Open Circuit: The Demand Stack – Turning Customers into Grid Capacity

Podcast: Open Circuit | Host: Latitude Media
Episode: The demand stack: Turning customers into grid capacity (Partner Content)
Date: March 31, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the evolving world of demand-side resources in modern energy grids, focusing on how utilities can unlock grid capacity by better leveraging customers and their connected devices. Host Stephen Lacy converses with Hannah Bascom, Chief Growth Officer at Uplight, about the shift from compliance-driven efficiency programs to dynamic demand-side strategies that treat customers as assets. The conversation covers the concept of the "demand stack", the market and technology changes fueling this shift, and practical insights from work with utilities like Evergy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Evolution of Demand-Side Management

• Compliance to Market-Driven:
  • Early work in energy efficiency programs was often bureaucratic and compliance-focused, lacking customer incentives and market mechanisms.
  • Quote: “Efficiency has always been the less glamorous part of clean energy... These programs weren't driven by market demand. They were driven by regulatory compliance.” (A, 00:36)
• Shift to Customer-Centric Tech:
  • Devices like smart thermostats (Nest) changed the conversation by introducing products customers truly wanted, making them both energy-saving tools and grid resources.
  • Quote: “For the first time, utilities realized, oh, there's customer demand for these products, besides just the fact that they save energy.” (B, 01:53)

2. The Demand Stack Explained

• Definition:
  • A framework aligning customer programs, utility operations, and planning so DSM (Demand Side Management) programs deliver reliable system value while boosting resilience and controlling costs.
  • Quote: “The demand stack is really a framework for aligning customer programs, utility operations and planning...deliver reliable system value across all hours of the year.” (B, 03:16)
• The Cake Analogy:
  • Base: Efficiency programs (constant, baseline savings).
  • Middle: Rate programs (targeted daily peak hours).
  • Icing: Virtual power plants (VPP) or demand response for extreme or defined events.
  • Quote: “I talk about the demand stack as a cake...base as your energy efficiency programs...rates programs...virtual power plant or demand response...the icing on the cake.” (B, 03:37)

3. Market Pressures: Why Change Now?

• Load Growth & Affordability:
  • Surging demand (AI, electrification) outpaces grid expansion, while affordability pressures mount.
  • Quote: “We all look at the load projections for what AI is driving...load growth certainly outpace our collective ability to keep up. And so there's a time problem and a cost problem...” (B, 06:14)
• Limits to Traditional Solutions:
  • Supply chain constraints, physical limitations, and public resistance make new infrastructure harder and pricier.
  • Regulatory and community actions (rate freezes, demands for VPPs) push utilities toward innovative approaches.
  • Quote: “Communities won't stand for it...they are demanding that utilities look at VPPs, at better grid utilization and kind of alternative approaches.” (B, 07:42)

4. The Evergy Case Study: Demand Stack in Practice

• Baseline & Transformation:
  • Evergy’s Missouri territory started with ~1.4% peak reduction (≈52 MW).
  • Study with Brattle & Uplight identified five strategies: improved forecasting, increased enrollment, better event experience, staggered dispatch, new programs.
  • Impact: Implementing all strategies could boost peak reduction to ~5%, or >50% capacity increase by 2030.
  • Quote: “If you were to implement all of these...between now and 2030 you will see a greater than 50% increase in the capacity...” (B, 10:11)
• Point-of-Sale Enrollment:
  • Automatic program enrollment upon device/EV purchase drives 10x higher participation.
  • Quote: “We see about a 10 times greater adoption rate for customers that are buying a thermostat with pre enrollment...” (B, 11:25)
• Unenrolled Device Leverage:
  • Micro/targeted shifts during emergencies using devices not formally enrolled—a “cake mix” model—simplifies widespread adoption.
• Customer Experience:
  • Predictable capacity dispatch (using AI/ML) creates consistent, less disruptive events for customers.
  • Quote: “We have leveraged AI and a lot of our own ML algorithms...to get a consistent flat result across a four hour window...” (B, 13:22)

5. Harnessing Technology & AI

• Forecasting & Dispatch:
  • AI predicts individual customer/device patterns, enabling precise, tailored demand response.
  • Drives better overall results and less customer inconvenience.
  • Quote: “AI is playing a really big role here...Enables us to better understand and predict what an individual customer or business is going to do in an event.” (B, 14:43)
• Distributed Device Networks:
  • The aggregation of numerous small resources (smart thermostats, batteries, EV chargers) across homes and businesses is transformative.
  • Quote: “It is bringing together all of the different devices in people's homes and businesses to equate to a very big resource.” (B, 17:36)

6. The Role of Utilities and Regulators

• Cultural & Structural Change:
  • Utilities with strong leadership, innovative culture, and supportive regulation move faster with demand stack strategies.
  • Quote: “It is a combination always of the cultural attributes, the leadership at that utility and the willingness to do new things. And also...regulatory carrots or sticks.” (B, 24:21)
• Integrated Resource Planning:
  • Utilities often already possess many demand-side tools but need to unify and amplify them.
  • Rates (time-of-use, dynamic pricing) are still underutilized for peak flexibility.
  • Regulators and legislators increasingly provide incentives and mandates for demand-side adoption.
  • Quote: “Utilities already have a lot of these tools in their back pocket today that they just need to consider as one unifying resource.” (B, 19:06)

7. Risks of Not Embracing the Demand Stack

• Higher Costs & Lost Opportunity:
  • Failure to adopt these strategies leads directly to more expensive and potentially inefficient infrastructure investments.
  • Neglecting to empower customers means missing out on improved relationships and bill savings.
  • Quote: "If you're not taking advantage of the demand stack, things are just going to be more expensive...utilities that do this well will also see the benefit of actual relationships with their customers..." (B, 25:26)

8. What’s Different & Exciting Today?

• From Compliance to Demand-Driven Innovation:
  • The era is no longer defined by checkbox compliance; it's driven by customer demand and necessity (rising DER adoption, climate, affordability pressures).
  • Quote: “I am excited to be in a world that is no longer about compliance...And now it is truly driven by market demand and also by necessity...” (B, 27:05)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Being Called an OG of Climate Tech

  • “Somebody the other day called me OG of the climate tech world, which was both flattering and seemed a little wild.” (B, 00:23)

• Necessity of Creative Solutions

  • “Necessity is the mother of invention. And I think that that is definitely true...utilities are really understanding that they need to be creative and cost effective...” (B, 21:48)

• Regulatory Tension & Efficiency's Renaissance

  • “I am hopeful that we will see a resurgence in efficiency. I think that there is definitely tension in many states because it's also an adder on people's bills...But I think it's the sort of pennywise pound foolish approach to take.” (B, 22:57)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp (MM:SS) | |------------------------------------------------------|----------------------| | Hannah Bascom’s origin in clean energy | 00:02 – 00:36 | | Shift to customer-centric approaches at Nest | 01:21 – 02:05 | | AI and electrification as drivers of load growth | 02:32 – 03:00 | | The demand stack analogy and definition | 03:00 – 04:36 | | Limits of traditional grid expansion | 06:14 – 07:42 | | Evergy case study: demand stack in practice | 09:46 – 11:06 | | Point-of-sale enrollment and customer participation | 11:06 – 13:07 | | Predictable dispatch using AI/ML | 13:22 – 14:33 | | Coordinating device fleets for grid benefits | 17:11 – 18:38 | | Tips for utilities in integrating demand stack | 19:06 – 21:18 | | Regulatory culture and fast adopters | 24:21 – 25:14 | | Risks of not acting | 25:14 – 26:40 | | Final thoughts: the excitement of a new era | 27:05 – 27:31 |

Takeaways for Non-Listeners

• The grid is undergoing a transformation, and customers—their devices and behaviors—are increasingly seen as scalable, flexible resources, not just passive consumers.
• Success isn’t just about more infrastructure; it’s about smarter, more integrated use of what’s already there, enabled by modern tech, automation, and innovative business models.
• The demand stack offers a practical roadmap for utilities to unify efficiency, pricing, and demand response, unlocking new capacity and saving costs.
• AI, data analytics, and next-gen customer engagement tools are central to making the demand stack a real, reliable “resource.”
• Utilities stuck in compliance or siloed thinking risk higher costs, lost customer trust, and delayed progress.
• For those in utilities, regulation, or tech, this episode is an accessible blend of strategic, technical, and cultural insights about the future of energy.