S3 E5: Ah, Love! (Part 1)

Summary

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Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

S3 E5: "Ah, Love! (Part 1)" – August 30, 2023

Hosted by Maggie Bowles & Ryan Tillotson (Straw Hut Media)

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Episode Overview

This episode takes listeners behind the scenes of Season 3, Episode 5 ("Ah, Love!") of Only Murders in the Building, with hosts Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillotson. They are joined by showrunner/co-creator John Hoffman, episode director Chris Koch, and director of photography Kyle Wolschlager. Key topics include the blossoming romance between Oliver and Loretta, the production challenges of filming on a ferry, and deep dives into music, on-set chemistry, and the season’s multiple love stories. The episode is filled with playful banter, technical insights, and loving celebration of the show’s craft.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recap & Primary Plot Threads

(01:02 – 02:43)

• Episode 5 Recap: Joy and Charles face growing relationship troubles, highlighted by the mysterious lipstick incident and an awkward conversation about commitment.
• Saz (Jane Lynch) returns and is now "dating" Jan in prison ("sexy glass").
• Oliver and Loretta embark on a first date filled with mishaps—her overcooked pork chop knocks out his tooth, and she has a suspiciously strong dislike for Ben, calling him a "fucking pig".
• Mabel and Tobert stake out Jonathan at a jazz club, observing a suspicious exchange with Ben’s doctor.
• The date moves to a ferry ("The Tooth Fairy"), culminating in a romantic but complicated evening. Oliver discovers Loretta’s scrapbook of Ben Glenroy clippings—raising new suspicions.

2. Oliver and Loretta’s Late-Blooming Romance

(03:11 – 05:10)

• John Hoffman discusses how Oliver’s romance with Loretta is unexpectedly transformative, providing Martin Short and Meryl Streep an opportunity to portray “a tingling sort of late-blooming romance.”

• Notable Quote — John Hoffman (03:13):

  “I think in some ways he's not prepared or expecting or thinking in any way that he's going to have a romantic possibility for himself at this age. ... That arresting moment in episode one where he spots her and they have this instant connection … it has so many meanings for him.”

• Meryl Streep was deeply appreciative of portraying a real, age-appropriate romance:

  "It's the romance—people at this age—that's not twee, that's not about their age, that ... makes perfect sense. And being able to tell that in a funny and sweet real way is what was exciting." — John Hoffman recalling Meryl Streep (04:21)

3. The Ferry Scene—Production Magic and On-Set Chemistry

(13:14 – 16:20, 17:58 – 22:19)

• Director Chris Koch and DP Kyle Wolschlager break down the challenging logistics of filming the pivotal ferry scene:

  • Initial considerations included using green screen or modern LED video walls, which were rejected for a more authentic feel.
  • The production lucked out with a rare, warm, and calm February night on the Hudson.

    “The captain, who has been doing it for 40 years, said, ‘I've never had a night this calm on the Hudson River. ... It was a magical night.’” — Chris Koch (14:23)

  • The on-boat chemistry between Short and Streep was “effortless.”
  • Memorable moment post-shoot:

    “Meryl looks out and starts singing ‘New York, New York.’ And then Marty joins in.” — Chris Koch (15:53)

• Technical details from Kyle:

  • The crew utilized a Technocrane to capture intimate, cinematic shots.
  • Shooting on location allowed for genuine atmosphere, particularly the glistening of the river, which could not be replicated on a stage.
  • The scene was shot between 6pm and 2am, with the crew and cast braving the elements for authenticity.

  • “We just felt coming back into shore that night like we had won the lottery because we lucked out so well on everything and ended up with this really beautiful set of scenes there on the boat.” — Kyle Wolschlager (20:38)

4. Layered Love Stories

(24:42 – 25:56)

• Koch discusses the episode’s exploration of three distinct romantic storylines:
  • Charles and Joy: A relationship with growing tension and possible dissolution.
  • Oliver and Loretta: An unexpected, mature romance.
  • Mabel and Tobert: Young, passionate chemistry.
• On the intimate Mabel scene:

  “The biggest step, emotional kind of reveal for her is to reveal the murder board ... That's her letting him in.” — Chris Koch (25:39)

5. Character Insights, Improv, and Set Design

(26:40 – 30:09)

• Jane Lynch’s Saz: Described as a "goofy delight" by director Koch, with plenty of energy and improvisation.
• The "commit or be committed" game show scene involved clever lighting and set dressing for comedic effect.
• Meryl Streep provided input on Loretta’s apartment set, ensuring everything fit her character’s backstory and status:

  “She's just so lovely about it. She’s like, ‘Oh, I love that chair. But I don't think that my character would have afforded this or that.’ ... She was so attuned to what that character ... little details.” — Chris Koch (29:34)

6. Crafting Suspicion and Keeping the Mystery Alive

(05:27 – 07:02, 23:41 – 24:38)

• Reflecting on the show’s narrative twists, Hoffman hints at more surprises to come:

  “There are several coming with those kinds of twists. ... We have to ask ourselves 19 questions about every possibility—what do you buy, what do you not buy?” (06:15)

• Directors are often left in the dark about the killer’s identity to focus them on characters’ emotional journeys:

  “I didn't want to know who the murderer was. ... Primarily because I want to watch it and I want to enjoy it.” — Chris Koch (23:41)

7. Music and Technical Process

(09:52 – 12:21)

• Koch praises series composer Siddhartha Khosla’s score as "exquisite" and shares how music influences the show’s overall tone and his directing choices.
• The editing process often starts with episodes running several minutes over, which allows the creative team more freedom to sculpt the final product.

8. Thematic Reflections & Notable Quotes

• On the season's recurring theme of love and second chances, especially at unexpected times in life.
• Several lighthearted, meta moments and playful ribbing among guests and hosts—true to the show’s comedic spirit.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Unexpected Romance:
  “It's the romance—people at this age—that's not twee, that's not about their age, that ... makes perfect sense.” — Meryl Streep (via John Hoffman, 04:21)

• On Authentic Production:
  “We wanted to do it practically ... the captain, who has been doing it for 40 years, said, ‘I’ve never had a night this calm on the Hudson River.’” — Chris Koch (14:23)

• On the Magic of the Cast:
  “Meryl looks out and starts singing ‘New York, New York.’ And then Marty joins in. ... How do I just, like, remember this moment?” — Chris Koch (15:53)

• On Directing Without Knowing the Killer:
  “I didn't want to know who the murderer was ... because I want to watch it and I want to enjoy it.” — Chris Koch (23:41)

• On Craft and Collaboration:
  “Everyone we’ve had the privilege to speak to has expressed their own support for SAG and WGA too, including Chris Koch, director of episode five.” — Maggie Bowles (08:11)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:02 – 02:43 | Episode 5 recap and main storylines
• 03:11 – 05:10 | John Hoffman on Oliver & Loretta’s romance
• 13:14 – 16:20 | Chris Koch details ferry shoot; on-set chemistry
• 17:58 – 22:19 | Kyle Wolschlager on technical side of ferry scene
• 24:42 – 25:56 | Koch discusses three romantic storylines
• 26:40 – 30:09 | Insights on Jane Lynch, improv, and set design
• 09:52 – 12:21 | Music’s importance and technical process
• 05:27 – 07:02 | John Hoffman on show’s twists, writing process
• 23:41 – 24:38 | Keeping the director ‘in the dark’ about the killer

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Flow & Tone

The episode maintains a witty, warm, and insightful tone, mirroring the spirit of the show itself. Conversations oscillate between lighthearted banter (including faux-theater confessions and inside jokes) and earnest admiration for cast, crew, and creative process. There’s an emphasis on authenticity—both in character relationships and production craft—and a deep respect for every department’s contribution. The podcast mixes technical details with heartfelt storytelling, making it a rich experience for listeners whether or not they’ve watched the show.

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For Next Time

• Upcoming part two includes a conversation with costume designer Dana Covarrubias and a fan theory discussion ("Accusations Station").
  “Her favorite item of Loretta’s wardrobe was in this episode and you’ll find out what it is.” (31:49)

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This summary covers all essential creative and production-related discussions and moments from "Ah, Love! (Part 1)," offering new and returning fans an engaging deep-dive into the making of Season 3, Episode 5.

Transcript

[Maggie Bowles]

Straw Hut Media. Have you done much work in theater, either growing up or in your career?

[Chris Koch]

I was in the original Broadway cast of Cats.

[Maggie Bowles]

Were you really?

[Chris Koch]

No, I wasn't.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, my God.

[Chris Koch]

I was just listening to that.

[Maggie Bowles]

What? You shocked me. How dare you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That was too dry. Hello and welcome to Only Murders in the Pod.

[Maggie Bowles]

I am Maggie Bowles.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And I'm Ryan Tillotson.

[Maggie Bowles]

And today on the show, we are talking with showrunner and co creator John Hoffman and the director of episode five and six, Chris Koch.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We'll talk about the blossoming romance between Oliver and Loretta. We'll get a glimpse at the production puzzle that was bringing the Tooth Fairy to life with DP Kyle Volschlager. And we'll hear about Meryl Streep's impromptu midnight performance on the Hudson River.

[Maggie Bowles]

But first, a quick recap.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Episode 5. Ah, love.

[Maggie Bowles]

We start with Joy's voiceover and she's talking about love. But she and Charles seem to be having some problems. And he finally asks her about the lipstick and she is very mad. She decides to go taste wedding cakes alone.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But Saz is back and she's dating Jan in prison, apparently.

[Maggie Bowles]

Do sexy glass.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yes.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oliver and Loretta are supposed to have their first date. Oliver gets to Loretta's apartment. It's really cool. But her overcooked pork chop knocks out Oliver's tooth. And she suspiciously describes Ben as a quote, fucking pig.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Meanwhile, Mabel and Tobert are staking out a jazz club where Jonathan is singing. Mabel doesn't believe that Jonathan could be a killer. But then they see him with Ben's celebrity doctor, Dr. C, and they seem to be making some kind of sound.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oliver and Laura's date moves to a

[Ryan Tillotson]

ferry boat, the Tooth Fairy.

[Maggie Bowles]

And she tells him the story about opening night, that they got in a fight and that she called him a fucking pig. And that Ben said that he didn't want to share the stage with nobody.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We learned that Charles punched Ben on opening night after seeing the fight with Loretta. That was the red mark.

[Maggie Bowles]

That was the red mark that Joy had to cover up. And Charles comes clean to Joy about the accidental proposal and she calls off the engagement.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Mabel shows Todbert the murder board and together they add Dr. C. And the big news.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oliver and Loretta. Get it on.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Get it on.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. But then he finds a book in her shelf with all kinds of magazine clippings and newspaper clippings of Ben Glenroy. Ben Glenroy.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oliver.

[Chris Koch]

I'm waiting.

[Maggie Bowles]

Welcome back. What's really special about this episode for us is that love story between Oliver and Loretta. And even though it seems to come with its own set of complications, by the end we're both just so happy to see Oliver finally get some action. Here is John Hoffman. He's the showrunner and co creator. You know him by now.

[John Hoffman]

I think in some ways he's not prepared or expecting or thinking in any way that he's going to have a romantic possibility for himself at this age. And that arresting moment in episode one where he spots her and they have this instant connection where he says, where have you been? It has so many meanings for him. And there's this tingling sort of late blooming romance.

[Maggie Bowles]

Wow.

[Chris Koch]

You know, it is truly amazing that you can charter a yacht in the

[Ryan Tillotson]

greatest city on Earth for $4.

[John Hoffman]

I'll never forget we were on a ferry with Loretta and Oliver and it was a beautiful night to shoot, inexplicably in February in New York on a ferry. And it was 60 degrees. And so we had great good fortune to not be frozen on the Hudson River. And it was beautiful. It was one of those rare nights. But I'll never forget Meryl saying to me, I mean, it's ridiculous. She said thank you for this at the end of shooting that. And I was like, oh, you're very welcome, Meryl Streep, for everything I'm doing for you. So I said, don't, don't start with me on that. Thank you for even suggesting anything of being in the show. But she said, no, I really mean it. It's the romance people at this age that's not twee, that's not about their age, that, that makes perfect sense. And being able to tell that in a funny and sweet real way is what was exciting. And I didn't think about it much until then. But of course I hope the unexpected pairing of Martin Short and Meryl Streep will be a bit of a nice surprise for people to see. And then the way they play it, boy, really bowled everybody over.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, I love that that's their relationship. And that's that scene on the fairy where he tosses his tooth over.

[Maggie Bowles]

The tooth fairy.

[Ryan Tillotson]

The tooth fairy, yeah. And I'm very curious to see how this is going to change, how it's going to pan out. We know things aren't going.

[Maggie Bowles]

We're thinking up to episode five now and the way episode five ends with the, with the book. Yeah. My brain was going through all of the possible scenarios because I think what's a funny thing about coming back to season three of Only Murders says that I feel like I'm a little trained in the storytelling now, where I'm like, well, if we suspect them now, then we could probably cross them off the list. But then I'm thinking, well, but maybe they're going to do a little switcheroo. And, you know, like, with Poppy and Becky Butler, there was a little switcheroo there. So, you know, part of me is, like, just searching my brain for all of the other possible scenarios that this could mean besides what's on the surface, you know? So I think that's.

[John Hoffman]

There are pretty several coming. I promise you that there are several coming with. With those kinds of twists.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. I would expect nothing less.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah, it's one of. Oh, boy. Yeah, it's. There's a. Yeah, there's a. There's several biggies coming that way. I'm excited for you to see it. But, yeah, that is true. And I think the. The viability of anyone in our show being sort of in the spotlight of being a suspect, you know, just that discussion right there. You should have been in a writer's room that way, because it's very much like we have to ask ourselves 19 questions about every possibility of, like, what do you buy? What do you not buy? What do you think we can do to make this believable? What do. It just goes around and around and around.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Chris Koch]

Hey, Joy. Hey. This Ruby Strippers lipstick, did I tell you where we found it? It was backstage.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay.

[Chris Koch]

Yeah, it was in Ben's dressing room, to be exact. I mean, any clue how that would have gotten there?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Hey, Brazos, hang up your badge. Okay? We're on hiatus, remember? And speaking of the writers room, just to reiterate or say better more clearly, I don't know. John Hoffman wears many hats at Murders, and he was able to speak with us as a director and a producer.

[Maggie Bowles]

But we both support the WGA and SAG AFTRA in their demands during this strike. We think they're very reasonable. And we also know that shows like Murders could never exist without their talent and their skill and their hard work. Just like John was saying, Murders is made by its incredible writing staff and actors.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's why this season we're trying to make the best of it by talking to some of the other folks that make this magic happen. We love the show, and we want to honor the hard work of not only those on strike, but also the directors, ADs, crew, costume, production design, camera ops. It really takes a village.

[Maggie Bowles]

And everyone we've had the privilege to speak to has expressed their own support for SAG and WGA2 including Chris Koch, director of episode five. Here he is.

[Chris Koch]

I just came from the Fox. We were picketing this morning on one of my other old shows. So a show that I did years ago called Ordinary Joe a few years back.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, fun. Our friend who was a writer on a. Not in this season, but seasons one and two, actually, he is going today for a Bruce Springsteen picket themed.

[Maggie Bowles]

Picket. Yeah. I don't know.

[Chris Koch]

Oh, my God.

[Ryan Tillotson]

With some other movies.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Find the joy. Find the joy.

[Chris Koch]

But thank you for asking me to do this. This is my first podcast.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, I'm honored. We're honored.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We are honored. Yeah. Thank you for doing it. This is great.

[Maggie Bowles]

And I'm curious. I mean, this looks like a really fun room that you're in. I see you've got like a video.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Thing. Like a video game thing. And then we've got two keyboards. What. What is this room? Where are we?

[Chris Koch]

Yeah, where are we? This. So this is my office in Mar Vista. And this is just crap that I've collected and dragged with me over the years. I do music as a hobby, but. And I have. I have scored a few shows over the years, but it really is something. But then it became work, so I didn't. I didn't want to ruin my favorite hobby.

[Maggie Bowles]

I understand that exact feeling. Yeah.

[Chris Koch]

That's how I first worked with Sid, who scores only Murders, and that he and I did a show together with Dan called the Neighbor, which was an ABC show like years ago.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's so cool.

[Chris Koch]

That's sort of what's going on here. It's a bit of an addiction though, after a while because there's more keyboards than you can see here, so. Oh, you know, it's a real problem.

[Maggie Bowles]

So this season of Murders, I mean, I feel like there's always been a bit of music, but then now this season is like tons and tons of music. What's been your experience with the musical side of this?

[Chris Koch]

Well, there is. There is not. In my episode, I had two very non musical episodes. So this is a perfect topic for me. But I use this as an. As a chance to just rave about. And I have told Sid many times. I think that his score for this show is exquisite. It really is. And. And it's got. It's such a big part of the show. And as a director, when I'm blocking the show and going through the scripts to believe it or not, the music's kind of in my head. It's a big part of like, kind of how you visualize the show.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Interesting.

[Chris Koch]

So he's just done a terrific job with it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Do you get to work closely with Sid when you're like working on the edits and things like that?

[Chris Koch]

I mean, Sid reaches out like he'll if sometimes depends on the episode, you know, in previous shows we've done. But, you know, he'll usually reach out and say, you know, hey, Koch, I'm thinking about trying this kind of a thing or whatever. Or he might ask me. It's more like he might ask what key sequences like I have in mind and stuff. But it's my favorite email to get is from Sid because he's kind of the first one to see the cut before anyone else. So I always know if the episode is working or not.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You know, we talked to Shelly and Peyton. We learned that some episodes this season, like the first cut was like 45 something minutes long. I think the music had a lot to do with that. Maybe. Did you have any of that going into any of your episodes?

[Chris Koch]

Gosh, I mean, I can't honestly remember when. Where they came out. They weren't too. It wasn't too terrible. I mean, there's a sweet spot there. You want them to be a little. You want them to be long. Yeah, because part. It's in a way, like part of the writing process is continuing to craft the story in the edit room, so you want to have enough extra stuff to pull from. So to me, like turning in a director's cut that's like right on time, that's not great either. I think back when I worked on this Is Us with Dan and Sid, I think there was an episode that was 17 minutes over and that was too far. So there's a kind of a sweet spot which is probably like four to six minutes to me is where I would try. And this is really boring workman stuff for a podcast.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But anyway, no, I think that's fascinating.

[Chris Koch]

Four to six minutes is a sweet spot, I think because then the showrunner gets it and he can kind of be like, okay, this gives me. I can see what's working, what's not. And I can take. If I need to remove stuff, I'm not coming. In short.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, Ryan is. Ryan loves to ask the technical questions and then we get to decide later how much of it we're going to leave in the final cut of the episode.

[Chris Koch]

You know, I don't that that whole thing I said is definitely out. But I love. But Shelly and Peyton were absolutely a delight to work with.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We're going to take a quick break. When we come back The Tooth Fairy in the Return of Saz Pataky.

[Maggie Bowles]

Saz Mataz.

[Ryan Tillotson]

My 12th roommate, Babette Claus gave me this back in 1978.

[Chris Koch]

Wait, Babette?

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Chris Koch]

Is that the chorus girl that got struck by lightning skinny dipping in Central Park? Okay, this is.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I know.

[Chris Koch]

This is insane. I rolled 10 joints for Babette using a purple streamer from Studio 54 that year at Grace Jones for the 30th birthday party. Yes, I was at that party. No, you were not.

[Kyle Wolschlager]

Yes, I was. Oh, my God.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's the only time I ever got in there.

[Chris Koch]

This is ridiculous.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I can't believe this.

[Chris Koch]

I think I rolled that joint now. Sparkin', baby.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Wow.

[Chris Koch]

So I guess we've been running in the same circles for a long time. It's a shame our orbits never crossed, huh?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, I may not have been on your radar, but. But you were certainly on mine. I would have killed to be in one of your productions, but something always happened. Just screw it up. Like. Well, that scene on the ferry with Oliver and Loretta, I think is just so beautiful. Can you talk about prepping or can you talk about shooting that scene?

[Chris Koch]

Yeah, I mean, that was the first, you know, the first time I ever talked to Kristen, the producer. She called me in la, this is months before, and she's like, okay, Hudson river, ferry boat. How are we going to do this? And because the options. You have options. We could have been green screen, sure. But we felt like, you know, and I was opposed to. Kristen was opposed to it, like, because that would look fake. So we were like, well, we want to do it practically, but it is New York and it is February and it's going to be cold. But we just kind of rolled the dice. And the captain, who has been doing it for 40 years, he said, I've never had a night this calm on the Hudson River. It was like glass. It was a magical night. And so, yeah, it was cold, but it wasn't that cold. And we started around 6pm it was the first night I met Meryl in person, so I got to meet her on a ferry on the Hudson, which was amazing. And we went out and we shot the scene. It took about six hours and we finished at midnight. And I mean, their chemistry was just. I mean, clearly they've known each other beyond the show. And I believe. And it certainly felt that way because they had such an amazing chemistry on set and they were just effortless together. So it was really a magical night. And I will say this, that, like, so we're done. It's about midnight. And we're kind of steaming back to Chelsea, to the pier, and we're all up on the top deck, and Meryl looks out and starts singing New York, New York. And then Marty joins in. And I look at John, and I look at John, I'm like, how do I just, like, remember this moment?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Chris Koch]

Because this is pretty fantastic.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, my God. That's so great.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love that. I love that.

[Chris Koch]

Yeah, it was a special night.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love seeing Martin Short. I've loved seeing the side of Martin Short. You know, I've just never seen it. And I think it's so great. And this is like the first. This is like, I guess is our first date.

[Chris Koch]

Yeah, it's their first date. And he's completely smitten. He's completely smitten by her.

[Maggie Bowles]

And I am completely smitten by their love story.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So, yeah, I love it. Here we are. This is why I brought you out on the ferry. Family tradition. When I was a girl, whenever I lost a tooth, my mom take me out on the Mississippi river on the ferry boat. And when we got underneath a bridge, we throw the tooth overboard and make a wish. The tooth fairy can swim. It's tooth fairy.

[Chris Koch]

Tooth fairy.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Okay.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I know, it's really corny.

[Chris Koch]

Oh, I'm a big fan of corny.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, here's your tooth.

[Kyle Wolschlager]

Right?

[John Hoffman]

All right.

[Maggie Bowles]

One person who was very involved in making that fairy tale scene work was the DP for season three.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Do people know what the DP is?

[Maggie Bowles]

The director of photography? I feel like if they don't know what a DP is, they probably also don't know what a director of photography does. But sure, we can give him his full title. And maybe at some point, Ryan will tell us all what a director of photography does.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Happy to.

[Maggie Bowles]

But the DP slash director of photography was Kyle Wolschlager. And you'll hear more from him later on. We have a full interview with him. But when we talked to him, he told us about the intense work and planning that went into shooting that scene.

[Kyle Wolschlager]

The boat stuff with Meryl, though, that. That was. That's a good one to talk about because that was a Chris Koch's episode.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's got to be tough, right?

[Kyle Wolschlager]

It was. It was a nightmare from the beginning. You know, we had talked about even potentially doing that, because these video walls are a thing now where you could use an LED wall that you would load in, you know, content that we shot. We would maybe go shoot just. Just a camera on a ferry and get the backgrounds and then load those in. But then you have to let your actors to match that and you have to build a little bit of a set in front of it. And you'd have New York skyline going around, going along in the background. Easier in some ways because you wouldn't have to shoot overnight in February on a boat going around New York City. But more challenging in all these technical ways of getting those assets to make sure that you have the right thing going on the video wall and matching the lighting. We had seen a little bit of a test and it just thought it's not going to look real. It's going to feel like you're still on a screen. And something the show does well is feel authentic and be in authentic spaces. And Meryl and Marty are professionals, and if we need to work all night on a boat, they'll do it. And our crews are professionals, and if we need to work all night in a boat, we'll do it. And sure enough, we showed up the key grip. Mike Urich, had set up a Technocrane, which is an extending crane that can go and out from, you know, a distance of about like 10ft to this one was set up to go, I think is a 23 foot crane. And so you can extend in and out and get some of these little beauty shots and wrap around them and use as an extra crane. That thing is set up on the bow of the boat, so they're standing up on the second level and it can reach up and shoot out over the bow like that. And, you know, I'm.

[Maggie Bowles]

I'm.

[Kyle Wolschlager]

This is my. This is really my second TV show as a cinematographer, and you don't always know what to ask for. And so I'm so thankful for somebody like Mike, the key Grip to say, yeah, Kyle, this is exactly what we need and we're going to do it and I'll get it there. It'll be there for you. And I show up the set and that thing has been, you know, they were there for four hours earlier getting it rigged up, getting it on there, it's ready to go. So we can walk on with Chris Koch, the director, and say, all right, this is exactly where we want the camera. Here's where we're going to be moving around the island. And at these times we want to be trying to get this scene. So we might rotate around to get it a few times. But for the most part, we were. We had a plan, we came out, we executed it, and we were, you know, we started as soon as it was dark. And I think we Were wrapping up around 2 o' clock in the morning. And the show, as Kristen Bernstein, one of the producers says, has magic fairy dust. Because that night in February, it was almost warm. It was perfectly calm. We had one little bit of wispy winds come through. It was a little chilly for a second, but we just felt coming back into shore that night like we had won the lottery because we lucked out so well on everything and ended up with this really beautiful set of scenes there on the boat for them to set up that relationship with Meryl and Marty. It was beautiful.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. That scene is so pretty. I love it so much. Were you ever worried, like, because their boat is constantly moving? Does that make it harder? Like, continuity wise?

[Kyle Wolschlager]

That's a problem for the editors. No,

[Maggie Bowles]

no.

[Kyle Wolschlager]

There's something.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I never noticed anything. I'm just asking.

[Kyle Wolschlager]

No, absolutely. I think truly, truly. Like, because I was there and I shot it knowing where we were in space and time. There's a couple times I'm like, oh, that's from a later take where we were further down the island. But to the average viewer, if you're watching that and, like, I really did not do my job, I sure hope you were watching those two actors do what they do. And, you know, there's. There's enough within the cut. And knowing that if I have a tight shot, you're never going to know what's in the background in a tight shot. And we go back out to a wide. Which on that boat we rarely did, you know, once we were with them, we often just stayed with them. So those cuts work really well. And it wasn't. It really wasn't an actual concern. I had no fear of our wonderful editors being able to pull that together without any problems. And I think that they were really happy with it. And, you know, things like the glistening of the water. You would never get that correctly on a video wall. So I was. I was very glad we did it in reality.

[Maggie Bowles]

Me too.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. That's beautiful. Oh, there's Jonathan again. Is he hugging hello?

[Chris Koch]

No, don't look now.

[Maggie Bowles]

Draw attention. Could Jonathan be.

[Ryan Tillotson]

No, he wouldn't cheat on Howard.

[Maggie Bowles]

With who? There's somebody.

[Chris Koch]

Describe him.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, he looks like he should be on a limo. Rider or driver, I can't tell.

[Chris Koch]

That's your description.

[Maggie Bowles]

He's wearing a red coat and a cap.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Huh. Oh, now Jonathan's handing him an envelope

[Maggie Bowles]

and the guy's giving him a slip of paper.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay, let's kill me.

[Kyle Wolschlager]

I'm just gonna come to that side.

[Chris Koch]

You can probably watch.

[Maggie Bowles]

No, so, Ryan, you are saying how usually we talk to the writers who have to know who the killer is, but this season, there's kind of something special about talking to the directors, right?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yes. I love it. Because they don't know everything. Like, the writers are having to be very careful. They're kind of tiptoeing around questions that we ask, whereas these directors don't know everything. And it's really fun. And I like that a lot because in the moment while they're shooting, it allows them to kind of just focus on the emotions of these characters. And I just feel like it's. I don't know, it's a fun, different side that we get to experience.

[Maggie Bowles]

I agree. Here is Chris Koch, director of Episode five.

[Chris Koch]

What was fun for me in general on the show is I didn't want to know who the murderer was. So here I am, episode five and six, and I don't know who the murderer is. And I could have known because the information was available to me, but I chose not to, which was a really fun way to go there, primarily because I want to watch it and I want to enjoy it. And I will say, after finishing my two episodes, I did not have a clearer vision of who it might be, but it was so much fun. But then the downside of that is, every now and then, John would take me aside and say, you might want to get a shot of that item over there. And I'm like, oh, really? Okay, I guess that's important. I better go shoot it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love that we talked to Adam Shankman, and that was the same situation for him, too. He had no idea, and he just had to shoot some random thing. And it's like, okay, get a shot of that.

[Chris Koch]

And I'd be like, is it important? He'd be like, maybe. You never know.

[Maggie Bowles]

In episode five, we have three very different, I guess, love stories happening, which is like Charles and Joy is there's a tension that doesn't, you know, work out. And then for Oliver and Loretta, that's like this blossoming, beautiful, but older, you know, new love. And then with Mabel and Taber, it's like this, like, young, hot, you know, young, hot people kissing by a murder board or whatever, you know, like, what are the. How did you think about those three different love stories and showing them all in one episode, but differently?

[Chris Koch]

I guess for me, it was just how each character had a different perspective on that love story. So I don't know that I approached it by trying to delineate between the three, you know, what I loved about Mabel is that the biggest step, emotional kind of reveal for her is to reveal the murder board.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Chris Koch]

It's a big moment. That's her letting him in. And we approached it that way and. And she nailed it. It was such a great moment when she just pulls the sheet off of that. It's just like, like, it's just super vulnerable.

[Kyle Wolschlager]

And I thought.

[Chris Koch]

I thought she had handled it so well.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Is that big white head of yours could use a good shrinking Jan?

[Chris Koch]

And I laugh about that. Jan. Whoa.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I should have trigger warned. Yes. Yes. I have continued to see Jan. Yes.

[Chris Koch]

As in dating. She's a murderer.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. You know, I guess it's the stunt woman in me. I got the hots for danger. Anyway, it's a bit hard behind plexiglass, or as Jan calls it, sexy glass. There's only so much he can do with a raised eyebrow, a wet lip and a sliver of tit. We also meet Saz again. How is it working with. Yeah, how is it working with Jane Lynch?

[Chris Koch]

I mean, she's incredible. And, you know, this is another person that I've just been a fan of for so many years, and it was just a absolute goofy delight. Delightful person to work with and so much energy. I bet there's not a lot of difference between her on camera and her off, really, but just so much. Just so much fun.

[Ryan Tillotson]

She cracks me up.

[Maggie Bowles]

I loved that game. That, like, red flag game was there. I would imagine there was. There was a lot of laughter on set.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Welcome to commit or be committed. And tonight's contestants are. Me in the role of Joy Payne, makeup artist to the stars. And playing opposite Joy, you know him as Brazos Charles Hayden Savage. Hey, our first category is sexual relations.

[Maggie Bowles]

Do you remember shooting that scene?

[Chris Koch]

Oh, yeah, no, that was a really fun scene to shoot. And, you know, the lighting changes with the fish tank to make it feel like a game show set. You know, we spent a lot of time on that scene trying to, you know, have the fun that we knew we would have with it, but also making it short enough. But it's. I mean, yes. I mean, the outtakes for that scene are incredible.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I bet she's, like, so known for her improv and, you know, all the. All the Christopher Guest movies and things like that. Like, was there a lot of improvising while you were shooting or were they to the script? How was that?

[Chris Koch]

Yeah, somewhat. Somewhat, but not a ton. I mean, kind of focused on what we had in front of us, as I recall. I should. Well, I need to see the scene again. I'm the worst podcast guest, by the way. This is going to be the one.

[Maggie Bowles]

You're doing great. Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You're doing great.

[Chris Koch]

Good. All right. Good.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. Don't worry.

[Chris Koch]

Oh, well, you wanted to talk about improv. I thought that my. Where it was really the improv was great and just was with Meryl and Marty during their dinner in the apartment.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, I agree.

[Chris Koch]

Sort of this impossibly, impossibly small apartment that. That she's lived in forever. And for those of us who lived in New York know that there are people that live in these apartments forever, so they become very customized.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, welcome to my slice of New York. It's itty bitty, but it's, you know, it's art.

[Chris Koch]

It's art. Who are you? But that scene with them was just such a delight, and to watch them go off script and just sometimes we'd just be like, I didn't know where they were, but it was just fun to watch. And. And somehow they would always bring it back. They would get it back on into a flow.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, they're pros. Was that a real pork chop?

[Chris Koch]

Oh, yeah, yeah. We just. We, you know, we spared no expense.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Good.

[Chris Koch]

We brought in real pork chops, and it had to be really hard to cut as well.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It looked real stiff. Yep.

[Maggie Bowles]

I loved being inside of Loretta's apartment. I felt like it was such a place, you know, that fit with her character.

[Chris Koch]

Meryl knew her character so well that I remember maybe like a week before we were gonna shoot, we showed her the apartment for the first time, and she's. She's just so lovely about it. She's like, oh, I love that chair. But I don't think that my character would have afforded this or that. And she's so into. She was so attuned to what that character. Little details. And our production designer was all over it, and we just made. So we gave her, like, time on the set so that she felt comfortable. And then I was just fascinated by the choices that she made. I love that in terms of the details of the props, because a lot of people don't even think about that.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. We're going to be talking to Patrick about production design, I think, next week. So I. I can't wait to.

[Chris Koch]

Oh, boy. Good luck with that. He's a. No, I'm kidding.

[Kyle Wolschlager]

I love Patrick.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oliver and Loretta aren't the only two going through huge relationship changes in this episode. Another one, obviously, is Charles and Joy. You know, Charlie, I've been trying to have an Open dialogue about what we both want. But I'm kidding myself to think you're

[Chris Koch]

really ready to open up to a

[Maggie Bowles]

woman as open as I am.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And I tried telling myself you're going to change, but I think it might

[Chris Koch]

be too late for you. No. You know, Charles is being non committal. He's realizing he doesn't really want to marry her. But the speech she gives at the end was really important because, yeah, it sort of puts him on notice and then it's. And obviously she's going to end the relationship. You want to know why? And you know, and it's really poignant when she. She has her talk with him and then she storms out and he's sort of staying there all alone in the hallway, so.

[Maggie Bowles]

So is Joy gone? Is that over? Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. I. I hope she's not gone gone, but we'll see.

[Maggie Bowles]

Does that not work out for Charles? No, I'm sorry.

[Chris Koch]

Oh, like, is she gone from the show?

[Maggie Bowles]

I mean, is she gone from Charles's love life? You know, they got it.

[Chris Koch]

Well, I. That. I don't know, guys. You'll have to tune in and see, and I will too, so I don't know.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Right, that's it for today. We'll be back later in the week for more on episode five with costume designer Dana Covarrubias.

[Maggie Bowles]

Her favorite item of Loretta's wardrobe was in this episode and you'll find out what it is.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Plus the accusations station. We'll be going through emails and through the subreddit to discuss some of your theories. See you then.

[Maggie Bowles]

See you then.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Only Murders in the Pod is a production of Straw Hut Media. This episode was written, edited and hosted by Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillotson with additional editing and sound mixing by Daniel Ferreira. Motion graphics for promotional materials are by Ali Ahmed with graphic design by Mohammed Samir. Our associate producer is Stephen Markley. Original music by Kyle Merritt and only Murders Theme music by Siddhartha Khosla. Big, big thanks to John Hoffman, Javier Salas, Emily Leets, Yasmin Azarakish, Lydia McMahon, Cindy Nabor and the rest of the Hulu team. And thanks to Keener and kk. We wish you were with us this season.

[Maggie Bowles]

We.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Just to reiterate or maybe to iterate. Better say better. Wait, what did you write here?

[Maggie Bowles]

I was just explaining to you that I wrote something weird here and I was just trying to have you think about it before you just read what I wrote. I was just trying to get you not to read it verbatim, which is what I literally just said.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I didn't hear you. I wasn't listening.

[Maggie Bowles]

I know. You pretended.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You did. You said, okay, well, now I understand.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay.

[John Hoffman]

It just goes around and around and around, around and around and around and around and around and around.