S3 E5: Ah, Love! (Part 2)

Summary

Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast: S3 E5 “Ah, Love! (Part 2)”
September 1, 2023
Hosted by Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillotson

---

Episode Overview

This episode pulls back the curtain on "Only Murders in the Building" Episode 5, focusing on costume design with Emmy-nominated Dana Covarrubias, a behind-the-scenes chat with showrunner John Hoffman about character returns (including Saz Pataki), and a deep dive into fan theories from the Only Murders subreddit and listener emails. The episode blends witty banter, heartfelt on-set stories, and some serious sleuthing, all delivered in the podcast’s signature playful and insightful tone.

---

Key Segments & Insights

1. Dressing Loretta: The Art & Process (00:36–08:34)

Guest: Dana Covarrubias, Costume Designer

• Inside the Process with Meryl Streep:

  • Dana describes her first Zoom call with Meryl Streep and John Hoffman, sharing preparation tips and the balance between her own creative ideas and Meryl’s actor-driven input.
    • “You want to kind of hear what the actor has to say and their input first... what if they say something totally different than what I was thinking?” (01:11, Dana)
  • They bonded emotionally watching Sara Bareilles perform "The Nanny's Lullaby" together.
    • “We cried. We all cried. Like, we all just started tearing up. And I was like, oh, my god, I'm on a zoom right now with Meryl Streep, and we're all crying.” (02:54, Dana)

• Building Loretta’s Look:

  • Loretta’s aesthetic is inspired by “a sliding doors version of Meryl Streep”—what if she’d never gotten her big break and was still “pounding the pavement in New York?”
    • “We started with images of what Meryl actually wore in the 60s and early 70s... people when they're in their heyday... their clothing gets arrested in that time.” (04:00, Dana)
  • Loretta’s wardrobe alternates between plain, transformable pieces and more character-driven garments (each with a “story” or origin from her acting career).
    • “Everything she buys herself is very plain and simple so that she can transform into all these different characters... Anything with color or pattern is a piece she ‘took’ from a show.” (06:30, Dana)

• Favorite Pieces:

  • Dana’s favorite is a “silly little hat” Loretta wears on the ferry in episode 5.
    • “It’s just the strangest little hat... the combination of the hat with the coat and everything in that scene was so cute.” (08:20, Dana)

---

2. Saz Is Back! Deciding Which Characters Return (10:06–13:49)

Guest: John Hoffman, Showrunner & Co-Creator

• What Drives Character Recurrence?
  • The show balances its rich pool of talent and narrative needs; logistical and storytelling reasons sometimes limit who can return (e.g., Nathan Lane’s absence due to Broadway commitments).
    • “It always is guided by the narrative we’re telling... there’s nobody in our show I wouldn’t want to have back. That’s the truth.” (11:20, John)
  • Some returns are perfect for the story (e.g., Tina Fey for “Mabel’s journey”), while others (like Saz and Jan) bring “pure gold” chemistry.
  • Sometimes, the absence of a character also fits the story—Nathan Lane’s character is “paying for the actions of season one and is in prison.”

---

3. Accusation Station: Fan Theories and Sleuthing (14:16–27:12)

Hosts’ Observations:

• Joy’s Suspicious Glass-Breaking:
  • Joy breaking glass for the aquarium sounded dubious and left unresolved in the episode (14:21).
• Tobert’s Big Wad of Cash:
  • Why does Tobert have so much cash at the jazz club? The hosts are increasingly suspicious—“That makes me very suspicious.” (15:44, Maggie).

Top Reddit Theories (16:27–21:15):

1. Lester the Doorman Did It (16:29)

   • Theory: Lester’s control of the elevator implicates him, plus he has a theatrical background and potential prior relationship with Loretta.
   • “The elevator is crucial to the murder, and Lester was the one controlling it.” (16:48, Reddit theory)

2. Charles Is More Involved (17:24)

   • Theory: Charles was initially a red herring, but now seems more suspicious. Maybe he tried to derail Ben, not kill him.
   • “What if the song is hinting that the killer is one of the trio?” (18:07, Reddit theory)

3. Bobo the Boatman Did It (20:08)

   • Theory: Nautical flags in Ben’s room spell out Bobo’s last name backwards, tying clues to his role.
   • “That’s some serious digging. Some really good puzzling.” (20:51, Ryan & Maggie)

Listener Emails & Voice Notes (21:12–25:20):

• Who Wrote "Fucking Pig" on the Mirror?

  • Multiple listeners suggest Ben wrote it himself out of self-loathing after eating cookies he was supposed to avoid (22:05).
    • “I think Ben was there alone by himself... he eats the cookies... and he writes the message on the mirror himself.” (22:39, Simon from Belgium)
  • Some suggest Tobert or Dickie’s involvement; suspicion toward Tobert is growing.

• Twin & Stunt Double Speculation:

  • The presence of twins, stunt doubles, and Saz’s return (Jane Lynch) feed more wild guesses about “hidden” characters.

• More Suspects:

  • Cliff (the producer’s son), Cinda's blonde minion, or someone yet unseen.

• International Listeners Represent!

  • PK from Australia shares theories and love for the pod.
    • “I totally think Ben's brother is sus. I don't think it's Joy. I definitely think that's a red herring… Maybe it's a whole new story we haven't even seen yet.” (24:31, PK)

---

4. Meta & Community Notes

• Writer/Actor Strike:
  The hosts reaffirm their support for the WGA and SAG-AFTRA strikes, emphasizing their intent to “make lemonade with lemons” and support the creative unions fully (25:27).

• Theory Timeline:
  The hosts remind listeners that fan theories discussed may lag one episode behind, due to production schedules (26:11). Fans should keep writing in!

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We all just started tearing up. And I was like, oh, my God, I’m on a zoom right now with Meryl Streep, and we’re all crying.”
  –Dana Covarrubias on meeting Meryl Streep (02:54)

• “Everything she buys herself is very plain and simple so that she can transform into all these different characters.”
  –Dana Covarrubias on Loretta’s “transformative” wardrobe (06:30)

• “There’s nobody in our show I wouldn’t want to have back. That’s the truth.”
  –John Hoffman on the ensemble (11:26)

• “That makes me very suspicious.”
  –Maggie, on Tobert’s cash at the jazz club (15:44)

• “Nautical flags are for 1L and M, which backwards is ML1 or Malone, which is Bobo's last name.”
  –Subreddit theory on Bobo (20:20)

• “He writes the message on the mirror himself. That was my theory.”
  –Simon (voice memo), on Ben as the mirror message writer (22:39)

---

Time-stamped Content Highlights

• 00:41–08:34: Costuming Loretta & working with Meryl Streep (Dana Covarrubias)
• 10:06–13:49: How characters are chosen to return (John Hoffman)
• 14:16–21:12: Accusation Station – subreddit theories (Lester, Charles, Bobo)
• 21:12–25:20: Listener emails and voice notes (self-written mirror message, Tobert, Dickie, new suspects)
• 25:27–26:11: Community & strike acknowledgment
• 26:11–End: Reminders, episode timeline, and wrap-up

---

Conclusion

From the vivid account of designing Loretta’s “alternative-universe Meryl” wardrobe to detangling which Arconia resident could be Ben’s killer, this episode celebrates both the craft of storytelling and the obsessive joy of mystery fandom. Listener theories—some elaborate, some wild—are given thoughtful airtime. The love for cast, crew, and fans is evident in every moment, making this episode a must-listen for anyone wanting a peek behind the Arconia’s doors.

---

Transcript

[A]

Straw hut media. Hello and welcome back to Only Murders in the Pod. I am Maggie Bowles.

[B]

And I'm Ryan Tillotson.

[A]

And this is part two of our coverage of episode five.

[B]

Today we're talking with costume designer Dana Covarrubias about dressing Loretta, plus showrunner and co creator John Hoffman about the return of Saz Pataky. And then we'll go through some of our listener theories.

[A]

Yay.

[B]

Yay.

[A]

And here is Dana Kovarrubius, Emmy nominated costume designer.

[B]

How does that process work? Like, so you. Once you find out it's Meryl, you're like, I got to get on a call now with her to figure out what she's wearing or how. How does it. What happens?

[C]

Yeah, well, it's different for every actor, but for. For this specific process, it was. Yeah, we got on a call, myself and John Hoffman, the showrunner, and Meryl, just the three of us, and just had a chat, you know, talked about her character. I had already prepared, you know, had. I had a few scripts at that point and knew a little bit about her character. And John had walked me through, you know, that character's story and journey and where she's gonna go in the season. And so that gave me some ideas. And then I just start, you know, doing my thing, researching and dreaming of what it could be and. And coming up with inspiration for what it should be. And then I kind of had a mood board prepared for that initial zoom meeting with her. But I was. You know, sometimes you're like, do you. You want to kind of hear what the actor has to say and their input first? So I'm hesitant to show my images right away. Usually I wait to hear a little bit of feedback because what if they say something totally different than what I was thinking? I don't want to be like, this is my vision. And, you know, so, yeah, but I went into that meeting with a mood board prepared, and then we chatted, and it was so chill and lovely, and she's so laid back and wonderful, and like, just love just, like emanates from her. And you could feel it coming through the zoom. And I was like, wow, this is. This is amazing. And so I was just very, you know, at ease in that zoom, as much as you can be, you know, meeting Meryl Streep for the first time. And then I sort of did a spiel about what I thought, you know, the character is. And then we kind of came to a, you know, general consensus, me and her and John, about who that. Who Loretta is. And then and then I did feel comfortable enough at that point to show the mood boards. And I showed her the mood boards, and she loved them, so that was great. And. And then actually we were able to listen to one of the songs during that meeting.

[B]

The Nanny's Lullaby.

[C]

The Nanny's Lullaby. And we listened, or we actually were able to all three watch a video of Sarah Barrealis singing it.

[B]

Heard about this.

[C]

And we cried. We all cried. Like, we all just started tearing up. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm on a zoom right now with Meryl Streep, and we're all crying. And it was amazing. It was just really. It was like, probably, I don't know, I'll go down in history as one of the best moments of my life, I'm sure.

[B]

Oh, yeah. That's so cool.

[A]

That's so cool. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, I feel like Loretta is very recognizable as a character. Like, she feels very cohesive, maybe is the word. Like, from her apartment to her braids, like, the iconic braids to her outfits and everything like that. Can you tell us about what was on that mood board for Loretta and how her character got built, dressed, put together?

[C]

Yeah, I'd love to. Yeah. So the concept for her, it was a couple different things, but I would say where we started was John and I spoke about how this is sort of like a sliding doors version of Meryl Streep. Like, what if, you know, in the 1960s and the 1970s, she just never got that first big job, you know, and she just never. It just never happened for her, which is, like, insane to even think about. But if it didn't, you know, and as she's, you know, but she loves acting so much and she loves performing in theater and so much that she is one of those actors that's still out there pounding the pavement in New York City and, like, won't give up on her dream, you know, ever. And so we sort of started with that concept. And so I was looking at the images of what Meryl actually Wore in the 60s and early 70s, and we kind of decided, you know, how sometimes, you know, people when they're in their heyday or, like, time in their life that sort of they think of as the greatest time in their life. Sometimes their clothing gets arrested in that time. And so it was kind of that concept that she's, you know, she's in. It's like the 60s and 70s version of what Meryl Streep actually wore was our first sort of starting point for how we would dress Loretta So, yeah, so I found these images of her wearing these really cool blazers and sort of midi length skirts and, you know, dress shirts and scarves and boots, knee high boots from the 70s. And I thought that was my starting off point for her look.

[B]

I've never thought about that. Like, your clothing gets arrested, I guess, in a time when you have your. But I think that's so true. Like in Diane Keaton, for example, I feel like she's always Annie Hall. Like, she's always wearing those, like, blazers or whatever, you know, the big hat. Yeah.

[C]

Like, yeah. And I think even, you know, even for myself, you know, it's like I. In my head, it's like I'm always sort of trying to dress like the college version of myself or, you know, it's just like we all get stuck in whatever was our. In our minds, our, like, greatest time. And then you. You kind of dress to that, or that's just your comfort zone. So that's where we started with the concept. And then another thing developed in talking with Meryl, which was that she wants to be this very, like, mercurial character who can, like, her whole. She's given up everything, and I don't want to give away anything, but you learn later that she's given up so, so, so much to be an artist and a performer, and it's all she loves and cares about. And so we wanted to reflect, reflect that passion in her wardrobe. So we decided that, you know, everything in her wardrobe is either very, very plain and simple and sort of transformative, like, transformable. So, you know, like a plain white shirt or a plain black button down or black pants or, you know, something that she could kind of be anyone in. Yeah, sort of like almost. Also. Almost like a fly on the wall. Like, you wouldn't notice her necessarily.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So it's. All of the pieces in her closet were either that or they were a very characterful piece that she found from a place she was in or something she was in. So, you know, anything that has, like, color or pattern that's in her wardrobe, we kind of came up with like a little, you know, like an Easter egg kind of idea of like, where did she steal this piece from? So we had, like, a jacket. We were like, oh, she got this from a checkoff place she was in when she was playing arena, or, you know, this is something she got from a production of Jesus Christ Superstar, or this is something she got from, you know. So we had all these fun little pieces in her closet that were a little more characterful but that we said, you know, she took them. They weren't something she would have bought herself because everything she buys herself is very plain and simple so that she can transform into all these different characters. There's a lot going on.

[A]

Definitely. Yeah. That's so interesting.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Did you have a favorite piece from Loretta's wardrobe?

[C]

Oh, God, yes, I do. In episode five, Meryl wears a hat. That's my favorite thing that she, she wears. It's just a very silly hat. And I love a silly hat. I love, I love. And it was vintage and I just, I love pieces of clothing that are just so characterful. And it's just the strangest little hat.

[B]

I just. Do you remember the hat?

[A]

Just. I'm trying to remember how.

[C]

I mean, it's when she's on the ferry.

[B]

Oh, yes, yes.

[C]

It's just a silly little hat. I don't know why I loved it so much. I mean, there were many, many clothing items of hers that I loved. I think the combination of the hat with the code and the everything in that scene was so cute.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, that's great.

[A]

Maybe I'm just cursed

[B]

or it's probably.

[A]

Please.

[B]

What I deserve. Oh, come on. What could you have done to deserve being cursed? Open your mouth. That was super sexy. Am I crazy? I think the gap is handsome. Well, that might be the 40 year old weed taking effect.

[A]

You know, as much as we're both rooting for Oliver and Loretta, we can't help but wonder, is a romance between them doomed? Or do we live in a world where Meryl Streep could be a returning character season after season on a Hulu show?

[B]

I hope so.

[A]

Yeah. And I don't know. I mean, I would love for that to be, but I don't know if that's possible in this world.

[B]

And we didn't ask John Hoffman that question exactly, but we did ask him a kind of parallel question about who comes back and who doesn't. Will we ever see Theo again? Alice, our Cony x tie dye guy. Exactly.

[A]

I was so, so happy to see Saz return in episode five. I just love that character so much. And to learn that she's dating Jan in prison.

[E]

Through sexy glass.

[A]

It's just so good. It's so funny and it's so satisfying.

[E]

Oh, I'm so glad you feel that way.

[A]

I'm. I'm curious about who, who you decide to bring back, like throughout the, throughout the season. You know, we, we have Uma briefly. Obviously, Howard is a pretty important part of this season. Because he's assistant directing or what is he. He's just a. No, not assistant directing. He's.

[B]

Yeah, a director's assistant director's big difference.

[A]

He's the director's assistant.

[E]

Although he was. He would argue he's doing the first.

[A]

Yeah, I'm. So I guess how do you decide which characters are going to come back and which ones? Are there any that you want to bring back but, you know, you didn't find a space for or anything like that?

[E]

Yeah, it's really challenging. You know, we have this stack deck of incredible talent and then more people who say they'd like to be on the show. And so then everything goes, oh, my God. Well, we have to try that. And can we make that work? It all, it always is guided by, you know, the narrative we're telling that sort of decides things. But boy, to have a. Like Tina Fey. It made perfect sense for Tina to be there for Mabel's story in episode four as a pull away when her guys are so distracted from the things she needs desperately to have work for her life. And, you know, if this is going to happen, she needs real commitment. So it made perfect sense to bring Tina back and put a blonde wig on her after the things she got up to last year. But, you know, there are actors, every one of them. There's nobody in our show that I wouldn't want to have back. That's the truth. And. And Jane lynch playing Szasz is pure gold. And so the delight in writing for an actor like that and to watch the chemistry that happens with her and Steve Martin and everyone else she's around, brilliant. So it's all about servicing the narrative. But there are other actors. Then it's about logistics sometimes. And I would have. We have to be like our balancing act. They made great fodder in the press, I guess, about Nathan Lane not being in this. I'll have Nathan Lane any day of the week, please. He was doing a Broadway play when we were shooting, but I think we still could have made that work. And I know he wanted to. We all wanted to. But I think also when you run up against Volcano, what's the story and how does that fit in? And we had a couple of ideas, but either the stories were too big for what he could do logistically for us, and when we had already many logistical challenges, we thought also it made sense to me that he was finally, you know, paying for the actions of season one and he's in prison so we could put a little bit of a thumbtack pause on his character with the hopes of a return soon to come.

[A]

After the break, we pull into the Accusation Station.

[B]

We need a song.

[A]

Accusation Station.

[B]

Sid, if you're listening.

[A]

Welcome back.

[B]

Welcome back.

[A]

Welcome back.

[B]

Let's start with the subreddit.

[A]

No, no, let's start with the things I noticed, because there were two things I noticed in this episode that I wanted to point out. One is at the top of the episode when Meibel and Oliver go to Charles's apartment, Joy is inside, like, breaking dishes and screaming. And he says, she's breaking glass for the aquarium. Sea glass for the aquarium. But it also sounds kind of like a lie. And by the end of the episode, we don't really that it's not explored.

[B]

What happens at the end of 4? Is there anything weird that. And suspicious or something going on with their relationship at the end of four?

[A]

Well, he. He goes into the white room and he proposes to her. And she says, oh, my lipstick. I must have lost it.

[B]

Right. Yeah. Nothing bad about their relationship, just. I mean, an accidental proposal. But that's. Yeah, but maybe all she was really doing was just breaking glass for her fish. Her 62 fish.

[A]

It was just very loud.

[B]

It was. Yeah.

[A]

So I'm still kind of. I'm weirded out by that. I don't fully understand. The second thing I noticed is that at the jazz club, when they're checking out and paying their bill, Tobert pulls out a big old wad of cash.

[B]

Right? Yeah. You said that to me when we were watching, and it is really weird. Why does he have so much money? Honestly, I don't carry around cash.

[A]

No, like 50s. He, like. He, like, goes through them, you know, And I'm like, why does this man have so much cash? That makes me very suspicious.

[B]

Yeah, good. Good thing to catch.

[A]

I don't know if any of you listeners also noticed these things. Let me know if you did or if you have a possible explanation for why he would have all that cash.

[B]

I'm still.

[A]

Maybe he's just trying to impress Mabel.

[B]

I'm still suspicious of Tobert.

[A]

Yeah, I'm more suspicious of him now this. This episode.

[B]

Okay, now, the only murders Hulu subreddit.

[A]

Yes, this is on Reddit.com r OnlyMurderShulu

[B]

and the beautiful moderators of this subreddit have given us a document with their top five theories, and we have narrowed them down to our top three, and that's what we're going to present with you today. Are you ready?

[A]

I'm ready. Should I start?

[B]

Yeah, take it away.

[A]

Okay, so this first one I like. It's from Usereffective Interest 28 and they say I'm still going with Lester the doorman as the murderer. Have we seen him? No. Okay, but listen to this. The elevator is crucial to the murder, and Lester was the one controlling it.

[B]

That's a good point.

[A]

He's also the only one who tells us the penthouse elevator was broken. So we have seen. However, we never see any repairmen working on it, nor did any repairman, presumably he hear Ben falling onto the car. We also learned last season that Lester was previously an actor before falling on hard times and becoming a doorman. So he has a connection to the theater world many of the characters are involved with. Do Lester and Loretta have a previous relationship that also involved Ben somehow?

[B]

Wow. Very interesting.

[A]

Very interesting.

[B]

I don't know. I like it.

[A]

I like it too.

[B]

Okay, another one. This is from the user retrorevolve. Charles is becoming increasingly sus as the season goes on. At first, during the first episode, I thought he was a red herring because, come on, it can't be one of our beloved trio. I'm leaning more towards that he attempted to throw Ben off his game to derail the show because he was nervous, but that he never really meant to kill him. Maybe get him sick at opening night at most. But the thought occurred to me after hearing his Pattersong and you know this, Mags. Which of the Pickwick triplets did it?

[A]

Who in the crew could commit this crime?

[B]

Who in the crew could commit this crime? What if the song is hinting that the killer is one of the trio?

[A]

And then.

[B]

And then this user provides a lot of examples which I'm. I'm actually not going to go into. You can go into the subreddit and you can read this their post for yourself. But they said they're not 100% sure they actually killed or meant to kill Ben. So these following clues hold as much weight to the murder. But they are still very curious. Then they say he doesn't react when literal blood has dripped onto his face and glasses. And they found that very odd. Perhaps it's just for comedic effect.

[A]

Yeah. Isn't he supposed to faint? Oh, no, no, that's Howard.

[B]

Oh, that is Howard. Yeah.

[A]

No, Charles gets nosebleeds.

[B]

Right? Right.

[A]

He hasn't had a nosebleed all season.

[B]

You know, I just.

[A]

I guess we're only five episodes in.

[B]

I think it's really interesting. What if it is Charles? What if Charles gets put in jail and then he's with Jan again. Well, too bad Sass is with Jan.

[A]

It would be even harder for them. Men and women don't go to jail together, right? I don't know if you were aware.

[B]

I knew that. I know. Yeah. Anyway, I just thought it was an interesting idea, and so, you know, presenting it.

[A]

That's really interesting. So this theory is after episode four, right. Now that we've seen episode five, we know he punched Ben, Charles punched Ben, and he didn't tell anybody about it. So that's even more sus.

[B]

And they were saying, like, he's succumbing to the stress and retreating to the white room. And that could. That could be stress of thinking he committed murder, you know, so. And I think that that's. I think it's interesting.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

You know, and when Charles turns to reconcile with Ben, he nervously tries to deflect. Oh, don't worry about me. You can skip me.

[A]

Interesting. So do we. Does this person think that Charles intentionally killed.

[B]

No, they think. They think potentially, like, tried to get him sick on opening night.

[A]

I see.

[B]

And it led to.

[A]

So Charles was the. Or the original poisoner, maybe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But not the one who pushed him down The.

[B]

I don't know. They. They seem unsure, but.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Involved.

[A]

Well, because how would he have gotten all the way up there to push Ben and then jump down into the elevator for his body?

[B]

Involved, you know?

[A]

Yeah. Interesting.

[B]

All right, read us the next one.

[A]

Okay, that's very interesting. Okay, this last one from the subreddit is from user Rikerman, and they have a crazy theory. They think Bobo is the killer.

[B]

We haven't seen a lot of Bobo

[A]

we haven't seen, but they noticed that he didn't speak up when the hankies were being discussed in episode four. And this is really, really specific. But they noticed that in Ben's room there are nautical flags and Bobo is the boatman in the play. And the nautical flags are for. The ones specifically that are in There are for 1L and M, which backwards is ML1 or Malone, which is Bobo's last name.

[B]

I mean, that's some serious digging.

[A]

That's like really serious sleuthing. Puzzling.

[B]

Some really good puzzling. And if you go into the subreddit, you can find their whole description of their theory and they provide an image of the nautical flags so you can learn a little bit more about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

About what they're thinking.

[A]

Yeah. Great question for the set decorator.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so that's. That's our highlights from the subreddit. Now onto some of your emails. You Got a ton of emails this week. Thank you so much.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you. All right, Megs, take us through this first.

[A]

Okay, so we got a lot more people who think Ben stocking at cookies. That seems to be the overwhelming agreement. But a new detail emerged this week which is who wrote fucking pig?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And four different people. Bob O. Mark F. Josh M. And Lauren B. All think that Ben wrote it himself. Which honestly crossed my mind.

[B]

Didn't cross my mind either. And I think. I think that's a great guess. Great theory. Great theory.

[A]

Really great. A lot of those cookies. Cookies. People had other important notes like suspicious of Tobert. And the producer mother, son, Sarah B. Steve from Seattle noticed that he would only eat a corner quote from the table read. And so maybe that was not enough to kill him, but enough to make him pass out. He thinks maybe it was Dickie. But that everybody at that table read knew about Ben's cooking.

[B]

He made it very clear. Yeah.

[A]

Alicent are suspicious of Tobert since he's been very involved in Ben's life. Simon C. We'll actually play his clip. He sent us a voice memo. Here it is.

[B]

Hi, Maggie and Ryan. My name is Simon from Belgium and I have a theory about the video in Ben's dressing room. We don't see anyone in that room except for Ben. And I think Ben was there alone by himself talking to. Yes, you hear this, right. To cookies. He really wants to eat them. And what do you do? He gets a mental breakdown. He eats the cookies. He looks at himself in the mirror and what does he do then? He feels fat while eating the cookies and he writes the message on the mirror himself. That was my theory. Thanks for listening and have a nice day. Bye. And that was the first time when we got that email that I had heard someone make that suggestion and I thought that was very smart.

[A]

Simon C. Yeah. And of the other people who thought that Ben was the one who wrote it, there was Mark F. Who thought that Tobert might have access to poison darts from his time in Botswana.

[B]

See Tobert.

[A]

Or that Dickie is just tired of being in his brother's shadow. There was Josh M. Who foresees a tragic demise for Loretta, which I'm sad about. I don't want that. And then a lot of people talking about twins and stunt doubles. Laura B. Marcus R. They're noticing that there's a lot of talk about twins and stunt doubles. And now with Saz back in episode five, there's even more. Kian thinks it's Cliff. Maybe that's why we don't know that much about him yet. Cliff is the producer's son.

[B]

Something's, you know, something about Cliff and his mother.

[A]

M l noticed Cinda's blonde minion and she thinks maybe Loretta or maybe Dickie, because she sees that Dickie looks at Loretta with a lot of admiration. Or maybe it's somebody that we haven't even met yet. And then here's another voice recording we got. This is from pk.

[D]

Hey, it's PK here, checking in from. From Adelaide, South Australia. Nice work, Maggie and Ryan. You guys are smashing it. Big fan of the show and this pod. Love what you are bringing to the pod this season. Anyways, loved EP4 and the return of Cinder. Definitely think there's more to come with her and the murder. For sure. I loved the chat about Mabel's clothes coming from vintage stores or op shops, as we call them down here. And theories. Well, I totally think Ben's brother is Sus. I don't think it's Joy. I definitely think that's a red herring. Perhaps one of her 62 fish even. But who knows? Maybe it's a whole new story we haven't even seen yet where Bobo's reordered as totes sinister and the eventual killer. Time will tell, I'm sure. Thanks again for all the work you put into this. Can't wait for your next step. Cheers, pk.

[A]

Thank you for that pk. Great stuff. And then lastly, I've always wanted to go to Australia. Me too. Can we come?

[B]

Yeah, can we come?

[A]

Can we come? I was talking to pk. That's why it's weird that you answered. Yeah. Lastly, we got one email from Brian G, who was concerned about us talking about the writers and actors while the strike is still ongoing. Totally understand your concern, Brian. I want to say again that we have full support for the WGA and SAG aftra, as do all of our guests that we've had. And we're really just trying to make lemonade with lemons here. We support our unions 100%.

[B]

And thank you for. Thank you for the message.

[A]

Yeah. Thanks everybody for emailing us. We love getting the emails.

[B]

Thanks again. I think that's it for this episode, right?

[A]

I think so, yeah.

[B]

We've done it.

[A]

So. Yeah. I guess another thing to say is, you know, these theories that we're reading for you, they're always a little bit behind. I think I maybe said this last week, but theories a little bit behind because we have to record them in advance.

[B]

So obviously now you have seen episode Five. But all these theories that we are going through are prior to that, pre episode five up to episode four.

[A]

So next week, we'll be back with all the theories for episode five.

[B]

But you know what? They're still good.

[A]

They're still good. Yeah. So far, nothing that we've read has been disproved. And I think, like, that's pretty interesting. When do you think we're going to find out who Ben's actually talking to? Because, like, everyone's saying it's the cookies. Everyone's saying it was him. Now we're wondering if maybe it was Loretta who wrote on the mirror, fucking pig. Cause that's, you know, like, I don't

[B]

think we're gonna know who, but we still don't know talking to until 9 or 10, you know?

[A]

You think that long?

[B]

I feel like it's gonna be the end.

[A]

So then it must be really important. Yeah, I mean, I guess we'll see.

[B]

Yeah, we'll see.

[A]

All right, everybody, thanks so much for tuning in.

[B]

See you next week.

[A]

See you next week.

[B]

Only Murders in the Pod is a production of Straw Hut Media. This episode was written, edited, and hosted by Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillet, with additional editing and sound mixing by Daniel Ferreira. Motion graphics for promotional materials are by Ali Ahmed with graphic design by Mohamed Samir. Our associate producer is Steven Markley. Original music by Kyle Merritt, and only Murders Theme music by Siddhartha Khosla. Big, big thanks to John Hoffman, Javier Salas, Emily Leets, Yasmin Azarakish, Lydia McMahon, Cindy Nabor, and the rest of the Hulu team. And thanks to Keener and kk. We wish you were with us this season.

[A]

We miss you. Accusation Station. Sounds you don't like it?

[B]

No, I like it. All right,

[A]

Accusation Station.

[B]

All right, we're done.

[A]

All right, Accusation Station.