Podcast Summary: Open Circuit – "The Great Divergence: Can the Grid Catch Up to Transportation Innovation?"

Episode Details:

• Title: The Great Divergence: Can the Grid Catch Up to Transportation Innovation?
• Host/Author: Latitude Media
• Release Date: July 29, 2025
• Description: Devram Jalal, Chief Flexibility and Marketing Officer at Kraken, discusses with Stephen Lacy the contrasting innovation trajectories of the electric grid and the transportation sector, exploring whether the grid can match the rapid advancements seen in transportation.

Introduction to the Divergence

The episode opens with a historical comparison between the development of the electric grid and the transportation infrastructure. Devram Jalal highlights the structural similarities between the two systems in the late 1800s, noting their centralized hubs connected by expansive networks:

Devram Jalal [01:23]: "When I take a step back and look at a little bit holistically, structurally they look very similar in those days."

However, over time, transportation evolved into a decentralized and intelligent system, leveraging data and dynamic pricing to enhance efficiency and user experience, whereas the electric grid remained largely centralized and less responsive to consumer needs.

Historical Context and Evolution

Centralization vs. Decentralization:

• Narrator [01:03]: Explains the early similarities in the development of power plants and transportation hubs.
• Devram Jalal [01:40]: Observes that while both started similarly, transportation rapidly became decentralized and data-driven.

Digital Transformation in Transportation: Transportation benefitted significantly from digital innovations:

Devram Jalal [02:18]: "As the world became more digitally connected, new services were built to manage congestion and the driver experience."

Technologies such as telemetry, dynamic routing, and user-generated content (e.g., Google Maps, Uber) revolutionized how transportation systems operate and interact with consumers.

In contrast, the electric grid did not experience a similar transformation, remaining focused on the dispatchability of large power plants rather than enhancing consumer engagement or distribution system flexibility.

Current Innovations in the Electric Grid

Kraken's Role in Grid Modernization: Devram Jalal discusses Kraken's mission to utilize technology to accelerate the energy transition by maximizing the efficiency of existing infrastructure and consumer-owned devices:

Devram Jalal [00:17]: "At Kraken, we're in the business of using technology to accelerate the energy transition."

Consumer Engagement and Market Structures: The conversation emphasizes the importance of changing market structures to incentivize consumer participation:

Devram Jalal [04:26]: "We need to work closely with regulators and we've been doing so to open up the possibility to engage consumers with the energy system."

Case Studies Demonstrating Success:

1. Octopus Energy Group Wind Turbines:

   • Kraken purchased wind turbines in rural areas and offered discounts to consumers based on turbine performance.
   • Devram Jalal [05:05]: "We opened up the proposition to the whole of the island and now we've repeated it in Germany and other places."
   • Resulted in over 35,000 applications in the UK, demonstrating strong consumer interest and behavioral change.

2. Saving Sessions Program:

   • Collaborated with UK regulators to reduce electricity demand during expensive winter periods.
   • Devram Jalal [07:10]: "We had million and a half customers engaging and earning about 15 million pounds."
   • Highlighted consumers' willingness to participate in demand response programs when properly incentivized.

Advancements in Consumer Flexibility

Automated Demand Response: Moving beyond behavioral responses, Kraken developed systems where consumers grant automation control over their devices:

Devram Jalal [08:18]: "We've seen some incredible results that consumers are willing to participate."

Electric Vehicle (EV) Integration:

• Devram Jalal [09:00]: Describes a tariff allowing utilities to control EV charging within predefined parameters set by consumers.
• Resulted in rapid adoption, growing from 811 Tesla drivers to over 300,000 customers with high satisfaction and low churn rates.

Benefits of Automated Flexibility:

• Devram Jalal [10:15]: "That's absolutely nirvana. It's what I call the self automated, self healing system."
• Enables real-time grid management, enhances reliability, and reduces the need for costly infrastructure upgrades.

Cultural and Operational Shifts in Utilities

Changing Perceptions of Ratepayers: Utilities are increasingly viewing consumers as active participants rather than passive electricity off-takers:

Devram Jalal [12:02]: "There are some utilities with a burning platform who need to do something... others want to be leaders."

Software Integration Challenges: Utilities often struggle with disparate software systems hindering innovation:

Devram Jalal [17:15]: "The hodgepodge of technology solutions at utilities... slows the move and innovation."

Kraken’s Unified Platform Solution: Kraken addresses these challenges by consolidating multiple systems into a single platform, enhancing data visibility and operational efficiency:

Devram Jalal [19:20]: "When customers implement a Kraken solution, we typically retire over a dozen systems and converge everything in a single one."

This unification facilitates better customer service, employee satisfaction, and overall grid management.

The Role of Artificial Intelligence in Grid Management

AI-Augmented Communication: Kraken utilizes large language models to enhance customer interactions:

Devram Jalal [21:53]: "AI enabled communications is achieving 20% higher customer satisfaction ratings because simply because it's quicker, it's comprehensive, it's accurate and it's also action driven."

Predictive Analytics for Grid Optimization: Machine learning algorithms forecast consumer behavior with over 90% accuracy, enabling precise grid management:

Devram Jalal [24:30]: "We have an algorithm that helps us forecast their behavior... with over 90% accuracy."

Enhanced Forecasting Capabilities: AI assists in balancing the grid by predicting and adapting to real-time conditions, ensuring efficient energy distribution:

Devram Jalal [25:10]: "That's an algorithm that's been running for three years now and constantly improving its capability."

Future Perspectives: Convergence of Electricity and Transportation Systems

Impact of Electric Vehicles: EVs are a driving force in bridging the innovation gap between transportation and the electric grid:

Devram Jalal [26:19]: "Electric vehicles are actually forcing us to converge them."

Grid-Aware Optimization: Kraken aims to build a system that leverages real-time data from various sources to optimize grid performance similarly to transportation systems:

Devram Jalal [26:30]: "By monitoring generation... and AI, now the sudden prevalence of large language models... will give us the tools to build a system that's at least as good as transportation works today, but hopefully significantly better."

This convergence promises a more responsive, efficient, and consumer-centric electric grid.

Conclusion

The podcast episode "The Great Divergence: Can the Grid Catch Up to Transportation Innovation?" provides an in-depth analysis of the contrasting evolution of the electric grid and transportation systems. Through the insights shared by Devram Jalal and Stephen Lacy, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the technological, cultural, and operational shifts necessary for the electric grid to match the innovation pace of transportation. With Kraken's integrated solutions and AI-driven strategies, the future points towards a more flexible, efficient, and consumer-oriented energy system.

Notable Quotes:

• Devram Jalal [04:26]: "We need to work closely with regulators and we've been doing so to open up the possibility to engage consumers with the energy system."
• Devram Jalal [08:18]: "We've seen some incredible results that consumers are willing to participate."
• Devram Jalal [12:02]: "There are some utilities with a burning platform who need to do something... others want to be leaders."
• Devram Jalal [21:53]: "AI enabled communications is achieving 20% higher customer satisfaction ratings because simply because it's quicker, it's comprehensive, it's accurate and it's also action driven."

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the podcast episode, highlighting the key discussions on the divergence between transportation and electric grid innovations, the role of consumer engagement, the integration of AI, and the future prospects of grid modernization.