S4 E7: Valley of the Dolls (Part 2)

Summary

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Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

S4 E7: Valley of the Dolls (Part 2)

Date: October 11, 2024
Host: Michael Cyril Creighton (Howard), with Ryan Tillotson and Maggie Bowles
Guests: Shari Springer Berman & Robert Pulcini (Directors), John Hoffman (Showrunner/Co-Creator), Patrick Howe (Production Designer), Molly Shannon, and community/Redditor insights

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Episode Overview

This episode continues the behind-the-scenes exploration of Season 4, Episode 7: "Valley of the Dolls". Hosts Ryan and Maggie welcome a star-studded roster to dissect the pivotal "doll house" episode, share on-set stories, and celebrate fan theories. Discussions rage from the creative inception of the episode's iconic doll collection to Meryl Streep's unforgettable reaction, Molly Shannon's comedic craft, and Melissa McCarthy's transformative performance as Doreen.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Doll House: Conception and Execution

• Homage and Inspiration

  • The episode title takes direct inspiration from the film "Valley of the Dolls," both for its camp and emotional undertones.
    • "When I was young, I was like, oh, this is good. And then I was like, oh, this is amazingly campy."
      — Shari Springer Berman [01:39]
  • The show inserts layers of meaning by connecting the dolls to Doreen’s loneliness, using the collection as a physical metaphor for her missing daughters.
    • "It's a story always about loneliness…what you're missing. ...That's the thing I can point to for Doreen—her house is filled with dolls, sort of filling in the blank of the love that's lost."
      — John Hoffman [07:00-08:40]

• Design & Logistics

  • Over 200 dolls populate the set—some life-sized, custom-built and others from expert collectors.
    • "All of those life size dolls are all custom built for us at, you know, a very modest expense. ...It was really more than I wanted. ...I kind of wanted to pull back a little... John was like, 'Don't touch a thing.'”
      — Diana Burton [05:20-05:47]
  • Crew had fun (and occasional scares) with creepy, human-sized dolls lining hallways and corners.
    • "There was a hallway...You would just, you know, and you were like—who the hell is sitting there? And it’s just one of these damn dolls."
      — Diana Burton [05:56-06:26]
  • The outstanding Meryl Streep doll was intentionally crafted—and freaked Meryl out in person.
    • "When they showed up with that doll in braids that looked just like Meryl Streep, I nearly fell over. ...She screamed. She literally screamed. And then we all took about 4,000 pictures of her with it."
      — John Hoffman [09:51-10:56]

2. The Magic of Melissa McCarthy as Doreen

• Character Genesis

  • Doreen was written as a character battling loneliness, and Melissa McCarthy’s real-life love of dolls added a serendipitous layer.
    • "When I was telling Melissa about that part...she said, 'You know, I do have dolls myself.'"
      — John Hoffman [11:37]

• Performance and Improvisation

  • Melissa McCarthy delivered her Doreen with improvisational brilliance, including improvising the now fan-favorite cocktail, the "Sweaty Betty."

    • "Melissa McCarthy came up with the Sweaty Betty and went deep on, you know, can we get some Crystal Light? ...Naming it the Sweaty Betty was a biggie brought on by her."
      — John Hoffman [13:30-14:11]
    • Notable quote:

      "This is mostly entirely vodka and Crystal Light. ...Named it after my dear friend, also named Betty, who also happens to sweat like a pig."
      — Meryl Streep as Doreen [14:35]

  • Directors raved about her dynamic range:

    • "She is a brilliant dramatist. There’s a very serious, heart-rending scene between her and Steve Martin, and she's amazing in it."
      — Shari Springer Berman [15:06]

3. The Craft of Cutting Comedy

• Edit Challenges
  • The improv overflow from Melissa McCarthy and others made editing a "kill your darlings" situation.
    • "This one was particularly challenging...you have to kill things that are funny, you know, and to keep it going. …So much, I mean, it was a well of material."
      — Shari Springer Berman & Robert Pulcini [17:48-18:02]

4. Loretta & Oliver’s (Meryl Streep & Martin Short) Tender Engagement

• Directors discuss the genuine chemistry and how French over-the-shoulder shots emphasized romance.
  • "I mean, they have so much chemistry...there is a natural sweetness between them...there's gonna be magic with them."
    — Robert Pulcini [18:28-19:00]
  • "I'm proposing to you, Oliver. I want to marry you."
    — Meryl Streep as Loretta [19:53-20:02]

5. Molly Shannon as Bev Melon: Playing Drunk and Playful

• Embodying Bev

  • Molly Shannon reflects on how she and her character are both “on top of things,” and her natural comedic instincts drive the scenes.
    • "She was so on top of just, like, giving the right links for the recording..."
      — Hosts discussing Molly Shannon [21:31]
  • Shannon and John Hoffman recall their decades-long friendship and heart-to-hearts about Hollywood careers.
    • "The luckiest guy in the world just got luckier because you became available."
      — John Hoffman quoting advice to Molly Shannon [23:43]

• Mindset and Method

  • Playing drunk:
    • "When you play drunk, you're always trying to act more straight...You're trying not to act drunk. ...People become very, like, they're just focused on that one person's face and everything else is a blur."
      — Molly Shannon [28:43]
  • Organic moments with co-stars, especially improvising reactions with Meryl Streep and affection with Selena Gomez.
    • "Selena will let me do anything...She's so easygoing and goes with the flow and she's so great. And of course, Meryl's like that too."
      — Molly Shannon [32:54-33:20]

• On Career Longevity

  • "It's a hustle for everyone…stay in the game, stay at it. ...A lot of people give up on those dreams...That was always my positive philosophy."
    — Molly Shannon [36:04-37:49]

6. Connections, Easter Eggs & Fan Theories

• Braided Hair Easter Egg

  • Listeners spotted that the trio’s braided hair was the main Easter egg—acknowledged after a deluge of correction emails.
    • "Thank you all for correcting me. ...We now know what the actual Easter egg was. It was the braids."
      — Maggie Bowles [39:40-39:49]

• Theory Round-Up

  • Listeners speculate about suspects including Vince Fish (a 'red herring'), Uma (collector motives), and even posit that Detective Williams could be responsible for the overarching crimes.
    • Left-handed traits and police skills make her a compelling suspect for the most rabid Reddit sleuths.
      — [45:02-49:01]
  • Fans also speculate about secret “Taylor Swift” dolls, discrepancies in alibis, and every little production detail.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the horror of the dolls:

  "There was a pile...I screamed. It was terrifying."
  — Shari Springer Berman [02:27]

• On the Meryl Streep doll:

  "She screamed. She literally screamed. And then we all took about 4,000 pictures of her with it."
  — John Hoffman [10:56]

• On Melissa McCarthy's improvisation:

  "Melissa McCarthy came up with the Sweaty Betty and went deep on, you know, can we get some Crystal Light?"
  — John Hoffman [14:11]

  "This is mostly entirely vodka and Crystal Light. ...Named it after my dear friend, also named Betty, who also happens to sweat like a pig."
  — Meryl Streep as Doreen [14:35]

• On cutting great material:

  "You have to kill things that are funny, you know, and to keep it going. ...It's hard because so much...it was a well of material."
  — Shari Springer Berman [17:48-18:14]

• On Loretta and Oliver's engagement:

  "I'm proposing to you, Oliver. I want to marry you."
  — Meryl Streep as Loretta [19:53-20:02]

• On acting 'drunk':

  "When you play drunk, you're always trying to act more straight...People become very, like, they're just focused on that one person's face and everything else is a blur."
  — Molly Shannon [28:43]

• On acting philosophy:

  "I would say I try to approach everything [acting] like that. Loose. I don't overly plan it all. ...I would like to be in the moment."
  — Molly Shannon [30:48-30:52]

• On career longevity:

  "Just stay in the game. Stay at it. ...Enjoy where you are and being creative...That alone is, like, really good."
  — Molly Shannon [36:04-37:49]

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Reddit & Listener Theories (Fan Segment Highlights)

• Suspects:
  • Vince Fish as a red herring, Uma (mysterious collector), Detective Williams (left-handed, NYPD resources), Howard (always present at key moments).
• Easter Eggs:
  • "Braids" spotted on the trio through a window.
• Details:
  • Taylor Swift doll speculation, window inconsistencies, and connections to past plot points.
• Notable Reddit Quote:

  "Not your fucking friend. Really sounds like something [Detective Williams] would say. And finally, she's a lefty."
  — EastLibrary536 [45:02+]

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Behind-the-Scenes Delights

• Crew pranks and improvisational gems abounded, with Martin Short "doing all kinds of crazy things with the dolls."
  — Robert Pulcini [50:06]

• Molly Shannon fangirls about working with Meryl Streep:

  "It was a real bucket list to get to perform with Meryl Streep and get to know her. ...I went back to my hotel room that night and did a little dance."
  — Molly Shannon [38:29]

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Final Thoughts

This behind-the-scenes episode is packed with laughter, craft secrets, and genuine affection among cast and crew. From the origin of the episode’s many, many dolls to the magic of improvisation, the Only Murders team celebrates the heart and humor at the series’ core. Listeners are left with new clues, teases for the finale, and a rich tapestry of fan theories to mull over until next week.

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For more:

• Email your theories: onlymurdersrawhutmedia.com
• Reddit segment: Hosted by Hannah, fan theories always welcome!
• Next up: More behind-the-scenes after the next episode drops.

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Transcript

[Ryan Tillotson]

Straw Hut Media.

[Molly Shannon]

It was a real bucket list to get to perform with Meryl Streep and get to know her. And I just could. I went back to my hotel room that night and was like, I think I did a little, like, dance.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Hello, and welcome to the Only Murders in the Building podcast. I'm Ryan Tillotson.

[Maggie Bowles]

And I'm Maggie Bowles. And we are looking behind the scenes and mining for clues as we meet the cast and creators of the Hulu original series, Only Murders in the Building.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Today on the show, we're continuing our conversation all about season four, episode seven, the Valley of the Dolls.

[Maggie Bowles]

We'll hear from husband and wife directing team Sherry Springer Berman and Robert Pulcini, showrunner and co creator John Hoffman, production designer Patrick Howe, and the amazing Molly Shannon.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Today, we'll talk about the dolls.

[Maggie Bowles]

So many dolls.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Meryl Streep's reaction to the Loretta doll. We'll talk about Doreen's signature cocktail, the Sweaty Betty. And we'll talk about Bev Melon's breaking

[Maggie Bowles]

point, because sometimes a big boss lady has to throw back a few beers.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Let's start with Bob and Sherry, who directed this episode and also episode eight.

[Maggie Bowles]

So talk to us about the dolls. The episode is called Valley of the Dolls. There are literally quite a lot of dolls. What can you tell us about that?

[Ryan Tillotson]

We also.

[Diana Burton]

Valley.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Have you seen Valley of the Dolls?

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Absolutely. It's actually a movie I've seen several times.

[Molly Shannon]

Really?

[Sherry Springer Berman]

I'm like a weird Valley of the Doll.

[Robert Pulcini]

And it was enough. It was enough for me.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

I saw when I was younger and I really kind of liked it because it was like these young women moving to New York who wanted to be in the, you know, Hollywood, and I mean, be in the show biz and then they go to Hollywood. And then I saw it as an adult because it was so camp to understand the camp of it. Like, when I was young, I was like, oh, this is good. And then I was like, oh, this is amazingly camping.

[Robert Pulcini]

I like, beyond the Valley of the Dolls.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, that's beyond

[Maggie Bowles]

that.

[Robert Pulcini]

That's more my speed.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's episode eight, right?

[Robert Pulcini]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

I remember. So we came in and it was just, you know, she has this insane, like, extreme doll collection. But nothing could prepare us for what.

[John Hoffman]

What.

[Maggie Bowles]

And.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

And it. I remember the first time I started to see them because they were being made. I think Patrick had a lot of them made. They. They were huge, you know, like human, almost human size. And we were in the. We were on the stage shooting, and I walked by and there Was like a pile. It was like. I screamed. It was terrifying. There was like a pile of them and I was like. And then they just got more and more of them and you just couldn't stop, like, looking at them and all. They would. Some of them had, like, little matching purses. One had a little dog, remember, with a little leash.

[Robert Pulcini]

I had a running joke with our AD Becky. I kept, like, taking pictures of the terrific dolls that I would come across and just taxi them to her all day, and she would do the same to me.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

They were literally back and forth for like the whole shoot.

[Robert Pulcini]

Anytime I'd get asked a question, I would just respond with a doll face.

[Ryan Tillotson]

One of them looked like Meryl Streep though, right? Like, that was.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

That was. That was quite intentional. They definitely got the Meryl Streep look alike, which was really good.

[Molly Shannon]

It was.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

And she was like, wow, when she

[Robert Pulcini]

first saw that doll. That was fun.

[Maggie Bowles]

Oh, I can imagine what was she. Did she know that she was gonna walk in to see a little Meryl Streep doll or.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It was like life size almost.

[Robert Pulcini]

Yeah. I think she. I think someone had prepared her. Pretty freaked. She was still pretty freaked out.

[Maggie Bowles]

I mean, rightly so.

[Robert Pulcini]

Yeah. As you can imagine, Marty was doing all kinds of crazy things with the dolls.

[Maggie Bowles]

Since they mentioned Patrick Howe, the production designer.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Emmy winning production designer.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yes. We had to ask him about the dolls. And it turns out there were some doll experts on the crew.

[Diana Burton]

Thankfully, Diana Burton's mother was one of these crazy doll people. So she had a lot. So Diana had familiarity and access to a lot of the. A lot of small, normal collector sized dolls.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But okay, not the life size, like Meryl Streep doll.

[Diana Burton]

No, that's all me. That's all me. Like Kolovich, my decorator, finding a sort. Finding a place that would make those for us. So all of those life size dolls are all custom built for us at, you know, a very modest expense. And we said facetiously and. But so. So it was great that she found that, because that was a troubling thing because for some reason there was. You know, John had said all along there would be. This house would have dolls in it.

[Maggie Bowles]

And.

[Diana Burton]

And then it sort of morphed into yeah, and they're like adult size and they're creepy and, you know, and then. So Mila was like, where are we gonna get these? Because that's what's really unusual. I mean, there's a whole world of doll collecting, but usually not life size. I mean, not adult size anyway.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You know, I mean, the dolls.

[Maggie Bowles]

Maybe not many.

[Diana Burton]

Yeah, yeah, well, exactly that. We had a. You know. Well, kind of an infinite number. It's like over 200, but I. You know what I mean? They're everywhere. So it was really more than I wanted. It was like I kind of wanted to pull back a little. Like, come on, John. You know, after we dressed it all in, it was like, come on, can I take a few away? I think we get the idea. And he was like, don't touch a thing.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But it's so funny because as soon as anyone sits anywhere, it's like a doll leans up against them. It does add to the comedy a lot.

[Diana Burton]

Yeah, yeah. And even and crew and people were like, at night when the lights are out on, you know, maybe there's just work lights on, ghost lights on here and there, but there's not set lights on. There was a hallway where. With doll in her chair in a corner with a door right in this hallway. And the feet were kind of poking out. You know, like cross legs kind of poking out. You would just, you know, and you were like. You walk by and you start like, who the hell is sitting there? You know? And it's like, it's just one of these damn dolls.

[Ryan Tillotson]

If you're wondering who to blame for all the dolls, John Hoffman is probably the one. Maybe I shouldn't laugh.

[Maggie Bowles]

No, I think it's. I think it's fair. We should all blame John Hoffman for the dolls.

[Ryan Tillotson]

In an earlier episode, he talked to us about the fact that the show is odd.

[Maggie Bowles]

Here's John.

[John Hoffman]

This is another one. I guess now I'm giving myself up in the oddness way, but. But I do remember thinking this one came from putting that character of Doreen together and thinking, you know, it's a story always about loneliness. It's a story about what you're missing. It's about where the connective tissue got separated and all of that. And when we hear story, you know, as brilliantly funny as Melissa is, as Doreen, I think she just kind of decimates you when she's with Charles and she tells her story and she talks about that sort of loneliness and all of it comes around again in a very real way. And I love being able to do both sides of madness and the sort of gutsier side underneath it. And, boy, to have actors like that who can pull off those scenes in such beautiful ways all the way through. Molly Shannon, same thing. But with Melissa and this character, I just wanted one other element to embody, like that thing. Because now that she's got these daughters all named with D names, and they've all left her. And now she's going through it with Big Mike, her husband booted out to the boat. And what is the core thing that happened with Charles that could start to repair that a little bit? Felt really interesting. But how could you embody that? And that came basically from me realizing, oh, oh, you know what? A lot of it was, was in Palm Springs. I was in Palm Springs, I was at a consignment shop, and there was this beautiful framed photo. Not a poster, but it was a photo taken from the set of the original Valley of the Dolls movie. And I was like, well, that is quite a shot. And that made me think, oh, maybe there's an episode called Valley of the Dolls, which made me think, oh, that's the thing that I can sort of point to for Doreen. I can sort of point to that quality in Doreen if her house is filled with dolls, because it's sort of filling in the blank of the love that's lost now that all her daughters are gone.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oliver says it right away as soon as he sits down. So you've replaced your daughters with dolls. And she's like, her reaction, I've never made that connection.

[John Hoffman]

I have never made that connection.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So good.

[Robert Pulcini]

It's so good.

[John Hoffman]

That's exactly right.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Meryl Streep]

I started collecting after Dawn's wedding, and then when Dina and Danielle went to devry, and then Dagmar, which is my youngest little baby, she really just left to wound me.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So I guess you replaced your children with dolls, huh?

[Maggie Bowles]

Wow.

[Meryl Streep]

I have never made that connection. You are intuitive. That is much more important in a man than height.

[John Hoffman]

Thank you.

[Maggie Bowles]

It must have been a lot of work sourcing that many dolls. We talked to Patrick Howe and he told us there were over 200 dolls.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's what I said.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's what he said.

[John Hoffman]

I never counted. And I just was so excited by the idea of filling that house with dolls. And then the balance of life sized dolls or larger sized dolls with smaller dolls also got me very excited. And where they might put them, how they might do that. I have to give all of the credit to this incredible. This season, our prop team, and it's every season it's been incredible. Susanna McCarthy last year, and now Diana Burton has come in and just bowled us over with her work this season, especially on this episode with these damn dolls. I don't know how I hope they didn't yell at me in their heads or vocally every minute. I wasn't around them for this. But when they showed up with that doll in braids that looked just like Meryl Streep, I nearly fell over. And there was no better moment than walking on set with Meryl Streep and Martin Short to show them those dolls.

[Ryan Tillotson]

What was Meryl's reaction when she saw that? Or did she know?

[John Hoffman]

She screamed. She literally screamed. And then we all took about 4,000 pictures of her with it.

[Robert Pulcini]

Good.

[Maggie Bowles]

Where did that Meryl Streep doll end up? I want to know that. Is that on the back lot somewhere or.

[John Hoffman]

I don't know where to end up. Very, very exciting idea, isn't it? It's like, you know, that's going to be one of those, like, sometime we'll see a Halloween pic on someone's Instagram. Maybe our prop master, Diana Burton will show up a doll that looks like Amanda Seyfried on one side and Meryl Streep on the other. And she's all dressed in Greek, like white, flowing Mamma Mia Wear.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love that.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's what we'll. That's what we'll hope for, right?

[John Hoffman]

And what was even sweeter was when I was telling Melissa about that part of her character on that first phone call. She was. Well, she had to remind me because I actually kind of knew it, but for ridiculous reason. But she said, you know, I do have dolls myself.

[Maggie Bowles]

Are any of her dolls visible in the episode? She bring any from home?

[John Hoffman]

No, but, boy, she brought a lot. She really did.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yes, she did.

[John Hoffman]

She did. And then she brought her own wigs and she brought. I mean, she just kicked it right in and found that character walked on set that day. I will never. For, like, she was fully formed and ready to go as Doreen and I. What I love about her in this is that I feel like as much as you think, you know, Melissa McCarthy and what she does and all that, I feel like I haven't seen her do anything like this before. And in many ways, it felt like a whole new discovery.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I loved it and I just. The accent. I mean, she was so good.

[Maggie Bowles]

She's so good when she comes out with the pigtails on. I just lost it watching it. I just laughed out loud. The faw, if you will.

[John Hoffman]

Is this the episode? The episode written by Matteo Borghese and Rob Cherbosky so superbly again, directed by Sherry and Bob, you know, our brilliant director from last season. And I just feel like that one had something around it and it just thought, well, if we can pull off this madhouse safe house, that Starts revealing deeper things. I thought, boy, what fun it would be. And so, yeah, it was very fulfilling that one.

[Maggie Bowles]

One of the reveals we get in that house is the Sweaty Betty, which is that this season's Cocotini. Is that the cocktail of the season?

[Ryan Tillotson]

I've never heard of it.

[John Hoffman]

That is so good.

[Maggie Bowles]

Crystal Light and vodka.

[John Hoffman]

You know, we don't. A lot of times with our just. We've gotten used to it, because I know you've heard this before, but our central trio is always, you know, asked questions about, do you improv a lot? Do you do, like, lots of improv? And they very often say, no, we really don't. We follow the script. And I think that, for the most part, is true. Every now and then, you have brilliant people come on set with some ideas and thoughts, and you say, hell, yes, go ahead and do that. And Melissa McCarthy came up with the Sweaty Betty and went deep on, you know, can we get some Crystal Light? And like, that. Crystal Light might have been there, but naming it the Sweaty Betty was a biggie brought on by.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It was so good. It was perfect for Doreen.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, right. It was clearly Doreen.

[John Hoffman]

It was invented by her. By her friend, also named Betty. Also sweat like a pig.

[Maggie Bowles]

See that?

[Ryan Tillotson]

You've misplaced your watermelon liqueur.

[Meryl Streep]

Oh, why don't I make you one of my signature cocktails?

[Molly Shannon]

Okay, let me just. Behind you. Almost got it.

[Meryl Streep]

Here we go.

[Molly Shannon]

I think you are going to like.

[Meryl Streep]

This is mostly entirely vodka and crystal light. You know, I call it a Sweaty Betty. Named it after my dear friend, also named Betty, who also happens to sweat like a pig. So there we go. In the crystal light, if you dunk anything in it, it's a great exfoliant. A long pour for my short king.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, here's to Betty.

[Molly Shannon]

Ah, Betty was a whore.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

I think she's a genius.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Back to directors Sherry Springer Berman and Bob Pulcini.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

I mean, just period, like, and full stop. Like, I was so blown away with her talent. I mean, I knew she was going to be funny, obviously, but it went beyond that. It was like she improvised. She always would improvise a line that was like, there's, like, on the cutting room floor a million funny lines. I don't know if you've seen her improvisations from. From Bridesmaids. Like, it's just. You could fill a movie with everything that there's no time for her improvisations. And she's a brilliant dramatic. There's a, you know, a very serious kind of heart rending scene. Between her and Steve Martin. And she's amazing in that she is really, truly. And such, like, such a great spirit on set. And it was just fantastic.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You know what?

[Meryl Streep]

I remember one of my probably fondest memories. This guy must have been what, five mom was taking me to see my big brother in one of his first plays. It was so good. You always meant to be Mr. Hollywood someday, huh?

[Molly Shannon]

Are you even listening to me? I'm sorry, I just.

[Robert Pulcini]

She's one of these actors too, and I've had this a few times who can take like, just a little bit of business and make it into a set piece. Do you know what I mean? Like, if you give her a little bit of business just making that cocktail

[Ryan Tillotson]

crystal light and vodka.

[Robert Pulcini]

Crystal light. Her nails, the way she stirred it, you know, the way she sprays it on herself.

[John Hoffman]

I mean.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Yeah, it was. And again, we had to cut down because it was like. There was so much amazing stuff in there. But like, you just. It's only a half hour show, so we couldn't, you know, put it all in. But she's really incredible with. With business.

[Maggie Bowles]

Just a little aside because I didn't realize business was like a real film directing term. So. Ryan, you went to film school. Give me a quick explanation of. Of business.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It's just any business that an actor is doing while performing.

[Maggie Bowles]

While saying lines.

[Ryan Tillotson]

While saying lines or, you know, in the background, even that could be business.

[Maggie Bowles]

And it's not in the script or it isn't.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Sometimes it could be in the script, but sometimes it can be improvised.

[Maggie Bowles]

All right, so that's business. The more, you know. Okay, back to Bob and Sherry.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Would you say that would. Was one of the biggest challenges of this whole episode? Or, you know, having to. Having too much and having to cut it down? Or is that always a challenge on these.

[Robert Pulcini]

It was challenging.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

This one was particularly challenging because, you

[Robert Pulcini]

know, you have to kill things that are funny, you know, and to keep it going. And that's always very hard to do because you, you know, you fall in love with them. But it was. I mean, it was.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

But I mean, John had to really, like, we killed some, and then John had to come in and kill the rest. So it was like. It's. It's hard because so much. I mean, it was a well of material.

[Maggie Bowles]

There's another scene in this episode that is so special, and that is Loretta and Oliver getting engaged, I guess, technically. Can you tell us about that sort of like, tender moment?

[Robert Pulcini]

What can I say about it other than, like, they're just so wonderful Together. I mean, they have so much chemistry and there is a natural sweetness between them, you know, that you see just, you know, when the cameras aren't rolling, it's. I mean, we decided to do it kind of French overs mostly, which is kind of on their backs because it just felt romantic that way. But yeah, I mean, they're just like. I mean, what can I say? I mean, you could let the cameras anywhere.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

And that was another.

[Robert Pulcini]

There's gonna be magic with them. You know, it's. They're just great.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

That was another scene that was. We had to cut down because it was, it was so good and there was some improv that they did that was really warm and beautiful. But again, it's only a half hour show, so we had to cut that. But it was really hard because there were so many beautiful moments between them.

[Meryl Streep]

You must have, by my count, six different stories about running into Lynda Carter at grocery stores.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Wonder Woman and a wonderful lady.

[Meryl Streep]

Well, to the point, despite your obvious pathologies, I'm here still and I'm not going anywhere. And I sign on to your crazy for a lifetime.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You're giving me a doll's bracelet.

[Meryl Streep]

I'm proposing to you, Oliver. I want to marry you.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, before I accept, just out of curiosity, is there any family money? I accept. After the break, John Hoffman's longtime friendship with the hilarious Molly Shannon and how to be drunk on set Convincingly correct.

[Maggie Bowles]

Welcome back. The first unexpected visitor to show up at Doreen's house in Long island after the trio, I guess, is Bev Mellon, played by Molly Shannon. Showrunner and co creator John Hoffman has known Molly for a long time. Many years.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We had the pleasure to speak with Molly Shane, and thanks to you. And it was so fun.

[John Hoffman]

She's the best, right?

[Ryan Tillotson]

She is the best. So incredible. She kind of enlightened us that she's actually kind of similar to Bev Mallon in terms of the fact. I mean, I guess she just is kind of on top of things.

[Maggie Bowles]

She gets things.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And I noticed it, it just in,

[Maggie Bowles]

in scheduling, you made the connection for

[Molly Shannon]

her and she went.

[Maggie Bowles]

You're right. I think, I think you're the one

[Ryan Tillotson]

that pointed it out.

[Maggie Bowles]

I don't think she necessarily saw herself in Bev Melon until you pointed out

[Ryan Tillotson]

she was so on top of just like giving the right links for the recording and making sure it was her. Like just.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, very on top of it.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Anyway, so I'm just curious if you've noticed this about her.

[John Hoffman]

Have I noticed this about her? To say that this was one of my biggest dreams when this show happened to get Molly to do something that like, I've known Molly and she probably said this, but I've known her since we were kids. Basically first out here in Los Angeles, and let's just say this, we would be at it. There's a. There used to be a restaurant in Los Angeles that was open very late, even on weeknights called Kate Mantalini. And it was in the Wilshire on. Off of Wilshire, over by all those agencies in a weird place. But Molly and I would end up talking late night at Kate Mantellini. And a lot of times, you know, we were all sort of trying to find our way. Like, oh, we had shitty auditions on things or bad meetings and like, how do we make things work here? This was before Molly got Saturday Night Live. This was early days. And then we'd be in relationship things and be working through like heartbreak or whatever. And there was one moment where she was working through a bit of heartbreak at Kate Mantalini. And I'll never forget it because it's still to this day what she'll do. And I'll be like, molly, look, you need to just. And I'll just advise her. And she's like, uh huh, uh huh, Wait, hold on one second, can you repeat that? And she would write it down on a napkin and she would like, say that again. Okay. Huh. And I say, what? And I'm like, well, so the moment has kind of like happened already. But I'm like, you will find the perfect guy for you. They will come when you least expect. They will come when I least expect it. So like, and just like a mantra, I think she even said on a talk show recently or in the last few years. I think I said to her at some point in like talking her through this breakup, Molly, let me put it to you this way. The luckiest guy in the world just got luckier because you became available. Try and think of it that way.

[Maggie Bowles]

And she was like, wait, that's so sweet.

[John Hoffman]

Wait, what? And then she was like, say that again. And she had to write it on a gay manilini napkin. And I think she really surprised me. I think she was an interview only about five years, three to five years ago, where she sent it to me and she said, john, look what I did. And she did this interview and she quoted that line at some point. I was like, what? She remembered it for many, many years later. But that's both sides of Molly. It's this thing that I'm sure will Surprise no one. But she's the most beautiful heart and delightful energy of making sure she has everything right. And that's. She's just great.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I can only imagine how many notes she has.

[John Hoffman]

Well, and notes and, like, notes and talking through and, like, when she was dealing with the script, I loved it because she would get in there and, like, certain words that felt right as Bev and to. But they were like, just like the perfect. It was like someone coming in and just doing little surgical work to just make it run just right for her. Yeah, it was great.

[Molly Shannon]

I love that I found you finally. I have left you so many messages. It's a good thing Howard knew where you were. So listen, this is serious. The studio is asking if the brother sisters are the killers. If they are the killers. I have to fire them if they might be, but we can't prove it. That is a gray area that I can sell. So what is it? Tell me.

[Robert Pulcini]

It's definitely not them.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I think.

[Molly Shannon]

Okay, he says they're not the killers. He's right here. He seems like 60% sure. That sounds low. Well, 50% of one margarita was enough for you to flash your boobs at the Fabelman's premiere.

[Robert Pulcini]

Bev, this is an emergency safe house situation. So I need your phone.

[Molly Shannon]

He did see them, Monica. So we partially shoot it outside when I did, like, when I arrive and I see Steve Martin on the boat. So that was really fun and easy. It's always fun when you shoot outside. Everybody's in a good mood. Steve's outside on the boat. We're all just hanging out and laughing. You know, everybody's around the cameras outside.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's Molly Shannon, obviously.

[Maggie Bowles]

Obviously.

[Molly Shannon]

So it was just fun and easy. I just remember it being like a sunny, good weather, beautiful morning. And Steve's out. Finished early. I finished early. And then we did the rest of the stuff at the studio in. In New York. But they really copied the inside of that house. They just took pictures and rebuilt it at the stage. So we shot that. Those kitchen scenes that I shot when I show up with the actors and Selena and Meryl and Zach and Eugene, everybody was on the stage. And that was so fun and easy. Very contained. And I was definitely nervous. I really wanted to do a good job. But it's like a pretty short scene. I haven't seen it yet. Did it come out okay?

[Ryan Tillotson]

It's so good. It doesn't feel. I mean, it doesn't feel short. I mean, it feels all very. I mean, I guess, like you're interwoven throughout the episode. Cause you leave and you come back a little tipsy.

[Molly Shannon]

Oh, okay. Got it. Oh. Interwoven throughout the episode.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

So it feels like you're present throughout the whole time. Yeah.

[Molly Shannon]

I'm sick of this bullshit studio and the script with its bullshit plot holes and all you self centered actors memorizing your lines in your little baby set slippers, eating your special actress food. I was shot and I bet it's infected.

[Diana Burton]

I am weeping fluid here.

[Molly Shannon]

Oh my God, Zach, cut it out. All you do is complain. I'm a self centered Greek smurf and I got hit by a sniper and now I have a boo boo. I can't take it anymore, bro. I'm done with Hollywood.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Do you have a secret for playing drunk? I'm sure you've had to play drunk multiple times. Is that hard?

[Molly Shannon]

Well, yeah, no, it's not hard. It's kind of like you just. I mean, I wasn't that drunk. I was just kind of loose, I would say, you know, not like so drunk. She's kind of having fun. And you know, I'm picky about that though. I don't like if people just throw it in.

[John Hoffman]

Yes.

[Molly Shannon]

Always has to make sense. Like I'm picky about that because I think it's easy to. Oh, just make her own pimp drum. I always get like, I'll question people about that, like, so why is that? Why did she do that? Or why did she go back to that or what's going on? Or what are you just. You know what I mean? I just think it can be easy. So I always want it used properly. Otherwise it's just too easy to use if it's just not thought out. Does that make sense? Yeah, I'm picky about that kind of stuff. I don't know.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You should be. That's great. Yeah.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But I mean, Bev Melon's going through some life changing right there, so it all makes sense.

[Molly Shannon]

And she probably feels stuck at the house and just like, oh, there's no food, like, at least let me have a beer, you know? And so, yeah, so I would say, I think that when you play drunk, you're always trying to act more straight. You're trying not to act drunk or you become very. It's a word where you're just focused on one thing. I think people become very like, they're just focused on that one. One person's face and everything else is kind of blurred out. It's a blur. Myopic. Is that the right word? I think that Is scientifically what happens when people are drunk, you know? And, you know, if somebody says something, it could be like, what? Like they're just focused on that thing and that's it. Everything else is a blur. So I think I kind of play it like that. But you learn stuff while you're doing it. Because sometimes I'm like, oh, that's really hard to do. Once I had to play drunk and walk back upstairs, and I was like, ooh, that doesn't work. You can't do that because it doesn't work with your body and kind of being drunk to have to go up gravity wise. But this just felt loose. And then I felt like. With Meryl Streep, I think we kind of improvised a little. Like she. She wanted to take the beer from me. And I. I don't know if this is in the cup, but I was like, okay, mom. You know, just acting kind of childlike. You know, actors all sitting together talking about their craft. Hey, actors, fuck you.

[Meryl Streep]

Can I want some drink of water?

[Molly Shannon]

Okay, mom. Fuck you, TV actor.

[Meryl Streep]

You know, my work.

[Maggie Bowles]

Work.

[Molly Shannon]

Let me sum up the quality of your acting ability in one word. So it's kind of immature, wild, like, you know, I just play it loose. I don't plan it. I'm very spontaneous in the moment. I would say, oh, yeah, loose, Loose.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that how you kind of approach everything or just like kind of the. The drunken. The drunken approach?

[Molly Shannon]

I would say. I try to approach everything like that.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Loose.

[Molly Shannon]

I don't overly plan it all. I'll have an idea and I. I know the lines very well and everything, but I would like to be in the moment and then. And then it's nice too. Like, that particular day, the crew was laughing a lot. Like I was being really silly. And they would laugh so hard. So I love making them laugh because you get a real meter for like, oh, good. I'm so glad that. Because I had to come back to the kitchen when I exit, and they were like, girl, covering their mouths and I really made them laugh. So I loved it. It feels like theater, live theater, because when you're doing movies, everybody has to be quiet, so you can't get a response. So it's great when they're like. And then cut. And then they burst out laughing. It's the greatest feeling, you know?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, I love that.

[Molly Shannon]

So I'm like, oh, good. Oh, good. What did you guys like? Okay, good, good. And then I do it again. Kind of. Kind of like that. Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

There must have been so many Moments like that, you know, throughout the entire shoot of the season. Like, can you share any other particular, like moments that were just like super hilarious on set?

[Molly Shannon]

Well, Selena is so easygoing and so sweet. So. And you know, not all everybody, all the special guest stars this year were just amazing. I just. And Steve and Marty, I've known for a long time. So it's, it's a pleasure to just work with them. And then Eugene and Zach and I mean just everyone. It was like an all star studded Eva. It was just like unbelievable. But anyhow, I did a lot of scenes with so Selena, of course. And Selena's really easygoing. She will let me do anything. I'm like, do you mind if I kiss you? You know, in like in that scene, I'm drunk, so I think I kiss her like, hello sweetie. And she lets me do anything. She's so easygoing and she just laughs and she's so generous and she's such a good actress and she just, she's just the greatest to perform with that way because she's so. Because some people aren't like that. Like they might not like you to do that or they might want to really practice it. She does not care at all. She, she or they, they, they won't like if you, if you improvise a little or change it. Selena's like a team player. Like she is just easygoing and goes with the flow and she's so great. And of course Meryl's like that too. She's just in the moment, like, of course. So I had direct contact with Meryl and Selena in that scene. Those were my two points. And they are both just, you know, I feel that we all performed the same way, like in the moment, you know.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love it. I love it.

[Molly Shannon]

It was wild. It was wild. I was very nervous. I just wanted to do a good job. I was nervous.

[Ryan Tillotson]

You were so, so great.

[Molly Shannon]

Oh, thank you, thank you. That's so sweet. And then Zach was so silly, like I think he was. Cause I kind of make fun of actors in that scene, right Toad?

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's right. I think you tell them all to fuck off.

[Molly Shannon]

Yeah, I'm like silly. So sick of little actors, self centered actors. And so I, I wanted it to sound very much coming from like a genuine place of how irritated she is with little actors memorizing their lines. And I don't know if this is in the thing, but I talk about how they wear slippers and memorizing their lines and eating special actress food, their special food, you know, So I. It's fun that she's just, like, so sick of it. And then she. So I didn't know the backstory, so I had to ask. I was like, wait, does Bette Mellon know Loretta's work? That's what I had to ask. Sherry and Bob, our directors, they're like, oh, yes, you do know her. And then Meryl and I talked about it, and then I'm like, so. Because I had to walk in the door and know my history, what I think of her, because I clock her, I'm like, ugh. Loretta. Like, so my character does not think that much of Loretta. She's like, TV actor. Hello, actor. She could give a shit, and she's drinking a beer and she does not care. But. So we had to establish that very quickly, because I did. I didn't really know. It's just a TV show that was just written, so we don't know the full backstory, you know, But Sherry and Bob were great.

[Maggie Bowles]

And they.

[Molly Shannon]

They were very. They're very loose, organic directors, too. Like, they. They kind of just, like, want me to have fun in the space, which is so fun, because you're not limited to just to stand on one spot near your suitcase. You could kind of shake it up a little. So that was great.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I absolutely love. I mean, I just. Look, I'm obsessed with their. Their work and some of the movies that they've done and shows, obviously, that they've directed. So of course they directed this episode. I mean, it was such a great episode.

[Molly Shannon]

It was beautiful.

[Maggie Bowles]

We're really big fans of theirs, too.

[Molly Shannon]

Huge fans.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Sherry Springer Berman]

Yeah.

[Molly Shannon]

They're so good.

[Maggie Bowles]

Another thing we have in this. In this season and in this episode is, like, all of these actors that have had these long, long careers. Like, yeah, Meryl Streep's been around forever. You know, Steve Martin, Eugene. Eugene Levy.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Just so many.

[Maggie Bowles]

What you think contributes to, like, longevity in a career that we, like, have so many prime examples of this. You might not have any opinion on it. It's totally fine.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But, yeah, and they're all here in this. In this episode, in this season.

[Maggie Bowles]

The only one we're missing is Richard Kine.

[Ryan Tillotson]

He's got a long career.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah. Like what. What do you have? What's the secret?

[Molly Shannon]

You mean these actors in real life having real life?

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Do you have a thought on that?

[Molly Shannon]

Oh, yeah. Well, it definitely takes a lot of hustle. People don't know. It's a hustle for everyone. It's. It's like I always say, I'm like, it's a hustle, you know, you really. I guess it's just staying in the game. Just stay in the game. Stay at it. You never know. You know, someone can come through and there can be. There are always ups and downs, and you just have to go with the flow and, you know, just stay in the game. Stay in the game, stay in the game. You know, I, I, that's what I would say. But obviously these people, they've been around a long time and probably have seen a lot of things, but it's just, it's. People don't know. It's. It's hard. These people have worked hard. I have a friend who left show business a long time ago. We both went to NYU Drama School, and she laughed and just gave it up. And she's like, how did you do it, Mal? She calls me Mal. How did you do it, Mal? Oh, my God. Wow. I'm like, I have worked so hard, you know? Like, I worked so hard. I stayed in town, I auditioned, I worked my ass off. That's what I did. A lot of hard work, you know, it's good.

[Maggie Bowles]

It's good.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Nice. Yeah.

[Molly Shannon]

And I think. But my philosophy is that, I think that if you're doing what you want, pursuing what you want, it doesn't feel like work. And you shouldn't look at it as like, oh, once I get there, I'll be happy. Just enjoy where you are and being creative and, you know, wherever you are in the moment, because there's not somebody who gets to some point and they're like, now I'm happy. Just enjoy that you're living in Los Angeles or New York or wherever in the arts. That alone is, like, really good. A lot of people give up on those dreams. So that was always my positive philosophy. Does that make sense?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Totally. Totally.

[Maggie Bowles]

And, you know, it sounds a lot like Loretta's character in Only Murders stuck it out. She's stuck it out. And then she landed a role in

[Ryan Tillotson]

the Burn Victims Unit.

[Molly Shannon]

Grey's Anatomy, Burn Victim Unit. Meryl's character, Loretta, is so funny. I told Meryl I know a real person. I cannot say who is exactly like Loretta. And she just plays it so well. Oh, my God, it's so funny. But I know a lot of Lorettas like that, and they're right. They're very positive. And they're just like, here we are in Hollywood, and, you know, it's so funny. She's great.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Absolutely.

[Molly Shannon]

I. It was a real bucket list to get to perform with Meryl Streep and get to know her. And I just could. I went back to my hotel room that night was like. I think I did a little like dance. And I told. I told him after I was. It was just she.

[John Hoffman]

And she.

[Molly Shannon]

She is just so funny and generous and. And interested and ask questions and she disarms everyone because I think people get nervous. She wants everybody to feel comfortable. And she's just like the greatest and so beautiful and thoughtful and intelligent and yes, so curious. Like really asks a lot of questions and just an absolute joy. And then of course, you know, Selena and Steve and Marty, I got to work with the whole season and they are just so great. And I. I had met Selena before too, so I know her, but just the whole cast, it was just. Where else would you want to be? It was the greatest set to be on.

[Maggie Bowles]

All right, listeners, we got a lot of emails this week. Thanks to you all, we now know what the actual Easter egg was.

[Ryan Tillotson]

The braids.

[Maggie Bowles]

It was the braids. So the trio had braids. You can see them through the window. Thank you for correcting me. Stephanie D, Kate F. Paris J, Ashton F, Nick D, Emily P. Leslie S, Mego, Tim Y and Jen. Thank you all for correcting me. I felt like I needed to tell you exactly how many people corrected me.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I wasn't gonna get it ever. So it was very helpful.

[Maggie Bowles]

And that's like in two days that many people corrected me. Thanks to the folks who responded to whether or not you guys like the theories, we'll keep sharing them. Thank you, Beth, Pamela, Kitty, Liz for your feedback and thank you for the new entries into the escape rooms and for all the rest of the emails. We really are excited to pick a winner.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We cannot wait. Soon we will have winners for the LA and New York only murders Escape room.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, but keep. Keep trying. Keep sending in things because it's going to be random. So your chances are random. Random. Anyways. All right, here are the theories you all sent in. What did we call this last season? Ryan? I remember I had an idea, the Theory Aerie. But that was a bad one. No, we had the Accusation station.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, the Accusation Station.

[Maggie Bowles]

Was that it?

[Ryan Tillotson]

And with Keener and kk, it was the whodunit summit.

[Maggie Bowles]

The whodunit summit with them. So I don't know, should we. Should we name this? Should add music. It's probably too late. All right. Vinnie S noticed something. He thinks Vince Fish is a red herring. And he noticed pink eye and fish red herring.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Interesting.

[Maggie Bowles]

Maybe there's like a red herring Vince Fish sort of thing.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I love that just a big red herring there.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. I also liked he had this idea that maybe Tawny Brothers is the blonde in the photo since he noticed she was blonde in the flashbacks. And we know the actor herself is blonde.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Whoa. Interesting.

[Maggie Bowles]

Interesting thought.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It seems that a few people are suspicious of Uma.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, the callback to she likes to collect stuff from dead people. Maybe explaining why she would have Saz's cell phone. Interesting.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Oh, I love that.

[Maggie Bowles]

Laura B. Also thinks that maybe Marshall is involved and that he stole the script from Szaz, which is very interesting.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay.

[Maggie Bowles]

Jenna from Kansas City also thinks maybe Uma thinks maybe she's in on the cheap rent with Dudenoff, knows that she doesn't like the film taking place.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, it's just annoying for her, you know?

[Maggie Bowles]

And she also noticed that the text not your friend sounds very Uma.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Sounds just like Uma.

[Maggie Bowles]

Stephanie D. Also thought it was Uma.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Irene P. From Milwaukee says, what if both deaths were staged with fake replacement joints? Szaz is still alive and watching over them, trying to protect them. Bev Mellon is Jan's sister and Jan is the murderous one.

[Maggie Bowles]

That one's Owen's a little far fetched for me, but I love the idea that maybe Sass is alive.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I also love that idea. That's the thing that makes it exciting.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. Nick D. Noticed the same ease and he noticed this before episode seven came out and the actors figured it out.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Nick, I think, sent screenshots of stills from the.

[Maggie Bowles]

He did. He noticed the E's were the same, including some of the E's on Rudy's chest. So maybe.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's interesting. That's very interesting.

[Maggie Bowles]

He's involved. He also noticed something.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Well, Rudy can't write those on his own chest like that.

[Maggie Bowles]

I could write on my own chest

[Ryan Tillotson]

upside down like that.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, of course. The weird thing is he has two different E's eyes.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's what I noticed also in the. In Nick's email of the photo of that still. It's like Rudy had someone else write them the names on the. On the. Which is how I would do it if I was a Christmas Instagram influencer.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, if you were. Another thing Nick noticed is that Vince Fish's alibi for the window was that his windows were painted shut. But then in episode six, they open his window to fly the drone.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's right, they do. Interesting.

[Maggie Bowles]

Very interesting.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Aaron H. Noticed that many of the people surrounding the trio are in on a multi season plot and maybe Szasz's murder, if there is one.

[Maggie Bowles]

They can't see you doing air quotes, Ryan.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Sorry, but I was. It's so is some sort of setup then. The title of the last episode of this season would be the Truman Show.

[Maggie Bowles]

I love that.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Which is.

[Maggie Bowles]

Wow.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay. Mind blown.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah. And then our last thing was Garth M. Said, did anyone notice Taylor Swift sitting next to Mabel? The doll with the black shirt with 87 on it? I did not. I did not notice a Taylor Swift doll.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Is that a Taylor Swift thing? 80, 87, 89.

[Maggie Bowles]

1989, I want to say was an album she released, but I did not notice that. But I'm not a Swiftie. Don't come for me. But I feel like I wish I'd asked Patrick Howe and John Hoffman if there were any secret dolls. Like did we ask them that? We didn't ask him. So no. That was a missed. That was a missed opportunity.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We only asked him about the Loretta doll. That was it. It was as far as we got

[Maggie Bowles]

with the dollar, but he said they made a few custom ones so we

[Ryan Tillotson]

should have dove deeper.

[Maggie Bowles]

It's worth a rewatch, I think, to see what kind of dolls you can see. All of the big dolls. Those are the ones that they had special made. So worth a rewatch to see what you can see. That's it for the emails this week. Thank you so much for sending them. We love reading them.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And now here is Hannah from the Only Murders subreddit.

[Maggie Bowles]

Hey Maggie.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Hey Ryan. And hello to everyone listening. This week gave us another great episode and our members feel so heard by the writers who are seemingly about to answ we've had for years on the Only Murder subreddit. This episode's revelations have sent the investigation in a whole new direction with the actors theory that somebody has been after our trio since season one and some of our members are growing suspicious of none other than Detective Williams. EastLibrary536 says. This might sound crazy, but I think a potential killer could be Detective Williams. While she seems like your typical rough on the outside but soft on the inside cop with a good heart, it's hard for me to find another plausible suspect after the actor has declared everything connects back to season one. She's been a recurring character throughout the show. She definitely has experience with firearms, so she could be the sniper. And she's likely strong enough to carry Saz's body. She's also always associated with the trio's cases for some reason. As a detective, she has access to all sorts of information, evidence, weapons. She could have gotten Saz's phone and unlocked it with her NYPD resources. Not your fucking friend. Really Sounds like something she would say. And finally, she's a lefty. She's seen writing with her left hand in episode one, Season six. This week's revelations have also validated our suspicions of the Westies, but people still aren't certain that they're actual killers. A popular theory remains that they somehow found out about Dudanov's death and they're cashing in the checks to keep their rents low. The question remains though, where is the ham coming from if Dudenov isn't sending it from Portugal? Then amongst all of our theorizing, a name came back which we haven't heard this season yet. Luna Lemon says there are some signs that point to the demises. Firstly, Bally of the Doll was the seventh episode, which as others have pointed out, usually involved Theo. Secondly, the actor's big Jules sticky note, which wasn't addressed explicitly but was featured prominently on the murder wall. And thirdly, there have been several references to Jules in conversation with all the crystal light jokes, Bev saying it's crystal clear that she will stay in Hollywood, the doll bracelets, loretta gives Oliver, etc. And finally, it wouldn't be the only murders in the building subreddit without a theory about Howard. Whether people think he's been secretly evil all along, or he's an innocent cat lover who wouldn't hurt a fly, we're always talking about his relations to plot. Pacific Mermaid Girl says Howard gets more and more suspicious. He's been there from the very beginning. In season three, he made a big deal about wanting to be involved with the podcast this season. He always seems to be there during important moments. He happens to show up with a cadaver dog that he didn't have before at the scene of the murder. He happens to get involved with a movie set the day that people get shot. And this last episode, he's the only one who knows the trio's location at the safe house, which he shares carelessly. And he's the one who tells the trio about the Westies. And somehow he got Big Mike's phone number, which felt odd and important to me. So I'm more and more suspicious of him every week. So there you have it. Whether we take think Howard is guilty or not, he's always on our minds and we love him. I'll be back next week with more theories from the only murdered subreddit as we get closer to the season finale.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. Please continue to send us your thoughts and theories to only murdersrawhutmedia.com Take a

[Ryan Tillotson]

minute to send subscribe Rate the Show Follow us and leave a review if you're enjoying the show.

[Maggie Bowles]

Only Murders in the Building podcast is a production of Straw Hut Media, hosted and produced by Ryan Tilotson and Maggie Bowles. Our associate producer is Stephen Markley with original music by Kyle Merritt and only Murders in the Building theme music by Siddhartha Khosla. Our assistant editor is Daniel Ferreira and our production assistant is Caroline Mendoza.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Thank you so, so much to Sherry Springer Berman, Robert Pulcini, Patrick Howe, Molly Shannon. Well, that's everybody. Thanks so much for talking to us.

[Maggie Bowles]

And big, big thanks as always to John Hoffman and the entire Hulu team.

[Ryan Tillotson]

See you next week.

[Robert Pulcini]

Marty was doing all kinds of crazy things with the dolls constantly, so like, lots of fun to be had.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah, like what I'm trying to imagine,

[Ryan Tillotson]

I would imagine just hand stuff, you know?

[Maggie Bowles]

Just hand stuff, he says.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I don't know.