S3 E3: Grab Your Hankies (Part 1)

Summary

Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast – S3 E3: Grab Your Hankies (Part 1) August 16, 2023 | Host: Michael Cyril Creighton (Howard), Hulu

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the making of "Grab Your Hankies," the third episode of Only Murders in the Building season three. With the writers and actors unable to participate due to external factors, hosts Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillotson instead chat with co-creator/showrunner John Hoffman and director Adam Shankman, alongside production team members. The episode is a revealing insider’s look at new musical ambitions, behind-the-scenes adaptations, unique set moments, and the emotional core that ties the show together.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Recapping Episode 3: Plot and Clues

• Plot Highlights ([01:32] – [03:25]):
  • Kimber’s voiceover starts the episode.
  • Oliver, Howard, and Jonathan try to save "Death Rattle Dazzle" and need a showstopper song in three days.
  • The trio revisits suspects; Kimber seems particularly suspicious.
  • Charles investigates missing hankies, while Mabel and Detective Tobert snoop in Ben’s penthouse, discovering new clues and a possible romantic spark.
  • Ultimately, a nanny’s lullaby, not the bombastic original number, becomes the musical’s emotional anchor.
  • The episode ends with Oliver and Loretta sharing a kiss and Cliff deciding to keep producing the show.

2. The Genesis of the Show’s Musical Element

• Collaborating with Top Talent ([06:40] – [09:08]):
  • John Hoffman excitedly discusses how composers Benj Pasek and Justin Paul (of La La Land) and Sara Bareilles came on board, thanks to a fortuitous connection through writer Sass Goldberg.
  • The creative team discusses how songs must serve the plot and character arcs, involving even more big-name composers like Mark Shaiman, Scott Whitman, and Michael R. Jackson.
  • The arrival of a new, young director of photography (Kyle Volschlager) and a fresh directorial slate is also highlighted.

John Hoffman [07:55]: "For the first song in the season, the Nanny’s Lullaby, 'Look for the Light'... Pasek and Paul, Sara Bareilles... just a great collaboration. Unbelievable."

3. Meryl Streep’s First Encounter with “Look for the Light”

• A Memorable Moment ([10:24] – [11:18]):

  • John shares Meryl’s reaction to hearing "Look for the Light" for the first time in a Zoom session:

    John Hoffman [11:05]: "Meryl on her zoom, literally just toppled out of the frame. She was so blown over by it, bowled over by it. And we all were."

  • He credits Sara Bareilles, Pasek, and Paul for crafting such an emotionally resonant piece.

4. Integrating Music without Making a “Musical Episode”

• Balancing Story and Song ([12:19] – [13:26]):
  • Hoffman explains their conscious choice to let music be organic, meaningful, and embedded in the reality of the show—never breaking the fourth wall for song-and-dance numbers.
  • The Nanny’s Lullaby is performed live on set for authenticity, overseen by musical director Ian Eisendrath.

John Hoffman [15:00]: "That she [Loretta/Meryl] will deliver a song—the direct opposite of [the showstopper Oliver wanted]—but that gets to the heart of the show. That was the brief given to Pasek and Paul and Sarah, and they produced that song which just bowled us all over."

5. On-Set Magic: Recording the Lullaby

• Performance and Process ([15:26] – [17:14]):
  • Most of Meryl’s song was performed live on set, mixed with studio tracks for seamless experience.
  • Meryl embraced the process, enjoying multiple musical takes, and stunned the cast and crew with an emotional, authentic performance.

John Hoffman [16:24]: "That day was magical because it’s Meryl Streep... actors were a mess watching her sing that song over and over... She came to me and said, 'I’m having the best time.'"

6. Arconia Apartment Realities

• [18:15] – [20:01]:
  • Listeners are treated to insider real estate trivia: Ben’s apartment is Amy Schumer’s former place, mentioned as an in-passing joke.
  • Jan and Tim Kono’s former apartments are discussed as problematic listings in a building with a notorious history.

7. Directing Episode 3: Adam Shankman’s Process

• Preparation and Clues ([20:30] – [23:58]):

  • Shankman reveals his high-energy, pre-visualized approach: “I’m definitely not a lazy director... I have it in my head already.”
  • As a guest director, he executes story and clue moments as instructed—sometimes without knowing their narrative significance:

    Adam Shankman [22:44]: "I [tell the showrunners], just tell me on the day if there's a specific shot that you need in order to help episode eight... I don’t need to know why, just tell me how to do it."

• How He Got Involved ([21:52]):

  • He texted Steve Martin after season two, joking about wanting to direct an episode, which directly led to his involvement.

• Musical Sequence Logistics ([24:13] – [26:57]):

  • Shankman red-flagged the lullaby as a major production challenge, requiring more music than originally provided, leading to additional song-writing and careful planning on how to film the final scenes.

Adam Shankman [26:57]: "It was like having this really kind of fun, fun puzzle... so by the time editor Peyton got it, he was going to have a lot to play with."

8. Directing Martin Short’s Vulnerability

• Romance, Drama, and Quiet Intimacy ([29:30] – [32:23]):
  • Shankman describes the piano scene with Oliver and Loretta as a masterclass in vulnerability and chemistry.
  • He praises both Martin Short and Meryl Streep for approaching the scene with subtlety, authenticity, and understated emotion.

Adam Shankman [29:30]: "It was a moment of vulnerability... and also the first very obvious sign that sparks were flying between them."

• Shankman loves directing dramatic scenes:

  Adam Shankman [31:27]: “He [Martin Short] could be a silent movie star because it happens on his face and in his eyes..."

9. Meryl Streep’s On-Set Generosity

• Going Beyond the Call ([35:30] – [38:52]):
  • Shankman recounts how, after wrapping her side of the lullaby scene, Meryl stayed on set in costume, repeatedly singing off-camera for the benefit of her castmates’ performances.

Adam Shankman [36:28]: "She proceeded to sing every take, every camera angle, full-on, out loud, crying. Every single take, not just off-camera, but behind the cameras..."

• The emotional authenticity in everyone’s reactions was real, heightening the impact of the scene.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On getting Pasek & Paul involved:

  "They texted back—we're in." — John Hoffman [12:14]

• On Meryl hearing the lullaby for the first time:

  "Meryl on her zoom literally just toppled out of the frame." — John Hoffman [11:05]

• On live musical performances:

  "We let the actors sing and perform the song in the space while we're shooting... It's a weave of live singing with track recording and the mix, but it's all seamlessly put together." — John Hoffman [15:26]

• On Meryl’s presence:

  "She never even got out of her drag... singing in full out with Ashley, so it was a pretty remarkable thing." — Adam Shankman [36:28]

• On directing Martin Short’s drama:

  "He could be a total... he could be a silent movie star because it happens in his eyes." — Adam Shankman [31:27]

• On approaching the set:

  "I am not a lazy director... there's very little random." — Adam Shankman [20:39]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:28: Show intro and guests announced
• 01:32: Episode 3 plot recap
• 04:11: John Hoffman describes the murder mystery plot within the play
• 06:40: Discussing new musical talent and creative collaborations
• 10:24: Story behind “Look for the Light” and Meryl’s first reaction
• 12:19: On integrating music—musical vs. musical episode
• 15:26: How they recorded the lullaby with Meryl on set
• 18:34: Real-life Arconia apartment trivia
• 20:30: Director Adam Shankman joins; on his approach to directing and clue management
• 24:13: Shankman discusses preparing for musical sequences
• 29:30: Insight into the piano scene’s vulnerability and romance
• 35:30: Shankman recalls Meryl’s selfless off-camera singing and its emotional impact

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Tone and Style

The episode is witty, warm, and filled with awe at the artistic talent on set. The speakers are candid, effusive, and precise when honoring their collaborators, especially Meryl Streep’s dedication and the show’s ambitious musical turn.

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For Fans & Listeners

This is a must-hear episode for anyone fascinated by musical storytelling on TV or the collaborative magic that sets Only Murders in the Building apart. It’s especially rewarding for fans of Meryl Streep, behind-the-scenes process, and the inner workings of great ensemble performances.

Transcript

[Maggie Bowles]

Straw Hut Media.

[Adam Shankman]

Can you hear my phone in the background?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, it's okay.

[Adam Shankman]

Did you hear? Okay, hold on.

[Daniel Ferreira]

Yeah, we can wait.

[Emily Leets]

That's very impressive.

[Daniel Ferreira]

I can't believe you have a landline there. What year is it?

[Adam Shankman]

It's the phone that I don't use. It's the phone like my assistant.

[Daniel Ferreira]

Gotcha. Gotcha.

[Adam Shankman]

Who's not here? So,

[Maggie Bowles]

Hello and welcome to Only Murders in Nep. I am Maggie Pools.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And I'm Ryan Tillotson.

[Maggie Bowles]

And this season is a little different because we can't talk to any of the writers or actors, but we're still mining for clues and trying to figure out who the killer is. Before all is revealed in the season

[Ryan Tillotson]

finale, we'll be talking to directors, editors and other key members of the production team and piecing it all together.

[Maggie Bowles]

Today on the show, we dive into episode three with co creator, showrunner and producer John Hoffman and the director of episode three, Adam Shankman.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We'll talk about John's musical dream team, Meryl Streep's commitment to her cast, and how much Adam. Adam knew about the murder when he got to set to film his episodes.

[Maggie Bowles]

Just a heads up, there will be spoilers for episode three. So listeners, if you haven't watched, hit the pause button, stream it now and come right back. Also, make sure you subscribe to the podcast. We're going to be releasing two episodes per week this season and you won't

[Daniel Ferreira]

want to miss them.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay, let's recap.

[Maggie Bowles]

Episode three. Grab your hankies.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We start with Kimber's voiceover. Oliver and Howard and Jonathan are hard at work trying to write music for Death Rattle Dazzle to pitch to Donna and Cliff.

[Maggie Bowles]

Donna tells Oliver he needs a Showstopper song and he has three days to write it and convince them not to close the show.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Meanwhile, the trio is back at the murder board going over suspects and Kimber is looking suspicious as ever, very suspicious. Charles is tasked with finding out who who no longer has their hanky.

[Maggie Bowles]

Then Mabel runs into Tolbert in the elevator and he lets her into Ben's penthouse to look for clues. But they're both up to something and they have to hide in the armoire when Dickie, Ben's brother, comes in.

[Ryan Tillotson]

While they're in the armoire, they overhear an emotional Dickie crying and saying, I'm sorry, Ben. Plus, there's some sparks flying between Mabel and Taubert. We learn that Taubert's camera was recording in Ben's dressing room on opening night. Mabel swipes the drive, but she can't watch it without the password.

[Maggie Bowles]

The cast starts rehearsal, and they're not sold on the musical idea. Oliver thinks he's screwed. He asks Loretta for advice, and she convinces him that Creatures of the Night is not the showstopper song he's looking for, but that the nanny's lullaby has the heart of the show. And there are some sparks flying there, too.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Definitely. Dickie has agreed to be Loretta's new manager, and he gets her a recurring part with a limp on Grey's Anatomy, but she'll have to go to la. At first, Oliver puts his foot down and says she can't go because she's under contract. But he changes his mind and asks her to sing the lullaby for Donna and Cliff.

[Maggie Bowles]

Cliff decides to keep producing the show, even though his mom isn't sure, because you shouldn't give up on something you love, like breastfeeding. We see the tape from opening night. Ben is talking to someone off screen saying, you're bad.

[Daniel Ferreira]

I want you.

[Maggie Bowles]

Something like that.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Something like that, yeah. And Oliver and Loretta share a kiss. She decides to stay with the play.

[Maggie Bowles]

Charles manages to locate all of the hankies except for campers.

[Adam Shankman]

You're just gonna sit there acting all sweet.

[John Hoffman]

We both know your path. That was so beautiful.

[Ashley]

Thank you, Charles. I feel so much lighter about Ben and this musical. I really feel like it can work.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah. Oh, and any time for that hanky.

[Ashley]

Oh, yeah. I really wanted to give you my hanky, but I must have thrown it away or donated it to a good cause.

[John Hoffman]

A baby is being cared for at the top of a lighthouse. And when someone dies after being thrown out the window of that top of the lighthouse, the only person in the room when the person was killed, it seems, was the infant child.

[Ryan Tillotson]

This is John Hoffman, co creator, showrunner, producer, and director of episodes one and two.

[John Hoffman]

And that the person is the mother of the child who's the first victim in the story. And more disturbingly, she has been sent to her death with a baby's rattle down her throat. So that seemed very much like in our show, to build a sort of gothic chestnut of a murder mystery play in a very isolated part of the world that could be evocative and interesting, but also then plays on themes when you have a nanny who is charged to look out for this child.

[Oliver Putnam]

So who's with me? Who wants to keep doing the play? Who wants to bring deathrattle back to life and turn it into Amusem?

[John Hoffman]

There's wonderful themes that resonate throughout our season. And so that was very, very, very Important to land on that for all aspects of producing. When I'm talking to the composers, when I'm talking to Pasek and Paul about Death Rattle then becoming Death Rattle Dazzle, and what does this song need to be saying and how does it all have to be folding on to the story that we're following in the real world? And all of that was highly, highly considered. And it also meant, you know, working with our production designer, Patrick Howe, who's such a fantastic, brilliant guy, and to be able to sort of wait till you see where it's going. We have a lot more to do on deathrattle, and deathrattle does.

[Emily Leets]

I believe it.

[Daniel Ferreira]

I can imagine.

[Emily Leets]

Yeah, I believe it.

[Daniel Ferreira]

Since this season, we're going to be talking about all of the aspects of the show outside of writing and acting. I'd love to hear some of the new people that you had on the set this year and on the show this season. So who is new in the Murders family? In the Murders Family? And what's special about them and why are they here now?

[John Hoffman]

We had a good repeat rate in general on the production side, but the big new element to the season were sort of these compositions, these songs, incredible, incredible songs that were written for the season by outrageously gifted composers Benj Pasek and Justin Paul. And they joined up, and when that happened, we had this great creative discussion between us about what the songs needed to do in the season and how they needed to fold into what we were writing. And that process I had never done before. But I'm a kid of the theater. I grew up sort in the theater, so I long to do something like this with really talented composers and I have many composer friends and things like that. But this felt like, oh, God, I get to swim in the pond. That I haven't been able to really swim in with really gifted people. And that was a blast to have those conversations and shape how that might work and be a part of our season. Then they did the insane thing of bringing along collaborators themselves. So to have Sara Bareilles working with

[Daniel Ferreira]

Pasek and Paul, Sarah Bareilles, too cool.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah. For the first song in the season, the Nanny's Lullaby, look for the Light. And then they brought along other insanely gifted composers, Mark Shaiman and Scott Whitman. Then Michael R. Jackson, who wrote the Tony winning Strange Loop, A Strange Loop, composed the Finale, one of the finale, big finale songs for us. And that. That was crazy. So they were new, wildly exciting and just a great collaboration. Unbelievable. Outside of that, we had a new dp, which is Very exciting. He was our first camera operator last year, Kyle Volschlager. And he is very, very gifted young dp. And we had the benefit of having had a sort of previous relationship with Kyle and knowing his temperament and his. In his sensibility. And he had been sort of right there at the shoulder of Chris Teague, who had established the look for the first two seasons and shot gorgeously for us. I was happy to see Chris Teague get a nomination for the Emmys this year.

[Daniel Ferreira]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

Yes. Okay. I get very excited about it. Yeah.

[Daniel Ferreira]

And some new directors this season too, right?

[John Hoffman]

Yeah, we had a pair and two new directors. Fantastic. Adam Shankman directed episodes three and four, and then Chris Koch directed episodes five and six.

[Maggie Bowles]

John's audio got weird there for a second, but he's talking about the pair of directors that directed episode eight, Bob Pulcini and Sherry Springer Berman. And. Yeah, yes, we will talk to them

[Ryan Tillotson]

when the time comes and they're married like us.

[John Hoffman]

And Shireen Davis came back and Jamie Babbitt came back. Shireen directed seven and nine, and then Jamie directed episode 10, the finale for us. And I directed the first two.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, Meryl's first time hearing the Nanny's Lullaby and the complicated surgery of making the music feel real.

[Maggie Bowles]

Welcome back. We had heard about the musical aspects of Only Murder season three, teased since the end of season two last year, but this episode is where it really gets real. Here is John Hoffman.

[John Hoffman]

The end of episode three is the most significant entree thanks to Justin Paul and Benj Pasek and Sara Bareilles writing a song for. And I'll never forget doing a zoom with Meryl and saying, I have a song to play. And Sarah is singing it on this video. I'm gonna play you. And there's a line in that song. My love is a lighthouse so darling, my darling, look for the light. And at that line that Sarah was singing on video for Meryl to hear for the first time. Meryl on her zoom, literally just toppled

[Adam Shankman]

out of the frame.

[John Hoffman]

She was so blown over by it, bowled over by it. And we all were. That continues throughout the rest of the season. There are incredible songs to come.

[Emily Leets]

We're going to hear lots of music. Yeah, I'm excited.

[John Hoffman]

I'm excited.

[Emily Leets]

Yeah, I'm excited. So Meryl was always game just to start singing. Everyone was excited just to sing this

[John Hoffman]

moment, this choice for us. And I will say, I did drive this one. But then it was a miracle. One of our co writers My co writer of episode one, Sass Goldberg, is an actress in New York and a writer, brilliant writer as well, and is good friends with Benj Pasek and Justin Paul. And so day one of our writers room, I expressed my wish that Oliver was going to take this play and turn it into a musical. And Sass said, who do you have composing? I said, well, no one yet, but I have a wish list. And she said, who's on your wish list? They said, well, Pasek and Paul are at the top of that wish list. And she said, let me text them right now. Now, meanwhile. And. And then within a minute, they texted back, we're in.

[Adam Shankman]

Wow.

[John Hoffman]

Again, that's what happened on this show. So.

[Emily Leets]

Oh, my gosh.

[John Hoffman]

And that happened. And this amazing process of making songs work within our stories so that, you know, we're not becoming a musical. I know. Well, the process of making musicals from friends of mine throughout the years. A dear friend of mine is Bill Condon, who so brilliantly adapted Chicago for the screen and brilliantly directed Dream Girls and Beauty and the Beast. And I've watched, you know, sort of that dance of that transference for how an audience will. What an audience will accept musically and what.

[Adam Shankman]

Yes.

[John Hoffman]

Works and doesn't work. I have a lot of opinions about it, but. So I knew we weren't going to be doing a musical episode. I knew we weren't going to be doing sort of music that we have within the world of our show. There are moments like the end of episode two where you can have a fantasy, if you're a director of a Broadway show, that he might have a musical fantasy.

[Emily Leets]

Right. But no one's just breaking out into song for no reason.

[John Hoffman]

That's right.

[Emily Leets]

Can you tell us about the Nanny's Lullaby?

[John Hoffman]

Oh, yeah, that was an amazing thing. And episode three came together in a beautiful way. It was a very signature moment for the show at the end of episode three, I think, and it does a lot for us. The song is happening while stories are coming together and the mystery story is coming together and the romantic stories are coming together, and all of it is folding on itself under the spell of this amazing song that was written by Ben Pasek and Justin Paul and Sara Bareilles. The requirement needed for that song was to show the glimmer of the idea, the spark of the idea that we talk about in episode three that Kimber is talking about. You know, when someone has the spark, it has to be. It can only, you know, once you see it, it becomes a burning fire. And everyone wants that Fire if it's. If the spark is true and good. But in order to get people to see that spark that you feel in your heart as a creative person, it has to be shared and understood, and that's a huge challenge. So we knew that we were aiming towards a moment, after much sturm and Drang between Oliver and Loretta in their personal relationship story, to have this moment when he's been told he needs to produce a showstopper.

[Daniel Ferreira]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

That she will deliver a song. The direct opposite of that. But that gets to the heart of the show. That was the brief given to Pasek and Paul and Sarah, and they produced that song, which just bowled us all over. And it was really. Meryl in recording. It was glorious.

[Emily Leets]

Is that done? That's not any of that done live.

[John Hoffman]

What we do so as to, you know, not have it feel like lip sync and tracks and all of that. We have the track, but we let the actors sing and perform the song in the space while we're shooting and we record all of that. And I was schooled in this by our amazing musical director who works with Pasek and Paul and Ian Eisendrath, who guided all of these songs this year and shaped them and put together the elements of live performance that we would capture. And he would be. He'd be down to words and syllables that were better live for the match of the sink on Lips. And what you're watching is this weave that he has put together audibly, that is live singing with track, recording and the mix, but it's all seamlessly put together.

[Daniel Ferreira]

Wow, that's so cool.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah, it really was. I was fascinated by that process. And I was like, are you kidding? This is gonna work. And then when you see it and. But you want it to feel like it's in the room. You want it to feel like that's her standing on a stage. And it is. You know, that's the truth. It is. And she. That day was magical because it's Meryl Streep and she's got an audience sitting in Oliver's living room of actors who. They were a mess watching her sing that song and over and over and over again. And Meryl. Meryl came to me at one point and she said, I'm having the best time. And I said, oh, I'm so glad. I said, because we're doing this a lot. She said, oh, I know. I don't usually like a lot of takes of scenes, but I love a lot of takes of music.

[Daniel Ferreira]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

And that was fascinating. And she really did she really got into it, you know? Can you believe what she sounds like and how she performs? I just think it's so good. Yeah. Again, one of my prouder moments for everybody involved that we got to have moments like that.

[Loretta]

My love is a lighthouse.

[Ashley]

When a spark finally catches fire and everyone can see it, then the only place you want to be is at the center of that fire.

[Loretta]

So darling, my darling.

[Ashley]

But if one person is shining a little brighter than the others, sometimes you can't help it. It's a competitive business. You may need to snuff them out.

[Loretta]

Look for the light. The light.

[Emily Leets]

I've got some questions about the arconia. Mostly, I guess, who's. Some people that are living there, but I don't know what you can actually tell me. But in episode three, we get to see Ben's apartment, I believe, and he's moved into Sting slash Amy Schumer's old place. Is that right? When did that happen? When did he move in?

[John Hoffman]

She left some cottage cheese in the fridge. He refers to it very briefly in episode one of season three, and he says, hey, that worked out. I got into Amy Schumer's place. She left some cottage cheese in the fridge.

[Daniel Ferreira]

I don't remember that line.

[John Hoffman]

No. Yeah, it's something to go back and find. It's at the table read. But, yes, so it is referenced that, you know, he got hooked up and Oliver helped hook him up with Amy Schumer, who was no longer, like, she was looking to rent it out for six months or something like that. So that's what happened in our minds

[Emily Leets]

there while they're doing the play. That's why he's there. Yes, that's what we're assuming.

[Daniel Ferreira]

Okay, gotcha, Gotcha.

[Emily Leets]

And then I also was curious, like, does Jan still have her apartment? And do we know who's in Jan's apartment?

[John Hoffman]

Oh, no. I think Jan lost her apartment and lost all her rights to everything else. So, no, we do. We've not. But that is certainly something up for discussion and has been.

[Emily Leets]

Ah, okay.

[John Hoffman]

As well as Tim Kona's apartment.

[Emily Leets]

Oh, yeah, right. I didn't even think about Tim Kona's apartment.

[Daniel Ferreira]

And that is that one. You know, those are two important things to list on the real estate listing. Like, was the apartment of a murderous psychopath bassoonists, and was the site of a murder staged to look like a suicide that launched a highly successful investigative podcast. So, you know, it's going to attract strange types, those two apartments.

[John Hoffman]

I think the real estate prospects for that building have Become very challenging. We've talked about a lot, for sure.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we speak with director Adam Shankman about the emotional side of Martin Short as Oliver and Meryl Streep's amazing commitment to her cast.

[Maggie Bowles]

Welcome back. Adam Shankman directed episodes three and four, and we heard on the grapevine that he was a fireball.

[Ryan Tillotson]

He has lots of energy.

[Adam Shankman]

Me, yeah. Oh, yay. I mean, I'm not a. I'm definitely not a lazy director. And by. I don't. That's not a disparaging thing. I'm not. I'm not, like, I just sit in my chair and say, shift director. I'm very, like, up and down and up and down and up and down involved. Maybe it's because of my choreographer background, but my level of preparation before I get into shooting is pretty intense. There's no, like, walking in and going, like, let's feel out the scene. And how are we going to. What are we going to do here? Like, I have it in my head already. And then when I have a schedule that's this limited and scripts that were really ambitious, I have to kind of have it, to a certain extent, sort of pre cut in my head. And so I try to be as efficient as possible by having an acute knowledge of how I think things are going to work together. Do you know what I mean? There's very. There's very little random.

[Emily Leets]

It seems like a lot of fun on set. Based on. I mean, I don't know. Obviously we're only seeing a final cut

[Daniel Ferreira]

of something, but, like, based on our conversations with.

[Emily Leets]

Yeah, yeah, it just. It does seem like a lot of fun. At what point do you start getting involved and, like, start actually. And what do you start doing? What's your first move?

[Adam Shankman]

Well, what happened with this was how I got involved was I actually. Because I have a. I've made a couple of movies with Steve and the Oscars that I produced, he hosted. And. Yeah, so I have a long, really close relationship with Steve, and I just texted him about how much I was loving second season, and I probably made some offhand comment about, like, God, I would do anything to direct an episode. And he went, really? And then the next thing I knew, I was getting a call from John saying, like, do you want to come in and talk about doing an episode? So, A, I was thrilled. I wasn't doing anything at the time. And B, I just. The idea of being able to. Because there's a kind of relief for a Director who comes into a TV show. Because I'm not shouldering the whole thing like on a movie, I'm shouldering the whole thing on the TV shows. I literally get to walk in and go, like, what do you want? Like, I don't have to have the answers to all of the questions, Especially on a show that has a mystery where I don't know what they need to have happen in order to achieve what they want in the end. So they're like, just make sure you get this. Make sure you get this. And they're all in the bucket of clues. It's like things that need to be shown in order to be clues down the line. And I literally will say to them, just tell me on the day if there's a specific shot that you need in order to help episode eight. Do you know what I mean? Just, just, just red flag it for me. Yeah, because it will be of a thing. Do you know what I mean? Or something in the background or something. Like, they're just like, make sure that you get this. And I'm like, great. I don't need to know why, just tell me how to do it. So when I met with John, he was playing everything very close to the vest about what was going on in the season, but he kind of let on about the musical. There was nothing about the crime. And he also told me that the composers, who are friends of mine as well, were involved. And then the next thing I know, they're scheduling me to come.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Do you get like a season three Bible or anything like that?

[Emily Leets]

Or just the scripts?

[Adam Shankman]

No, no, no, you just get three. I just got three and four. Got it. Wow. I got three and four. Oh, actually, you know what? They sent me one and two as well, so I knew what was leading up to my episode.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay, okay.

[Adam Shankman]

So I read 1, 2, 3 and 4. And because of the nature of the show in terms of, again, its scope and ambition and all of that, I just started going like, okay, this is where I'm going to need to put a little extra attention. This is what I'm going. I'm going to need that. And there were two things that I sort of red flagged as, oh, I need to look at this. Is that the amount of work that was written into Meryl's song at the end of 303, it was like a lot. It was pretty extensive. And so I was like, who? How am I going to do this without having to push dialogue underneath or over vocals or what am I going to do? And how are we Going to handle that. And. And then I was like, the timing does not work. Oh. And then I heard the song for the first time and, you know, wept. And it was, like, magical, beautiful. And it was the Sara Bareilles demo of it. And I was like, this is incredible. I love it. I listened to it a bunch of times, and then I was like, okay, well, there is so not enough song here to cover all of these scenes. Like, it's insane. And so I just kept going, like, we gotta write more music, guys. We gotta write more music. We gotta do that. Like. And so I. I sort of just kept hammering at that as we were getting ready, because John was so involved in getting one and two together, I didn't want to bother him a lot about all of this. And so ultimately, when I finally kind of cornered him, and I was like, just so you know, because at this time, at this point now I'm in New York and I'm like, five days away from shooting. So I'd gotten there, and I was starting sort of soft prep, and I got together with Justin and Ian, and so we sat there and I talked all the scenes out while he was playing piano. And they were watching, and they were like, oh, wow, that's more music than we thought. You're going to need extra. And, like, they kept having to go that thing like that. And I was like, great, because. And we all sat down and carved up the song. Okay, this part will happen here. This part will happen here. This part will happen here. So they got that done. And that was before Meryl had recorded. And then I had said to everybody, I don't want to interrupt the song the way that it's interrupted inside of the show. Like, I'm not breaking up the song to accommodate the scenes. I just want to shoot the song. So what I then did was I had to be incredibly prepared about every camera angle that I knew I was going to have and need. Not just for the song, but in order to get us in and out of the scenes that had to come in there.

[Daniel Ferreira]

Yowza.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Wow.

[Adam Shankman]

So, like, that part was. That part was. I mean. But by the way, that's really fun for me. Like, I mean, I hope so. It's like. Yeah, it's. It's great. I mean, what. You know, I obviously have a lot of experience with musicals, and, you know, when somebody just stands there and sings, we call it a park and bark. And, you know, rather than just having some park and bark, I was. It was like having this really kind of fun. Fun puzzle that was all getting put together so that I knew that by the time that the editor. By the time that Peyton got it, he was going to have a lot to play with. But it was very specific, and it was going to be a very easy roadmap for him.

[Emily Leets]

Wow.

[Adam Shankman]

The rest of it is just making sure that, you know, that everybody's having a great time. And then when I heard I had Meryl, I was just like, okay. Like, how few directors get to direct Meryl Streep doing comedy? You know, it was very special. I had known her before. I had worked with her before once as a choreographer. She absolutely remembered. I. When I produced the Oscars, she was nominated because, of course she was. And, you know, there. Sandy Bullock won that year. It was for the Blind side. So Sandy. Sandy got that anyway, so I was just one. I was just really excited to kind of dig in with everybody and do that.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We will be right back with more from director of episode three, Adam Shenkman.

[Oliver Putnam]

What do I have to do to get people to see what I see?

[Ashley]

Hmm?

[Oliver Putnam]

Can you help me?

[Loretta]

No, I'm afraid not. What about this one? This one?

[Oliver Putnam]

The Nanny's Lullaby.

[Adam Shankman]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay.

[John Hoffman]

No, I'm not.

[Loretta]

Oh, What? Come on, Oliver. That is good.

[Daniel Ferreira]

So in episode three, there's this scene with Oliver and Loretta at the piano. That's really sweet when Oliver says, what do I have to do to get people to see what I see? And I was just curious about directing that scene in that moment. What you could tell us about it?

[Adam Shankman]

You know, every scene that we did, you know, we really talked about the tone. And when. When Meryl and Marty sat down to do it, they were pretty primed for exactly what that moment was. It's like, you know, Marty has a lot of really vulnerable scenes this season. And that scene was really sweet because it was a moment of vulnerability, but it was also, you know, the first very obvious sign that the sparks were flying between them and all of that. And so it was actually sort of a hard scene for Marty because he's trying to play this. Like, I'm frustrated. I don't know why doing. Can you help me? Like all this stuff, but at the same time. And it's pretty compact, you know, then finding, like, your way to, oh, are we gonna kiss? You know what I mean? Like, so it was. It was just very quiet the way that we did it. I just. I just stayed really close to them. I listened to them. I did not want them to talk loud. I loved the way that they were kind of doing. Look, you know, when you're working with people as good as they are and who. Marty so knows who that character is. And Meryl had really dropped into her sweet spot in there. It was pretty easy, but I just like letting the authenticity unfold. I didn't try to push anything. I just wanted the energy to be between them and their closeness.

[Loretta]

What I love about Oliver Putnam shows is that underneath all the bombast and the chaos and the breeding crabmen, it's just. There's a vulnerability. That's what makes Oliver Putnam special.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It's fun. Cause, like, yeah, this season we do

[Emily Leets]

see a lot of more vulnerability in. In Oliver. And, yeah, usually just Martin Short.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You see him just be so silly all the time. And so it's fun to see this different side.

[Adam Shankman]

I love directing Marty doing the dramatic scenes. Like, those are. Those are some of my favorite things to do with him, because what happens in those eyes of his, the incredible. How expressive, how vulnerable he. He's like, almost like he could be a total. He could be a silent movie star because it happens on his face and in his eyes, and everything else is just gravy. And so it was really wonderful, like, when he's sitting and listening to her sing the song, you know, I mean, there's a whole story about that, but, you know, it was. It was just so special, you know? And those are those scenes I love. And I love doing, like, I've shot a lot of, like, dramatic scenes with Steve, too, and I love those scenes. You know, those are some of my absolute favorites. They're intimate. You know what I mean? They have gravity.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Daniel Ferreira]

Also in episode three, there's that. There's, like, where Oliver's kind of teeth come out at the end when he tells Loretta, basically, you know, you're under contract. You can't. You can't leave. And I felt like that was like, you know, there's the vulnerable side, but then there's also the psychological pretty sharp side. That was. That was interesting to see.

[Oliver Putnam]

Well, Oliver, I cannot be serious. What about our show?

[John Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Oliver Putnam]

What about the last few months?

[Loretta]

Well, I will always cherish this time I discovered you. Yes. That's not a reason to punish me. Oliver, you lost your leading man. You're trying to make this play into

[Oliver Putnam]

a musical that you wrote. She's under contract,

[Loretta]

Oliver.

[Oliver Putnam]

You're under contract.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Sorry.

[Adam Shankman]

Yeah, it's funny because I'm also. I direct, like, Joe Audience. Like, when I'm. When I'm sitting in there, like, I react when they're acting well. And like, when he he did that. I was like, oh, you know, I. I sort of. My heart sort of grabbed a little bit. And to see her trying to be like, no, no, but. And he's like, no. And he just, like, stood there in his. Sort of in his shoes and, you know, maintaining his position and to see the hurt wash over her and to see. And what's so incredible about him in that moment is he does it from a place of hurt and fear. Even though it seems like anger and authority, but he's doing it from hurt and fear.

[Emily Leets]

Yeah.

[Adam Shankman]

So I felt that underneath all of the bravado, you know.

[Emily Leets]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Adam Shankman]

That stuff just sort of manifested, you know, they're just really great together and they. They read each other incredibly well.

[Daniel Ferreira]

Yeah, they really did. The chemistry between Martin Short and Meryl Streep is something I didn't know I needed.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, I love it much.

[Adam Shankman]

Yeah.

[Daniel Ferreira]

Me.

[Adam Shankman]

I mean, they were. I mean, they, like. It really felt like being on set, I felt like I was watching a really good play. Like I was watching actors in a really, really good play. And that's. That was, like, a great feeling. Like, I loved being like. When it's just me and them alone in the rehearsal moments, like having that time to shape that stuff and, you know, you don't have a lot of time to do it because of the schedule. Everything's really tight. You know, those moments are the ones that feel the best. And then. And then in a lot of the scenes, especially those kinds of scenes, I stay very. I stay next to the camera. I don't sit at the monitors, so I'm with them. And that I love.

[Emily Leets]

You said that you have a whole story about the nanny's lullaby song, right?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Adam Shankman]

This was one of the most impactful moments, or it was certainly the most impactful day of shooting that I had on the show, which was. We had two scenes to shoot before we even got into the song. And I knew, again, I had to do a lot of covering on the song in order to get us in and out of those scenes. And it was very, very specific kind of coverage that I needed to do in order to make that whole sequence work the way it worked in my mind. And by the time we got to the song, I knew that Meryl's time on the clock and Steve's time on the clock were absolutely going to run out. And they take that pretty seriously over there. So they were on two different sides of the room because Steve is watching and Meryl's on the stage. And so it's two Completely flat, flipped camera angles. When I tell you that we finished shooting Meryl's side with Ashley included.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's Kimber.

[Adam Shankman]

Kimber, yes. She plays Kimber. When I say we got Loretta and Kimber's coverage ending the minute Meryl wrapped. I mean, it was the minute of her round. Literally the minute. And I called cut. And it was the thing. And I was like, amazing. We got her performance. It was, as you've seen, it was, even, if possible, more extraordinary to watch in the room. Like, it was. It was incredible. And then we had to turn around and start on ticking off, getting everybody watching and their reactions and all of that, including getting. And Because I had to get Ashley watching Ashley starting to sing, Ashley coming up onto the stage, all of that stuff. It was about two hours more of work, you know, between turning around the cameras, getting everybody all of that. So everybody's like, oh, thank you, Meryl. Good night, whatever, blah, blah, blah. We turn around the cameras, we start to shoot. And I look up and Meryl is standing there in full costume. And she proceeds to sing every take, every camera angle, full on, out loud, crying. Every single take, not just off camera, but behind the cameras, so that the other actors could have that experience and so that they were reacting to what was real. And so, you know, most of the big actors that I work with, you know, well, of course, you know, mostly will always do off camera, but this went so far above and beyond because she never even got out of her drag. She. She never did anything. And when I say watching her being that generous and emotional and all of that, but singing, you know, we're not talking about. She wasn't just doing, like a monologue. She was, like, singing in full out with her and. And Ashley, like, so it was a pretty remarkable thing. So, like, when you see tears in the eyes of the people watching, they're crying because they're. I think they're. Everybody was just really overwhelmed during that whole sequence. And so when you see what Marty's. What's in Marty's eyes, it's like he is, you know, responding to just this beautiful performance that none of us thought was going to be there for him to react to when we were shooting.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Adam Shankman]

So it was. It was an incredibly special day.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's it for today. Part 2 of this episode will be out on Friday.

[Ryan Tillotson]

In that episode, in this episode, we'll talk to editors Shelley Westerman and Peyton Koch about the editing tricks they use to make people look suspicious and a lot more.

[Maggie Bowles]

Plus, we'll hear some of your theories, stuff you sent us by email, and stuff from the Only Murders subreddit.

[Ryan Tillotson]

See you then. Only Murders in the Pod is a production of Straw Hut Media. This episode was written, edited and hosted by Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillotson, with additional editing and sound mixing by Daniel Ferreira. Motion graphics for promotional materials are by Ali Omid, which with graphic design by Mohammad Samir. Our associate producer is Steven Markley. Original music by Kyle Merritt and Only Murders theme music by Siddhartha Khosla. Big, big thanks to John Hoffman, Javier Salas, Emily Leets, Yasmin Azarakish, Lydia McMahon, Cindy Neighbor, and the rest of the Hulu team. And thanks to Keener and kk. We wish you were with us this season.

[Maggie Bowles]

We.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Charles Locates all of the hang. You should do that, but you should

[Emily Leets]

take over from Charles.

[Daniel Ferreira]

Charles Locates.