S3 E10: Opening Night (Part 2)

Summary

Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast — S3 E10: Opening Night (Part 2)

Release Date: October 6, 2023
Hosts: Maggie Bowles & Ryan Tillotson
Guests: Benj Pasek & Justin Paul (Pasek and Paul), Michael R. Jackson, Ian Eisendrath

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Episode Overview

This finale episode of the “Only Murders in the Pod” podcast dives deep into the musical heart of Season 3’s climactic “Opening Night.” Hosts Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillotson bring listeners behind the curtain to unpack how the original songs for the show’s fictional musical, Death Rattle Dazzle, were conceived, written, recorded, and brought to life. Joining them are the powerhouse songwriting duo Benj Pasek and Justin Paul (La La Land, Dear Evan Hansen), Pulitzer winner Michael R. Jackson (A Strange Loop), and executive music producer Ian Eisendrath.

The conversation is playful, nerdy, and detailed—celebrating the delightful absurdity, craft, and collaborative spirit that turned an onscreen murder-mystery musical into a genuine love letter to Broadway.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How Pasek and Paul Joined the Project

• Justin Paul bumped into Sass Goldberg (a show writer) while on vacation. Jokingly volunteered their songwriting services for anything on the show (“a ditty, a jingle, a commercial… sign us up”—Benj Pasek, 01:01).
• The connection quickly became real when the S3 plotline called for a fictional musical, and Pasek & Paul were officially asked to join.
• They invited Michael R. Jackson to collaborate, initially tempting him with the promise of working with Meryl Streep.

2. Collaborative Songwriting Process

• “For the Sake of a Child”: Michael R. Jackson reveals he had never written for television or in collaboration like this. “It was a great opportunity and an interesting challenge. So I jumped into it.” (Michael R. Jackson, 03:15)
• Kickoff sessions with showrunner John Hoffman were crucial. He provided context, character backgrounds, dramatic intentions, and the actual tone they needed to strike.
• Much of the writing happened over Zoom (“We would just sort of get on Zoom together and we would... hack into it, bit by bit” — Michael R. Jackson, 15:10).

3. Death Rattle Dazzle’s Style & Broadway Inspirations

• The team describes Death Rattle Dazzle as a loving homage and gentle parody of overblown, melodramatic Broadway musicals, especially those from the 90s/2000s (e.g., Jekyll & Hyde, Lestat, The Scarlet Pimpernel).
• Quote: “Our goal was for people to watch it and be like, is this insane or is this really good? Or is it kind of both?” (Benj Pasek, 08:42)

4. Writing Specific Numbers

• Creatures of the Night: The big opening, setting a “melodramatic, slightly bonkers” tone. The inclusion of Crab Men is a running joke (“You can’t introduce and just leave them out to dry!” — Benj Pasek, 20:41).
• Nanny’s Lullaby (“Look for the Light”): Meryl Streep’s ballad, co-written with Sara Bareilles, intentionally “beautiful” and haunting, providing the show’s emotional core.
  • Collaborative sessions happened in-person on the Upper West Side. “Our goal, which was amazing, but, like, we always hoped that we’d get to maybe write something with [Sara].” (Benj Pasek, 23:41)
• The Pickwick Triplets Song: Co-written with Mark Shaiman and Scott Wittman, designed as a fast, alliterative patter designed to intentionally trip up Steve Martin’s character.
  • “It was in the best way, up, this competition... how much could we make the group laugh?” (Benj Pasek, 34:49)
  • Originally included the line, “Would a baby get fried for matricide?”—Steve Martin objected (“I don’t really want to picture a child in the electric chair” — Benj Pasek, 36:05).

5. Casting Surprises and Highlights

• The writers didn’t initially know who would sing which parts—but Michael R. Jackson had total faith in Paul Rudd. (“I just am like a whisperer in that way. I just can tell who’s got it and who doesn’t.” — Michael R. Jackson, 13:28)
• Paul Rudd’s vocal prowess was a revelation; Meryl Streep delivered layered, truthful performances; Martin Short brought wild spontaneity to every take.

6. Recording and Production

• Executive music producer Ian Eisendrath describes “pinch me” moments collaborating with legends like Streep, Martin, and Short.
• The team built a temporary studio on set so actors could jump in and record between scenes. “Production really embraced that this was a musical this season.” (Benj Pasek, 36:59)
• About 50% of the show’s musical vocals are “live” from set, interwoven meticulously with pre-records for maximum authenticity—a “patchwork quilt” of the best takes.
  • “No session is the same… It’s just this endless puzzle that I find so challenging.” (Ian Eisendrath, 45:10–48:52)

7. Thematic Depth and Joyful Absurdity

• The podcast highlights how musical theater—especially in Only Murders’ world—gains power and comedy from “taking itself seriously and not seriously at the same time.”
• Quote: “It felt like four boys in a room, like, playing Legos… ‘What if we added this? Oh my God, let’s connect them!’” (Justin Paul, 35:30)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Our goal was for people to watch it and be like, is this insane or is this really good? Or is it kind of both?” (Benj Pasek, 08:42)
• “It was a great opportunity and an interesting challenge. So I jumped into it.” (Michael R. Jackson, 03:15)
• “I just am like a whisperer in that way. I just can tell who’s got it and who doesn’t.” (Michael R. Jackson, 13:28)
• On Nanny’s Lullaby: “Is it okay that this is going to be like... We want to write a beautiful song?” (Benj Pasek, 26:10)
• “It felt like one of the most joyful work experiences that we’ve ever been a part of.” (Justin Paul, 52:29)

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Songwriting & Recording: Timestamps by Key Songs

• For the Sake of a Child - Concept and collaboration: 03:15–06:40, 10:53–18:46
• Creatures of the Night - Opening, tone, and Crab Men: 20:00–21:37
• Look for the Light (Nanny’s Lullaby) - Writing with Sara Bareilles, Meryl’s performance: 22:15–29:14
• Pickwick Triplets Song - Co-writing with Shaiman/Whitman, patter song details: 32:42–36:40, 33:04–34:49
• Recording Logistics - Building the studio, mixing live and pre-recorded vocals: 36:59–51:23

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Collaborative Culture & Takeaways

• Writers and composers worked with genuine affection and very little ego, joyfully riffing and one-upping each other in the service of both parody and craft.
• The Broadway community is deeply interconnected—collaborators frequently cite decades-long friendships, mutual fanboying, and a love of experiment.
• All guests agreed: creating a (fake) musical for a hit TV show, especially with opportunities to write for Streep, Martin, Short, and Rudd, was a career highlight.
• Meta-musicality: The cast and crew reveled in the diegetic musical form, letting viewers “in on the joke” while playing everything straight.

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Conclusion

This special episode captures the exuberant behind-the-scenes efforts involved in mounting Death Rattle Dazzle, spotlighting how artifice, sincerity, and a sense of play can transform even the most over-the-top conceit into a love letter to musical theater. Fans of Only Murders—and musical theater in general—will find the podcast both illuminating and infectiously joyful.

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For theories about Szaz’s murder or more behind-the-scenes insights, tune in next week as the showrunners and writers return to the podcast!

Transcript

[Maggie Bowles]

Straw Hat Media.

[Benj Pasek]

Is it dark where you are? Are you in la?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, we are in la.

[Maggie Bowles]

The sun has not yet risen.

[Justin Paul]

No, it will.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Maybe during this interview.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, thanks.

[Benj Pasek]

Thanks for chatting with us so early.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Of course. You know, when we were told this is when we can do it. And so we're here.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, my goodness.

[Benj Pasek]

Oh, sorry, guys. I didn't know you were in la. I'm sorry.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's okay.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's okay.

[Justin Paul]

We made it work, Justin, that you made them do this.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. We blame you mostly. Justin.

[Narrator/Host]

Hello and welcome back to Only Murders in the Pod. I'm Maggie Bowles.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And I'm Ryan Tillotson. And this is part two of our coverage of episode 10, the season finale. Today we're talking all about music. We'll talk with the lead songwriting duo, Benj Pasek and Justin Paul, known professionally

[Narrator/Host]

as Pasek and Paul, who you've probably heard us reference a million times this season.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And we'll also talk to Michael R. Jackson, who co wrote for the Sake of a Child with Pasek and Paul.

[Maggie Bowles]

There it is.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Plus executive music producer Ian Eisendrath.

[Narrator/Host]

And we'll dive into each of the songs, their inspirations, their processes, and how it all came together in the end.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And if you don't know, Pasek and Paul are a pretty big deal.

[Narrator/Host]

Huge.

[Ryan Tillotson]

They've won an Academy Award and a Golden Globe for their original song in a little movie called La La Land.

[Maggie Bowles]

Remember that one?

[Ryan Tillotson]

They won a Grammy and a couple of Tonys for Dear Evan Hansen. They've won a lot of awards.

[Maggie Bowles]

They've won a lot of awards.

[Narrator/Host]

They were also producers on the Pulitzer Prize winning, Antoni winning and Obie winning musical written by Michael R. Jackson. A strange loop. And today we're talking to all three of those amazing people.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Here's Benj Pasek.

[Justin Paul]

So we are friendly with one of the writers, Sass Goldberg. I happen to be on vacation at the same exact location that she was on vacation at last summer. And we were sitting together with like our one day overlap, and I was like, oh, what are you working on next? She was like, I'm joining the writers room of Only Murders in the Building. And I happened to say to her, if they ever need any music ever in the series, like, sign us up. We're obsessed with the show. Justin and I both love Only Murders. It's my favorite television show. I was like, you know, whatever it is, a ditty, a jingle, a commercial, whatever you need, like, sign us up. And then a week later, she called and said, hey, your name was brought up in the writers room because the plot, apparently, of season three is that there's going to go into a fictional musical and your names were brought up as possible people to work on the show. And are you still actually interested in working on it? And we were like, absolutely. We're still obsessed with the show a week later, and what a joy and honor it could be. And we then got excited about the possibility of bringing in some of our favorite musical theater writers that we've always wanted to play in the same sandbox with. And very luckily, folks like Michael, when we asked him if he wanted to work on a song, said yes. I don't think it had as much to do with us or even the show as much as, you know, Meryl Streep being sort of dangled in front of him. But even so, we got to work with one of our favorite musical theater

[Narrator/Host]

writers, and here is Michael R. Jackson.

[Michael R. Jackson]

I was intrigued by the. I'd never done anything like this or written a song for television, and so I was intrigued by it. And. And I was intrigued by collaborating with Benj and Justin because I've never done that kind of collaboration either. So I thought it would be a great opportunity and an interesting challenge. And so I jumped. Jumped into it.

[Benj Pasek]

He's like, I learned a lot. I'd never do it again.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But that was Justin Paul's voice. Just so you know who's talking.

[Benj Pasek]

No, I think.

[Michael R. Jackson]

No, I would definitely do it again.

[Justin Paul]

He's like, just not with you guys.

[Michael R. Jackson]

No, that's. No, I would absolutely do it again with you guys. But I.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Did you learn a lot.

[Michael R. Jackson]

I did learn a lot. Like, watch. Working with the two of you was, like, so educational, and seeing how you vibe off each other, it was, like, really inspiring.

[Justin Paul]

That's really nice of you to say. I feel like someone told you to say that, but I really appreciate it.

[Michael R. Jackson]

No one told me to say it. It was like, a. Legitimately.

[Benj Pasek]

Michael doesn't listen to what people tell

[Michael R. Jackson]

to say, so I truly don't.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Michael, I'm really curious, like, what you knew about this song when it was presented to you. Did you know Meryl Streep was involved? What did you know about the story of, like, the placement?

[Michael R. Jackson]

So because I am not a regular viewer of the show. I mean, I. I knew what it was about, but, like, I wasn't a regular viewer. And I think. I think. Think that I knew that Meryl was involved. Yeah. At the beginning, I think that was mentioned.

[Steve Martin]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Benj Pasek]

Trust us. We mentioned it.

[Justin Paul]

Please.

[Michael R. Jackson]

And you Know, and I. You know, I'm a Meryl fan.

[Maggie Bowles]

We. Us too.

[Justin Paul]

Yeah.

[Michael R. Jackson]

And I. I also thought, like, how. Like, I didn't know how it was going to work. We knew, like, the bare bones of what the moment had to be. I had very little context for it because I hadn't seen the whole series. So, like, I went and watched, I think, the pilot of the show. I watched the end season two, and then we were off to the races.

[Justin Paul]

Okay.

[Benj Pasek]

Every time that we would sort of launch the writing of one of these songs, including working on the for the Sake of a Child with Michael, we would do, like, a kickoff with John Hoffman, basically, because we had worked. Benj and I had gone in for a big, long day session with the writers room on the show and then obviously had done a lot of back and forth with John as they continued to evolve. What this musical, this fictional musical was, what it was about, who the characters were, what their motivations were, all those things that we would need to know to write the song. And then we would download Michael, for instance. But on our. I think. I think we did this on our very first kind of kickoff session of writing. We had John join, and it was a chance for him to explain sort of how he saw the moment. Because obviously, on a show like this, ultimately we're wanting to. We're here to help fulfill, you know, the vision of the showrunners and the writers and the creators. So we wanted to download everything from him. It was our chance to ask a million questions.

[Justin Paul]

Would she say this?

[Benj Pasek]

Would she say that? What's the dynamic between these two? So we sort of had that big kickoff with John, and then it was, okay, now off to the races. Away we go, the three of us just coming up with what sort of insane, you know, ridiculous, you know, number we could come up with with this detective killer father figure and the. The fearsome nanny.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I'm curious, what does Death Rattle Dazzle mean to you? Like, what is. What is the premise of that. Of that play?

[Justin Paul]

What's amazing is that, you know, despite what is shown on the show, it's very thoroughly thought out in the writer's room. So, like, we actually have an entire bible of the entire plot of Death Rattle Dazzle. We know, like, every character introduced how the songs function, like, what the payoffs are. So, you know, it's really funny because when you watch the TV show, you're like, is there a full plot? Like, has anyone actually done the work to, like, know what this is? But I will tell you that John Hoffman and His amazing team of writers created an entire beginning to middle, you know, song, spotted musical, and all of it makes logical sense within the. Within the realm of the show, within the logic of the show. So, yeah, I mean, for us, you know, it very lovingly plays off of some of our. I would say some of Broadway's not as bright, you know, moments where you're really trying to figure out how to mine an existing property and turn it into a musical and has a very specific style that's sort of on the border of. I don't know how I would describe it.

[Benj Pasek]

Like, taking larger than life.

[Justin Paul]

Larger than life. A little campy, taking itself very seriously

[Michael R. Jackson]

and, you know, melodramatic.

[Justin Paul]

Yeah, very melodramatic, exactly. But I think, you know, I think that to do so requires. And this is what Michael, I think, is also talking about, not just with the show, but the tone of the musical within the show is really understanding what is the tone that we're trying to achieve with it, which, you know, we need to write it seriously with an element of craft and with an element of sincerity. And also know that we're making fun of a form, but also honoring a form at the same time. And so really, just, like, just knowing, like, what the parameters of the plot are, but also the tone of the musical. What Oliver Putnam's intention in writing that musical is and also what the show's intention of conveying that musical is, are all sort of part of the mix of what we're trying to consider as we're beating it out.

[Benj Pasek]

Yeah, I think our goal was, like, for people to watch it and be like, is this insane or is this really good? Or is it kind of both? You know, Like, I think both. That was the fun for us, was making something that was like, I think this is good, but this is also bonkers, you know?

[Maggie Bowles]

Yes, I think you achieved that. Yeah, I think the music is fantastic. So I. And also completely bonkers.

[Narrator/Host]

Bizarre.

[Benj Pasek]

Right. So I will always cherish the craze in your gaze is bone chilling. It's clear you've been serial killing, like, and the ridiculous. But she takes it very seriously, you know, like. But, like, you know, But I mean, I think to us, ultimately, we were trying to, like, that is, to some extent, a encapsulation of the tone of the show. I mean, the tone is. Of this show is a bit theatrical, and it's a bit heightened and it's a bit larger than life, but it also is about murders, and there are serious plot points. And I think that's why it's so enchanting. I think that's why it has so many fans. That's why we love it, is because you feel like you're in this a little bit other world, but also very much on the Upper west side of Manhattan at the same time. And there are people like this kind of. And we love that tone and hope to capture it in the writing.

[Justin Paul]

And Broadway also has its fair share of really absurd ideas. You know, I mean even the shows that the folks on this call have. Have written, you know, when you would present them on paper, people would have said that's an insanity for raw musical. And. And I think that when you look at some of the. The shows, particularly from the 90s or some of the references that we were using, they really are about some absurd things, whether it's vampires or whether it's crazy adaptations or whatever it might be. So like the fact that this plot could possibly be turned into a musical is not beyond the realm of Broadway possibility. And that. That's the fun of really towing the line.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about some of the inspirations for the song for the Sake of a Child and the collaborative songwriting process.

[Narrator/Host]

Welcome back. We're talking with the award winning musical geniuses, Michael R. Jackson, Justin Paul and Benj Pasek.

[Ryan Tillotson]

What were some of the references, let's say in.

[Maggie Bowles]

If there were any in for the Sake of a Child.

[Justin Paul]

What would you guys say? I mean the more of musicals like. I would say, like, I feel like Lestat was definitely like something that Scarlett Pimpernel. Some Frank Dialhorn work for sure.

[Maggie Bowles]

I was in the Scarlet Pimpernel in high school.

[Benj Pasek]

Wow.

[Steve Martin]

Is that.

[Benj Pasek]

Which one has. If someone like you and someone. That's Jekyll and Hyde. Oh, Jekyll and Hyde. I mean, you know what I mean? Yeah, Jekyll and. Yeah, it's those. There was that crop of musicals in the 90s or early 2000s that were just like intense and kind of high drama and a bit melodrama. And we loved. I mean those were. We sung those songs in college, I guess musical theater students. Like, we loved them but like it was fun to, you know, pay a bit of an homage to those musicals in the writing of this number.

[Meryl Streep]

What Nanny keeps her patience under pressure.

[Steve Martin]

You'll never stop me Nanny.

[Meryl Streep]

Forceful and resourceful as can be.

[Maggie Bowles]

No matter what you're dead life that's going on.

[Meryl Streep]

She keeps the goddamn house in order.

[Steve Martin]

I'm gonna get those kids.

[Meryl Streep]

Then you'll have to go through me.

[Benj Pasek]

I mean, it's a very lucky thing as a writer, when we didn't know who was gonna ultimately be singing it. We didn't know if it was gonna be mostly Paul or mostly Martin Short or a combination of the two. And I think in the cut on the show, in the episode itself, it's mostly Paul, but there is a. There's a whole Marty version, too. So we were kind of like, this is gonna be great either way. And I think for Marty, hearing him, it's like the first couple of lines he recorded, we were just dying, like, on the floor, laughing hysterically. So that was a thrilling experience. And then Paul, I think, was a surprise in that, like. I think, like, everyone was like, I wasn't surprised.

[Michael R. Jackson]

As I said, the day that we recorded. Like, I knew.

[Benj Pasek]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is funny, actually. So, like, basically, we kept being told, like, I hear Paul sings. I'm told Paul sings. Like, that's kind of what it was. But everyone was just, like, operating on this, like, hearsay that Paul Rudd sings. And Michael was like, he's gonna be great. He's gonna be great. We're like, how do you know? He's like, I just know.

[Justin Paul]

Wait, how did you know that, Michael?

[Michael R. Jackson]

I just am like a whisperer in that way. Like, I. I just can tell

[Benj Pasek]

who's

[Michael R. Jackson]

got it and who doesn't.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And you just knew?

[Benj Pasek]

Well, let me tell you, when Paul Rudd opened his freaking mouth, and within the first 30 minutes of the session, we were like, you're gonna get. Like, you're gonna be. You have to figure out how you're gonna, like, navigate being approached to be in every musical now. Because if that into the woods revival was still running, they would be calling your agents so fast.

[Steve Martin]

Those kids are mine and you can't stand in the way.

[Meryl Streep]

Over my dead body

[Narrator/Host]

Till my last

[Steve Martin]

breath I take I'll stay steadfast for the. Save all time.

[Meryl Streep]

You never will defeat me for a

[Steve Martin]

child to death I dare to go.

[Michael R. Jackson]

Oh, my God. He would be a success. A good baker, right?

[Benj Pasek]

I know. So I was like, dude, get ready. He. Because he, like, has a. He never uses it. He never does this, but, like, he's. He just, like, seamlessly slipped into being in a melodramatic musical with his voice that is operatic at times and whatever. Like, really so talented. So that was a lovely. You know, we knew Marty would be great, and yet he still floored us. We didn't know Michael knew, but the two of us didn't know about Paul. And he was just an incredible, delightful surprise.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So what is like the process of you three working together to just put together this song, you know. So like you guys had. Were you all there on this brainstorm with John and then. And then Michael, you go off and just present something or like, how does that work?

[Michael R. Jackson]

No, we all were like, we would, you know, we would talk to John, but like, then, you know, the three of us would. We were all on zoom. Cause I was like in Wyoming at the time when a lot of the work was done before I came back to New York. And we would just sort of get on Zoom together and we would. We like had a Google Doc and. And we would just sort of like. We just sort of like just hacked into it, like bit by bit.

[Benj Pasek]

Yeah, it was really like just kind of grinding it out altogether like this, except without your square. And actually there were also times, I think once Michael was back in New York, we were then in California. So we were doing. We would be like early mornings, like

[Justin Paul]

6:37am EPIC 6:00am the Beverly Hills Hotel.

[Benj Pasek]

No, but there's a piano at the bar, which is, you know, fortunately not open at 7am so they would let me go into the bar and at the like cocktail lounge piano and sit. We'd be on zoom, just kind of like working it out. And sometimes we go away and do a little work on our own. They come back together. But a lot of it was written like in real time, the three of us, you know, on a. On a zoom together, you know. And the process was very joyful because, you know, it was like, how do we find all this delicious language? You know, what's a nanny? She's a ninny.

[Ryan Tillotson]

She's like.

[Benj Pasek]

It was all a bit so like it was the fun one upmanship of like, what who can find the kookiest thing that still makes sense and let you know.

[Michael R. Jackson]

And it was like truly collaborative, which again, like, just why I say, like, you know, I really learned a lot watching Justin and Benj, how they collaborate. Because I normally with all my collaborators, I'm like, I go away, they go away, we come back. And so like sitting in a room together and truly like figuring it out, like, was like, I feel like I picked up a new skill working with these two. And the song itself was also like a lot of fun. It was also a kind of song that I never would have written on my own. You know what I mean? Like, I never would have. I never, like, I never think about like writing Frank Wildhorn esque Song like, that's not. I like those songs, but I never would think to do that. And so it was, like, cool to. To create something that was so unlike what I would do by myself, which is what is the. One of the pleasures of collaborating with other people.

[Benj Pasek]

And there was also such mutual respect and trust in this trio that like, everyone felt very free to say, yeah, I don't know, whatever. Like, you know, sometimes in certain collaborations you're navigating, like, ego, ego or navigating. I don't want to. I don't want them to feel bad that I don't like their idea. This was just a very easy. Because we all love each other's work and work ethic so much that I think it was easy.

[Justin Paul]

Yeah, we've. We've known each other for a hot minute now, so like, also just being like, no, we can do better, like, that's not good enough. We just felt very, very safe to do that. And just. Just to add some reciprocity to the mix goes without saying. We're such huge fans of Michael's and just like, getting to watch him work was a thrill for us too. And picking up on, like, the way that his mind works and ideas that he would pitch and why and where it would come from or what would rub him the wrong way or what felt right to him, you know, it's a learning process for us in the same way. And it's such a thrill to get to sort of hack somebody else that you respects mind for a little bit and have them sprinkle their fairy dust on something. So it was really, really wonderful for us and we hope that we can recruit him into our cult of musical theater writing collaborations for many more times in the future.

[Michael R. Jackson]

Yes, please.

[Narrator/Host]

Okay, time for another quick break, but we'll be back soon for more with Pasc and Paul to talk about all of the other amazing stuff songs in

[Meryl Streep]

the show for the sake of a Child.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So when you're traveling, Justin, and there's not a piano at the hotel, you travel around with like a little MIDI keyboard or something.

[Maggie Bowles]

I think he's gonna get it for listeners.

[Michael R. Jackson]

He's.

[Justin Paul]

He's out of the screen right now.

[Benj Pasek]

Wait, where did it go?

[Steve Martin]

Where did it go? Where did.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, God.

[Benj Pasek]

Okay. It's still in my bag for my last trip. Okay.

[Maggie Bowles]

Ok. Open the suitcase. Listening suitcase.

[Ryan Tillotson]

There it is. Oh, yeah, yeah, I love that. Like a little Casio or something.

[Benj Pasek]

Yeah, basically little key station. So, yes, I travel with this in the event that there's not a piano to bomb off of.

[Michael R. Jackson]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Host]

Welcome back. We're continuing our conversation with Benj Pasek and Justin Paul. Michael R. Jackson went on his merry way. He had to step off. He's a busy guy. But now we talk through all the remaining three songs from Death Rattle Dazzle, starting with Creatures of the Night.

[Justin Paul]

That's the opening number. That is. That intros you to your world.

[Benj Pasek]

I don't know, it's scene setting, it's world setting. It's. Welcome to the evening you're about to have. This is going to be insane.

[Justin Paul]

There's Danny, there's a constable. They're up.

[Benj Pasek]

We take, we take, we take ourselves pretty seriously. You know, like that's, that's what that song is doing.

[Maggie Bowles]

I was wondering, like, in the context of the music, if the Crab Men ever make another appearance.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's a great question.

[Maggie Bowles]

In the rest of, like, is that their ensemble costume? That they're just always a crab man?

[Justin Paul]

Wait for season four, Maggie.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It's more Crab Men.

[Maggie Bowles]

It's the LA opening of.

[Benj Pasek]

We can't say for sure. We can't say for sure. But you know, any good storytellers would not just introduce those Crab Men and leave. Like you can't introduce and just leave them out to drive. They need a through line, you know what I mean? So they gotta come. That song is like a little bit of like, I think a sleeper in this season, but like, it is nuts and like I'm thrilled by what they did with it, you know, like we can do our part and hopefully give them a song, a good song to work with. But a lot of the artistry comes from what they're able to do with it on screen. And this is a dynamite team who really knocked it out. Costumes, scenery. Walking into the United palace of the first. First time and seeing that set on stage, we were like, are you kidding? This is like a full out Broadway musical. So it's very thrilling.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It was very satisfying to see.

[Maggie Bowles]

But the best part about it, I think is seeing Martin Short perform.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's his reveal.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, that is his reveal.

[Steve Martin]

At the edge of the world in the dead of the night A lighthouse looms over the ocean and a body lies quite curl Such a sinister sight Guts and gore on the shore Nova Scotian with that blood curdling cry or the innocent sigh of a child well, it rattles your soul as the dark takes control it's enough to drive you wild when you're a creature of the night all unknown

[Narrator/Host]

the other.

[Maggie Bowles]

I mean, I want, I keep wanting to say, like my other Favorite song, but that's, like, every song, so look for the light. The nanny's lullaby is so beautiful. And hearing Meryl Streep sing it is also, just, like, mind blowing. And we know that Sara Bareilles was a. Was a co writer on that song. Can you tell us about that songwriting process and how you know Sara Bareilles.

[Justin Paul]

The Broadway community is really a small and mighty community, so it really is. It really is. There's just a handful of folks that do this, and you get to know them, and I think there's a lot of mutual respect and love among musical theater writers. And, you know, it's just. It's not. It really. It stretches between, like, you know, 6th Avenue and 8th Avenue, between 42nd street and 53rd, and that's Broadway, essentially. So it's just not a very big area. And there's, you know, there's just there. You kind of know your contemporaries and collaborators and all of that. So Sarah has been somebody who, especially since she's entered the Broadway space. Like, I first remember seeing her play Ariel at the Hollywood bowl, and she was amazing. And then, you know, she seamlessly, you know, came in to sort of join the Broadway community. She wrote the opening for the Tonys, obviously. Waitress, then into the Woods. Like, she really is a Broadway. A real mainstay on Broadway now. And so getting to know her through that context. And we're also just enormous fans of, like, pop star Sara Bareilles.

[Benj Pasek]

Huge fans of her. Yeah. She sang a song of ours from the Greatest Showman. I mean, a few years ago, recorded that. But, like, our goal, which was amazing, but, like, we always hoped that we'd get to maybe write something with her. Like, we were like, that would be such a cool collaboration. And this. We found out about this and came on board. We were like. They were like, there's this. There's this, like, beautiful, kind of melancholy lullaby moment, maybe for the. For the nanny character played by Meryl Streep. We were like, I bet you if we called Sara Bareilles and said, hey, do you want to write a song with us for only Mer? I think we texted her. We like, do you love only mergers? Like, out of the blue? We're like, do you love Only Emergency in the Building? She's like, yes. We're like, do you love Meryl Streep? She's like, yes. We're like, how about that collaboration? She was like, okay. I mean, that was a pitch for you.

[Ian Eisendrath]

We're very.

[Benj Pasek]

Exactly. We're very lucky that we get to Dangle those carrots of. Do you love only Murders in the Building? Do you love Meryl Streep? If so, have I got the song collaboration for you? And so she's just a gem of a person, and we've been friendly, as Ben said, for a long time, but we got to actually collaborate on the song. She was, at least at the time, living on the Upper west, and so were we. So, like, we all just got together here at my studio and wrote a lot of it in the room together in real time. And, you know, again, it was just a lot of joy and a lot of mutual love and admiration and respect and just a. Just a great collaboration.

[Justin Paul]

Yeah. And I'll say with all of these songs where we had. Where we got to work with, you know, friends and colleagues and musical heroes of ours, it was all in the room together, whether that be physically or just in a zoom room too. So it really was just piecing together these songs in real time with folks. And you know that that happens sometimes. Writing can be a very lonely process.

[Benj Pasek]

Solitary.

[Justin Paul]

Yeah, very solitary. And so the idea of just sort of putting it together with people and getting to explore different collaborations also added a sort of freshness and excitement for us, too.

[Maggie Bowles]

When I was listening to the Nanny's Lullaby, which got stuck in my head constantly after seeing the episode, it also made me remember I was also in production of Annie get yout Gun in high school. It reminded me of the Moonshine Lullaby,

[Narrator/Host]

even though when I, like, listen to

[Maggie Bowles]

the Moonshine Lullaby again, I was like, I don't actually hear it, but it reminds me of my memory of the Moonshine Lullaby, which is that it's this, like, beautiful, like, surprisingly beautiful song in a otherwise pretty campy place.

[Benj Pasek]

You're right, you're right, you're right. And it's a very kind of, like, classic sounding thing. And it's. But it's got, like, a little surprising, even harmonically, like, some undertones that you're not expecting. Behind the hill. Like, it's so counter sheep. I must need to sleep. Right. It's a beautiful song. You're right. And like, look, it's interesting you bring it up because we were all sort of like, is it okay that this is going to be like, we want to write a beautiful song and we want to. And John was like, yes, that's okay. Like, again, like, we keep using the show as our true north, you know, our north star on. What can we do Tonally, the show, especially in this season, like, the show can be zany. The show can be theatrical. It can also be dark or melancholy or contemplative. You know, like this season dealing with grief and dealing with loss and things while also being hysterical. And like, that is the range of this show. That's the world that they've created. And so we were sort of like, they do it in the show. So let's. I think we can do it in the deathrattle dazzle too. We can have the zany moment of the Pattersong but also write this somewhat melancholy, a little bit mysterious ballad for. For Meryl's character and that can live alongside the rest of it. And John was. John Hoffman was so encouraging and us going for that and. But he also helped us push it even a little bit more dark and surprising. Even in. In her. The way she kind of at the beginning of the song is like, Hush, little one. It's like sort of draws you in. That was a lot of John's influence as well on Meryl's performance.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, you had to write a showstopper,

[Benj Pasek]

you know, I mean, I mean, like, it was like, this needs to change the atmosphere in the room and make them go, okay, this is a thing. So we're like, we have to do a decent job on this.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Justin Paul]

The other thing to say is that there's a. It's a really fun riddle to try to solve, which is, you know, we're trying to give a misdirect to the audience that we're supposed to follow Dickie. And so when then, you know, you go back and you listen. It's. Yes, it's within the context of the show. It's the nanny singing to three triplets. But then it's also a mother singing to a long lost son and trying to have both of those things play simultaneously within the same song is part of the riddle that you're trying to solve. So when we're sitting down with Sarah and we're like, how do we. Okay, how do we make sure that if just the context of this was Meryl Streep's character is singing to the, you know, Dicky character and the long lost, you know, son and the promise that I've always been watching you from afar and I spent the last 30 years, you know, having you in my life, but, you know, and observing you, that can totally play. And then it can also play if you're talking about triplets. And then it also plays for the just dramatic function of we need a song that's going to convince them to do the musical. So you're trying to like, operate at three, three sort of levels at the same time and be like, how. How does, like, one thing work for all of those with, like, a metaphor of, you know, in the context of Nova Scotia and whatever. So, like, all of that just enters into the sort of stew, and that becomes a really fun sort of puzzle to solve collaboratively.

[Meryl Streep]

Off little one Chase the wind on the waves Adventure is calling so go and be brave but if you get lost as you're tossed in the dark of the sea look for me

[Michael R. Jackson]

I

[Meryl Streep]

will wait at the shore for you I will weather each storm Standing by till safe you return from the night. My love is a lighthouse and you

[Ryan Tillotson]

see it so well. I feel like in. In episode eight, when Meryl is singing for the sake of a child, actually, you know, and she then confesses to having done it, and it's. But I think that's a brilliant thing.

[Benj Pasek]

Yeah.

[Justin Paul]

Well, that lyric comes about because we're like, okay, in episode eight, we. She, the Meryl Streep character, you know, Loretta needs to be singing that as Loretta to Dickie, but also needs to make sense within the context of the show. So, like, that. That information is really, really fun to play out with the John Hoffman and then really making sure that whatever our titles are, whatever our song moments are working on those multiple levels.

[Benj Pasek]

Yeah. I mean, the song really plays in episode 10, for the sake of a Child, and it's in the show there. Right. But you're seeing a rehearsal in eight. But we kind of wrote it more. We had to more write it with eight in mind because it was decided as a collaboration among the group. This is what's going to be sung in the moment where she decides, I'm going to turn myself in for the sake of my. What we find out my son. Right. So it was like, we really had to write the lyrics to function on that level, even though it's like, okay, but let's always be making sure that it makes sense in the context of triplets and the nanny and in the. With the detective. But, like, we're really writing it for Loretta, talking about Dickie, you know, so that was the challenge, but the great fun of it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. That moment is so beautiful.

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

And we heard that Meryl had to do that part live since she had to speak, you know, she had to stop singing and speak. So that must have been really cool, too.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, my God.

[Justin Paul]

Wait, there was. What was the moment where, like, we thought that there was something wrong each time. And, like, have you guys heard this? I think Steve Martin talked about it on something. But like, she. She kept being like, wait. Like it was something about like the sheet music not being ready.

[Meryl Streep]

A nanny's only duties to the children keep them swaddled in the safety of her care. With a fierce and iron will she would fight and she would kill. If she's poked, she'll be provoked. I like, I'm so sorry, I can't hear the rhythm. Can I just have the piano? When they orchestra, I can't hear the rhythm.

[Ian Eisendrath]

And then I'll come in on the.

[Justin Paul]

But every time that she did it. Because Meryl Streep is Meryl Streep, like, everyone in the theater thought that.

[Benj Pasek]

She just couldn't tell if, like Meryl was like, I can't hear.

[Justin Paul]

And it was like actually just the line. But it was imbued with such authenticity that we thought that Meryl Streep just wasn't ready yet. You know what I mean? And it happened like four, four times. And she's like, no, guys. Like, that's the line.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I know this moment.

[Ian Eisendrath]

Actress.

[Justin Paul]

Sorry.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, that's good.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's so funny. Let's. Let's talk quickly about the Pickwick Triplets, because in preparation for this interview, we got a list of all of the songs with their credits and also the lyrics. And I was like, thank God I have finally have the lyrics to the

[Ryan Tillotson]

Pickwick Triplets because singing it non stop,

[Maggie Bowles]

I need to know them all. It's a like an itch. I need to scratch in my brain to know all of the lyrics.

[Benj Pasek]

That's funny.

[Justin Paul]

Oh my God.

[Maggie Bowles]

Can you tell us about that song? And also if you have any favorite lines.

[Justin Paul]

Well, just to start, we collaborated on that with Mark Shaiman and Scott Whitman, who we love, love, love so much. And we actually. Our first TV job was to write on Smash and we wrote some of the Hit List musical and they wrote some of the. Or they wrote all of the Bombshell music.

[Michael R. Jackson]

And.

[Justin Paul]

And they.

[Benj Pasek]

I think they had to like, approve us being part of it. So like, they, in a way, like, sanctioned our very first TV job.

[Justin Paul]

Exactly. So it was very, like, very cool for us to be like, do you guys want to come on and collaborate on a song on this? And they're so. They have such authority with, you know, these kinds of songs. Pastiche and Pattersongs and such dexterity in their lyric writing. And just they're so great.

[Steve Martin]

Which of the big quick triplets did it? Who of the crew would commit this crime? My little brat Make a Bonnie goes flat. It's a story Pretty gory for a nursery rhyme. Which of the Pickwick triplets did it? Which of the spawn had the brawn? Two killed? Will a baby get tried for that trust sign? Coo choo coo choo coo hungry you or you or you could admit it so quick as a whip got a pigwitch Pinkwick triple did it.

[Justin Paul]

So this. That was a really good, really fun collaboration. And again, sitting in the room with them and, like, the absurdity of, you know, Steve Martin's character within the musical accusing essentially three triplets of murder, we really got to really go crazy. And the fact. I mean, the running joke of him not being. Having command on the lyrics. So it forced us to be like, how do we make this as alliterative as possible, as tongue twisty as possible? And it really gave permission to come up with some really zany ideas that we would have never been pushed into writing if it had been up to our own druthers.

[Benj Pasek]

And I think, like, I mean, there was a whole day or at least half a day that I feel like we all sat in their studio here in the city just coming up with what are our favorite couplets that are combinations of, like, murder and babies, you know what I mean? Like, brat and splat. Cursory nursery. Like, it was just like. And that was just like. Again, it was like. It was in the best way. This up, this competition one not mentioned, but, like, the competition was, how can we create the best song? So it was like, what about this? And then it was like, no, no. What if you add this and, like, add another interior rhyme there it was really just all of us having fun of, like, how much could we make the group laugh? You know what I mean? How much could we make everyone like,

[Ian Eisendrath]

you know what I mean?

[Benj Pasek]

And the more zany and joyful it

[Justin Paul]

got, it felt like four boys in a room, like, playing Legos, where you were just like, I can build a tower higher. My tower's higher. What about this tower being higher?

[Benj Pasek]

Wait, what if we added this? Oh, my God, let's connect them. It really was that energy of just like, look, this is a great setup. We have this Steve Martin singing a song, deciding which of three triplets to accuse of, you know, murdering their mother. What is it? Will a baby get tried for matricide? I remember that line, by the way. That was an updated lyric.

[Justin Paul]

It was, would a baby get fried for matricide?

[Benj Pasek]

Steve Martin. Steve Martin, like, rightfully was like, I don't really want to picture a child in the electric chair.

[Maggie Bowles]

I have a line and you have found it.

[Justin Paul]

Yeah, exactly.

[Benj Pasek]

He was like, not saying that. Yeah.

[Justin Paul]

We were like, wow, we pushed you over the edge.

[Steve Martin]

Or coochie coochie coo. What if none of it is true? Has my inspection been too cursory? Should I look outside this nursery? What if none of the pick quick drink. Let's get it. Who have had a menacing motive and hit it.

[Benj Pasek]

Who, who, who?

[Steve Martin]

Well, I pick you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I'm curious about recording process. Are you there for all the recording? What, are you on set a lot?

[Benj Pasek]

Yeah, you know, it's really great. They have such a wonderful setup. I mean, TV is. TVs. When it's up and running and the operation is kind of like doing its thing, it's really beautiful and seamless. And so they. It was really cool. They really. Production really embraced that this was a musical this season and we needed to make that all work. And so they basically built a little recording studio on site where the show films. And so again, sort of underlined the, like, lovely communal, almost camp, like, experience that this group has making this show. So they took a room that was literally on the same hall as the dressing rooms in the green room of the cast, whatever, and they constructed it a little recording studio and so right over in Long Island City. And so we would be there pretty much for every single recording session for all the actors, and they would come into each other's sessions and sit down and encourage each other. And Marty would come in and crack jokes about Steve while he was recording and, you know, give him fake notes. And it was just. It was exactly what you would kind of hope it would be. And then they just walked downstairs to set. So we got to be on set for the filming a lot of the musical numbers as well. And then of course, up at the United palace in Washington Heights. So, yeah, we got to be around and got to interact with the actors who were also, you know, everyone was there with the right intent, which was just to make the best, most fun, most zany, you know, song moments we could. And, you know, it's season three. So I think it was fun that everyone got to mix it up and, like, do something totally wild and different. And it was just a lovely experience, top to bottom.

[Ryan Tillotson]

In a minute, we'll talk to Ian Eisendrath. He's the executive music producer on Only Murders this season.

[Narrator/Host]

He's also Grammy nominated. No big deal.

[Ryan Tillotson]

No big deal.

[John Hoffman]

Ian Eisendrath. I mean, he's a wizard and a master.

[Narrator/Host]

You know that voice by now. That's showrunner co Creator John Hoffman.

[John Hoffman]

And he saved our butts. And he had great foresight on how to shoot and how to play that, all of that. So that we could have live voice and record recorded voice at the same. But editing having our greatest flexibility. So you get the very, very best version, which keeps you right in the room and makes you feel like. Which he's doing. He is really, really, really doing this thing.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I can't wait to ask him a bunch of technical questions.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah, yeah, he's your guy for that.

[Narrator/Host]

After the break, Ryan nerds out with Ian Eisendrath and Pascal and Paul, come back for some final thoughts.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Welcome back. Ian Eisendrath has worked on Big stuff on Broadway and in film for years. Still, only Murders was a special one. Here's Ian.

[Ian Eisendrath]

I mean, there were just a lot of pinch me moments, sort of like in the middle of working on Steve's song and being like, you forget. You're all in the sandbox just playing. And they're like, oh, my gosh, this is the person that I grew up watching. And my mom loves Steve Martin. And we would watch all of his movies as they came out or just watching them at home growing up. And with Meryl, I think just so inspired by her commitment and intense commitment to sort of truth, honesty, and transparency in her performance. And just seeing how she's always calibrating and she's always. She won't do something that is inauthentic. And I just. I was so inspired by that. And, you know, back to Steve, he also has, you know, a million and one ideas, and it just gave us so much to play with. And then Marty is. There's no experience like Marty. Like, he's just unreal. Like, he would. He would come into his sessions and we'd be laughing the whole time. They'd move really fast and, like, constantly take, you know, right and left turns. Yeah, he keeps giving us things. There's like, I can't believe he just did that. And then he's gone. And you're like, what just happened? Like, that was an experience like I'll never have again.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Did anyone surprise you with their singing capabilities?

[Ian Eisendrath]

Oh, Brad. Oh, my gosh. What?

[Justin Paul]

Like, he.

[Ian Eisendrath]

He came in, he could only have, like a day to record, and I never heard him sing. He's like, ian, you know, remember, I don't sing. And I was like, had low expectations based on, you know, what he said about himself. And. And then he opens up his mouth and he's like, what?

[Steve Martin]

And.

[Ian Eisendrath]

And of course, like, he totally gets what we're doing and the sort of spoofy parody nature of everything and just makes choices and like we were all totally floored.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, he's amazing.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love it, I love it. I'm really curious about the, just that process of recording. So we've talked to John multiple times. We just talked to Pasek and Paul

[Narrator/Host]

and Michael R. Jackson.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And Michael R. Jackson. Yeah. I guess I've heard that there's a little studio that you guys built on set or around the stage somewhere like that, right?

[Ian Eisendrath]

Yeah, we actually, Derek Lee, who is our mixer engineer, he built quite a lovely studio exactly where they were shooting. So they gave us one of the larger offices and he worked with the incredible production team and they put together a really comfortable and state of the art room for us to work in with all the equipment we needed. And because it's TV in film, you can sort of say, okay, we're going to take two to three weeks and everyone's going to focus on pre records because it's tv. They were shooting from the day one and we were recording in pockets. So it was really, really nice to have this room where it's like, okay, Steve has downtime for three hours. He's gonna duck into the studio and we're gonna record and oh, he has to leave because they need him on set. And I think I just enjoyed sort of the chaotic adventure of it all. And it was chaos in the best way. Like it was the only Murders production team led by Kristen Bernstein is just incredible. Like I was just blown away by their ability to juggle and handle all of this and to welcome a whole new department into what is already a really tight, fast paced machine. And they really did create the space for us to do the kind of work we love to do. That was my one fear. Going in is like, oh, we're just not going to have time. This is going to be sort of, we're gonna have to cut corners. And I struggle with that. Like I'm not, I'm not great at letting go of things like that. And so the fact that they really listened to what we knew we needed to make this excellent and to treat this as if we were doing a film and, or, you know, highest quality television of course, which is what it is. And not let the music just be substandard, which I think would have been easy to do because this show is so big and the music is not. It has moments of being a musical, but it's not as if it was planned for this show to be a big musical. So it was sort of budgeted and scheduled in many ways as if music was not part of it. Then the idea of having an Oliver Putnam musical came into the picture and that team did such a brilliant job at figuring out how do we make this work and bring in these high caliber artists and also support the cast that had challenging songs to learn, rehearse, record and then perform on camera.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. So once you have this prerecord, which is so interesting to hear that it was happening around the same time and in pieces, I guess even you are using that primarily on set when they're actually performing the song and I hear it's like a mixture and I'm just curious of vocals. Yeah, I'm really curious about that.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Ian Eisendrath]

So you know, our pre recording process is, I bet we spent six to ten hours with each actor on each song. And you know, every, every actor works differently. We want to figure out what is the best possible environment and situation and modality for each actor that will give their best work. So no session is the same, but either. We're recording many, many takes of the whole song and every time there's a take we're saying, okay, this time let's really focus on this. Let's focus on this. Let's make sure this note is correct, this rhythm is correct. Let's think about what's happening on camera and make sure that we're connecting to that action so that it sounds like something that you would actually sing and say in that situation. And you end up with many, many takes. And one of my great joys is combing through those takes and selecting, cobbling together a performance. And of course it was a plethora of riches with each of these actors and we will end up putting together what is sort of our dream version of how the song might sound. And then once comps are put together, I share them with Benj and Justin. Songwriters, you know, Benjamin, Justin are highly involved in the producing side of things and have incredible thoughts and opinions. And we spend a while going back and forth and sort of finding this is the sort of golden version of this song. And then we bring in our orchestrator, August Ericsman, who then creates a MIDI so like a mock up orchestration around the song so we really understand, hear and feel the vibe of what the instrumental track is going to be. We send that to the cast. They spend a lot of time with that and what they're doing is they're spending time trying to figure out how do I sort of match what was put on the pre Record so learning the timing and the sync so that the lips and the voice and the breath are all moving. But then once we get to set, we keep the set quiet so everyone's hearing everything in their ears and we're recording them live, doing every single song. And the reason we have the prerecord really is that's our grid, meaning the words happen at the same time from shot to shot, which is essential for many reasons. It means that once we have the recording of the live audio with our pre record, the production audio with our prerecord and picture in front of us, we can go through syllable by syllable, word by word, breath by breath, and be like, what is the best and most honest to support what we're seeing? So each of these songs are like these patchwork quilts cobbled together. I think we probably ended up in the end 50% live. 50% from the pre record. You'll tend to always use live for anything that's sort of conversational and free and speech like. And then for everything else, it's really a toss up of what sounded best. And, you know, we had. Again, I cannot give enough credit to Derek Lee, who is our mixer engineer, who is the master at putting all that together, as well as our music editor, Michal Lieberman, who then really works with everything we have, syncing it to what we're seeing on screen. And it's just this endless puzzle that I find so challenging because you're just like, oh, I loved the way it sounded there, but that isn't real anymore. So, okay, how are we gonna do this? But it's also just so delightful because when you get it, you really feel it. Like, I'm really.

[Justin Paul]

Yeah.

[Ian Eisendrath]

I'm really, really proud of Meryl's look for the Light and just that that has a real mixture of elements. Same thing with Steve's Pickwick and Paul and Meryl in For the Sake of the Child and same thing with Marty in Creatures of the Night. There's some things, you know, he just does unrepeatable things.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Ian Eisendrath]

That he's not going to repeat from performance to performance. So just capturing those and pulling them in, it's a joy that's.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, it's so. It's such a fascinating thing. I would assume that the mics you're using when you record your. Those pre records and the mics you're using live are different and somehow blend is.

[Ian Eisendrath]

Yeah, we actually record with three mics in all situations that are the same mics. So that's pretty much. Yeah. However, the space is different.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Right, of course.

[Ian Eisendrath]

Right, yeah. So it doesn't. And you can't always get all three mics close to them when you're shooting. So that is the challenge. You know, they all wear a lapel as often as possible. There's a boom operator who's holding a boom near them. And then sometimes there's a shotgun mic, you know, just to sort of get the space in the room. And then we do all of that in the studio plus a great studio mic. And so, you know, it's often a transition where you start with the film mics and sort of progress into the studio mic.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It's less noticeable like that. Yeah, yeah.

[Narrator/Host]

So it can kind of slide into that.

[Benj Pasek]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, very, very clever. Yeah. When we talked to two of the editors, Peyton and Shelley, they were saying that there was like having to slow down for a single syllable, you know,

[Narrator/Host]

and thinking, yeah, like speed up a little. Slow down for Perfect Match.

[Ian Eisendrath]

Yeah, I mean, it was really. Yeah, it's a really tricky thing to do because, like, I really believe audiences always know when something no longer feels real and like it's happening. And I think that's one of the reasons a lot of people maybe feel allergic or distrustful of musicals. So for me, that's a big mission, is like, how close can we get this to something that the audience doesn't have to think about? Oh, is that live? Was that not live and you know all of that?

[Justin Paul]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, you did a great job. I didn't notice any of that.

[Justin Paul]

So.

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah.

[Ian Eisendrath]

Amazing, amazing. Well, it was a whole team. Definitely a team effort.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah, it sounds like it.

[Ian Eisendrath]

I have a full time associate, a partner in crime, Cynthia Meng, who was working alongside me doing all this. Also on set, both she and I are watching everyone sing and giving notes to the actors in real time. And it is, it was such, such a team effort.

[Narrator/Host]

Ian is yet another person that Pask and Paul brought on board when they came to work on Only Murders and they worked together on their award winning Broadway production of A Christmas Story, the Musical and the Will Ferrell and Ryan Reynolds movie Spirited that came out last year.

[Ian Eisendrath]

Justin Paul and Benj Pasek are my people. Very close collaborators, have worked with them on a lot and have known them for decades.

[Benj Pasek]

Yes, Ian. Ian. We work with him on so many of our projects.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's Justin Polligan.

[Benj Pasek]

When we first came on board, we brought him along for the ride and he just flourished and excelled as he always does and created just a really great environment, making the actors feel cozy and supported and taken care of. But it was. I mean, I think everybody had a blast creating a fun, bonkers fictional musical for all of us who are Broadway kids and Broadway people. What a crazy thrill and honor that an entire season of a beloved TV show is basically an homage to Broadway. So how could we not, you know, love being a part of it?

[Justin Paul]

It felt like one of the most joyful work experiences that we've ever been a part of.

[Narrator/Host]

And this is Benj Pasek.

[Justin Paul]

The vibe on set reflected that as well. And also getting to collaborate with so many friends and folks that we just love their work and getting to be in a room with them, creating things along with Jot Hoffman and, and the writers and special shout out to that specific writer, Sass Goldberg, who brought us into this project. She's amazing. And getting to work with her was so fun. We've known her since college, so really the whole experience was just incredibly joy filled. And I think there's also something particularly about being a musical theater writer where often when you're asking audiences to go on the journey of a character breaking into song, that can feel like a real violation for a lot of people. And they really, like, are like, ugh, I don't want to. I'm not on that journey. And we've definitely worked on films where it requires you to sort of accept that people are singing from their emotion and their heart. What's really fun about this is that, you know, we're. We're writing a musical within a show, so it's diegetic in nature and that we get to say, hey, audience, we know that this is silly. And so everybody sort of has permission to be like, hey, we know we're being silly. And also we're taking it seriously. And I think it's a really nice way in for people who, who kind of would make fun of the musical art form anyway, where it really is trying to balance those things. And so for us coming from the Broadway world, but getting to translate that on a TV show, it was a really, really, really fun experience and one that we will not soon forget and just something we're so proud to be a part of.

[Narrator/Host]

Thanks for listening. This week once again, even though the season is over, we are going to be back next week to take talk about the murder of beloved Szaz. And we are hoping that you send us your theory. Send them to only murdererstrawhutmedia.com Tell us who you think killed Szazz. I want to know what the heck happened.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yes, please. I would like to know what you think. I have a feeling, you know, some of our listeners probably have a better idea than we do.

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah, you guys are way smarter than us. So please send us your theories. We'll read through some of them after we talk about SZASZ and then later on next week, we're hopefully, fingers crossed, talking to some of the writers.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, I know, I know. We've got some that have agreed. It'd be really cool to have everybody.

[Maggie Bowles]

Be so cool to have everybody.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It would be fun to see what they see on a weekly basis in the writers room. All those faces and a bunch of ideas and it would be like being

[Narrator/Host]

in the writers room.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Be like being in the writers room. So fingers crossed we can make it happen.

[Narrator/Host]

Thanks so much for listening this week. Come back next week and we love you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Bye.

[Narrator/Host]

Bye.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Only Murders in the Pod is a production of Straw Hut Media. This episode was written, edited and hosted by Maggie Boles and Ryan Tillotson with additional editing and sound mixing by Daniel Ferreira. Motion graphics for promotional materials are by Ali Ahmed with graphic design by Mohamed Samir. Our associate producer is Stephen Markley. Original music by Kyle Merritt. And Only Murders Theme music by Siddhartha Khosla. Big, big thanks to John Hoffman, Javier Salas, Emily Leets, Yasmin Azarakish, Lydia McMahon, Cindy Neighbor, and the rest of the Hulu team. And thanks to Keener and kk. We wish you were with us this season.

[Maggie Bowles]

We miss you. Yeah. The day's starting, right?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Justin Paul]

I'm getting headphones and Justin very aggressively texted.

[Benj Pasek]

There's multiple ways to solve this here, the headphones. You can also just turn those rings off, you know.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay. Yeah.

[Benj Pasek]

It's only been four. It's only been three years of zooms with you now, where your phone, where your computer rings. Every time your phone rings, you know, you can just.

[Justin Paul]

You get.

[Benj Pasek]

Give me five seconds on your computer. I will turn it off for you with pleasure.

[Justin Paul]

Do you guys think this is sort of like a Charles, you know? Yeah, I do.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I do feel that way.

[Justin Paul]

I could see a long term collaboration vibe.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I think Justin is. Is probably the Marty character. Yeah.

[Justin Paul]

Oh, for sure. He's an Oliver Pudno

[Benj Pasek]

Charles.

[Justin Paul]

I'm just trying to make an omelet, learn a patter song and get through the day here.