S4 E9: Escape From Planet Klongo (Part 2)

Summary

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Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast

S4 E9: "Escape From Planet Klongo (Part 2)"

Release Date: October 25, 2024
Host: Michael Cyril Creighton (Howard) for Hulu
Guests: John Hoffman (Showrunner), Ben Smith & Alex Bigelow (Writers), Chris Barnes (Stunt Coordinator), plus cast & crew insights

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Episode Overview

This episode takes fans deep behind the scenes of Season 4, Episode 9 of Only Murders in the Building, focusing on the climactic fire stunt, the crafting of "Project Ronkonkoma," and the narrative’s emotional high points. Host Michael Cyril Creighton and his team of contributors interview the writers, the showrunner, and Stunt Coordinator Chris Barnes, highlighting the craftsmanship behind the episode’s signature action moments and exploring the evolving storylines—especially those connected to stuntwoman Saz and the fate of key characters. There’s a special focus on the painstaking work and safety measures behind the now-famous fire stunt, as well as the creative choices shaping the season’s whodunit.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Behind the Fire Stunt: Craft, Safety, & Authenticity (01:19–03:10; 14:28–18:01)

• Setting the Scene:
  Writers Alex Bigelow and Ben Smith discuss researching and scripting the dangerous fire stunt performed by Saz’s protégé, Rex Bailey. Authenticity was a priority: “When we were writing these little scenes, we were kind of looking up... how they would prep... And then to see that stunt happen, it was like the only time I’ve ever seen set—everyone was, like, dead silent and so locked in.” – Alex Bigelow (01:22)

• Production Realism:
  The stunt department heavily influenced the realism, advising on gear and methods, including old-school tinsel and protective headwear—details woven directly into the story. Ben Smith notes, “They were helpful in taking what we’d researched and making it even more authentic.” (02:18)

• Stunts in Practice:
  Chris Barnes (Stunt Coordinator) describes the meticulous preparation: “When you’re setting someone on fire, everything is based on time... you talk with the director, talk to the AD, and figure out how much time you actually have to do this fire.” (14:48)

• Protective Measures:
  On the use of fire gels, Barnes explains: “There are gels that are accelerants ... but you don’t want to get those two confused. The [protective] gels are a barrier ... most everyone is using a form of the original Zeller gel.” (15:20)

• Choosing the Stunt Performer:
  Su Liu handled the fire stunt for Jin Ha’s character, Rex. “Murders... is not a place for people to learn and do their first fire. I don’t know how they’re going to react... Su had reels that were quite impressive. I felt he didn’t need a rehearsal.” – Chris Barnes (18:12)

Memorable Quote

“I honestly couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve been on fire.”
—Chris Barnes (00:02; Recalled at 20:59)

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2. The Creation of Project Ronkonkoma—A “B” Movie Within a Show (03:10–06:23)

• Naming the Movie:
  The fake film "Project Ronkonkoma" was originally a placeholder, but showrunner John Hoffman suggested the now-memorable name. “He came in one day and was like, Ronkonkoma. It’s Ronkonkoma. And we were like, of course it is.” —Alex Bigelow (03:27)

• Evolving the Scene:
  Constraints led to creative choices—the stunt needed to be outside and cost-effective. Elements like “a mob story by the waterfront” grew out of practical necessities. (04:00)

• A Real Place:
  “Ronkonkoma” is, indeed, a New York town. “It’s out in Long Island.” —Ben Smith (05:22)

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3. The Emotional Payoff: Saz’s Flashbacks and Character Arcs (06:23–08:18)

• Narrative Depth:
  Writers emphasize how the Saz flashbacks provided clues and emotional resonance, with John Hoffman noting, “That energy [Jane Lynch] has—sort of a gust and a real conscientious concern for the work... The opportunity to show Saz in her real work and mentoring... felt pretty great.” (07:19)

• Saz’s Role:
  The mentoring dynamic is highlighted as meaningful both for world-building and for Saz’s character: “Some of her best work is yet to come for us.” —John Hoffman (08:18)

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4. Stunt Life: Reality, Family, and Perception (08:30–13:35)

• Stunt Highlights:
  This season included Meryl Streep’s epic fight, a full barroom brawl, and even a hit-by-car sequence. The fire stunt, though, was “the biggest one ... most involved and comes at the most risk.” —Chris Barnes (09:36)

• Stunt Bar Myths:
  The writers’ research apparently nailed the stunt world’s atmosphere: “There is a bar out in California... called Residuals, and you can go in with any residual check and get a beer for the price of that check.” —Chris Barnes (11:13)

• Legacy of Stunt Work:
  All three of Barnes’ sons have become professional stuntmen: “It’s a family business, just like Saz Pataki.” (13:41)

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5. Stunt Work as an Art and a Science (21:56–26:18)

• Myths Vs. Reality:
  “People think we’re crazy, people think we’re daredevils... I don’t want the kid that comes up and says, ‘I’ll jump off that roof right now!’ — I’d rather the person who’s cautious and thinks about it.” —Chris Barnes (22:25)

• Acting Skills:
  “Production’s gotten smarter... instead of doubling a cop... they cast a stunt person. Now, acting is one of the bigger tools you can have.” (23:27)

• Favorite Stunts:
  Barnes’ personal preference is for practical “barroom brawls,” but also “water stuff” and reenactments for forensic investigations: “That’s like science... Forensics, right?” (26:13)

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6. Plot Twists, Emotional Impacts, and Narrative Retcons (26:51–31:58)

• The Death of Glenn Stubbins:
  Paul Rudd’s character, originally comic relief, is shockingly murdered, giving the episode “real narrative purpose ... his character served more than just a comedy purpose in the season.” — Ben Smith (27:06)

• Connecting to Season One:
  The season references unfinished threads from the series’ debut. Ben Smith reflects on how what seemed like plot holes evolved into meaningful callbacks: “I’d attribute it all to Jan...[but now] we use that as an opportunity to... address those lingering questions.” (29:16–30:33)

• Highlight on Collaboration:
  Alex Bigelow, co-writer on her first episode, and Ben Smith both reflect on the joy and ease of crafting this pivotal chapter.

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7. Fan Theories and Community Highlights (32:07–38:37)

• Reddit Theories Recap:
  Maggie & Hannah share elaborate fan theories—from Marshall being a pawn controlled by a mastermind, to Bev hiring him, to the possibility of “doubles” and even misdirection about the true killer. (33:57–36:00)

• Easter Eggs:
  The podcast tips to a visual Easter egg: “Big green screens above the Arconia foreshadowing the set of Escape from Planet Klongo.” (32:43)

• Paul Rudd Gag:
  A fan hopes the show keeps killing Paul Rudd’s characters as a recurring joke every season.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• The Weight of the Fire Stunt:
  “Everyone was like dead silent and so locked in... that was pretty cool because these are the things we’ve been researching for Saz.” —Alex Bigelow (01:22)

• On Double Deaths:
  “I love how they killed Paul Rudd twice... I’m kind of hoping they make it a running gag.” —Brighttop5691, via Reddit (38:22)

• On Being a Stunt Performer:
  “If the biggest fallacy ... people think we’re crazy ... I’d rather the person who’s cautious ... Because most stunts are going to be done a couple times, depending on how big they are.” —Chris Barnes (22:25)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:19 – Fire stunt prepping & authenticity
• 03:10 – Origin and purpose of “Project Ronkonkoma”
• 06:23 – Saz’s flashbacks and emotional payoff
• 08:30 – Stunt highlights this season
• 11:13 – Stunt bar lore
• 13:41 – Barnes’ family stunt legacy
• 14:28 – Safety protocol for on-set fire stunts
• 21:56 – Debunking stunt myths; daredevils vs. professionals
• 26:51 – Glenn Stubbins’s fate and narrative decisions
• 29:16 – Revisiting Season 1’s plot holes
• 32:07 – Fan theories and Easter eggs

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a witty but thorough peek into the craft and community spirit that make Only Murders in the Building unique—blending laughter, suspense, and technical expertise. By spotlighting both the peril and the playfulness of stunt work, as well as inviting fans into the theory-crafting fray, the podcast continues to celebrate the collaborative magic behind the Arconia’s mysteries.

Transcript

[Maggie Bowles]

Straw Hut Media.

[Chris Barnes]

I honestly couldn't tell you how many times I've been on fire.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Hello and welcome back to the Only Murders in the Building podcast. I'm Ryan Tillotson.

[Maggie Bowles]

And I'm Maggie Bowles. And we are looking behind the scenes and mining for clues as we meet the cast and creators of the Hulu original series, Only Murders in the Building.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Today on the show, we're continuing the conversation all about season four, episode nine, Escape from Planet Kalongo.

[Maggie Bowles]

We we'll hear from showrunner and co creator John Hoffman, the writers of the episode, Ben Smith and Alex Belo. And we'll also talk to Chris Barnes, the amazing stunt coordinator on Only Murders in the Building.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We will talk about seeing Szazz in her element, both as a stunt person and as a mentor, setting a person on fire safely and Project Runkonkoma.

[Maggie Bowles]

It's a real place.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It's a real place.

[Maggie Bowles]

Earlier this week in Part one, we talked a lot about Escape from Planet Clongo, but we didn't talk very much about Project Rongkonkama and the crazy scene where Rex Bailey, Sassa's protege, does his first fire stunt and things go terribly, terribly wrong. Alex Bigelow and Ben Smith co wrote the episode.

[Alex Bigelow]

Well, setting someone on fire, that was very wild. And I was on set that day and it felt very cool. In a season where we had been researching and talking about stuntmen so much to actually see it unfold. And obviously when we were writing these little scenes, we were kind of looking up, you know, how they would prep and we learned about the gel and all these things that they put on themselves before they light themselves on fire. And to like see that stunt happen, it was like the only time I've ever seen like set. Like, everyone was like dead silent and like so locked in. To watch this happen and to see them actually like do all the steps was pretty cool because we're like, oh, these are the things that we've been researching for Saz. And now we get to actually see a big stunt on our show.

[Ben Smith]

And those production meetings were really fun because the stunt department, who's so talented, but this was an episode that obviously featured so many stunts and they were super down with all of it, were like, yes, that's achievable. We can do it. And helpful in the writing because they were going off a script and they were like, I see what you're trying to do with this silver tinsel. This is. That's not like the stuff we use nowadays. But maybe in the past it could be like a hand me down. Like, this is something they used in the past. We're like, great, let's build that into story that it was a gift to Saz that she's now passing on. And little stuff about, like, what type of headwear they would use. So they were helpful in kind of like, taking the script, which you'd researched, and then making it even more authentic.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Very cool.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Interesting. How many times did they actually light someone on fire?

[Alex Bigelow]

Just once.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Just the one time?

[Chris Barnes]

Yep.

[Ben Smith]

Wow.

[Alex Bigelow]

So that's why everyone also is like, we have the time for one. So everyone was really excited. And then, like, yeah, everyone was just so thrilled and, like, cheering.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Yeah. I am curious about Ron Konkoma a little bit more. First of all, the name. And then also, like, what is that movie about? Like, what is happening, like, in that scene when they, like, kick him out and light him on fire? Like, what is this?

[Alex Bigelow]

For a while, we just had a placeholder name for that, and that is a John Hoffman name where he came in one day and was like, ronkonkoma. It's Ronkonkoma. And we were like, of course it is. Correct me if I'm wrong, Ben, but I feel like we kind of imagined it to be a MA B movie.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Okay, that's the vibe I got from the one scene.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah, it was something. I mean, the very unsexy answer is that a lot of these things are driven by production. And then sometimes you're, like, given a few parameters, and then you make something, it turns out great because you have the parameters, and then you kind of, like, have something to play within. But I remember the first name that we used just as a placeholder was this was called Project Damascus. And, like, initially in those first production meetings, they're like, okay, there's like, a chariot and there's, like, sand. And then pretty quickly it became like, is that important? Because that's incredibly expensive. And we're like, no, that was just a name that was set. It could be anything. And then it becomes something where, like, okay, it should be New York based. It should, like, be filling on location. If we're gonna light someone on fire, it needs to be outside. Like, it should be an area that we don't have to spend $100,000 decorating. You know, like, it should just be a waterfront that is kind of, like, shot as is. And then you start to be like, okay, we have a character's head needs to be covered. Needs to have, like, one filming location. Cause we're doing it all in one Day. Let's have them in the back of a van. Let's have use the van for the scene. Let's be right there. You can set them on fire and turn it off. And then you're like, okay, it's a mob story by the waterfront, whatever. So like those are like the full

[Guest/Interviewer]

journey of it for some reason called Ronkonkoma.

[Ben Smith]

And Ronkonkoma because it's New York based and John liked the name.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Wait, is Ronkonkoma something real? Yeah, I guess I could have googled this. I could have done my research. I really failed in preparations.

[Ben Smith]

It's out in Long Island.

[Guest/Interviewer]

It's a neighborhood.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Neighborhood area I gotta visit.

[Guest/Interviewer]

It gets stuck in my head. It's one of those words that gets stuck in my head. Ronkonkoma. And every time I get stuck in my head, I start singing Chapel. Ron hit it like Ronkonkoma, which is not what it is, but it's like in my brain forever. So thank you for that.

[Alex Bigelow]

Okay, I like that.

[Chris Barnes]

Ready?

[Marshall P. Pope (voice actor or character)]

Step one, grab your fireproof jock from the deep freeze. Strap it on. Step two, slather up your tender bits with this stuff. Wrists, neck, ankles, anything not covered by this flame retardant vest. AKA step three. Yeah, it's a bit tattered, it's a bit old school, but it's a gift from my old man and it's kept me safe all these years. Here for you. Try it on. Lather yourself up and we're gonna torch you. Oh, I'm so psyched for you.

[Alex Bigelow]

For me, one thing that felt special too was to get to see these sass flashbacks. Like we're at that moment where we're so close to finding out who she is talking about and to see this relationship that eventually is gonna give us a bigger understanding to the murder. It was just really awesome to have those flashbacks and be able to see the story, like uncover about this relationship she had with this person that will obviously then we get to have that big reveal at the end of nine.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It was very satisfying to see her stunting or like in that world, you know?

[John Hoffman]

Absolutely. And I love that. Like, it feels like this idea of Saz was always such a swing for us right from the beginning of season one. And playing Charles stunt double, this is

[Ryan Tillotson]

John Hoffman, co creator, showrunner.

[John Hoffman]

And then you get to really go in and show like the reality of that. And she's. I mean, that's Jane lynch to a T right there. And just the way in which that energy she has of sort of a gusto and a Real conscientious concern for the work that's being done. That's what I see when she's on set as well. And she's just a delight. And so the opportunity to show Saz in her real work and mentoring and helping along someone felt pretty great as an opportunity.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It did. It was great. I loved it.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Even though she might be mentoring a psychopathic murderer. Unfortunately.

[John Hoffman]

Unfortunately. But we'll see, we'll see, we'll see.

[Maggie Bowles]

And I feel like there may be

[Guest/Interviewer]

some twists and turns to.

[Ryan Tillotson]

There has to be.

[Guest/Interviewer]

But I had missed Saz. I was so happy to see her.

[John Hoffman]

Aw, that's nice. Yeah. Well, I think some of her best work is yet to come to for us.

[Ryan Tillotson]

This is great.

[John Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Wow.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Very excited. Very excited.

[Maggie Bowles]

With all of the amazing stunt stuff this season, we felt like it was very important that we talk to the stunt coordinator on the show, Chris Barnes, who apparently has been getting a lot of interview requests ever since episode seven and the fight between Loretta and Doreen.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Wait, so you've had a bunch of requests for interviews because of the Meryl Streep fight?

[Chris Barnes]

Well, same type of thing. Whether it's a podcast or whether it's a news reporter from a local paper. Yeah. And I send them all just as I did yours. I send them all to production, and I let them tell me what I can or can't do. I'm not looking for the limelight. That's not why you became a stuntman.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I'm trying to think of the stunts that I definitely know are stunts in this season. In episode four, we have the Paul Rudd character jumping into a trash can, hitting himself in the head with the lid. I think. I know. In episode nine, we've got the. Well, someone gets lit on fire. That's got to be a stunt.

[Guest/Interviewer]

That's a big one. That's a big one.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We have the Meryl Streep fight. What were the kind of the big ones for you this season?

[Chris Barnes]

The biggest one was probably the fire. Cause it's most involved and comes at the most risk. I really enjoyed the whole barroom fight. The barroom brawl. It was a result that came post the jumping into the dumpster. The Meryl Streep and Melissa fight were, you know, was kind of epic in its own sense, dealing with, you know, a bit of Hollywood royalty there and people who just tend to be action heroes. Then we did have Marshall P. Pope get hit by a car. I hope it looked good. Well, maybe it wasn't good because you apparently. You forgot it on your Verbal list that you just can't.

[Guest/Interviewer]

It looked so natural. I forgot it was a stunt. Yes. I was like, oh, yeah, he just got hit by a car and rolled into the backseat. That's not a stunt. He just does that, and that's normal.

[Chris Barnes]

That's because he was a stuntman project run concomant.

[Marshall P. Pope (voice actor or character)]

Of course, I could wrestle up a team. Well, yeah, I.

[Chris Barnes]

But sometimes you meet a person you don't want to let go of, and sometimes they can change your life in ways you never saw coming.

[Marshall P. Pope (voice actor or character)]

Jeez, that was some flip. I teach that in my advanced somersault in intensive, which is in the winter. You ever stunted before?

[Guest/Interviewer]

We've talked to most of the writers this season, and some of the directors, and a lot of them seem to have done a lot of research into the stunt, into stunting and the stunt community.

[Chris Barnes]

They pretty much nailed it. They. They did. They did the homework. Because that whole stuntman bar. There is a bar out in California. I don't know the name of it. It's not necessarily a stuntman bar, but it's definitely a SAG bar. I heard you can go in with your. Any residual check and you can get a. I think. Oh, actually, I think it's called residuals, now that I think of it.

[Guest/Interviewer]

I know that bar. Yeah.

[Chris Barnes]

And you supposedly can go in with any residual check, and you can get a beer for the price of that residual check.

[Guest/Interviewer]

I love.

[Chris Barnes]

So I mean. So, I mean, maybe they played the whole concussions thing off of that, but, you know, I think they did. I think they did a great job, to be honest with you.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Yeah, they did. Was the idea of a stuntman's funeral where they do the breakaways on the head, was that something you could imagine happening?

[Chris Barnes]

Could I imagine it happening? Yes. Have I ever heard a myth or a rumor or a fact of it? No, I never did.

[Marshall P. Pope (voice actor or character)]

Okay.

[Guest/Interviewer]

I think it'd be pretty fun.

[Chris Barnes]

Yeah. I do keep an arsenal of breakaway bottles in my garage, and we use them at parties and we use them for. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I used to go to the school when my kids were younger. I used to go to their school and talk about stunts and stuff. And, you know, you can't really talk about guns. You can't really talk about fire. You can't really talk about fighting. So that was like, one of the silly things you could do is bring a rubber bottle and let them hit each other in the head. And then the kid who asked the best questions, sometimes I would, like, let him break a bottle over another kid's head, you know, But I'd tell him, surprise everybody. And, you know, they're pretty mild, you

[Guest/Interviewer]

know, that must have been the coolest thing for your kid to be like, my dad's stuntman. Like, I like that. To me, if I was a child in that class, I'd be like, you have the coolest dad that has ever lived. You know what I mean?

[Chris Barnes]

I don't know if your own kids ever think that of you.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair.

[Chris Barnes]

But it's a nice thought. I mean, I still have all, like, the thank you cards and posters that they sent to me and pictures of me with the class because I had three boys. So I, you know, and then, you know, having a stunt career, especially in New York, where you're working daily, you do get a lot of time off. And I tell people, you know, got to go be the lunch monitor. You got to be the playground monitor. You got to go in on book day and talk. And, you know, it's a fun thing to do. I mean, if you want to be involved with your kids, you know, growing

[Guest/Interviewer]

up, did any of your kids decide to go into stunt work?

[Chris Barnes]

All three of them are professional stuntmen. What?

[Marshall P. Pope (voice actor or character)]

Whoa.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Yeah, it's a family business.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Just like. Just like Sas Pataki.

[Chris Barnes]

Oh, right, yeah.

[Ben Smith]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Barnes]

We didn't mention that Ultra Queen gag. That was. That girl was pretty talented. That young lady that we used. She was young. She was young. She happened to be younger than you probably think. She just happened to be tall because so was Szaz. But yeah, all three of my boys are professionals. That's what they do.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Wow, that is so cool.

[Ryan Tillotson]

After the break, Only Murders stunt coordinator Chris Barnes tells us how possible an on set disaster like Rex Bailey really is.

[Maggie Bowles]

Welcome back. Chris Barnes is the stunt coordinator for Only Murders in the Building. And so in addition to all of the other stunts we've seen this season, he was responsible for coordinating the fire.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Can you, like, walk us through what the process is for, say, the scene where you're setting somebody on fire?

[Chris Barnes]

Yeah, when you're setting somebody on fire. Well, obviously you talk about it. You find out what the director needs, talk to the ad. You find the time frame that you have to do this fire, and that's pretty important. Everything with fire is based on time. Not only the time it takes to physically prepare the clothes with the gels. You don't want to put the gels on too early. They start to dry.

[Ryan Tillotson]

And tell me about the gels. Like, what. What are they? And the gels protective or they are. They. Tell me about the gels.

[Chris Barnes]

Yeah, well, those gels we're talking about are protective gels. There are gels that are accelerants also. But you don't want to get those two confused. So you keep things very separate. Those gels are barrier. They're usually cooler in temperature. But there's something that was scientifically designed. Originally there was a man named Gary Zeller, and we call it the Zell gel. He's long gone, but he's actually won, I think, Academy Award in, not in stunts, because they don't have them, but because he wanted in advancements for pyrotechnics or special effects by creating that Zell. And pretty much most people who are using some form of a gel barrier, which everybody. Most everybody is, Is some form of, probably derives from half of the contents of the original Zel gel, which I don't even know if it's still available.

[Ryan Tillotson]

But do you put that gel all over your body or do you just put it on, like, say you light your hand on fire. You just put it on your hand?

[Chris Barnes]

Well, you would put it on the part of your body that's burning and you would put it near anything. Like if your hand had to come and, you know, I don't know, put out a fire that's on your shoulder, you'd obviously put the gel on. You put a barrier of Nomex, which is a fire, fire retardant underwear that race car drivers use. You would soak that in the gel and then you would put that on. And then if you have to have wardrobe and wardrobe is going to need to be dry, you would put on some sort of like kind of an asbestos suit or something that wouldn't let the moisture or the water bleed through, so it doesn't make your clothes look all wet and spotty. So, you know, if you're coming down the street and somebody's going to ignite you for some reason, you don't want the person coming down looking like there are, you know, like they just walked through a rainstorm or something. So there's barriers and protection levels that you use.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Interesting.

[Guest/Interviewer]

It sounds like they're a bit slimy. Sounds like a salamander.

[Chris Barnes]

Oh, yeah. No, it's not really fun. Or maybe it is fun to be all filled with gel. I mean, I've done full body burns where my whole body has been, you know, all my clothes are complete. My socks, my gloves, everything are completely soaked in gel. And then like I said, then you even put a Pair of dry Nomex long underwear on. And then you might put the barrier on. The barrier is not fire retardant at all because it would melt eventually. But you're just trying to keep the wardrobe. Once the fire is happening, it doesn't matter. That thing burns away.

[Maggie Bowles]

Wow.

[Ryan Tillotson]

So who is the stuntman that portrayed the Jin Ha character?

[Ben Smith]

Marshall Peep or Rex?

[Ryan Tillotson]

Marshall P. Pope.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Who is that man?

[Chris Barnes]

Su Liu is his name. Pretty experienced stunt guy. Done a lot of live shows, done some acrobatics, does a lot of martial arts and stuff. Very talented stunt person. And so I had asked him about his burn experience, because that's pretty important. I didn't know if we needed a rehearsal day. And, you know, murders or any big show or any show is not a place for people to learn and do their first fire. I don't know how they're going to react. I don't know if they could potentially panic. I don't know if they'd be cautious because, you know, they're still performing during a fire. They still have to hit certain marks. They still have to get up, they have to hit the ground. They have to be able to tell the safety team that if they're feeling hot. So there's a lot to it. So you don't tend to just put a new guy in a fire. Everybody needs their first fire, but hopefully it's done at a school or a class. So when I asked sue what his fire experience was, he kind of undersold himself, but he was just being humble. And then he showed me some reels and ice, and they were quite impressive. And I said, okay, we got the right guy. Where I felt he didn't need a rehearsal because, you know, to rehearse a full burn like that, anytime you do a full burn is a tremendous risk, no matter what. So it wasn't the type that needed rehearsal. After I saw what he could do, and he's, you know, somebody who definitely listens, hits his marks, you know, in

[Guest/Interviewer]

the episode, he catches fire again and he accidentally burns Ron Howard's eyebrows off. Have you ever heard of anything like, can you catch fire again after a fire stunt? Is that a. Is that a real thing?

[Chris Barnes]

Oh, yeah. I mean, fire is number one. Fuel is, you know, beyond the accelerant itself is feeding it air. So because you stay down on the ground until the guys completely put you out with CO2 or maybe even, you know, with. Might have a Hudson sprayer with some water in it and stuff like that, and you make sure you're Completely out. Then you stand up and put your arms in the air, and the guys circle you and they ask you, do you feel hot or are there any hot spots? So there's a whole process that happens. Marshall, in this case, was so excited. As a young actor or a young stuntman, he sees this famous director and he jumps up prematurely and runs. Well, obviously, when you run, you're really. It's like blowing air on a fire. It can actually accelerate it. So, yeah, he kind of, you know, was the victim of his own wrongdoing. Now, granted, just his arm. You saw it, I think from my understanding, just his arm went on fire. But that's all they really needed.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Yeah. So it's possible. Very possible.

[Chris Barnes]

Oh, yeah.

[Guest/Interviewer]

How many times have you been set on fire as a stuntman?

[Chris Barnes]

Oh, I did a television show called Rescue Me, which was a fireman show. I honestly couldn't tell you how many times I've been on fire. You know, mostly it's partials, but I've done quite a few full burns. I double Bam Marjara in a movie where I ran out of a building on fire, tripped, fell, tried to get into a car, jumped in a car, and then drove the car down the street. That's probably the biggest one I've ever done.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Wow, that is huge.

[Ryan Tillotson]

I thought Bam was known for, like,

[Guest/Interviewer]

doing stunts, maybe not full body burns.

[Chris Barnes]

Well, quote, unquote, Bam came to me afterwards, and he says, I do a lot of shit, and I heard a lot of people. He goes, but that's something. I'm so glad you did. So, quote, quote, unquote, that was a long time ago.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Is there anything you feel like people get wrong about stunts?

[Ryan Tillotson]

You mean, like, trying to get into the stunt?

[Maggie Bowles]

No, no.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Like, just like. I feel like it's like. It's like behind the scenes of all these movies, right? Like, if a stunt is doing the right thing, you forget that it's a stuntman, and you just think about the actor. You know what I mean? So it's like, it's meant to be, this sort of movie magic. And so I wonder, is there anything. You're like, people don't realize this about stunts, but we are not daredevils. We're safety oriented. You know, I don't know. That was something that I want to say. One of the writers told us.

[Chris Barnes]

I mean, you just hit it on the head and you didn't get there till the very end. But if the biggest fallacy I would think would be that, yes, people think we're crazy. People think we're daredevils. People think we're in it for the limelight. I think none of those are really true. I don't want the kid that comes up to me, and I get it all the time. I want to be a stunt guy. I'm crazy. I'll jump off that roof. You tell me what to do, I'll do it right now. I'd rather person who's cautious and thinks about it and calculates it and figures out, hey, how can I do that? How can I do that and do that seven times? Because most stunts are going to be done a couple times depending on how big they are. And, you know, I get stunt people that, you know now a lot of times they want a stunt person who can not only deliver the lines. My first thing for any person who wants to be a stunt person is go to acting school. Because now we're getting, you know, production's gotten smarter. They've gotten, you know what more efficient. And instead of doubling a cop who's chasing somebody up the fire escape or running down a hall and tripping and falling or down the steps, they're casting a stunt person. So, you know, to be able to act and be a stunt person. So, you know, originally, I think most of the stunt people, you know, did not want to go to auditions. They did not want to deliver lines. They just wanted to come in and slide a car or be involved in a bar fight or do something like that. And now I think acting is probably your biggest or one of your bigger stunt tools right now that you can have in your stunt bag. You know, I mean, you're still going to have to be willing to take risk and calculate things and figure things out. But good acting background. I mean, I tell them we're all in Screen Actors Guild for a reason. We're actors first and foremost, and we're stuntmen second. Really, as much as they don't want to believe it, that's, you know, that's what I tell them.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Interesting.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Okay, Very interesting.

[Ryan Tillotson]

What is like, your favorite stunt to do or a stunt that you've always wanted to do and haven't done?

[Chris Barnes]

I really like a good bar room brawl where, you know, and we got to do one here. It wasn't huge, but I was very, very satisfied. And that does not come out of a stunt coordinator's mouth much when they see the final product. Because, you know, we have to remember this isn't the fall guy. And, you know, we always expect more. We always wish we sat in the editing room, you know, and we don't. So I think just going back to my roots, I'm not into the whole, you know, Bruce Lee and the martial arts because that's not my background. Although, ironically, my dad owned six judo schools and I played competitive judo till I was well into my 30s. But not my background, not anything I wanted to do do. I love a bar room brawl, people being pulled over, the bar chairs flying, people smashing into pianos. I mean, I, you know, I know that's probably not the grandiose, so, I mean, you might want to hear I want to crash a biplane into a barn. But I don't know if that's a reality anymore or, you know, if anybody's going to let me do that. I think I'd have to learn to fly first. But, yeah, yeah. So like I said, I never gave it a lot of thought what I would like to do. I mean, I love doing water stuff, you know, and I've got to do a lot flip boats. I love doing reenactments for shows like Forensic Fire Fires and Law Firms and stuff. That's really not part of the. The television business. But I've done some serious reenactments where I've been brought into the police impound yard and looked at the boats and figured out. And then I have. Then it's my job to go out on the water and recreate that crash.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Whoa.

[Chris Barnes]

That's a challenge to me, you know, and I have to do it accurate.

[Guest/Interviewer]

That's like science.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Yeah.

[Chris Barnes]

Oh, yeah, notice. Exactly. Forensics, right?

[Guest/Interviewer]

Yeah, that's. That's wild.

[Chris Barnes]

I've done it for law firms, I've done it for the TV show Forensic Files. And so probably that's really my favorite, is working on the water and doing reenactments that are, you know, more true to life.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Very cool.

[Ryan Tillotson]

After the break, the sad demise of Glenn Stubbins and some theories.

[Maggie Bowles]

Welcome back. In this episode, Glenn Stubbins, Ben Glenroy, stunt double played by Paul Rudd, is murdered as soon as he wakes up from his coma, we assume by the same person who killed Szazz and has her phone. Here's Ben Smith and Alex Bigelow, the writers of the episode.

[Ben Smith]

You know, when we conceived of the character, admittedly he was just a pure comedy character. Like Paul Rudd's willing to come back. Great. Let's lean into this idea that he looks like Ben Glenroy and let's play that he knew Szasz and he can give us more information about Szazz's life. Just because we're having a character on the inside of the stunting world. And then when we reached this point in the season, we realized, oh, there could be this kind of sadder ending for him. And, you know, we'd kind of thought, you know, we were writing these scenes like they just in love with the nurse, and we were like, kind of laughing, laughing. And then one day we watched. They had to film his. His death before the rest of the show. The rest of the episode was filmed because of Paul's schedule, so we were still, like, in the process of writing it. And we just wrote Paul's scenes and sent him off. And they filmed them like, a month before the rest of the episode. And I remember the dailies came back, and Biggs and I were here in LA watching those scenes, and we're like, oh, my God, this is heartbreaking and horrible to watch him be smothered. And we're like, okay, well, this needs to serve some real narrative purpose. And so to build that relationship between him and Rex Bailey and that whole story felt like his character served more than just a comedy purpose in the season, which was nice.

[Chris Barnes]

It's you. What?

[Ryan Tillotson]

No, no, no, no.

[Marshall P. Pope (voice actor or character)]

Go, go, go, go, go, go.

[Guest/Interviewer]

This season, you're tying it all back to season one and some plot holes, quote, unquote. Can you tell us about, like, what. That. We talked about it a little bit with Kristin Newman and Jake Schnoezel, but I would love to hear both of your perspectives on that choice this season.

[Ben Smith]

Oh, gosh, I feel like that's above my pay grade. What did they say?

[Guest/Interviewer]

They were explaining how the room had been planning this for four seasons.

[Ben Smith]

I will say that when I was working on season one, I guess I felt as though there were some answers for those questions, but they were. That was my own canon, I guess. You know, like, I guess at the time, I guess I would say I did not think of them as plot holes. I thought of them as. I guess I'd attribute it all to Jan, that Jan had poisoned Winnie, that Jan had left a note on her door to hide any sense of guilt. And then other stuff that wasn't explained can be chalked up to poor writing. But I think that. But I think this worked out. I loved how it turned out in the season that we kind of like, use that as an opportunity to be like, oh, if there was another murder or death in the building, what would people in that building be doing to stop this new trio of people who've made it their mission to solve mystery? They would panic and they would try to dissuade it. So I thought that was a very fun way to circle back into, address those kind of lingering questions, I guess. Long story short, at the time, I wasn't thinking, look at these little plot holes, But I think it was very fun to kind of circle back, especially in a season that was making a movie about season one. That made a lot of sense to revisit it.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Definitely.

[Ben Smith]

But maybe people above my pay grade had a master plan the whole time.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Both things can be true.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Absolutely.

[Ben Smith]

Also, I just want to shout out Biggs. This is Biggs first episode that she's written and she crushed it.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Yes, you did.

[Ryan Tillotson]

It was so great.

[Guest/Interviewer]

And this is a big episode too. This is a lot. It's a lot and it's very funny.

[Alex Bigelow]

Thank you, guys. I feel very lucky and had the best time co writing with Ben. We had so much fun. It was just basically a lot of giggles, which is. And it felt easy, you know, that's. I feel like the sign of a great episode.

[Ben Smith]

I do think it was kind of the easiest story to break all season. And I think truly. And I think part of that is actually because we just finished that whole, you know, season one plot holster. Like, a lot of it was like, kind of hidden and, you know, little tease. And now that that story kind of like culminated in eight, it was like, great. We can tell very kind of straightforward story here and just like, create our own little complications and twists, but not anything as big as what we've been doing beforehand. It was very fun.

[Alex Bigelow]

Yeah. I felt like we had the sass flashbacks to weave in, but otherwise it was just a classic. Like, the trio has a mission to figure something out, and it's their journey of finding it.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Definitely.

[Maggie Bowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Okay, it's that time again. Time to read some theories, some emails.

[Maggie Bowles]

But first, we are nearing the end of the season and so the opportunity to submit to win tickets to the

[Ryan Tillotson]

LA escape room or New York Escape room.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Yes.

[Maggie Bowles]

That's closing. We're closing that up because the finale is soon.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We will be announcing the winners on the final episode of this podcast for season four, which will air on Friday, November 1st.

[Maggie Bowles]

That means that your last opportunity to submit to the contest will be when part one airs on Wednesday.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's correct.

[Maggie Bowles]

October 30th.

[Guest/Interviewer]

All right.

[Maggie Bowles]

Also, the Easter egg this week, very obvious one. Big green screens above the Arconia foreshadowing the set of Escape from Planet Clongo.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Thank you to everyone that emailed. Janet J. Darnell, Jackie L. Gabby A. Alexandra L. Morgan H. Alex D. Nina S. Very Good.

[Maggie Bowles]

Very good. Jamie G. Sent an email asking us to listen to Murder by Numbers by the police.

[Ryan Tillotson]

We put it on.

[Maggie Bowles]

We did. We listened. They were wondering if the lyrics maybe inspired the show. I didn't really see it, but who knows? That doesn't mean it's not inspired.

[Guest/Interviewer]

We will. At the next opportunity. We will.

[Maggie Bowles]

We'll find out if there's something in there. But I did remember in season one with the I'm watching you things. That's a famous Sting lyric from Every Breath youh Take.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Interesting.

[Maggie Bowles]

And I don't remember if we made

[Guest/Interviewer]

that connection in season one, because Sting

[Ryan Tillotson]

was obviously present in season one.

[Guest/Interviewer]

Exactly.

[Maggie Bowles]

Maybe he was the. I don't know.

[Guest/Interviewer]

So maybe Sting is the mastermind here. That's my point.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Lindy S, after watching Lifeboat, was wondering if Helga and Sazh. Maybe they're related.

[Maggie Bowles]

I mean, they do. They are tall, blonde women. So it's true. Yeah.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Do you think she'll feel different after watching episode 9?

[Maggie Bowles]

I would love to know.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Let us know, Lindy.

[Maggie Bowles]

Okay, now here's Hannah with the Reddit scoop.

Hey, Maggie.

Hey, Ryan.

And hey, everyone. Escape from Planet Kongo was another fantastic episode and I don't want to take the credit, but our sub members had totally called. Some of these reveals, I'm always so amazed at how much they pick up on. But without further ado, here are the final season four theories from the only murders in the building subreddit. After an entire season of suspecting Marshall and this week's reveal, people are now wondering if it could all be one final red herring. Here is current value 9270's theory. Marshall's not the mastermind. He is being controlled by someone who doesn't want the movie to be made. And that's the same person who wants to stop the podcast. The mastermind knows he stole the script and is using it to blackmail him into doing their bidding. The first order was to kill the trio, beginning with Charles. And Staz was never the intended target. So when he discovers her body, he panics and leaves lots of evidence behind. I don't think Marshall knows who's blackmailing him. It's a two person job, but only one of them is doing the heavy lifting. I think Marshal will go down for killing Glenn and Saz, but. But the real mastermind could be revealed next season. Then we have M. Bridget with a theory about who could possibly be in cahoots with Marshall. They say I think that Bev hired Marshall to kill Saz and Glenn Stubbins. Bev promised Marshall the writer credit if he killed Saz. And maybe Saz was going to back out on the movie idea and Bev didn't want that to happen, so she put out a hit on Saz. Then we've got another popular theory brought to us by natcatb73 and it relates to this season's theme of doubles. This season has focused a lot on doubles. What if Rex Bailey isn't Marshall but Marshall's twin brother? They may have committed the murder together. Or maybe Marshall isn't even involved in the killings. All we know for sure is that he stole Staz's script. We also saw him kill Glenn, but this could have been his twin. Now, while most people are focusing on Marshall after what we saw in episode nine, some members still aren't convinced that the Westies are completely innocent. And Rudy's name keeps coming back in the conversation here is Upset Heat's 6876 theory. I'm putting my money on Rudy. He wasn't playing oh hell with the rest of the Westies when Saz got shot. He's fit enough to have done it all in such a short period of time. He knew that bit of non tinsel wouldn't burn and he served Mabel and Eva eggnog with ground deerhoof. Was it a joke? If not, then where would he get that? Maybe he's a hunter, so he's good at shooting. Like Charles said before, the casing from the rifle was popular in the 60s amongst hunters. Rudy knew the building, he knew Dudanoff's apartment was empty and he knew about the incinerator. We're led to believe it was Marshal, but how would he know about Dudenoff's apartment and the incinerator, etc. I think he stole the script, but nothing more. An unexpected name is also starting to emerge following that dry cleaning news segment shown on the television in the hospital. Here are potential classic89's thoughts on that. My theory on Marshall's accomplice is Lester and the cleanup crew Dry cleaning van at the end credits, Lester is often seen bringing dry cleaning in and out the building, and ever since the episode my theory has been that Lester called Charles about the window so it gave him an excuse to be in the apartment. If someone saw him or asked why his fingerprints would have been there. Or maybe he needed to do something in his apartment, perhaps adjust the cameras after the murder. Also, would a doorman have keys to all the apartments? And we also know Lester's wife washed up actor who could maybe be holding a grudge. Plus, in a previous season, Lester gave Charles his hat back because he left it somewhere. I think maybe Lester used it to disguise himself as Charles while sneaking around. Something about that scene was suspicious to me. And finally, we have Brighttop 5691 with a wish for upcoming seasons of the show. I love how they killed Paul Rudd twice on this show. I'm kind of hoping they make it a running gag and bring him back as a different character every season just to kill him again. That's it for me. Thank you for listening. I can't wait to see if some of these theories turn out to be true and join us for more on the Only Murders in the Building subreddit.

[Ryan Tillotson]

That's it for today. Thank you so much. So much for listening.

[Maggie Bowles]

Even though there's only one episode left, if you have thoughts, if you have theories and you want to send them to us, please do only murders strawmedia.com

[Ryan Tillotson]

take a minute to subscribe, rate the show, follow us and leave us a review if you enjoy the show.

[Maggie Bowles]

Only Murders in the Building podcast is a production of Straw Hat Media, hosted and produced by Ryan Tilton and Maggie Bowles. Our associate producer is Stephen Markley with original music by Kyle Merritt and Only Murders in the Building theme music by Siddhartha Khosla. Our assistant editor is Daniel Ferreira and our production assistant is Caroline Mendoza.

[Ryan Tillotson]

Thank you so much to Chris Barnes, Alex Bigelow, and Ben Smith for talking with us this week.

[Maggie Bowles]

And big, big thanks as always to John Hoffman and the entire Hulu team.

[Ryan Tillotson]

See you soon for the final.