S3 E8: Sitzprobe (Part 1)

Summary

Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

Episode S3 E8: "Sitzprobe (Part 1)" — September 20, 2023

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode of the official "Only Murders in the Building" podcast, hosted by Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillotson, takes fans behind the scenes of Season 3, Episode 8 (“Sitzprobe”). The hosts interview directors Shari Springer Berman and Robert Pulcini, as well as editors Shelley Westerman and Peyton Koch, digging into how this pivotal, music-filled episode was crafted. The conversation centers on technical and emotional challenges—particularly with the episode’s intricate split-screen musical montage, the deepening emotional stakes for key characters, and the unique experience of working as married creative partners on a show rich in both comedy and pathos.

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Episode Breakdown

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1. Episode 8 Recap & Table Set (00:27–04:21)

• Loretta’s Voiceover & Revelation: The episode opens with Loretta (Meryl Streep) reflecting on choices, revealing she’s Dickie’s birth mother.
• Sitzprobe Explained: The cast rehearses with the orchestra; Loretta plans to reveal her identity to Dickie via a letter.
• Murder Investigation Developments: Greg the stalker is released, case is re-opened; Mabel suspects Dickie is Ben’s killer.
• Pattersong and the Paper Shredder: Maxine the critic returns; Howard and Mabel piece together shredded paper—"What a task!" (02:15)—believed to be a key clue.
• Detective Williams Returns: More interviews ensue, with Charles and Oliver covertly scheming to record them with a GoPro.
• Emotional Showdowns: Loretta tries to deflect blame away from Dickie, suggesting Bobo or KT as possible suspects—“KT’s a bitch.” (02:52)
• The Pattersong Montage: Charles performs the bizarre, tongue-twisting musical number as critical plot action unfolds.
• Climactic Sequence: Loretta’s attempt to save Dickie leads her to confess to Ben’s murder; Oliver (Martin Short) collapses from a heart attack.

"It's a huge episode."
— Maggie Bowles (03:55)

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2. Directing Only Murders: First-Time Reflections (04:21–07:57)

Directors Shari Springer Berman & Robert Pulcini share their entry into the Only Murders family:

• Both were already superfans of the show since Season 1.
• Praise for the welcoming cast and crew, particularly showrunner John Hoffman.
• Surreal experience working with comedy legends Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Meryl Streep.

"So do you want to do an episode with Meryl Streep of Only Murders in the Building? Yes."
— Shari Springer Berman (04:56)

On set:

• Outtakes of physical comedy, esp. Steve Martin and Martin Short, could fill hours; hopes for a future blooper reel.
• Directors highlight the brilliance of nuanced comic moments: “Some of the funniest things are just Steve Martin getting up out of a seat, and what he turns that into.” — Shari Springer Berman (07:57)

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3. Technical & Creative Challenges: Split Screen and Musical Montage (08:23–12:38)

• The Pattersong Montage:
  • The storytelling challenge: layer simultaneous, wordless action over a fixed-timed song.
  • Intricately planned with pre-visualized storyboards, color-coded title cards, and “split screens upon split screens.”
  • Editors Shelley Westerman and Peyton Koch describe the process: mapping each action and timing precisely against the song.

“If we hadn’t planned it out, it would have been a holy mess putting it together.”
— Bob Pulcini (13:36)

• Earworm Alert:
  • Everyone admits the Pattersong is stuck in their heads—"It could be a TikTok challenge for sure." (13:32)

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4. Music in Storytelling: Behind-the-Scenes of the Show’s Musical Set Pieces (16:28–19:59)

• Both directors have experience with on-screen music; Shari was a musician before filmmaking.
• Notable past work: “10,000 Saints,” a film about a straight edge punk band.
• Sitzprobe’s Musical Complexity:
  • Mixing live and pre-recorded music added complexity, especially with a full orchestra and Steve Martin’s live performance.
  • Music supervisor “Ian” was precise about breaths and timing; Meryl Streep preferred to sing live.

“The only person who didn't sing with the pre-record was Meryl, who wanted to sing live and, of course, did it perfectly.”
— Bob Pulcini (18:59)

• The result? Emotional power—“I got chills during that last one of Meryl’s song in this episode.” — Maggie Bowles (19:15)

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5. Working with Legends & Key On-Set Moments (19:52–23:11)

• Meryl Streep’s Process: Directors marvel at her incremental, perfectionist approach; she also goes out of her way to put everyone at ease.
• Selena Gomez’s Performance: Directors praise her subtlety, especially in the emotionally layered scene with Meryl (“Loretta almost brings her in, but then she immediately gets out…” — Shari Springer Berman, 22:15).
• Directorial Homage to Struggling Artists: Loretta’s apartment is modeled after real actor friends in NYC who never got their big break, highlighting the heartbreak and love of theatre even among those who don’t achieve stardom.

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6. The Emotional & Technical Climax (23:11–29:55)

• The episode-ending camera pull, rapidly pulling up the aisle of the theater, posed practical challenges—Steve Martin graciously offered to return after dinner if needed (24:00).
• Directors explain the precise timing required to sync the discovery of the letter in Loretta’s bag, Dickie’s interrogation, and Loretta’s live performance—all orchestrated around a live song, making editing unusually tricky.

"It was...almost a theatrical aspect to it because things had to be planned out so carefully."
— Bob Pulcini (30:27)

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7. Partnership & Creative Collaboration: Working as a Married Couple (30:42–34:57)

• The directors met at Columbia Film School; they began collaborating professionally before romance.
• They emphasize the value and ease of shared creative language, division of labor, and mutual respect.
• Their advice to other creative couples: find and lean into each other’s strengths as they emerge.

“We had our kind of work relationship figured out, and then the romantic thing came after.”
— Bob Pulcini (32:14)
“You never have to say at the end of the day, ‘How'd your day go?’”
— Shari Springer Berman (32:38)

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8. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Meryl Streep’s presence:
  "I tried to explain it to my son...she's like the Tom Brady of acting."
  — Bob Pulcini (21:10)

• On the Oliver/Loretta love story:
  "It's the thing I didn't realize I needed, but I needed it."
  — Maggie Bowles (36:21)

• On the episode’s rollercoaster five-minute climax:
  "It's like, I love you. Wait, I did it."
  — Bob Pulcini (37:07)

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9. Final Thoughts & Next Episode Tease

• Praise for the show’s singular emotional tone—balancing comedy and heartbreak.
• Directors cherish downtime just chatting with the iconic cast: “Just sitting and talking to these amazing actors and these amazing legends, that was just amazing.” — Bob Pulcini (37:31)
• Hosts tease upcoming episode with showrunner John Hoffman and more clue-hunting.

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Key Timestamps

• 00:27–04:21 — Recap of the episode’s key events
• 04:21–07:57 — Directors’ first impressions joining the show
• 08:37–13:51 — Technical and creative challenges of Pattersong split screen montage
• 16:28–19:59 — Music production: live vs pre-record, Streep’s performances
• 23:31–27:39 — Loretta’s apartment & reflection on unsung artists
• 30:00–30:40 — Timing the final musical/emotional sequence
• 31:27–34:57 — Insights and advice on working with your spouse
• 35:13–37:31 — The emotional impact and surprise of the Oliver/Loretta arc

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Summary Takeaways

This episode is a treasure trove for fans interested in the technical wizardry and emotional nuance that powers “Only Murders in the Building.” Directors Berman and Pulcini offer an inside look at how a big, music-driven episode comes together—their preparation, their awe at working with legends, and even the logistical hurdles of split screens and live performances. Threads of deep appreciation for unsung talents and the magic of long-term creative partnership underscore the conversation, giving listeners new appreciation for the show’s blend of laughter, heart, and whodunnit intrigue.

Transcript

[Maggie Bowles]

Straw Hut Media. Do you feel like you could piece together shredded paper from a paper shredder?

[Bob Pulcini]

I. I have never tried it.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Sarah's addicted to paper shredding.

[Bob Pulcini]

I love shredding paper. Do you?

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love to shred paper.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

She shreds her like post its.

[Bob Pulcini]

If I could everything. If you guys were on the phone, I could show you. The paper shredder is literally right by my feet right now.

[Maggie Bowles]

Hello, and welcome to Only Murders in the Pod. I am Maggie Bowles.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And I'm Ryan Tiller. This season is a little different because we're not talking to the writers or actors, but we're still mining for clues and trying to figure out who the killer is before all is revealed in the season finale.

[Maggie Bowles]

As you know, we're talking to directors, editors, and other key members of the production team and piecing it all together.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Today we speak with the directors of episode eight, Sherry Springer Berman and Bob Pulcini.

[Maggie Bowles]

We'll talk about crafting and putting together that split screen montage of the Pattersong. And we'll hear from editors Shelley Westerman and Peyton Koch about that process, too.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We'll talk about Loretta's emotional confession and also working together as a married couple. Bob and Sherry are married? Like us.

[Maggie Bowles]

Just like us. All right, but first, a quick recap. Episode 8, Sitz Probe. New word for me.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Me too.

[Maggie Bowles]

We start with Loretta's voiceover. She says theater is about choices. What you share and what you hide. And we learn that she is Dickie's mother. She gave him up for adoption when she was young, but she's been following along with his life ever since. And she even auditioned for the play to be close to him.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It sits probe, which means the cast is rehearsing with the orchestra. Loretta is planning to tell Dickie who she is.

[Maggie Bowles]

She wrote him a letter wondering if

[Bob Pulcini]

maybe we could talk later. You know, or I could just hand you something that I wrote and run away.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

All right, everyone.

[Maggie Bowles]

The police have released Greg the stalker, and they've reopened the case. Meanwhile, Mabel is pretty sure she knows who killed Ben. She thinks it's Dickie.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Maxime the critic is sitting in on the rehearsal to review the show.

[Maggie Bowles]

Howard and Mabel realize the spooky noise from opening night was the paper shredder. And Howard offers to help piece the shredded paper together.

[Ryan Tillotson]

What a task. Detective Williams is back.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Who's there? Nypd.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And she wants to interview everyone in the show. Charles and Oliver seem to be acting like idiots trying to listen in on the interviews, but it turns out to be part of Their plan. And they set up a GoPro so they can watch the interviews later.

[Maggie Bowles]

So smart. Loretta confronts Oliver about him stealing the book. And Oliver apologizes and he tells her that Mabel thinks it's Dickie that killed Ben. And so Loretta goes and talks to Mabel. She tries to convince her that it was not Dickie, but maybe it was Bobo or KT.

[Ryan Tillotson]

KT's a bitch.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's what she says.

[Bob Pulcini]

KT.

[Ryan Tillotson]

What a.

[Bob Pulcini]

Could be.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Charles records all 2 minutes and 46 seconds of the Pattersong. And it's even wilder than we could have imagined.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Angelic little triplets or triple threats.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Mabel and Howard manage to piece a page together, but it doesn't make any sense. Then Mabel sees rat poison in KT's eyes. Office.

[Maggie Bowles]

Loretta and Donna have a talk in the bathroom. And Donna says something kind of dubious about a mother doing anything for her child.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oliver tells Loretta he loves her. Maxine says the show is pure Oliver Putnam. Dickie tells Loretta about the relief he felt when he thought Ben was dead.

[Maggie Bowles]

Then during Loretta's song, Charles and Mabel discover Loretta's letter to Dickie telling him that she's his mother. And Loretta sees the cops trying to take Dickie away. And she jumps up, she stops singing, and she takes the blame for Ben's murder. And the music comes to a halt.

[Bob Pulcini]

And then I killed Ben.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oliver has a heart attack.

[Maggie Bowles]

And then Oliver collapses. He has a heart attack. A huge episode.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Oliver, what's going on? Oliver. Hey, Oliver.

[Bob Pulcini]

Oliver, wake up.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Call somebody. Get some help. Oliver, help. You hear me? Come on. Oliver, come back. Somebody there? Come on, Oliver. Freeze that. Get some help.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Welcome back. And here are the directors of episode eight, Bob and Sherry. We have just finished episode eight, so we are caught up. Still don't know who the killer is.

[Maggie Bowles]

Big episode.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Really big episode.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Big episode.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

[Bob Pulcini]

What's most fun? Most fun?

[Sherry Springer Berman]

It's so much fun. And I can't believe we got paid for it now. It's one of those kinds of jobs. And, you know, you get a call that's like. So do you want to do an episode with Meryl Streep of Only Murders in the Building? Yes.

[Maggie Bowles]

You're like, let me check my schedule.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Yeah.

[Bob Pulcini]

And it didn't disappoint. It was as wonderful, if not more wonderful than we actually expected.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Because this is your first time directing something for Only Murders. You're new on this season.

[Bob Pulcini]

Were new.

[Maggie Bowles]

What was it like coming in to? You know, it's. I feel like they've kind of established a lot Already, you know, even though they're always bringing new stuff in. What was your experience like coming into the only Murders Family Crew team?

[Bob Pulcini]

Well, we've both been super fans and watching it since season one, so we. We had no catching up to do about who was who and where the plot was. But it's an incredibly welcoming, wonderful group of people. I mean, John Hoffman is just like the warmest, funniest, kindest person, and then everybody who works around him echoes that. And then the cast is so fun, so funny. It just. Every day, at the end of the day, we were like, I can't believe we just got to do that. How much fun was that? And I really don't say that all the time.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

I can't express how much Martin Short and Steve Martin have meant to me over the years. Like, and obviously Meryl Streep. And I love Selena Gomez. The addition of Selena Gomez on the show. I mean, she's just so phenomenal with. With all their chemistry. But, like, you know, I grew up with all these idolizing these people, and it was very hard for me not to, like, try to recite the jerk word for word or break into my, you know, Jiminy Glick imitations. Like, I know them all. I grew up as, like, an SCTV fanatic. I just. These guys are such icons to me. So I just, you know, I love the show, and I was just so thrilled when we got the call.

[Maggie Bowles]

And I feel like you get some really, really. I mean, I guess every episode has some great Martin Short and Steve Martin bits, but this episode, with their, like, scheme to get the GoPro in the dressing room, I feel like they both get to do some really good, hilarious physical comedy. Physical comedy.

[Bob Pulcini]

I hope one day they come out with, you know, the outtakes, because I cannot tell you how many things. I mean, you couldn't put it how many all takes there were for both of them with physical comedy that you. You. I could have just watched for hours. I mean, you have to call cut, right? You have to stop and move on. But I didn't want to because it was so amazing, and I hope it sees the light of day. I mean, this was just our episode. I can't imagine for all the, you know, episodes for all the seasons, how much great physical comedy and just comedy in general, watching both of them go at it was amazing.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

I mean, the scripts are fantastic, but some of the funniest things are just like, Steve Martin getting up out of a seat, you know, and what he turns that into or, you know, or

[Bob Pulcini]

Martin Short Making fun of Steve Martin, like, endlessly.

[Maggie Bowles]

We hear there's some really good ones of that.

[Ryan Tillotson]

He does that a lot.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's what I mean.

[Bob Pulcini]

It was like, in the ongoing comedy show for us.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I bet that sounds great. Okay, so like we were saying, this is a big episode, a lot of threads coming together. Can you tell us about some of those pieces that you had to connect? Challenges, maybe, in that process?

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Sure. I mean, I don't know how technical.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Let's do it.

[Maggie Bowles]

Ryan loves the technical stuff.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Well, you know, it was, you know, how people take hold of the narrative at certain points. And this was what was exciting for us, is that this was Loretta's taking, you know, chance to take over the narrative. So there was a kind of shooting style that established young Loretta in her New York youth that we wanted to kind of recall and add to. So that was something that was really fun. And then to kind of expand on that and bring her into the story, you know, in a way that reflected her past and her present. And so, you know, the kind of opening with the voiceover was a really lovely opportunity to kind of compose really nice shots. And, you know, there's nothing more fulfilling than telling a story without that alone, you know, as a filmmaker. And they give you this great opportunity to do that, you know, in the way they introduce each episode. And then to add Meryl Streep's voice, you know, to those images is just like the gift from God.

[Bob Pulcini]

And then later on, we also got to tell a story with that dialogue, which was very challenging, which was during the Patterson for a nursery rhyme.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Which of the Pickwick triplets did it? Which of the spawn had the brawn two killed? Will a baby get tried for that trust sign? Coochoo coo choochoo coo Hungry you or you or you could man it so quick as a whip Got a pick wit spin flick trip but did it.

[Bob Pulcini]

I still have not stopped hearing in my head how many months later. I mean, it was endless. It's just. You can't get it out of your head. It's such a new worm. And so during the Pattersong, which Steve brilliantly performs, we have to then intercut all of these things happening. You know, the GoPro, the hiding, the police coming into the audience of the theater. There was interaction between Loretta and Dickie. There was like, all these things happening, and they had to sort of happen without any explanation, just sort of under this patter song. So it was.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

But the timing of the song was fixed.

[Maggie Bowles]

Right.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

So we had to kind of plan out Those images and how we could communicate all those things through dividing up the screen, you know, while he's, you know, nailing the pattersong finally. Oh, man, it was really fun. We did like some mockups of that, presented it to storyboards of, like all

[Ryan Tillotson]

these split screens or kind of thing like that. We were talking to Shelley about it.

[Maggie Bowles]

Here's that conversation with two of those editors, Shelley Westerman and Peyton Koch, about that process.

[Bob Pulcini]

That one as scripted, Charles does his pattersong. And as scripted, it's all split screens. And we're like, oh, my God, how are we gonna do this? Like, that's so dependent on the framing of each. And at some point there's multiple. It's not just split in two, there's multiples, like three screens. And then they pop in and out and go all over. And we're like, what are we gonna do? Luckily, thank God, we had Bob and Sherry, our directors, and Bob had a plan and he said, here's what I think we should do. And he mapped it out in an email. And we made title cards with each scene. And kind of, because it's to a song that's going to be consistent, we were able to mock it up with title cards. And it was a joint effort. I started, then Peyton jumped in. Deanna Hyatt, Peyton's assistant, jumped in. We colored coded the title card so you could see, like, what action was going where. And we had the whole thing mocked up before they even trot it.

[Maggie Bowles]

Wow.

[Bob Pulcini]

This is another testament to having that relationship with Bob and Sherry and having that communication and trust and kind of going back and forth with them. And then. So they brought that to set into pre, you know, meetings before they shot. And we're able to say, we have a plan. This is how we have to frame each bit to go in it. And everybody was amazed. And it was definitely a huge joint effort. And it looks great. I'm really proud of it.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's big.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Maggie Bowles]

Do you feel like you could do the Pattersong by heart now? Do you think you know it?

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Yes, 100%. You have no idea. Those songs are like burned into our head. Like, it's insane. I went to bed singing them a lot.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, I've been singing the Pattersong a lot.

[Bob Pulcini]

It could be a TikTok challenge for sure.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay, back to Bob and Sherry.

[Bob Pulcini]

Shelly's great and we've worked with her before, so we have, like a long history. We worked years ago together, and it was fantastic working with her. And it was great to, like, plan this Out. Because I think if we hadn't planned it out, it would have been a holy mess putting it together.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, man.

[Bob Pulcini]

And it really worked like our. I think we wound up going with pretty much the exact split screen that we laid out in pre production.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Wow. All right. It was really fun to hear the pattern because we'd heard it, you know, we heard Matthew Broderick do a version of it. We heard Steve Martin in, like, episode.

[Maggie Bowles]

Rehearsing it.

[Bob Pulcini]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Trying to get through the first verse.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But it was fun to hear it, like, with the full orchestra, you know, the whole.

[Maggie Bowles]

The, like, the intro to it was really great. And, I mean, I just. I'm. I. I think I have dreams about it last night. And then driving here, I was like,

[Bob Pulcini]

you will not forget it. A month from now, you'll still be singing.

[Maggie Bowles]

Like, part of me wants to learn all the lyrics, so just. I have it, you know, just in my back pocket. An emergency.

[Bob Pulcini]

Well, Steve was such a rock star doing it because he had to do it multiple times through.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, my God.

[Bob Pulcini]

I can imagine, you know, on. On the stage when we were shooting it. And one of the hardest things was, you know, not ruining takes by laughing hysterically in the middle of it. So it was. It was really hard.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Did that happen often?

[Bob Pulcini]

Did it happen? I'm pretty sure everybody laughed. I don't think it was a lot

[Sherry Springer Berman]

of, like, quiet tension while he was doing it. Kind of the way the characters. Because it's so hard and it's. It's long and it's.

[Bob Pulcini]

The first one's muffled laughter.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

But the lyrics are so funny. I mean, every time he did it, I would hear another lyric that I hadn't heard before, and I. You know, it starts to chuckle.

[Bob Pulcini]

And there was. I think, the first time when he came out to do it, there was, like, the same tension that was happening for everybody in the story. Whereas, like, is he gonna be able to get through this? Is this gonna take? Because there's always time crunch. And this was a very ambitious episode with a lot of singing and a lot.

[Maggie Bowles]

So much.

[Bob Pulcini]

And he. You know, we're like, is he gonna make it? Is it gonna. Is he gonna go to that room or whatever? And he made it. He was great. And he did it over and over again.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Cootie coochie coo what if none of it is true? Has my inspection been too cursory? Should I look outside this nursery? What if none of the pig went tricks, let's fit it could have had a medicine motive and in it who, who, who? Well, I pick you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We're going to take a quick break and when we come back, more with Bob and Sherry. We'll talk about Mabel and Loretta's moment backstage and Steve Martin's dedication to the show. Have you done a lot of music in the past, like with your films, with other shows, things like that? It was this. A new experience. How was it?

[Sherry Springer Berman]

We've done a lot of music over our career. A lot of. A lot of. For some reason, a lot of performed music on screen kind of thing. So we had. We had a lot of experience with it. And I mean, I was a musician before I started filmmaking, so if there's music, I'm very excited, you know, if music is part of the actual story. Yeah, I'm really into it. We even made a movie about a. We made a little movie about a straight edge punk band. It was called 10,000 saints and Ethan Hawke and Ace of Butterfield.

[Bob Pulcini]

Butterfield, Haley Steinfeld.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

And it was really challenging, you know, the music in it, because that music is not easy to sync up. I mean, I don't want to get too technical, but you know, it's. It was, but it was. That's why we loved doing it. It was really fun. Interesting.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Is it? Is it? I now I just have questions about this straight edge punk thing.

[Bob Pulcini]

It's based on a really great book by Ell Eleanor Henderson called 10,000 saints.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay.

[Bob Pulcini]

It's a. It was a great book.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Really mainstream kind of.

[Bob Pulcini]

Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. The music is really similar to the music in Only Murders.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I can only imagine. Sorry.

[Bob Pulcini]

The Pattersong and Minor Threat have a lot in common.

[Maggie Bowles]

They do, they do.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But from what I hear that when you're shooting it, they're like. You're using a mixture of like their live recording and like the pre recorded stuff. Does that create any challenges?

[Bob Pulcini]

Oh God, yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Well, now this one too. There's the whole orchestra, which makes it even more complicated, right?

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Yeah. Especially for Steve, you know, it was. It's putting a lot on his plate. And we had a supervisor there who

[Bob Pulcini]

Ian, who was amazing.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

It was fantastic, but very strict. Really.

[Bob Pulcini]

He was.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Wanted the breaths to be taken at the right moment and we would have

[Bob Pulcini]

to redo takes because of the breaths, you know, which is challenging, you know, again on a TV shoot schedule. But he was amazingly exact. And then in post production, everybody was thrilled because it works so well.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Yeah. Then you choose which pieces you use live and which pieces you use for the pre record.

[Bob Pulcini]

The only person who didn't sing with the pre record was Meryl who Wanted to sing live and, you know, of course, did it perfectly impossible too, for what she had. Yeah, she had to talk and then perform.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Performance breaks.

[Maggie Bowles]

I got chills during that last one of Meryl's song in this episode.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Go. No, I won't bend and I won't

[Bob Pulcini]

break There are precious lives at stake

[Sherry Springer Berman]

I'll die before I never let him go. No.

[Bob Pulcini]

For the sake.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

No, for the sake. Stop.

[Bob Pulcini]

For the sake. I did it. And she did it again. She did it. You know. You know, amazingly, it's really fascinating to

[Sherry Springer Berman]

watch her because she. I mean, what can you say about Meryl Streep that hasn't been said? But, you know, she. You see the process with every take, you know, of her feeling the right. Right kind of fit for the words and it changes and then it. It's perfection. You know what I mean? Like, it's really interesting to.

[Bob Pulcini]

It was really interesting for me and for. I think for us, you know, there's a certain level of like, oh, my God, it's Meryl Streep. And she immediately kind of makes everybody feel comfortable, you know, and makes you feel like, oh, she's okay, she's nice. She's gonna. This is gonna be okay. She goes out of her way to make you feel comfortable.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Selena had this really lovely scene with her that kind of. It's also quite funny and which of course she nails and. But you know, like, she kept. She. At one point she said, it's like, like, I have to go back and find my lines because I realize I'm looking at Meryl Streep, you know.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

You know, the iconic status that she brings, I think for actors is.

[Bob Pulcini]

But she really goes out of her way to make everybody feel comfortable and not intimidated.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's what we keep hearing.

[Bob Pulcini]

You know, I was worried. I tried to. I tried to explain it to my son, like the night before I have the 16 year old son, I was like, like, it's like, you know, she's like the Tom Brady of acting. And he's like, oh, now I know why you're so nervous.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's a great analogy. I think she would appreciate that.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bob Pulcini]

And he, he got it. He got. Then he understood and then he was

[Sherry Springer Berman]

like, tell me more about Selena Gomez. Sure.

[Maggie Bowles]

I imagine it was also hard for Selina in that scene, in this episode, the specific scene, because, like, I feel like Meryl's kind of being like, very subtle and things, but then she's also being very funny with like, well, KT's a bitch. You know,

[Bob Pulcini]

we all cast at. It was a hard scene, but Selina, you know, she totally got it. She's such a pro. But it was a hard scene to get the right sort of texture of it, you know, the right. It was. There was, like, very subtle things going on in it. Yeah.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Selina did this nice thing where she almost. Loretta almost brings her in, but then she immediately gets out. You know, finding those moments, I think, was, you know, she's. I think Selena's easy and convenient. Nobody better at before.

[Bob Pulcini]

Pin it on him. You should know that there is a cast of much odder characters around this show. I'm just going to throw a name out. Bobo. We don't really know Bobo, do we? He's the comic relief. But is the comedy hiding something sinister? I thought Poison was a woman's method. Oh, yeah, right, right. So kt.

[Ryan Tillotson]

What a bitch.

[Bob Pulcini]

Could be. I'm just trying to picture Dickie as a murderer and.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Bob Pulcini]

And. No, I can't.

[Maggie Bowles]

So at the end of this episode, emotions are running really high. Loretta has admitted to killing Ben and Oliver has collapsed. And adding to that emotion, it's this long camera pull up the eye of the theater.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

We really wanted to get that. The final shot of, you know, our episode, which was kind of this really fast pullback down the aisle of the theater, which was. Which was tricky, you know, the way the theater was built. And the initial call was that it was going to take way too long. And Steve was, I think, supposed to go home, right? Yeah, it wasn't going to take that long, but there was a conversation.

[Bob Pulcini]

The DP kind of said, well, it could take two hours to set up.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

And Steve offered to go home and have dinner and then come back.

[Bob Pulcini]

I've never had. I've never had an actor offer to do that. It was the nicest thing.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

We didn't have to do it.

[Bob Pulcini]

Didn't have to do it. I was like. But it was just the fact that he offered to do that was so amazing. That's so sweet. Most actors that leave don't ever want most people. Most crew people, anybody. Once you leave, you've gone for the day.

[Maggie Bowles]

What a mensch.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

I know.

[Bob Pulcini]

What a mensch.

[Maggie Bowles]

I loved. In the opening of the episode earlier, you were talking about, like, you know, telling a story without words. And I love how there's the space between when the picture starts and we see Loretta in her apartment and her voiceover starts, because we've been waiting to hear from this character for eight episodes.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

You know, her apartment was really Fun, you know, the way it was designed to shoot in it told her story. I think so. Well, yeah, and it's so.

[Bob Pulcini]

I mean, we live in New York and I know people, actors, many. I worked very early while I was still in film school. Very early in my career I worked at a company called American Playhouse that did like indie films and indie PBS like shows and stuff like that. And I remember I worked with this woman who was an actress who basically didn't really make a career of, you know, make a living as an actress and worked for American Playhouse as the receptionist. And I was young and like idealistic at the time. And she invited me, she asked me to go back to. We like went out to get lunch or something and she said, oh, I want to get something at my apartment. She had an apartment in the theater district, which was not far from our office. And I had never seen anything like this. She had Loretta's apartment. She had this tiny apartment, but everything was in a compartment. I remember she had this loft, this like loft space with boxes, playbills everywhere. Yeah, it was so. And she was Loretta. I mean, she. Except I don't think she ever got the break. You know, it's a little heartbreaking and very true.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, that's one of the things that John was telling us about was that, you know, everybody in the industry knows these people, that it's not a lack of talent or, you know, a lack of wanting or trying that.

[Bob Pulcini]

That they never get their big break,

[Maggie Bowles]

their break, you know, and that there's this, you know, it's a brutal. A brutal career path, you know, it is.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

And yet. Yet they are who they are and they can't stop, you know, because they love it so much.

[Bob Pulcini]

I mean, I mean, it's funny, you know, we've been directing for a long time and there's a lot of times I would like, we would audition back in the old days when we actually did in person auditions and not, you know, and people didn't send us self tapes. But I mean, I loved the in person because you got to actually talk to people and you got to know people that you didn't cast. And there'd be people who came in who were fantastic, perfect, but for one reason or another, just not right for the role, you know, and, you know, and it breaks your heart because you can't. You can only cast one person and you're like, this person's gonna walk away and they're not getting their chance and they're not. And you know, I don't want Them to be discouraged. But so, you know, I feel like it's a very heartbreaking business.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We'll be back with Bob and Sherry after one more quick break to talk a little bit more about the technical side of all the action unfolding during the song performance and what it's like working with a spouse.

[Maggie Bowles]

I was very curious about that part.

[Ryan Tillotson]

When you say you go in prepared. And we kind of touched on this briefly before with your storyboards and stuff, specifically with the Pattersong. Are you saying, like, we need to get all these shots during this? These lines of the song. Is that how you're planning that out or. I guess I'm just curious.

[Maggie Bowles]

He wants the technical stuff.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I like the technical stuff. Yeah.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Yeah.

[Bob Pulcini]

I mean, basically, this is very technical.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Basically. I had Shelly cut a split screen with words.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. Okay.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

What would be happening in all those different things?

[Bob Pulcini]

So we'd say. And then we kind of pieced.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

You know, they just cover a word in the shredding.

[Bob Pulcini]

Right, right.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Something like that.

[Bob Pulcini]

It would say it and then layered over, it would be the patter song. And then it go wide and reveal. You know, the police enter or whatever.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

And it was just. There was a lot of like, how are we going to do this given the time? And I said, let's work backwards. Let's start with the song. Work backwards. Start dividing up the moments and see what. Let's make sure everything. We have the time for everything to fit. One of the hardest things to do in the show was figuring out the timing between. I mean, this is technical, please. The timing of Selina and Steve finding the book in Loretta's bag while Loretta is performing.

[Bob Pulcini]

Yes, that was. We had to do that while.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

While Dickie's getting questioned by the police and where Meryl's attention is at the moment. And then timing the. Their realization. You know, they're having the realization that Dickie is her son. Simultaneous to them. So all of. And then there's a song involved. So all of that. That was one of the hardest things, actually, because that actually, you know, Meryl's live performance kind of led that and that, you know, we kind of had to really struggle with in the editing room.

[Bob Pulcini]

And she had to really see, because we.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

It's like, when do we cut away from her? When do we also.

[Bob Pulcini]

She had. She had to. As an actor to have her real intention or whatever. She had to see the police come up to Dickie and take him so she could say, wait, wait, and break out of song. So all had to be timed. It's a Little. It was. It was. You know, even though it's film, there was almost a theatrical aspect to it because things had to be planned out so carefully.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Right. And you didn't. And because she was singing it live, you didn't. You couldn't rely on the pre record, I guess, like you could with the Patterson for timing. For timing, yeah.

[Bob Pulcini]

Yeah, yeah. Right. We didn't have a pre record to practice with.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. Hmm. Interesting.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. I have a question, though. So you. You are married.

[Bob Pulcini]

Yes.

[Maggie Bowles]

And you work together?

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Oh, yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

I don't know if you know this. He and I are married.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Bob Pulcini]

Wow. There you go.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

How's it going? It's okay.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It's great.

[Bob Pulcini]

It's great.

[Maggie Bowles]

We've been married for just over a year, but we've been together for a very long time.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Congratulations.

[Maggie Bowles]

Thank you so much. And we also work together, and I was just curious about working with your spouse. Like, did you always work together? Has that been a foundational part of your relationship? Or is that something. You guys both were interested in the same field, so you started working together. What's. What's it like working with your.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. Great question.

[Maggie Bowles]

With your partner?

[Bob Pulcini]

We met at Columbia Film School.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay.

[Bob Pulcini]

Many, many years ago. Graduate school for film. And we actually started working together first. We sort of like our first project that we had to do, which was, like, some little video. Bob asked me if I would act in it, and I was like, sure, but then you have to act in it.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

And I said, you should be a director. We made short films, and Shari produced my short film, and I edited her short film. And then we decided to start writing together. So we started kind of writing together, and then we actually started directing documentaries together.

[Bob Pulcini]

But we got married before we started.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Yes. And somewhere along that career path, we got married consulting.

[Bob Pulcini]

It just became like, oh, we're spending so much time together. So I always say that. I don't know about you guys, but I always say that I think it helped that we worked together first because we had our kind of work relationship figured out, and then the romantic thing came after. So in a weird way, it evolved from a work relationship.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

But as you guys know, you never have to say at the end of the day, how'd your day go? It's like, it's true. Which is. There's something nice about that, because it's hard. You know, I know a lot of people were in the arts, and their spouse or their significant other isn't, and it's sometimes very hard to communicate those things to people.

[Maggie Bowles]

How long have you been married and how long have you been working together? I'm still interested in this topic.

[Bob Pulcini]

This is encouraging for you guys. We've been married 29 years.

[Maggie Bowles]

Holy cow.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

All right.

[Bob Pulcini]

Yeah. Holy cow. It's possible we can do it working together probably 30 years, you know. Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Wow.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We got this. Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

So I'm also curious what. Another question about this, though. Do you feel like you have similar strengths or different strengths that you bring together to your creative relationship? Like, maybe Bob's really good at one. One sort of aspect. Sherry, you bring another aspect, or do you feel like, how do you feel with that balance of creative power?

[Bob Pulcini]

I'll let you answer that, Bob.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Yes, we do. I mean, it's. It.

[Bob Pulcini]

It.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

It's interesting because it probably doesn't fall along gender lines the way people would imagine, too, you know, like, these assumptions people have. But we've learned over the years, like, oh, you've got this. You take. You take this, and I'll take this, and you're good with this actor. This actor. It's nice having that kind of discussions and realizing we know each other well enough to know this is your milieu. You should handle this. And it's interesting. Sher's got an amazing producerial and schedule things that I'm not good at, so I know to let her lead in those areas. And, you know, on set, I think I tend to work more with the visuals and, like, the DP and Jerry tends to be, like, to be right in the middle of everything with the actors, and. Which is very helpful because it's good to have someone watching the shots and watching the performance from that perspective. And it's also really good to have someone there live and feeling it and feeling what the actors need. And my advice to you, because you kind of. You don't have to know all those things, but you'll discover them along the way. You know, what your. Where your strengths are and where your strengths are.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, I love that. I love that.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I've got one. One more question. You kind of. You talked about one of the things that was the most difficult in this, in shooting your episode. And I'm curious if there was something that was. What was, like, the most fun.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

My God, it was all fun. I can't. I don't think I could pick. You know, like, it was just all fun. Everything about it was fun. And I think one of the, you know, really surprising things, you know, because the comedians are so brilliant at comedy. But, like, you know, seeing Martin short, Meryl Streep and their Chemistry together in the more emotional scenes was really fun and really rewarding. And, you know, I. I think, you know, in those kinds of situations, it's like, let's see what they want to do, you know, let's see where they want to be. Let's see how they want to play it. Because they had such a kind of beautiful pour with each other, you know, and it was very evident to me in watching the previous episodes, you know, because there was all. You know, we had some nice scenes with them together and. And I was like, oh, this is an interesting thread. And when I saw them together, it just made perfect sense, you know, and who would think, right?

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love seeing. Yeah, I love seeing that side of Martin Short. I don't feel like I've ever seen that.

[Bob Pulcini]

You know, He's a really good actor. Yeah, he really.

[Maggie Bowles]

Very good.

[Bob Pulcini]

Brought it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love it.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. I was saying, I think I told John, like, that the Meryl Streep and. And Martin short love story is the thing I. I didn't realize I needed.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

But I needed it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It's so good. It's so good.

[Bob Pulcini]

I completely agree. And they really take it to another level. It's like. It's like, real. It's realized. It's really. You really are rooting for them.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You are. Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

And then. And this episode, I feel like, is a very emotional one in that because Oliver says, I love you, which is huge. And then Loretta takes the fall, which is huge. And he has a heart attack. Like, this is, like, this is so much big. This is a huge episode. You know, you have, like, a lot to do.

[Bob Pulcini]

I know. It's like, I love you. Wait, I did it.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Bob Pulcini]

Like.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Yeah.

[Bob Pulcini]

It's all within, like, five minutes.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I know.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

At the end. I don't know many shows that could pull that off, but this show does exactly.

[Bob Pulcini]

They pull everything off.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Such a specific tone that's so unique and rare that I. It's just. Yeah.

[Bob Pulcini]

And, you know, it was also so much fun is when we weren't shooting, when they were setting up and just sitting and talking to these amazing actors and these amazing legends, you know, just sitting around like, that was just amazing.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I know. I bet. I want to. I'd like to just be a fly on the wall for that. That'd be great.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. That's it for today. We'll be back later this week with showrunner and co creator John Hoffman to talk about the return of Detective Williams and unearthing some key pieces of evidence the trio will need to solve Ben's

[Ryan Tillotson]

murder and of course, your theories. See you then. Only Murders in the Pod is a production of Straw Hut Media. This episode was written, edited and hosted by Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillotson, with additional editing and sound mixing by Daniel Ferreira. Motion graphics for promotional materials are by Ali Ahmed with graphic design by Mohammed Samir. Our associate producer is Steven Markley. Original music by Kyle Merritt and only Murders theme music by Siddhartha Khosla. Big, big thanks to John Hoffman, Javier Salas, Emily Leets, Yasmin Azarakish, Lydia McMahon, Cindy Neighbor, and the rest of the Hulu team. And thanks to Keener and kk we wish you were with us this season.

[Maggie Bowles]

We miss you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Do you guys. I assume you do know who the killer is now.

[Bob Pulcini]

I do know who the killer is, but I will not reveal it under any.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

I know, but I. I know because I heard people gossiping on set. I didn't read the last. The scripts that follow ours. I. I just didn't want to, unless I had to for something that we were involved in a dis. You know, I'd read the scenes or something, but I know who it is. I avoided trying to find out. I just picked up things with people talking after they, you know, read the scripts and stuff.

[Maggie Bowles]

So, yeah, I have a theory now.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, we'll see.