Final Thoughts: Jerry Springer | Run Jerry Run | 8

Summary

OnlyFantasy Podcast

Episode: Final Thoughts: Jerry Springer | Run Jerry Run | 8

Host: Leon Neyfakh
Release Date: April 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode, “Run Jerry Run,” explores Jerry Springer’s near-return to politics in the early 2000s after becoming a household name for his eponymous talk show. Through interviews with campaign strategists, political allies, and Springer himself, host Leon Neyfakh traces how Springer’s unique hybrid identity—serious politician turned infamous TV ringmaster—influenced his quixotic Senate ambitions and complicated his relationship with both working-class fans and political elites. The episode probes whether Springer could have leveraged his celebrity and populist instincts to “change America,” or whether his TV persona had become baggage too heavy to shake.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Dual Identity of Jerry Springer

• Springer’s early political ambitions contrasted sharply with his later TV reputation.
  • “Across the street is who I am. And yet on his show, Springer acted like the idea of him running for office was just a big joke.” (04:55)
• Even as “Jerry the talk show person” became a “cartoonish character,” those close to him saw the original idealist still hoping to make a difference.
  • Keith Sweater: “He said, my job is to be an entertainer. It doesn't mean what I am as a person.... Jerry could wall that off and separate it and almost see himself as two different people.” (04:13)

2. The Temptation—and Challenge—of a Comeback

• Springer never entirely gave up on a career in public service.
  • Joe Trippie: “It was always there and it would just every once in a while... should I just keep doing the show? Or maybe, maybe this time, maybe this is the right time...” (07:49)
• In 2003, with Democrats weak in Ohio, Springer saw an opportunity to run for Senate.
  • “[Springer] started taking real steps toward launching a campaign.” (08:53)

3. The Mechanics and Dilemmas of a Springer Campaign

• Internal polling—costly and risky—was a serious step indicating Springer’s intent.
  • “Taking a poll was a sign of seriousness. For one thing, it was expensive, like hundreds of thousands of dollars expensive.” (09:27)
• Springer’s pollster, Paul Maslin, recalled scar tissue from earlier failed campaigns and new baggage from the talk show:
  • “Instead of an old news story about a brothel and a personal check, Springer now had a TV show that people blamed for the downfall of American culture.” (11:17)

4. Populism, Messaging & the Infomercial Makeover

• Springer’s campaign leaned into his immigrant story and populist instincts to try to win over skeptics.
  • The infomercial aimed not to erase the “show Jerry,” but introduce the “other Jerry.”
    • “[The video] opens with footage of Adolf Hitler... Before moving through clips... recounts the Springer family's escape from Germany...” (19:30–20:01)
• Springer on class warfare:
  • “There is a sense of elitism in our country that wasn't always there. There really is a snobbery coming out of Washington... The powers that be look down on middle America.” (21:07)
• Addressing his own reputation head on:
  • “It wasn't my show that closed down our schools. It wasn't my show that closed down the plants. It wasn't my show that resulted in a $4 billion deficit for the state of Ohio.” (22:01)

5. Show Staff Anxiety, Repetition, and Rut

• The show’s staff worried that Springer’s campaign would end their jobs.
  • Brian Schnoor: “Yeah, we hated it. I think if any of us were registered in Ohio, we'd probably start a petition against it. Because we loved our job, we wanted a show to go on.” (24:09)
• Repetitiveness crept into the show, and even “Final Thoughts” became recycled:
  • “I would take a final thought from one show and a final thought from another... and I'd say, Jerry just needs, like, a transition make these two final thoughts work.” (26:41)

6. The Inescapable Problem: Could He Ever Escape the Show?

• Springer was contractually bound to continue the show, making full commitment to a campaign nearly impossible.
  • Paul Maslin: “We're not asking you to disown it, but we are asking you to stop it and say, that was then and this is now... If I did walk away... people can turn on the TV and still see it.” (28:14)

7. The Hicksville Photo & the Heart of the Identity Crisis

• A campaign photo in “Hicksville” is used ironically online—backfires and prompts accusations that Springer is mocking the very people he claims to champion.
  • “The joke, as far as I can tell, was that Springer was right where he belonged. A whole town of Hicks who loved his show...” (31:04)
• This incident echoes the core campaign dilemma: was Springer giving “the voiceless” a platform, or making them the butt of the joke?
• Chasm between working-class enthusiasm and party elite contempt:
  • Chris Redfern: “It's the chattering class of the Democratic Party's elite. Those people who are wealthier... aren't part of the joke... They're not part of the joke because they don't know how to tell the joke because they're all worried and judgy and looking inward rather than traveling to Hicksville...” (33:24)

8. Dem Elite Dismay and Springer’s Ultimate Decision

• Party leaders fear Springer could tarnish the ticket and refuse to support him.
  • “On a good day, they've said, he's not our first choice. On a bad day, they've said, he's radioactive. He would be a disaster for the party.” (34:48)
• Springer waffles, delays, and ultimately announces he won’t run.
  • Chris Redfern: “[Springer] was willing to eat the couch, but maybe only if it was a part of the sectional, not the whole thing.” (36:28)
  • Press conference: “I now realize... for me to be a successful candidate, there must be separation from the show... his contract wouldn’t allow that in time for the 2004 election.” (36:35)

9. The “What If” and the Legacy

• His campaign team believes Jerry—if he’d run and won—could have changed the trajectory of populist Democratic politics, potentially heading off a Trump-style moment.
  • Joe Trippie: “The regret here, if I've got one, is that my own party didn't recognize that we needed working class whites and blacks joining together... Instead, Donald Trump did the opposite.” (41:03)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Springer on his dual identity:
  “There’s the Jerry the talk show person, this almost cartoonish character that was separate from him.” — Keith Sweater (04:13)

• About running for office:
  “How can I serve?” — Joe Trippie on Springer’s mindset (07:13)

• On political elites:
  “There's a sense of elitism in our country… the powers that be look down on middle America.” — Jerry Springer (21:07)

• On the barrier of the show:
  “It wasn't my show that closed down our schools… If you believe I'm gonna fight for you, then you'll support me.” — Jerry Springer (22:01)

• On the Democratic Party’s hesitation:
  “On a bad day, they've said, he's radioactive. He would be a disaster for the party.” — Political Commentator (34:48)

• On what could have been:
  “The regret here, if I've got one, is that my own party didn't recognize that we needed working class whites and blacks joining together…” — Joe Trippie (41:03)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:13: Context for 1996 ‘Unusual Candidates’ episode and Springer's self-mockery about running for Vice President.
• 03:25: Cincinnati columnist on local perception—sale out or misunderstood?
• 07:02: Joe Trippie describes Jerry’s lingering aspiration to re-enter politics.
• 11:07: Political baggage then (scandal) vs. now (the show).
• 15:39: Springer's campaign stump messaging at local Democratic events.
• 17:12: Shocking poll numbers—Springer’s record-high unfavorability.
• 19:11: Infomercial launch, recasting “the other Jerry.”
• 22:01: Springer faces tough questions about the show’s baggage.
• 24:09: Show staffers voice anxiety about their jobs during the campaign.
• 27:04: Recycled “Final Thoughts” and Springer's creative exhaustion.
• 28:14–29:31: Entanglement with the show—fundamental campaign obstacle.
• 31:04: The Hicksville campaign stop and backlash.
• 33:24: Redfern’s critique of elite Dems’ disconnect.
• 36:28: Decision time—Springer bows out, citing contractual obligations.
• 41:03: Trippie’s reflection on missed opportunities for Democratic populism.

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Episode Takeaways

• Springer's career remains a case study in American media and politics: Could a figure tainted by “trash TV” shed that legacy and return as a serious public servant, or were the two identities impossible to reconcile in modern America?
• His near-run foreshadowed the populist wave to come: The same instincts that powered his show—frustration with elites, championing the underdog, media-savvy messaging—would, in different hands, upend both politics and culture.
• A bittersweet ‘what if’ haunts Springer’s legacy: His would-be campaign became a parable of ambition, reputation, class divide, and the limits of our capacity for reinvention.

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Next episode: The series pivots to the question: If not Jerry—who? And what does the populism of “Springer-style politics” mean for the future?

Transcript

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Yeah.

[Jerry Springer]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I gratefully accept your nomination. Hey, welcome to the show. Well, the big election is almost here.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

This is a 1996 episode of the Jerry Springer show, filmed while Bill Clinton was running for his second term. The episode was called Unusual Candidates and it wasn't what you normally think of when you picture Springer.

[Jerry Springer]

You see, today we're gonna talk to the glamour queen whose run for mayor of Palm Springs made her a star. And we'll visit a punk rock presidential hopeful who was once married to Courtney Love.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Instead of jealous boyfriends and angry strippers, the guests were eccentrics running for public office. You guys already elected a really bad actor as president. I'm a really good punk rocker. At one point during the episode, Springer introduced his studio audience to another unusual candidate himself and shared with them a pre taped segment documenting his visit to the Democratic National Convention. The DNC had recently been held in Chicago, just a few miles from where Springer taped his show.

[Jerry Springer]

However, the other day I went over to the Democratic National Convention to find out more about what's going on in the big elections this year. Take a look at this.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

The premise of the segment was that Springer was at the DNC testing the waters for a possible run for Vice president. Not a position you can actually run for, which is probably why he chose it for this gag.

[Jerry Springer]

One of the reasons that I'm here is as much as I enjoy doing the talk show, I'm thinking of the year 2000 running for vice president. Oh, you are? Because I think America needs a talk show host. What would you think about that?

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

What? Later, Springer stood in front of a life size poster of the Chicago Bulls and did an impression of Bobby Kennedy, whose voice you may remember he had once imitated in earnest while testifying before con.

[Jerry Springer]

I'm asking today for your support for the office of Vice President of the United States in the year 2000. If I am elected, these Chicago Bulls will serve in my cabinet. Dennis Rodman will be secretary. Well, he'll just be my secretary.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Walking around the convention hall, Springer spotted the White House Chief of staff, Leon Panetta in a stairwell.

[Jerry Springer]

Hi, Mr. Panetta. I'm Jerry Springer.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Hi, Jerry, how are you?

[Paul Maslin]

Good to see you.

[Jerry Springer]

Do you mind being on our show for 10 seconds?

[Richard Dominic]

Of course.

[Jerry Springer]

Probably the only reason you'd ever get on our show.

[Joe Trippie]

Where the hell am I gonna go here?

[Political Commentator]

I'm trapped.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

We gotcha the se. With Springer desperately trying to track down Larry King, a serious talk show host who talked about serious issues, you could see Springer craning his neck to get a glimpse of him and waving as King disappeared around a corner, not noticing. Then the picture faded and flashed back to the set of Springer's show, where the crowd was going wild. Thank you very much.

[Jerry Springer]

It was a little bit humiliating, but I gotta tell you, I did finally get to speak with Larry King. He talked to me. He talked to me. He said. He said, could you get my car? But I'm sure he wanted to talk more. Hey, we're telling.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Nearly 15 years had passed since Springer's defeat in the 1982 Ohio governor's race. What was supposed to be a temporary detour in the television news had turned into a career no one in Cincinnati would have imagined for Springer. That included John Keeswetter, a longtime TV columnist for the Cincinnati Enquirer.

[Keith Sweater]

People who knew him well in Cincinnati thought that he had sold out.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Keith Sweater was in Chicago covering the 96 Convention. While there, he decided to spend a day checking in with the former mayor of his city. In interviewing Springer, Keith Sweater asked if he had any regrets about ditching his political career for fame.

[Keith Sweater]

So the headline on my story was, quote, I haven't sold out. Springer says he said, I haven't sold out. It's just that this is my job. I'm as liberal as I've ever been. I sleep very well at night. I manage to make a very good living without changing my philosophical stripes.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Springer compared his situation to that of a very religious truck driver. During the day, the guy drives a truck, he told Key Sweater. Does that mean he's sold out? No, one doesn't have anything to do with the other.

[Keith Sweater]

He said, my job is to be an entertainer. It doesn't mean what I am as a person. There's the Jerry the talk show person, this almost cartoonish character that was separate from him. Jerry could wall that off and separate it and almost see himself as two different people.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

There's one part in Keith Sweater's article for the Inquirer where he describes a poignant moment in Springer's office. I asked him to read it out loud.

[Keith Sweater]

Across the street from his studios, the Sheraton Hotel and Towers is dressed in red, white and blue to host President Clinton for the convention. Springer points out the window and says, this is a fun job, but across the street is who I am.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Across the street is who I am. And yet on his show, Springer acted like the idea of him running for office was just a big joke. And for years after, as Springer became the most infamous talk show host in America, this other Jerry. Jerry, the Politician was reduced to a piece of trivia. Did you know Jerry Springer used to be the mayor of Cincinnati? Back in Springer's city council days, when he was the unusual candidate running as a progressive in a conservative city, Springer's campaign manager had mapped out a plan for his political future. Springer was supposed to have been elected one of the youngest senators in America by 1980. Of course, that never happened. But the dream never died. Then, in 2003, Springer saw an opening. The Ohio Democratic Party had a chance at flipping a Senate seat in the upcoming election. Springer had the name recognition and the funds to make a credible bid. And why shouldn't he? The question was, could voters be convinced to take Springer seriously? He had won over millions of fans for hosting what TV Guide proclaimed the world's worst television show. Could he now make them forget about it? I'm leon nayfak from audible originals and prologue projects, this is final thoughts. Jerry springer, Chapter eight. Run, Jerry, run.

[Joe Trippie]

He was always thinking about getting back into politics.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Springer shared his desire to re enter politics with a small circle of associates. Joe Trippie was among them.

[Joe Trippie]

Jerry always asks, how could I make a difference in people's lives? How can I serve?

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

A veteran political strategist, Trippie has managed national and statewide campaigns across the country. He was also a close collaborator with Springer's friend and longtime political confidant, Mike Ford. Ford, who died in 2013, was Springer's very first campaign manager when he ran for city council back in Cincinnati. It was Ford who wrote that memo predicting that Springer would be elected senator by 1980. Trippy says Springer never quite shook the what if?

[Joe Trippie]

It was always there and it would just every once in a while and a lot. Many times I'd get a call from Mike saying that he was thinking about it. And so there was always this, you know, should I just keep doing the show? Or maybe, maybe this time, maybe this is the right time and so I should risk it and do it.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Ford once told a reporter from this American Life that Springer called him roughly every month for years, asking if he thought it was the right time to run for office.

[Joe Trippie]

Jerry would, you know, see some opening, you know, oh, the governor's race in, you know, whatever year is coming up, maybe we should look at it.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

To Trippie, it seemed like the more success Springer had with his show, the more he yearned to return to public

[Joe Trippie]

service, the better the show was doing or the, you know, the better he was doing, the more he felt he should try to make a difference and give back. Somehow I don't Know, if you want to call it guilt of I'm doing well, but the people I could make a difference for are still not. And I can try to do something about that.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Springer briefly explored a Senate run in 1999, right after the show's ratings peaked. But he quickly decided not to enter the race, citing his contract. Four years later, Springer was once again eyeing the Senate, where a one term Ohio Republican, George Voinovich looked like he might be vulnerable. Springer started taking real steps towards launching a campaign.

[Joe Trippie]

The big trigger is taking the poll. There were several times when we talked about it and then we'd say, well, maybe we should do a poll. But we never got there.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Taking a poll was a sign of seriousness. For one thing, it was expensive, like hundreds of thousands of dollars expensive. Second, doing a poll wasn't for the faint of heart. Internal polling consists of essentially doing oppo research on yourself and letting your team write up some of the hardest questions they can think of to see what will turn off voters. Some wannabe candidates can't handle the idea that those questions would go out to the public.

[Joe Trippie]

You find out all the horrible things that people are gonna find out and you test those in the poll. There are several potential candidates that we've probably never heard of who at that moment looked at it and went like, eh, no, I don't think so.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

But Springer had already experienced having his dirty laundry aired publicly. Plus he had the money. Looking ahead to the 2004 election year, Springer told Trippie, do the poll.

[Joe Trippie]

It started to become, I gots to know, I put it off, I've put it off, I've put it off. And if I'm gonna do it, this is the time in my career, age wise and everything else. And I want to take a look.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Trippie called his friend Paul Maslin, a Democratic pollster.

[Paul Maslin]

Our job is to figure out what the voters think.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Trippie told Maslin he needed him to do a poll for his friend Jerry Springer.

[Paul Maslin]

Obviously Jerry Springer was very, very famous because of his show. And of course I knew who Jerry Springer was before the show.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Maslin remembered Springer from 1982. One of his first jobs out of college was doing polling for William Brown when he ran against Springer for Ohio governor. It was actually Maslin who wrote that fateful and inaccurate poll question about Springer's sex scandal.

[Paul Maslin]

Clearly we had a couple of facts wrong because that's why the story blew up in a way that's relatively humorous now looking back on it. You know, learned a good hard lesson from it.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Springer's team this Crew of advisors from his past political life got to work addressing the baggage that might sink him. Now, 20 years later, their concerns weren't the same as they had been back then. Instead of an old news story about a brothel and a personal check, Springer now had a TV show that people blamed for the downfall of American culture. With five episodes a week reminding them

[Paul Maslin]

why everybody hated the show. It was always, okay, everybody in Cincinnati knows them and they can come to terms with all this. But what about the rest of the state? And can we somehow get over this big, you know, gorilla in the room? Is this the time that a Jerry Springer might actually be able to break through?

[News Reporter]

Jerry Springer, talk show host and one time mayor of Cincinnati, one time candidate for governor of Ohio, now says he's seriously considering a bid to take on Senator George Voinovich in 2004. He says he's going to decide by the summer. He acknowledges that his commitments to his show could be a factor in whether he runs or not. Who knows? This could be more serious than we think.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

In January of 2003, Springer made an announcement, officially telling the public that he was exploring a run for Senate, but giving himself about six months to decide whether he would actually go through with it. After hemming and hawing privately about whether to run, Springer would now be hemming and hawing publicly, all while trying to convince people to vote for him. Springer went on CNN to talk about his exploratory campaign, and his team made a website, runjerryrun.com detailing his public appearances. They also sought out political allies on the ground. In Ohio.

[Chris Redfern]

It's the early 2000s, right? Democrats are getting their asses kicked. We lost the 2000 race. We lost 2002.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

In 2003, Chris Redfern was the House minority leader for the Ohio legislature. He was the highest ranking Democrat in the state, which was pretty grim. It meant the state had no Democrats holding statewide office at any higher level. Redfern wanted to try and turn the state blue.

[Chris Redfern]

And I thought I had the prescription, the tonic, if you will, that we would all be able to take and win in Ohio.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Redfern said he became a go to source in the state for would be Democratic politicians and the strategists who worked for them.

[Chris Redfern]

And that's not uncommon. To have a Joe Trippie or someone contact me and say, my guy is interested in one day running for office in Ohio. You got time to have a beer? Sure. Who's your guy? Jerry Springer. Oh, really? And it was as simple as that.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

From the starting point, Redfern knew the outlines of Springer's career, but he learned a lot more about him. During their first meeting, he says Springer told him about how he'd apologized after his 1974 scandal and how he'd earned back the trust of his constituents. Redfern thought that took a lot of courage and vulnerability. He was impressed.

[Chris Redfern]

Every time you peel a layer away from Jerry Springer, something a little more interesting is found.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Redfern liked Springer's family story of immigrating to America. He liked what he had done on city council in Cincinnati. And he loved his brand of politics.

[Chris Redfern]

He stood for everything that progressives today stand for long before it was fashionable. Far more liberal in his beliefs than, say, a Bill Clinton or a Barack

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Obama, Redfern knew as well as anyone that running for statewide office in Ohio was not easy. It was a big state, with the population spread across several major media markets. You couldn't win by just focusing on one area. You had to work your way through all of them and address the concerns of voters from inner city Cleveland to rural Appalachia. Quoting a former Ohio governor, the one who had beaten springer back in 1982, Redfern offered a folksy and rather vivid analogy.

[Chris Redfern]

Dick Celeste, former governor of the state of Ohio, used to say, you want to run statewide? And he pointed a couch in his office. You got to be willing to eat that couch every day, bite by bite.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

And so Springer started eating the couch, working his way through Ohio, usually with Redfern by his side. Together they made the rounds at fundraising dinners held by local Democrats at county fairgrounds and in VFW halls all across the state.

[Chris Redfern]

Democrats host these at the county level, and you'll have everybody from the county sheriff to the auto workers, and they attend from 50 to 2 to 3 to 400 people at these gatherings. So every night I've got to speak first, and then Jerry's introduced, and nobody gives a shit about what I'm going to say. They're all waiting for Jerry Springer.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Springer would talk about economic issues like the loss of manufacturing jobs that Ohio had been struggling with since the 70s, or the high costs of health care and education.

[Chris Redfern]

You can hear a pin drop. He would talk about he doesn't need a tax cut. And he would say things like, how many more jets do I need? This is ludicrous. We need to invest in hospitals. And at the end, everybody would stand up and cheer and scream, jerry.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Jerry.

[Chris Redfern]

Jerry.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Springer took his message anywhere that would have him. Here he is speaking at a meeting of the Ohio Young Democrats.

[Jerry Springer]

What I want to say to the United States Senators and to the administration, excuse me, sir, what program in your life is going to have to be cut? Are you, are you suddenly going to have to do without doctors? What's being cut for them? Nothing in their lives. They'll still have doctors, they'll still have education, they'll still have vacations, they'll still have the country clubs. They have everything. Plus they get a check in the mail.

[Chris Redfern]

And you see this every night. I start thinking to myself, well, fuck, there's an opportunity here.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

But how much of an opportunity was there exactly? To find out, Springer turned to his poll numbers, where he saw some good news and some not so good news. The not so good news from a poll commissioned by the University of Cincinnati placed his unfavorability rating at a whopping 71%, the highest ever logged by a potential candidate in Ohio since the poll began. It was even worse than the 65% logged by another celebrity candidate a few years earlier, Donald Trump. Here again is political strategist Joe Trippy.

[Joe Trippie]

So you're looking at this data, you believe he could, that he had the skills, I mean, absolutely the amazing communication skills to do what we're talking about doing. That's even in the face of data that said he could not.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

But according to the campaign's internal polling, there was support out there for a Springer candidacy.

[Joe Trippie]

His base, you know, was minority, black, blue collar whites, working class people, and probably a lot of those were viewers of his.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Trippie saw a path forward. It would be old school Springer, grassroots, optimistic, inspired by the idealism of the RFK campaign. All Springer had to do was change some minds, particularly those of higher educated, higher income voters.

[Joe Trippie]

Can we run an idealistic campaign calling on the best in people? And by being out there and calling people to that cause, could he win people over? I always thought he could.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

As Springer's campaign gathered momentum, he filed the official paperwork required to run publicly. He said he was still making up his mind, but the filing cleared the way for him to advertise on TV and raise money.

[Jerry Springer (Infomercial)]

The following is a paid infomercial on behalf of the U.S. senate candidacy of Jerry Springer. The Senate seat in question is from Ohio for the 2004 election.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

With that, his team got to work on a TV spot to help him turn around his poll numbers. They put together a 30 minute infomercial.

[Jerry Springer (Infomercial)]

You don't need to be an Ohioan and you don't need to be a registered voter. You do need to be fed up with politics as usual and want to send a Message to the powers that be that you want some changes made.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

The video had to introduce viewers to a very different Jerry Springer than the one most people knew. It had to make a case for the other Jerry, the old Jerry, Jerry the politician, all while acknowledging the famous Jerry that everyone had come to know and in some cases, hate. After a brief introduction, the infomercial opens with footage of Adolf Hitler in 1939 Berlin, before moving through clips of black and white World War II footage. While a narrator recounts the Springer family's escape from Germany, newlyweds Richard and Margo

[Jerry Springer (Infomercial)]

Springer knew they had to get out. In August 1939, two weeks after the Nazi invasion of Poland, the Springers left Berlin behind. They fled safely to London.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Pollster Paul Maslin remembers being floored by how effectively the infomercial captured a new, or rather old side of Springer.

[Paul Maslin]

Jerry is talking in most of that video and talking about his parents and immigrants and why they came to this country and what the country is all about.

[Jerry Springer]

My family went from extermination

[Chris Redfern]

to this

[Jerry Springer]

ridiculously privileged life that I live because of my silly show. I know that America has all kinds of possibilities. Making sure that the Statue of Liberty means as much to the kids of this generation as it meant to me and my family. Let that message ring true for today's generation of Americans. Everybody should have a chance of making

[Paul Maslin]

it and then segueing into what's wrong today. And done in a way that, I mean, the voters were blown away by it.

[Jerry Springer]

There is a sense of elitism in our country that wasn't always there. There really is a snobbery coming out of Washington. It's partly the government, it's partly the media. But the truth is, the powers that be look down on middle America.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Springer was, of course, a wealthy member of the media elite, but the perceived trashiness of his show allowed him to set himself apart from the snobs who disapproved of it. This allowed Springer to present himself as a rich guy willing to stand up for the little guy. But he also did have to address concerns about the show head on. The infomercial featured a clip of Springer trying to convince a woman named Kristen, meant to represent a skeptical voter, that the show was irrelevant to his vision for America.

[Jerry Springer (Infomercial)]

I'm really interested in your campaign. I think you have a lot of great things to say, but I just don't think I can get past the show.

[Jerry Springer]

The show, in traditional political terms, is what you would call baggage, because the show isn't politically correct. I say, you know what? I'll take the heat on the show. Let the media throw everything they want at me about the show, about me, etc. I'll take the flak. It wasn't my show that closed down our schools. It wasn't my show that closed down the plants. It wasn't my show that resulted in a $4 billion deficit for the state of Ohio. And if you believe I'm gonna fight, fight for you, then you'll support me. Then we'll make a change in this state. If you're happy with.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

It's almost like Springer was saying, look, I know my show is pretty bad, but the government is so much worse. He wasn't asking for people to change their impression of the show. He was just asking them not to think about it. He was also asking them for money. The video offered viewers a chance to donate between $15 and $2,000 to Springer's campaign in exchange for exclusive merchant.

[Jerry Springer (Infomercial)]

Yes, there is more to Jerry Springer than his show. Do you like what you've been hearing? Check out the website. It's on the bottom of the screen there. Call in. We've got T shirts, we've got CDs, we've got bumper stickers. Join us to shake things up. Let's change America.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Maslin conducted focus groups with the video, surveying voters on their attitudes towards Springer before and after watching.

[Paul Maslin]

We had tremendous response to it. There's no doubt in my mind that he would have had a hearing.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Were people changing their mind about him watching the video?

[Paul Maslin]

Absolutely there were. You know, don't quote me on the actual number here, but I remember at least 30 or 40 point difference in, you know, in his favorable after they saw the video to compare to when they'd seen it before.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

And what did that. What did that say to you?

[Paul Maslin]

Said to me that. That he could run a viable campaign.

[Jerry Springer]

If you're fed up with Washington and think, we need a change, let's do something about it. Join us.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

As Springer's potential candidacy came more into focus, the staff of his show in Chicago grew increasingly worried.

[Brian Schnoor]

Yeah, we hated it. I think if any of us were registered in Ohio, we'd probably start a petition against it. Because we loved our job, we wanted a show to go on.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Brian Schnoor, the teleprompter operator you met in the previous chapter, says that staffers saw Springer's campaign as a threat to their livelihoods. We talked to one producer who actually got a new job during this time because she thought Springer was going to leave to run for office full time. Everyone knew the show could not go on without Springer himself.

[Brian Schnoor]

It would be very difficult to replace Jerry Springer on the Jerry Springer Show. Man, it was a good paycheck, you know, so, yeah, we were all, all very nervous.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

As crazy and unpredictable as the show was, it was also a steady and reliable job for a lot of people. Especially because after a while, the process of making the show became extremely repetitive. It was perfectly orchestrated mayhem. Day after day after day.

[Brian Schnoor]

The whirlwind had settled down. You know, the big hurricane of, oh, my God, it's fighting, and we're on Rolling Stone magazine and we're not taking world by storm, but we're not struggling to get up there either. And it just kind of another day at the office type of feel.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Springer had always kept his distance from the actual making of the show. But at a certain point, Schnorr says, Springer even stopped doing the thing he had once enjoyed the most, writing his final thoughts.

[Brian Schnoor]

Because at that point, the situations were the same. You know, so if I'm married and I have a girlfriend now on the side, and I'm dumping my wife for my girlfriend, the advice isn't going to be much different than if you're dumping your wife for your girlfriend, right? And now he's said that already 200 different ways. How often can you say the same thing in a different way?

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

The final thoughts were the one element of Springer's past that he had brought with him to the Jerry Springer Show. They were kind of like the commentaries he had once delivered on Channel 5 back when the show was first blowing up. Springer would write the final thoughts out by hand. Now, with the episodes becoming so repetitive, he didn't really need to come up with new things to say.

[Brian Schnoor]

And eventually he said, you know what? I have done so many of these done. Gotta be thousands of these final thoughts. How many different ways can I say the same thing? Brian, find a final thought of all the ones I've written that fits this show.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Sometimes Schnorr was literally cutting and pasting bits and pieces of Springer's sentiments together to generate new copy.

[Brian Schnoor]

I would take a final thought from one show and a final thought from another, and I'd fold it and I'd scotch tape it, and I'd say, jerry just needs, like, a transition make these two final thoughts work.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Though it seems like no one noticed at the time, it's not hard to find examples of these recycled final thoughts. The subject of keeping secrets, for instance, inspired Springer to deliver the same monologue at least three separate times.

[Jerry Springer]

You know, the truth is, we all have secrets, part of our lives or personality that we choose not to share with anyone else. Indeed, our closets are full and in each there is a talk show waiting to happen. If you choose to share your life with someone else, that person has the right to make a choice. That person has the right to make a choice as well and as such is entitled to all the information about yourself. He or she is entitled to look in your closet to see if you're a he or she. Til next time, take care of yourself and each other.

[Paul Maslin]

The real key discussion that came up more than once was always what was he contractually obligated to do? And could he ever make a full and complete break?

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

To Paul Maslin, it was obvious that if Springer wanted a chance in hell of improving his unfavorability rating, he had to separate himself from the show. Back in 2000, he had signed a five year, $30 million contract, meaning he was committed to the job through the end of 2005. If he really wanted to run, he would have to break that contract.

[Paul Maslin]

We're not asking you to disown it, but we are asking you to stop it and say, that was then and this is now. What I remember is he said, yeah, guys, A, I got a contract. B, even if I did walk away, you know, the, the reruns might still be airing and I'm in that horrible predicament of saying, I'm no longer doing this and yet people can turn on the TV and still see it. So there was always. That whole extrication piece was always tricky.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

It was tricky and it was a gamble. To make a full time run for Senate, Springer would have to quit the show. But if he were to quit the show only to lose the race, he would be left with nothing. There was also a question about how much distance he should put between himself and the show. Part of the premise of Springer's potential campaign was that he already had supporters, people who would vote for him because they liked the show or at least recognized his name because of it.

[Paul Maslin]

There was definitely a feeling that our audience is not the typical highbrow audience, right? And there was sort of a badge of honor about that. But there was this theory that we've got some group of voters here that we can get that nobody else can. That actually could be a real base.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

In a magazine article from early July of 2003, Mike Pence, then a Republican congressman from Indiana, was quoted as saying, I think Democrats would be wise not to underestimate his ability to reach voters. No one ever lost A fortune underestimating the taste of the American people. To put a finer point on it, a right wing commentator predicted that if Jerry Springer ran for Senate, he would bring all these new people to the polls. There will be slack jawed yokels, hicks, weirdos, pervs and whatnot. Now there may have been some truth to this characterization. Crude as it was, Springer's team did want to bring his fans out to the polls. Of course, these people were not pervs, yokels and weirdos. But it wasn't long before Springer found himself among the so called Hicks. And the central tension within his campaign between embracing his show and trying to transcend it reared its head. It happened in a town called Hicksville.

[Chris Redfern]

It's out in the middle of northwest Ohio. There are more people in the parking lot with Indiana plates because it's just

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

right across the border. Chris Redfern, the Ohio Democratic leader, traveled to Hicksville with Springer to attend a local party dinner. While driving through town, they saw a sign on the side of the road that gave them an idea.

[Chris Redfern]

And it's a green sign with white letters. I believe it is. It says welcome to Hicksville or Hicksville welcomes here. It's just like any other sign. It's not my proudest moment. We pulled over and we took a picture.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

The picture shows Springer grinning and pointing at the Hicksville sign. The joke, as far as I can tell, was that Springer was right where he belonged. A whole town of Hicks who loved his show and probably knew someone who'd been on it. Springer's team saw an opportunity to use the photo as an ironic rejoinder to his critics. They posted it on runjerryrun.com alongside that quote about Springer bringing out the yokels, hicks, weirdos and pervs. But the photograph did not land the way the Springer team had hoped. Instead, it resulted in a public dressing down of Springer by the Republican mayor of Hicksville, who accused him of making her town the butt of a joke. Democratic State Senator Eric Fingerhut, who had his eye on the same Senate seat Springer was looking at, took the opportunity to call out Springer's entire campaign. He's making Ohio a laughingstock, he said. One infomercial doesn't wipe out what he's been doing over the last 10 years. It tragically identifies Ohio with his level of entertainment. I should say here, I don't know how consequential this kerfuffle over the Hicksville photo really was, but it did highlight an ongoing and inescapable problem for Springer that despite all the nice things he said about working class people. It wasn't clear to everyone whether Springer actually wanted to give them a voice or if he was taking advantage of them and making fun of them.

[Paul Maslin]

How many generations of inbreeding is in your family?

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

You can see this exact same dynamic on Springer's show, in which Springer plays the straight man, showing interest and sometimes even compassion towards his guests. But behind him is an entire audience of people laughing at the trashy Hicks on stage and waiting for Springer to give them the floor so they could hurl insults at them. Hi, Jerry, how are you? I just want to know where the whore left her teeth at. This is for the girl in the pink. You say that you cheated on him because you always felt like you were last in line. It looks like the only line to me you ever spent time in is the welfare line.

[Jerry Springer]

All right.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Chris Redfern says it wasn't Springer's base who failed to understand the promise of his candidacy. It was the people in charge of the Democratic Party.

[Chris Redfern]

It's the chattering class of the Democratic Party's elite. Those people who are wealthier, those folks who have provided resources to Democrats across the state, those folks who come and live in communities unlike Hicksville, who aren't part of the joke. They're not part of the joke because they don't know how to tell the joke because they're all worried and judgy and looking inward rather than traveling to Hicksville and sitting in the crowd with Jerry and I and seeing how people were responding to the message. And they wouldn't go to Hicksville because they wouldn't know how to get their Audi to drive that way.

[Jerry Springer]

This is All Things Considered. I'm Robert Siegel. Now, which is more upsetting, finding out that your fiance is a transvestite or that Jerry Springer might run for the United States Senate next year? For some Ohio Democrats, it's a tough call.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

It was true that many high profile Democrats were very open about their disdain for Springer.

[Political Commentator]

Keeping Jerry Springer from making the final decision is the criticism that's been emanating from the Capitol, particularly people like Minority Leader Tom Daschle and Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee Chairman Chairman John Corzine. On a good day, they've said, he's not our first choice. On a bad day, they've said, he's radioactive. He would be a disaster for the party.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

One Democratic senator from Louisiana even said that if Springer made the ticket, she'd have to campaign for his Republican opponent.

[Political Commentator]

But this has become a real divisive issue within the caucus. There's a couple of people who think Springer could bring energy and message and probably most significantly, personal money to this race. And there's a lot of people who think he could drag down Democrats for nationally if he runs.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

As the deadline to announce his decision approached, Springer still wouldn't commit. In late July, he announced from a family vacation in Italy that he was pushing his July 31 deadline off. He needed more time to mull things over.

[Jerry Springer (Infomercial)]

It's a riddle, really, how to use the show to bring him in without

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

turning him off, which meant the media could keep on speculating.

[Jerry Springer (Infomercial)]

A third of Ohio voters are Democrats, A third are Republicans, a third are Independents. Jerry Springer hopes to form a base with those who don't bother to be anything.

[Jerry Springer]

There's two and a half million people here in Ohio that think all politics is bull. They don't believe the Republicans, they don't believe the Democrats. They don't think any politician relates to their needs.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

In early August, Redfern met Springer for breakfast at a Bob Evans in Columbus, Ohio.

[Chris Redfern]

And we work our way through the lobby. We sit down.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

As they ate their eggs, Springer broke the news he had decided not to run. The reason he gave Redfern, or depending on how you look at it, the excuse was that he was just too busy at work.

[Chris Redfern]

He did not say that I can't do it because of the show and the show's value. He put it in the context of, he's just working a lot.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Redfern thought again about the couch metaphor.

[Chris Redfern]

I think Jerry was willing to eat the couch, but maybe only if it was a part of the sectional, not the whole thing.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

At a press conference announcing his decision, Springer blamed his television show. I now realize he said that for me to be a successful candidate, there must be separation from the show. He added that his contract wouldn't allow that in time for the 2004 election.

[Paul Maslin]

Springer said he listened to the people of the state when they told him running for Senate and hosting his particular brand of TV show are not compatible. Springer decided to stick with the show. And by the way, today's show title was but baby, I love you.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Springer wasn't running for office, and the show would go on.

[Richard Dominic]

I probably was bored to death. Just the same shit every day.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Richard Dominic, the executive producer of the show, was growing increasingly tired of it by the time Springer ended his Senate bid. Dominic was trying desperately to make the show feel new.

[Richard Dominic]

And I would always, you gotta give us something else. You gotta give us something else. And then they couldn't, because at that time, you had 2,3000 people a week calling the 800 line trying to get on the air and everybody was come in with the same stuff. I thought, man, I'm just wasting my time. Now anybody could run this show.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

As far back as 1999, Dominic had told a reporter that he wanted to make the Jerry Springer Show a funnier show. Like a Saturday Night Live skit about the Jerry Springer Show. And sure enough, if you watch episodes from the 2000s, you'll notice the camera will randomly cut to these little performances off to the side of the stage. Sometimes there were puppets, sometimes there was a mime or a juggler. It was like Dominic was mocking the whole premise of the show. And while some of Dominic's antics were just dumb, others were downright cruel. Like when he started playing moo sounds when plus sized women walked on stage or flashed. The audience.

[Richard Dominic]

I spent to occupy myself with the sound effects because I thought, okay, if I'm gonna be bored to death anytime I could make a sound effect, you know, it's the big gets big laughs, you know, on Springer. So everybody was having fun but me.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Dominic lasted only a few more years on the show before an incident on the set forced his departure. He did not want to talk to us about it.

[Richard Dominic]

I can't talk about it. Somebody did something, it was not Jerry. I covered it up and basically it was caught doing it. And then it became obvious that it was time for me to go.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Dominic had turned the Jerry Springer show into a cultural phenomenon. He had molded it from a failing Donahue clone into a juggernaut of bad taste, shocking behavior and violence. In a goodbye message, Dominic wrote that he had given the show his all during his 18 years there. I had a great time doing Jerry, he said, but I sure missed a lot in my own life.

[Richard Dominic]

I'm going to be honest with you, the day I walked out, I never saw another episode. I never watched the show, I never watched the rerun. I didn't pay attention because I didn't care.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

But Springer stayed on, making new episodes with the same familiar narratives. Cheating secrets, unusual lifestyles and so forth. Meanwhile, his political buddies Mike Ford and Joe Trippy went to work for Howard Dean, whose brief presidential bid was ended with a shrill yelp.

[Jerry Springer]

And then we're going to Washington D.C. to take back the White House.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

That year, Democrats lost the House, the Senate and the presidency. In Ohio, Springer's would be primary challenger Eric Fingerhut lost to the Republican incumbent.

[Joe Trippie]

History would have been a little bit different because if Jerry had decided to run, I can guarantee you I would have been working for Jerry's Senate campaign and not working for Howard Deans. But like all the rest, it was never meant to be.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

Trippie always thought Springer's campaign would have been like Bobby Kennedy's in 1968, focused on the working class and the marginalized.

[Joe Trippie]

That's the big question mark. Would that kind of campaign in 2003, would it have succeeded? And by the way, had it succeeded, maybe that would have changed the way the Democratic Party was communicating those idealistic things that kind of like got left by the wayside. Gerry may have been the only candidate that could have tried to pull that off. So, like, the regret here, if I've got one, is that my own party didn't recognize that we needed working class whites and blacks joining together in terms of a coalition that would move into the future and build on that idealism that I think Jerry had in him that we're missing today. Instead, Donald Trump did the opposite.

[Narrator (Leon Nayfak)]

That's next on Final Thoughts. Final Thoughts Jerry Springer is presented by Audible Originals and Prologue Projects. The show was hosted by me, Leon Nayfak. Our senior producer was Sam Lee. Our editor was Diane Hodson. Our producers were Kathryn Sullivan and Arlene Arevalo, with additional Production by Dustin DeSoto and Madeline Kaplan. Sound design by Andrew Parsons. Our archival researcher was Laura Coxson, with additional archival production by Frances Carr. Our fact checker was Maggie Duffy, with additional fact checking by Madeline Kaplan. Our theme song was composed by Billy Libby. Audio mix by Erica Wong. Andrew Parsons was the executive producer at Prologue Projects. Heather Juan Tesorero was the executive producer at audible originals. Copyright 2025 by Prologue Projects Sound Recording Copyright 2025 by Audible Originals.