Final Thoughts: Jerry Springer | Baggage | 9

Summary

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OnlyFantasy | Final Thoughts: Jerry Springer | Baggage | Episode 9 (May 7, 2026)

Host: Leon Neyfakh
Main Theme:
In this final chapter, host Leon Neyfakh explores Jerry Springer’s deep-rooted struggle between political ambition and the baggage of his notorious TV persona. Through interviews with Ohio political figures and Springer's confidants, the episode examines whether, in a post-Trump America, Springer's past as the "grandfather of trash TV" was still disqualifying or had become newly relevant. Neyfakh reflects on the elusive boundary between profession and personal identity, using Springer’s story as a lens on societal judgment and second chances.

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Episode Overview

• Examination of Jerry Springer's attempts to redeem his public image through a return to politics after his long-running tabloid show.
• Analysis of the impact of Trump's election on perceptions of celebrity candidates.
• Reflections from fellow politicians, friends, and Springer himself, on whether personal “baggage” can ever be set aside in American public life.
• Thematic focus on the tension between who we are and what we do for a living.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Air America & Political Redemption (00:00–08:38)

• John Sinton’s inspiration for founding Air America came after hearing Limbaugh denigrate feminists on the radio (00:29). His daughter asked: “Daddy, can you not do something about that?” spurring action.
• Springer’s pursuit of redemption:
  • Jerry Springer approaches Sinton to host a serious political radio show, motivated by his family’s lack of pride in his tabloid work:
  • “My wife and my daughter are not proud of what I do for a living. And before I die, I would like to make them proud...I’d like to redeem my humanity.” —Jerry Springer (as recalled by Sinton, 02:36)
  • Willing to work without pay, underscores desire for respect and new identity.
• Springer on the Radio launches in 2005, revealing the ‘authentic’ Jerry: thoughtful commentary, concern for social issues, and candid personal stories.
  • “If anyone was interested in the real Jerry Springer, they could hear him on the radio. Whether I'm joking around or expressing my point of view, it’s me.” —Springer (reported by Neyfakh, 06:59)
• Air America collapses due to financial struggles; Springer’s political path again stalls.

2. The Trump Factor & Legacy Politics (08:38–19:23)

• Parallel to Trump:
  • Neyfakh observes: Trump's rise made a Springer candidacy seem less implausible (09:08).
  • “Trump's constituency is basically mine.” —Springer (09:08)
• Reflections from Ted Strickland (former governor):
  • Springer’s political baggage (the TV show exploiting vulnerable people) seemed disqualifying, but post-Trump, Strickland concedes:
    • “If they would embrace a man like Donald Trump, why in the hell would they hold judgment over Jerry Springer? Trump lowered the bar. He really did.” (26:07)
  • Strickland ultimately comes to compartmentalize Springer’s TV persona and his values as a politician.

3. The "Baggage" Metaphor—Literally and Figuratively (13:55–15:16)

• Springer's second act as a dating show host on “Baggage”:
  • The show’s premise—that everyone carries baggage, and it limits opportunities—becomes a fitting metaphor for Springer’s own life and political aspirations.
  • “Is this baggage something you can handle?” —Jerry Springer (14:17)

4. Springer’s 2018 Gubernatorial Ambitions (19:05–33:03)

• Revitalized by Trump’s election, Springer contemplates a run for Ohio governor in 2018.
• Strategic endorsements:
  • Bill DeMora (Ohio state senator) and Jeanine Boyd (state representative) believe Springer’s celebrity could re-engage blue-collar Trump voters (18:25, 19:05), especially since “he talked to them, not down to them.”
  • Boyd facilitates meetings with black lawmakers, noting Springer's genuine curiosity and listening skills (22:10).
  • “He knows how to speak to people who are attention-seeking, who are disruptive and not always honest...He created a space for people like Trump.” —Jeanine Boyd (22:54)
• Internal obstacles:
  • Springer demurs on running, citing age and the personal cost, despite polls indicating he’d be competitive.
  • The entry of establishment Democrat Richard Cordray dooms Springer's chances; party stalwarts can’t separate Springer the candidate from Springer the showman.

5. “Who Are We, If Not What We Do?”—Final Thoughts & Legacy (35:07–39:33)

• The episode closes with a poignant meditation on occupation & identity, featuring one of Springer's characteristic “final thoughts.”
  • “In our culture, it's the second question we ask someone upon meeting them...we are judged by our occupation or even lack of one.” —Springer (36:51)
  • Neyfakh reflects that although Springer wished for personal reinvention, he was always defined by the show he couldn't leave behind.
  • “Nobody forces these choices on us…we make choices, and we live with our choices. And he certainly did that.” —David Leland, former Springer adviser (34:02)

6. Irreconcilable Duality: Springer the Politician vs. Springer the TV Host (33:03–40:52)

• Friends observe a split identity:
  • Ted Strickland: “There were two different Jerrys in there, and there just wasn’t enough room for both of them.” (33:18)
  • John Snow (friend):
    • “It’s just a stupid show.” … “Money talks and bullshit walks. That's why he did it...If they said, Leon, all right, you gotta stop doing these podcasts...and we’re gonna give you, like, $2 million a month to referee midgets in mud wrestling. You’ll stop the podcast.” (40:00)
• Neyfakh posits: Perhaps Jerry’s story is less about “selling out” and more about “settling in”—letting time and circumstances dictate one's fate.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Springer’s personal drive:
  • “My wife and my daughter are not proud of what I do for a living. And before I die, I would like to make them proud.” —Springer (via Sinton, 02:36)
• Self-awareness about baggage:
  • “The show, in traditional political terms, is what you would call baggage.” —Jerry Springer (14:02)
• Impact of work on identity:
  • “In our culture, it's the second question we ask someone upon meeting them...we are judged by our occupation or even lack of one.” —Springer (36:51)
• On choices and legacy:
  • “Nobody forces these choices on us…we make choices, and we live with our choices. And he certainly did that.” —David Leland (34:02)
• Bracing honesty about motivation:
  • “Money talks and bullshit walks. That’s why he did it. Money is money. That’s it.” —John Snow (40:00)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:00–03:14: Air America’s genesis; Springer's pitch for radio redemption.
• 03:46–06:59: Springer’s candid radio monologues, listener calls, and family stories.
• 09:08–13:55: Trump’s impact on the plausibility of a Springer candidacy; political baggage.
• 14:17–15:16: “Baggage” as a game show and life metaphor.
• 18:25–22:54: Springer's post-2016 political flirtations; support from key Ohio Democrats.
• 26:07–27:10: Strickland’s change in perspective post-Trump.
• 31:23–33:03: Springer’s emotional public decision not to run for governor.
• 36:51–39:18: Springer's “final thoughts” on identity and work.
• 40:00: John Snow’s blunt take on Springer’s career choices.

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Tone and Structure

Leon Neyfakh’s narration is intimate, reflective, and analytical, blending quotes from politicians and personal friends with Springer's own words to paint a complex, sometimes melancholic portrait. The episode avoids hagiography, instead leaning into the tension between aspiration and reality, and between the public and private faces we all wear.

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Summary Verdict:
This episode closes the book on Jerry Springer's political ambitions, exploring whether true reinvention is possible after a life of high-profile compromise. Neyfakh uses candid interviews, sharp cultural insight, and Springer's own voice to ask whether, in America, what you do is inevitably who you are—or if, sometimes, we all just settle in for the ride.

Transcript

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Like many liberals, John Sinton was mad after George W. Bush won the 2000 election. He credits his daughter with inspiring him to do something with his anger.

[John Sinton]

I was driving with my tween age daughter and I had Rush Limbaugh on the car radio.

[John Snow]

Feminists.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Did you hear that?

[John Snow]

I mean, look, on one hand you are nothing but sex objects, stalkers, unstable, maniacal Jesus.

[John Sinton]

We were on our way to the gym and, man, he started talking about feminazis and all kinds of horrible stuff. And my daughter says to me, daddy, can you not do something about that? And that, honestly, was the inception of the idea for Air America.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Air America would be a radio network that would serve as a liberal counterweight to right wing talk radio, where hosts like Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck had found massive audiences. Sinton started building a lineup that would include funny and cerebral on air personalities like Rachel Maddow, then a complete unknown, and former SNL comedian Al Franken.

[Ted Strickland]

Air America Radio.

[John Sinton]

Real facts in a filtered world with even more intensity.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Around the time Air America launched in 2004, Sinton got a call from an old friend who told him that Jerry Springer wanted to make a show for him. It would be a serious show about politics and current events and other serious things.

[John Sinton]

Initially I was like, yeah, I don't think so. That's probably not going to happen.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Sinton's friend was a radio executive at Clear Channel who knew Springer from Cincinnati. He asked Sinton to at least have a conversation with Springer and hear him out.

[John Sinton]

I mean, I did blanch a little bit and I said, look, I know you're friends with Jerry, but this guy is the referee of a daily show where people throw chairs at pregnant teenagers. And I don't know how we're going to square that circle with our listeners.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

It had been less than two years at this point since Springer abandoned his brief, tortured bid for the U.S. senate. The polling and the media coverage had been clear. Springer's television show made him radioactive. Some voters thought he was ridiculous, some thought he was evil. Air America seemed like a place where Springer could show a different side of himself. Sinton was curious, so he overcame his misgivings and agreed to fly to Chicago to have lunch with Springer. The first thing he asked him was, why do you want this?

[John Sinton]

And what he said to me was, my wife and my daughter are not proud of what I do for a living. And before I die, I would like to make them proud. We have generational wealth. My wife and I are set for life. My daughter is set and Now I would like to try to redeem my. I don't remember how he put it. I think he might have said, I'd like to redeem my humanity.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Over lunch, Sinton found Springer to be smart, warm, and fun to talk to. Plus, he seemed to really want the gig. He wasn't even asking to be paid for it.

[John Sinton]

He said, Look, I make $10 million a year from this TV show. I'm getting older. The show is schtick. It's not who I am, it's what I do. But who I am is really a liberal pundit and politician, and I would just love the opportunity. And you don't have to pay me. And I have my own aircraft. If you need me to come to New York to do the show, I'll fly in and do the show. And so that was the beginning of an agreement.

[Jerry Springer]

Jerry Springer on the radio.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

On April 1, 2005, Springer on the Radio debuted on Air America in the 9am to 12pm time slot. The show, which Springer recorded in Cincinnati, was broadcast on 45 radio stations across the country.

[Jerry Springer]

Hello, America and everyone across the sea. Jerry Springer here. Let's play radio. Okay, Bunch of things to talk about today.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Springer was on the air Monday through Friday for three full hours, during which he delivered extended monologues on the issues of the day, everything from the war in Iraq to tax policy to electoral politics.

[Jerry Springer]

These people love the idea of being the president, being in charge, but there's no fundamental philosophy or vision which drives them to this position.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

It was like a supercharged version of the commentary Springer used to deliver on the Channel 5 news in Cincinnati. Just listen to this riff.

[Jerry Springer]

I have never met a human being that chose to be born, where to be born, when to be born, to whom to be born with, what kind of health to be born with, with what kind of brain to have. Whether you'll be born into a wealthy family in a great country, whatever, 99.9% of what we are, we had nothing to do with. Got it? Nothing to do.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

In between these soliloquies, or rants, as he called them, Springer would take calls from listeners. Most people called in to share their opinion on abortion or poverty or education. One time, Springer talked to a guy who had served 18 years in prison for murder.

[Jerry Springer]

Were you an adult when you committed the murder? No, no, I was a boy. I was 17. Oh, okay.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

We found one call in segment where a woman named Charmy from Michigan says to Springer, right on, brother Jerry, you are an ambassador to the middle class. Actually, why am I quoting her, you should just hear her say it.

[John Sinton]

Right on. Brother Jerry, you are the ambassador to the middle class.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Sometimes Springer would get personal, like, really personal. One time he talked about his father getting old and his mother worrying about his driving.

[Jerry Springer]

Every time I would come home from college or law school or whatever, she would take me aside and said, could you please, could you please. I'm sorry, could you please speak to dad and, you know, get him not to. Not to drive the car anymore.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

When Springer's dad got into his late 70s, Springer finally asked him to give up his car.

[Jerry Springer]

He says, I'll tell you what, I'll get rid of it when I'm 80. And I said, well, why, why do you keep it anymore? You hardly ever drive it. And he says, you never know when you have to get away. You never know when you have to get away. And it struck me then, oh, my God, this holocaust is still with him. It's still with him, you know, that never left.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

You can tell. Springer put his whole self into the Air America show. In fact, he told a reporter at the time that if anyone was interested in the real Jerry Springer, they could hear him on the radio. Whether I'm joking around or expressing my point of view, it's me, he said. I'm not trying to create a Persona there. As much as Springer loved doing his Air America show, it ended after only two years. And Air America itself, which had been plagued from the beginning by financial troubles, wasn't far behind. In 2007, Al Franken, the network's undisputed star, announced he would be leaving to run for Senate in Minnesota, a race he won. Rachel Maddow, meanwhile, started her show on MSNBC and became a breakout star. Air America declared bankruptcy and shut down in 2010.

[John Sinton]

You know, Jerry would muse about running for the Senate from Ohio or other things. We talked about it all the time. But my impression was that the trade off was way too difficult, that he would stand the chance of losing, and that he would be left without his TV show and wouldn't be holding office.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Instead, Springer kept hosting the Jerry Springer show, and he kept hosting it for the better part of another decade. Ladies and gentlemen, just voted the worst

[Ted Strickland]

show in the on history of television.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Here's our host, Sherry Springer. And then in 2015, there was an unexpected development.

[Jerry Springer]

Ladies and gentlemen, I am officially running for President of the United States, and we are going to make our country great again.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

As Donald Trump's candidacy for the Republican nomination gathered strength in the lead up to the 2016 election, a funny thing happened. To Jerry Springer's prospects. All of a sudden, the idea of electing a guy best known for a trashy television show didn't seem quite as far fetched as it once did. Maybe in a world where Trump could be elected president, voters would be more open to putting Jerry Springer in office, stupid TV show and all. After President Trump's election, Jerry Springer is considering a run. Quote, trump's constituency is basically mine. He was in his 70s. Now it was time to start thinking about his legacy and the mark he would leave on the world. And there was a governor's race coming up in Ohio. I'm leon naifak from audible originals and prologue projects. This is final thoughts. Jerry springer, Chapter nine, Baggage.

[Ted Strickland]

Excuse my language, But I think J.D. vance is a piece of human garbage. I'm the real hillbilly from Ohio and I actually grew up and lived in Appalachia.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Ted Strickland is a dyed in the wool Ohio Democrat. He entered politics around the same time Jerry Springer did, or at least he tried to.

[Ted Strickland]

As a graduate student. I ran for Congress in 76 and 78 and again in 1980, and I lost all three of those races.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

You'll recall Springer suffered his own electoral defeat around this time when he lost the Democratic nomination for governor in 1982. That was when he pivoted to television with the intention of returning to politics down the line. Strickland, for his part, decided to hang it up.

[Ted Strickland]

And I said, I'm going to take, I think it was W.C. field's advice, try, try again, then give up, and don't make a fool out of yourself.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Strickland, who had been a graduate student in clinical psychology, dedicated himself to working in community mental health. His job was to track down people believed to be experiencing mental health emergencies and to decide whether or not they needed to be involuntarily hospitalized. But eventually, politics came calling yet again.

[Ted Strickland]

Then 10 years later, I decided to try it again. And lo and behold, I won with 51% of the vote. And I went to Congress and I worked hard and I was really a good congressman.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

By the time Strickland started his first term In Congress in 1993, Jerry Springer was already doing his talk show. And while Strickland told me that he had always really liked Springer as a person and as a politician, the talk show never sat well with him.

[Ted Strickland]

To me, he was just this bright, exciting, kind, empathetic person that embraced all the values that I considered important in terms of public policy. And yet, you know, as a, as a psychologist, I sometimes cringed seeing his show because part of it seemed as if he was exploiting the pain and suffering of others. I mean, they were so many of them, very dysfunctional people who probably thought getting that kind of public exposure was the best thing that ever happened to them. And that bothered me.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

It was on this basis that when Springer was first being talked about as a possible Senate candidate back in 1999, Strickland told a reporter that if Springer ran, he wouldn't even share a stage with him. He hurts people, Strickland said. He abuses damaged, vulnerable people for his own purpose.

[Ted Strickland]

Ohio, as you know, was considered a swing state, but it was always considered a slightly right of center state. And so I think there was just a concern that perhaps Jerry had too much baggage.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Of course, Springer knew he had baggage. He said as much in that 2003 infomercial you heard in the previous chapter.

[Jerry Springer]

The show, in traditional political terms, is what you would call baggage.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Now, I feel I would not be doing my job if I didn't mention here that at one point after he left Air America, Springer started hosting a dating show on the game show network called Baggage.

[Jerry Springer]

Is this baggage something you can handle?

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

The concept of baggage was that everyone has it, and sometimes it prevents us from getting what we want. Contestants had to decide which secrets, red flags, and moral transgressions they were willing to accept in a potential partner.

[Jerry Springer]

This is Nikki. She's got a secret, and it's hidden inside this red bag. Did she fake a serious illness to get cash from her ex? Was she a webcam stripper? Or is her father a woman? We'll open up this bag and a whole lot more. Coming up on Baggage.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Depending on how much someone liked you, they could either accept your baggage or tell you it was too much.

[Jeanine Boyd]

I'm sorry, Dan.

[Jerry Springer]

You have too much baggage. I'm sorry, Dan, but it's time to pack up and go.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

More than a decade after Baggage, the question was, did the rise of Donald Trump make Springer's Baggage a little less heavy?

[Bill DeMora]

I asked if I could be on that show, and it never happened because I think I was in my 40s. And you're in your 40s and haven't been married yet. You got baggage.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Bill Damora is an Ohio state senator now, but he's best known as a fixer in Ohio Democratic politics. Actually, he told me he's known as the fixer.

[Bill DeMora]

If you do your job right, no one even knows you've done it.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Demora had known and liked Springer for years. He had long been a reliable donor to Democratic causes. In Ohio. Then in 2016, as the party prepared to nominate Hillary Clinton at the upcoming DNC, Springer reached out to DeMora and asked for his help.

[Bill DeMora]

He wanted to go to the convention and he wanted get his name out there. And Jerry would say, hey, Bill, is there any way you can get me some speaking roles at some of these state delegations? I said, absolutely, Jerry.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

With the Republicans getting ready to nominate Trump to run against Clinton, Springer wanted to get out there and join the fight and hopefully make a splash. I'm here live at the DNC with none other than Jerry Springer. It's a pleasure to speak with you.

[Jerry Springer]

Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

As you've heard, Springer had attended every DNC since 1968. But in 2016, he was especially active. He went to delegation breakfasts and gave speeches that demora arranged for him. He gave interviews about Trump to anyone who would listen.

[Jerry Springer]

So this election isn't about Democrat versus Republican or liberal versus conservative. This is about Donald Trump. I'm a lifelong Democrat. I work hard for the party. I raise money and give speeches.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

The Ohio delegation was a motivated bunch that year. Obama had carried the state in both of the previous elections. And with Trump running on the Republican ticket, it was looking like 2016 could solidify Ohio's run as a blue state. Plus, there was a governor's race around the corner with the Republican incumbent, John Kasich, leaving office in 2018 due to term limits, which meant that Democrats would soon have to pick someone to run for the open seat. So Springer and his fellow Ohio Dems had a lot to talk about at the 2016 convention. At one point, Springer had the opportunity to connect with and impress an up and coming state legislator named Jeanine Boyd.

[Jeanine Boyd]

I mean, his show looks nothing like the conversations I watched him have. He wasn't attention seeking, loud or obnoxious or anything. He was very, very, very chill.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

A member of the Ohio Legislative Black Caucus, Boyd was a child of Ohio Democratic politics. Her mother, Barbara, had served eight terms in the same seat Boyd was later elected to. Even as a kid, Boyd had spent a lot of time around politicians, and her mother had trained her to sniff out the opportunists and egomaniacs among them. Boyd could tell Springer wasn't like that.

[Jeanine Boyd]

He seemed like he was listening very carefully. He just seemed like he was paying attention.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Boyd wasn't the only Ohio Democrat who felt that way about Springer. After the dnc, they all loved him.

[Bill DeMora]

And I think it kind of fanned his flame of wanting to do more in politics because he realized a Lot of people liked what he said, and I think that kind of ignited his bug for 2018 was the 2016 convention.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Damora had a vision for Springer. He thought he should run for governor of Ohio in 2018 and succeed John Kasich. Trump had just turned Ohio from a battleground state to a solid red state, meaning he had connected with people who had previously voted for Democrats. For the upcoming governor's race. D' Mora thought the Democratic Party needed an unconventional candidate who could get those voters back.

[Bill DeMora]

Our state had switched. I mean, Trump had just beaten Hillary by eight points. I don't think we had anything. We had nobody on the court. We had no elected official. And so we needed somebody to try to energize the party. And at that point in time, I thought, you know, Jerry Springer is that person.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

D' Mora started putting out feelers, and before long, Jeanine Boyd and her mother both started getting calls from their friends in Ohio politics about a possible Springer comeback.

[Jeanine Boyd]

When word started to travel that he was considering a run post Trump, the calls that I got and my mom even received were, oh, Lord, please, you know, say it isn't so.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Springer initially pushed back on the rumors, including on the podcast he'd started recently, perhaps to fill the Air America shaped hole in his heart. On the podcast, which was recorded in front of a small live audience, Springer demurred when his co host and longtime friend Gene Galvin asked about his plans.

[Gene Galvin]

Let's talk about the elephant in the middle of the room. You are being talked about as a candidate for governor. What are your thoughts?

[Jerry Springer]

Well, if I could do it Wednesdays and Thursdays, because I do three shows on Monday, two on Tuesday, Tuesday night, here for the podcast, be governor Wednesday afternoon and Thursday.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Springer went on to acknowledge that there was a certain logic, or at least symmetry, to the idea of a governor Springer. In past election cycles, his candidacy wasn't taken seriously. But now with Trump getting elected, then

[Jerry Springer]

all of a sudden there are political people around this state that are saying, hey, wait a second, I could be the Trump without the racism, without the bigotry, et cetera. I mean, that's honestly what they're thinking. You know, I could be the crazy guy on the other side, except hopefully I can put a sentence together.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

The truth was that Springer was thinking about running for governor, and by the summer of 2017, he was thinking about it pretty seriously. It was at that point that Bill DeMora brokered a meeting between Springer and Jeanine Boyd, the state rep he had talked to at the dnc. There was a Satisfying echo to this meeting. Back when Springer ran for governor in 1982, he had sought out the advice of Boyd's mother, Barbara, and according to Boyd, had received her stamp of approval.

[Jeanine Boyd]

I told my mom, I was like, mom, they want me to meet with him. And she was like, good, you know, and she was very happy about it.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Boyd invited Springer to one of her fundraisers and suggested he come over to her house beforehand so they could talk in private. Boyd also invited two of her colleagues from the Ohio State House, State Senator Sandra Williams and State Rep. Stephanie Howse. All three women were black, and Boyd wanted Springer to hear from all of them together to learn about the communities they represented. Sitting in Boyd's living room, they discussed Springer's possible candidacy.

[Jeanine Boyd]

He wanted to know how he could be helpful if he decided to run. He wanted to know if we would support him if he decided to get in it. And he wanted to know what we thought, what were our priorities, and how his candidacy and potentially his administration would be helpful to our issues.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Once again, Boyd liked what she saw. Springer was candid. He was curious. And despite being a big star who spent most of his free time in Florida, he seemed perfectly at home in Ohio. Perhaps most importantly, Springer struck Boyd as the perfect person to represent Ohio's interests while Donald Trump was in the White House.

[Jeanine Boyd]

He created a space for people like Trump. He knows how to speak to people who are attention seeking, who are disruptive and not always honest, and who don't present as thoughtful about what they say and say it anyway.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

That was one reason Boyd thought Springer was the right man for the job. He had more than 20 years of experience talking to and managing the egos of people just like Trump. Boyd's other calculation was that Springer was a celebrity, which meant that Trump might actually respect him. Springer had hosted Trump's Miss Universe pageant, and they probably knew some of the same people. Boyd thought there was at least a chance that, as a result, Trump would take Springer's calls.

[Jeanine Boyd]

We were concerned that Trump would leave states like Ohio behind in his policies and his priorities. And we wanted somebody that could get him on the phone and make us, you know, keep us a priority. You know, Trump, even then, he's always presented himself as someone who wants to

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

be around, you know, the famous people, basically, Right?

[Jeanine Boyd]

Yes, famous people. Exactly, exactly. So to us, that was a good fit.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

No doubt. This was not how Springer would have chosen to justify his candidacy, but he was cognizant of the fact that Trump's rise gave him a unique opening. As he told The Cincinnati Inquirer. His constituency is basically mine. These are fans of the show. Then he repeated the claim he had made months. I could be Trump without the racism. This was a go to line for Springer in 2017, and it was only kind of a joke. In fact, it captured what Bill DeMora saw in Springer's potential candidacy.

[Bill DeMora]

Jerry Springer would have won those over the Trump voters that switched the beef. Democrats are entire life to vote for Trump. Jerry would have gotten those back. The blue collar labor guys who voted for Trump, they related to something like Jerry Springer because again, he talked to them, not down to them. He talked at their level.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

If the case for Jerry Springer was that blue collar Trump voters liked his show and liked him, the case against him was at his show by popularizing, bad taste and anger and violence had arguably laid the groundwork for Trump. It was an argument Springer had to contend with repeatedly in interviews about his potential candidacy.

[Jeanine Boyd]

Jerry, you are talking about all this bad behavior at these rallies when your show is famous for this.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

The idea that Springer was responsible for Trump is obviously hard to prove, but there was something damning about it. How could the Democratic Party put Springer forward as an alternative to Trump when they were at the very least part of the same lineage? And yet even Ted Strickland, who held Springer's show in such contempt and who by this point had served as Ohio governor himself, encouraged Springer to go for it.

[Ted Strickland]

If they would embrace a man like Donald Trump, why in the hell would they hold judgment over Jerry Springer? Trump lowered the bar. He really did. I mean, he took us down to the basement.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Looking out at the race ahead, Strickland really thought Springer could win. Compared to the small time local politicians who had thrown their hats in the ring, Springer looked unmistakably like the strongest candidate. As for the TV show, Strickland found his way to accepting it, or at least compartmentalizing it.

[Ted Strickland]

I guess I sort of adopted the attitude of who am I to judge? And I felt like I understood Jerry and I knew what his values were. And somehow he had come to, you know, be at peace with the content of his show. Somehow, in my own mind, I was able to separate Jerry Springer, the guy that I knew and admired, from the Jerry that was on the Jerry Springer Show.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

By the end of the summer, Springer had fully committed to exploring a run. He even went so far as to recruit a running mate.

[David Leland]

When I got the call that he wanted to talk to me about the 2018 election, I was like, wow. I didn't even think he was still interested in that.

[Jerry Springer]

Stuff.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

This is David Leland. These days, he's an appellate judge in Ohio. Before that, he was a state rep and the head of the Ohio Democratic Party. Leland had known Springer for decades and had talked to him back in the late 90s about running for Senate. Back then, Leland had told Springer the same thing everyone else told him, that he had to quit his show if he wanted to run a viable campaign. But Springer was unwilling to cut the cord, and by 2017, Leland had kind of written him off as a contender.

[David Leland]

I mean, he was around, he was helping people, he was doing things, he was campaigning. All that was true, but I didn't realize that he had still harbored ambitions to maybe run for office in Ohio.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Still, Leland was intrigued at the idea of serving under a Governor Springer. And over a series of lunch meetings, he prodded at Springer's motivations and what he would expect of him as Lieutenant governor. Leland concluded that Springer wanted him to be his Dick Cheney, a behind the scenes guy to run the government. While Springer gave interviews and speeches.

[David Leland]

He wanted to talk about big issues. He wanted to talk about, you know, helping people, you know, grow and reach their potential and, you know, whether that's education or the economy or the environment or whatever, he wanted to talk about the big issues. He didn't necessarily want to do the day to day stuff of being governor, like, you know, cabinet meetings and all that kind of stuff.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Leland's view was that Springer saw the governorship as his last chance to do something that might rival the impact of his TV show. Something the obituary writers would have to include in the first paragraph when they wrote about him.

[David Leland]

I mean, he was very. He had a lot of bravado and like, yeah, this show sucks. And you know, he was, you know, laughing about it and whatever. But Jerry was a sensitive guy. And I think that there was a piece of him that said, you know, gosh, I want to be known for more than this. I want to do something a little bit more positive than this.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

So what happened? Demora told me things changed when a few high profile Democrats started signaling that they too would be jumping into the governor's race. Among them was an Obama appointee named Richard Cordray, who had previously served as Ohio's Attorney General. Internal polling commissioned by the Springer camp indicated that if Cordray ran in the primary, Springer would be in trouble.

[Bill DeMora]

You know, primary voters are their stalwarts. They're the die hards. They're the party faithful. They're the ones that vote in every election. They couldn't see the differences between Jerry Springer the candidate and Jerry Springer the talk show host.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

The possibility that Richard Cordray would run for governor had been hanging over Springer's proto candidacy from the beginning. But as summer turned to fall in 2017, rumors that Cordray was getting in started getting louder and louder. And then it became official, it didn't matter that polling showed Springer beating his Republican opponent in a general election. The fact that he would first have to beat Cordray, a blue chip Democrat from the Obama administration, made it a moot point. About a week before Cordray formally declared his candidacy, Springer and his friend Gene Galvin recorded a special episode of their podcast in which Springer announced his decision regarding the 2018 race.

[Gene Galvin]

Jerry, I wanted to ask you something. I know that in the last number of months you have been asked by a number of people, like I say, some past office holders, some current office holders, some party officials, some county people from the Democratic Party, labor people, grassroots. But some people have come to you and said, please consider running for governor in the state of Ohio. And I know that you have sort of systematically processed this and I want to ask you, are you ready to talk about it? And if so, so please do.

[Jerry Springer]

No, I've been active in Ohio politics for 48 years and in fact, on Thursday, it'll be 40 years to the day that I was sworn in as mayor of Cincinnati. So I just tell you that. So that this is really.

[Gene Galvin]

I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you this

[Jerry Springer]

is hard for Jerry because, yeah, I'm fine. I'll be fine. It's, it's a real passion for me.

[Gene Galvin]

Yeah.

[Jerry Springer]

Political issues, my love of Ohio, how, what it's meant in my life. So I thought about it a lot and we did research and we did polling, focus groups, all that kind of stuff. And it became harder and harder because, to be blunt, it really looked like I could win. So it wasn't just, oh, this will be exciting to run. It's like all of a sudden, for really the first time in my life, it was like the perfect storm. But I'm not 30 years old, I'm not 50 years old. And so I have to say that the day I would be taking office, I'd be a month short of my 75th birthday. Am I prepared to make a five year commitment at this age? Because who I could be governor. And so I can't responsibly say. That I can do it. So I can.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

When I asked Ted Strickland about Jerry Springer's political ambitions, he told me a version of something I've Heard a lot from those who knew Springer personally, that at the end of the day, there were two different Jerrys in there, and there just wasn't enough room for both of them.

[Ted Strickland]

It was always sort of a unrequited love for politics that he felt, and that was always there. But on the other hand, his choice to have his show was an obstacle that he could not overcome. So they were competing aspects of his life that seemed to have no resolution.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

David Leland, Springer's would be running mate in the Ohio governor's race, was a bit less forgiving. When I said I found it sad that Springer never found his way back to public service and that he never got to do the thing that would have changed the first paragraph of his obituary.

[David Leland]

Well, you know, we all want our obituary to say the right thing. Okay. You know, we make choices in our lives, and we make our choices, and we live with our choices. And he certainly did that. You know, I don't know. I don't know. But, you know, we all. Nobody forces these choices on us. I mean, it isn't like somebody put a gun to his head and said, hey, you have to do this TV show.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

The Jerry Springer show taped its final episode in June of 2018, a little over six months after Springer announced his decision not to run for governor. At that point, the show had been on the air for 27 years and had churned out nearly 4,000 episodes.

[Gene Galvin]

Okay.

[Jerry Springer]

Michaela says a fight with a boyfriend sent her into the arms of another man. Whoa. Mikayla, what's going on?

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

It wasn't supposed to be the final episode, and there was no fanfare on set or from the network around the show's sunset. One day, an item just appeared in the Hollywood trades. The Jerry Springer show ending production. There would be no more tapings. Reruns would start airing on the CW in the fall. Five years later, on April 27, 2023, Jerry Springer died of pancreatic cancer at the age of 79.

[Jeanine Boyd]

Springer's tabloid talk show was famous for

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

outrageous arguments and physical fights between guests.

[Jeanine Boyd]

Springer was known as the grandfather of trash tv.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Family members say he died at his home in suburban Chicago after a brief illness. At the end of his autobiography, ringmaster, published at the height of his fame in 1998, Jerry Springer included transcripts of his 15 favorite final thoughts. At the top of the list was one about work and identity. Springer delivered a version of it in an episode called Bizarre Sex Jobs.

[Jerry Springer]

Thank you. Let me take this opportunity to thank you all for being with us, and good luck in the choices that you make, I hope you continue to be happy.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

The guests had been a stripper, a sexy masseuse, and a dominatrix, all of whom loved their jobs but had loved ones who wanted them to quit. As he often did in his final thoughts, Springer made a distinction between how things should be or could be in a different world and how they actually are.

[Jerry Springer]

You know, in our culture, it's the second question we ask someone upon meeting them. What's your name? And then what do you do? Fairly or unfairly, we are judged by our occupation or even lack of one. One drives a cab, another's a teacher, one's a doctor, another housewife. Each response to what do you do? Creates an instant image of who that person is.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Springer seems like he's implying here that this is, on some basic level, not fair, that this tendency people have of defining others based on their work, it's wrong. You may Remember, back in 1996, Springer gave an interview to John Keeswetter, the TV columnist for the Cincinnati Enquirer, in which he defended himself against the charge of selling out. In that interview, Springer compared himself to a very religious truck driver, a guy who was true to his faith even as he spent most of his waking hours doing something that had nothing to do with it. In his final thought, at the end of Bizarre Sex Jobs, Springer hit a similar note while acknowledging the reality that with some jobs in particular, you're not going to be able to stop people from judging you.

[Jerry Springer]

In our society, even if we are not what we do, that's how folks actually classify us. So it must be understood that if you choose to make a living giving erotic sponge baths or whipping people with riding crops, even if the money's good, you are likely to be typecast in a less than respectful way. And that inevitably has consequences on your future possibilities as well as current relationships.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Are we not what we do? Who are we? It seems clear that Springer at least wanted to believe that our jobs don't define us, that it's possible to be one person on the inside and look like someone totally different to those who can't look past how we earn our living. But I gotta say, I don't buy the religious truck driver analogy, because Jerry Springer wasn't just some religious guy. By all accounts, he was the equivalent of a great British preacher. As a politician, he possessed the rare ability to reach people, inspire them, persuade them, and bring out the best in them. Instead, he drove a truck. And not just any truck. A truck filled with the equivalent of drugs, guns and toxic sludge. And I think he was smart enough and decent enough and sensitive enough to

[Jerry Springer]

know that when you shed your clothing for a living, you can also wind up shedding your family and friends. You'd have to make a heck of a lot of money to ever make that worth it. Till next time, take care of yourself and each other.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

It's been suggested to me by many of the people I've interviewed that when it comes to understanding how and why Springer made the choices he made, I'm probably overthinking it. I got the best version of this read from John Snow, Springer's old friend from Cincinnati, who drove him around town during his first city council campaign. Snow always thought the Jerry Springer show was as far away from the real Jerry as anything he could imagine.

[John Snow]

It's just a stupid show.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Well, why did he keep doing it?

[John Snow]

Money talks and bullshit walks. That's why he did it. Money is money. That's it. I mean, Leon, come on. If they said Leon. All right, you gotta stop doing these podcasts. And we're gonna give you, like, $2 million a month to referee midgets in mud wrestling. You'll stop the podcast. Yes, I know you are.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Maybe it is that simple. Or maybe the story of Jerry Springer, in which a talented guy with big ambitions decides to take a temporary job,

[Production Credits / Announcer]

gets a couple promotions, and then just

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

keeps doing it forever. Maybe that's a story about something else. Not selling out, but settling in, getting used to things being the way they are, letting too much time pass, not realizing you've missed the last exit until it's in the rear view mirror.

[Production Credits / Announcer]

Final thoughts jerry springer is presented by audible originals and prologue projects. The show was hosted by me, leon nayfak. Our senior producer was sam lee. Our editor was diane hodson. Our producers were kathryn sullivan and arlene revelo, with additional production by dustin de soto and madeline kaplan. Sound design by andrew parsons. Our archival researcher was laura coxson, with additional archival production by frances carr. Our fact checker was maggie duffy, with additional fact checking by madeline kaplan. Our theme song was composed by billy libby. Audio mix by erica wong. Andrew parsons was the executive producer at prologue projects. Heather juan tesorero is the executive producer at audible originals. Special thanks to michelle cottle, josh cowan, jim dadey, jay gilbert, steve horowitz, craig koop, david little, john london, rick willis, david mann, carol marine, steve physiok, alicia reese, jim tarbell, deb wittkus, kelly white, james poniewczyk, dave beatrice, cheryl racinos, arielle pardess, stephen fisher lexia bedat at clarislaw,

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

lisa de leon and jennifer valdez at

[Production Credits / Announcer]

bell co. Everyone at audible and wxvu,

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

cincinnati

[Production Credits / Announcer]

archival material courtesy of university of cincinnati architecture archives and rare books library, cincinnati museum center archives, wttw archives, retro video, inc. Npr, NBC, getty images, fox archives and conus archive. Copyright 2025 by prologue projects sound recording. Copyright 2025 by audible originals,

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Sa.