S3 E4: The White Room (Part 1)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

S3 E4: The White Room (Part 1)

Date: August 23, 2023
Host(s): Maggie Bowles, Ryan Tillotson
Guests: John Hoffman (Co-creator, Showrunner, Producer), Dana Covarrubias (Costume Designer)

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Episode Overview

This episode takes fans behind the scenes of Only Murders in the Building's Season 3, Episode 4: "The White Room." Host Maggie Bowles and co-host Ryan Tillotson welcome showrunner John Hoffman and costume designer Dana Covarrubias for a lively and detail-rich discussion. Topics include Steve Martin’s unique musical moment, Mabel’s iconic fashion, the evolution of Cinda Canning, and the hidden layers that make the show’s mystery and comedy tick.

"We’re still mining for clues and trying to figure out who the killer is, before all is revealed in the season finale."
— Maggie Bowles (00:33)

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Episode 4 Breakdown

• Episode Recap (01:38 – 03:23)
  • Cinda Canning (Tina Fey) returns, now blonde and self-described as "enlightened."
  • Mabel searches for a very expensive, all-white apartment; she’s bombarded by mysterious calls and texts.
  • Joy (Charles' partner) moves into Charles’ apartment—with 62 fish, a trampoline, and exercise balls—while Charles struggles to learn a challenging patter song for the play.
  • Oliver plans a perfect date for Loretta.
  • Charles enters a surreal "White Room" while performing—the onset of stage fright—leading to lost memory and awkward mishaps, like accidentally proposing to Joy.
  • The trio investigates at the theater, uncovering secrets about Ben’s endorsement and a threatening lipstick message in Ben’s dressing room.
  • Big reveal: The lipstick used to write “fucking pig” on Ben’s mirror belongs to Joy.
  • Mabel is approached by Cinda to co-host a true crime podcast titled “Bloody Mabel.”
  • Howard delivers the memorable line: "Nothing I hate more than an incomplete set." (03:25)

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Musical Comedy Meets Murder Mystery

The Patter Song & "The White Room"

• Why music is different this season:

  • Songs are purposefully integrated into storylines and character arcs, not just used randomly for spectacle.
  • Charles’ (Steve Martin) struggle with the patter song mirrors his real-life anxiety: stage fright and commitment issues.
  • The patter song—titled "Which of the Pickwick Triplets Did It?"—brings together Broadway legends Benj Pasek, Justin Paul, Marc Shaiman, and Scott Whitman for the first time.
  • Anticipation builds for fans to hear the full song later in the season.

  "Steve was tasked now in his 70s, to do a song that is very, very challenging ... to keep it very Steve Martin, but also very Charles Hayden Savage, but also very Oliver Putnam, who would have written it for Death Rattle Dazzle."
  — John Hoffman (05:32)

  • Loretta’s connection to "Little Shop of Horrors" and the idea of bringing heart to eccentric musical theater are discussed as inspirations.

  "Making this into a musical is odd, Oliver, but ironically, that might be what makes it accessible."
  — Howard (06:36)

• "The White Room" explained:

  • It’s a term describing an actor’s out-of-body experience from stage fright or anxiety, leading to a total blank during a performance.
  • John Hoffman and other actors, including Matthew Broderick, have personally experienced it.
  • For the episode, this becomes a visual manifestation of Charles' panic about Joy moving in and his role in the musical.

  "You can zone out ... and there are moments when either—it's usually in fear or a bit of stage fright takes over—and you lose your mind."
  — John Hoffman (08:46)

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Costume Design: Pop Culture, Theater, and Sweater Obsession

How Season 3’s Looks Evolved

• Charles:

  • His wardrobe features deeper reds and purples, symbolizing his attempt to step out of his comfort zone and facing personal change. Livelier hat bands and louder shirt patterns hint at his attempts to adapt.
  • When he "breaks," he literally and metaphorically loses color—ending up in the pure, colorless White Room.

• Oliver:

  • Inspiration comes from 1970s Broadway director vibes—vests, rolled shirt sleeves, and a lively, participatory look. His costumes reflect a "hands-on director" rather than a leisure-loving Broadway eccentric.

• Mabel:

  • This is her “detective arc”—with the guys distracted, she steps into the sleuth role, and her wardrobe leans heavily on detective aesthetics.
  • All of Mabel’s looks this season are inspired by specific Broadway shows or musical films—a hidden challenge for eagle-eyed fans.

  "Almost every look of hers directly correlates to some Broadway show or musical theater piece."
  — Dana Covarrubias (17:16)

• Cinda Canning's Transformation:

  • Heavily inspired by the concept of being "goopified" (a nod to Gwyneth Paltrow’s GOOP brand).
  • Costume notes called for her to be "dripping in cashmere," hence the all-white, luxurious, Santa Fe/Coastal Grandma aesthetic—mirroring Charles’ white, anxiety-induced mental space.

  "It's like Coastal Grandma meets, like, Santa Fe hippie who does ayahuasca but also is a millionaire."
  — Dana Covarrubias (19:50)

  • Fun detail: Cinda's minions also echo her look—posing in blonde wigs and white.

Sourcing Character Wardrobes

• Mabel’s Sweaters:

  • Highly curated from vintage shops, especially for their 70s/80s flair.
  • Many pieces also come from The Outnet and The RealReal for high-end, discounted finds; some costumes are vintage scores from travels.
  • Fast fashion sometimes necessary for multiples, but the team strives for sustainability and unique finds.

  "The sweaters then just had a lot of character ... You can walk in a store and it's just like the Mabels come out to you—they appear from the rack to you."
  — Dana Covarrubias (23:12)

Notable Fashion Quotes

• Howard (on Mabel’s sweaters):

  "Let me guess. A fluffy number, vaguely shapeless splashes of yellow and orange that have no business working, but somehow they work. My god, do they work. Jesus H. Christ." (22:36)

• On Cinda's Goop Look:

  "Cinda has been goopified … dripping in cashmere." — Dana Covarrubias (18:28, 18:44)

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Behind the Scenes & Production Challenges

• Keeping Designs Straight:

  • The show’s non-linear shooting schedule and complex overlapping plots make costume tracking a challenge.
  • Dana relies on a dedicated team of assistants and personal cheat sheets to maintain continuity.

  "There's like 10 plots going on at once."
  — Dana Covarrubias (22:27)

• Vintage Shopping as a Team Sport:

  • Both Maggie and Dana bond over their love of thrifting and buying secondhand clothes, mirroring the on-screen fashion sensibility.

  "Every time I travel, I'm like, take me to the thrift store."
  — Maggie Bowles (25:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Steve Martin’s Musical Challenge:

  "Steve was tasked now in his 70s, to do a song that is very, very challenging … and he performs it unbelievably well."
  — John Hoffman (05:32)

• Howard fangirling over Mabel’s sweater game:

  "My god, do they work. Jesus H. Christ." (22:36)

• On Cinda’s “Goopification”:

  "That alone was such inspiration. I think it did also say that she was, quote, dripping in cashmere."
  — Dana Covarrubias (18:28 + 18:44)

• Behind the white room concept:

  "You have to roll with what’s happening. Sometimes people just go off ... People have a moment of, 'What the hell did I just do out there?'"
  — John Hoffman (09:36)

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Timestamps of Significant Segments

• Episode recap: 01:38 – 03:23
• Discussion of musical elements & the patter song: 03:59 – 08:21
• Origin and meaning of 'The White Room': 08:34 – 12:03
• Interview with costume designer Dana Covarrubias: 13:35 – 25:57
• High fashion & sourcing Mabel’s sweaters: 23:12 – 25:25
• Details on Cinda Canning’s 'goopified' look: 17:14 – 20:37
• Fashion trivia & personal vintage stories: 24:24 – 25:25

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is playful, hyper-detailed, and full of mutual admiration between hosts and guests. The team’s love for both the comedic and the mysterious elements of "Only Murders in the Building" permeates the episode, while their nerdy enthusiasm for musical theater and vintage fashion adds layers of charm.
The episode invites fans to look more closely at the clues, costuming, and performances that make the show both a genre sendup and a heartfelt ensemble.

For fans:
Consider re-watching episodes to spot Broadway-inspired outfits or to catch Cinda’s mimicking minions. And if you love Mabel’s sweaters, vintage shopping is the way to go.

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Next episode:
The conversation continues in Part 2, featuring director Adam Shankman and hilarious outtakes with Tina Fey, plus fan theories from across the Only Murders community.

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Transcript

[Maggie Bowles]

Straw Hut Media just for me. What's your favorite thrift or vintage or thrift store in New York?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Mags wants just to know so she could go for herself.

[Maggie Bowles]

This is fully selfish, right?

[Dana Covarrubias]

Right.

[Maggie Bowles]

This is fully selfish. I'm not gonna tell anybody else about it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We're cut this right out.

[Maggie Bowles]

I'm cut this out. We're gatekeeping.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Hello and welcome to Only Murders in the Pod.

[Maggie Bowles]

Have you ever thought about what a terrible name that is?

[Ryan Tillotson]

I'm Ryan Tillotson.

[Maggie Bowles]

I'm Maggie Bowles. And this season is a little different. We still have the same name, but we can't talk to any of the writers or actors, so we're talking to everybody else and we're still mining for clues and trying to figure out who the killer is. Before all is revealed in the season

[Ryan Tillotson]

finale, we'll be talking to directors, editors and other key members of the production team and piecing it all together.

[Maggie Bowles]

Today on the show, we dive into episode four with co creator, showrunner and producer John Hoffman and costume designer Dana Kovarrubius.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We'll talk about Charles Patterson song, the secrets hidden in Mabel's outfits, and the transformation of Cinda Canning.

[Maggie Bowles]

Just a heads up, there will be spoilers for episode four, so listeners, if you haven't watched, hit the pause button, stream it now and come right back. Also, make sure you subscribe to the podcast. We're releasing two episodes per week this season and you won't want to miss anything.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay, let's recap.

[Maggie Bowles]

Episode four, the White Room.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We open with a VO from Cindy Canning. She's back and she's blonde and apparently she's enlightened.

[Maggie Bowles]

Mabel, meanwhile, is looking for a new apartment and it's tiny and all white and I think it's $4,300 per month. Someone keeps calling her and texting her.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Joy has moved into Charles's apartment and she brought along her 62 fish, a trampoline and exercise balls.

[Maggie Bowles]

Charles has to learn a Pattersong and Oliver is trying to perfect date for him and Loretta.

[Ryan Tillotson]

When Charles tries to perform the Pattersong in front of the cast, he loses it and enters into the White room, a weird, surreal place. When he comes to, he's not wearing any pants and he doesn't remember anything.

[Maggie Bowles]

Howard lets the trio into the theater so they can investigate Kimber and check to see if her anti aging serum could have been the poison used on Ben. On opening night.

[Ryan Tillotson]

While at the theater, Mabel talks to Kimber and finds out that Ben had agreed to do an endorsement for her beauty products and Then backed out at last learned that Ben had been freaking out about a red mark on his face on opening night and that it had to be covered up with makeup.

[Maggie Bowles]

Charles and Oliver break into Ben's dressing room and discover that someone wrote fucking pig on his mirror in red lipstick.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We learned that the person who has been calling and texting Mabel is Cinda Canning. She wants to partner with Mabel on

[Maggie Bowles]

a podcast, the bloody Mabel podcast.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And Mabel accidentally lets slip that she's working on Ben's murder with Charles and Oliver.

[Maggie Bowles]

Charles goes back to the white room the next time he performs the song. And then he goes back one more time when he tries to tell Joy that he's not ready for her to move in. But that time, he accidentally proposes to her.

[Ryan Tillotson]

The lipstick that was used to write on Ben's mirror is Joy's.

[Maggie Bowles]

Joy's lipstick.

[Howard]

Nothing I hate more than an incomplete set.

[Maggie Bowles]

Welcome back. Ryan and I, we're not exactly musical people.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You are.

[Maggie Bowles]

No, I'm. I like music, but I'm not like a musical person.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay. All right.

[Maggie Bowles]

Like, I don't like musicals anyways. So we both really appreciated something about this season, which is that no one's just bursting out into song for no reason. So here's John Hoffman.

[John Hoffman]

That's right. So the songs are being presented in ways that are built into our show, either to provide comedy, as in episode four with Steve Martin so brilliantly trying to get a patter song down and more to come there. And brilliantly so. And just having very specific needs that the songs moved our story forward as well. So, like that. So that that's the case of a song is helping tell our character story of his own personal. Both stage fright and fright of committing to a woman, moving into his apartment for the first time in a long time.

[Maggie Bowles]

One thing I was wondering about was we already heard Charles sing in season two with angel and Flip Flops, but it seems like Oliver doesn't have the same confidence in Charles and so gives him this ridiculous patter song, which is so good.

[John Hoffman]

It gets better. Wait till you hear the full thing. You're not going to believe that song. That's a lot of lyrics written by Benj Pasek and Justin Paul and Marc Shaiman and Scott Whitman. Like the. A quadruple threat of Broadway genius. Like, unheard of. And they got together and worked together for the first time to write what is an absolutely stone cold brilliant, insane song. And you'll hear it all before the end of the season.

[Maggie Bowles]

I can't wait.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's gonna be good.

[John Hoffman]

And Steve will. Steve performs it unbelievably well. You can't. It's. And it's. It marries Charles in many ways. Steve was tasked now in his 70s, to do a song that is very, very challenging and in all ways to keep it very Steve Martin, but also very Charles Hayden Savage, but also very Oliver Putnam, who would have written it for Death Rattle Dazzle. Which of the Pickwick triplets did it? Who of the crew would commit this crime? My little frat McIntyre goes fat. It's a sorry little story for a nursery rhyme. West of the Picnic. The notion that we talked about before regarding this patter song, once we knew that Oliver was going to turn it into a musical, he knew everything had to be a little bit more extreme. And we get into that when Loretta comes and says she was in the original company, Little Shop of Horrors, which was equally insane, but it can work as long as you keep the heart of the thing together.

[Howard]

Making this into a musical is odd, Oliver, but ironically, that might be what makes it accessible. You know, I was in the original cast of Little Shop of Horrors when they were workshopping it back then, they were calling it Eat Me Seymour. Feed Me Seymour. That was it.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah. Feed Me.

[Howard]

And nobody got that show either, you know, because it's Singing Plant. It was just like Lunacy. But it worked. Why? Because at heart, it's just a simple story of a boy who would do anything for the girl he loves. You know, it didn't matter how big and loud and crazy it was. It was just because it felt true.

[John Hoffman]

But the idea that the one baby at the top of the lighthouse now had to become triplets really delights me and delighted me. And so then it became a question of. With Charles playing the constable in town, in the Nova Scotian town with the lighthouse that he for one moment would have like. We have to consider the possibility that one of the babies committed the murder. So the idea of a song, and it was. I remember being in the shower and then like running to work and going, okay, the song is called which of the Pickwick Triplets Did It? Because we knew it was at the Pickwick Lighthouse. And that's going to be the song. And that's all I'm going to say, and we'll talk about it a lot. But the composers and I talked about all of the things that that song had to hold. But the idea seemed very right for an Oliver Putnam production of Death Rattle that the. The song, which of the Pickwick Triplets did it?

[Maggie Bowles]

Would be which of the Pickwick triplets did it.

[John Hoffman]

I'm hoping that there's, like, TikTok challenges coming.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, that would be great.

[John Hoffman]

Once the song is there, that there will be kids around.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's a great idea.

[John Hoffman]

The country doing little challenges for that song.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Staying on the song and Charles's anxiety around it. We learn about the. The White Room. Is this a real thing? I've never heard of this before.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah, it's. From what I understand, the white room is more of a new framed term for a thing that happens, which is just you can zone out when you're in a show. And if you're in a long run of a show, particularly, and, you know, it's not hard to imagine, like, you kind of go on autopilot. And there are moments when either. And it's usually in fear or a bit of stage fright takes over and you lose your mind. I've had an experience. I used to be an actor, and I had not acted for 10 years when my friend Lisa Krone asked me to be in her first Broadway production of a play she wrote and starred in called, well, also starring Jane. Howdy Shell, who plays Bunny Folger.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Love, Jane.

[John Hoffman]

So I was making my Broadway debut in this show, and I hadn't been on a stage in 10 years, and I had a moment during a dress rehearsal where I thought I did. I had completely. The whole thing seemed preposterous to me that you could walk out on a stage and say lines are written, and the whole foundational part of performing made no sense to me in my mind. And I was standing backstage ready to make my entrance where I am to talk a lot as this character in a scene, and I couldn't remember a thing I was supposed to say. And yet now I'm hearing my cue and I'm walking out on stage, and it's. Something's coming out of my mouth and it's the. And no one in the audience would recognize it, but my mind is going crazy. So I could acknowledge a feeling or a anxiety panic attack like that taking over when the focus is on you to deliver. And that White room reference is like. Sass used to talk about, like, coming off stage and going, wow, Sally, you know, what the hell? What the hell? You really went to the White Room on that one. And Sally's like, I know, but did I get everything right? Did I say anything right? People will have a moment of, like, what the hell did I just do out there?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Wow.

[John Hoffman]

And I've talked to a lot of people. Matthew Broderick has talked about that too, where, you know, you're, you're, you're out there as an actor on a stage and you have to roll with what's happening. And sometimes people just go off to expect everyone all the time to be right there with it and to be like, oh, my God, what am I doing? I was just thinking about what I need to bring home for dinner. Late night dinner. And I'm on stage in the middle of a scene, but I don't remember, did I do the scene? That idea was really intriguing to me for. And I knew we were going to call an episode the White Room. And it was going to be built around Charles, and he would be panicking, really, about joy moving in and what that meant for his life and whether he could do that successfully or a lot of fish. And a lot of fish. Exactly. 62, if I'm not wrong.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, that's the perfect number.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, exactly.

[John Hoffman]

But, yeah, so that notion seemed like a perfect bit of potential for a Steve Martin feast comedically, and that's what he gave us. Whatever I did, I'm sorry.

[Maggie Bowles]

Sorry.

[Howard]

Charles Hayden Savage. I'd be honored. The answer is, yes, I would love to marry you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

This is a fun twist. We're going to take a quick break, and when we return, we talk to costume designer Dana Covarrubias about how our trio's looks have changed over the years and where Mabel gets her sweaters.

[Maggie Bowles]

The question on everybody's minds. Welcome back. Before we get to our conversation with Emmy nominated costume designer Dana Covarrubias, we should let you know there's a little bit of wrestling with her mic. And I want you to know I tried to tell Ryan and he shushed

[Ryan Tillotson]

me, so I blame him and I blame Dana's hair. How's it been since we last talked to you? How's everything? How's murders?

[Dana Covarrubias]

It's been amazing.

[Maggie Bowles]

It's.

[Dana Covarrubias]

It's like, you know, when I first booked the job many years ago, it was, like, such a blessing and, like, could not believe that it happened, you know, I mean, I was just pinching myself. Of course. I grew up on Three Amigos was like, one of my dad's favorite movies ever. And we watched it all the time. And I'm a huge Selena fan. And I was just like, I can't believe this is happening. And now every season that comes out, when I get the scripts, I'm like, how does it get bigger and better?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Did anything change for our trio at all in your world in season three?

[Dana Covarrubias]

Yeah, I mean, it's always hard because we always usually start the season where we left the previous season off. So we don't have a lot of time, you know, to play with as far as, like, our characters growing a ton or changing a ton. But something always does get resolved at the end of the last season. So for Charles, I think we really wanted to push his color a little bit forward, and then I knew that Charles was going to be brought to this point where he was going to have a breakdown, essentially, and he wasn't going to be able to handle, you know, the musical and joy moving in, all of that. And so we wanted to start the season off with Charles trying more color. And this season, we have him in a lot of deeper reds and purples, which is really more.

[Ryan Tillotson]

All of her colors, Mabel and all of her colors.

[Dana Covarrubias]

Yeah. So you can see sometimes in his hat bands, we make custom hat bands for all of his hats. And some of his shirts had louder patterns this season and brighter colors in there. And all of that was sort of gearing towards the idea that he's trying to push himself into this world that he's really not comfortable with. But he's just trying and trying and trying. He's going more colorful, more colorful until he gets to a breaking point, and he can't. And then he's in the white room, and he's totally lacking color in that. So that's sort of his journey in the season, is finding his comfort zone. And Oliver, you know, this is. In a lot of ways, this is kind of Oliver's season, in my mind, because it's all about theater and it's all about Broadway. So for him, you know, I really wanted to hone in on his director vibes. And for that, my inspiration was mainly fab sauci and what he would wear at rehearsals. And a lot of times, he would wear a vest and just a dress shirt under it with, you know, sleeves rolled, getting his hands in there, getting, you know, sweaty and dirty with the actors or dancers. So he's kind of leaning towards a working director, you know, whereas I would say the previous two seasons, he was a little more of a leisure, a leisure man, a leisure gentleman. And Mabel. Mabel goes through a big change this season. She, you know, in season two, she was really looking to see whether she fit into the art world, and I think she figured out that that wasn't quite fully who she is. And this season, I think with the two guys being so occupied with the play, she really has to take the reins and become the main detective of the trio. So I think this season, she's really honing in on her sort of detective looks and vibes. So that's kind of where we were going with her wardrobe this season. And then the other main sort of fun Easter egg we had with Mabel's costumes this season, how we did with season two, we were inspired by Hitchcock. For all of her looks this season, everything is inspired by a specific Broadway show or musical theater or musical film.

[Maggie Bowles]

So fun.

[Dana Covarrubias]

Yeah. So almost every look of hers directly correlates to some Broadway show or musical theater piece.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dana Covarrubias]

Which is really fun. And I'm excited for the audience to maybe know that and then try to figure out what they are.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, that's so exciting. I can't wait for listeners and fans of the show to try to, like, match the outfits to the Broadway shows. And also, we didn't talk to you after season two, so I didn't know about this Hitchcock thing, which makes me want to go back and watch season two again and see if I can place all the Hitchcock outfits, because I. I've watched. You know, I've watched a lot of Hitchcock films in my life. That's so fun. That's so fun. Episode four is when Cinda Canning comes back in, and she is absolutely absurd. Tina Fey in her blonde wig and her, like, flowy hippie.

[Ryan Tillotson]

She's grown up. She's evolved. She's evolved.

[Dana Covarrubias]

Yes.

[Maggie Bowles]

When I created my sanctuary, I invested in fluffy towels, a fleet of soy candles, and a jade egg that is currently nestled in my privates. Can you tell us about that look for Cinda?

[Dana Covarrubias]

Yeah, that was totally scripted. And, you know, here's an example of why our writers are so essential and amazing, because, you know, there's just one line in there that says, cinda has been goopified.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, it's good goop.

[Dana Covarrubias]

You know, being Gwyneth Paltrow's company. And so that just. That alone was such inspiration. I think it did also say that she was, quote, dripping in cashmere. So. Yeah, I mean, that's just so inspiring. And I did a lot of fun research for that and made some really fun mood boards. And then, you know, the fitting for that was so fun because that's the White Room episode. And so there's all this correlation with Charles in white, and Mabel's in white in the apartment in the first scene, and it's like, all the white walls, and. And then Cinda's in white or off white. And so the fitting for that was just fun because I just basically Got to go to, you know, Saks and Bloomingdale's and just pull everything that was, like, high end and white and cashmere and, you know, with a touch of, like, Santa Fe, like, rich lady who lives in Santa Fe vibes.

[Maggie Bowles]

Martha Stewart chic, kind of.

[Dana Covarrubias]

It's like Coastal Grandma.

[Maggie Bowles]

Coastal Grandma. That's the one I was looking for.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I've never heard that.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, it's a thing.

[Dana Covarrubias]

Meets, like, Santa Fe, like, hippie who does ayahuasca, but also is a millionaire. So, yeah, we had so much fun with that. And Tina and I had a blast in that fitting. She's one of the most fun people to fit. She's just hilarious, obviously, and very, very, like, willing to go there with you. And she was nervous about the blonde wig. I think that was like her. But we tried. We, like, had the wig with the fitting, and we tried the clothes on with the wig and made sure everything would work. But, yeah, I thought it turned out hilarious. And then I don't know if you caught this in the episode, but just like in the other seasons, how her minions all dress like her, this season, you catch a little glimpse of the minion with her in the recording studio, and she also is blonde and wearing all white.

[Maggie Bowles]

I didn't catch it.

[Dana Covarrubias]

Pretty hilarious.

[Maggie Bowles]

I gotta go back and see it now. So much attention to detail.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You seem to have a good recollection of the episode and what's happening in it, but they're all being shot at different. That must be hard to keep track of. How does that process work for you?

[Dana Covarrubias]

It's really hard. Especially, I think this season was very challenging because the finale episode, which I definitely won't talk about, but is a very big, big episode. And we knew a little bit about it, but we didn't actually get the script until, I want to say, a week before. We shot it, like, very, very late. But we knew sort of what was gonna be happening in it. So the entire season, we're sort of prepping for that and then also still prepping for, you know, the current episodes that we're shooting. And of course, there's a million different time periods. We have, of course, a whole new cast coming in who are playing our actors, you know, all these new characters. So, yeah, it's really hard to keep it all in your brain. But I have amazing assistants who help me.

[John Hoffman]

That's it.

[Dana Covarrubias]

You know, I had two amazing assistant designers this season, shout out to Abby and Liana, and they're just. They keep me. They keep me on it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Good. Okay.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's a lot. That's a lot.

[Dana Covarrubias]

And then I take. And then I forget everything, of course, because it's been four months since we wrapped and right when the show is about to come out, I sit down for a couple days and remind myself of everything and take notes and.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, okay. I have a little.

[Dana Covarrubias]

I have a little cheat sheet.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Nice. Good, good. That's similar to ours, probably. Yeah, well, maybe not.

[Maggie Bowles]

It's a lot.

[Dana Covarrubias]

It's a lot to keep in your head. There's like 10 plots going on at once.

[Maggie Bowles]

You like sweaters, right, girl?

[Howard]

You know I like sweaters.

[Maggie Bowles]

It was actually one of my sweaters.

[Howard]

Let me guess. A fluffy number, Vaguely shapeless splashes of yellow and orange that have no business working, but somehow they work. My God, do they work. Jesus H. Christ.

[Dana Covarrubias]

I love your sweaters.

[Howard]

Go on, I'm listening.

[Maggie Bowles]

I loved how Howard fangirls out on Mabel's sweaters this season because she does. Her sweater game is unmatched, you know, And I just love that there's a fan within the show because I'm sure there's a lot of fans in the real world too.

[Dana Covarrubias]

Oh yes.

[Maggie Bowles]

Where does, where does Mabel get her sweaters?

[Dana Covarrubias]

We get a lot of them from vintage shops, you know, because I find like a lot of the sweaters I don't. Stuff from the 70s and 80s. Like I think the sweaters then just had a lot of character. And yeah, I find, I find more inspiration looking for sweaters at like some good New York City vintage shops, but really all over. I mean we really source her costumes from everywhere. I would say like the place we mostly buy stuff for her from is the outnet. If you're familiar with theoutnet.com, it's great. It's part of the net. A Porter, Mr. Porter company. But it's kind of, you know, highly discounted higher end clothing. And we find a lot of great stuff for her on that website. But yeah, just all over. I mean you can, you can walk in a store and it's just like the Mabel's come out to. They appear from the rack to you. You're like, oh, that's what Mabel wears. That's what.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You know.

[Dana Covarrubias]

It's so fun that she's become so clearly defined as how she dresses.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Are you the kind of person like you're vacationing in Europe or something and you walk into a store and you're like, I gotta get this for Mabel or for something, you know. Oh yeah, yeah.

[Dana Covarrubias]

Oh yeah, for sure. Oh yeah, all the time. I mean One of my favorite pieces on the whole season was the scarf that Oliver wears to the funeral in. What is that? Episode two. It's this black scarf with a cream design on it that's New York City's cityscape. It's like black silk, and then it has this great white cityscape on it. And I found that months before the show started at a random vintage shop up in Hudson Valley area and was like, oliver must wear this. And then, you know, it's fun to figure out a spot for it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You would have fun with that job if you had it for, like, a little bit.

[Maggie Bowles]

I'm a vintage. I'm a vintage nerd junkie. Every time I travel, I'm like, take me to the thrift store.

[Dana Covarrubias]

Yes, me too.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And she comes back with, like, new luggage.

[John Hoffman]

And.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, I had to check a bag because I found a great thrift store. I'm a. I try to buy everything secondhand. So.

[Dana Covarrubias]

Yeah, yeah, we. Yeah, we try to, too. I mean, especially, like working in tv, you feel a little guilty about all the fast fashion that you kind of have to use because of how fast everything is and how you're trying to save on your budget. So you're, you know, if you have to get 5 of a coat, you know, you kind of have to go to hm.

[Maggie Bowles]

You have to do it.

[Dana Covarrubias]

Yeah, you know, one of those stores. But Zara is a big one for us.

[Maggie Bowles]

As long as it's not Shein, you know.

[Dana Covarrubias]

Yeah, right. Exactly. I try to do vintage. We try to also do a lot of realreal.com. most of Oliver's costumes are from Real.

[Maggie Bowles]

Real cool. Yeah, that checks out.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, that checks out.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Congrats on the noms. All

[John Hoffman]

so big.

[Dana Covarrubias]

It's crazy. Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, thank you.

[Maggie Bowles]

Thanks so much, Dana. It was great to talk to you again.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's it for today. Part 2 of this episode will be out in a couple of days. In that episode, episode, we'll talk to director of episode four, Adam Shankman about some of his favorite moments on set,

[Maggie Bowles]

including some absolutely ridiculous outtakes with Cena Fey. So good. Plus, we'll read some of the theories you guys have sent in by email and from the Only Murders subreddit. See you then.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Bye. Only Murders in the pod is a production of Straw Hut Media. This episode was written, edited and hosted by Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillotson, with additional editing and sound mixing by Daniel Ferreira. Motion graphics for promotional materials are by Ali Ahmed with graphic design by Mohamed Samir, our associate producer is Steven Markley. Original music by Kyle Merritt. And only Murders Theme music by Siddhartha Khosla. Big, big thanks to John Hoffman, Javier Salas, Emily Leets, Yasmin Azarakish, Lydia McMahon, Cindy Nabor and the rest of the Hulu team. And thanks to Keener and kk. We wish you were with us this season.

[Maggie Bowles]

We.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay. Rolling. Ding dong. Ding dong.

[Maggie Bowles]

Perfect. Sounds good, ryan.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Thank you. Wow. Where the hell?

[Dana Covarrubias]

What the hell?

[Maggie Bowles]

What the hell?