Flirty Little Secrets | 3

Summary

OnlyFantasy – Episode 3: Flirty Little Secrets (May 28, 2026)

Host: Matt Ford (with Alice Levine, Gracie Canaan, Leon Neyfakh)
Guests: Rachel Steele, Sunny Crittenden

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Episode Overview

In this episode, journalist Leon Neyfakh, comedian and OnlyFans creator Gracie Canaan, and host Matt Ford continue their deep dive into the world of OnlyFans and adult entertainment. “Flirty Little Secrets” examines what happens when digital intimacy spills over into real lives—either by exposing secrets, building unexpected relationships, or revealing the emotional needs that these online interactions fulfill for creators and subscribers alike. Through conversations with veteran performers Rachel Steele and Sunny Crittenden, as well as personal reflections, this episode explores the complexity, consequences, and, at times, tenderness of secrets, shame, and connection in online fantasy spaces.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. When Secrets Come Out: The OnlyFans Confession

Timestamps: 00:13–09:22

• The Incident:
  Gracie recounts a striking OnlyFans message: a new subscriber turns out to be the wife of one of her closest subscribers, disclosing she’s a breast cancer survivor and confronting her husband’s secret interactions.

  • “This is probably the person I know the best on here.” (Alice Levine, 01:28)

• Navigating Responsibility and Sympathy:
  Gracie describes feeling no guilt for unknowingly being part of the situation but sympathizes with the wife’s experience. She notes the wife’s reaction: “It’d be one thing if he was just jacking off to Pornhub, but he’s now spending time, money and energy on you. And that’s a hard pill to swallow.” (Alice Levine, 03:18)

• Guilt, Neutrality, and Comforting the Wife:
  Gracie handles the confrontation with compassion, affirming that responsibility lies with the subscriber’s dishonesty rather than her role as creator.

  “The most gentle thing I can offer is this is very much his problem. And women, like, we have a tendency to bear the burden of things that, like, are not on us.”
  (Alice Levine, 05:23)

• What Makes Online Secrets So Alluring?
  Matt reflects on the appeal of secrets in digital spaces, relating it to his own “dirty little habit” of secrecy (on Reddit, gambling, and previously, nicotine), questioning if OnlyFans is more about privacy and self-exploration than sexual fantasy alone.

  “It makes me wonder whether OnlyFans is less about sex and more about that pocket of privacy, that place where you get to be a version of yourself that you don’t show to anyone else.”
  (Matt Ford, 08:14)

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2. A MILF Walks Into the Internet: Rachel Steele’s Story

Timestamps: 10:48–24:58

• Rachel Steele’s Origin:
  The segment details how Rachel, a Tampa hair salon owner in her 40s, stumbles into online sex work after winning a ‘hottest wife’ contest. She transitions from backyard photo shoots to webcamming and later to shooting and selling her own videos.

  • “Can I take more pictures by the pool and make another 600 bucks?” (Alice Levine, 13:10)

• Cam Girl Pragmatism & Kink Acceptance:
  Rachel recounts a formative era of camming, dealing with everything from foot fetishes to complex food play—often in her husband’s office. She handles requests with a blend of humor and professionalism.

  • “I was in there with a rubber sheet on the floor, squirting maple syrup all over me and, you know, with a dildo and a cucumber and mustard, mayonnaise all over me… He would do him at the very end of the day because I’m like, this is too messy.” (Rachel Steele, 16:06)

• Taboo Fantasies and Acceptance:
  Rachel discusses the prevalence of ‘MILF’ and ‘incest play’ genres, noting how detached the fantasy is from real desires, and how acceptance benefits subscribers’ emotional health.

  • “If people can just be who they are and without harming anyone in the process. You have happier individuals walking around instead of angry individuals that are suppressing everything… If you have these thoughts and kinks and desires and everyone’s telling you you’re sick, you know, how are you in society?” (Rachel Steele, 24:08)

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3. Internet Crushes, Cam Girls, and Parasocial Intimacy

Timestamps: 25:06–44:51

• Matt Shares His Own Past:
  Recalling his first internet crush—a cam girl named Sunny—Matt explores early digital intimacy and the proto-influencer phenomenon.

• Sunny Crittenden: Internet Pioneer:
  Sunny describes becoming a minor celeb on ‘ratemenewd.com’ and Style Project, emphasizing community and exhibitionism over money.

  “We were there to be exhibitionists. And nudity was part of that… Like, what I saw, what I was doing is like being a stripper. Like a digital stripper, but without the dancing.”
  (Sunny Crittenden, 33:24)

• The 'Daddy' Dynamic:
  Sunny details how many cam fans, often married, gravitate toward cam girls not to cheat, but to nurture and “build her into the ideal person.” She acknowledges her own positive response to such attention due to her familial history.

  • “They want to help you do well, because somehow it’s a reflection on them that they picked a winner… I respond to the daddy type person very well.” (Sunny Crittenden, 37:53–39:01)

• Why So Many Fans Are Married:
  Both Sunny and Gracie confirm that most of their regulars are married men seeking attention, nostalgia, or an escape from routine.

  • “Marriage probably doesn’t work for anybody because they were all married almost… the wives didn’t know about it. And I thought that was shitty.” (Sunny Crittenden, 39:50)

• Nostalgia, Loneliness, and Living Online:
  These married men are often seeking to reconnect with a sense of being young at heart—or rediscovering “butterflies.”

  • “Their secret digital lives… are about more than just boobs. They’re about rediscovering butterflies.” (Alice Levine, 42:30)

• The Toll of Virtual Living:
  Sunny reveals that her intense online life led to agoraphobia, isolation, and reliance on virtual relationships until recently.

  “I didn’t have a real life friend. Let’s put it this—no, no. They were all Internet friends. My whole world just became the Internet… up until four years ago, like, it was just few and far between.”
  (Sunny Crittenden, 44:51)

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4. When the Fantasy Becomes Real

Timestamps: 47:25–51:49

• Rachel Steele’s Real-Life Romance:
  Rachel meets her current (younger) partner—a long-time fan—through Kik, turning a digital connection into a real relationship. Her children only learned of her adult career after her husband's death.

  “When we met and, you know, started seeing each other, it was his little dream come true. And then we’ve been together for six years. He’s still a fan.”
  (Rachel Steele, 51:16)

• On Coming Clean:
  Rachel reflects on finally being honest with family about her career and relationship, revealing that her current partner is the same age as her children.

  • “I’m not saying anyone should try to meet and fall in love with a creator. In fact, please don’t. But I found something sweet about Rachel and her young hubby.” (Alice Levine, 52:04)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Secret Fantasies:
  “It’s like, would this have been as comforting or as titillating to him if he had been open about it with his wife?”
  (Alice Levine, 07:04)

• On Online Selves:
  “The curious one, the lonely one, the I miss who I used to be one. It’s precious, and… sometimes the only safe place to let that person out is online.”
  (Alice Levine, 08:23)

• On Performing for Fetishes:
  “So you’re at 5:30 because I can’t go to my next appointment with ketchup in my hair.”
  (Rachel Steele, 16:29)

• On Community and Specialness:
  “Suddenly I felt popular for the first time in my life… they would treat me special. I would be an honored guest. And that was a weird feeling, and still is a weird feeling.”
  (Sunny Crittenden, 34:28)

• On Internet versus Real-Life Legitimacy:
  “Do you feel like that’s true about relationships, too, that they have to be in the real world to be legitimate or legitimized?”
  (Matt Ford, 47:04)
  “I didn’t used to think that, but now I do.”
  (Sunny Crittenden, 47:11)

• On Making Fantasy Real:
  “What begins as a secret that lives inside your computer can become your actual life… Anything’s possible.”
  (Matt Ford, 51:49)

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Segment Timestamps for Quick Reference

• 00:13–09:22 — Gracie's OnlyFans “secret gets revealed” story & Matt’s introspection on secrecy
• 10:48–24:58 — Rachel Steele on camming, kinks, taboo, and acceptance
• 25:06–44:51 — Matt and Sunny’s stories: Internet crushes, cam community, married subscribers, loneliness
• 47:25–51:49 — Rachel’s real-life romance with a subscriber
• 51:49–52:19 — Reflections on dreams and what happens when fantasy meets reality

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Themes & Takeaways

• Digital intimacy is not just sexual—it's emotional, nostalgic, and even therapeutic;
• Secrets and fantasy lives online have deep personal consequences, both for creators and subscribers;
• Shame, acceptance, and connection drive much of the online adult marketplace;
• Sometimes, what starts as a fantasy can become real—and sometimes, the consequences are complicated.

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Transcript

[Matt Ford]

Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Only Fantasy early and ad free. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

[Alice Levine]

Good to know that service works down here. Hi, how are you?

[Matt Ford]

Where are you?

[Alice Levine]

I'm in the Bahamas.

[Matt Ford]

What? Wow. Yeah. My friend Nina Gracie was poolside when we got on the phone in July of last year for one of our semi regular check ins. I wasn't trying to interrupt Gracie's vacation with a boring work call, but she had just told me over Slack that she had something to share about a crazy interaction she'd had on OnlyFans.

[Alice Levine]

Basically, what happened is I get a new subscriber and I message them and I'm like, hey, person, what brings you here? And they go, well, I'm in recovery for breast cancer and the wife of a subscriber. So I came here to, like, see, like, what it's all about. And this guy is busted and she's definitely pissed.

[Matt Ford]

And yeah, this sounded stressful, but I figured, how bad can it be? In all likelihood, this lady's husband was just a random subscriber that Gracie wouldn't know from Adam. Right.

[Alice Levine]

I didn't know who it was at first. I was like, oh, I don't know who your partner is, blah, blah, blah. And they were like, it's this person. And I was like, holy shit. This is probably the person I know the best on here.

[Matt Ford]

Oh, wow.

[Alice Levine]

Yeah.

[Matt Ford]

Wow.

[Alice Levine]

Yeah.

[Matt Ford]

So because Gracie is not naive, she knows that some of her subscribers have romantic partners in their lives. There's one study of OnlyFans subscribers not peer reviewed. Admittedly, that suggested almost 90% of them are married. But Gracie was not aware that this particular guy was spoken for.

[Alice Levine]

I also don't have a habit of asking that. Like, I'm like, tell me a little bit more about yourself and it's like your job or what you do for fun. It's never like, tell me you're like, I'm not here to remind anyone of their wife and kids.

[Matt Ford]

Gracie told me that she had felt a special bond with his subscriber. It was mostly a friendship, albeit one that he would occasionally steer into the realm of romantic and sexual fantasy.

[Alice Levine]

It would be like, we're having wine in a French chateau, and it would be like describing the date, and then we go out to the lake and we have, like, sex in the lake. But then it would immediately. It could immediately flip back to like, hey, I hope your comedy tour is going well.

[Matt Ford]

Basically, collaborative fan fiction is how it is. How that Works.

[Alice Levine]

Yes, yeah, exactly, exactly. And then I would kind of like, I would be like, oh my God, that's so hot, blah, blah, blah. Which I wasn't lying about. I was like, yeah, this guy's good at this and it's fun. It felt very innocent. You know, a great example of my relationship with him is we would be sexting and then the next day I would post like, oh, I'm sick in bed. And he would send me a tip and be like, go get soup, you know, so. And I think that's understandably what his partner is very upset with. You know, she even said she was like, it'd be one thing if he was just jacking off to pornhub, but he's now spending time, money and energy on you. And that's a hard pill to swallow. Yeah.

[Matt Ford]

Gracie was clearly rattled. I'm sure I would have been too if I were in her shoes. But I was curious. Did she feel responsible? Guilty even?

[Alice Levine]

Okay, here's the thing. I don't feel guilty because I had no knowledge of this. Even if I did, it's not my problem. My first instinct was to stay neutral. Like my, my mantra in life is no sudden movements. Like, see what's up? Does this person want to confront you? Do they want to blame you? Do they want to divorce their husband? Like, what's up? But I did feel like, very sympathetic. And I said, wow, I can only imagine how tough that is. I'm really happy to hear you're in recovery. And then I just said, how are you feeling about everything? She goes, I respect it for sure. She goes, you're funny and a stunner. So I get the combo and I'm just deciding how to feel about all this new information.

[Matt Ford]

Did any part of you think I should just not engage on this?

[Alice Levine]

Yeah, I think if it had been like, you're a whore and a homewrecker and blah blah, blah, I would not have engaged. But I think because she immediately off the bat sounded curious, mature, and very gentle, my first instinct was to comfort her. I was like, if this will take me like two minutes to send these messages and if I can tell her, hey, no, we've never met up. We've never even video chatted or called. If I can kind of help her. And then once it started being like, oh, hey, I have more specific questions and can you like give me pointers on how to spice things up and who better to teach me than like his fantasy girlfriend? And I was like, okay, hun, this fucking sucks. Like, my heart really went out to her. I was like, look, the most gentle thing I can offer is this is very much his problem. And women, like, we have a tendency to bear the burden of things that, like, are not on us, but, yeah. And then she just said, thank you, Hart. And then he's since unfollowed me and.

[Matt Ford]

Oh, he does? Yeah.

[Alice Levine]

I was gonna block both of them, but then he wasn't there to block. And it feels weird that I'm not in contact with him anymore, even though I am, like, the last person to be worried about in this situation. Obviously, way higher stakes, but it does feel weird. Like I'm wondering, oh, my God, I hope they're okay. Like, I hope they're working through it.

[Matt Ford]

The thing you said to her at the end about how, like, this is his problem. When you say problem, are you talking about the fact that he wants this or needs this or the fact that he was dishonest about it with her?

[Alice Levine]

The fact that he was dishonest. And she did mention in her correspondence, she was like, I'm really pissed because obviously, like, she's going through fucking cancer. She mentions, I don't feel very sexy right now. And so she point blank asked him if he had had any interest in anyone else, if he needed anything else, and he flat out denied it.

[Matt Ford]

That was something she recounted to you in her. In one of her messages?

[Alice Levine]

Yes. She said, I'm, like, the most upset about the dishonesty because I'm an open book with this person. So I understand that anger of being like, hey, I'm open, I'm flexible, I want us to work. I'm giving you every chance. And you. So it almost makes me think it's like, you men need a secret to feel excited. You know, it's like. It's like, would this have been as comforting or as titillating to him if he had been open about it with his wife?

[Matt Ford]

That question really struck me. As I've mentioned, I'm a married man. And I confess, I do love having a little secret. If you listen to my old podcast, Backfired at the Vaping wars, there's a whole subplot about my addiction to nicotine. And some part of the allure for me in cigarettes and vaping was the fact that I would often do it in private. It was a dirty little habit, but it was my dirty little habit. And even now, I still gravitate toward those hidden spaces. A burner account on Reddit, a late night at a blackjack table in Vegas when all my friends have gone to bed. It makes me wonder whether OnlyFans is less about sex and less about these pseudo girlfriend experiences and more about that pocket of privacy, that place where you get to be a version of yourself that you don't show to anyone else.

[Alice Levine]

Everyone has that version of themselves. The curious one, the lonely one, the I miss who I used to be one. It's precious, and it may not mix well with who we are now on the outside, at work, at holiday parties, at church. Sometimes the only safe place to let that person out is online. But when that online self starts feeling more vivid than your actual life, what does that say about what we're really looking for? Why do the lives we lead on the Internet sometimes feel truer, more exciting, or more alive than the ones we lead in daylight? This is Only fantasy episode 3 Flirty Little Secrets.

[Audible Announcer]

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[Alice Levine]

Thanks for coming all the way from Where'd you come from today?

[Rachel Steele]

Today I was in Encino. Shooting in Encino the day before we

[Alice Levine]

dropped into the Creators Inc. House. Last summer, Leon, Sam and I visited a recording studio in a strip mall in Burbank, California to talk to porn star and OnlyFans creator Rach Steele. Rachel's got stunning green eyes, a full head of auburn hair, and a voluptuous figure. I can only hope to look that good when I hit my 60s. I asked her how her day of work, aka having sex on camera went.

[Rachel Steele]

Can we be honest, please? So I worked with a new talent Today, a new male talent that was recommended to me by another woman in the industry who has a large following.

[Alice Levine]

So.

[Rachel Steele]

So I just took her word that this person would be fine and he couldn't perform. So I drove 45 minutes to an hour to get there, got up really early, did hair and makeup, packed up clothing and outfits, paid the photographer, and yeah, he could not perform. But so I. Other than that, it's a beautiful day and, you know, this is part of the job.

[Sunny Crittenden]

Yeah.

[Alice Levine]

Occupational hazard.

[Rachel Steele]

Yes.

[Matt Ford]

Rachel Steele, like so many of the creators we've talked to, has been on OnlyFans since the pandemic. But her path to it stretches back to a distinctly pre Onlyfans era of online sex work.

[Alice Levine]

Rachel kind of stumbled into the porn industry as one does. In 2005. She was in her 40s, running a hair salon in Tampa, Florida and happily married. In true Florida fashion, Rachel and her husband Mike love to unwind by hanging out by their backyard pool.

[Rachel Steele]

We were just out there on a hot day drinking margaritas, and I was all buzzed up and feeling fun and funny. So I just jumped in the pool and I jumped out and I'm like, look, look. Wet T shirt contest. Ooh, I'm Bo Derek. Oh, take a picture. So he did. He started snapping pictures, and then a couple days later he said, you know, those pictures we took by the pool actually came out pretty good.

[Alice Levine]

The pictures were so good that Mike ended up submitting them to an online contest. Looking for America's hottest wives. Rachel won something like $600. She thought, well, hell, this is easy. Can I take more pictures by the pool and make another 600 bucks? She went back online and discovered a whole world of websites devoted to hot wives and mature women.

[Matt Ford]

She also found out that there were a growing number of webcam sites where men could pay money to see women get naked on camera. A sort of virtual peep show. This was the early 2000s, and at the time, camming was a new and burgeoning business.

[Alice Levine]

Hey, this is one of those dirty websites.

[Rachel Steele]

Scantily clad coeds.

[Matt Ford]

Why you little.

[Alice Levine]

Rachel wound up connecting with the webmaster for a UK based campsite, and he helped her get set up as a cam girl. The first step was picking a stage name.

[Rachel Steele]

I said, what about Rachel? But I don't know about the last name. And he said, you have nice, strong, hard abs. Why not just Steele, like abs of steel? Rachel Steele. And I was like, oh, I love that. So that was it. That's how Rachel Steele was born.

[Alice Levine]

It's superwoman vibes. For sure.

[Matt Ford]

When Rachel Steele made her online debut, the campsite she was on was relatively straightforward. Rachel's image appeared on a homepage as a thumbnail with a lineup of other women that men could choose from. Rachel would log on, click a button that said I'm available, and a green icon would show up next to her name, almost like a taxicab on duty sign. And like a cab driver, Rachel would sit and wait for a fare.

[Rachel Steele]

And it was 10 minutes, $35 if you want sound, which I don't understand why they wouldn't. But some chose no sound, then it was $45 and that was it. You get a 10 minute session and if they want another session, it double that. It was very basic and simple and easy.

[Alice Levine]

Once a customer paid, they could enter her virtual room for a one on one session. She'd start with a quick conversation, a sort of consult, much like she would do at the hair salon.

[Rachel Steele]

What do you want to see today? What can I do for you today? And then they would tell me, and then I would just play out, play out whatever it is their fantasy was.

[Alice Levine]

This is something I should know. Are CAMs one or two ways?

[Rachel Steele]

Great question. That's another choice. That's another choice that you both have. Most of them wanted it off. They didn't want me to see them. And back then too, I feel like there was a lot of shame because I remember people just in the dark, hiding and telling me their kinks, their fetishes, and just being very shamed about it. One was into food. He would say, what's in your fridge? And I'm like, you know what's in my fridge? Just tell me what you want me to go get. And then he would tell me, mayonnaise, mustard, ketchup, pickles, cucumbers, whatever. Do you have any chocolate sauce? And I was doing this all in my husband's office, his corporate office. He was a retired marine, square peg as can be. And I'm in there with a rubber sheet on the floor squirting maple syrup all over me and, you know, with a dildo and a cucumber and mustard, mayonnaise all over me. I would do him at the very end of the day because I'm like, this is too messy. I have to take a shower. I'm gonna mess up my hair and my makeup. So you're at 5:30 because I can't

[Alice Levine]

go to my next appointment with ketchup in my hair.

[Rachel Steele]

Exactly, exactly. Not everybody's kink.

[Alice Levine]

So Rachel quickly learned there's no Such thing as average or normal. When someone new logged on, she was never quite sure what they'd ask her to do. She just had to roll with the punches.

[Rachel Steele]

There was other fetishes, like foot fetish, shoe fetish. Probably one of the craziest ones to date would be the scuba gear. You would probably think the craziest one is going to be something so sexual, and this is not. He's like, do you have scuba gear? And my husband was a diver. I'm like, I do. It's right in the closet. I'm looking right at it right now. What do you want me to put on? He's like, flippers mask, the snorkel thing. So I put it on and then I would sit in the chair and pretend that I'm underwater. Just like move my arms around and like make motions with my mouth that I'm like underwater. That would be a 10 minute show. And he would just masturbate to that.

[Alice Levine]

That I've never heard of anything like that. And I've heard of a lot of kinks and that is awesome.

[Rachel Steele]

Yep, every single one is different. Everyone has their own little thumbprint.

[Alice Levine]

Rachel learned a lot about the variety of sexual fantasies out there, but she didn't learn a lot about the personal lives of the men she performed for. There was a ticking clock. If they paid for 10 minutes, the camera would automatically go off after 10 minutes. There wasn't a lot of time for small talk. And yet for Rachel, all those little peaks behind the curtain added up. Did you kind of get anything obviously more than money out of those kind of connections where it's like, oh, I know you. And they're like, how did that feel?

[Rachel Steele]

I loved it. I was laughing and happy. Like it was like a little kid playing dress up, you know, with a chest full of clothes. I'm like, I never know what's gonna come next. I loved it and I felt good because people would quickly say at the end of sessions, sometimes, you know, it feels so good to be able to do this. I've been so shamed all my life. I'm kink shamed or I'm in a very vanilla marriage. And there's no way my wife would ever play like this with me. So I was like, wow, I'm really helping people. Like there's a lot of people that are feeling really good after these sessions. And I literally helped them mentally, emotionally, spiritually, you know, and it was making me feel good too, to be able to help like that.

[Matt Ford]

Rachel eventually set up a camera in the corner of the office and started recording herself doing the live webcam sessions. She found a site called clipsforsale.com, where she could upload and sell these videos direct to consumers. This was when Rachel learned that she fit a well known and lucrative niche in the porn world. Maybe you've heard of it. Shit. Cannot believe a fine woman like this produced a guy like stiffner. Dude, I took some milf.

[Alice Levine]

What the hell's that?

[Matt Ford]

M I L F A mom I'd like to fuck. Yeah, dude.

[Alice Levine]

The word MILF was popularized in 1999 thanks to the movie American Pie. In porn terms, MILF doesn't necessarily mean an actual mom. It refers to an actress who reads on the screen as a mature, older woman. So anyone over 30, which includes me.

[Matt Ford]

Gulp.

[Alice Levine]

In a savvy marketing move by Rachel, she realized she could basically keep making the exact same content, but put the word milf in front of every title and it would get a lot more traction.

[Rachel Steele]

MILF wears heels, milf's feet. Milf. I put MILF in front of everything and that was it. That was my label. So MILF Scuba. MILF Scuba, yes.

[Matt Ford]

Now maybe this is common knowledge. After all, MILF was the number two most searched term on pornhub last year. But I personally was shocked to learn from Rachel that a lot of MILF porn is often about, forgive me, incest play. The male actors in these videos are usually young enough to be their co stars, sons, and in fact, in many cases, that's who they're supposed to be playing. Even though they're often billed as the stepson or the student to avoid rules against portraying actual incest on screen. Were you surprised that there was a market for that? Like, is it that that fantasy was widespread enough that they could be.

[Rachel Steele]

Mm, yeah, mostly because it's not really my fantasy. It's not like what I fantasize about. So it's always a little surprising when people tell you, you know, they are fantasies and then it's huge. And to this day, it's like MILF is one of the number one searched genres out there.

[Matt Ford]

As Rachel embraced her newfound status as a milf, she also started incorporating her husband into some of the videos. She had to make sure he didn't talk too much or show his face so that people didn't see how old he really was. Eventually he got tired of it. So Rachel found other partners and started making real deal pornos that she produced and wrote herself. Can you tell us about some of the early storylines that you had success with?

[Rachel Steele]

Yeah, There was one called Breakfast Fuck, and since then I've done two.

[Matt Ford]

What happens in that one?

[Rachel Steele]

Well, it's a long story.

[Matt Ford]

If you want to know what happens in Breakfast Fuck, you can still find the 9 minute video for $11.99 on clipsforsale.com along with the Breakfast Fuck sequel and a host of other brilliantly titled content below.

[Rachel Steele]

Job for College Bound stepson Beauty and the monster that was actually alien porn Squirting milf Come in my Shoe, Slave boy.

[Alice Levine]

That's my favorite.

[Rachel Steele]

Milf Mayhem Torturing my Boy toy. Oh, one of my favorites. Leave it to my beaver.

[Matt Ford]

If you couldn't tell before, I was pretty flabbergasted by the whole incest thing. And I couldn't help but press Rachel on what exactly is going on with the guys who are into it. Were you at first skeptical of the

[Rachel Steele]

people who wanted this?

[Matt Ford]

Were you like, ew, you want to fuck your mom?

[Sunny Crittenden]

No.

[Rachel Steele]

Because early on in the cam days, there was a couple of guys that did say stuff about mom and mommy, and they would explain to me, you know, this is not because I think about my actual mom. It's just part of my fantasy. Like, and then I just, I, you know, put it all together and realize that it's just older woman, younger man. They like the age gap. There's all kinds of different little parts of it. It's a little complex, I think.

[Matt Ford]

Like, yeah, I mean, it does strike me as like one of the. As a fetish that people would keep secret because they're. They would be scared for people to find out that they want that. I think it's because the inference that most people would make is like, you want this because you have sexual feelings for your mother. And that, as you say, that is the definition of taboo, right?

[Rachel Steele]

Yeah. Yeah. But it's sad because if you say, daddy, I like daddy stuff, I like daddy porn, I like, you know, that's okay. But when it's mommy, it's. Something's up.

[Alice Levine]

Maybe Rachel isn't exactly on my same quest to save men, but it's clear that she feels connecting with her fans and accepting their unique kinks and desires is about more than just servicing one individual's need. It is, in a small way, for the greater good.

[Rachel Steele]

You know, I feel like that helps society as a whole. If people can just be who they are and without harming anyone in the process. You have happier individuals walking around instead of angry individuals that are suppressing everything and keeping things in and feeling it can really mess with you mentally. If you don't feel like you fit. And if you have these thoughts and kinks and desires and fantasies and everyone's telling you you're sick, you know, how are you in society? So we just need to have more acceptance, and that's just not happening today. You know, trans community, everything. It's just we're like going backwards. We're going backwards to the Leave it to my beaver days, and it's just not good.

[Alice Levine]

Way more leave it. Way less beaver.

[Rachel Steele]

Exactly.

[Matt Ford]

So, Gracie, I feel like I was judgy enough in that interview about other people's porn preferences here that I should confess that I too have looked at porn on the Internet.

[Alice Levine]

Oh, really? I thought you were the only one who abstained. This is shocking information.

[Matt Ford]

I know, I know. Sad. No, I actually remember very distinctly the first time I saw pornography. It was probably when I was in fourth or fifth grade. I remember I was at a family friend's house. My mom's friend had a son who was a little older than me, and he took me upstairs to his room while our parents were hanging out. And on the very same day, he showed me porn and also ebay.

[Alice Levine]

Wow, those are both highly addictive. That's a lot for one day. Like, your life would never be the same again.

[Matt Ford]

Truly. Truly. And so, yeah, I just remember the video he showed me, which, I don't know, I guess he had downloaded from somewhere, and it was just like an extreme close up of a penis going into and out of a vagina.

[Alice Levine]

That does not sound sexy. It sounds like a nature documentary.

[Matt Ford]

It really was. Like, it almost looked like a hydraulic pump or something. I did not find it particularly erotic or alluring, though I suppose I was kind of morbidly intrigued. It wasn't until later on, and I don't remember exactly when this happened, but I did eventually start looking at porn on my own time, I guess you could say. And I was finally like, okay, yeah, I'm interested in this.

[Alice Levine]

So what were you into?

[Matt Ford]

So my most vivid memory that I still carry around is of a cam girl who, as far as I could tell, was not a porn star. Like, she wasn't famous exactly, but she was a professional Internet personality. Like a proto influencer, I guess you could say, who also got naked on camera. And I honestly still remember so much about her to this day. She had, like, bleached blonde hair. She was kind of alt, a little Hot Topic. She wore, like, chunky necklaces and band T shirts, and she would wear her pigtails up really high up on her head.

[Sunny Crittenden]

Mm.

[Alice Levine]

Space tales. Yeah. Space tales means you go to warp tour.

[Matt Ford]

Yes. Okay, that checks out.

[Sunny Crittenden]

Yeah.

[Alice Levine]

Uh, what was her name?

[Matt Ford]

Uh, her name was Sunny. No, no last name as far as I knew at the time. Um, but then we started working on this podcast together, Gracie. And I looked her up and I got her email address and her phone number and I called her Blast from the past. What did you want to do on there? Like, what did you want to show the world? What was your goal or your dream or what were you imagining?

[Sunny Crittenden]

I didn't have a goal or a dream. I honestly didn't. I knew I was going to be naked.

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[Sunny Crittenden]

I submitted my first nudes ever on the Internet taken with an analog camera and scanned to this website and I made number one really quickly and. And I was like, that's cool. That's awesome. I'm fucking cool. I'm cool on the Internet. This is cool. I love this.

[Matt Ford]

That is Sunny Crittenden, one of the first women I ever had a crush on from the Internet.

[Sunny Crittenden]

This was ratemenewd.com this was before hotornot.com and you submitted naked pictures to it. They would post your pictures, and people would basically just rate you one to ten. And the person who got the most tens was at the top of the list. And then it went down.

[Matt Ford]

Sunny lived in an apartment above her mom's wallpaper store in Canada. She didn't have a job and was on welfare. Her world was small, but she did have a computer, and she used it to tap into a much larger world via the Internet. On Rate Me Nude, she felt like a star, at least at first.

[Sunny Crittenden]

I wake up one day, and all of a sudden I'm like, number 20. Like, I just dropped 20 places, and I'm like, oh, my God, what the fuck happened? Like, overnight.

[Matt Ford]

Looking at the girls who had knocked her off from the number one spot, Sunny noticed they all had something in common.

[Sunny Crittenden]

There's all these women that have style projects written on their bodies in eyeliner or Sharpie.

[Matt Ford]

They all seem to be associated with something called the Style Project. Style spelled in the creepiest possible way. S, T, I, L, E. And I'm

[Sunny Crittenden]

like, what the fuck is Style Project?

[Matt Ford]

Pretty soon, Sunny realized that there was this portal that she could step through this corner of the Internet that really intrigued her.

[Sunny Crittenden]

So I loaded up the portal and realized what it was and thought it was the coolest thing I had ever seen in my life. And I made it my mission to be asked to be on it.

[Matt Ford]

Gracie, I don't know if you can picture this, but the Style Project cam portal featured six cam girls at a time. So three on top, three on bottom.

[Alice Levine]

Okay, so kind of like Brady Bunch style.

[Matt Ford]

Yeah, exactly. That's also how Sunny put it.

[Sunny Crittenden]

When the webpage reloaded, they would each have a new picture of what was happening, you know, quote, unquote, live.

[Matt Ford]

What was so cool about it to you?

[Sunny Crittenden]

What was so cool about it was that they were all people my age from all around North America and the UK And Australia and New Zealand. And we all had this connection, this, like, Internet nerd connection. But they got to be visible, like they were elevated above anybody else on the Internet because their faces were right there, you know, and their personalities were right there on full display, almost like a tv. And I wanted that for better or for worse.

[Matt Ford]

After becoming a fixture in the Style Project, Chat room and befriending the site's founder. Sunny got herself a slot in the portal and she started posting. This was a few years before Rachel Steele started camming. And the crazy thing to keep in mind here is that it was also long before streaming video. So the webcam Sunny was using and that everyone on Style Project was using was just taking still photos.

[Sunny Crittenden]

There was no streaming and there was no audio. When I first started, it was just still Images uploaded every 30 seconds to a webpage that was also refreshing every 30 seconds. We were there to show off, like we were there to be exhibitionists. And nudity was part of that. It just reminded me of burlesque. Like, we were there. We were naked, we were beautiful, but we were also funny and entertaining, like Mae West. Like, what I saw, what I was doing is like being a stripper. Like a digital stripper, but without the dancing.

[Alice Levine]

Ah, yes, digital stripping. Or as I called it when I went from dancing IRL to OnlyFans sex, working from home. You can be pantsless for both, right?

[Matt Ford]

Well, for Sunny, it was kind of perfect. She really liked being a digital stripper. She kind of felt like it was her calling, especially as she built this community around herself, first on Style Project and then later on a website called camhorres.com, which I confess is probably where I first encountered her.

[Sunny Crittenden]

Suddenly I felt popular for the first time in my life. Like, I'm an only child. So, I mean, I am a very solitary, independent person, and I am not used to having people pay attention to me at all. And pretty much since I got to the Internet, I've realized people have treated me special, which is a weird feeling. And I don't know how to describe it other than feeling special. Like, if I were to visit somebody's state, like one of my. One of my audience members say I was to go on a book tour, I could probably stay at people's houses on every single stop without problem. And they would treat me like a queen, and they would treat me special. They wouldn't treat me just like anybody else or just like another friend or like somebody they're doing a favor for. I would be an honored guest. And that was a weird feeling, and still is a weird feeling.

[Alice Levine]

It's so funny. Cause today's digital strippers, whether they're on campsites, onlyfans, whatever, like, they're there because it can be lucrative, you know, if it's not their job, it's their side hustle. But the way Sunny describes it, like she was in it for the love of the game, you know, she felt like the front woman of a cool indie band with culty groupies or something.

[Matt Ford]

Totally. That's. That's what I picture. Also, especially because Sunny's Internet groupies weren't limited to style project or Camhorse. She also had a LiveJournal where she would post every day, like the equivalent of a book a month of, you know, just extremely raw, often funny, confessional memoir about her childhood and various struggles she went through growing up. And I think that livejournal was a big part of the appeal for a lot of her fans, including even me, to some extent. Like, I thought she was hot, but more importantly, I thought she seemed cool. You know, she sort of made me feel the way multiple girls in real life had made me feel, which was like, she knows something I don't, and I want to know.

[Alice Levine]

Kind of like girls you might have known at school but would never dare approach.

[Matt Ford]

Yeah, exactly. Though even with Sunny, I was just a kid lurking and looking at her photos. Like, didn't even occur to me that I could approach her or send her an email. So I was curious when I talked to her as an adult about the people who did do that. Like, who were these men who actually reached out and had a parasocial relationship with her, and what were they getting out of it?

[Sunny Crittenden]

Are you familiar with the daddy stereotype in the kink sense?

[Matt Ford]

No.

[Sunny Crittenden]

Okay. That's a bigger conversation. A daddy is usually a man, usually an older man, who sees a young girl, sees potential in her, and wants to nurture that potential to build her into the ideal person. There's men who fit that stereotype, and a lot of them are the people who watch cam girls.

[Matt Ford]

Interesting. And so how would. And so how would they express all that to you?

[Sunny Crittenden]

So when I started, I was in college and I was going to school to be a copywriter, and one of my final projects was to do an ad campaign for Joan Soda. And so I had several men that were watching my webcam at the time send me very expensive Jones Soda merch from their website, like, all this expensive stuff. But it was all to help me do better in school and do better with my presentation. And that's what I mean by they want to help you do well, because somehow it's a reflection on them that they picked a winner, if that makes sense. They put their money on the right horse. I have a really complicated relationship with all of my father figures, and I respond well to positive male attention. I find it very motivating and So I respond to the daddy type person very well. So I was all about it.

[Alice Levine]

Pick me.

[Sunny Crittenden]

Pick me.

[Alice Levine]

So, Leon, I am happy to report that these daddies are still alive and well. I'm lucky enough to have a handful of my own on my OnlyFans page. They're kind of gracious folk who send me extra tips simply because they're invested in my life. Like, they know the latest drama. They can see that I've had a bad day, they want to celebrate something with me. And when they can contribute to that, I think they feel like they're a part of something. And that, I've been told, gives them a certain kind of satisfaction.

[Matt Ford]

Yeah, I can see that. Though there is another aspect of Sunny's experience, Gracie, that I think you'll relate to, which is that she told me that almost all of the men who followed her and interacted with her on cam horrors were married.

[Alice Levine]

Ah, yes. Those people are also alive and well.

[Sunny Crittenden]

Made me very aware of the fact that marriage probably doesn't work for anybody because they were all married almost. And with the exception of one, the wives didn't know about it. And I thought that was shitty.

[Matt Ford]

And so what was your inference of, like, what was going on there?

[Sunny Crittenden]

I just think people get married for the wrong reasons usually. Usually because it's societal pressure more than the fact that they actually should or want to. And nothing is more evident in that belief than the cam world because, like, while the husband's sitting there talking to a cam girl on the computer or on his phone, the wife's sitting there knitting a blanket, oblivious, and he's totally talking dirty, you know, and that happens so much. Or worse, he's spending her money on the cam girl. I've seen that happen a lot too.

[Matt Ford]

And so did you feel like, like something was missing from these men's lives that they were getting from you?

[Sunny Crittenden]

Yeah, probably. Like most of them were middle aged and had kids of their own, younger than me usually, but they just didn't connect with their wives. Like, their wives were grown up women and we were girls, you know, if that makes sense.

[Matt Ford]

That's what they wanted.

[Sunny Crittenden]

Yeah. And it's not that we were young, because not all of us necessarily were. I mean, I was. I was an adult. It's just that we were young at heart and they are also young at heart. And it's hard to find other people who are young at heart at that age without feeling foolish. I think I reminded them of the girl that they had a crush on in high school and they were reliving that feeling. A lot of them,

[Rachel Steele]

and a lot

[Sunny Crittenden]

of them just their wives weren't that girl anymore. She was now, you know, 10, 20 years older. She's who I am now. You know,

[Alice Levine]

I understood exactly what Sunny was talking about. Sure, people are driven to OnlyFans for the sexual taboo, the newness, that titillating secrecy. But there's a handful of subscribers I've chatted with on my page who seem almost nostalgic, like they want to time travel back to a time before they made all those safe and practical decisions. Their secret digital lives with cam girls, or onlyfans creators are about more than just boobs. They're about rediscovering butterflies.

[Matt Ford]

Well, when you put it that way, it almost sounds innocent, though. You gotta imagine the wives in this equation wouldn't see it that way. What surprised me about Sunny's take on this was that she really didn't sound like she was looking down on these married men. And I wonder if it's in part because their attention and their devotion was fun for her, too. Like, Gracie, you seem like you've gotten butterflies yourself doing onlyfans. And it occurs to me that we focus so much on the secret lives of subscribers, but it stands to reason that for a lot of onlyfans creators and cam girls, engaging with these guys is a way to get something that they can't get in real life either. Like, by the time Sunny started streaming actual video on cam horrors in 2005, she had a second child and a husband and all kinds of responsibilities. And streaming, I think, was an escape from that.

[Sunny Crittenden]

I had just moved into my first house, which is still this house that I'm in now. And I. I have my own carport. Like, the room I'm in now is a carport that's been changed into, like, an actual room. So it's like a extra room off the side of my house. And it's got doors, so it's completely contained. And so I would do my camming in here after my kids went to bed with the door closed. And always solo, never with my husband.

[Alice Levine]

God, that sounds so lonely.

[Matt Ford]

Yeah, I think it was. The thing about a virtual life is that it's virtual. How did having this following and this, like, pretty active community of fans and admirers, how did it affect your social life in the real world?

[Sunny Crittenden]

I became agoraphobic and didn't have one. Like, I didn't have a real life friend. Let's put it this no, no. They were all Internet friends. I had one real life friend, maybe two, three in the last 25 years, maybe up until four years ago, like, it was just few and far between. They're all Internet people. My whole world just became the Internet. Like, I only left my house for doctors and dentist appointments. There was. It got to the point where one of my Internet friends, one of the people that has been reading my lifejournal since forever, paid for me to get a subscription to the Toronto Star newspaper so that I would have an excuse to walk to the end of my driveway every day. And I couldn't even do that.

[Matt Ford]

These days, Sunny is less lonely. She has a new partner who has opened up her life, and through that relationship, she's made real friends. Not just Internet friends, but the Internet. And her time as a cam girl remain core to who Sunny is. In fact, a lot of her energy is now spent maintaining what she calls her Cam Girl Museum. It's an online repository of screenshots, photos, blog posts, and other ephemera that might otherwise have been lost to history. Sunny was archiving this stuff in real time, like, literally printing it out off of her computer because she could tell even then that it would one day serve as a valuable record of the early Internet.

[Sunny Crittenden]

I was just grabbing at straws. I was just grabbing things randomly, like, as if the building was on fire.

[Matt Ford]

And so you were like an Internet pioneer, but you were still kind of, like, committed to the tactile world.

[Sunny Crittenden]

I just think that things have to exist in the world. For them to be legitimate or legitimized, I guess, is more to the point, because if. If they only exist online, they can be deleted, they can be lost. I've lost so much stuff over the years, like, nothing digital is permanent. So I started printing things out.

[Matt Ford]

Do you feel like that's true about relationships, too, that they have to be in the real world to be legitimate or legitimized?

[Sunny Crittenden]

I didn't used to think that, but now I do.

[Alice Levine]

Back in Burbank, I asked Rachel Steele if she had ever brought any of her online relationships into the real world.

[Rachel Steele]

I did make, I would say, a handful of friends through being in this business. They're all overseas. One is in Croatia, one is in. There's two in Scotland and one in England and one in Italy.

[Matt Ford]

Did you feel like you got to really know anyone?

[Rachel Steele]

Well, I did get to know someone because he's my partner to this day.

[Matt Ford]

When Rachel met her current partner, she had been on her own for about seven years after her husband Mike passed away. She was living in Maine and liked to interact with her fans on a messaging app called Kik. That's K I K. There was one day when she had put out a mass message to her contacts on there and was going through all the individual replies, looking at the little profile pictures that appeared next to each one.

[Rachel Steele]

I scrolled and scrolled, and I saw his picture, and. And then I clicked on it because I was like, wow, he's like. Something about him just made me stop scrolling. So I clicked on it, and I looked at his picture and enlarged it, and I was like, yeah, he's really cute. I'll say hi.

[Alice Levine]

He was from Istanbul, but lived in New York City. And he had been a fan of Rachel's for a long time. He couldn't believe that his favorite porn star was actually talking to him. And then they kept talking.

[Rachel Steele]

I liked. Because he wasn't, like, too fanboyish, you know? And we ended up meeting. I told him to come to Maine. That's where I was living at the time. He said, I'm in New York. You can come to mine. And I was like, no, I'm not going to New York City to a stranger's house. Come on. You know? And he's like, oh, okay. And I'm like, you can come to Maine. You can come to my turf. I know you know, everyone in this neighborhood knows me, so don't even think you can try anything funny. So he came, and we spent the weekend together, and then we just kept chatting, chatting, chatting, and then started seeing each other, decided we wanted to be exclusive, and then Covid hit, so we moved in together.

[Sunny Crittenden]

Do you have actual children?

[Rachel Steele]

I do.

[Sunny Crittenden]

Okay.

[Matt Ford]

Sons or daughters?

[Rachel Steele]

A boy and a girl, and they are grown up and gone.

[Matt Ford]

What does the son think?

[Rachel Steele]

Um, he's not crazy about.

[Matt Ford]

Turns out Rachel had a secret of her own. Her late husband hadn't wanted their kids to know that they were in the porn business.

[Rachel Steele]

And he's like, when I'm dead, you can tell them. So he passed away, and I waited a year or so and thought about it. And then, you know, my kids, they're older, they're in their 20s, and I'm like, I don't like living a lie. I don't like this. Why are you traveling so much? Where do you go? You know, why are you going here and there and.

[Matt Ford]

Oh, you kept this, like, a total secret?

[Rachel Steele]

Yes.

[Matt Ford]

For until they were in their twenties?

[Rachel Steele]

Yes.

[Matt Ford]

Holy moly.

[Rachel Steele]

My whole family, nobody knew. So he was.

[Matt Ford]

They thought you were just a retired hairstylist.

[Rachel Steele]

They just thought hair sales. I was just like, A little trophy wife. And Mike was just paying for everything and taking care of everything. And Mike was, you know, doing it all, but they didn't know, so. And my daughter, she was funny. She just said, I knew it. I knew you were doing it. Something like that. I knew it.

[Matt Ford]

Woman's intuition. Do they know that your current husband was someone you met as a fan?

[Rachel Steele]

Yes, they do. Yep. Yep. And he's their age.

[Matt Ford]

Oh, he's younger.

[Rachel Steele]

Yes. He's the same age as my kids are.

[Matt Ford]

No kidding.

[Rachel Steele]

Yeah. So there's a little age gap there.

[Matt Ford]

Okay, so he. He does have. He has a. Like, a active fantasy about an older woman. Like he is attracted to.

[Rachel Steele]

He always has. He said ever since he was feeling sexual, he was attracted to older women, so. Yeah. And then he was masturbating to my porn. And when we met and, you know, started seeing each other, it was his little dream come true. And then we've been together for six years. He's still a fan.

[Alice Levine]

Your biggest fan.

[Rachel Steele]

Yeah.

[Alice Levine]

You just described, like, 99% of subscribers. Fantasies.

[Sunny Crittenden]

Yes.

[Rachel Steele]

Truly.

[Matt Ford]

Yeah.

[Rachel Steele]

Yeah, that's true.

[Matt Ford]

So you see, fellas, the dream can come true. What begins as a secret that lives inside your computer can become your actual life and maybe even your actual school life. Anything's possible.

[Alice Levine]

Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying anyone should try to meet and fall in love with a creator. In fact, please don't. But I found something sweet about Rachel and her young hubby. However, not all fantasies have a fairy tale ending.

[Matt Ford]

She was so convincing in the beginning of our supposed relationship that by the

[Sunny Crittenden]

time it got to the where an

[Matt Ford]

item phase I was in, I believed her. And then when I found out she was lying, I was crushed, destroyed. And suddenly you begin to see yourself as a dollar bill, and outside of that, you're nothing. That's next on Only. Fantastic. Listen to Only Fantasy on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Only Fantasy early and ad free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts. Hello, I'm Matt Ford.

[Alice Levine]

And I'm Alice Levine.

[Rachel Steele]

And we're the hosts of British Scandal.

[Alice Levine]

Yes, we are. And our new series starts with a loud, lovable woman from Bermondsey who becomes one of the most famous people in Britain.

[Matt Ford]

This is the story of Jade Gooding,

[Alice Levine]

the reality TV star who built a fortune just by being herself and then

[Matt Ford]

lost everything in one of the most public racism scandals Britain has ever seen.

[Alice Levine]

It's a story of fame and a

[Matt Ford]

change of the conversation around cervical cancer forever.

[Alice Levine]

Follow British scandal wherever you get your podcasts or listen early and at first free on Audible.