

[Ben Smith]

Ow.

[Maggie Bowles]

I'm having a hard time.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I can tell. You need to put a little further away or something.

[Jamie Babbitt]

What's.

[Maggie Bowles]

What's his name or her name?

[Ben Smith]

This is Fox.

[Maggie Bowles]

Fox.

[Ben Smith]

Yes.

[Maggie Bowles]

What a good. What a good little cat.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah.