S4 E4: The Stunt Man (Part 1)

Summary

Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

S4 E4: The Stunt Man (Part 1)

Release Date: September 18, 2024
Host: Michael Cyril Creighton (Howard); with Ryan Tillotson, Maggie Bowles
Notable Guests: Madeline George (Episode Writer), Michael McFadden (Concussions Bartender)

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Overview

This episode dives behind the scenes of Season 4, Episode 4 ("The Stunt Man") of Only Murders in the Building. The hosts and guests examine the episode’s focus on the secretive and tight-knit world of stunt performers—complete with a fictional stuntman bar, the invented tradition of a “stuntman’s funeral,” and zany, layered comedy set pieces. The podcast also explores the writers’ room creativity, enchanting set design, and Paul Rudd’s delightfully Irish turn as stunt double Glenn Stubbins. Notably, the episode shares candid, funny moments with cast and crew, opening a curtain on the process, inspiration, and on-set antics that shape the show’s signature blend of mystery and comedy.

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Episode Recap and Key Plot Points

00:48–02:51

• Charles’s Dream and Paradise Lead:
  • Charles dreams about Saz and constructs a new murder board, adding “paradise”; Oliver and Mabel join the investigation.
• Clues & Locations:
  • Suspicious activity by Vince Fish with a Portuguese flag.
  • Loretta’s Instagram leads trio to “Concussions,” a stuntman bar.
• Meeting Glenn Stubbins:
  • The trio meets Ben Glenroy's Irish stunt double, Glenn Stubbins (Paul Rudd, with an Irish accent).
  • Learn Saz was seeing a chiropractor and experiencing pain before her death.
• Howard & the Dudenoff Apartment:
  • Howard pig-sits and is lured out to a movie audition; hints at a rent control sub-plot.
• Oliver’s Insecurities:
  • Reveals he’s made a finsta (fake Instagram) to chat with Loretta.
• Mabel’s Westies Discovery:
  • Mabel finds her neighbors moving her bed as part of a rent control scheme; learns about Helga, Rudy’s Finnish ex, as the ham radio voice.
• Stuntman’s Funeral:
  • Charles fills in at a stuntman’s funeral and is hit with a real bottle, recalling Saz’s trampoline park dream.
• Showdown at the Stunt School:
  • The trio visits Saz’s planned stunt school and encounters Bev Melon with a gun.

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Writers Room Insights

03:30–06:57

• Season 4 Writing After the Strike:
  • Madeline George describes the post-strike writers’ room as energized and full of creative risk:

    “Every single time we start again, it’s like, can we pull this off again?” (03:41, Madeline George)

• Creating Saz’s World:
  • Jane Lynch’s portrayal of Saz inspired more character exploration.
  • Set decoration went deep: “I wish that you all could see the exquisite set deck... the amazing work the team did filling out all the props in Saz’s apartment.” (05:01, Madeline George)
  • Writers researched real-life stunt communities but also invented aspects for storytelling.

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Building the Stunt World: What's Real and What’s Invented

06:57–09:18

• Stunt Culture:
  • Writers “did a lot of research into stunt communities” but invented the tradition of a “stuntman’s funeral.”

    “The funeral thing is made up... that was the pitch of Alex Bigelow, one of the incredible writers…” (07:41, Madeline George)

• Stunt Dynasties:
  • Real-life families of stunt performers influenced the backstory.
  • Stunt people are “very safety oriented” and “thoughtful about listening to fear.” (08:13-08:44, Madeline George)
• Podcast and Research:
  • Daniel Radcliffe’s podcast with his long-time stunt double “Cunning Stunts” was a favorite research source.

    “I listened to dozens of episodes. I can’t recommend it enough… stunt performers representing all the best accents of the British Isles.” (09:48, Madeline George)

  • Stunt performers all have dream stunts they've never tried, like being set on fire or horse work.

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Paul Rudd as Glenn Stubbins: The Irish Stunt Double

11:14–13:38

• Casting and Character Choices:
  • Paul Rudd’s involvement was never certain, “What a bananas idea… obviously that can't possibly work.” (11:40, Madeline George)
  • The Irish accent was Rudd’s own request:

    "He asked to be Irish, by the way. He was like, can I be Irish?" (12:15, Madeline George)

• Comedic Stunt Scene:
  • Rudd’s commitment to physical comedy:

    “He wanted so badly to throw himself into that dumpster… producers were like, stop, stop, stop, you know, swap in the other person.” (13:06, Madeline George)

• Stunt Choreography:
  • Chris Barnes (stunt coordinator) expanded the stunts beyond the script’s basics.

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Inventing the Stuntman Funeral and Bar Fight

14:07–15:50

• Brawl Inspiration:
  • The idea of a stunt bar and subsequent bar fight set piece grew out of the writers’ room love for big, fun set pieces:

    “Wouldn’t it be great if somehow it could erupt into a massive roadhouse style bar fight... we could watch people smash each other with breakaway furniture?” (14:44, Madeline George)

• Narrative Motivation:
  • The funeral allowed Charles to honor Saz and deepened the emotional themes.

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Favorite Collaborative Comedy Moments

16:09–18:10

• Birth of the “Rat Baffler”:
  • The running gag where Glenn hides on an inversion table turned into a collaborative writers’ room highlight:

    “One of my, like, a peak moment of collaborative delight of my entire life is... they can’t recognize me when I’m upside down. … For me, Rat Baffler is really like peak comedy joy.” (16:50–18:10, Madeline George)

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Rent Control Scheme: Art Imitating (New York) Life

18:10–20:49

• Real-life Rent Control Stories:
  • Madeline George and hosts compare outrageous fictional rent ($200/month) to actual rent control experiences in NYC (about $46/month for an apartment in the ‘90s).

    “It was kind of like, it was like me or the apartment moment. It's real.” (20:00, Madeline George)

  • The subplot’s plausibility is playfully debated.

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Bar Culture & Performance: Actor Michael McFadden Interview

21:49–29:07

• Playing the Bartender at Concussions:
  • McFadden drew from 20 years as a bartender, from high-end to “buckets of blood” dives.

    “I've had plenty of time to find that character.” (23:12, Michael McFadden)

  • On keeping a straight face with comedy legends: “Marty especially, you really have to be in the scene to not break for him because he’s... [going] off script, give him a different line, and he'll just try anything.” (23:55, Michael McFadden)
• Bar Location:
  • “Concussions” was filmed at a real Queens bar, Windjammer.
• Stunt Bar Philosophy:
  • In-joke: Regular actors are “faces” and “deep down, you’re all asses.”

    “We have nothing but contempt for the faces... you know what we say about faces? Deep down, you’re all asses.” (26:13–26:22, Michael McFadden)

• Character Backstory:
  • No set backstory for the bartender; McFadden prefers to “just know the text and listen.”

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On Set with the Cast and Paul Rudd

31:01–34:27

• Working With Comedy Legends:
  • McFadden describes working with Martin Short, Steve Martin, and Selena Gomez as intimidating but exciting.
• Steve Martin's Many Doubles:
  • Reveals there are three Steve Martins on set—himself, his stunt double, and his picture double—plus several more for other characters, leading to an “infinity mirror of Steve Martin.” (32:55, Michael McFadden)
• Paul Rudd’s Kindness:
  • McFadden and Rudd bonded over having the same fencing teacher, and Rudd’s genuine excitement for McFadden’s success.

    “I was up for another job that day... when we broke for lunch, I found out that I booked it and I told him, and he [Paul Rudd] was more excited about it than I was.” (34:04, Michael McFadden)

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The Joys & Trials of Keeping Show Secrets

34:57–36:30

• Difficulty of Secrecy:
  • McFadden jokes about being “one step below SEAL training for torture” when keeping plot secrets from eager friends and restaurant customers.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Set Design:
  • “Even the silverware has Christmas trees on it. How are they doing this? They are magic.” (06:40, Madeline George)
• On Writers’ Room Comedy:
  • “Only four people’s minds all inclined in the same direction, trying to solve this absolutely cuckoo bananas problem...” (16:50-18:10, Madeline George)
• On Stunt Community:
  • “You might think that stunt people are fearless or daredevil types... but actually they’re very safety oriented.” (08:13, Madeline George)
• On Paul Rudd’s Irish Turn:
  • “He asked to be Irish, by the way. He was like, can I be Irish?” (12:15, Madeline George)
• Bar Culture by McFadden:
  • “We're not stunt doubles. The actors are our actor doubles.” (25:42, Michael McFadden)
  • “We have nothing but contempt for the faces... deep down, you're all asses.” (26:13–26:22, Michael McFadden)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:48–02:51 — Episode 4 Plot Recap & Main Beats
• 03:30–06:57 — Writers’ Room & Creating Saz’s World
• 07:21–09:18 — Real vs. Fictional Stunt World Details
• 11:14–13:38 — Paul Rudd Irish Stunt Double & Stunt Scene Creation
• 14:07–15:50 — Building the Bar Fight & Stuntman’s Funeral
• 16:09–18:10 — The “Rat Baffler” Gag & Collaborative Writing
• 18:10–20:49 — Dudenoff Rent Control Realism
• 23:12–26:22 — Interview: Michael McFadden (Bartender at Concussions)
• 31:01–32:55 — Life on Set: Legend Encounters & Multiple Steves
• 32:55–34:27 — Paul Rudd’s Generosity
• 34:57–36:30 — The Pressure of Spoiler Keeping

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains the signature humor, charm, and casual banter of the show, laced with genuine awe for the collaborative process and the behind-the-scenes magic that makes Only Murders in the Building beloved by fans and cast alike. Both guests and hosts openly geek out about the extraordinary attention to detail, the bonds among cast and crew, and the peculiarities and joys of the mystery-comedy genre.

Transcript

[Maggie Bowles]

Straw Hut Media.

[Madeline George]

He wanted so badly to throw himself into that dumpster. And then, like, you know, whatever. The producers were like, stop, stop, stop. You know, like, swap in the other person.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Only Murders in the Building podcast. I'm Ryan Tillotson.

[Maggie Bowles]

And I'm Maggie Bowles.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We're looking behind the scenes and mining for clues as we meet the cast and creators of the Hulu original series, Only Murders in the Building.

[Maggie Bowles]

Today on the show, we're talking all about season four, episode four, the Stuntman. We'll hear from writer Madeline George about where the writers room looked for inspiration into the world of stunts and whose idea it was to make Glenn Stubbins an Irishman.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We'll also hear from actor Michael McFadden about what actor skill he shares with Paul Rudd.

[Maggie Bowles]

But first, a quick recap. And listeners, there are spoilers for episode four, so if you haven't watched, hit pause, go watch and come right back.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Episode four, the Stuntman. We open up on Charles's dream. He's looking for Saz. He gets up at 3am and makes a new murder board, shows it to Oliver and Mabel. He adds paradise to the board because it was in his dream.

[Maggie Bowles]

We see Vince Fish doing something suspicious with a Portuguese flag. And through Oliver's stocking of Loretta on Instagram, the trio discovers that Saz was at a bar called Concussions right before she died.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So the trio goes to the bar, a stuntman's bar, and they start asking a bunch of questions. They meet Glen Stubbins, Ben Glenroy's stunt double.

[Maggie Bowles]

Ben Glenroy.

[Michael McFadden]

Ben's dead, Yeejit.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And they learn that Saz has been seeing a chiropractor.

[Maggie Bowles]

She'd been in pain, apparently, and was planning to retire. And so Dr. Maggie, the chiropractor gives Charles an adjustment and he sees her again in the forest.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Meanwhile, Howard is responsible for pig sitting and squatting in the Dudenoff apartment for Mabel. But someone slips a flyer under the door and lures him out to audition for the movie.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oliver opens up to Mabel about his insecurities with Loretta, and it turns out he's made a finsta of this person named Ronnie so that he can chat with her.

[Ryan Tillotson]

When Mabel gets back to her apartment, she finds the Westies moving her bed. Turns out they are part of a rent control scheme and they might let her in. They're paying only $200 a month.

[Maggie Bowles]

Absolutely crazy. They tell Mabel that Helga, Rudy's ex from Finland, was the voice on the ham radio and that she's crazy. She's the wrong kind of weirdo.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Mabel updates Charles and Oliver and convinces Oliver to kill Ronnie. Not literally.

[Maggie Bowles]

Charles fills in for Szasz in a traditional stuntman's funeral at Concussions. And when he gets hit in the head with a real bottle instead of a breakaway, he remembers Saz's dream of opening a trampoline park, the Saz Pataky Impact Academy.

[Ryan Tillotson]

The trio goes to the place where Saz was building her stunt school, and they find Bev Melon there with a

[Michael McFadden]

gun, someone from show business.

[Madeline George]

Don't move or I'll blow your fucking brains out.

[Michael McFadden]

Oh, my God.

[Maggie Bowles]

We just talked to Richard Kind, which was an absolute delight.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So fun. What a sweet, sweet man.

[Madeline George]

He is a genuinely sweet man. I have a picture of him. He came by the set when we were shooting on the Upper west side. He's like, I just live over there in his shorts and sweat socks. And then he was like, well, I gotta go to Costco. And he left.

[Ryan Tillotson]

This is Madelyn George, the writer of Episode four.

[Maggie Bowles]

How was it coming back into the room for season four after the strike, too? After the strike and after three whole seasons.

[Madeline George]

I mean, you know, I guess there's a. There's a quality of, like, improbable magic to this show, where it's. Even in the first season, there was a sort of, like, this could never work kind of feeling to it. Like, it just. It's just so. As they say, lightning in a bottle. You know, the. The quality of the thing that we. We've been making together. And so every single time we start again, it's like, can we pull this off again? Like, is this going to work? And so I feel like season four was very much like that. We. We really, like. I mean, John Hoffman led us, charged us right off of a Broadway cliff in season three. And it felt a little, like, untoppable in certain ways. Just like once you have Meryl Streep in, like, a spangled hat, like, where do you go from there? But on the other hand, like, there's this also sort of the sky's the limit feeling to. Especially the beginning of breaking one of these seasons. And so, like, being able to, like, throw everything at the wall and have these. Take these huge swings, it was just, like, exhilarating. The beginning of season four was a really exhilarating.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, that's fun.

[Maggie Bowles]

Hi, Pat.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So this season, we really explore Saz. We learn about all of her backstory. We just get to learn about who she is, which we never really got to do. How did you guys decide what to put in there, how to create that world of Saz?

[Madeline George]

I mean, I think that the idea of obviously the character is such a, like, as a one off, even in the first season was such a, like, as I say, like a big swing or a pie in the sky kind of a character move. But I mean, Jane as an actor really inhabited that character and gave us a lot to work with in terms of what kind of swashbuckling, six foot tall lady might be in that particular role. I wish that y' all could see the exquisite set deck, like the amazing work that the team did filling out all of the props in Saz's apartment. I spent some time just like kind of wandering through that set or like looking at like four layers deep of like knickknacks and papers on the desk. The, the. The set decoration team had. They had like, you know, feminist stunt manuals and like calendars from like, you know, a women's only stunt club or whatever. They really filled out the kind of world that this person would have inhabited. And wow. Um, as a writer, it's inspiring to watch whatever, you know, you. You're like in a room with snacks in it and a whiteboard and you're having like thoughts and feelings. And then cut to six months later, like a team of hundreds of people have brought something to 3D life in that way. And it's just like, it's just mind boggling.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We. We've talked to them once or twice before. We should bring them back because Christmas guys room. I mean, there's a few sets that are just pretty mind blowing.

[Madeline George]

Yeah, they're mind blowing. They're stunning. And. And it's like you're seeing them on the dailies or, you know, we were looking on and. And it's like they look incredible. But then when you walk into there and then you open a drawer and you're like, what the. Even the silverware has Christmas trees on it. How are they doing this? They are magic.

[Maggie Bowles]

I love.

[Madeline George]

Sorry, that's really not what you asked me about. But I just have to say, like, it really blew my mind when I was. Yeah, but we did a lot of. As a room. We did a lot of research into stunt communities and we also sort of created our own mythology a little bit just like, you know. But stunt performers are an incredible subculture and they have extremely interesting codes by which they operate and.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Interesting. Can you give me an example? Or like, is that funeral thing a normal thing? Do they have such a community, like

[Michael McFadden]

that you're profiting off her death. Meanwhile, the people who really loved her can't even give her the traditional stuntman's funeral she deserves. What?

[Maggie Bowles]

Why not?

[Michael McFadden]

No body, no funeral.

[Madeline George]

The funeral thing is made up. That was the pitch of Alex Bigelow, one of the incredible writers in the staff. But there are, you know, certainly there's stunt gyms and there's stunt associations and there are stunt dynasties. This is a thing, the thing where Szasz is brought up by a family of stunt performers. That's definitely something that is true. And it's even true on our own set. The stunt coordinator is part of a family of stunt people.

[Maggie Bowles]

Really?

[Madeline George]

I guess it makes sense. It's like it's a little bit like family business. Yeah. If you're that kind of. Well, let me say this. You might think that stunt people are like fearless or daredevil types or something. And of course, that may be a component of it, but actually they're very safety oriented. Like they know better than anybody what. What you need to have in place in order to do these death defying things without. Because they need to be able to get up and walk away and go to work the next day.

[Maggie Bowles]

Right, of course. Yeah.

[Madeline George]

So it's not like free solo, you know what I mean? Where they're just like, how can I push my body to the nth degree? They're very thoughtful about listening to fear and paying attention, what their limits might be.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love that.

[Maggie Bowles]

How deep into researching the stunt community and stunt. The art of stunt, stuntsmanship. I don't know what the word is, but stuntsmanship. How deep did you go into that world either yourself when you were putting this episode together and then in the room as a group.

[Madeline George]

I mean, in the room, people brought in stuff as we were beginning to sort of construct the world. A lot of the sort of bigger things like the stunt bar and stuff like that, that's our creation. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there's a stunt bar somewhere. But we did make that up. But I personally spent a lot of time, like, I got very into this one podcast, which is Daniel Radcliffe, you know, from Harry Potter. He. You might know that famously his stunt double was severely injured on the last film.

[Maggie Bowles]

I didn't know.

[Madeline George]

They have this really interesting relationship. They were really close because this guy had doubled for him for many, many, for many movies in many years. And then he was injured on the set. And so those two have a podcast where they interview stunt perform. And I listened to dozens of episodes I can't recommend it enough, not the least, because they have stunt performers representing all the best accents of the British Isles. There are a lot of Aussies and Scots and Welsh stunt performers on that podcast.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Wow. Wait, just one question on this. Like, is his stunt double. Is his stunt double the same age as him?

[Madeline George]

Roughly?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Like, was he stunting at 10 or what?

[Madeline George]

Yes. And this is the other reason why there are families of stunt people, because there needs to be. I mean, there are sometimes people of short stature who, who play, who do stunts for kids, but also there are young, Young stunt performers. And so, yes, this guy came up sort of with Daniel Radcliffe, and then now he hosts the podcast and then Daniel Radcliffe. Like, they together interview stunt people, and they have an incredible segment at the end of every one of these podcasts where they are like, what's the one stunt you've never done that you've always wanted to do? And every stunt person has, like, they immediately know. They're. They're like, I want to get lit on fire. I want to get thrown off a building. I never done horse work. I've always wanted to do horse work. It's a great world.

[Ryan Tillotson]

How fun.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's amazing. Ben Glenroy.

[Michael McFadden]

Ben's dead. Yeejit. He's gone forever. He'd love to be here, but there's no possible way. You can't come back from the dead, now, can you? I'm Glenn Stubbins. Ben, stunt double.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Did you know when you were writing this that you were gonna get Paul Rudd to play Glen Glenn Stubbins?

[Madeline George]

Yeah. I mean, that, I guess. I don't know at what point it was like, yes, we're doing it. I mean, I know that we were like, what a bananas idea. Like, obviously that can't possibly work. We would never get him. We would never work. And then when it, you know, he's like the gamist of the game actors. And I think this sort of. This. The silliness of it and the. The spectacle of it, it just really appealed to him. Plus, I think he likes to be around Steven Marty.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, I mean, of course.

[Maggie Bowles]

And then with that, I mean, it's. First of all, it's so funny hearing the voiceover him with an Irish accent.

[Madeline George]

He asked to be Irish, by the way. He was like, can I be Irish?

[Maggie Bowles]

That was his idea.

[Madeline George]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's so funny. I love that detail when. When they go outside and he's trying to get his role in the. In the. In the film or whatever, and he starts doing all of those stunts for them.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yes.

[Michael McFadden]

Can you help me get a job on your film? You lost your stunt double, I lost my acting double. We could make each other whole again. I don't need a double. Well, not even one that can do this. Oh, my God.

[Madeline George]

Part of this.

[Maggie Bowles]

I'm curious if you talked through the stunts he might do to impress them or if you were kind of like, he does stunts, and then you kind of let a stunt coordinator figure out what you could get away with in this phase.

[Madeline George]

In the script, it says something like he, like, punches himself in the head and takes a header over a garbage can or something like that. And then Chris Barnes, the stunt coordinator, was like, built out this big, beautiful set piece of choreography. And, I mean, Paul did a bunch of it. Not the part that would threaten, but he was. And he was, like, raring to go. Like, I remember on that set, watching him, like, he wanted so badly to throw himself into that dumpster. And then, like, you know, whatever. The producers were like, stop, stop, stop. You know, like, swap in the other person. Okay.

[Maggie Bowles]

I love the cannonball.

[Madeline George]

The cannonball is amazing. And I was. I was blown away watching the kind of. My background as a writer is in theater, and obviously, like, film stunts are so such their own thing, and yet there's something very theatrical about doing that. Like, what's it called, the cowboy cross or something like that, where, you know, the celebrity runs off camera and then the stunt person runs on camera and you just keep rolling the whole time. And it's like, really? It's like theater magic on film.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love that. Yeah, absolutely. It was. It was hilarious. I had so much fun watching it. To stay on the theme of. Of stunt. Stunt people, you said that you talked about a little bit earlier the. The funeral. Like, you guys made that up. But how did you decide what. How that would. How that would come together? Exactly.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. The details of the stuntman's funeral.

[Michael McFadden]

Is that a real bottle? You set them up.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You print.

[Michael McFadden]

Are you calling me a retro Bailey, you.

[Madeline George]

I do think that when. As soon as we had this thought that, oh, maybe there's a stunt person bar, you know, out in some outer borough, you know, like, place. It ended up being in Hell's Kitchen in the end, but. And then immediately, I think our next thought as a room was like, and wouldn't it be great if somehow it could erupt into a massive roadhouse style bar fight by the end and we could watch people just smash each other with breakaway furniture? Obviously, that would be delightful. How can we make that happen? And I think the thing about the funeral is that it was a chance to do a kind of, you know, a set piece in the bar that also really spoke to the relationship between Charles and Szasz. And SZASZ isn't in the episode very much, partly because we are, like, learning about the world through Glenn Stubbins. Every time I say his name, I'm almost laughing. It's like, he's the guy. He's our guide. He's our guide into this kind of underworld. And Saz is appearing in dreams. And so the chance for Charles to do something meaningful for her. I think the funeral kind of hit all those. It ticked all those boxes for us.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We know that you were tasked with writing this specific episode, but do you have a favorite of from this season? Like, a favorite moment, joke bit?

[Maggie Bowles]

Because we know it's such a collaborative process that, you know, you have this episode, but everybody's working on everything, right?

[Madeline George]

It's so collaborative. And in fact, from this episode, I have to admit that, like, not just one of my favorite bits, but one of my, like, a peak moment of collaborative delight of my entire life is the moment where Glenn. They go into the back room. Dr. Maggie is the chiropractor and has the little room, and they go back there, and Glenn is like, I'm gonna get on the rat baffler. They can't recognize me when I'm upside down. And he hops on this inversion table, and he flips upside down.

[Michael McFadden]

Oh, I don't want an adjustment. I just want to ask a few questions. Okay, well, don't mind me. I'll be hiding on the rat baffler. They can't recognize me when I'm upside down.

[Madeline George]

Just to say, like, the way that that came about in the room, we were like, what's gonna. How is he gonna be part of this conversation? We were trying to think about, like, you know, he needed to be in the scene. How is he gonna be used? Rob Chabowsky, one of the great comic writers of all time, was like, what if he's on, like, an inversion table and he's, like, hanging upside down? And then Ben Smith, one of the great comic writers of all time, was like, yeah, he could be like, they can't recognize me when I'm upside down. And then Joshua Alan Griffith, one of the great comic writers of all time, is like, it could be called. He could say, I'll be on the. I'll be on the Rat Deceiver. And then I was like, I'll be on the rat Baffler. And it was like, boom, boom, boom. That happened in like the course of like four seconds. And then playwright me was just like, oh my gosh, like, what if you could write jokes like this, you know, for the theater too, like that only four people's minds all inclined in the same direction, trying to solve this absolutely cuckoo bananas problem, which is how to get Irish stunt double Paul Rudd, who's in a fight with some imaginary rats in the scene, but not interfering, interfering with the emotional trajectory of the Steve Martin character. Like, that was just like a spectacular. So for me, rap Baffler is really like peak comedy joy. I couldn't. It was one of the great days of my life.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's great.

[Maggie Bowles]

Another thing that happens in this episode is we uncover the rent control scheme, the Dudenoff rent control scheme. And these, these Westies are paying like $200 a month for their apartment, which is crazy. And I was just curious, like, what is the craziest rent control rent that you've heard of someone having.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Have you heard of $200?

[Madeline George]

Well, I mean, when I lived in, when I first moved to New York, it was the, you know, the mid-90s, and I lived in the West Village in a rent controlled single room where, which I always say, I. I had this long balsa wood stick and I could do everything I needed to do in my ap. Like, I could turn on the oven, I could open the door, I could press the buttons on my vcr. Yes, it was a vcr. Like it was a very small apartment is what I'm trying to say. And famously, the guy downstairs from me who. The kind of apartment where you're like, how many blankets does this guy have taped over his windows? You know what I mean? Like that kind of apartment. And he was paying 47amonth because he had been in this little basement studio since, you know, whatever, the 60s or something.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So this is possible. The $200 could be like that. $46 would still be maybe under that now, you know, what is it, 3%?

[Madeline George]

I love that you're like stress testing only murders in the building for plausibility. That's so sweet to me.

[Maggie Bowles]

I mean, no, I just like, it makes me wonder, like, my brother, for example, has a rent control department in Santa Monica. He's thinking about moving to Austin. But he's been here, he's been in the apartment for like 15 years. And he's like, I. But whatever I do, I'm going to keep the apartment. Because this is like, this is the equivalent of owning property is having a rent controlled Apartment. It's the closest we'll get to homeownership.

[Madeline George]

You know, it's really. It's the real thing. I mean, my partner and I are happily married now, but, like, in the beginning of our relationship, she was like. I was like, we should move in together. And she was like, well, I. I can't leave my one bedroom apartment in the east village because it's so cheap, because it was rent controlled. And it was like. It was kind of like. It was like me or the apartment moment. It's real.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, it's very real. It's great.

[Madeline George]

It's very real.

[Michael McFadden]

We're illegally subletting rent controlled apartments. We're not a cult. It's a rent control scheme. Although I have suggested getting matching bathrobes in the past.

[Madeline George]

Every apartment on this floor was rented

[Ryan Tillotson]

by professor Dunlop years ago. $200 rent.

[Madeline George]

Gosh, $200 rent.

[Maggie Bowles]

Can you imagine in New York City? I wish.

[Madeline George]

Come on.

[Maggie Bowles]

Like that's something to kill for, right? Exactly. So, yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Wow.

[Maggie Bowles]

Suspicious. Indeed. Indeed. Very suspicious. We are also his. His first question was, how is Dudenov making any money off of this? Yeah, he's only charging $200 for rent.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And that's what I didn't understand. So, you know.

[Maggie Bowles]

Well, did you ever consider that Dudenoff might just be a nice person? No. The thought never crossed her mind.

[Ryan Tillotson]

No, but interesting.

[Madeline George]

Interesting.

[Maggie Bowles]

I would consider it. I would consider that he's just trying to take care of his people, his family.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love that.

[Madeline George]

That's a good point.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's very sweet.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. You see the good in people.

[Madeline George]

I see that.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's good. That was Lily and Rebelo and Oliveira, daughter in the sauce family. I guess we should try harder to see the good in people.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Agreed. After the break, we'll Talk to Michael McFadden, who plays the tough guy bartender at Concussions.

[Maggie Bowles]

Welcome back. We're talking about season four, episode four. And now a new character in the season, Michael McFadden. He plays the bartender at Concussions.

[Michael McFadden]

What are you really here for?

[Maggie Bowles]

We were hoping we could ask a few questions about Sas Pataki.

[Michael McFadden]

I'm not talking to you. Well, maybe my friend Mr. Lincoln will change your mind. Mr. Abraham Lincoln.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You're quite intimidating when we first see you at the bar.

[Maggie Bowles]

You are.

[Michael McFadden]

Well, look, I really don't have any tattoos.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's good. Those were intense sleeves you had. So, yeah, you are. You look a lot friendlier here than you did there, will be honest.

[Michael McFadden]

That's. Well, that's acting.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Acting.

[Michael McFadden]

This podcast I've actually listened to everything through twice.

[Maggie Bowles]

Whoa.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, my God.

[Michael McFadden]

You're one night a week at that. Well, I work at a restaurant. I'm living the, I'm living the dream as an actor. Being a waiter.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Michael McFadden]

One night a week I drive delivery for about a four hour shift. So that gets me through a lot of the, A lot of the podcast here.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Did. Well, let's talk about that scene. You know.

[Michael McFadden]

Sure.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Has anything like that ever happened to you in real life?

[Maggie Bowles]

Because we know you, you, you mentioned you. You do those, those actory jobs.

[Michael McFadden]

Well, yeah, I mean, I was, I was a bartender for a good 20 years in all different kinds of places, from a Michelin star rated place in the theater district in Manhattan to buckets of blood in Brooklyn. So I've had plenty of time to find that character.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. So has anyone ever come in with, I don't know, five, six dollars and tried to get information?

[Michael McFadden]

I'd rather that, you know, a lot of them have come in with no money.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Was it hard to. I would have a very hard time keeping a straight face around those, around those two specifically. But I mean, like, how, how's yours? How's your game?

[Michael McFadden]

Well, they've been, you know, they've been idols of mine for 50 years. I started watching SNL when I was 5 and saw Marty on SCTV and saw Steve hosting Saturday Night Live when it was a big deal to stay up till 11:30 and watch SNL. So, I mean, the moment was huge. So there, like I, I prepared, over. Prepared for the scene. Like I. My process is always to prepare to a degree where I know the text inside and out and I know the other lines. But it was especially important to not just be well prepared. But I wanted to impress them, you know, so. But I did, you know, Marty especially, you really have to be in the scene to not break for him because he's, you know, they're trying all kinds of different things. They'll go off script, give him a different line, and he'll just try anything. But the moment is so huge that you know that the grab, you know, you're aware of the gravity. You don't want to mess up the takes. And there was a lot to do that day.

[Maggie Bowles]

Mm.

[Michael McFadden]

So you know that it's gonna take at least until lunch before they turn the cameras around. So you don't want to waste their time by breaking.

[Maggie Bowles]

Right. So tell us about the bar. Concussions is the name of it.

[Michael McFadden]

Concussions. It's a real bar. It's a real bar in Ridgewood, Queens. Called Windjammer.

[Maggie Bowles]

Windjammer. Not Concussions. I was like, there's a real bar called Concussions? No. So. So let's talk about that. We come into Concussions. We've got Charles, Oliver and Mabel, and then we get a surprise visit from what looks like Ben Glenroy, but is not. So can you tell us about. About that?

[Michael McFadden]

Yes. Well, evidently, we're friends, me and Glenn Stubbins. And I am the keeper of the bar where all the stuntmen hang out. We're not stunt doubles. The actors are our actor doubles.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, the faces.

[Maggie Bowles]

Faces.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

No faces.

[Michael McFadden]

Faces. Yes, the faces. They're like the suits.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Michael McFadden]

So we. We have. We have nothing but contempt for the faces. Saz Pataki was my stunt double. Not here. And here.

[Madeline George]

You.

[Michael McFadden]

Saz's acting double. You're just a face. We don't like faces. You know what we say about faces? Deep down, you're all asses.

[Maggie Bowles]

We know we have you in episode four in Concussions, but we're wondering, do we. Do we see you again? Do we get to come back to this bar?

[Michael McFadden]

Well, no, I'm actually taken out of the bar.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh.

[Michael McFadden]

Yes. So they see me out of context, and they're.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Michael McFadden]

They're like, hey, it's that bartender.

[Maggie Bowles]

Something to look forward to.

[Michael McFadden]

Yeah. And John. When we wrapped on episode four, John had hinted that if things go a certain way with the writing, that I would be brought back. But it. I feel really honored because it felt like I was kind of shoehorned in there. They didn't really need to. So it was. I was ecstatic. And the fact that he dropped that hint had me, like, counting the days on the calendar. Like, where could they be? They haven't wrapped the season yet, and they haven't called me. But when I got the call, I was like, wow. And they gave me some really cool stuff to do.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, that's so exciting. Was there any backstory written on the page? For. For.

[Michael McFadden]

Okay. No, it's. No, it's. It was just a guy in his. I get the breakdown. Said bartender, 40s, 50s. I'm 50s. So I was on the. I was on the high end of that. And it's at a stuntman bar. You know, I'm. I stay in shape, but I'm not. I don't look like a stuntman. And I knew some guys that read for this, and they looked the part.

[Ryan Tillotson]

See, I had assumed you were, like, an old. Like, you were, like, stuntman, like, retired and opened up a bar or something. That's Kind of where my brain took it all.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, but as a backstory.

[Ryan Tillotson]

As the backstory, yeah.

[Michael McFadden]

Yeah. I'm not, you know, I'm not one for backstories. Like, I've heard some guys do that. They'll write a backstory, and I don't know that it reads or helps. I just, you know, just know the text and listen, and you'll be fine. It's like. Because if the writing is brilliant as it is here, all the work is done for you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, it was actually, you know, you complimented the writers, but I think they must have liked you as well, because that's. Actually. We got your name on a list, and that's why we reached out, because the writers.

[Michael McFadden]

Oh, wow.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Michael McFadden]

Well, you know, I'm embarrassed not to know her name, but one of the writers, and I'm assuming it was the one who wrote my dialogue back in the video village, as I was walking through was like, wow, that's really good. And that. So I kind of knew I was doing something right. Everything starts with knowing I'm working with Steve Martin and Martin Short and Selena Gomez.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Madeline George is. Who is. Who wrote episode four. So I bet you that's the one that was there for you.

[Michael McFadden]

Yeah. I'm sorry, Madeline, that I. I was. I was at a disadvantage because I felt. I felt out of. Like a fish out of water just going. Just walking into that entire situation.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Michael McFadden]

I was really humbled.

[Madeline George]

No, I mean, it was like, he was so good that we were like, how can we. How can we find more for this person? I mean, it's really a lesson. And, like, be amazing when you go on your set because writers are still working.

[Maggie Bowles]

That is Madeline George again, writer of the episode.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. Were you.

[Madeline George]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You were there on the set while they were shooting for.

[Madeline George]

For a lot of it. Yeah. This year I really made an effort, and it's, you know, it's an incredible learning experience for writers to be part of that if they haven't done producing work. But also, it's just, like, incredibly fun. On the only Murder set, there's just a lot of fun stuff going on.

[Maggie Bowles]

I can imagine.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And when you're there on set, are you people constantly, like, looking to you like, do we change this? Or, like, is that kind of as a thing that's happening?

[Madeline George]

Yeah. Well, I mean, again, very collaboratively, like, if people like Martin Short and Steve Martin and Paul Rudder on set, they are themselves being like, what about this? What about this? What about this? And, like, it's not that you would be like, yes, no. Yes. No Steve Martin, but more like I'd be like, yeah, incredible. Or what about this? Or you try to like put your own spin on it. Or anyway, just like get in the mix with those geniuses.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Everyone's kind of spitfiring ideas and then you try them.

[Madeline George]

And then the director of episode 404, Chris Koch, he's just like, he's really brilliant and he also has ideas and he's like writing on his feet and encouraging other people to also write on their feet. Very positive environment.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Back to Michael McFadden, the bartender. Do you think he gets a name later or does he just stay bartender?

[Maggie Bowles]

It's a great question. Do you have any favorite movies roles from Steve Martin or Martin Short?

[Michael McFadden]

Oh, well, I mean, I saw Steve Martin's first play that he put up. He wasn't in it, but it was Picasso at the La Pane. And I can quote some lines from that. But one of my favorite. I like him when he's serious. Like when Steve Martin's turn in David Mamet's the Spanish Prisoner. That was. Yeah. And I love watching them be interviewed.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Michael McFadden]

Honestly. And like. And now it's like, you know, I don't know them. I've worked a total of three days with them. But, you know, just having like feeling like, oh, they're my buddies.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Three days. What were the three days? So I assumed it would be two days. It was two scenes.

[Michael McFadden]

No, well, there was. There's. Well, Steve was in two days. The first day in episode four is the trio walking into the bar. And then on. I had a three day contract work. 2. So the next day, or it was a Monday and then a Wednesday, I went back to Concussions or the Windjammer and we had the memorial for Szas.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Right, Right.

[Michael McFadden]

And Steve was. And there are apparently three Steves. There's Steve himself, there's his stunt double, and then there's his picture double. So there's two. There's three of them walking around on any given day. So you haven't had your coffee.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's absolutely absurd. For this season especially too, because you've got three Steve Martins, plus you've got Eugene Levy, who I assume has.

[Michael McFadden]

And Eugene Levy probably has two of those too. So there's six Steve Martins.

[Maggie Bowles]

And then you have Saz, who also has two.

[Madeline George]

Probably her stand up at least.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And she's got two, at least nine Steves.

[Madeline George]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

This is so many Steve Martin.

[Michael McFadden]

It's like an infinity mirror of Steve Martin.

[Maggie Bowles]

Exactly.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay, we gotta ask John about that next time.

[Maggie Bowles]

We do have to.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. Wow.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay, so that. That reminded us about Saz's memorial, which is absolutely absurd.

[Madeline George]

Yeah.

[Michael McFadden]

And it's. And it makes sense. I mean, it's not really all that absurd. Like. Oh, I could see that because stunt people have their superstitions and their, you know, and. And all their own motivations, so I could definitely see that happening. That was. That was really cool because I got to actually have two lines with Paul. Oh, yeah, yeah. We got. And we. And. And that was a great thing because I, you know, he's. He really is as sweet a guy as everyone says he is.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh.

[Michael McFadden]

And we had a lot of. A lot of, like, education in common.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, really?

[Michael McFadden]

Or training in common. We think we had the same. The same fencing teacher.

[Maggie Bowles]

You guys.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Both.

[Michael McFadden]

It was so long ago. It's, like, going on 30 years ago. Like, I knew that it was Joe Daly, but he wasn't quite sure. But he's had a lot more names to remember than I ever have.

[Maggie Bowles]

Right.

[Michael McFadden]

And. No, but he. He was just a great guy. And I was up for another job that day, and when we broke for lunch, I found out that I booked it and I told him, and he was more excited about it than I was. Like, that's great. I was like, wow. I'm. I'm gonna let that sink in.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I'll be excited, too.

[Maggie Bowles]

I love that. The most random thing to have in common with Paul Rudd, you know, the same fencing. So hyper specific, you know, that's great. So with the secrecy around Paul Rudd returning for this season, what has it been like to, you know, know these things about this show that's, like, this, like, wildly popular show, but, like, have to keep.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

All of these secrets. Like, what's that?

[Michael McFadden]

Like, most difficult was like, you know, because just about anybody you tell that you. You're on the show is a huge fan of the show. I mean, if you look at the. The numbers for the. The Hulu, it's the Hulu trailer itself, not all the parasitic twins that have latched onto it. But it's got 11 million views in five days. So there's a lot of people that are invested in the show, and they're all, so what happens? And I'm like, well, I can't tell you that. And these are, like, random customers at my restaurant. Yeah. Because, you know, everyone kind of knows what I do, and it's a small family place, so everyone knows what I do. And they. They're all asking, well, what have, you know, have you gotten any jobs lately? Are you Working, which is the rudest question you can ask an actor, but they're not actors, so they don't know this. Yeah, I'm working here. I'm serving you spaghetti. So they want to know, but then they don't. You know, they know. I was like, well, if I, you know, I have enough information where I, you know, I could, I could ruin everything.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But, you know, so that's why I'm going to ask you. So you know. You know the. You know?

[Michael McFadden]

Yes. Don't tell me I know. No, I'm not gonna tell you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I, I just wanted to know if you knew.

[Michael McFadden]

No, I have, like, I'm like, one step below SEAL training for torture. I, I, I, I would never reveal it. Not under, not under waterboarding.

[Madeline George]

Good, good.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's good. That's. I think that's probably why they brought you back. About you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. That podcast Meline mentioned with Daniel Radcliffe and his stunt double.

[Maggie Bowles]

Or should we say David Holmes and his acting double?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Right. That podcast is called Cunning Stunts.

[Maggie Bowles]

We'll be back in a few days with the Saz Pataki, Jane lynch, plus Michael Cyril Crichton, who plays Howard, and of course, John Hoffman.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Please send your thoughts and theories to us at. Only [e-mail] Take a minute to subscribe, rate the show, follow us and leave a review if you enjoy the show.

[Maggie Bowles]

Only Murders in the Building podcast is a production of Straw Hat Media, hosted and produced by Ryan Tillotson and Maggie Bowles. Associate producer is Stephen Markley, original music by Kyle Merritt, and only Murders in the Building theme music by Siddhartha Khosla. Assistant editor is Daniel Ferreira and production assistant is Caroline Mendoza.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Thank you so much to Madeline George and Michael McFadden for talking with us this week, and a big, big thanks, as always, to John Hoffman and the entire Hulu team.

[Maggie Bowles]

See you soon.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Sorry, there's a cat behind me. It's okay.

[Madeline George]

That cat is beautiful.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I know. She's just, like, walking on our chairs.

[Madeline George]

She's ridiculous. She's stunting.

[Ryan Tillotson]

She's stunting.

[Maggie Bowles]

Good job, eg. Good job. She did great.

[Ryan Tillotson]

The subreddit is gonna go wild.

[Maggie Bowles]

They are. They really are.

[Madeline George]

Listen, those people run the world. We all know it. That's the true deep state is Reddit.

[Maggie Bowles]

Hannah Swinebinder.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's good. That's a good one. We talked to a few of the Westies. I don't know how much you know about the.

[Michael McFadden]

The Westies over there, not the Irish mobsters.

[Maggie Bowles]

Not the Irish mobsters. You're our first Irish mobster.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

There's a dog mayor in Idlewild.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

I had no idea.

[Michael McFadden]

Well, there's a goat mayor somewhere else.