S4 E1: Once Upon a Time in the West

Summary

Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast
Season 4, Episode 1: "Once Upon a Time in the West"
Release Date: August 28, 2024
Host: Michael Cyril Creighton (Howard), with Ryan Tillotson and Maggie Bowles
Guests: John Hoffman (Showrunner, Co-Creator, Director/Co-Writer Ep1), Joshua Allen Griffith (Co-Writer Ep1)

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Episode Overview

The Season 4 premiere of the Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast dives into the making and thematic layers of the latest TV season opener, "Once Upon a Time in the West." Hosts Maggie and Ryan are joined by showrunner John Hoffman and co-writer Joshua Allen Griffith for an insider discussion on the episode’s emotional arc, narrative surprises, and the show’s temporary LA detour. The episode is packed with behind-the-scenes insights, playful banter, and fan theory highlights from the Only Murders subreddit.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Season 4 Approach: Whose Season Is It?

• Who Does This Season Belong To?
  Each prior season focused on a main character (Mabel, Charles, Oliver). Hoffman explains:
  John Hoffman [04:40]:
  “There's a natural lean in for Charles because of the victim at the end of season three. And yet we were very conscious … to lean into all three and their particular situations. ... The trio [is] working this mystery together throughout the season. In sort of half protection mode because they weren't sure who the intended target was.”
• The show balances comedy and drama by placing the trio in emotional danger while layering in Hollywood-level hijinks (film adaptation of their podcast).

2. New Additions & Hollywood Detour

• LA Filming Adventure
  The main cast is whisked off to LA, prompting logistical headaches and exciting opportunities. John Hoffman [07:52]:
  “I was directing the first two episodes … you could only have [three planned days in LA], then we all had to head back and start shooting in New York.”
• Molly Shannon as Bev Mellon
  Bev, an energetic movie producer, jumpstarts the plot to adapt the trio’s podcast into a film.
  John Hoffman [05:41]:
  "The chance to get to work with [Molly Shannon] again was like the greatest thrill… She just knocks it out of the park."

3. Bold Narrative Choices & Reflections

• The Home Movies Opener:
  The episode opens on actual childhood footage of the leads, connecting to the season’s central motif of self-examination and reflection.
  John Hoffman [13:24]:
  “It just felt like the ones that popped... matched up with the script. ... It's a whole season of reflecting upon what you've done and who you are now.”
• Theme of Dopplegangers & Moving Images:
  The season deals with representations—movie versions of themselves, doubles, and being seen in new ways.
  John Hoffman [14:18]:
  “The entire season was written thinking in those terms: film, reflections of yourself, doppelgangers. ... This is a season of asking, is that who I used to be? Or who I want to be?”

4. Episode 1: Recap & On-Set Anectodes

• Plot Summary
  [02:02-03:54]

  • The trio resumes their podcast, searches for missing Saz, and is scouted for a Hollywood film adaptation (with stars Eugene Levy, Zach Galifianakis, and Eva Longoria as their "movie selves").
  • The mystery of Saz’s disappearance deepens, culminating in the grim discovery of her ashes and prosthetics in the incinerator.
  • Hilarious casting quirks introduce “the brothers sisters,” new directors for the film within the show.

• Meryl Streep’s Grand Entrance as Loretta
  [10:07]
  Maggie Bowles: “Another thing about that party, when Meryl Streep walks in in that black gown, I was like—”
  John Hoffman: “It was a slay entrance and that's what we were looking for. ... There she was looking like that and it kind of catches you breathless.”
  Production shot these scenes into the late hours, “till a good two or three in the morning.” [11:02]

5. Mystery Mechanics & Writers’ Room

• The “Murder Board”
  Joshua Allen Griffith describes the complex organization of the writers’ room, complete with boards tracking each character’s emotional journey and all potential red herrings.
  Griffith [18:24]:
  “It gets ‘Beautiful Mind’ very quick.”

• Handling Saz’s Body & Emotional Stakes
  The decision not to have the trio discover Saz’s body directly was made to preserve emotional tone and leverage Steve Martin’s comedy skills for the “ashes” sequence.
  Griffith [26:17]:
  “We wanted to give Steve Martin the opportunity to use his physical comedy genius in a way that was both funny and mournful … If he happened upon her body in the flesh, [that] wouldn’t have been possible.”

• Practical Magic: The Bullet Hole Whistle
  The eerie whistling sound in Charles’ apartment is actually Griffith himself:
  Griffith [28:32]:
  “It’s my mouth making that noise. ... I was simultaneously proud and a little let down … but yeah, that’s me.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “Brothers Sisters” Joke’s Origin:
  John Hoffman [29:55]:
  “I have a weakness for a really dumb joke… Pete Swanson in the writers room pitched it… ‘What if their last name is the Brothers, but they’re known as the Brothers Sisters?’ … I’m in love with it.”
• On the Sergio Leone Homage:
  Griffith [24:19]:
  “We were intrigued by the notion of cinematic storytelling at its most fundamental… to tell a story with images without words… so much of what the season is about is the moving image.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Recap of Episode 1 "Once Upon a Time in the West": [02:02-03:54]
• Whose Season Is Season 4?: [04:25-05:24]
• On Working With Molly Shannon: [05:41-06:13]
• Filming in LA, Production Drama: [07:39-10:03]
• Meryl Streep’s Entrance at the Party: [10:07-11:13]
• On the Home Movies Opener and Season Theme: [13:09-16:44]
• Inside the Writers’ Room: The Murder Boards: [18:18-19:30]
• Developing the Brothers Sisters: [20:00-21:46, 29:37-30:49]
• Decision Not to Show Saz’s Body: [26:17-27:42, 32:18-33:20]
• Behind the Bullet Hole Whistle: [27:52-28:50]
• Fan Theories from Reddit (Hannah): [37:25-41:28]

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Fan Theories & Community Highlights

• Reddit moderator Hannah shares wild speculation, including:
  • Was Saz the target or was Charles? Or even Scott Bakula?
  • Theory that Saz was protecting Charles and took the bullet for him [37:25-41:28]
  • Open excitement for the return of fan-favorite characters Detective Williams and Meryl Streep’s Loretta.

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Tone and Takeaways

The tone is irreverent, insider-y, and brimming with affection between hosts and guests. Hoffman and Griffith delight in creative absurdities (the brothers sisters), unscripted production chaos, and the ongoing evolution of their beloved Arconia trio. Underneath the humor lies a focus on self-reflection, identity, and the emotional toll of murder mysteries—both real and fictional.

John Hoffman [34:24]:
“I hope that people really like that we’re back to a mystery-based story that’s emotionally connected to the trio in a way that… is big and right for us… and across the season is always a good thing.”

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Summary

The official podcast’s first episode of Season 4 offers an engrossing deep-dive into "Once Upon a Time in the West," balancing production anecdotes with creative philosophy, spotlighting standout moments (Meryl Streep’s entrance, the brothers sisters gag, Saz’s missing body), the LA storyline, and the enduring chemistry of the central trio. Fan theories and subreddit energy demonstrate the passionate community awaiting more twists, hearts, and laughs—with or without an infinity pool nearby.

Transcript

[Hannah]

Straw Hut Media.

[Maggie Bowles]

So welcome back, John.

[John Hoffman]

Thank you.

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

Maggie and Ryan, thank you so, so

[Maggie Bowles]

much for being here. We're so excited to see you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, it's so good.

[John Hoffman]

Thank you so much. I'm so happy to see you too. I'm very excited to talk about yet another season of Only Murders in the Building with you two.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Hello. Welcome. We are back for season of the Only Murders in the Building podcast. I'm Ryan Tillotson.

[Maggie Bowles]

I am Maggie Bowles. We are back for season four. We're staying your hosts. We're also producing the show. We're still here.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yes.

[Maggie Bowles]

So today we're talking with showrunner co creator John Hoffman, also the director and co writer of episode one.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We will talk about some of the new additions to the cast this season, taking the trio to LA and watching the home movies of the stars.

[Maggie Bowles]

We're also gonna talk to John's co writer on this episode, Joshua Allen Griffith. The copious amounts of murder boards necessary to solve a mystery in the writer's room. Alright, shall we recap?

[Ryan Tillotson]

No, not yet. Before we recap, I want to tell you about some of the special guests we're going to have on the podcast this season.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, Ryan, maybe we should try and keep an element of surprise, but with

[Ryan Tillotson]

the strike last season, it's important that they know we're going big this time.

[Hannah]

Okay, fine.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Tell them Jane Lynch.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's right, Jane lynch says the one and only Saz Pataki.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I mean, if we're going to have her on one season of the pod, this is the one to have.

[Maggie Bowles]

This is the one to have.

[Ryan Tillotson]

The one to have. Jane Lynch.

[Maggie Bowles]

We're geeking out and we actually have

[Ryan Tillotson]

a bunch of others, but that's all I'm going to tell you for now.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, leave a little bit of surprise. All right, now we recap. Okay, before we recap, quick spoiler alert. We are going to talk about all of the specifics of episode one. So if you haven't seen it yet, go back and watch it now and then come back.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Here we go, episode one, Once Upon a Time in the West. We open up on home movies of Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez.

[Maggie Bowles]

And we pick up right where we left off last season. They're recording the final lines of the Only Murders in the Building podcast theirs. And they're wondering where Szaz is. So they head upstairs to Charles's apartment, but Szaz is not there.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Later, Charles keeps hearing a whistling sound in his apartment. Death rattle Dazzle is canceled and Howard has adopted A new dog, Gravy. Mabel's crashing with Oliver and someone named Bev Mellon wants to make a movie about their podcast and she wants to fly them all to LA for a meeting.

[Maggie Bowles]

Charles texts Saz and she finally responds and says she's working with Scott Bakula in la. So the trio decides that's enough reason to make the trip.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We meet Bev Mellon, played by Molly Shannon, and the brothers sisters, the two directors of their film. Charles and Oliver are on board, but Mabel holds out.

[Maggie Bowles]

So afterwards they stop by Saz's house because she stopped texting back, and they find her mail piled up and it looks like she has not been home for a while.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Definitely not. The trio arrives at a big party held in their honor, and we meet the movie stars that have been cast to play them. Eugene Levy, Zach Galifianakis, and Eva Longoria.

[Maggie Bowles]

So good. Loretta arrives to the party looking like a vision, and she and Oliver share a really sweet moment.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Eva Longoria convinces Mabel to do the movie and ask for a lot of money.

[Maggie Bowles]

We see Scott Bakula at the party, but he hasn't seen Szazz either. So they decide to break into Szaz's apartment, where they discover notes on her desk. It looks like she was looking into something.

[Ryan Tillotson]

While in la, they hear from Lester, someone put an order to replace Charles window in his name. They also hear from Howard. His new dog was once a cadaver dog.

[Maggie Bowles]

Explains a lot.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Mm.

[Maggie Bowles]

Back in New York, Gravy the dog leads them to the incinerator where they find Saz's Bulgarian joint replacements and her ashes. And the person who'd been texting from Saz's phone number tells Charles they're not his fucking friend. Welcome back. Over the last few seasons, we have talked to John Hoffman quite a lot.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, every season.

[Maggie Bowles]

Every season. And one of the things we've talked about is that season one felt like it was Mabel's season and season two felt like it was Charles's, and season three felt like Oliver's. And so that kind of begs the question, who does season four belong to?

[John Hoffman]

Season four, babe. We're flying through these suckers. It's interesting. There's a natural lean in for Charles story because of the victim at the end of season three. And yet we were very conscious in the writers room to lean into all three and their particular situations. And I think because of the nature of the crime and the concern for Charles, this combination of creating arcs for all three of the characters that had the trio working this mystery together throughout the season. In in sort of half protection mode because they weren't sure who the intended target was.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. And I feel like this season they get kind of like the cartoonish, oversimplified, maybe mean descriptions of who each of them are. Thanks to Bev. Yeah, Bev, played by the amazing Molly Shannon, which we were so excited.

[John Hoffman]

See, you know, Molly's like an old, dear, dear, dear friend of mine for many, many years and. And I've worked with her before once and. But this was. And it had been a while and. And so the chance to get to work with her again was like the greatest thrill. And it was like she. I just. She just knocks it out of the park, I think.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. We're watching her on the other two right now and she's just so fun.

[Maggie Bowles]

She's so good.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So fun.

[John Hoffman]

Greatest and the loveliest human being ever.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Gosh, I love hearing that.

[Maggie Bowles]

I could tell. So what was it like to get back on set this season, putting the show together and then filming it and being back?

[John Hoffman]

Yeah, I think the setup was really strong for an emotional storyline, but also that mix of an emotional story, which we like to do, a car crashing, tonal mix of an emotional storyline that was right at the core of one of our trio, particularly all three of our trio, as I said, in protection of that other person. And then buttressed right up against this hard, smashing kind of big news that they were going to make a film of the podcast they'd all created together. So those simultaneous forces happening felt like both great comedy fodder and great dramatic tension for them. So, yeah, it was a blast to sort of swing two different ways and then follow two different tracks of. Was Saz the target? Was Charles the target? And then subsequently the third element being this west tower and the residents of the Arconia that we have not quite gotten to know yet. So it was a great opportunity for like three tracks of story that. That felt really nice and clean and fun.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay, so last season you teased la, obviously, we had an idea that we would be coming to la. We're here. You did it. Can you tell us about shooting in la? How different is it? Where'd you shoot any iconic places?

[John Hoffman]

I mean, it was crazy. I was directing the first two episodes, so it was a huge bit of planning. And Kristen Bernstein, our brilliant producer, managed with both LA contingencies and knowing who would come from New York and how to balance that and. And set us up so beautifully. And, you know, I mean, Kyle, our dp, and I were so head down with Cedric Vara, our Brilliant AD and just really head down sort of planning out, mapping out, cross boarding and, you know, planning. Because we only had three days to shoot in la. And they were very specific days. And one was at Paramount and everything that we needed at Paramount. And then one was at this location for the apartment building for sas. And then one was this huge Hollywood party day that was bonkers. Huge for one day of shooting. And so we were within our frame, you know, you could only have that. And then we all had to head back and start shooting in New York. So all set to go. Everything was great. And then the day before, or I want to say it was like, yeah, the day before it was. It was clear Kyle had come down, our DP had come down with the flu in such a. Like. Like a major flu. Couldn't get out of bed.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, no.

[John Hoffman]

And we had no dp and we were in Los Angeles. And I, fortunately had worked on the Paramount lot on Grace and Frankie and I directed several episodes of that. And I knew a fantastic dp. I worked with Luke Miller. But to say to him, like, you need to come Tomorrow morning at 7am we start shooting. Are you free? And do you have any idea what this show is? And, you know, and I. And God love him, he dove in, he came, he. He had to move a couple of things, but he saved our asses. And I mean, followed along the plan, but also really was. He was brilliant and he really, like, made that work in a way that. That's backstage story.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Thank God for plans, right? Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

Huge.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Seriously. Another thing about that, that party, when Meryl Streep walks in in that black gown, I was like,

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

she.

[John Hoffman]

Hair, Helen, her.

[Maggie Bowles]

She left no crumbs for 35 years.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, no crumbs.

[Maggie Bowles]

Fantastic.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Hoffman]

It was a sleigh entrance and that's what we were looking for. And it wanted to feel like incidental, a bit tossed off, not too grand. And yet there she was looking like that and it was like, ah. Kind of catches you breathless. I know. That was a beautiful night. I want to say we were shooting that. I mean, it was probably 10:30 when we started shooting it. We had two other scenes we still needed to shoot. So we were there till a good two or three in the morning that night at that house.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

And all day before it.

[Maggie Bowles]

Wow.

[John Hoffman]

But, yeah. How stunning and fabulous and heartbreaking is she and Marty in that first scene?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, I know, yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

In my notes on the episode, it's just all caps. Stunning. Meryl Streep, stunning.

[John Hoffman]

I know, right?

[Maggie Bowles]

I like Grabbed Ryan.

[John Hoffman]

It was a good way. You know, there's been a lot of talk about LA and the show and there has never been any question for me that this is. We are a New York show and we will always be that. So there was a lot of worry about, oh, how much time in LA and that's gonna do this or that. But I did feel. I don't know, I hope people feel that it gave a. A surprising like, jolt to the storytelling in a way. And to see that trio in context and make sort of light, easy trophy jokes. But yeah, and put a new spin on them for la.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It's fun to see the trio out just in general, in general, in a new place, you know, so it's like. And I like your little trick because you. I think the opening shot when they're in LA is in a. In New York, on the Paramount lot in New York.

[John Hoffman]

Oh my God. Yes. Right? That was that. I'm so glad you like that. That was a. It was a real task. And. And I was like, oh my God, is this gonna play? And everyone in. That was so good too. All those people like is a oner. So they had to be perfect each time we did it.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

And. And I. Everyone from the screaming mother on the fire escape to the kid with the basketball and. And everybody the.

[Maggie Bowles]

What's it called? The fire hydrant. Squirting water.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah, those kids. Exactly.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

The kishes and hot dog guy.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Perfect.

[John Hoffman]

It was facing the cab. It was all ridiculous.

[Maggie Bowles]

A feast for the eyes.

[John Hoffman]

Well,

[Maggie Bowles]

we loved seeing the home movies cuz they're clearly real home movies. It's so cool to see everybody so young. How many did you get to watch? I guess to choose what you wanted.

[John Hoffman]

It was such, such limited footage, obviously, you know, because it was one of those things like, do you have. And I mean, I. I assume Selena had a lot more and she does in many ways, but you know, a lot of it is like she's young enough that it's like on, you know, your laptop or on a phone or so it's all very. It's not old home movie footage as Steve and Marty's were, but I. It came down to a very select few clips that we could use. It just felt like the ones that popped to me were so clear and they matched up with. It was sweet the way they matched up with the script. Ever since then we've had countless moving images emblazoned in our memories. And ever since then we've had a chance to ask, is that how I

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

Look, when I run, teacher said, I gotta do it.

[Maggie Bowles]

I'm gonna be crazy.

[John Hoffman]

You gotta help me over here. You better, girl. It's a whole season of reflecting upon what you've done and who you are now. And that started off, triggered by the victim is a stunt double, a Hollywood stunt double. So the entire season was written thinking in those terms of film, of reflections of yourself, doppelgangers. And right at the top of the season, Charles is narrating about film and looking at yourself. And as we all have home movies. And like, you look at you, you really do reflect and say, is that me or who I used to be? Or is that who I want to be? And that becomes the theme throughout the whole season. And in a way, it sort of strips away any reticence between our trio that has been there. You know, they. They came to know each other carefully through season one and, you know, seasons two and three. I watched them stretch, you know, into familiarity and more comfort.

[Maggie Bowles]

Help. Yes, I crashed at Oliver. Yes, I'm still homeless. Yes, this is his least offensive rope.

[John Hoffman]

We were very conscious of just, she's in Oliver's robe and she's coming down and, like, annoyed with them a little bit more. And she. Selina, felt very freed up in a way that I hadn't seen for this character as Mabel simultaneously. So that was, like, thrilling over and over and over again. I think she's never been funnier in this.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, I love that.

[John Hoffman]

You know, it's a. The show is about our trio and where they are in their lives. And I think it was time to do a season that, what have we created here with this podcast? And. And what kind of ways are we. And creating trouble? Did we get a dear friend killed now? All of it felt like, what are we doing? And asking ourselves? And being confronted by mirror reflections of yourself throughout a season seemed really interesting.

[Ryan Tillotson]

After the break, we talk to co writer of episode one, Joshua Allen Griffith. We hear about his perspective on the missing body at the crime scene and how to make the perfect sound of wind blowing through a bullet hole in the window of the 14th floor New York apartment. First of all, I guess before we get into episode specifics, how was it getting back in the room? How was it seeing everybody? How was it writing?

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

I mean, it was an enormous relief because we had not been allowed to really talk about the show or work on the show for so many months. And I was a strike captain on the Sony lot. So I was really out there every single day seeing a lot of the writers that I worked with on the show and missing them and missing the process. And so it was very joyous to, you know, get back in there, pass through the arch that we had been, like, walking around in front of for so many months. That was very emotional. And then it was also just to get into that weird mindset that you really only use when you're working on a mystery show, which is creating all of these logical, illogical, this, like, roller coaster of story. So in a sense, I feel like my brain had atrophied in those months a little bit. But once we were back into it, it was, you know, it was my third season on the show, and it felt like a homecoming.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Do you guys have a similar murder board in the writer's room?

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

Yes, we have several. We have. God, I'm trying to think if I were to walk back into the room today. You know, there's a board that says that that season would have said episodes 401 through 410, with every character, you know, on the left X axis and on the Y axis is the episodes. And you're sort of like putting up a note card for their emotional state for every episode, you know, tracking who they are over the course of the season. Then there's a separate one with just, like, random things that I think are more of like a wish list of things which could range from like. I don't want to spoil anything. God, I forgot about that. You know, like, bird, question mark. Does it talk? Like, does it narrate an episode that's, you know, like all sorts of random stuff? That's another board. Then there's per episode boards. Yeah, it gets Very Beautiful Mind very quick.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, sounds very cool.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's fun to imagine. Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Well, so in this season premiere, we meet a lot of new characters, so

[Ryan Tillotson]

those boards must have been even bigger this season.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. So can you. Can you tell us about some of. I mean, let's maybe. Let's start with the brothers sisters, which is hilarious. Conceptually, is very hilarious. But also, I recently discovered Catherine Cohen as a comedian, and she is so, so funny. So tell us about the brothers sisters and introducing them.

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

Oh, man. You know, pre casting, there were many. I don't want to say many versions, but, like, many stabs taken at their voice. And ultimately, I guess the characters in the voice land somewhere in between the actors that you cast who are amazing and great to work with on set and where you start. And I remember a version where they were sort of. They only communicated in whispers to one another, and everybody kind of had to like, lean in a little bit. Like, what did he say? What did they say? They're like little Snickers.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I've been with that person on set before, and it's really hard to communicate.

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

Yeah, like, very art housey, pretentious versions.

[Maggie Bowles]

They kind of ended up pretty art house pretentious, right?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, Somewhere.

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

Like, a beautiful mix of, like, casting and wardrobe and ridiculous character ideas. But they were just. They were so much fun. And I feel like we shot a lot of their stuff, and what made it in is great, but I also feel like there are jokes out there, too, that get cut for time or whatnot that are just so funny. I could do a whole spin off just following their grad school student films.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, right.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That sounds good. I'd watch it.

[Maggie Bowles]

I would love to see those.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I present to you the brothers.

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

I'm sorry, you're brothers?

[Maggie Bowles]

We're sisters.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, I thought I heard brothers.

[John Hoffman]

We're the brothers sisters.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Trina and Tawny, brothers and their identical

[Maggie Bowles]

twins, which is so neat. There's a lot in this first episode. Right. Like, it's a. It's a meaty premiere, and it's also in so many different locations. I mean, like, I was trying to list all of the different locations that they have scenes in and that they're, like, all over the place. Can you tell us about piecing all of those different things together and making that work?

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

I was lucky enough to be involved on the location scouting for the episode, the Los Angeles locations scouting, because we were still in the room in LA when we were prepping for the first block, episodes one and two. So I got to sort of sneak away from the room and go with John in a van and drive around Los Angeles and check out different locations. So those locations ranged from the. The places that we were considering for the Sunset Swan, which is the apartment, the story department building where Szazz lives. The locations for the big Hollywood party where they. Where the trio meets their doppelganger trio. So that range from all sorts of crazy mega mansions in the Hollywood Hills, and, like, how many infinity pools, you know, can you see in a day? Like, I remember distinctly, we. We were scouting the mansion that we ultimately ended up using. And I was, like, looking over the balcony down onto a property that was, like, down the hill. And that property had a swimming pool that was not an infinity pool. And I. I, like, had a moment where I was like, wow, how close? Like, the scouting had changed me. I was. It looked like, who would put that in? I was like, I need to get out of this world. This is not where I'm from. But it was just fun to see. To, like, see. To experience that for the first time. Drive around LA and try and capture different little sections of the city that make it feel. That pay homage to different parts of Hollywood and different parts of Los Angeles.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So I think the episode opens up with the Sergio Leone film, and then we see it again later in the

[Maggie Bowles]

Once Upon a Time in the West.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, we see it later in the episode. Can you explain the connection? How did it come about?

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

It came out of the brilliant mind of John Hoffman. And I know that you guys talked to him. I wonder if you asked him about it.

[Maggie Bowles]

We forgot. That's why we were asking you.

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

Well, he is, like, in the next room. I could run over there and go, no. I think that we were intrigued by the notion of, like, cinematic storytelling at its most fundamental. You know, like, to tell a story with images without words, and just to show what you can do with images, which is so much of what the season is about, the moving image and how much we love movies, we love Hollywood culture, and what a big role it plays in the lives of the characters in this season. And in general, like Charles Hayden Savage, you know, in general, in his life, to him being an actor, Marty's character being a director.

[Ryan Tillotson]

When we were kind of thinking of questions, we started, like, looking into the plot of the movie and, like, all the characters, and we're like, there's. There must be.

[Maggie Bowles]

We may have over. We may have overthrow.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I just guarantee the fans of this show will do the same.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, they're gonna look into Easter eggs inside of Once Upon a Time in the West. The killer is.

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

And it might accidentally line up. Who knows?

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

It's a ploy, like an elaborate ploy to get people to watch TCM a little bit more.

[Maggie Bowles]

So let's take it back to the beginning of the episode, because we kind of pick up where we left off in last season. They're, like, ending the last podcast episode, and we as viewers know that Szaz has been shot, but the trio doesn't know yet. Can you tell us about the process of maybe making the decision that Sass's body has been moved? I don't know if that happened after the. After the season ended or before. And that whole, like, building the tension of that opening scene.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, it was a shock to me. I was expecting for them to find the body.

[Maggie Bowles]

I was expecting her there.

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

Good question. I think that on the one hand, I know I felt this way. I can't speak for everybody. But I felt that the trio finding Saz's body was going to be too emotionally shattering for Charles. That tonally, it would be hard to, I think, manage that sort of scene. I think when you watch episode two, you'll see that the way in which Charles handles the ashes of Szazz after finding her in the incinerator is just. I feel like we wanted to give Steve Martin the opportunity to use his physical comedy genius in a way that was like, both funny and mournful. And I don't think would have been possible if he happened upon her body in the flesh, which played into the decision. But I also just think it's a great twist and it's a great question. It gives, I think it gave us as. As writers and gives the audience a lot of questions to ask and that's. That gives you episodes to play with. And so it was a character and emotional based decision as much as a mystery decision, I think.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, I can see that. And you get to do a lot of really fun things with the tension of the trio entering the apartment and expecting them to find her and not.

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

Yeah, and you get the bullet hole. Like, you get to play with the. The dramatic irony of the bullet hole, which I think they used this. But when we were editing the episode, John and I were working with the editor and toying with the different versions of the whistling noise. And I was sort of like, I like, you know, I think this works, but I always pictured it sounding a little bit more like. And they're like, what? What? I was like, you know, like, kind of like. And they're like, hold on. Like, could you record yourself doing that? And to me. And I was like, yeah, I guess. And so I did that.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Is it your voice?

[Joshua Allen Griffith]

It's my. It's my mouth making that noise. And I was like. I thought that we had, like, progressed beyond this technology. I was simultaneously proud and a little let down and, like demystified by it. But yeah, that's me.

[Maggie Bowles]

Movie magic.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, my gosh. What a great. What a great story.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah, absolutely. But if someone had to get murdered, let's all say who we hope it would be.

[Maggie Bowles]

And that's important.

[John Hoffman]

Oh, no, no, it's fine.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Count of three. One, two.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oliver listeners, what do you think? Did that sound like Joshua Alan Griffith's mouth?

[Ryan Tillotson]

I think it did. It sounds pretty convincing.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Okay. Well, after the break, we catch up again with John Hoffman to talk a little bit more about what it was like building the tension around SZ's missing body. And the origin story of the brother's sister.

[Ryan Tillotson]

In this episode, we meet the brothers sisters.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I have theories as to the name, but can you tell me the inspiration? Who are, who are the brothers sisters?

[John Hoffman]

I have a. First of all, I have a weakness for a really dumb joke. So that. And. And it wasn't a dumb joke. I will not say it was a dumb joke because I'll never forget Pete Swanson in the writers room pitching it and kind of hiding his head. And I said, what? What did you just say? He said, what if their last name is the brothers, but they're known as the brothers sisters? And I was like, okay, I'm in love with it. So.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Because there's so many famous bro directing teams, you know.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

Yes. That's. That was the play on it that I loved it for. I thought the Duffer brothers. I thought, you know, any. Any of the brothers pairings that have produced or directed movies together. The Coen brothers, all of that.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Exactly.

[John Hoffman]

And I thought, it's always brothers. I don't know that there's ever been sisters. So if it's the sisters, let's call them brothers. Which I thought was sort of a thumb in the eye that way.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love that. That's great. That's what I wanted.

[Maggie Bowles]

And oh, my God, another huge one. Episode one we see Scott Bakula.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Hey, Saz. Oh, Bakula. Hey, Charles.

[John Hoffman]

Congratulations. Always nice to see another white haired, white guy beat the odds.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, thanks.

[John Hoffman]

I mean, kind of surprises, right?

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, I know.

[John Hoffman]

Surprises that have been teed up.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, totally. True, true, true.

[John Hoffman]

Did you get faked out?

[Maggie Bowles]

I mean, I knew it wasn't sass because I knew she was dead, you know, but I was like, who is it going to be? And I was not expecting Scott Bakula. So that was really fun.

[John Hoffman]

He was so great. I love him so much. And I worked with him on a show I did for HBO called Looking. And so I. He had heard his name being bandied about in the show for three seasons and, you know, was like, I don't understand what's happening. Why am I being brought up? He said, I just know. I know the guy who does that show I worked with before, and. And I don't know if he even thought, like, was I making fun? I'm like, no, I love you. That's what. We keep using your name because everybody loves Scott Pakula. So he was really great in Being Game to Come. He was doing a play in New York and just came by and gave us this lovely moment.

[Maggie Bowles]

Nice.

[John Hoffman]

It was really Great. That was fantastic. And I'm wondering. I'm curious to know the order of how things happen in the first episode. And landing the idea that that body isn't in the kitchen.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That was very fun because there's constant. Like. I was like, when are they gonna see this body? Like, it's gotta be there. I did not.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Think it was going to be missing.

[John Hoffman]

I know that was a fun sort of thing to play with. And then the phone message coming in and like creating a sense of foreboding with the audience that they didn't have. And how long could we hold that? But if we kept tethering it, you know, in ways that were odd clues and that whistle through the window and all of that. There were things running through that kept. It was a balancing act for that first episode, particularly within the writing to. To have the fun of Hollywood being introduced and all of that, but to keep alive this mystery story and. Wait a minute. That there's something wrong.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[John Hoffman]

And Charles carries a lot of it. And then the other two slowly are starting to feel it. And I hope. I love the build of that. And it was thrilling to sort of have the fun of that first episode, of all of the stuff, all of the new locations and all the places we were going and the new information about a movie and everything else and doing all that. We get to do all these things, but, like, to be able to sort of build a back and forth between the great sort of Sergio Leone classic of Once Upon a Time in the west and what they're discovering. And it's actually sort of gutting what happens at the end. Obviously.

[Maggie Bowles]

What are you most excited about for once the season premieres and people start watching it and talking about it, like, what is it that you. What is it that you most look forward to now that you've done this for now four seasons.

[John Hoffman]

I mean, in some ways this season, you know, even though we're. We have the elements that become a part of the fabric of the show, you know, the Hollywood movie sort of world. But slowly coming in and coming to New York and like making its way as a presence but not overtaking it and. And keeping. I hope that people really like that. We're also just back to a mystery based story that's emotionally connected to the trio in a way that, you know, feels big and right for us in that way. I really like that part of it. And the trio working together a lot throughout the season and across the season is always a good thing. I mean, that chemistry and that alchemy that they found together. And as you guys were saying, it's sort of the growth of them, you know, just makes you want to hang with them more and more. It feels to me. And, and then I think, I think the other thing is sort of, I'm really proud of everybody on the show that sort of is unafraid to dream big and go a little bigger and keep it within the. Within the sort of tone and nature of what the show has always wanted to be, but stretch it in ways that feel like, oh my God, this is quite a ride for a television show. And it feels that way maybe more than ever in this season to me, certainly by the nature of who's in it. But also, you know, thematically and I don't know, it felt like a good moment to sort of step back and look at a podcast that if they had solved as many murders as this podcast had done, we weren't pushing it too fast and far. It felt to me very like a modern situation that they would find themselves in now, having Hollywood come a calling.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Thank you so much for listening. Next week we'll talk all about episode two. We'll hear from writer Kristen Newman and some of the brand new members of the cast.

[Maggie Bowles]

Also, after this week, we will be releasing two episodes every week. So get excited and hold on to your butts. Yeah, hold on to your butts. Please send your thoughts and theories to [e-mail] we love hearing your thoughts and

[Ryan Tillotson]

theories and take a minute to subscribe Rate Follow Review if you like the show.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, it's super helpful.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, before we go, we have teamed up with the moderators of the Only Murders subreddit and they were so kind enough to put together a list of some of the best discussions and theories leading up to this episode. Here is one of the moderators, Hannah.

[Hannah]

Hi Maggie. Hi Ryan. So pleased to see you both back hosting the pod this season. I'm one of the moderators for the Only Murders in the building subreddit r OnlyMurders, Hulu and Today I've got a little refresher on the sub's theories and hopes for season four. Our members have missed the show so, so much and everyone is really happy to see it back on our screens so soon after last year's strikes and everything. So huge props to the cast, crew, writers, everyone for their hard work. Of course, the main question everyone has for now is was Saz the intended victim or was the murderer really aiming for Charles? Or maybe it was neither of them. Songmom Forever says Watching season one, I noticed Theo sees the trio in Charles apartment through his binoculars. Any chance the shooter was in the daimas apartment? Then we have Navel gazing with a really fun theory about someone who's often mentioned on the show. They say a lot of people are joking about Scott Bakula being the killer, but what if he was the intended victim? I was rewatching the very first episode and in it Oliver confuses Charles with Scott Bakula. So I think Charles, Saz and Scott were all running around the building that night looking the same. Some people also think we may have another murderous duo on our hands like we did last season. Distinct's presence 80 suggests Saz was killed by two people, a woman and a man. We also have many people wondering if we may see Jan somehow being involved with this season's mystery, as she's obviously dated both Charles and Saz and we know she can be quite the psychopath. Another known ex of both Charles and Saz is Cookie, who was briefly mentioned in season one. Maybe we'll meet her this season and we'll find out a little bit more about Saz's past through her unicorn best friend says I think Saz got tangled up in something nefarious either through Jan or through work. And finally we've got a beautiful yet tragic theory brought to us by scaryseason. Maybe Saz knew that Charles was in danger for some reason and took the bullet for him one last time. Now getting away from the mystery a little bit in terms of what people hope to see this season. Saz has been a fan favourite since a very first episode in season one, so our members are really excited to learn more about her and her backstory this season. I think it'll be very interesting. People are also very happy to see Davine Joy Randolph, AKA Detective Williams, another fan favorite, back this season after her very successful year last year with the Holdovers. And obviously I had to mention it. Everyone is so happy that the iconic Meryl Streep has decided to come back for another season, because who doesn't love a bit of Meryl? Now, regarding the plot, our members were initially a little bit skeptical about our trio potentially leaving the Arconia for LA this season, but the trailers have kind of turned that around and everyone now is mostly excited and intrigued to see what this new element brings. And finally, if anyone was wondering, yes, which of the Pickwick triplets did it is still stuck in everyone's heads. And to paraphrase Steve Martin, here's to a great season four. We are looking forward to more interesting theories, great mystery, and fun discussions with everyone.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Only Murders in the Building podcast is a production of Straw Hut Media, hosted and produced by Ryan Tillotson and Maggie Bowles.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's Me.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Associate producer is Stephen Markley, original music by Kyle Merritt, and Only Murders theme music by Siddhartha Khosla.

[Maggie Bowles]

Big, big, big, big, big. Thanks to John Hoffman and the entire Hulu team for their help on making this show possible.

[John Hoffman]

Oh my God. The end. People really liked you.

[Maggie Bowles]

They didn't hate us. And that was.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That was the key.

[Maggie Bowles]

All we really needed.

[John Hoffman]

I know the feeling.

[Maggie Bowles]

We have a very low, low bar.

[John Hoffman]

I'm right there with you. Truthfully, that's my bar. Always.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Just don't hate me.