S3 E7: CoBro (Part 2)

Summary

Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

S3 E7: CoBro (Part 2) – Episode Summary

Release Date: September 15, 2023

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Overview

In this episode of the Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast, hosts Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillotson take fans behind the scenes with an in-depth, delightfully nerdy conversation with Director of Photography Kyle Volschlager. The episode dives into the practical magic of shooting tricky scenes, working with legends like Meryl Streep—and Mel Brooks(?!), untangles the mystery around episode seven’s elevator sequence, and unpacks fan theories with input from listener emails and Reddit sleuths. Playful, insightful, and packed with production wisdom, the discussion celebrates the rich tapestry of comedy, mystery, and camaraderie that defines the series.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Behind the Camera with Kyle Volschlager

• Wildlife Photography & Journey to the Show
  Kyle shares, with self-deprecating humor, his dual life as both a wildlife and narrative photographer:

  "I cosplay as a National Geographic photographer in my free time... Because I really did get into photography originally because I loved wildlife and wanted to just see stuff closer." (01:06)

• Joining the OMitB Team
  Kyle recounts his path from "Russian Doll" and "Broad City" to Only Murders, joining as camera operator in Season 2 and eventually stepping up as DP:

  “It's one of those places where … it becomes a bit of a family there because we are spending all of our time together and everybody is truly so nice … you just find a real comfortable place.” (02:39)

• The Meryl Streep Effect
  Kyle’s first day with Meryl Streep was anxiety-inducing but made stress-free by her supportive team:

  “Roy, [Meryl’s makeup and hair person] pulled me aside and just said, Kyle, thank you, thank you, thank you. She looks wonderful. This is going to be great. … I had just a huge sigh of relief … a positive start to what is going to be a long season ahead.” (03:46)

• Becoming DP: Rules and Inspirations
  Discussing the philosophy underpinning the show’s visual style, Kyle explains:

  “The camera's motivated by something that the actors are doing... movement isn't always necessarily the thing that makes the camera move, but emotion.” (04:40)
  He notes the importance of serving the story over flashy visuals.

2. Making Movie Magic: Crafting Iconic Scenes

• The Elevator Sequence (Paul Rudd as Ben Glenroy)
  The team spent considerable energy engineering Ben’s fall in the elevator shaft:

  “Instead of having the camera placed up above ... we actually shot that just horizontally. … The actor, in this case Paul Rudd, is sitting in a sort of a floating chair ... green-screened out ... camera gets pulled away as fast as we can move to kind of give that sense of falling.” (05:36)
  Subtle effects—wind, air cannons, and strategic lighting—added realism:
  “As he gets closer to the ground, a little red light starts to appear on his hair, as if he was nearing [the] ground floor elevator.” (07:30)

• Visualizing Multiple Theories
  The show’s visual storytelling lets viewers see various “what if” scenarios posited by the characters, enabled by shooting multiple variations and clever editing. (08:00–08:48)

• Secrets & Shooting Schedules
  Sometimes even the crew is shielded from the final whodunit, though logistics force some reveals:

  “[Showrunner] John Hoffman is saying, ‘Oh boy, everybody close your ears…’ … It’s like, ‘John, we make the show, we kind of have to know. Please continue...’” (09:20)

3. Notable Behind-the-Scenes Moments

• Ferris Bueller Reference Debate
  A playful meta moment with Matthew Broderick and Steve Martin discussing who should deliver the “Ferris Bueller” homage:

  “Matthew Broderick said, you have to pay me a lot more money for me to do Ferris Bueller than what you’re paying me to be here… and Steve was like, ‘Yeah, you know what? I think it’s funnier if I do it anyway.’” (11:32)

• Zooming with Legends
  Kyle describes participating in a Zoom call with Mel Brooks:

  “So I’m sitting in my apartment at 9 o’ clock at night with Mel Brooks on my computer and just dying. It doesn't get much better than that...” (12:34)

• Meryl Streep & the Lantern (Bonus tidbit at the end)

  “Meryl hitting herself in the head with that lantern—she was doing that take after take after take… It was a real lantern… She probably had a little goose egg after doing it eight or nine times that day.” (30:11)

4. Listener & Reddit Theories (Accusation Station – 14:01)

Listener Emails

• Maria F.: Suspicious about the trio’s lack of urgency; why haven’t they asked Lester or Dickie basic questions?
• Caroline from Germany: Thinks there are two murderers, possibly Dickie or Loretta (“she seems a little bit nuts.”) (16:44)
• Andre S. from Brazil: Wonders if the three babies presented are foreshadowing three murderers.
• Allison: Proposes Ben's death was accidental due to a drug mix-up and low blood pressure, not poisoning. (18:09)
• Grace M.: Suggests Charles is Ben’s father, Loretta pushed Ben accidentally.
• Vinya: Deep-dive into handwriting analysis and play history, linking Loretta and Dickie via stationery and old plays.

  “[...] Maybe they did a play together where Ben played a pig. And maybe Loretta’s insult was ‘your pig’ instead of ‘you pig’…” (21:30)

• Eric M.: Notes odd language at the opening night party (“Ben has to take this”) suggesting possible identity tricks.

Reddit Theories

(23:11 onwards)

• Impressive Chard 4530: Banner at the party—“We killed him”—suggests multiple killers and victims, maybe Donna and Cliff are “we”; wild theory that the entire play is a hoax orchestrated by Ben and documented by Tobert.
• RavenB: Suggests Oliver unknowingly fathered Loretta’s child (Dickie), leading to a surprise family connection.
• Lurky Lurkover: Current top suspect is KT, bitter over losing the director's chair to Oliver; also mentions “twin theory” as a likely red herring.

Hosts’ Reactions & Additional Theorizing

• Discussion on practical details:
  • The possibility of Ben’s death being an accident—did faulty elevators contribute? (27:10)
  • The strange logistics of the elevator shaft, and why no one seems to have asked about maintenance timelines.
• Maggie shares a childhood fear of falling into empty elevator shafts, relating it to the show’s scenario. (27:27–28:29)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Kyle Volschlager on Production Philosophy:

  “You have to serve the story no matter what you're doing. Because I have this really cool visual idea doesn't necessarily mean that's right for this moment.” (04:50)

• Steve Martin’s Ferris Moment:

  “I think it's funnier if I do it anyway.” (11:32, channeling meta-comedy)

• Mel Brooks Cameo

  “It doesn't get much better than that...” (12:38, on Zooming with Mel Brooks)

• On Meryl Streep's Dedication:

  "[She] was knocking herself down with [a real brass lantern]... She probably had a little goose egg after doing it eight or nine times that day." (30:11)

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Segment Timestamps

• [00:01] Intro/Banter—Goats, photography
• [01:47] Kyle Volschlager joins; career & wildlife photography
• [03:46] First day with Meryl Streep
• [04:40] Becoming DP; camera approach/philosophy
• [05:36] Elevator sequence practical effects
• [08:48] The show's visual “what if” scenarios
• [09:20] How/when the crew learns “whodunit”
• [10:55] Ferris Bueller reference, Broderick and Martin
• [12:34] Zoom call with Mel Brooks
• [13:42] Segment break
• [14:01] Listener emails and theory round-up (Accusation Station)
• [22:32] Reddit theory deep dive
• [27:10] Re-examining the accident theory
• [30:11] Meryl and the lantern—behind-the-scenes pain for screen laughs

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Tone & Atmosphere

The episode is playfully nerdy and energetic, with a keen appreciation for both technical filmmaking and the joyous absurdity of murder-mystery sleuthing. The hosts’ rapport is light, witty, and inviting, with a familial respect for their guests and fan community. Their theories oscillate between deep analysis and tongue-in-cheek speculation, mirroring the show's blend of heart and humor.

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For Fans & Sleuths

This episode is a treasure-trove for both production geeks and armchair detectives—balancing technical stories, fun celebrity anecdotes, and robust theorizing. Whether you’re stanning Loretta or still convinced “the twin theory” is a red herring, you’ll find insights to fuel your speculation until the next clue drops.

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Quotes and moments have been attributed directly with timestamps for easy reference to the original episode.

Transcript

[Maggie Bowles]

Straw Hut Media.

[Kyle Volschlager]

I adopted some goats yesterday, so I'm. I'm just like, oh, my God, this is pretty good.

[Maggie Bowles]

You're living the dream out there a little bit. Hello, and welcome to Only Murders in the Pod. I'm Maggie Bowles.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And I'm Ryan Tillotson. And this is part two of our coverage of episode seven. Today we're talking with director of photography Kyle Volschlager about some memorable shots from the season and working with some of his heroes. And then, of course, we'll go through some of our listener theories.

[Maggie Bowles]

Just FYI, our conversation with Kyle kind of gets a little bit nerdy. I blame Ryan for that. He really likes it. So we get into the production side of tv. We think it's really interesting and we hope you think it's interesting too. We're also going to be talking about some stuff that's way back from episode two. And another note, Kyle is an amazing wildlife photographer. Like, really, really great stuff. Go check out his Instagram, link it in the show. Not,

[Kyle Volschlager]

I jokingly say, I cosplay as a National Geographic photographer in my free time and go to the Amazon or Galapagos or wherever I can and just live out that side of it. Because I really did get into photography originally because I loved wildlife and wanted to just see stuff closer. So sort of an accident, almost jokingly, but it just led to this whole other world and I kept finding myself in narrative and somehow landed in a really wonderful spot with wonderful people. So I feel very fortunate and kind of pinch myself all the time and then run off and try and see an elephant.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So John told us that you've been on this team since season one, but, like, as a camera operator, is that right?

[Kyle Volschlager]

Since season two, I got to come in with Chris Teague, the former dp. Chris Teague and I had worked on Russian Doll before this and before that, we were on Broad City together. And so he brought me in a few times and when he called me to say, hey, season two might have an opportunity for you to come and join us, because I think I was not available for season one. I was working on Dr. Death at the time. I was like, yes, I will hold that out six months in advance and hope that it all works out. And when it finally did, it was such a joy to jump into the show. And it really, it just. It's one of those places where it really, it's been said, but it truly, it becomes a bit of a family there because we are spending all of our time together and everybody is truly so nice. You just kind of find a real comfortable place. And from my experience in season two, when Chris T. Got hired to go shoot a Star wars series, and they knew he wasn't going to be available, I was stepping up on Awkwafina's show, Nora from Queens. I was DPing season two and season three of that, and I think I was close to finishing season three. And I got a call from one of the producers saying, hey, it's looking like it might be possible that you could jump up. Would you be interested? And of course, the answer is 100% yes. And then you're on the same phone call saying, and by the way, Meryl Streep's going to be joining the cast, and you can't tell anybody, and you have to sit on this and figure out if you really are prepared for that. It's sort of like, yes, I will figure this out. A good quick story from that first day that Meryl was on set that I just had to appreciate. Well, she's been with her makeup and hair person, Roy, for forever. And Jess Rosenthaler, one of our producers, came by and pulled me aside and said, hey, Roy, Roy needs to see you. And I was like, oh, boy. You don't necessarily want to hear that from the makeup and hair person right off the bat. And he pulled me aside and he looked in the eyes and just said, kyle, thank you, thank you, thank you. She looks wonderful. This is going to be great. And so from that moment on, I had just a huge sigh of relief and is like, okay, this is. This is a. This is a positive start to what is going to be a long season ahead. And felt like a lot of.

[Maggie Bowles]

So great.

[Kyle Volschlager]

Yeah, it made me feel like I was on the right path. And one of the bigger compliments that I received kind of early on there.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Is there any kind of, like. I mean, yes, you were there for the season prior, but, like, what kind of framework or what's set up for you to, like, take over as DP in a new season? Like, is there any rule book, you know, or something?

[Kyle Volschlager]

You know, not really, but some of the unspoken stuff, like, generally speaking with the show, the camera moves. When actors move, the camera's motivated by something that the actors are doing. You know, movement isn't always necessarily the. The thing that makes the camera move, but emotion or. Or something that says, hey, this is the time to do that. And for the most part, Chris was really conscious of that. And. And I think generally speaking, throughout the season, we've really tried to stay on top of that same idea. And it's a pretty simple one, but with comedy, you know, like, you have to serve the story no matter what you're doing. Because I have this really cool visual idea doesn't necessarily mean that, like, that's right for this moment. And it's so much more important to really hear what your director, your showrunner wants from that and go with what they need. And then every once in a while, as a director of photography, you get to say, hey, I have this idea that's going to be possible. What do you think about this? And people get excited about it, get behind it. And all of a sudden you got a guy floating in a chair on a green screen. For example, when Ben's falling down an elevator, we had meetings and meetings and meetings. And a producer has an idea, John Hoffman has an idea, the stunt guy has an idea. I've got an idea. And you just have to have everybody say out loud to each other what they're thinking, what's going to work? And for that, you kind of have to think both practically, like, what's safe, what's economical? Because we can't just spend any money that we want. It's still a. There's a cap on our budgets. And as I was told, if you go over it, sure, you might get it on this year, but you may not see it next year. There's a way to work within the system. And I thought of a relatively simple idea of instead of having the camera placed up above and into an elevator shaft, which we were talking about, sort of finding a way to rig somebody falling through space from a camera above, we actually shot that just horizontally. So the camera's on the ground on a dolly, on track. The actor, in this case, Paul Rudd, is sitting in a sort of a floating chair. If you can imagine. It has a big rig above it with a little cable coming down kind of back behind him. It's green, screened out, but otherwise he's sitting on a little tiny bicycle seat, and he's floating in midair with getting those arm movements. And we've got our camera cranked up to a certain speed and say, pull. And the camera gets pulled away as fast as we can move to kind of give that sense of falling. But then Lun Roy is just actually in static space there. The camera's moving away. But it gives that sense when you mix it with the right video effects and all that kind of stuff. And so that was, for me, it was a really fun thing to sit there and say, hey, I Had this crazy idea, and here we are just making it work, making it happen. It's very fun.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And fans, I assume, like. Right. His thing was jacket and hair and things were blowing.

[Kyle Volschlager]

Yeah, we had. We had some wind. We had some. We had some air cannons set up behind him to kind of push that and make that happen. And we actually. It's really subtle, but we actually had some lights set behind him. So that as he gets closer to the ground, A little red light starts to kind of just appear on his hair. As if he was nearing sort of a ground floor elevator. Just to give those subtle cues that, like, sets it to feel a little bit more real.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. Like it's moving, you know, like he is moving.

[Kyle Volschlager]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's very cool.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love that.

[Kyle Volschlager]

I love knowing that that stuff was really fun. And it pairs with the same stuff where Charles and Mabel are imagining what happened in that moment. Just sort of in tight detail where we have him falling down the elevator shaft. And in reverse, coming back up and saying, well, what if it was, you know, somebody with the hanky around their neck? Or maybe the hanky was in the pocket, or maybe he grabbed. You know, all these. All these little possibilities that they're postulating and. Same thing. You know, it was kind of like, what's. You know, if we just get him to fall out of frame once and then have him reverse back up into frame. But then you do the cut at a strategic point of when he's grabbing. You know, it's just fun. Little Fun little things like that. That you get to wrap your head around to say, like, oh, we can make this all look like it's all one thing that's just being invented by Charles. So many different variations that we get to. Yeah. Visually. Visually create that for you and paint that picture.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So why was Ben holding that handkerchief?

[Maggie Bowles]

So what if. What if Ben, before he fell, what if he tried to grab onto something?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Right. And all he could reach was the

[Kyle Volschlager]

killer's pocket square, or the killer had

[Maggie Bowles]

it in their hair or around their neck or. Or.

[Kyle Volschlager]

I don't know, maybe he ripped it right out of the killer's hand.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay, so are you in?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. Shooting. Did you know who killed Ben Glenroy? I.

[Kyle Volschlager]

One of the very first meetings where I got the most of the story. I think we still didn't get the full killer. I think we got. John kind of pitches the season to us as department heads. And I. I'm trying to remember back then, because this was back. This would have been back in November when we. December when we first got this pitch, and I don't know that we get to know the exact thing, but in this case, because we had to shoot some stuff out of order because of Paul Rudd's schedule, pretty early on, we started talking about, all right, here's the scene. And so you, sometime at some point in there, were standing around talking in front of the elevators where Ben's been pushed. And John looks around the room and goes, John Hoffman is saying, oh, boy, everybody close your ears, stop listening. I don't want to tell anybody that. Nobody should know. And it's like, John, we make the show, we kind of have to know. Please continue until happens. So that's, that's how I. I think that's how I finally discovered exactly how it was going on, is we stood there and, and he brought in the actors and we, we got to watch how it unfolded and then we decided to have a shoot it. And it was tough because I think that that episode is, you know, it's the final episode where we get to reveal that

[Ryan Tillotson]

listeners, I don't know if you guys caught the second Ferris Bueller reference at the end in episode seven. Here it is. You're still here. It's over. Go home. Go. You know, if you have any adjustments, I'm very flexible, and I've always found it's best to be honest. I bet you would have made a much better Ferris.

[Kyle Volschlager]

Do you mean that?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, I would want to, but he's perfect.

[Kyle Volschlager]

They had played back and forth. Actually, this is one of those rare moments where on set there was a little bit of a decision of, do we get Matthew Broderick to do the Ferris Bueller thing? And, and does he say, you know, goodbye, see you later, bye, bye now? And they went back and forth. And finally, I think the, the thing that Matthew Broderick said was, you have to pay me a lot more money for me to do Ferris Bueller than what you're paying me to be here to do. Matthew Broderick. And Steve was like, yeah, you know what? I think it's funnier if I do it anyway. So moments like that, you know, you just end up with, that's good there. There really are too many to count. I'm sitting on a Zoom call with a legend like Mel Brooks because. Because I'm shooting the show. But in this case, we literally did a Zoom call with Mel in his home. So he's in la, we're in New York, and I don't have any control over that situation besides the opportunity to be there. And sit it. Sit there and watch it happen. And mel Brooks, at 97 years old, is a pleasure to sit and watch and listen to because he immediately comes out with stories. And I was at home that night because we had been done, you know, it was. It was later we had been done shooting, and I think it was 6 o', clock, LA time, 9 o', clock, NY time. And so I'm sitting in my apartment at 9 o' clock at night with Mel Brooks on my computer and just dying. It doesn't get much better than that if you're. If you're going to be in that situation.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's so cool. Well, this was awesome. This was great.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Thank you so much for talking to us.

[Kyle Volschlager]

Anytime. Seriously, it's. It's fun to talk about the show. And yeah, I do just want to continue to say, like, huge support for the writers and actors and everybody that's, you know, going through the strike right now. And especially kind of the other side of that is the crew who are all waiting to get back to work and just knowing that we all are in this fight together and making sure that our industry stays vibrant and alive so that we can keep creating really fun seasons of tv, because we do love doing it. And I want nothing more than to get back to doing it as soon as possible. But I also want to make sure that we all get well taken care of and can live the lives we want to live.

[Maggie Bowles]

All right, after the break, we're pulling into the Accusation Station. We'll be right back.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Welcome back. Okay, we have arrived here at the Accusation Station. Or no. What do you say? We've boarded.

[Maggie Bowles]

We've boarded the. No, you don't board the Accusation Station.

[Ryan Tillotson]

What do you board?

[Maggie Bowles]

You board the train at the Accusation Station.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, see? Boarded.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay, we are pulling into the accusation session.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's the one.

[Maggie Bowles]

Ding, ding, ding.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I don't know what that sound is.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay, so before we actually, before we come to a complete stop of the Accusation Station, there are a few things I wanted to point out that I noticed in this episode.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay.

[Maggie Bowles]

Go number one. Why does Charles have an entire bag full of hankies?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, that. That's because he collected them all from all the other people.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Remember, he collected them all from everybody.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's why.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

So those are the ones he collected. He just put them into a plastic bag? For sure.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay, well, that solves that question.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Glad I could help you.

[Maggie Bowles]

Second question. Where is Tobert getting all of this fancy equipment?

[Ryan Tillotson]

I mean, I have a lot of equipment, so, like, if you're in that world, I feel like you have a lot of equipment. Okay, that doesn't make me suspicious of Tobert.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay?

[Ryan Tillotson]

I'm suspicious of him for other reasons.

[Maggie Bowles]

All right, well, then never mind about my things. I noticed Ryan has shot me down. All right, how about this? I will dive into some emails, and then you tell me about some Reddit theories.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Deal.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay, so first of all, thank you, everybody, for sending us emails. Maria F. Noted that the trio was really dragging their feet, and they don't seem to have any urgency, and she finds that suspicious. Thank you for that email, Caroline.

[Ryan Tillotson]

There's a lot going on, though. There's a lot going on here. So it's like Oliver's trying to do a play. Charles is getting divorced. No, they're not married. They're, you know, breakup. Maybe we'll have to leave her apartment. There's a lot going on.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

In their lives.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's true. She asks why the trio's dragging their feet and points out Lester as a good example. Because they presumably walk past him every time they enter and exit the building if they haven't even checked with him about a timeline for the elevator, which is in. Interesting.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I think someone pointed this out last episode as well.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So they're really not leaning on Lester for questions. And also that Dickie went to the hospital with Ben, and in episode one, he corrects Ben about what the nurses and doctors said. So why aren't they asking Dickie or Lester these very basic questions to establish what happened? But I guess Mabel does go and talk to Dickie this episode. Next, from Caroline from Germany I really like. She said she's a huge fan of Only Murders in the Building, and she also likes our podcast.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, thank you, Caroline from Germany.

[Maggie Bowles]

I like that she's not a huge fan of the podcast, but she does like it, and so I'll take it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, me too.

[Maggie Bowles]

She thinks there are two murderers. That's a theory we've heard before. She thinks maybe it was Dickie. She also thinks maybe it was Loretta because she, quote, seems a little bit nuts.

[Ryan Tillotson]

She does.

[Maggie Bowles]

Peg H. Says she's looking forward to hearing from some of the people behind the music, which. Peg, we've got good news. We are going to talk to some of the songwriters from the season, but unfortunately, she says she loves Sid Khosla. We can't talk to Sid this season because he is a member of sag. Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Because his voice is in the theme song.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, that's him going, ooh.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yep. And so because of that, he is a member of sag.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Andre S. From Brazil wonders if the three babies are foreshadowing three murderers, which is kind of interesting.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I read that when it came in, and I love that.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Sarah. L noticed that Loretta's book of clippings, all the pictures of Ben also have Dickie in them. She's not the only one who noticed this. We heard that this a lot.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. Last week.

[Maggie Bowles]

And so she thinks Laura has a connection to Ben's brother. Allison noted that Ben was on the Leading man cocktail, which included beta blockers and a little bit of meth, but he didn't test positive for meth. And so she thinks someone was stealing it from him and replacing the real pill with placebos. And so his blood pressure went really low and he passed out. He wasn't even poisoned. She also thinks maybe he fell by accident into the elevator shaft.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Because of the drugs.

[Maggie Bowles]

Because of the drugs. He lost his balance and he fell by accident.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Interesting. I like that theory.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I'm curious, Allison, if this is an

[Maggie Bowles]

expert opinion, if she has some medical background that would give her insight.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, I would love to know that you know, or you just. This is just a very educated guess from a. From a thing.

[Maggie Bowles]

You know, what's interesting about it is, like, no one's or have. Have they mentioned the trio. Like, how did Ben fall down an elevator shaft? Why wasn't the elevator there? Yeah, like, the elevator was broken.

[Kyle Volschlager]

Right.

[Maggie Bowles]

Which is why it wasn't there. But then the trio was in the elevator.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I'm confused. The elevator was broken?

[Maggie Bowles]

Well, it had to have been. If he fell down a shaft and there was no elevator there. Right. Because how would the doors open?

[Ryan Tillotson]

I see.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Someone had to open those doors and shove someone down. Shove him down. Or he did. I don't know.

[Maggie Bowles]

This is interesting. What if he really did just lose his balance? He fell by accident because he wasn't paying attention, and he took a phone call and he's like.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And the doors of the elevator were just open.

[Maggie Bowles]

The doors open because he was trying to go down or something like that. He was trying to get in the elevator and he wasn't paying attention. He just walked in like an idiot.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Maybe.

[Maggie Bowles]

But then whose hanky was he holding?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Right.

[Maggie Bowles]

But like, it's such a strange murder. I'm just realizing this. It's such a strange murder. Like how fall down an elevator shaft.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And in rewatching episode two, because of our conversation with Kyle in this episode of the podcast, we noticed that while he's falling he does not have a hanky in his hand.

[Maggie Bowles]

Right.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Remember that?

[Maggie Bowles]

I do remember that. That was really strange.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay, continue.

[Maggie Bowles]

All right, next email is from Grace M. She thinks that she gave up Ben Glenroy for adoption. She thinks that maybe Charles is Ben's father and maybe they. There was an accidental thing that happened there, which I think is interesting. And that Charles poisoned Ben not to kill him, but just to knock him out. And that Loretta accidentally pushed him down the thing. Oh, another one. Vinya. Another email from Vinya, which I appreciate her emails a lot. I'm going to read her email because I thought it was interesting. So on the paper from Loretta's book that Oliver uses to compare the writing on the mirror, there's a list of comps for certain people related to a preview from 2006. And the list she thinks is either written by Ben himself or more likely by Dickie as his manager. She says compare the writing with the note Charles got with his hanky and the writing on the mirror.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Interesting.

[Maggie Bowles]

And as the comps list is on Loretta stationary, she and Ben and or Dickie have had to have met in some way at that time. Maybe in one of the plays that Loretta was playing a pig in. So maybe Dickie was Loretta's agent at the time already and had her stationery made and used it to make a comps list. No. And if so, then she goes into some math. If only murders season three is depicting 2023. It was 60 to 17 years ago. So maybe Loretta's insert, maybe they did a play together where Ben played a pig. And maybe Loretta's insult was quote your pig instead of you. Pig, as in you're still on about that pig roll, which I think is very funny.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That is interesting.

[Maggie Bowles]

Another, she also had an idea about an accident.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I like that. That could be. That feels interesting, the fact that we know that she's played pigs. I don't know. Anyway, anyway, Very, very interesting.

[Kyle Volschlager]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Anyways, Eric M. Noticed that in season three, episode one, at the opening night party, when the phone rings, Dickie tells Ben he has to take it. Ben says, Ben has to take this. And he thinks that's strange. I didn't notice. I haven't gone back and seen that. But that's interesting. Did anybody else notice that? So he's wondering if he's not really

[Ryan Tillotson]

Ben, why is that strange? Ben has to take this. A manager probably gets calls for clients all the time.

[Maggie Bowles]

No, Ben says Ben has to take this.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, interesting. Okay.

[Maggie Bowles]

You know, he also notices Dickie's face when Loretta Sings when she gets the TV role. And Loretta's face on. So darling, my darling, they cut to Dickie's face so he sees a connection there. All right, tell me about what's going on on Reddit, Ryan.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I would love to.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay.

[Ryan Tillotson]

The beautiful mods @r onlymurders. Hulu left us a message. They said this week the twin theory is still being discussed, but more and more people think it could be a red herring. We're seeing a lot of people theorize that this season's murder could be a group effort or that we're seeing a play within a play. The current, most popular theory on the sub is that Ben potentially staged his first death. Okay. So that with that set up, like always, they gave me five theories that they thought were the best, and I have shortened them to three. And that is what I'm going to present to you today. Are you ready?

[Maggie Bowles]

I'm ready. Give it to me.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay. I think these are great. This first one is from Impressive Chard 4530. You like that?

[Maggie Bowles]

I do. I love an impressive chard.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I don't know what that means. Do you know what that means?

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Chard is a. Is a leafy green. Oh, you've seen char?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, yeah, of course. I've fed it to your lizard, but I didn't know if that's what. Or it was like, Charizard.

[Maggie Bowles]

Charizard is impressive.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I don't know.

[Maggie Bowles]

You know, I love Charizard, too.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I am going to read this for you. In the scene where Ben comes back to life and gives his apology tour, there is a giant banner hanging over the party which reads, congratulations, Death Rattle cast and crew. We killed him. This banner, I think, is definitely a clue and suggests multiple killers and multiple victims. I think the we is Donna and Cliff, and the them that was killed are Ben and his twin. Interesting, right?

[Maggie Bowles]

Very interesting.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And then over the top theory. The entire production of Death Rattle is a hoax organized and paid for by Ben Glenroy and documented by Tobert. Multiple cast members are in on staging the death of Ben Glenroy and possibly his twin and turning the whole thing into a film. The actual production of this hoax is being directed by kt, our trio, Even Oliver, the director of the play, is clueless. What do you think?

[Maggie Bowles]

Whoa. That is. That is over the top.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That is over the top.

[Maggie Bowles]

I would love that, though. It's like. It would feel like at the end of a thing where, like. And it was all a dream.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's wild.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay. This next one is from user Raven MB or RavenB.

[Maggie Bowles]

I like RavenB.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay, crazy out there. Theory du jour. Oliver actually hooked up with loretta in the 70s, but he has no memory because she wasn't a big name and drugs were involved. She got pregnant but couldn't afford the baby and gave it up for adoption. She kept tabs on Oliver and eventually discovered that her baby was Dickie, adopted by the Glenroy's. She clipped every newspaper article about Ben that mentioned or showed her baby boy. Oliver is going to find out that he has a biological son in addition to the one he's raised.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, I love. I would love it if Oliver gets a song right.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I know.

[Maggie Bowles]

Biological son.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, I love that too. Yeah, I love that too. Okay, and our final one from Reddit is from Lurky Lurkover.

[Maggie Bowles]

Classic Lurky Lurkover.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Current number one suspect, Katie, because she was promised the director role, but because of Ben feeling too nervous about making his debut with a rookie director, it went to Oliver. I think clues are starting to pile up her way.

[Maggie Bowles]

Kt, what do you think?

[Ryan Tillotson]

You think kt?

[Maggie Bowles]

No, I don't think.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I don't either. Yeah. Current number two suspect, Bobo. And they say for no good reason except I'm obsessed and then a red herring. The whole twin theory, just don't buy it at all and will be disappointed if it comes to pass. I think most twin things can be attributed fairly to Ben being insecure and putting on COBRA act. So that's what we got from Reddit.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's what we got. What are your thoughts? What? Any takeaways?

[Ryan Tillotson]

I just. I really liked the Oliver one where Dickie could be his son.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Where Oliver and Loretta hooked up randomly

[Ryan Tillotson]

and he has no memory of it. I totally. They clearly hung out in the same circles.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You know, as we learned in episode five.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. She held on to a joint that he rolled years and years ago.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Years ago. Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

So I wonder how dry that joint was. I was thinking about it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Probably not good. Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Maybe she kept it in a humidifier or something.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, a humidor. With her cigar collection.

[Ryan Tillotson]

With her cigar collection.

[Maggie Bowles]

I am really, really into this idea that Ben's death was accidental. That both deaths were accidental. Or maybe like the first one was a. Was a poisoning meant to just sabotage opening night and that the second one was just.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I'm just really confused about the elevator thing, you know, it's not something I thought about at all.

[Maggie Bowles]

Me neither.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It's like if it. It had to have been down, you know, had been down and so say the elevator was on the first floor and he was on the penthouse, top floor. You have to pry those doors open to get it open.

[Maggie Bowles]

Unless the elevator was malfunctioning at the time. For example, when I was a child, my dad always told me to always look before you walk into an elevator, because, you know those old elevators, sometimes the doors open and there's no elevator there. So I was always terrified that I was going to walk into an elevator and fall to my death.

[Ryan Tillotson]

My parents did not teach me that. I just step right in anyway without looking at all.

[Maggie Bowles]

Well, I'm sure my dad could name, like, five different people who died this way. He knows how lots of people died. But. So my thought is that. So what if. Okay, what if Ben goes upstairs to take his call and then he's like, okay, I'm gonna go back down to the party now.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay.

[Maggie Bowles]

And the elevator doors open, and he's just, like, maybe, like, looking in admiration at his giant cobra and he falls.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Right, because that's in the hallway, right?

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, because that's in the foyer.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

So he's like, oh, God, that's a cool snake. And then he goes to walk in an elevator, but there's no elevator there because it's broken. And he falls to his death.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Sure. Yeah, I guess. I guess it's possible. I guess it's possible. There's something weird about, obviously that. And it's not something I considered at all until.

[Maggie Bowles]

I haven't thought about it at all until mentioning the broken elevator, because.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, but people have been saying that from the beginning. So it's like, yeah, we're just stupid.

[Kyle Volschlager]

Yeah, we're stupid.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay, on that note, that's. Well, that's it.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's it. That's it for today. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll be back next week.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Continue to send your theories to OnlyMurderStrawHutMedia.com or message us in the subreddit.

[Maggie Bowles]

Well, we're not really in the subreddit,

[Ryan Tillotson]

but the mods are, and they talk to us.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's true.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And maybe they'll join us one day.

[Maggie Bowles]

Maybe they will.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. But anyway, Bye, everybody.

[Maggie Bowles]

Bye.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Only Murders in the Pod is a production of Straw Hut Media. This episode was written, edited and hosted by Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillotson, with additional editing and sound mixing by Daniel Ferreira. Motion graphics for promotional materials are by Ali Ahmed with graphic design by Mohammad Samir. Our associate producer is Stephen Markley. Original music by Kyle Merritt. And only Murders Theme music by Siddhartha Khosla. Big, big thanks to John Hoffman, Javier Salas, Emily Leets, Yasmin Azarakish, Lydia McMahon, Cindy Neighbor, and the rest of the Hulu team. And thanks to Keener and kk. We wish you were with us this season.

[Maggie Bowles]

We miss you.

[Kyle Volschlager]

I don't want to contradict, I think one of the editors I caught this in, in the, in the podcast, I don't want to contradict, but Meryl hitting her when she hits herself in the head with that lantern. She was doing that take after take after take on purpose. It was just like that thing was not light. It was a very hard, heavy brass. Like it had heft to it. It was a real lantern. It wasn't like a plastic lantern. And she was knocking herself down with it. And I had seen it maybe after a couple takes, like maybe she had been doing it for a few times. And I said, meryl, are you okay? She's like, yeah, I'm fine. I'm doing it on purpose. She probably had a little goose egg after doing it eight or nine times that day.