S4 E2: Gates of Heaven (Part 1)

Summary

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Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

S4 E2: "Gates of Heaven" (Part 1)

Date: September 4, 2024
Host: Maggie Bowles & Ryan Tillotson (Straw Hut Media, for Hulu)
Featured Guests: Kristen Newman (Writer), Daphne Rubin Vega (Ines), Lillian Rebelo (Anna)

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Episode Overview

This behind-the-scenes episode dives into Season 4, Episode 2 ("Gates of Heaven") of "Only Murders in the Building." Hosts Maggie Bowles and Ryan Tillotson explore the introduction of colorful new characters from the mysterious West Tower, discuss the process of casting and writing with family members of the Sauce family, and unpack the episode's big narrative pivot. They are joined by the episode’s writer Kristen Newman and Westies actors Daphne Rubin Vega and Lillian Rebelo, who share insights, on-set stories, and playful anecdotes that deepen the themes of community, mystery, and quirky New York charm.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Episode 2 Recap & Turning Point

• Opening Scenes: The episode opens with documentary footage of Saz Pataky, Charles (Steve Martin) is dealing with Saz’s ashes—awkward and humorous in classic Charles fashion.
  • “Me being dead is the least of your problemos. Also, get your hands off my boobs.” – Saz Pataky (Jane Lynch ghost, 01:26)
• Suspect Focus Shift: Suspicion moves to residents across the courtyard in the West Tower—aka the "Westies." The investigative focus pivots:
  • “We're not investigating Saz's murder anymore. We're investigating mine.” – Charles (Steve Martin), (03:28)
• Key Clues: Mabel and Oliver discover clues relating to Saz’s death, including a note in blood (“tap in”), a lockbox code spelling “oh, hell,” a pig in a bathtub, and a shower ham.

2. Building the West Tower & "Westies" Characters

• Origin of the West Tower: Kristen Newman discusses how new storylines and characters are inspired by real NYC architectural quirks and social divides:
  • “There was a disturbing trend in a lot of fancy buildings in New York that had a separate entrance—the ‘poor door.’... So it kind of started with that concept of this other group of people with this other entrance.” – Kristen Newman, (07:19)
• Casting & Character Creation: Newman reveals the unique process:
  • Many roles are written for specific big-name actors (e.g., Richard Kind as Stink Eye Joe).
  • “We created stink eye Joe for Richard Kind ... His name was Richard Kind in the script for a while; that’s how we pitched dialogue.” – Kristen Newman, (06:09)
  • The “Sauce family” was born out of imagining what unique eccentricities might be observed through NYC apartment windows.

3. Introduction to the Sauce Family ("The Westies")

• Meet the Neighbors: The Sauce family—Ines (Daphne Rubin Vega), Alfonso, and Anna (Lillian Rebelo)—are introduced as mysterious, sauce-obsessed, and quintessentially quirky.
  • “What kind of sauce are you thinking? We make all sauce. Any sauce you think we make, and we make it with love.” – Daphne Rubin Vega (Ines), (00:04/15:35)
  • The family’s tradition of playing “Oh Hell,” a real card game, is a centerpiece—inspired by the cast and showrunner John Hoffman’s real-life games.
• Actors' Experience Coming to OMitB: Both Daphne and Lillian describe surreal moments as fans-turned-cast, recounting their excitement and intimidation working with comedy icons.

4. Behind the Scenes: The Sauces, the Games, and the Ham

• Quirky Set Details:
  • The infamous “ham in the bathroom” originated from a real-life roommate’s habit (see 10:48–12:41 for full kitchen-to-shower ham lore).
  • “Wouldn’t it be real weird if it was in the bathroom? ... There was a lot cut where they're in the bathroom with the ham more. But you only need so much ham in the bathroom.” – Kristen Newman, (11:48/12:41)
  • Real sauce was simmered for window-stirring scenes to create an authentic “smellscape” (22:21).
• Card Games On Set:
  • Neither Daphne nor Lillian had played “Oh Hell” before; the cast learned and played together, with Martin Short as the expert.
    • “Marty, of course, used to play it often with, you know, the President... and Steven Spielberg.” – Daphne Rubin Vega, (20:26)
  • The mixture of real gameplay with character improvisation led to naturally fun on-set moments.

5. Special Moments & Memorable Quotes

• Steve Martin’s On-Set Magic: Daphne describes Steve Martin doing magic tricks between takes:
  • “He was ripping up cards and putting them back together backwards, inside out, ... right underneath our noses.” – Daphne Rubin Vega, (23:49)
• Daphne’s Approach: Being among comedy legends was humbling:
  • “I just sat back and was like, okay, don't even try to be funny. ... It was a good lesson.” – Daphne Rubin Vega, (24:19)

6. Writing Saz and the Return of Jan

• Saz’s Documentary Open & Emotional Arc:
  • Kristen Newman explains writing the cold open, blending humor and genuine loss:
    • “The whole season is really a Charles and Saz love story. And I think it really pays off emotionally at the end.” – Kristen Newman, (30:06)
• Casting Jane Lynch: Newman personally reached out to Lynch to play Saz Pataky, drawing on a previous landlord-tenant friendship (30:27).
• Ghosts as Narrative Device:
  • The Saz ghost is meant to allow Charles to process grief and understanding, and to explore the world of stunt performers.
  • “You want to let him work that through with her ... it wasn’t just a stunt double, he did lose his best friend.” – Kristen Newman, (31:50)
• Bringing Back Jan (Amy Ryan):
  • Jan’s return was inspired partly by real-life prison break stories (“Escape at Dannemora”) and the writers’ desire for her fun energy:
    • “It made us laugh that she could so easily get out and outsmart ... she definitely could seduce a guard and get out, and then probably kill them and get brain on her shirt.” – Kristen Newman, (34:43)
  • “A mix of parkour sass taught me and psychosexual manipulation. I won't bore or arouse you with the deets.” – Jan (Amy Ryan), (35:11)

7. Easter Eggs & Fan Theories

• Credit Sequence Clues:
  • Each episode’s opening credits contain an Easter egg—episode two’s is the hanging hamon leg (36:38).
• Who Did It?:
  • The hosts and guests speculate on suspects, but Jan appears to be in the clear after episode 2—focus shifts to West Tower and possibly movie-related characters.

8. Sauce Lore & What’s Next

• More Sauce Details to Come:
  • “You're for sure going to learn more about the sauce lore and the ingredients of the sauce, especially those that are imported.” – Lillian Rebelo, (22:43)
• Looking Forward:
  • Both actors are excited for audiences to learn more and see how the season unfolds—especially Lillian, for whom this is her first TV role.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Sauce Making
  • “What kind of sauce are you thinking? We make all sauce. Any sauce you think we make, and we make it with love.” – Daphne Rubin Vega (Ines), (00:04/15:35)
  • “Our fantasy is to be able to do that in perpetuity, you know, throughout the entire universe. That's what it is.” – Daphne Rubin Vega, (16:09)
• Charles and Saz:
  • “We're not investigating Saz's murder anymore. We're investigating mine.” – Charles, (03:28)
• On Stink Eye Joe (Richard Kind):
  • “We created stink eye Joe for Richard Kind ... His name was Richard Kind in the script for a while.” – Kristen Newman, (06:09)
• On Being Overwhelmed by Comedy Legends:
  • “To be in the room watching all these superlative comedians just sparring ... I just sat back and was like, okay, don't even try to be funny.” – Daphne Rubin Vega, (24:19)
• Jan’s prison break:
  • "A mix of parkour Sass taught me and psychosexual manipulation. I won't bore or arouse you with the deets." – Jan (Amy Ryan), (35:11)
• Sauce lore tease:
  • “You're for sure going to learn more about the sauce lore and the ingredients of the sauce, especially those that are imported.” – Lillian Rebelo, (22:43)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• 06:09 — Kristen Newman on writing for Richard Kind (“Stink Eye Joe”)
• 07:19 — Origin of the West Tower and the “poor door” inspiration
• 10:48–12:41 — The true story behind the ham in the bathroom
• 13:47–16:09 — Daphne Rubin Vega on becoming Ines and the Sauce family dynamic
• 18:12–20:53 — Cast learning "Oh Hell" card game with Martin Short
• 23:32–24:19 — On-set stories, Steve Martin’s magic tricks
• 28:15–31:06 — Writing Saz’s emotional journey; genesis of Jane Lynch’s casting
• 34:43–35:19 — Jan’s return, inspired by real-life prison break stories
• 36:38 — Noting the hanging hamon leg Easter egg in episode 2 credits

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Tone & Style

The episode is witty, relaxed, and brimming with affection for the show’s unique blend of mystery and New York eccentricity. There’s a playful rapport among hosts, guests, and cast, with plenty of self-deprecating humor (“don’t even try to be funny,” “forever sauce”), behind-the-scenes camaraderie, and shared awe at working alongside seasoned legends.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of the podcast exposes the delightful chaos of casting, writing, and performing in "Only Murders in the Building," while deepening fans’ understanding of the new season’s directions. It spotlights the writers’ improvisational instincts, the cast’s genuine chemistry, and the detailed quirks that create the show’s signature charm. Listeners walk away hungry for more sauce lore, more Westies shenanigans, and the next layer of mystery in the Arconia.

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Next Up:
Don’t miss Part 2 later this week featuring showrunner John Hoffman and Amy Ryan (Jan)—for deeper dives into this season’s biggest twists.

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Transcript

[Maggie Bowles]

Straw Hut Media.

[Ryan Tillotson]

What kind of sauce are you making?

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

What kind of sauce are you thinking? We make all sauce. Any sauce you think we make, and we make it with love.

[Maggie Bowles]

Hello and welcome back to the Only Murders in the Building podcast. I'm Maggie Bowles.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And I'm Ryan Tillotson.

[Maggie Bowles]

And we are looking behind the scenes, mining for clues as we meet the the cast and creators of the Hulu original series, Only Murders in the Building.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Today on the show, we're talking all about episode two. We'll hear from writer Kristen Neumann about her contribution to the casting of Saz Pataky and the origins of the West Tower.

[Maggie Bowles]

We'll also hear from two members of the Sauce family, Daphne Rubin Vega, who plays Ines, and Lillian Rebelo, who plays her daughter Anna.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But first, a quick recap, listeners, be aware.

[Maggie Bowles]

Spoilers for episode two lie ahead, so if you haven't watched the episode yet, hit the pause button, go back and watch it, and come right back.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Recap. Episode 2, Gates of Heaven.

[Maggie Bowles]

We open up on documentary footage of Saz Pataky. Charles still has Saz's ashes all over his hands. And while he's carefully funneling her ashes into a mason jar, the ghost of Saz appears.

[Kristen Newman]

Me being dead is the least of your problemos. Also, get your hands off my boobs.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We learn about some possible suspects across the courtyard at the Arconia in the West Tower. The Westies. All right, Charles, tell us about the Westies. There's Stink Eye Joe, the Sauce family Christmas all the time guy, and an apartment that always has the blinds down.

[Maggie Bowles]

Now that they think Charles might have been the target, they decide he should stay home to be safe. While Mabel and Oliver go over to the West Tower and investigate the new suspects.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Mabel and Oliver meet Stink Eye Joe, AKA Vince Fish, and he brings them over to the apartment of the Soss family, where we meet Inez Alfonso and their daughter Anna. Inez has a major crush on Charles.

[Maggie Bowles]

He's her hall pass. While Charles is hidden away, safe at home and waiting on hold with the police, Jan sneaks out of prison and into his apartment through the closet in the secret passageways. And she is worried about Saz, too.

[Kristen Newman]

Yeah, she's real.

[Ryan Tillotson]

While Oliver and Mabel and the Westies play oh hell, we discover they have a giant jamon roped up in the shower from Portugal. It's a ham, Mabel. It's a ham in the shower. We learn that the Blinds apartment is Dudenoff, the name from Szazz's sticky note. And he lives in Portugal.

[Maggie Bowles]

Some numbers From Szazz's notes. Open up the lockbox on Dudenoff's door, and those numbers upside down spell out oh, hell.

[Ryan Tillotson]

7, 734-4-0.

[Maggie Bowles]

Inside that apartment, Oliver and Mabel find a ham radio, a window that opens, a footprint on the windowsill, and a pig in the bathtub.

[Ryan Tillotson]

There's some aggressive knocking at the door. When they finally open it, there's nobody there. And the pig escapes.

[Maggie Bowles]

The luminal arrives, and so does detective Williams. She's worried about them, so they spray the luminol, and they see that Szazz wrote a note in her blood on the floor.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It says, tap in.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's right. And it's a message to Charles. Charles, do you know what that means? Yes,

[Charles (Steve Martin's character)]

I do. We're not investigating Saz's murder anymore. We're investigating mine.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Welcome back on with the show. First up, writer of episode two, Kristen Newman.

[Maggie Bowles]

Thank you so much for being here, Kristen Newman.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You weren't able to be part of season three. Getting back to season four. Jumping in, how was it?

[Kristen Newman]

I mean, it was just an amazing embarrassment of riches in terms of the cast that snuck on in season three, in terms of your Meryls, your Pauls. And then we came back and there was an actors strike that, you know, had just ended. And so all these movie stars were suddenly available because everybody's movies had gotten canceled. So everybody wanted to be in it. And so it was so exciting to just come into a writer's room and every day, John Hoffman would walk in with another incoming phone call from some movie star that wanted to do the show. It was amazing.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay, is that how that's happening? It's just like John's, like, working these deals or something, like in the background while writing's happening or like, you don't have any idea, like, as you're going.

[Kristen Newman]

Yeah, basically, after you have Meryl Streep, basically, everybody wants to do your TV show. And as a viewer of season three, instead of a writer, it was this magic trick to watch them do to like, oh, my God, who is next? And there really aren't other shows that get to do that. And so this year, it was wonderful because the phones were really ringing with giant celebrities who wanted to do the show, but of course, they're very busy people. And so it takes some time to write a show. And then all of a sudden, everybody's got a big movie they've been offered or something else to do. And so it was a lot of writing for one giant movie star. And then you rewrite it. For a different giant movie star. And things change and awards come. And so it was not an easy process. But then looking at the season, having just watched all of the episodes for season four, you really get that feeling, sort of like after you have a baby and you can't imagine any other child could ever have been the child you were supposed to have. You watch these amazing people and you're like, nobody else could have played this role. It's amazing. How did we ever imagine anybody else doing it? So the lucky, lucky, lucky collection of people we got this year was such a joy to write for. It was amazing.

[Maggie Bowles]

It was something we were thinking about in episode two, because, like, we meet stink eye Jo in episode two, and it feels like no one could have played that part except for Richard Kind. Right.

[Kristen Newman]

Richard kind was the exception. Okay. When we brought up stink eye Joe, I think we created stink eye Joe for Richard kind. And his name, he didn't even get the name Vince fish until very late. His name was Richard kind. We called him Richard kind. That was his character named. That was how we pitched dialogue was in Richard Crine's very distinctive voice, Kind of an easy, easy impersonation to do. He was always Vince fish. And we got him, thank God, because that would have been hard to shift gears. And he feels so much like he lives in the wallpaper of the arconia. We're like, how did we ever do this show without him? He's like the personification of only murders in the building. Somehow it's perfect.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Hey, it's the famous podcasters from the east tower.

[Maggie Bowles]

So speaking of stink eye Joe, episode two is where we meet the westies, as they're called. Can you tell us about having the responsibility of introducing viewers to this new wing of the arconia and its residents?

[Kristen Newman]

Yeah, that was a really fun, I think, very early discovery when we just started with. What happens in almost every season of this TV show is that something dramatic happens at the end of a season and the details of what happened have not been worked out yet. And then the next season, we figure out, okay, what do we think happened there? And so starting with just what we knew, just that a bullet came through the window from clearly across the way. All of a sudden we're like, who lives over there? And what if it was this completely other side of the building? You know, there was this very disturbing trend in a lot of fancy buildings in New York city that would be also forced to have rent controlled units that would come with it. That where they really call, they had a separate entrance and they called it the poor door. That was, that was an offensive thing that happened quite, for quite some time. And so it kind of started with that concept of this other group of people with this other entrance. And for a while we had a different doorman down there that we called Wester, the West side Lester. Then I didn't even get a doorman in the end. But yeah, thinking of who is this other world of people was exciting to get to open up.

[Charles (Steve Martin's character)]

There's stink Eyed Joe. He seems hostile. Always looking over here, giving me this stink eye. Ah, there's the Sauce family. Always stirring some kind of sauce at all hours. And looking over here, three people, lots of pots, always stirring.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Are they stirring up a nice batch o murder?

[Charles (Steve Martin's character)]

There's the oddest one of all Christmas, all the time guy, handsome guy, always working out, never takes down his Christmas decorations, wears a Christmas sweater all year round. That's most of the.

[Kristen Newman]

It just kind of came from the initial conversation about like the wonder that is New York windows, right? And like looking in to a wall of apartments and getting to see all these people and sometimes kind of forgetting that they also can just look back and also see you. And this like very weird, intimate look into people's lives that you have when you live in these apartment buildings and sort of forget that they're looking back and all of the judgments you might make about them. That it's fun to go to the other side of the building and hear Vince talking about that weirdo who's always staring over here. You know, he's always also made his own assumptions about them on the other side. And, and, and they all have their own little gossip about the Easties as well. Right? So it started about that. And so what are you watching people doing? And just like, you know, what if they're just always staring and stirring, Staring and stirring. Kind of weird and creepy. Like just a lot of sauce, too much sauce. Like suspicious that they're always making sauce and you know, and so yeah, the Sauce family was born.

[Maggie Bowles]

The Sauce family, I love it. So something that's really fun to me about meeting the Westies is they have their own little group, kind of like we have on the east side of the Arconia. And they have this like tradition of playing this card game. Oh hell. And they're going to the bathroom to get some of the good stuff and then coming back out. Can you tell us about that scene and about that game?

[Kristen Newman]

Yeah, I mean, you know what? I know because we all heard about it for the first time from John Hoffman Who, I imagine, told you that he learned how to play it from Marty, and Marty had great stories about learning it from Steven Spielberg. This is just who hangs out with these people. And they all have these very amazing card games on planes, you know, with famous people, and. But it's all very sweet and charming, and they love this game. And so then I had to write the scene. I have no idea how to play. Oh, hell. So I still. Yeah, no, no, I've never played it. So I don't know. I just tried. Just trying to do my best at that. And then we were like, what's the weird, suspicious thing that these lovely people are doing? And that was. The Jimon was actually a true character trait of a roommate of Matteo Borghese. Who can tell you more about it in the shower? No, I think he kept it in the kitchen, so it was less weird. But still, it was this. These jamons are hundreds and hundreds of dollars, right? They're very expensive. The pig is fed only acorns, only from this field in Portugal or Ibiza or wherever it is in Spain. They feed them and they fatten them, and they love them, and then they eat them. And so it was hanging for a long time. And his friend had this knife, like his HMO knife, and he'd go over there and cut off a piece of the jamon and eat it. And it was just always there. And always. Just this odd quirk that this guy always had a hormone hanging, like he was in a Spanish restaurant. And so we're like, wouldn't it be real weird if it was in the bathroom? Like, that would be something that just tells you something is weird about it. And there. There was, you know, for time, there was a lot cut where they're in the bathroom with the ham more. But you only need so much ham in the bathroom.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, fair.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, sometimes you want to take a shower.

[Maggie Bowles]

No, that's not the shower bathroom. That's the ham bathroom.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Right, right, right, right.

[Kristen Newman]

Let's keep it moist, you know, all that important.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's a great point.

[Kristen Newman]

We want a nice moist toilet. Ham.

[Maggie Bowles]

Jesus. After the break, we'll hear from two of the three members of the sauce family, Daphne Rubin Vega, who plays Ines, and Lillian Rebelo, who plays her daughter, Anna.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Welcome back. In episode two, we meet some neighbors that we'd never seen. And that means new cast.

[Maggie Bowles]

I love new cast. And as expected, both Lillian Rubella, who plays Anna, and Daphne Rubin Vega, who plays Inez, her mom, were both fans of Only Murderers before they even auditioned

[Ryan Tillotson]

for Of Course they were, of course.

[Maggie Bowles]

But it's so fun to think about being a fan of a show, seeing the arconia through your TV screen and then walking into it like, that's totally right. Here's Daphne.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

I was. I was. Because one of my godsons is Michael Cyril Creighton. And I knew him before he was anybody, before he had those three names like me. And so I love Michael and I. And so I watched the show and I was like, oh, my God, this show is, you know, and he is

[Ryan Tillotson]

so fun in it. He is so fun.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

Yeah, he's marvelous. He's just marvelous.

[Maggie Bowles]

So then, is that how you got involved in the show? Is it with Michael, or do you know John Hoffman?

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

I didn't sleep with Michael. No. I got my job legitimately. I got a call, I had an audition. I. I had a zoom. Because usually you go on tape and it's completely antiseptic. Who knows what, right? It's just like.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

And so the opportunity to actually present in front of humans, albeit on the other side, was great.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We can assume we're going to learn a lot more about Inez this season, but maybe you could tell us a little bit about Inez herself.

[Maggie Bowles]

She is.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Who is she?

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

Well, she's a mother and she is a devoted wife, but she does have this hall pass. And I think that, you know, she uses that fantasy to, you know, fuel her. Her relationship with, you know, Alfonso, who's her, you know, ride or die wingman till death.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You know, that's right.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

You know, I think our love language is also cooking and making sauce, you know, so we do that.

[Ryan Tillotson]

What kind of sauce are you making?

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

What kind of sauce are you thinking? We make all sauce. Any sauce you think we make, and we make it with love. I believe Artisanalia. And ask me what that is. Okay, don't ask me what that is.

[Maggie Bowles]

What is artisanal? Yeah, we've been perfecting the craft, the sauce craft for a long time.

[Ryan Tillotson]

All sauces.

[Maggie Bowles]

All sauces. Yes.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

All sauce. Any sauce.

[Maggie Bowles]

All sauce. Any sauce.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

And our fantasy is to be able to do that in perpetuity, you know, throughout the entire universe. That's what it is.

[Maggie Bowles]

Forever sauce.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

Forever sauce.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Wow. Years of living across from your wife's crush must be hard, huh?

[Lillian Rebelo]

Especially when your wife puts on a

[Maggie Bowles]

push up bra to cook.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

Can I help it you if.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But ASOS likes to watch me make sauce.

[Lillian Rebelo]

Mom, I need to move out.

[Ryan Tillotson]

The person who will inherit the sauce empire is Ana Oliveira, daughter of Inez and Alfonso, the youngest member of the Sauce family, played by Lillian Rebelo. Here she is.

[Lillian Rebelo]

Well, I play Ana Oliveira. When I first got the part or auditioned for it, I thought her last name was Sauce because she was Anna Sauce. And, like, Daphne and I. Daphne Ruben Vega plays my mom, which is a dream, but she and I both thought that they pronounced it like sauce. We were like, oh, this is like the Sauce family. But no, they changed. They, like, gave us our full name when we got on set finally, which was awesome. And we were like, okay, this makes a lot of sense because all of our sauce jars say Oliveira. So our family makes sauce for a living. We live in the west tower. We're the Westies.

[Maggie Bowles]

How old is your character? Do you know? We were trying to figure it out.

[Lillian Rebelo]

Yeah, it's a good cue. I think that she's probably 19 or 20. There is mention that she wants to move out of the house, and there's no mention of, like, school. But I don't drink alcohol, if you notice, if you're watching when we're at the round table, I'm not drinking alcohol. So playing oh, Hell, yes. When we're playing oh, Hell, I've got some water or some juice in every shot you see of me drinking.

[Kristen Newman]

All right, come on, come on.

[Maggie Bowles]

Let's get started.

[Kristen Newman]

You're gonna love this game, but be careful. It's a little dangerous.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Had you played O Hell before?

[Lillian Rebelo]

No, I actually had no idea that it was a real game. We thought it was made up. I thought I was gonna get on set, and they were gonna be like, okay, let's play some game. And, you know, we've got the incredible. Like, Martin Short was in that scene, and I thought he was just gonna be like, okay, this is a random new rule. And so I was so game for whatever. And then I got a text the night before that was like, hey, just so you know, this is a real game. This is a link to the rules. So that I'm studying. The night before I got on set, I'm studying for this game, and it ended up being so, so fun. It's. It's similar to a couple different games. I think the most similar that I've ever played is, like, rummy 500.

[Maggie Bowles]

It seems like no one knew how to play O Hell before filming this show. Like, you'd never heard of it, right, Remy? No, I'd never heard of it. But just because no one's ever heard of it does not mean we shouldn't all be playing it. So if you want to learn how to play oh, Hell, check the show notes because we're going to put a link to a website that will show you you everything you need to know. Here's more from Daphne Rubin Vega.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

I thought oh, Hell was a fake game.

[Maggie Bowles]

So did we.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

And so, you know, they were like, okay, learn how to play oh, Hell. And I thought that meant, like, fantasize

[Kristen Newman]

about what O Hell would be.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

You know, like, create a game called O Hell. There is no real game called oh, Hell.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But shooting that scene with. That's like a room full of fun people.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

First of all, it was actors acting like we're having fun. Like. Like you just. You just have fucking fun, right? Like, it was. It was probably one of my. My first day. My first day working with Marty and Selena, and I had worked a little bit with Richard, and I know Richard way back, and it was just geeking out at being in. In the place to be. You know, I'm a New Yorker and only Murders is the place to be with these amazing people. And I love John Hoffman. The whole. The whole set was wonderful. And, you know, learning how to play this game, acting like I knew how to play.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Did anyone else know how to play the game?

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

I don't think so, except for Marty. Marty, of course, used to play it often with, you know, the President of the United States and, you know, Steven Spielberg. Yeah, no, they used to have oh Hell parties. He was tolerating the fact that we all sucked, you know, and that he actually probably. We couldn't actually play the game. It must have been terrible for him. And I'm sorry, Marty. I'll learn. But, yeah, it was a great thing.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Lillian Rebelo did learn how to play, and she says she even plays it with friends and family still to this day.

[Lillian Rebelo]

Yes. I have forced some friends and family to learn the game, and I think they like it.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Lillian Rebelo]

So it's fun. It's. You have to get the hang of it. So I think once you start to understand the rules and you've played a couple times, then it's really fun.

[Maggie Bowles]

Then you can achieve.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Then you can achieve.

[Lillian Rebelo]

You can achieve. It's a super fun game. I would recommend. You could totally learn. It's not as hard as it seems. The first day on set, I remember it was, I think, my second day on set, but Martin Short was there and he was like, oh, do you guys know how to play? And we're, like, sitting around in the green room, which was actually Oliver's apartment. And then we're moving over to set and playing these games, and we're all learning it as we're playing too. I was like, this is a surreal moment. Martin Jordan is teaching me how to play a card game right now. And Selena Gomez and Richard Kind. And we're all just sitting there. It was really fun because we did have to get a bunch of clips of us playing. And so there were moments of where we were actually just playing this game and they were just filming us do that, which was really awesome. In character, obviously.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Was that your first day? That scene, the card game scene?

[Lillian Rebelo]

That was my second day. My first day was just like our first shot.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I think you're referring to this shot where you guys are just kind of like looking at the camera and stirring

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

sauce through the window.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yes.

[Lillian Rebelo]

And that was real sauce. I bet it was real bubbling sauce. Sauce on a stove and it smelled like sauce in the apartment. It was. There was a smellscape.

[Maggie Bowles]

Wow.

[Lillian Rebelo]

It was really immersive experience.

[Maggie Bowles]

It sounds like it. So I assume we're going to learn more about the sauce. The lore. The sauce lore as the season progresses. Is that. Is that a fair assumption? For sure.

[Lillian Rebelo]

You're for sure going to learn more about the sauce lore and the ingredients of the sauce, especially those that are into ported.

[Maggie Bowles]

So what are you most excited about for once the season starts getting released and the episodes start going out and maybe your friends and family start getting to see you in the show. Are you. What are you most excited about for that time?

[Lillian Rebelo]

I'm excited to watch because I haven't seen it, and then I'm excited to watch other people watch.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Lillian Rebelo]

Because I do know what's going to happen for the most part.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Lillian Rebelo]

They did a good job of keeping secrets from us even. But, yeah, I'm just really excited to watch people watch the twists and turns. This is my first TV appearance, so I'm so excited to watch everyone and just share it with, you know, the people who've gotten me here.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

You know, the most. The most amazing stuff was just hearing the stories that, you know, watching Steve do magic tricks while we were waiting for them to set up a shot was, you know, unforgettable.

[Ryan Tillotson]

What kind of magic trick is he doing?

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

I mean, he was ripping up cards and putting them back together backwards, inside out, showing the fold, folding them, asking another person to hold them, and then taking it back, like, right underneath our noses.

[Maggie Bowles]

Wow.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I had no idea.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

Manifesting. Manifesting.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's amazing.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I knew we played music, but also.

[Maggie Bowles]

Also magic.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Magic.

[Maggie Bowles]

He's. He is a Renaissance man. Renaissance. Renaissance man, for sure.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

To be in the room watching, like, all These superlative comedians just sparring, you know, like that. That delightful spar and everybody getting in on it and somebody going like, look at what I got. And I got this. And yeah, I just sat back and was like, okay, don't even try to be funny. Okay, don't even try it. And it was a good lesson.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, yeah. Did you try it once to be funny? Yeah.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

Hell no.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not gonna try and be funny. That would really be embarrassing. I'm sure that's been said before. But to be in a room with all those.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I know. Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Daphne might have been a little scared to perform in front of that really stacked cast, but we are her biggest fans.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Huge fans.

[Maggie Bowles]

She was in the original Broadway cast for Rent. She was the voice of Dolores Roach on. On that Gimlet show, the Horror of Dolores Roach.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Great podcast.

[Maggie Bowles]

And that was actually like a one man show that she had developed with a friend. She's so good.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Plus Pajama Party. Just go check it out. Go listen to Pajama Party.

[Lillian Rebelo]

She's so great. She's an icon, though. She's got everything.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, she's like.

[Lillian Rebelo]

And she played my mom on screen, but she really was just like such a wonderful presence to have on set too. Like, she was very motherly and she would like. But in like the cool aunt way. Like, she would be like, oh, my God. And she had like these crazy outfits with these like furry green heels and she'd be like walking around in them. And she always had, like, crazy. They all had crazy stories. I think my first day on set, the first day where everyone was there, I think I blacked out. Like, I don't know what happened because I was just absorbing and everything everyone was saying. Like, Daphne was telling me funny stories and then like, Martin Short and Richard Kind were just like riffing off of one another. And Desmond. Desmond is like, like a sneaky one liner. Like, every once in a while he would just drop a joke that would be so funny. And he like ad libbed every once in a while. They were so funny.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Is that a person? Don't be ridiculous. It's a ham. Imported from Portugal. Very special. It's a ham, Mabel. It's a ham in the shower. It definitely seems like the Sauce family is up to something.

[Maggie Bowles]

But do they know who kills Sassy?

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

I'm not sure if I remember.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's a good answer.

[Maggie Bowles]

Love it. Love it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, that's good.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

Oh, I have. I have something for you. During this season, I urge you to spy for the Panamanian flag.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay, Well, we're very gullible.

[Maggie Bowles]

We really are. We're looking for everything, you know.

[Ryan Tillotson]

After the break, we're back again with the writer of episode two, Krista Newman, to talk about Saz, our beloved Saz and what to do with her ashes. Plus the return of Jan and the

[Maggie Bowles]

inspiration for psychosexual manipulation.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Welcome back.

[Maggie Bowles]

We're talking again with Kristen Newman. She is the writer of episode two.

[Ryan Tillotson]

This episode opens up with Saz's like, documentary, like, monologue piece. Right. How much of that was written? Like, how is there a whole documentary out there that she recorded that you wrote?

[Kristen Newman]

No, I think what's in there is exactly like a first draft of that. We loved getting to hear her talk about her history and I loved the footage of her as a little girl, you know, with her dad jumping and learning how to fall. It was. I don't know. That was one of those just sort of like that cold open just kind of came in a wave in terms of the images of her talking about learning how to fall and playing with danger and. I don't know, I started the whole kind of story breaking process with the image of Charles just holding his hands up, covered in ashes and picturing what is Steve Martin do with that? And like, it was so easy to picture him both heartbroken but also funny, trying to use his elbows and his feet and just trying to. How do I. What do I do?

[Charles (Steve Martin's character)]

I know what I'll do. I'll wash her into a bowl.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Great plan.

[Lillian Rebelo]

A bowl.

[Charles (Steve Martin's character)]

Then I can take the water and ashes, pour them into something, let the water evaporate. Maybe a mason jar.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, Homie, Cozy. What a good idea. I love mason.

[Kristen Newman]

Enjoy.

[Lillian Rebelo]

We will go get that for you now.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yes.

[Kristen Newman]

You know, and it was. It just felt very easy to picture him in that moment. So the whole cult kind of came as a piece and always stayed that way. A lot of them, a lot of everything has always worked and reworked and reworked, but that kind of just came.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. It's so tragic and it's so funny.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, it's such a great scene with him trying to. His bright idea of putting it into a bowl and then dumping it into the jar.

[Kristen Newman]

And it's so sad.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It's so sad.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

Yeah, it's really.

[Kristen Newman]

The whole season is really a Charles and Saz love story. And I think it really, really pays off emotionally at the end.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, I'm glad to hear that.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

We're about as excited as we could ever be because we're going to talk to Jane lynch for the podcast this season.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

And we are so thrilled. We're such big fans of hers.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, cannot wait.

[Kristen Newman]

She's the greatest. She rented a house of mine. That's how we first met.

[Maggie Bowles]

Really?

[Kristen Newman]

She rented what? Yeah, my single girl house. I moved out, and she needed a place to live for maybe a year and a half or so in between places, and so she was there, and that's how we made friends. And then I was on this show and we were talking about who would be a good Steve stunt devil. It was this amazing thing.

[Maggie Bowles]

That was you.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

That was me.

[Maggie Bowles]

We have you to thank for that. Thank you so much.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

I think.

[Kristen Newman]

So, as I recall, I don't know, it was 2020, you know, June 2020, so I don't really remember. It might have totally been somebody else. I have no idea. But I did text her. I did go like, do you want to play sasp attacking Steve stunt double? And she's like, yes, I'm in.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love it. Oh, it's.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

It.

[Ryan Tillotson]

She's such. She's so much fun throughout all the seasons.

[Maggie Bowles]

A national treasure. A true national treasure.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Absolutely.

[Kristen Newman]

She is. And she really, again, hits it out of the park by the end of the season, emotionally. She's so good in it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I can't wait. I can't wait.

[Maggie Bowles]

Speaking of that, actually, we get another talking ghost this season, which maybe is that every season. I'm not. I'd have to think back, but, like, we were talking about Saz coming back as herself, as a ghost, and we were thinking, like, is that because there's always a talking ghost and only murders, or is that because we just. We can't get enough of Saz Pataky? I don't know. What do you think?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. What was the decision process? How did it go?

[Kristen Newman]

It was really mostly just because, you know, it was Charles's big, emotional story is kind of coming to a deeper understanding of who she was to him. Because when we first meet her in season one, he's annoyed she shows up, right. She's kind of like, oh, God, I have to see her. She's in town, right? And then over the season, she's been around more and really been there to give him advice and to really know him, to go like, this is how you always are. This is what you're like, think about this. You know, she's been there for him at these key moments for advice. And we really wanted it to be a bit of a love story to stunt people, too. We'll meet more stunt People in this season coming up and go into her world of stunts more. As we look into this and thinking about somebody who falls for you your whole career, who takes all the hits for you, and then having Steve really realize. Charles really realizes in this season how much she did for him in so many departments, and that it wasn't just a stunt double, that actually he did lose his best friend. And so there's. You know, you want to let him work that through with her and. And see how she supports him, and then maybe in the end, see how he's able to do it even without her. And. And so, yeah, you kind of needed her for that. But, yeah, Jane did say it. Thank you for killing me. I got so much more screen time. Hey, hey, hey. Don't sweat it. Me being dead is the least of your problemos. Also, get your hands off my boobs.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. John teased, I remember last season when we spoke with him, that we probably get to see more of her than we ever would. So looks like it's happening. It's great.

[Kristen Newman]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

It's kind of.

[Kristen Newman]

Usually, you know, it's hard for most actors when you get killed on a show, but on this show, it's really good news. You get a lot.

[Maggie Bowles]

The other person we get back this summer, this episode, and episode two that we were so excited to see was Jan, played by Amy Ryan.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Right. We can't avoid that.

[Maggie Bowles]

We can't not talk about that. So can you tell us about bringing Jan back for that episode? And.

[Kristen Newman]

Yeah, I mean, you just want her back because she's so much fun. And. Yeah, we had alluded to Saz being in a relationship with her last year, and she kind of had a moment where she said, I really probably gotta break up with her. And so when we were thinking about who are the suspects that they should go to and they should think about, you know, it felt like somebody that the audience would be thinking about even though she was in jail. And so it made us laugh that she was able to easily kind of get out and outsmart and, you know, like, she definitely. Oh, God. What was the show where Ben Stiller directs and it's the two guys break out of prison, escape a Dannemora. It's a fantastic watch. You have to watch it. It's only seven episodes, and it's amazing. But anyway, so when we were. When we were looking at bringing Jan back, we thought a lot about escape at Dannemora and the way that they manipulated Patricia Arquette's character as the guard to get out. And we're like, jan definitely did that. She definitely could seduce a guard and get out and then probably kill them and get brain on her shirt.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

Back.

[Charles (Steve Martin's character)]

Stay back. How did you get out of prison?

[Kristen Newman]

A mix of parkour sass taught me and psychosexual manipulation.

[Lillian Rebelo]

I won't bore or arouse you with the deets.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, I'm not bored.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Security guard brain.

[Ryan Tillotson]

As you do. Yeah, yeah, no, that. When before we started watching the season, we had both, like, let's. Who. Who do we think did it? Just to get it out there?

[Maggie Bowles]

No, it was after episode one.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay. And my guess was. Was.

[Maggie Bowles]

Was we were both pretty sure. We were like, it must be so.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It's crazy to see her in two. So immediately you guys were on to it.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Kristen Newman]

I'm so glad, because, yeah, there was a. There was a lot of concern that that's what everybody would immediately think. So we wanted to make that go away.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Mission accomplished.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay. So now that Jan is no longer a suspect, or at least it seems

[Maggie Bowles]

like she's no longer suspect.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, who's your guess?

[Maggie Bowles]

My guess?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Maybe one of the Westies.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Maybe someone with the movie.

[Maggie Bowles]

Someone. Oh, someone involved in the movie. Yeah. Or someone in the building. Another, like, neighbor that we've never met before. Perhaps.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Possibly. Sure.

[Maggie Bowles]

I don't know. I felt like after episode one, I was so sure that Jan was going to be somehow responsible for this, but now it feels like she's not.

[Ryan Tillotson]

No, I think she's in the clear.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, let's also talk about Easter eggs in the open opening credits because we forgot to mention them in episode one. And I love looking for them all the time.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I don't track them.

[Maggie Bowles]

You do every time. So episode one, did you catch it? No, it was a plain shadow.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay.

[Maggie Bowles]

Episode two, I don't know. It was the hanging Hamon leg.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, gosh.

[Maggie Bowles]

All right.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I like looking right. Is that what it's called?

[Maggie Bowles]

I think so, yeah. All right. Later this week, come back for part two of our coverage of episode two.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, my gosh. On Friday. It's going to be an incredible conversation with two incredible people. Number one, John Hoffman.

[Maggie Bowles]

John Hoffman. You know him, you love him. Showrunner, co creator all around.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Mensch.

[Maggie Bowles]

Mensch. Writer of episode one, director of episodes one and two. Etc, Etc. Etc.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And the amazing Amy Ryan will be joining us. Jan herself.

[Maggie Bowles]

Jan herself. And you realize the last time we talked to her, Ryan, we didn't even know she was a murderer.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I know.

[Maggie Bowles]

We just thought she was a kinky bassoonist.

[Ryan Tillotson]

In season one, when we talked to her. We had no idea we were talking to the murderer.

[Maggie Bowles]

It's so wild. And now it feels like it's old news. Yeah, you know, she went to prison,

[Ryan Tillotson]

then she escaped prison and now she's wandering loose with security guard brains.

[Maggie Bowles]

It's wild.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay, that's the next episode in just a few days.

[Maggie Bowles]

Thanks for listening.

[Ryan Tillotson]

See you soon.

[Maggie Bowles]

Thanks for listening to another episode of the Only Murders in the Building podcast. Please send your thoughts and theories to [e-mail] Take a minute to subscribe. Rate the show. Follow Follow us and leave us a review if you enjoy the show.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Only Murders in the Building podcast is a production of Straw Hut Media, hosted and produced by Ryan Tillotson and Maggie Bowles. Associate producer is Stephen Markley, original music by Kyle Merritt and only Murders in the Building theme music by Siddhartha Khosla. Assistant editor is Daniel Ferreira. Production assistant is Carolyn Mendoza.

[Maggie Bowles]

Thank you to Kristen Newman, Daphne, Ruben Vega, and Lillian Rebelo for talking with us this week.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And a big, big thanks as always to John Hoffman and the entire Hulu team.

[Kristen Newman]

Thank you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Bye.

[Maggie Bowles]

Mabel and Oliver are playing oh hell around the Table with Richard Kind. With Richard Kind.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Stinky eyed Joe.

[Maggie Bowles]

Stinky Stinky eye. Stinky.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

I like this Stinky eyed. It's so affectionate. Stinky eye kind of like makes it more huge.

[Maggie Bowles]

We were thinking maybe there's going to be some secret singing singing in this season, but maybe not. Because we also know you had. Oh my gosh, another musical career which we were listening to.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We were listening to Music Party right before this.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

Oh my God, I've been outed again.

[Maggie Bowles]

We were. We were loving it. But I'm guessing we're not going to hear you sing this season and Only Murders. Or can you tell us?

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

I'm going to actually be reprising my Pajama Party role on Only Murder.

[Maggie Bowles]

Perfect. That's the answer we were looking for.

[Daphne Rubin Vega]

Some people have porn in their background. I have Pajama party.