Podcast Summary: Open Circuit – "The Grid Resilience Dilemma"

Date: November 14, 2025
Host: Stephen Lacy (Latitude Media), with co-hosts Katherine Hamilton and Jigar Shah
Guest: Julia Hamm, Partner at the Ad Hoc Group

Episode Overview

This episode explores the complex challenge utilities face in investing for grid resilience amid rising threats from extreme weather, regulatory and affordability pressures, and rapid technological change. The discussion investigates how much resilience is enough, who decides what gets funded, and how new technologies and market entrants are changing the landscape. Special guest Julia Hamm joins to dive deep into these issues and preview the upcoming Power Resilience Forum in Houston.

Main Discussion Topics & Insights

1. The Resilience Dilemma: Pressures on Utilities

Timestamps: 03:37–09:04

• Utilities are under immense strain from extreme weather (storms, wildfires, flooding, heat) while also facing demands for affordable rates.
• The Edison Electric Institute (EEI) estimates utilities plan ~$1 trillion in grid investment by 2030.
• Only about a quarter of this is specifically earmarked for resilience (adaptation, hardening, disaster recovery).

Julia Hamm [09:04]:

"In 2024, EEI members spent about $30 billion on adaptation, hardening and resilience. If we anticipate that increasing, maybe a quarter of that trillion is going to resilience by 2030."

2. Reliability vs Resilience: Definitions & Cost Recovery

Timestamps: 10:09–12:47

• Reliability concerns outage frequency and duration, while resilience is about how quickly the grid recovers after disruptions.
• Regulatory frameworks for funding these are very different; resilience may include longer-term, capital-heavy investments with different cost recovery models.

Katherine Hamilton [10:24]:

"We need to define resilience versus reliability, because those mean very different things for utilities and how costs are recovered."

3. Historic Underinvestment & Catch-up

Timestamps: 12:47–13:24

• Underinvestment, especially in transmission and distribution (T&D), has left grids vulnerable.
• Recent surges in load growth (after decades of flat or declining demand) compound the challenge—utilities must both modernize and catch up.

4. Trust Gaps & Utility Incentives

Timestamps: 13:41–17:21

• There’s a breakdown in trust between utilities, regulators, and customers.
• Utilities often “lump" multiple costs under broad justifications (e.g., wildfire), while innovative or affordable options from startups go unexplored.
• Preventive approaches (like early wildfire detection) may not align with utility business incentives.

Jigar Shah [14:41]:

"The utility business model doesn’t really benefit from prevention. ... Are utilities places that embrace innovation? Of course they don’t."

5. Evolving Technology & The Role of Startups

Timestamps: 17:30–21:46

• Despite a reputation for slow adoption, some utilities are starting to move faster when enterprise risk is acute (wildfires especially).
• AI, remote sensing, and microgrids are gaining traction, but scaling from pilot to rollout remains an unsolved problem.

Julia Hamm [26:40]:

"When there’s an actual threat to the utility and its customers...they can move fast and will move fast. We've seen companies go to multi-million dollar contracts within a year."

6. The Pace of Change & The "Pilot Trap"

Timestamps: 21:46–26:37

• Utilities often get stuck in long cycles of pilots, and there's frustration from startups and VCs about the difficulty scaling innovative solutions.
• Pace is increasing for some threat areas (wildfire), but structural inertia is still a significant barrier.

7. Data, Data, Data — From Blind Spots to Action

Timestamps: 19:59–32:20, 41:27–43:11, 48:44–50:13

• Utilities are collecting more data than ever (e.g., drones, sensors), but struggle to translate it into actionable resilience strategies.
• Legacy IT and limited analytics hinder the value extracted from investments (e.g., AMI data, smart meters).

Julia Hamm [32:30]:

"For a long time, there’s a lot that utilities didn’t know about their system...now we have much better data that lets utilities make specific, value-driven investments."

8. Regulatory Friction & Case Study: CenterPoint (Houston)

Timestamps: 35:36–39:56

• CenterPoint proposed a $5.75 billion resilience plan for Houston, involving hardened infrastructure and digitization.
• Regulators slashed the budget (down to $2.7B), reflecting skepticism about utility estimates and a demand for more data-driven justification.
• CenterPoint’s adoption of new tech and collaboration with startups has made it a national case study, particularly after trust was deeply eroded by past failures.
• Regulators are demanding far more technical, data-driven support for investments in an era of changing threats.

Julia Hamm [36:09]:
"It’s back to this data thing—the commission didn’t feel they had all the support they needed to justify those investments."

9. Distributed Energy and “Beyond Utility Walls”

Timestamps: 43:11–44:42

• DERs (distributed energy resources) and customer-sited solar/storage are playing a crucial role, especially in regions like ERCOT (Texas).
• The solution set must go beyond utility-owned or utility-operated assets.

Katherine Hamilton [43:11]:
"What we're doing is limiting ourselves to what the utilities are doing, and that just isn't the whole picture."

10. The Emerging “Resilience Tech” Market

Timestamps: 44:42–48:44

• Startups are proliferating; Julia’s group tracks 100+ companies across wildfire tech, asset/vegetation management, sensors, advanced weather modeling, etc.
• There's a rapid evolution from niche (e.g., wildfire-only) to broader multi-hazard solutions.
• Data overload and lack of utility capacity to process and act on data are recurring concerns.

11. Affordability, Energy Burden, and Political Backdrop

Timestamps: 51:45–55:40

• Rate hikes are moving energy affordability (“energy burden”) to the center of political debate.
• Utilities’ massive capex plans are colliding with stagnant or declining customer ability to pay.
• There’s concern that “resiliency” spending will be first on the chopping block as affordability pressures intensify.

Jigar Shah [51:45]:

"We have one in five households now behind on an energy bill. ... We are in very serious REDLINE territory now on affordability and energy burden."

12. Is This a Turning Point for Utility–Startup Collaboration?

Timestamps: 57:18–59:35

• While wildfires have forced more rapid utility action with startups, scaling remains challenging—it's still "early days" for the resilience tech sector.
• Some hope that as adaptation (rather than mitigation alone) becomes essential, more investment and market traction will follow.

Julia Hamm [57:32]:

"It does, absolutely, feel different when we're talking about wildfire, because there's massive liability risk to utilities. ... But it's early days in the resilience tech space."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jigar Shah [05:06]:
  "I'm just glad that Gates is off the scene. Like, he has been nothing but trouble since 07."

• Katherine Hamilton [18:02]:
  "Instead of putting a billion dollars into undergrounding ... maybe use that same billion to put a microgrid at every single fire station in California."

• Julia Hamm [26:37]:
  "When we're talking about resilience issues, it doesn't move as fast as it needs to move ... there is a level of urgency when there's enterprise risk."

• Jigar Shah [30:32]:
  "We are in this breakdown of trust ... utilities have cried wolf a few times in the past and made a lot of money for shareholders by crying wolf."

Important Segment Timestamps

• Trillion-dollar investments & spending breakdown: 09:04
• Reliability vs. resilience, rate recovery: 10:24
• Utility incentive critique & trust breakdown: 14:41
• Pilot trap & slow innovation: 23:23, 26:25
• Pace of adoption in wildfire risk areas: 26:40
• Data-driven, surgical investments: 32:20, 41:27, 48:44
• CenterPoint case study (Houston): 35:36
• Market for resilience technologies and taxonomy: 44:42
• Utilities' struggle to operationalize new data: 48:44–50:13
• Affordability/energy burden political implications: 51:45, 53:24

Conclusion: What’s At Stake & Why This Matters

The grid resilience dilemma has never been more acute. Billions in potential spending, breakthrough technology, and mounting pressure from regulators, politicians, and the public are converging—yet the industry is hampered by historic mistrust, data management challenges, and market friction in adopting new solutions. As extreme weather accelerates and rates rise, all sides recognize the need for honest, data-driven planning and collaboration—making forums like the Power Resilience event more vital than ever.

Julia Hamm [59:47]:

“We’re pulling together all the right stakeholders to have the conversation that will ultimately influence what resilience looks like on our system in the future.”

For anyone interested in the future of the energy grid—from regulators and policymakers to technologists and community advocates—this episode offers a timely, pointed, and often candid look at the trade-offs, friction points, and hope for a more resilient, reliable, and equitable electric system.