Ryan Tillotson (2:40)

So how early on in the process did you find out that you were the killer?

Jin Ha (2:46)

It was not until I flew out to LA to shoot, so I had. I had prepped questions about Marshall. I was like, oh, he's a playwright. Great. I have playwright friends. I have screenwriter friends. I'm going to talk to them. I'm going to get. I'm going to buy these writing books. I'm going to really get into character for what a Hollywood screenwriter's life would be like, who's just trying to get a project picked up. And I had a meeting scheduled with John Hoffman, I think a day or two before our first day of shooting in la. It was like the big mansion scene in the Hollywood Hills. And I had a meeting thinking, like, oh, this will be a good way for me to ask about Marshall's overall arc. What kind of tone or style or energy do we want him to inhabit within this extraordinarily colorful cast? We maybe had a little bit of small talk. I don't even remember all of it, but I remember sitting down in one of his offices out there, and he sat down and then Ben Smith and Kristin Newman happened to be walking by or something, and John was like, oh, come on in. And either Ben or Kristen looked at John and was like, have you told him yet? I was like, in my mind, just thinking the first thing, I was like, oh, it's been a good run. Like, they've. They found somebody else. And you know what? I'm happy to have been here. And rejection.

Ryan Tillotson (4:11)

You're just. Actors are just ready for rejection.

Jin Ha (4:15)

There are the craziest stories out there that exist stranger than fiction. So I was like, that's possible.

Maggie Bowles (4:19)

Yeah.

Jin Ha (4:20)

Or obviously, like, whatever else it might be. I was like, there's no. No inkling in my mind that I was like, this is where this is going. Because obviously in the audition, there was nothing mentioned at all. It was just like, oh, this nervous guy who really loves nine to Five. Like, that's his favorite movie. And that was in, like, a breakdown somewhere. And. Yeah, and then he sat down and then he. I don't even remember the word he. I might. You think he might have said something like, just point blank, like, so you're the killer. And it, you know, like, white void in my mind, suddenly my heart is racing. And I think I said something like, oh, well, all of the questions I prepared don't matter anymore. And then it was just, you know, obviously, like the next 30 minutes to 45 minutes just being, like, receiving information that I think in my. My notebook that I had brought some random things I had scribbled was like, marshall is not my name. And, like, without fully. Because they were still writing the scripts, I think, 7, 8, 9, 10, as we were shooting. And I just got, like, large brushstrokes of the idea, but I think even they were still hashing out, like, the details of how the murder happened and exactly, you know, like, what are all the elements? And it was shocking, to say the least. And then, obviously, from then on, like, holy shit. What an unbelievable journey. You know, on top of that, did you know, I didn't know this, that some folks on set, including Selina, don't want to know.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (5:58)

Really?

Ryan Tillotson (5:59)

We didn't know about Selina.

Jin Ha (6:01)

Yeah, Selina, apparently, even though she's an ep, as much as she can, as long. For as long as she can, she likes to not know. And until she reads a script that comes out and then it reveals it. But I remember hearing from. Maybe it was from her assistant Ally, mentioning that, like, she had read whichever script sort of comes up, and she was like, I still. Or like, right before maybe episode eight or something, she's like, I'm still not sure, like, who it is. And everybody around her is like, yeah, yeah, totally. So in that way, I was. I was really. It was kind of beautiful. It was a beautiful symbiote. Not symbiosis, but, like, it worked out well that even on set, I had to be careful in speaking to people or I didn't want to reveal too much. Actually, you know what? It was Michael, too. Michael Seale. Creighton also was trying not to know for as long as possible because the first thing I said when I met him, I. You know, we had met once long ago in, like, a little New York theater workshop presentation, but the first time we. We saw each other on set, he was like, don't tell me anything. He's like, just so you know, I don't want to know anything. And I was like, oh, okay. Nice to see you. And so it was. It kind of worked out beautifully that I had to maintain that secret on set, while I'm also maintaining that secret at home because my character had to do that anyway, 24 7. So it was. Was. It was nice. It was a nice coincidence.

Ryan Tillotson (7:34)

It helped. It helped the performance, maybe.

Jin Ha (7:37)

One would hope. Yeah.

Maggie Bowles (7:38)

Who knows?

Jin Ha (7:38)

But one would hope it helped my mentals, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Maggie Bowles (7:42)

Of course he does. He's got, like, layers and layers of Secrets.

Jin Ha (7:46)

Also my. You. My YouTube algorithm is fucked.

Maggie Bowles (7:49)

Oh, yeah.

Ryan Tillotson (7:52)

Well, first you look up all this writing stuff, I'm sure, and then you start looking into the stunt world. I don't know.

Jin Ha (7:58)

Yes, stunt world. A lot of stunt stuff, like interviews of stunt people. I was actually listening to this incredible stunt podcast.

Maggie Bowles (8:06)

Is it the Daniel Radcliffe one?

Jin Ha (8:09)

Yes, it's. I first saw the documentary the Boy who Lives Cunning. Yes,

Ryan Tillotson (8:16)

that's it.

Jin Ha (8:17)

Cunning Stunts.

Maggie Bowles (8:17)

This is that podcast that writer Madeline George told us about back in episode four, Cunning Stunts, hosted by David Holmes. David Holmes was Daniel Radcliffe's stunt double in the Harry Potter movies until he was seriously injured while filming.

Jin Ha (8:30)

Yes, it's a brilliant podcast. And he gets incredible stunt people on there. And yeah, that. That was a huge. That was a huge shoe in for me, or like shoehorn for me to get in there. And then on top of that, like, gun stuff on YouTube.

Ryan Tillotson (8:48)

Right. Well, you looked good holding a gu.

Maggie Bowles (8:50)

Yeah, well, let's. Let's talk about that scene in the finale, which is like, so good. There's like parkour, you know, there's like gun stuff. There's Eva Longoria's 19 in 1 multi tool.

Ryan Tillotson (9:04)

You do quite a few accents as well, which are very impressive.

Jin Ha (9:08)

They kept that in.

Patrick Howe (9:09)

Okay.

Jin Ha (9:09)

I wasn't sure if they would keep that in. I mean, it was. It was a. It was a joy and a thing. I mean, everything that you just mentioned is like five different things that I. I've always wanted to do specifically on screen. And I never thought that this one role would allow me to do all of those things and in such a fabulously exciting way. It was really fun. All of those elements that you just described almost had, like, nothing to do with each other. It just happened to be in the needs and the goals that we were trying to achieve with that final big scene for Marshall, for Rex. But all of it was like, as TV world is like kind of last minute, you know what I mean? Like, I had one session with the gun expert who brought in the specific rifles that can unscrew and screw. And there was like, you know, like 10, 15 minutes before around to be like, hey, this is how it works. Like, let's just try it out a couple of times. But that's the beautiful thrill of, you know, TV work especially is it's kind of demands an instant expert mindset. It's something I got in grad school from a brilliant Professor Jim Calder of mine about, like, no matter what the assumption is, just know exactly what you're just pretend, you know exactly what you're doing, and then go on from there, skip over all the steps where it's like, I've never done this before. I've ever had to screw a rifle together. And then, like, you know, I'm saying, like, sure, but I've watched a bunch of YouTube videos. I have been to the range a couple of times.

Maggie Bowles (10:51)

Have you? Okay.

Ryan Tillotson (10:52)

I mean, this is how Rex and Marshall did it, too. So until you make it.

Maggie Bowles (10:55)

Right.

Jin Ha (10:56)

Truly, I mean. That's right.

Ryan Tillotson (10:58)

That's right.

Jin Ha (10:58)

I was just so into character that I was just living and breathing this philosophy. Well, actually, coincidentally, the reason I had been to the range last year, time, was because of my small role in Civil War, the film where I played a sniper in that, you know, one tiny scene. And my friend Carl Glessman and I, we. In preparation for that, we were like, oh, let's find a range in la. And. And just. And then we also had a consultation with a military expert, Raymond, who was out there and all of that. Somehow, you know, it's like Slumdog Millionaire, where it's like all of these tiny things are, like, coming in to be like, yes, this is the moment where I get to use this expertise or, like, you know, my. My research that I've done the parkour. I mean, who the hell. I just. I love parkour personally. And have I been jumping around cities all over, you know, since my teenager yelling, parkour? Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent, I've been doing that. And then to suddenly be able to seriously do parkour, I'm like, are you kidding me?

Maggie Bowles (12:01)

Yeah.

Jin Ha (12:02)

It was such a throw. Obviously, I was like, I understand that. I'm 34 now. And I'm like, I don't want to get hur. My knees and ankles are not what they used to be in my mid-20s. But we had an incredible stunt team. I mean, the stunt episode at the bar is testament to that. Like, it was phenomenal team. And swore the stunt double was incredibly helpful with, like, here's how you make it look cooler. Or like, here's how to do this safely. But it was awesome, you know, I was like. And a lot of it was collaboration of, like, hey, I think I can jump over this bed. I Obviously, in my mind, I was like, I'm not sure if I can. But I was like, I think I can. I'll try it.

Maggie Bowles (12:39)

Yeah.

Jin Ha (12:41)

Did it once or twice. And then, like, one time I didn't jump hard enough, and I, like, my foot landed and then gave out, and I kind of landed on my butt. A little bit. And everyone around me was like, oh, my God, are you okay? And people were like, hey. Like, you know, I could tell people in spaces were like, he's doing too much. Like, this is. Like, he's going to get hurt. Like, really? But then Jamie. Jamie Babbitt, our director, came up, and she was like, look, obviously, like, you know, I trust you, like, if you want to do it or not. But just so you know, it looks really cool. That's all you need.

Maggie Bowles (13:13)

That's all you need.

Patrick Howe (13:14)

Exactly.

Jin Ha (13:15)

So I was like, thank you, Jamie. That's all I need to hear. Like, I did slip. I know people are worried, but I'm actually pretty confident I can do this. And if it looks cool, that's all that matters. So then we were able to do it a bunch more times, and it was. It was. Nobody got hurt. But it was so exciting. It was so fun to. To really collaborate in that way. And the dialects. Oh, sorry. I don't know if I can curse, but the dialects were just in. That was just my own. Like, it's being silly of, like, well, he's written to try to, you know, like, classic through the door. Like, well, somebody's not here right now. You know what I mean? And I was like, okay, well, what would. What would Rex. What would Marshall think to do? And I was like, well, there are a bunch of people in this room, right? So then how about we distinguish them and continue to sell the point that it's, like, not just me holding Mabel hostage. I can't believe they kept that in there. Genuinely. I was like, there's no way. But I was like, no, I'll try it.

Ryan Tillotson (14:16)

It was hilarious.

Maggie Bowles (14:17)

It was very funny.

Ryan Tillotson (14:17)

And they were great accents.

Maggie Bowles (14:18)

Yeah, Very good accents. Very impressed.

Jin Ha (14:20)

Thank goodness. Thank goodness. That's my classically trained.

Maggie Bowles (14:24)

Yeah, right.

Patrick Howe (14:25)

Hello.

Jin Ha (14:25)

It's friendly neighbors Rudy and Vince. We want to borrow some sugar.

John Hoffman (14:29)

You know, like friendly neighbors do.

Jane Lynch (14:33)

Mabel's not here right now.

Jin Ha (14:35)

Maybe I want to come back later. We're making sugar chicken, and it's. We've never done it before, and we're trying to figure out anything that might work. Do you have any corn on the

Jane Lynch (14:44)

cob or off the cob?

Maggie Bowles (14:46)

How about.

Ryan Tillotson (14:47)

What are those little pickles? What are they?

Jin Ha (14:48)

They gherkins or corvichons?

Ryan Tillotson (14:50)

Cornichons.

John Hoffman (14:51)

Cornichons.

Jin Ha (14:51)

Cornichons. Lads, we're kind of busy right now. Well, it's whatever you have. It's really what we're looking for.

Ryan Tillotson (15:09)

After the break, Jane Lynch's favorite details in Saz's apartment and the artistry that went into Marshall's fake beard.

Maggie Bowles (15:24)

Welcome back. One thing that was very exciting for me to see this episode was Saz inside of her apartment. I don't know why. I guess maybe just because we had glimpsed it early in the season, but we hadn't seen her actually in it. And that felt really special. This is Patrick Howe, production designer.

Patrick Howe (15:41)

The interesting challenge was that while we know Saz well in terms of a character that's been consistently on in all four seasons or all three seasons up to this point is we've never seen her at home. We've only seen her at the arconia or locations. So the only bit of information you have about Szasz is just her personality. She reflects in all of her rather witty dialogue to Charles. So I remembered that John wanted to reflect her personality, but also have quite a bit of air of mystery about it. So I was able to come up with a sort of olive green color to paint the walls. And. And it broke my heart to sort of forfeit opportunities for wallpaper. I worked them in. In a few places of some wallpaper patterns where it was plausible within that style of apartment. But the main, like, living room that you were going to see was going to be. But so I was able to create a palette that was kind of dark in color, in value. So we got that going. And then. And then things about her personality

Jin Ha (16:53)

we

Patrick Howe (16:53)

were reflecting in the kind of decor. I mean, John had written a specific thing about displaying pictures of her broken bones. And so we circled around about the ways to do that. And like, is this the actual X rays? Is it a print of an X ray? Is it a photo? You know, so we finally landed on prints of X rays is fine. And then, like, we got sort of fancier with it. And it was. And I think I met with Kyle a little bit, our dp and of course, he would be drawn more to sort of the light box that, you know. So we wound up with that displaying them on an X ray box. So we bought a vintage X ray, Mila found an vintage X ray box, and. And then that became the signature piece of the room.

Ryan Tillotson (17:40)

Is there any special secret thing hidden in Szaz's apartment that, you know, we just didn't see?

Patrick Howe (17:46)

Probably several dozen things that there was never time to see. But I wanted to make a tribute to the hats that we always see her and Charles in. So had done a riff on Tybalt that had done some famous series. Some were of cakes, Cakes on little pedestals. So I Just riffed on that of like hats on hat stands. And so there's little paintings of that. And we came up with a caricature of Szasz and Charles together that you know, and one of our scenic artists drew that.

Maggie Bowles (18:19)

Is that the one that Jane lynch told us about? She. When we spoke to Jane lynch, she said that John had gifted her a line drawing of Szaz and Charles together.

Jane Lynch (18:30)

I have it. I have it.

Ryan Tillotson (18:32)

Oh, let's see it.

Jane Lynch (18:34)

I should have put it up. I usually have it up.

Maggie Bowles (18:37)

Wow, that's great.

Ryan Tillotson (18:40)

I love it.

Maggie Bowles (18:41)

That's amazing. I love it.

Jane Lynch (18:42)

Yeah. John Gaines.

Maggie Bowles (18:44)

I love it.

Ryan Tillotson (18:45)

Oh, it's so good.

Maggie Bowles (18:46)

I love it so much. That's fantastic.

Patrick Howe (18:50)

So that's where that. So that's where that went.

Jin Ha (18:56)

Yeah.

Ryan Tillotson (18:56)

It's in the hands of Jane Lynch.

Patrick Howe (18:58)

I guess it can stop looking for that now in our inventory. In our inventory. Yeah. Both she and Steve Martin really liked that.

Jin Ha (19:07)

Yeah.

Patrick Howe (19:07)

So that would be that one. It's this. It's really great.

Maggie Bowles (19:10)

That's so cool.

Patrick Howe (19:11)

The character of them.

Jin Ha (19:12)

So we tried to film it up, fill it up with a lot of

Patrick Howe (19:16)

stunt person related things and motifs that, you know, maybe anyone living in Los Angeles decor wise, might gravitate towards certain styles and that stuff.

Maggie Bowles (19:27)

And is there anything else from that apartment that you remember seeing and thinking like this is some great detail or like. I love this information.

Jane Lynch (19:37)

Yeah. I love the. The X ray lights.

Jin Ha (19:40)

Yeah.

Maggie Bowles (19:40)

Yes.

Jane Lynch (19:41)

You turn. It's a. You know, it's like a light fixture of the room and these fluorescent lights go up showing her X rays of all of her injuries and her artificial joints that she had put in from Bulgaria.

Maggie Bowles (19:55)

Top of the line.

Jane Lynch (19:56)

So she had that up there. Yeah, yeah. Lots of horses and cowboy stuff and. And you guys are from la, you'll appreciate this. It looks very much like one of those apartments that are. They're kind of big and they're in courtyard buildings, you know, we have in la. Some of them are small, but the ones on the. The first floor are always. Yeah, the first level are always kind of big and they have the steps up to the dining room and it's kind of the Spanish architecture and boy, did they. And it's probably in Hollywood somewhere and totally, you know, like around Wilcox or. Wilcox and Fountain or something.

Maggie Bowles (20:34)

Yeah. So iconic.

Ryan Tillotson (20:35)

Oh, I've seen those apartments.

Maggie Bowles (20:37)

Yeah, but. But the actual apartment was on the soundstage, right? Like the indoor. Yeah. Okay.

Straw Hut Media Announcer (20:42)

Okay, cool.

Jane Lynch (20:42)

Yeah, yeah. But the exterior they shot in la. Yeah. And they. It was an apartment that we. Those of Us in LA recognize and go, oh, I know exactly where, where they are.

Maggie Bowles (20:51)

Right, exactly.

Jane Lynch (20:51)

She's probably had it since 1980.

Maggie Bowles (20:53)

You know, she's still paying $65 a month or something like that.

Jane Lynch (20:57)

It's probably rent controlled. Yeah, yeah. But the neighborhood is probably a little bit sketchy now.

Ryan Tillotson (21:03)

Yeah, probably. And so then we have to talk about your last scene with Charles, which is also just like was, as John called it, the kicker at the end. And it was, it's like, you know, get a little teary eyed in that scene when he asks you to move to the writer's chair.

Jin Ha (21:22)

Sorry you're missing all this.

Jane Lynch (21:24)

Yeah, would have been nice.

Patrick Howe (21:29)

I think this is your chair.

Jane Lynch (21:32)

Well, thank you, my friend. Actually, I miss that guy.

Jin Ha (21:44)

You did good. I know this is just me telling

John Hoffman (21:48)

myself I did good, but I'll take the compliment.

Jane Lynch (21:54)

Like at this point, he knows everything she's done for him and he now has done, you know, lot for her and her legacy. And it's. Yeah, it's kind of beautiful. And also at that moment too, you get this sense that it's the last scene between the two of them, you know, that she's gonna move on to the great trampoline park in the sky and that he's gonna carry on without her. I love in the beginning of the, of the season where he. We're sitting on the edge of the bed and he says, you are my very best friend. How am I going to get along without you? How am I going to live without you? So that kind of echoed that. But I love that when I sat in that chair, Szasz was not uncomfortable, was not very comfortable in that chair. She wanted to sit on her apple box.

Ryan Tillotson (22:42)

Yeah, that's where she's used to sitting.

Jin Ha (22:44)

Yeah.

Maggie Bowles (22:45)

Oh, and the little, and the little hat cat.

Jane Lynch (22:47)

Dolphin too.

Maggie Bowles (22:49)

And also there's one more scene that I think is really special in this episode, which is when Saz gets shot and she's. With her dying breath, she's like, my number one's gonna get you. You know what I mean?

Jin Ha (23:06)

I'm sorry it had to end this way. I just, I need this. Where's the script? The one with your name on it? He's gonna get you.

Jane Lynch (23:20)

Who, who will I number

Maggie Bowles (23:30)

one.

Jane Lynch (23:34)

Tap in?

Maggie Bowles (23:35)

Yeah, tap in. I just think that's. That's so special. How was it to die on camera? How often do you get. How often do you get to die on camera?

Jane Lynch (23:44)

I think I died in a movie called Collateral damage, like in 1999.

Maggie Bowles (23:48)

I remember collateral Damage. Yeah.

Jane Lynch (23:52)

I had my neck broken in the bathroom.

Maggie Bowles (23:54)

Oh, God.

Jane Lynch (23:55)

By a really little woman, too. I don't know how she did it, but it was. It was. Yeah, it was. You know, it was fun. I got to use my imagination. What would it feel like to have, you know, the blood going down your throat, that kind of stuff? Yeah, it was fun.

Ryan Tillotson (24:13)

I would be nervous about, like, I feel like that's often the scenes that are made fun of, you know, like, oh, you overperform it or something, you know. Yeah, you overdo it. Yeah, that would be.

Jane Lynch (24:23)

That's true. But we're in a world of. We're in a kind of a world of weird. So anything you do can be looked at as genius, even if it's weird.

Maggie Bowles (24:37)

Yeah. I feel like on Only Murder, specifically, like, everything is, like, a little bit amplified. Like, there's. If there's a serious moment, it's always going to come with some comedy.

Jane Lynch (24:47)

Right.

Maggie Bowles (24:47)

Looking back, now that we've seen, like, how the. How Sassa's story ends, how do you. How do you feel about the show looking back on. On it as a whole?

Jane Lynch (24:57)

Oh, well, I. I feel, you know, like I'm. I'm really blessed and really lucky to be a part of it. It's. It's a. A really unique show for all those reasons you just said. It's. It's touching and then it's funny and. And all of this has to do with John Hoffman and Steve Martin and Martin Short and Selena, that kind of group there. They. They figured out this dynamic and. And I'll bet it was probably kind of there to begin with, you know, but they really leaned into it, and John and the writers really leaned into it. And so it's. Each season is so inventive, but they've done something that in. That I think is so important in television that people trying to be outside the box and make things crazy never do. But there is a. If it's going to be television, the familiarity with places. And when I was studying theater, they called it unity of place. So you've got. Charles's apartment is basically kind of the constant. And we. It's. It's beautiful to be in. It reflects him so well. Anything can be done there. The Murder board is there. They meet there. I was killed there. It's kind of the place. It's kind of like the bar at Cheers. It's, you know, Monica and Rachel's apartment and friends. It's kind of an important thing because it. It's the place that you keep going back to. Like the office. In the office. And even though that's basically where everything happened, but they. They really understand that that apartment is a character in. In the show as well as the building and where it is in New York. But for the most part, it's. It says everything for this world, that apartment. And we like going back to familiar places where everybody knows your name, that kind of a thing.

Maggie Bowles (26:48)

Right? Yeah, absolutely. And we even get, like, the uncanny second Charles's apartment this season. You know, the.

Jane Lynch (26:54)

Oh, right, exactly.

Ryan Tillotson (26:55)

Charles.

Jane Lynch (26:56)

The set. Yes, The. The re. The reimagination for, you know, a movie of something that exists on television. It's so great.

Maggie Bowles (27:04)

Yeah. It's so funny.

Jane Lynch (27:06)

Yeah. It was a joy to be a part of this group. And, you know, I. John Hoffman is one of the greatest guys. I mean, he's. He's so talented, and he's so kind and so nice, and so Steve and. And Marty. And so, you know, that's the head of this. This television's fish. And it's. You know, it stinks from the head down. It smells good from the head down. So, yeah, it's. It was a joy to be a part of it. And so many people, you know, have been on it and continue to be on it. I mean, this season is just. Just a cavalcade of some. Some of the funniest, most unique people. So, yeah, it's great. I'm glad to be a part of it.

Maggie Bowles (27:45)

Yeah.

Ryan Tillotson (27:46)

Well, you're such a huge part of it, so.

Maggie Bowles (27:48)

Yeah.

Jin Ha (27:53)

You know, I appreciate this movie in a whole different way now. I mean, Szaz wrote this.

Maggie Bowles (28:00)

Oh, Charles, do you have any. Any favorite moments from the whole season, favorite memories or anything like that?

Jin Ha (28:08)

Oh, boy. I don't think it's so hard to pinpoint a favorite.

Ryan Tillotson (28:13)

This is Jin Ha again.

Jin Ha (28:15)

It was just an unbelievable gathering of heroes and stars and brilliant minds, and I felt overwhelmed to suddenly find myself there, as in, like, many times I have throughout my jobs, and really lucky to be there. I feel really, really grateful to have gotten the chance to play this fun, exciting role and with such incredible people.

Ryan Tillotson (28:48)

Was it hard wearing that beard?

Jin Ha (28:50)

Oh, yeah.

Jane Lynch (28:51)

We didn't talk about the beard.

Maggie Bowles (28:52)

Yeah, you did have some really great costuming.

Jin Ha (28:54)

Why, thank you so much. You know, my beard was real for most of the. It.

Maggie Bowles (28:58)

Okay.

Jin Ha (28:59)

Yeah. Yeah. Because I had. Funnily enough, they had, you know, that character had the fake beard, I guess, from the beginning, from its conception. And then, coincidentally, it's true. A lot of East Asian men can't grow full beards for Whatever reason, but I can. So it kind of worked out. I showed up. Yeah. With a beard, and I was like, okay, like, this works. I remember, like, maybe I mentioned this somewhere else, but, like, Marty came up to me and was first date, and he was like, is this a fake beard? And I was like, no, no, this. This is real. This is my beard. And it was just for that episode where we had to see it falling apart, that it was maneuvering and then. Actually, no. Kudos to Ariel, the makeup designer. Towards the later half where we needed to jump back and forth between Rex and Marshall. Yeah, she. I've never seen this technique before. I know it exists elsewhere, but she gets hairs, you know, mixed with human hair or whatever, other types of hair that's good for beards, and then applies, like, glue on my face and then would, like, sees a God building a beard on someone's face. She's, like, slowly with, like, the. The follicles face. You know, the heads of the follicles.

Maggie Bowles (30:13)

Holy cow.

Jin Ha (30:14)

Touching my face to, like, literally touch on and build a beard on my face, and then she, like, shaves it into the shape. So we had to do that a couple of times towards the latter episodes.

Ryan Tillotson (30:24)

And is that a long process?

Jin Ha (30:26)

Yeah, like, maybe an hour and a half, two hours.

Maggie Bowles (30:28)

Holy cow.

Jin Ha (30:29)

It usually probably would take longer, but she's so good at it. But that was incredible because the beard functions and felt like a beard, so I was able to talk. All right. I totally forgot. I forgot because it was so real that I was like, oh, yeah, it was just my beard. It was not. But it moves because, like, the fake beards are like. You know, it's a. It's a straight. Like, an attachment you put on. But I couldn't really smile. Like, it was. Couldn't move my face too much, but with this fake one that Ariel made, because literally each follicle was attached by glue. I could. I could smile, I could whatever with my face without any hindrance. And, yeah, that. That was. That was also. You know, I got to do prosthetics, like, how cool this is my step towards the penguin. You know what I mean?

Maggie Bowles (31:14)

So wait, they have to remake the beard every time, or you take it off and you reapply? Wow.

Jin Ha (31:20)

No, it would be, like, top of the day, and then throughout the day, be like, oh, we need to, like, make this part a little bit denser again, or. But it was pretty incredible how well it lasted.

Maggie Bowles (31:28)

That is wild.

Jin Ha (31:30)

I had no idea either. Yeah.

Maggie Bowles (31:31)

So much. So much modern technology in this scene.

Jin Ha (31:35)

No, it's true. Yeah, it was really, really cool. Which actually, you know, what's funny is I think it's so appropriate because this whole season was about Hollywood so that we got to, like, employ all of these different techniques and uses, like how meta.

Ryan Tillotson (31:49)

Seriously, this show is always so meta.

Maggie Bowles (31:51)

Always so meta.

Jin Ha (31:52)

That's true. That's a good point. That's a good point.

Maggie Bowles (31:54)

Yeah. And I love that. I love that fact.

Ryan Tillotson (32:00)

After the break, Loretta and Oliver's wedding and a brand new murder in the building.

Patrick Howe (32:07)

Foreign.

Maggie Bowles (32:14)

Welcome back. In this episode, we have an Arconian wedding. And you might not have noticed, but there were quite a few familiar faces among the guests. We spotted none other than John Hoffman at the center officiating the wedding.

Ryan Tillotson (32:27)

We also saw Ben Smith, Alex Bigelow, Madeline George, and jj. We are sure there are even more that we missed. We asked John Hoffman and J.J. philbin to tell us about the wedding.

Maggie Bowles (32:39)

So exciting. First of all, to see a wedding in the courtyard of the Arconia. It looked beautiful. There were a lot of special cameos.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (32:48)

And how about our officiant right here?

John Hoffman (32:52)

Attendee.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (32:54)

Lighten up.

Jin Ha (32:55)

The front row.

Maggie Bowles (32:58)

Can you tell us about, like, the culmination of. Of Oliver and Loretta's love story, by the way? Also, thank you for not killing Loretta. I feel like you were. You guys were teasing it all episode long. That's very. I would have been very. This would have been a different conversation if she had been the next murderer, let me tell you.

Jane Lynch (33:17)

Oh, gosh.

Jin Ha (33:18)

I know.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (33:20)

The wedding was our. Like, we felt like this was our dream to watch those two get married. Like, it was, you know, we, we were like, what are the ramifications of this? Like, what does that mean? Like, what does. What does that mean going forward? But ultimately we were like, we just

Maggie Bowles (33:39)

want to watch them get married because

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (33:41)

they're so perfect together and so in love. And just the idea of it made us so happy. And it just felt like the. The happiest ending we could think of for the season after. You know, Charles had been, you know, mourning his friend and this. It had been like a. Like these characters had been through so much. And just to relax into this purely joyful event was. It was for us, it was just like the treat of all treats to bring all those characters together. I mean, just little things like Winnie and the stroller. Like, I was delighted to see the suns again.

John Hoffman (34:25)

That was a big deal. We needed them back. And Ryan, I mean, everybody. I mean, Jeremy Seamus, who plays Dickie, is a great New York actor and lives in New York. But Ryan Broussard was doing a TV show in Vancouver, and I just. We gotta love them both because I was like, although there's a nice lure, like, will you walk Meryl Streep down the aisle? You won't have a lot of lines, but, you know, it's a big moment. So he found his way there. And these are the little things that could go one way or the other when you're in production and sort of like, we may not get him. And I'm like, oh, that's gonna sting if we don't have both those boys on either arm. So it was brilliant that they could make it. And then I think the thing JJ's saying, which is so right, that joyful thing and all of that, but what felt really right to me is what you guys were saying, which is we knew that the audience was going to be thinking, like. And we put it in the mouth of Charles and Oliver, like, throughout the whole episode. So there is a tension to it as well. So I think I talked to a journalist a couple of days ago who had seen the finale, and she said, I watched that wedding sweating. I was like, it was beautiful. But I was also like, oh, my God, when is it gonna happen? How is she gonna die? How is she gonna die? I was like, oh, my. I'm not going to promise that we're not going to kill Meryl Streep. But I also like keeping that option open.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (35:58)

We had done in the script, there were, like, we had really gone a lot farther with that story. And I think we cut those beats for production reasons and that it was so unwieldy, the episode. We just had so many things we wanted to do. But do you remember the scene of her in the alleyway behind the Arconia putting garbage in the dumpster and going, who's that?

Maggie Bowles (36:20)

Who's that?

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (36:22)

We were really, like, we'd lost the thread, but we were just having fun with playing with the audience who, you know, at this point knows what, you know, the end of every season, what's coming. And we're all so emotionally wrapped up in Loretta and Oliver, and it just. I don't know, it was. We had fun with it. At the end of the day, I think the balance of it is just right.

John Hoffman (36:43)

You know, we did a location scout on that scene. We actually got it, like, mapped out to do that scene. And then we're like, wait a minute.

Maggie Bowles (36:50)

But this is footsteps behind her in an alleyway or something. Yeah.

John Hoffman (36:56)

Threat that. Like, oh, my God, we're gonna tee it up even further. But all you need is her not appearing at the end of that aisle and then Jackie Hoffman letting out a good scream.

Maggie Bowles (37:04)

Yeah.

John Hoffman (37:05)

Over a roach.

Ryan Tillotson (37:06)

Yeah.

John Hoffman (37:09)

Okay.

Ryan Tillotson (37:10)

Where is she?

Maggie Bowles (37:11)

She's coming.

Jin Ha (37:12)

Yeah, Any second.

Maggie Bowles (37:13)

No, no.

Ryan Tillotson (37:14)

Something has happened.

Jin Ha (37:22)

Sorry. I thought I saw roach.

Ryan Tillotson (37:25)

I still have no idea who is watching them. And we have a new murder and they feel connected.

John Hoffman (37:32)

And that is correct.

Ryan Tillotson (37:35)

And I don't know what you can tell us.

John Hoffman (37:36)

No, no. There's nice controversy in the writer's room about all this, too, which I will only intimate at. Not go further and not give anyone up. No. But this show, right from the beginning, I made a sort of perfect negotiation in my own head that from learning one season at least, of writing a murder mystery story over 10 episodes, that loose ends and things that aren't explained fully are always a part of any story you're telling. So using and collecting up those things and then putting a focus on them. And I know I've spoken about this in the press, so it got glommed onto by a lot of people who love the show and are fans and everything and are looking for things like this. Certainly the idea of SZASZ doing research for a film, going over to that west tower through her ham radio, connecting to Helga, understanding about the Dudenov conspiracy that Helga was wrapped up in and shared with SZASZ understanding what the whole Dudenoff mystery over there was, found its way into Szasz's script, as Marshall refers to as he's setting up to shoot. Says he said she had put this whole plot line in her script, and it was. He dumped it. He dumped it out of there. But he. That's how he knew about the Dudenoff department. That's how he knew about the code and everything else. Because she had laid it all out as a part of that script because there were plot holes. There were things that didn't make sense. So she was saying in her first version of the script, this is what happened. Someone put a sign up on Jan's door. Someone poisoned Winnie. Someone did so. And Helga and everyone else might have intimated that someone could have done that, may have done that, but no one. Yes, you're right. Has admitted to that yet. So that does remain a loose end at the end of season four.

Maggie Bowles (39:44)

I'm wondering if there's anything throughout the season that we didn't pick up on. Like, I know that, but we never asked about John McEnroe in episode five. And that's like a funny little cameo. Somebody pointed Out a bunch of Billy Joel in episode seven that we never asked about. Are there little Easter eggs and things like, around the season that you're like, that were your favorites or that stuck out or that people have asked you the most about?

John Hoffman (40:09)

This was the most Easter egg and extra season. I feel like everyone just jumping in to sort of dimensionalize everything, as I say, from our prop department to our writers to the opportunity to reflect in the way that our characters are doing about themselves through the doppelgangers, through the movie, someone's writing about them through all of that stuff, but also as writers, to sort of look at this world that was created and sort of like to play off of all of that. You know, I went to school on Long Island. I have a lot of relatives out there. So playing off of things like that were set up in season one, that Charles has a sister that has daughters with D names. You know, being able to like. It's all that stuff that feels like, oh, well, we. What have we set up that we could go with and. And explode? And then, you know, we. Everything. The dolls and Meryl's doll. I mean, these are all of the things I loved throughout the season. But yes, Billy Joel and that doorbell.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (41:19)

Are you kidding?

John Hoffman (41:20)

When we say these things? And you must know, it's like that. You. You put that in a script and then it becomes a whole thing of legality. And can we clear that? Can we do that? Will Billy Joel be upset? You know, all these things, and it's months before you find out whether that doorbell is going to sound like that or not.

Ryan Tillotson (41:41)

Is Billy Joel okay with it?

John Hoffman (41:43)

Yeah. I don't know what Billy Joel thinks of that.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (41:45)

I know he hasn't weighed in yet, but where is Billy Joel on this? Where's Billy Joel on this? But it is true. It's this lore that accumulates over the course of these seasons that you find yourself. We've been doing that a lot just in writing this next season, going back to scenes from seasons past and learning little things that suddenly become really useful. And maybe they didn't have that much import at the time, but it's amazing how they. They carry all this potential with them. Like, there. It's a clue in there. There could be something we could extrapolate off of that. I mean, I remember that happening. Saz had that line in season three about people. People chatting over the ham radio. Maybe it was Charles and what. How that, you know, spun into a whole thing in season four that we used over about the ham radio. And it's great. It's like there's this little like box of clues that's just sitting there waiting for you that lives in the show in a way.

John Hoffman (42:54)

It's what like this really. I'm gonna sound. So this sounds like a made up line. I really mean it.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (43:00)

You're in a safe space.

John Hoffman (43:01)

No writing a murder like what I've learned writing a murder mystery because we really. I've never really had done this and I'm not sure many in the room in our writers room had because this is a great comedy room as well. But like writing real murder mystery, now that we're heading towards a fifth season of it, you in. In season four particularly, it felt like in order to do that you have to be a much better investigator than so it was really sort of like that process is the same thing that was going on while creating all this stuff you're pulling from the clues you've given yourself in previous seasons.

Ryan Tillotson (43:41)

I get it. Makes sense.

Jin Ha (43:43)

I want to hire you to find my husband. It's urgent.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (43:47)

We're not a detective for my husband.

Ryan Tillotson (43:50)

Is Nikki caccimilio or was. If you believe the news.

Jin Ha (43:56)

I pay very well.

John Hoffman (43:58)

We only investigate murders in the building.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (44:00)

It's right there in our name.

Jin Ha (44:02)

What happened to Nikki has everything to do with this building.

Maggie Bowles (44:06)

To close out this conversation, you tee us up for the new murder, which is our beloved Lester the door guy and perhaps the trio becoming sort of private investigators for hire. What can you tell listeners for next season about. I don't know. What can you say?

Jin Ha (44:26)

That's all you?

John Hoffman (44:28)

That's all me?

Maggie Bowles (44:28)

Yeah.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (44:29)

I'm just scared to sit to say something spoilery.

Ryan Tillotson (44:34)

John's a pro.

John Hoffman (44:35)

J.J. did it. No. What can we say? Okay, so I am excited, very, very excited for season five because it's always that dance of, you know, we like to go into new territory, but we like to stay true to the show. We want to sort of use the building and its people and its lore in new ways that feel connected to New York and. And history and our trio stories. How do we progress them? And this season feels very tied into both of those things already in a way that feels very the show. And why I say that is because the show has always been classic meets modern.

Ryan Tillotson (45:29)

Right.

John Hoffman (45:30)

Two classic comedians meets the most modern of young women in New York City, which is always going back and forth between the classic and the modern. And here we have at the center of our murder mystery, a beloved doorman and a particular symbol of New York history and propriety and respect and he's been potentially very disrespected. That buttressed up against. And I cannot stop using the word buttress.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (46:00)

He loves to say buttress, and I've

John Hoffman (46:02)

said it so many times, people are going to throw a stapler at me if I ever say it one more time. But that buttressed up against this very. What is New York today and in some way for next season? What I'm really excited about is, like, we've never done before, we're looking at New York of right now in the headlines, literally, as we speak, and diving in that direction in a way that feels very exciting.

Maggie Bowles (46:35)

Well, we're very excited.

John Hoffman (46:36)

Did I do that right? Did I tease?

Ryan Tillotson (46:38)

It feels great.

Jin Ha (46:40)

That was beautifully. They're palpitating. You made them excited.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (46:43)

Now we really have to deliver.

John Hoffman (46:46)

Their hearts are so buttressed up against my chest.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (46:52)

There's maximum buttressing happening right now.

Jin Ha (46:55)

Interesting.

Maggie Bowles (46:57)

Thank you both so much for talking to us and giving us this time. We're so excited and we really, really appreciate both of you and all of your hard work.

John Hoffman (47:05)

Yeah, thank you so much. You guys are the best. You are. We love doing these. And every time, just so you know, like, when we're in to do these things, they're good, right? Like, everybody really gets excited. They handle this so well. And we love the way they've come out on the other end, too. I can't. I'm always amazed. I'm like Molly Shannon in that one. Just recently was just like, fantastic to hear.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (47:26)

Yeah.

Jin Ha (47:26)

All about you guys make it.

Ryan Tillotson (47:27)

We abruptly stopped the recording here because we're uncomfortable with compliments, but as Richard Kine would say, he likes me.

Jin Ha (47:36)

That's how I knew he likes me. He does like me. That's when it resonated.

Maggie Bowles (47:49)

All right, it's time to. To wrap up this season of Only Murders, I guess.

John Hoffman (47:53)

Wow.

Maggie Bowles (47:54)

We are going to announce the winners of the Escape Room giveaway for both LA and New York. But first, here's Hannah from Reddit with what the Reddit sphere is saying.

Ryan Tillotson (48:05)

Who killed Lester?

Straw Hut Media Announcer (48:07)

Hello, Maggie. Hey, Ryan. And hey, everyone listening. Season four gave us a wedding and a of bunch. A bunch of murders. And I can't believe it's already over. I'm gonna miss our little cozy murder show while we wait for season five. And speaking of which, you know, the members of the Only Murder subreddit already have a lot of thoughts about what could happen or what they hope will happen next season. First, we have Schleppy J4, who hopes to see Charles keep giving tribute to his friend Sassy. I really hope that Charles gets Saz's trampoline park going. He knows how important it was for her and now we know her ashes will be placed there. It would be really touching if he completed her life goal. I know she's finally getting the writing credit she deserved all along, but I do hope they address the trampoline park. Then we have Mrs. Zwo with a theory about how Loretta could be involved with season five. Anyone else think that the car Loretta got into wasn't actually the car taking her to her flight to New Zealand? Why do I feel like the mob is gonna kidnap her and that's going to force the trio to investigate the disappearance of Nikki Catchmalu. Now we're obviously all super sad about Lester being the new murder victim, but it also means we'll get to learn a lot more about him in season five. So people are definitely looking forward to that because we Love Lester. User GrouchyRepublic7580 thinks Lester was definitely involved with the Mafia somehow. Here are their thoughts. In the finale, Lester was once again letting Oliver know about his dry cleaning. He's also seen delivering dry cleaning a few times over the seasons. Lester's also made it clear that he had also been married at the Orconia, so he has been there a long time. The Mafia wife at the end of season four says her husband's disappearance has everything to do with the building and just after that of the building's longest to nearest person is killed. I agree with that theory and I think Lester was definitely involved somehow. And my personal theory is that Sophia Cachimellier maybe is the one who killed Lester so there would be a murder in the building forcing the trio to look into her husband's disappearance because as she said, it has everything to do with the Arconia. And who has more to do with the Arconia than its long term doorman. Finally, we know the show always casts amazing actors. From crazy celebrity cameos to fantastic new emerging talent. Our members have started to share some of the names they'd like to see next season. JJCross32 would like to see Javier Bardem as Nikki. Kate Banji wants Paul Rudd to come back as another Roy that gets killed. Mr. Bartolotti would love to see Maria Canals Barrera play Mabel's aunt as a nod to Selina's Disney days. Other names that keep coming back are Catherine o', Hara, Danielle Radcliffe and Robert De Niro. And to be honest, I can picture them all in the Arconia. Personally, I'D love to see Andy Samberg show up. And that's it from me. I'm looking forward to season five. I'm sure it'll be there before we know it and I'll hopefully speak to you then. And if you're missing the show during the break, join us on the omitby subreddit R onlymurders. Hulu.

Maggie Bowles (51:34)

Thanks so much to Hannah from Reddit for always sharing the talk of the forums. It's so good. It's so cool to hear what what Reddit's talking about.

Ryan Tillotson (51:44)

Chaos that's happening within Reddit about the only murders universe we get the download.

Maggie Bowles (51:49)

We love it.

Ryan Tillotson (51:51)

Thank you so much, Hannah.

Maggie Bowles (51:52)

By the way, the Easter egg in the finale was that case of beer and double Easter egg. The wedding decorations on the front of the arconia.

Patrick Howe (52:01)

Okay.

Ryan Tillotson (52:01)

Thank you, thank you, thank you for all the emails this season. We've gotten a lot.

Maggie Bowles (52:06)

So many. We love reading them.

Ryan Tillotson (52:09)

Absolutely.

Maggie Bowles (52:10)

And now.

Ryan Tillotson (52:11)

And now we're doing it.

Maggie Bowles (52:12)

And now it's time to announce the winners of the Escape Room giveaway.

Straw Hut Media Announcer (52:16)

Right?

Ryan Tillotson (52:16)

That's right. Let's do it. You go.

Maggie Bowles (52:18)

Okay. I'll do New York.

Ryan Tillotson (52:19)

Okay.

Maggie Bowles (52:19)

Okay. Our winners for New York City are Sherry H. And Jennifer Y.

Ryan Tillotson (52:26)

That is correct. And for Los Angeles, Morgan H. And

Maggie Bowles (52:29)

Jackie L. We will have reached out to the winners to confirm that they can still collect their tickets.

Ryan Tillotson (52:36)

And if for whatever reason they cannot use the tickets, we will choose again.

Maggie Bowles (52:41)

We will. You can't hold us back.

Ryan Tillotson (52:43)

That's it for this season of the Only Murders in the Building podcast and

Maggie Bowles (52:48)

also the Only Murders in the Building television show.

Ryan Tillotson (52:51)

Yeah, both are ending now.

Maggie Bowles (52:52)

Both are done. It's kind of sad, a little bittersweet, but it's been a great journey.

Ryan Tillotson (52:57)

But we do know season five is being written right now.

Maggie Bowles (53:00)

We do.

Ryan Tillotson (53:00)

And we'll be back.

Maggie Bowles (53:02)

We'll be back.

Ryan Tillotson (53:03)

Anyway, see y' all soon.

Maggie Bowles (53:04)

See you soon.

Ryan Tillotson (53:05)

Bye.

Maggie Bowles (53:07)

Ryan just waved big across the to nobody. To nobody.

Ryan Tillotson (53:11)

Bye.

Maggie Bowles (53:12)

Bye.

Ryan Tillotson (53:16)

Please send us your thoughts and theories to us@onlymurderstrathutmedia.com Though I don't know how many theories there are right now.

Maggie Bowles (53:23)

Yeah, people have theories.

Ryan Tillotson (53:24)

Okay.

Maggie Bowles (53:24)

Thanks so much for listening. Take a minute to subscribe. Rate the show. Follow us. Leave us a review if you haven't done that yet. If you enjoy listening.

Jin Ha (53:32)

Yeah.

Ryan Tillotson (53:43)

Only Murders in the Building podcast is a production of Straw Hut Media, hosted and produced by Ryan Tillotson and Maggie Bowles. Associate producer is Steven Markley. Original music by Kyle Merritt and only Murders in the Building theme Music by Siddhartha Khosla. Assistant editor is Daniel Ferreira and production assistant is Carolyn Mendoza.

Maggie Bowles (53:58)

Thanks to Jin, Jane, John, and JJ for talking with us. That's Jinha, Jane Lynch, John Hoffman, and JJ Philbin. Also thanks to Patrick Howe for talking to us.

Ryan Tillotson (54:08)

And a big, big thanks, as always, to John Hoffman and the entire Hulu team.

Maggie Bowles (54:13)

We love you all.

Ryan Tillotson (54:14)

Goodbye. See you next year.

Maggie Bowles (54:16)

Yeah. Wow.

John Hoffman (54:23)

Lean forward, jj, because the microphone is very exciting.

Maggie Bowles (54:26)

We had someone reach out and ask if the series is based on Sting's or the police's Murder by Numbers. So just float that in the. In the writer's room. Maybe for season five, it's Sting called Murder by Numbers. Yeah. No, it's not very good. It's not a very good theory. But then I was remembering every breath you take, take, and I'll be watching you. And I was like, hold on. Is Sting the mastermind here? So, you know.

John Hoffman (54:56)

Oh, my God. Did we ever. You did. Okay. Really?

Maggie Bowles (55:01)

Did you ever acknowledge that? I don't even know if I. If anybody acknowledged it, but it's too long ago. How many years ago was season one? I mean, I don't know, but we

John Hoffman (55:09)

can remind people really quickly.

Writer/Producer (possibly Ben Smith or similar) (55:10)

That's what previously on Is for.

Maggie Bowles (55:14)

Yeah.