S3 E3: Grab Your Hankies (Part 2)

Summary

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Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

S3 E3: Grab Your Hankies (Part 2)

Release Date: August 18, 2023
Host(s): Maggie Bowles & Ryan Tillotson
Featured Guests: Shelley Westerman & Peyton Koch (Editors)

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Episode Overview

In this behind-the-scenes deep dive, Maggie and Ryan continue their exploration of "Grab Your Hankies" (S3 Ep3) by talking with “Only Murders in the Building” editors Shelley Westerman and Peyton Koch. The episode unpacks the craft of making people look suspicious, the musical “Frankenstein method” of song editing, the intricacies of recaps, and fan theories from email and Reddit. There’s lots of playful insider insight into the on-set atmosphere and production challenges unique to the murder-mystery-musical format.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Editorial Collaboration & Division of Labor ([01:00]–[03:41])

• Team Dynamics:
  • Peyton was mentored by Shelley and they've worked together for 5 years ([01:18]).
  • Editing assignments are typically divided in rotation; for S3, Shelley, Peyton, and Peggy each had their own episodes but shared a strong working relationship:

    “In television editing, you’ll be assigned a rotation. But because all of us had worked together on season two, we came back for season three. We knew each other. We had a shorthand.” — Shelley ([03:01])

  • All editors work remotely, making communication and bonding even more important.

2. Outtakes, Gag Reels, and Stars’ Approach ([04:03]–[07:52])

• On-set Fun:
  • Editors enjoy unseen hilarious moments from A-list cast dailies:

    “…there isn’t like a published gag reel, but we did put something together for the cast and crew…for the wrap party.” — Peyton ([04:20])

  • Cast sticks closely to the script, minimal ad-libbing, which surprised editors.
  • Steve Martin is hard on himself, Martin Short cracks him and others up:

    “Marty said, ‘Steve, just use some of your improvisational skills—of which you have none!’” — Shelley ([06:10])

• Panic Moments:
  • Editors worry about set leaks via social media:

    “We panic when there are little clips or photos on Instagram from the set… Someone zooms in and sees a clue.” — Shelley ([06:51])

3. Making Characters Appear Suspicious Through Editing ([08:17]-[10:35])

• Visual Storytelling Techniques:
  • Editors use specific shots/takes and hold on certain faces to direct suspicion.
  • Example: Episode 3 focuses on Kimber, so editors highlighted her reactions to make her the audience’s main suspect for the week:

    "I would intentionally want to show shots of her... looking a little suspicious, just so we remind the audience, this is Kimber's interrogation episode." — Peyton ([08:47])

  • Sometimes the scene is reviewed without sound to ensure visual storytelling is on point:

    “We’ll edit a scene...then play it without any sound, silence it, mute it, and see where your eyes are going and see what story you’re telling.” — Shelley ([10:02])

4. Editing the Musical Numbers – The “Frankenstein” Method ([11:24]–[16:47])

• Song Syncing Complexity:
  • Meryl Streep’s “Look for the Light” was fully pre-recorded; later episodes mix live and pre-recorded vocals.
  • Editors and music team had to match mouth movements meticulously:

    "There was a whole process... matching her mouth to the word. We had a lot of sync work to do." — Peyton ([11:40])

  • Final mixes are pieced together with syllable-level precision—sometimes a single sung word will splice together a live take and pre-recorded audio.
  • Editors occasionally “speed warp” video to improve sync; music editors do the same to audio:

    "In some of the numbers, we would speed warp... I might make it to 98 or 97 or 102% to get something in sync... It's a dance you play back and forth." — Shelley ([14:58])

  • The goal: keep the music diegetic and realistic, with atmospherics like on-stage reverb or crowd noise baked in.

5. Crafting the “Previously On” Recaps ([17:28]–[19:32])

• Recap Process:
  • Editors, often with help from assistants, assemble recaps that set up crucial info and clues for the episode.
  • Showrunner John Hoffman gives occasional notes about must-include details.

    “You can puzzle out and story wise say, oh, I need these 10 things. And you cut them together and you watch it, you're like, oh, I only need about five of those things.” — Shelley ([19:32])

• Clue Placement:
  • Fans scrutinize recaps for hidden clues—editors are aware and intentionally make them tight and purposeful.

6. Runtime Constraints and Editing Choices ([20:24]–[22:49])

• Runtime Discipline:
  • Even with streaming freedom, episodes have a max runtime (~37 minutes) due to contracts/money.
  • Musical episodes especially had long initial edits; painful cuts had to be made.
  • Examples of “killing your darlings,” such as a cut Steve Martin moment:

    “There’s a scene... where Steve goes up to the cast and he is just ridiculous trying... and he, like, invites them up for drinks and a cheese board. It was just hysterical dialogue.” — Peyton ([21:34])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Marty said, ‘Steve, just use some of your improvisational skills—of which you have none!’” – Shelley ([06:10])
• “When I saw it, I died and was like, that has to be in the cut...when she [Meryl Streep] bangs her head...” – Peyton, about Streep’s on-set gag ([07:13])
• “There’s a ton of funny stuff that goes on before and after cut...” – Peyton ([04:20])
• “I would intentionally want to show shots of her... looking a little suspicious...” – Peyton on editing Kimber as a suspect ([08:47])
• “We’ll edit a scene...then play it without any sound, silence it...see what story you’re telling.” – Shelley ([10:02])
• “Even our music mixer... there’s like one syllable of pre-record, one syllable live.” – Shelley ([13:15])
• “You only need about five of those things (in the recap).” – Shelley ([19:32])

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Fan Theories & Listener Interaction ([23:06]–[32:44])

"Accusation Station" Segment (originally considered "Theory Airy"):

• Multiple Attempts Theory: What if Ben’s poisoner and murderer are two different people? (Kate McManus, [24:02])
• Kimber Suspicion: Kimber seems frightened by Ben—more than scorned ([24:52]).
• Dickie as Prime Suspect: Multiple listeners/redditors point to Ben’s brother as suspicious (“no reasons, just vibes”).
• Loretta as Ben’s Nanny or Mom: Recurring speculation, debated as possibly too obvious ([25:49], [28:55]).
• Production Details as Clues: Discussion around Ben’s tattoos, possible makeup inconsistency, and camera-leaked details ([27:28]).
• Chekhov’s Gun – Oliver’s Heart Monitor: Could foreshadow a dramatic moment ([27:01]).
• Podcast Self-Awareness: Hosts note the show’s meta-humor about "another female killer" ([30:53]).

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Noted Timestamps for Important Segments

• Editorial Workflow and Mentorship: [01:00]–[03:41]
• Gag Reels & Star Outtakes: [04:03]–[07:52]
• Editing Suspicion: [08:17]–[10:35]
• Editing Musical Numbers: [11:24]–[16:47]
• Editing Recaps & Clue Crafting: [17:28]–[19:32]
• Runtime Constraints & Deleted Scenes: [20:24]–[22:49]
• Fan Theory Segment: [23:06]–[32:44]
• Noticing Show’s Metacommentary: [30:53]

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Summary Takeaways

• Editing on "Only Murders" is a collaborative, detail-obsessed craft, with editors pulling literal syllables or frames to create seamless performances and suspense.
• Much of the cast’s brilliance appears in precise, rather than ad-libbed, performances, with the comedic chemistry happening both before and after “cut.”
• Fandom engagement is a driving force, with listeners' and Redditors' theories actively shaping the podcast and show discourse—no clue is too minor!
• The creative team’s discipline in tailoring episodes to contractual runtimes leads to “painful” but thoughtful deletions—even at the expense of classic Steve Martin bits.
• The show’s self-referential humor and musical ambitions set it apart, and the editorial department approaches both with both craft and a sense of play.

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Transcript

[A]

Straw hut media.

[B]

Welcome to Only Murders in the Pod. I'm Ryan Tillotson.

[A]

And I am Maggie Bowles. And this season is a little different because we can't talk to any of the writers or actors, but we're still mining for clues and trying to figure out who the killer is. Before all is revealed in the season

[B]

finale, we'll be talking to directors, editors, and other key members of the production team and piecing it all together.

[A]

This is part two of our coverage of episode three. And in the first part, we heard from showrunner Cookery creator John Hoffman and director Adam Shankman, and it was great. If you haven't listened, go listen.

[B]

Go listen. Today we're talking to editors Shelley Westerman and Peyton Koch about how they make people look suspicious with editing and the time consuming Frankenstein method for mixing songs. Plus, we're talking through some of the theories you've shared with us so far by email and through the only Murders subreddit.

[A]

Peyton Koch was the main editor for episode three, but there were actually three editor who work together a lot on the show, including Peggy Tachian. I'm sorry, Peggy, if I said your name wrong, but we didn't talk to her, so I didn't get to ask her how to pronounce it. But she is also great. Shelly and Peyton, who we did talk to, have worked together for years. Here's Peyton.

[C]

Shelly, what has been sort of a mentor figure for me coming up in the industry, and I've been lucky enough to work with her for like the last five years or so.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

Wow.

[D]

And last year we decided we, we had tackled so many different genres and things in the Ryan Murphy world, and when I came to Only Murders, I said, come with me. We got this. And the best way to approach it is for you to cut everything as well, to really learn and kind of get your chops. And so that's how we started season two, and it was so amazing. And by the end of the season, we shared an episode edit credit together. And then on season three, he was offered his own episodes. And then of course we said, well, let's do the finale together. And then I'm like, and let's do number eight together too.

[B]

Oh, that's so interesting.

[D]

Evolution to see Peyton shine. And wait till you see his episode three.

[B]

Okay, well, that is actually like one of the first questions that I had was like, I'm really curious about, like, how this communication works and this, this relationship. And so you. I didn't know if you were like, we're working on the same episode together, or if you're like, you take this half, I'll take this half. Or how that works. So how did it work this season?

[A]

Which episodes, too?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[D]

So in the beginning, there's usually a division of episodes. So when you're hired, they'll say you're going to be. So, like, for example, I was assigned 2, 5, 8, and 10. And then our coworker Peggy, she was assigned, like, now I'll get my numbers wrong. Like, 1, 4, 7, and 9.

[C]

That was right.

[D]

And then Peyton got his assign. And so traditionally, in television editing, you'll be assigned, like, a rotation. There's a rotation. But because of the nature of. All of us had worked together on season two, the editors. We came back for season three. You know, we knew each other. We had a shorthand. The other Peggy, the other editor, was also in the Ryan Murphy world. So it made it very easy for all of us in terms of bonding because we knew each other for a few years and had relationships. Everything was remote, which is kind of tricky. They shoot in New York. We're all in LA or Florida or wherever we are.

[A]

One thing we imagine while editing this show is that you probably end up seeing a lot of very hilarious outtakes or pre. You know, when the camera starts rolling or after a cut. Especially with this kind of a cast, with all of these superstars. Are we right in our imaginings of that being a fun process, seeing outtakes?

[B]

Who else gets to see that?

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Yes, you're absolutely right. They're. They have so much fun on set. And, like, you know, obviously we're not there. We're all remote. But getting to watch the dailies every day from, like, when the camera starts recording to when they call cut, it almost feels like you are in the room and you get so, like, you're like, I know them, you know, like, I know what they were doing that day. And they're having. They have some. Yes. So there's a ton of funny stuff that goes on, you know, before and after cut. And there isn't, like, a published gag reel, but we did put something together for the cast and crew that they got to watch for the. There was, like, a wrap party that they had on set, and so there was, like, a little thing that just had, like, a few gags here and there and just, like, honoring the cast and crew that they got to watch.

[B]

Who do I need to message to get a copy of that?

[D]

I know, right? And I would say what was surprising is they don't do as much ad libbing as I thought. When we first joined, we thought, oh, it's going to be like crazy to edit because of all the ad libs. They don't. They work all of that stuff out very early on in the writing stage. Then we're privy to attending, which are super fun. These zoom calls where they do a table read and they'll all read the script. And that is fascinating because you get an idea of the rhythms and the jokes and maybe what's working or isn't working. And they'll go back and do rewrites after that before they shoot. So I was shocked. I thought it would be tons and tons of ad libs, but they're pretty strict. And the shooting days aren't that long either. You know, you've got a tight amount of time. So they've worked almost all of it out in advance.

[C]

Yeah, it was super interesting to see them come in and be very on top of like, oh, what was that word? Like, Steve and Marty are so on the script. Like, they want it to be exactly what's on the page, which was very fascinating.

[D]

And Steve is much more hard on himself. You know, he's very exacting and very. And Marty will get him to laugh. Marty will crack everybody up on set. So those are the out that are fun to watch. When Steve maybe didn't say something right, and he'll be like, oh, darn, I messed that up. And my favorite one from season two, Marty. And it was all, you know, like, after cut, but the camera was still yelling. Marty said, steve, just use some of your improvisational skills of which you have none.

[B]

I was gonna ask, like, if any. If there's any particular moment that maybe made it into this gag reel. Well, that was last season, but this season, any particular moment that just had you laughing or had you been panicking or anything?

[D]

The thing that we panic about is when there are little clips or photos on Instagram from the set where we're like, oh, my God, you can see the murder board in the background. Someone zooms in and sees a clue. What is that picture doing on Instagram? That kind of scared us.

[C]

Yeah, that was funny. This didn't. This didn't exactly. It wasn't in the blooper reel because it did actually make it in the cut. But in episode three, which I edited in the scene when they are doing the creatures rehearsal with. With Meryl as Loretta, she originally, when they first started shooting it, she wasn't doing this. But then she decided to throw in this Little gag where she, like, bumps the lantern on her head. And when I. When I was watching the dailies, it wasn't in the first few takes. And then when I saw it, I died and was like, that has to be in the cut. Like this, when she bangs her head. And that really killed me. And I. And then I fought to, like, keep that in the cut. It was just too good.

[A]

And it made it.

[B]

And it made it.

[C]

Yeah, it's there. It's there. I can't wait to watch it. The creatures of the night.

[B]

Well, it's a start.

[C]

Give me one or two seconds to collect my thoughts.

[A]

We were wondering about, like, editing and making people suspicious. So, like, in episode three, I think, like, the trio's very focused on Kimber. And then Ryan was also very suspicious of Tobert.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we were wondering about, like, editing techniques that you use when you're trying to make someone look sketchy or. I don't know, is that. Is that something that you think about when you're. When you're editing, about using a specific take or an angle or anything like that?

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. And so, like, when I first read the script for episode three, and I knew that it started with Kimber's voiceover, I knew that we were going to be going into, like, leading her as the suspect for that episode. And so anytime that she was present in a room with, like, the cast, or when stuff was either being rehearsed for Oliver's play, or if they were just talking amongst themselves, I would intentionally want to show shots of her, whether she's looking away or something or looking a little suspicious. Just so that we remind the audience, this is Kimber's interrogation episode. And especially at the end when she comes up on stage and you end that voiceover, and it gets a little bit more. More sinister. Like, we and Adam Shankman, when he directed her, and you could really see, like, her face shift when she, like, looks over to Loretta at the end and you. And just, like, playing on that and holding on her as long as possible with the voiceover, I think, really helped lead into the suspicious behavior and, like, make us think, like, oh, she is definitely up to something. You know, she lost that hanky and.

[A]

Yeah, definitely. Well, mission accomplished.

[B]

There's tricks.

[D]

Yeah. A technique Peyton and I do a lot of times is always playing it back silently. You know, like, we'll edit a scene and we'll have sound effects and backgrounds and a little bit of music, but then it's like, why don't you play it without any Sound, silence it, mute it, and then see where your eyes going and see what story you're telling out all of that. Some of that stuff is icing on the cake.

[B]

Oh, I love that.

[D]

Yeah, it's super helpful.

[B]

We're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, more from Peyton and Shelley about the complicated business of editing a musical. The work that goes into the recaps you see at the top of the episode, and of course, your theories.

[A]

Theories. Welcome back. We are talking with editors Shelley Westerman and Peyton Koch. Hush, little one Let me sing you to sleep moonlight has come now Drift off to a dream Sail from the day to the one wonders Awaiting you out there in the deep

[B]

in this one, we hear the nanny's lullaby sung by Meryl Streep. Beautiful John told us that the singing in the show is kind of a mix of a live performance and like maybe pre recorded. And I'm curious how that works. How involved are you guys in that process?

[C]

Yes, we were heavily involved in that process. I will say in look for the Light in episode three, that one is a full pre record. She did not, or, you know, she did sing it live, but they recorded it with a backing track. So we couldn't use any of the production audio for that specific song. So that whole track is her pre recorded. They did go and change certain takes throughout the song, like here and there. Because when we were editing, we had a lot of sync work to do with like, matching her mouth to the word. So there was a whole process that we worked with our music editor, Miha. We would go back and forth and he would say, oh, like, if you slide this shot here a frame and then I can extend that vowel. Or, you know, it was all. It was very like, nitpicky stuff to make it fit in her mouth perfectly so and make it seem as if she was singing it live. But later on in the show, in the numbers in, you know, that you guys haven't seen yet, but in episodes eight and 10, there was a whole. They did everything live on set. And Shelly and I, as we were cutting it, we would cut in the production tracks along with the pre record. And we did a whole like Frankenstein of, oh, this is good here. And this sync is okay, but, oh, that he's not matching the prerecord here. So, like, we got to use the production here. And in the end, it ended up being a whole even, like syllables where it would be like prerecord and then production. And it was a whole crazy thing that we had to do with our music editor. And then one of the music directors, I.

[B]

Or talking to him.

[C]

Oh, yeah, He'll. He'll have a lot to say about that.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. Because even though we thought our stuff was good, we're like, oh, this is pretty good. Once Ian and his team got it with mihalieverman, our music editor, it's like, this is not good. And they went and did all this fine tuning stuff and we were at first a little like, wait, what? We thought it was good, but once you got to the sound stage and you heard it, your jaw just dropped. You're like, oh, yeah, no, this is amazing. And even our mixer, Lindsay Alvarez and Matt Waters, they were like, you don't even understand. It's syllable. There's like one syllable of pre record, one syllable live. They did some additional re recording sessions, you know, to get little bits in sync. So it was a mixture of all of that.

[A]

Sounds very time consuming. Is it very time consuming?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, you know, luckily we weren't the ones doing the, you know, syllable stuff. Like, we were. We were picture editors, so we were focusing on the picture. But yeah, like, after they did that work, it was crazy to listen to how they elevated the numbers. Like, because, you know, like Shelly said, when we were cutting with our Avid and the prerecord, we're like, this is amazing. I mean, it's so good. And then you get to the sound mix and you're like, oh my God, it's like another level. It's. It was amazing.

[B]

So, like, just so I can understand the process. So, like, you get all this footage, you're cutting it together to build. Match their lips and their mouth to the pre record as best as you possibly can. And then from that you send them your mix and they somehow make it all magical. Is that.

[D]

Yeah, absolutely.

[C]

That's exactly right.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

That's so wild.

[D]

There's other tricks too. Like in some of the numbers, we would speed warp, you know, kind of time warp the picture. I might make it to 98 or 97 or 102% to get something in sync. And then the music editor would do the same thing with the dial. You know, the lyrics. You know, he might warp a little bit of a line or something just to get it right. It's a dance you play back and forth with each other. So it's a constant back and forth with music and picture department.

[B]

It's very well done. You can't see any of that.

[A]

Yeah, it makes me wonder too, about, like, I'M sure you both have worked on other musical production things like this. I feel like one thing that sets apart, like, some really good ones and some less good ones are that exact thing where you sudden. Where, you know, it's like the suspension of disbelief goes away for a second because you can see that someone's lip syncing or something, you know, and it doesn't, like, feel. You don't feel the moment as much. Is that what causes that? Is that what makes it feel so good and bad?

[C]

I think so. And I think something that we really focused on for this season was making it feel as diegetic as possible. Like it wasn't, you know, it's not like a musical where all of a sudden, you know, everyone breaks out in song and dance. Like it was supposed to just feel as natural and real as possible. And so mixing the pre records with the production and the way that our mixers were able to blend it all together and make it sound like one track, you know, I think that really helped you believe that it's all live and real. And yeah, like you said, like, you. You just fall into it and you don't question it and you're not taken out by any of, like, lip flaps or, you know, anything weird like that. That'll distract you.

[D]

And it's called putting perspective on the voices, too. So when you're close on Oliver, it might sound a little closer. And then when he's back in the full shot of the stage, there's a little bit more room on it. We call it or reverberation or verb. You know, there's a little bit more verb on it. So it fills the room and then you're closer into the singers and that perspective changes again. So all of that's beautiful, subtle, and it helps it make it feel real. And, you know, you've got, like, background room tones and things like that. It's not just a song playing. There's like air and theater people mumbling and like, things like that to help sit it in the room, the atmosphere.

[A]

Another thing the editors need to be meticulous about is those recaps before Ben fell. What if he grabbed for something? You're using Ben's opening night gift.

[D]

You didn't think I'd need it so soon?

[C]

I did. Security for Ben. Ben wants to say hi.

[D]

And there is a lot of tracking that has to happen because we also have to cut the recaps, you know, like previously on and so a lot of times it won't be till later. Sometimes on the Mixing stage where you're like, wait, that's not the shot we used in the episode we used this shot. Or this sound effect isn't right because we're pulling from past episodes and trying to figure out what to tell you happened in the previously on. So there's a lot of coordination that has to happen to make sure you've got the latest stuff in your recap.

[A]

I've always wondered about the previously on.

[B]

So I watch them carefully because I feel like there's deep clues in there

[A]

to what, you know, what's gonna, you know, what you're gonna see on the show based on what they. What you see in the. In the recap. I feel like a lot of the times. Is that something that you as editors put together the previously on or is John involved in? Like, I need like A, B, C, D and E all in this. Previously on or. How does that work?

[C]

Yeah, well, we start by crafting it well and also we let our assistants get a chance at cutting and they're very involved too, and they watch all the footage and watch the cuts. So we let them kind of take a stab first. And Shelly and I would give notes for our respective episodes as to like, oh, and we would also talk about it beforehand. We would say, you know, okay, here's our episode. Here's what we want to show. We sort of like block it out like that. And then they do a pass. We'd give some notes and then get it to a place where we're happy with it before it's getting presented to John and the other producers. And then, yeah, like, they'll, you know, they'll give thoughts on it. They'll be like, oh, you know, oh, we don't need that in the recap. Or, oh, I think we should put this moment in and, you know, just the normal note process of making sure that they have all of the clues teeing up to whatever episode we're watching.

[D]

Yeah, and it's always interesting because you have a short amount of time. You know, you don't want to eat up your runtime with a minute and a half long recap. You know, you can puzzle out and story wise say, oh, I need these 10 things. And you cut them together and you watch it, you're like, oh, I only need about five of those things. So it's an interesting. And how can you cut it to like, no air? It's got to be super, super fast.

[B]

Are you restricted with runtime the same on, like, this kind of show?

[A]

Yeah, I was wondering about that. Too, because we're. We're kind. You guys are running up to, like, 35 minutes right now, too, which is already kind of a stretch. Is. It's still. Is it still. I mean, it's Hulu, so technically, could be. There's no, like, AD. Yeah, you know, 37. No, there's no, like, broadcast limits or something.

[C]

The limit was 37. And it has to do with, you know, contracts being like, it's a 30 minute show and it's, you know, it's. It's a money thing. And so it was difficult for certain episodes that came in. You know, I think Shelly and I both had episodes that clocked in on our editor's cut at 45 minutes. And it was like, whoa, like, we have to cut a lot of stuff down. And I mean, granted, they were long scripts to begin with, and we were like. And with all the musical numbers, too, we're like, these songs take up at least three minutes or whatever. And so, yeah, like, when those cuts came in, we were like, okay, we got to get ready to suck all the air out, figure out what we can cut and still tell the story. But, yeah, there was a lot of back and forth with Hulu about like, okay, no, it cannot be longer than this. Like, this is your cutoff. And so then we go back with John, we're like, okay, what can we lose? What can we lose?

[A]

You're like, how about 38?

[C]

Yeah, would have been nice.

[A]

Is there anything that you can remember, like a baby you had to kill in one of your cuts that you can tell us about?

[B]

Shelley's got one.

[C]

I had one in episode three that did not make it in that I was kind. I struggled to let it go. But it was like the time thing, the length, we had to lose stuff. And it's the scene after they have their rehearsal and Loretta walks off and then Charles and Oliver, he's like, what do I do? I don't know what to do. And Charles is like, oh, I could step in and, you know. You know, I could make them think that I hate you and I'll get them to talk. And. And then it cuts to Mabel and Tobert in the closet. So there's a scene in between there where Steve goes up to the cast and he is just ridiculous trying. And he, like, invites them up for, like, you know, drinks and a cheese board. And they. It was just hysterical dialogue and, you know, him acting like a fool. And I loved it. And, you know, I was like, we need it. We need to see him invite them up to the apartment. Otherwise, like, oh, and they're like, you don't need it. Like, you're gonna get that. He invited them up to the apartment. I'm like, okay, fine. So that one didn't stay in. But it was a super funny scene. I mean, it was just Steve being Steve Martin, and it was a cute scene.

[B]

It's time for a break. When we come back, let's hear some theories.

[A]

Welcome back. Now it's time for, I guess it's our version of the whodunit summit, but it's not the whodunit summit anymore because we're doing that.

[B]

It's like theory. Theory shmery.

[A]

That's ridiculous. No, I was thinking maybe the theory airy because, like, eerie airy because the air. An airy is like where an eagle perches. So it's like a theory airy.

[D]

Maybe.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

Continue the accusation station.

[B]

Oh, that's fun. I like that much more.

[A]

You like that better than theory airy?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Accusation station.

[B]

The act. Well, I'd love to. Maybe other people have opinions on this.

[A]

Yeah. What should we call it?

[B]

Yeah, what should we call it? Let us know. But my vote currently for the accusation station.

[A]

Okay, so let's read some highlights from the emails.

[B]

Thank you to everyone that shot us an email. And if you are interested in reaching out to us, only murdersrawhutmedia.com that's how you can get a hold of us.

[A]

Yeah, Send us an email. Send us a voice memo. Send us a gif. I guess you could. You could do that. Anyways, this theory is from Kate McManus. And I thought this was really interesting because this didn't even cross my mind, but she says, what if the person that poisoned Ben is a different person than the final murderer? That's a great question.

[B]

Interesting, I think. I think very plausible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe two different people trying to get to Ben.

[A]

Yeah. You know, really interesting.

[B]

And maybe it's teamwork or maybe it's like just two separately angry people.

[A]

Yeah, maybe. Thanks, Kate.

[B]

Thank you, Kate. This one's from Maria. She is seemingly very suspicious of Kimber, and she thinks that there's going to be a potential investigation with the trio and Kimber and Ben. And maybe something happened between Kimber and Ben. I don't know. I don't know.

[A]

Maria noticed that Kimber looked very scared of Ben at the after party and that she shouldn't have been so frightened if she was scorned. And so maybe there's more to the Ben Kimber relationship.

[B]

Meets the eye But Maria says that her, her prime suspect right now is Ben's brother Dickie, which I. I feel it.

[A]

She says, no reasons, just vibes.

[B]

Just vibes.

[A]

Thank you for that, Maria.

[B]

And again, thanks to everyone else for the emails. We are going to now open up the Reddit.

[A]

Yes. So on Reddit they have this thing called theories Thursdays. So we're gonna be a week behind when we do these just because of timing. So these are some of the interesting theories we found in the subreddit. And obviously there's a bunch there. Go there yourself, check it out. It's Reddit.com r OnlyMurderShulu. Scope it out, but we're just gonna read a few, a few of the highlights, right?

[B]

Yes. Some of the ones that are standing out to us.

[A]

Yeah. This One from Repsol Rapsel 79, he's got five theories.

[B]

He.

[A]

Oh, I don't know.

[B]

Or she.

[A]

Yeah, this, this.

[B]

Or they.

[A]

This Redditor has five theories, but the

[B]

one I really like. Well, I guess one and two of this is really good. But. But number two is the one that stands out the most to me. Loretta is Ben's mom or former nanny and jealous AF of him.

[A]

Yeah, they have like a lot of tension. Yeah, I liked their number one, which is that Ben was not actually fired from Brazos or was not fired by. Because of Charles, because Charles doesn't recall it. And I think he would never get a kid fired. I wonder if SZ was posing as Charles.

[B]

Oh my gosh.

[A]

Sz.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, that's good. I like that.

[A]

I also like, documentary dude is working on a takedown of Ben. That's Tobert.

[B]

I really think that could be true, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like why was he recording during that argument? Or why did. I don't know. I think that there's something to that.

[A]

Yeah. And then also they say Kimberly is a red herring, as are the producers. What do you think? Do you think Kimber's a red herring?

[B]

I do.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I do.

[A]

This is another interesting one from uterry20. They say, I haven't figured out the exacts, but I feel like Oliver's heart monitor is a Chekhov's gun. Like maybe he's about to be killed, presses it, it calls for help or it blocks a stab, it makes us think he's dead.

[B]

You know, the Chekhov's gun thing, I think that's interesting. Sorry, I'm distracted because I am looking at more theories.

[A]

Okay, well, what else?

[B]

Okay, this one here from EMD 0887. They have two theories. But one of them, Ben's tattoos. Ben has a few tattoos on his hands. Sometimes they look dark, sometimes they are faded. And in the scene where he collapsed on stage and the camera is above him, he doesn't appear to have any tattoos on his hands. This could be because it was filmed last season before character was fleshed out. Anyone think it could be a clue? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Tattoos or.

[A]

I wonder if it's like makeup, hand makeup for a play for the detective role.

[B]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah.

[A]

Interesting. That's an interesting question. I don't know.

[B]

A lot of people really suspicious of Dickie.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Here's another one from you. Retro replacement evolve. Number one suspect is the brother. He's tired of being pushed around, so he pushes his brother off the elevator shaft. I like that. That symmetry for a red herring. They think Loretta and Tobert, he's solely there so we can see his camera footage. Craziest, over the top theory that you know will never happen, but you kind of hope does. Tell us about this one. Okay, so here's the. Loretta's connected to Ben, most likely a previous nanny or caretaker. I mean, she's the nanny in the musical. So wouldn't it be like too obvious to make her a nanny?

[B]

Ben's nanny?

[A]

Yeah. Right. I don't know. Because she's the nanny. She sings the nanny's lullaby.

[B]

It's just that, like we. Oh, but they would. They would recognize each other. Like you would think that they would have. We would have seen that in episode one when he calls her a snake.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's like.

[A]

Or when he comes in to the table read in episode one and he tries to get her fired off the set.

[B]

Right, exactly.

[A]

Like you think he would know her if they know each other.

[B]

As you know, people are saying, maybe mom, maybe nanny, you know, and so it's like you would think. Yeah, I don't know. Are they acting?

[A]

There. There does seem to be something.

[B]

Something, something. There is something.

[A]

Yeah. All right. I'm not going to read this whole thing, but you guys can check it out. Oh, this is an interesting one. This is from Ualu Khanat. I don't know if I said that right. But they say the reviewer lady mentioned knowing and meeting the producers at Ben's funeral. This suggests she knows them, and I suspect we'll find out later. She let one or both of them know about her review before Ben's murder. And this specifically is related to his first murder attempt on stage to Preserve. The producer sends image for his first production, but effectively actively just ending it before it could be bad. So that gives motive to producer Donna. Donna. Yeah, because she's trying to protect her son's image.

[B]

I like that.

[A]

That hadn't crossed my mind.

[B]

No, me either. Okay. Yeah. I don't see anyone saying anything about the hanky.

[A]

Right. Yeah. Because I noticed that right away when his body falls, I was like, he's holding on to a hanky.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I remember. But. But no one else is catching this hanky situation. And I'm curious to see how it's gonna evolve because now we're definitely suspicious of Kimber because Charles found all the hankies. But anyway, no one's. No one noticed the hanky.

[A]

Oh, you remember I also wanted to do that things we noticed segment.

[B]

Oh, right. That is one thing we noticed.

[A]

Yeah, well, that was like in episode one and two, but for episode episode three, things we Noticed.

[B]

What'd you notice in episode three?

[A]

I noticed when they're going through the murder board, they're very self aware. And Charles says, another female killer. That's so done. Because we had GN in season one.

[B]

Yeah. Poppy.

[A]

Poppy. In season two. If we have another female murderer, do they just hate women?

[B]

They must.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The show is very aware of itself. It's good. It's good.

[A]

I mean, the other thing. The other important thing is who is Ben talking to on that tape, man?

[B]

Yes. Who, like, who could be in that room? If he and Kimber had a thing, she could be in that room. Which is what I feel like the episode is trying to convince us of. But it could obviously be dicky.

[A]

No, it wouldn't be dicky because it sounds like there's like some sexual tension between them and that tape that isn't there. Because he's like something like, you look sweet, but you're bad and you're gonna ruin my career.

[B]

Which also sounds like Loretta. It's kind of how he was talking to her, you know, when he calls her a snake. But.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

[B]

But also how he talks. It's also how he talks to Charles, right?

[A]

No, but he. I mean, but there's like a sexual.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[C]

So.

[A]

So I guess if maybe that's why it's gonna ruin his career. Because he's.

[B]

Cancer canceled.

[A]

No, not because he's canceled. Because like, you know, if he's kind of like a sex symbol and then he comes out as, you know, that's like a gay relationship. I don't know.

[B]

Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. You know, who would ruin his career? You know, I don't know. Maybe I'm overthinking it.

[B]

Who would ruin his career?

[A]

I don't know. Anyways, and then Kimberly sounds like, what is Kimber gonna do at the end? She's like, you know, you need to, like, snuff it out or something.

[B]

Yeah, she.

[A]

What is she planning? What is she gonna do?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

She's looking very suspicious.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Those are all my. Those are all my things.

[B]

Those are great. Those are great. Okay, well, good job, everybody. Thank you for your contributions to the theories Thursdays in the Only Murders subreddit.

[A]

Thank you for your emails. Send us more. Only murdererstrawhutmedia.com and we'll see you next week. Yeah, we'll see you next week for episode four A and B. Bye. Bye.

[B]

Only Murders in the Pod is a production of Straw Hut Media. This episode was written, edited and hosted by Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillotson, with additional editing and sound mixing by Daniel Ferreira. Motion graphics for promotional materials are by Ali Ahmed with graphic design by Mohammed Samir. Our associate producer is Stephen Markley. Original music by Kyle Merritt, and only Murders Theme music by Siddhartha Khosla. Big, big thanks to John Hoffman, Javier Salas, Emily Leets, Yasmin Azarakish, Lydia McMahon, Cindy Nabor and the rest of the Hulu team. And thanks to Keener and kk. We wish you were with us this season.

[A]

We.

[D]

Sa.