The Analog Boom – Watch Sales Surge to Start 2026 – Episode 87

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Openwork: Inside the Watch Industry

Episode 87 – The Analog Boom: Watch Sales Surge to Start 2026
Hosts: Asher Rapkin & Gabe Reilly (Collective Horology)
Date: June 29, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the unprecedented resurgence in analog watch sales in 2026, positioning watches as a core part of a broader cultural shift towards analog experiences and physical ownership. Hosts Asher Rapkin and Gabe Reilly discuss the data behind the boom, the cultural roots fueling it, why this moment differs from previous surges, and what it means for brands, collectors, and the wider watch industry. Through an engaging, witty conversation, they connect trends in watches, vinyl, books, film, and collectibles, ultimately reflecting on analog’s renewed relevance in an increasingly digital world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bamford and the Importance of Creative Collaboration (01:08 – 03:53)

• Collective Horology welcomes Bamford London to their lineup.
  • Asher recounts early support from George Bamford, the “OG of modern collaborative watches,” highlighting Bamford’s role in elevating independent design and materials in the space.
  • “It’s awesome when people you admire, who take creative risk … don’t pull the ladder up behind them, but instead welcome you into that space.” – Asher (01:49)
• Bamford’s unique approach blends familiar styles (divers, monopushers, GMTs) with original colorways and innovative materials (steel, titanium, forged carbon, ceramic) yet steers clear of simply imitating icons like the Submariner.
  • “You look at it, you’re like, oh, that’s a dive watch. But it doesn’t look like it’s aping a Submariner.” – Gabe (03:09)

2. The Rise of Analog Culture & Tangible Ownership (04:32 – 12:21)

• Watches are experiencing a demand boom as part of a cultural shift toward analog experiences and tangible things amid digital fatigue.
• US retail watch sales surged nearly 30% in early 2026, despite misleading negative headlines on Swiss exports. (06:40)
• This “analog boom” is broader than just Gen Z—vinyl records, books, comics, and other physical collectibles are all seeing renewed interest.
  • “Watches are very much a part of that… just like sales of other analog things are booming, sales of watches in the U.S… are booming now in this moment.” – Gabe (06:33)
• Analogs’ appeal: physical ownership, the ability to inscribe history, give gifts, and escape the pitfalls of DRM and planned obsolescence associated with digital goods.
  • “What people began to realize over time was that they were moving away from this idea of owning something…” – Asher (10:22)
  • “In a sense, you are renting your watch if you own something like an Apple Watch that has planned obsolescence…” – Gabe (12:29)

3. Ownership, Ritual, and Emotional Fulfillment (12:42 – 16:03)

• The pleasure of owning analog objects—watches, vinyl, comics—is tied to tangible, personalized joys, not just utility.
  • “There’s also a thrill to just owning the vinyl, owning the record. It’s an artist I love. It’s a moment in time. … I am so fulfilled by that and enriched by it.” – Gabe (15:19)
• Rituals (listening to vinyl, wearing select watches) and objects’ histories offer a richer, more memorable connection than streaming or purely digital use.

4. Pendulum Swings: From Digital Fatigue Back to Analog (16:14 – 18:13)

• The analog comeback is both a reaction to digital ubiquity and a result of generational nostalgia cycles.
• Gen Z is nostalgic for early 2000s and the late 90s, while Gen X empties nesters with disposable income are revisiting their own youth through analog experiences.

5. Industry Trends: Neo-Vintage, Indie Brands, and Patience (26:17 – 29:32)

• Three main watch segments are booming:
  1. Neo-vintage (late 90s/early 2000s nostalgia)
  2. Independent brands
  3. $50,000+ watches driven by handwork and exclusivity
• Patience is fundamental: analog objects and indie watches often require long waits, adding to their appeal and value.
  • “Patience is such an integral component of analog culture… There is an immediacy that we’ve seen in our culture and also in the watch industry that is expected.” – Asher (26:17)
• The growth is more organic and sustainable compared to the COVID-era boom, which was driven by speculation and hype around a narrow range of references.

6. The Broader Analog Renaissance: Cameras, Synths, and Choice (19:57 – 23:05)

• Other “dead” or “obsolete” product categories (film cameras, analog synths, disposable cameras) are making strong comebacks thanks to the intentionality and experience they require.
  • “Analog synths are starting to come back… [Teenage Engineering] broke $46 million in gross revenue.” – Asher (21:41, 23:04)
• Demand is driven by the experiential and tactile, not mere nostalgia.

7. Automating Collecting vs. Human Discovery (32:14 – 35:33)

• Rhetorical question posed: If technology automates collecting (e.g., bots that scrape best prices and deals), does it strip the journey of its reward?
  • “If you’re invested as a collector and you’re automating the experience of collecting… it’s like letting your fantasy league run on autopilot.” – Asher (34:30)
• Real-world connection (e.g., watch fairs, open houses) and personal discovery still matter deeply.

8. The Impact on Different Watch Categories (35:33 – 40:39)

• Not all categories benefit equally:
  • The analog boom is a tailwind for mechanical, hand-crafted, and nostalgic pieces.
  • Smartwatches/AI agents, overly digital products, and “modern” pieces not rooted in nostalgia may temporarily lose favor.
  • However, the abundance of choice means retro, “neo-vintage,” and modern can all coexist.

9. Trends: Vintage, Neo-Vintage, and the Future of Watch Design (42:38 – 47:37)

• The next cycle may bring reissues of neo-vintage pieces (late 90s/early 2000s), not just 60s throwbacks (i.e., Tag Heuer Link, Breitling, etc.).
  • “Are we going to start to see… neo-vintage re-releases?” – Gabe (43:43)
• The hosts believe the market will diversify further—more choices, more parallel trends, not a return to monolithic fads.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Fundamental Value in Analog:
  “What I think is fascinating about this is that we’re getting back to this idea of ownership. And that’s a lot of what analog culture [is about].” – Asher (11:40)

• On the Emotional Power of Tangible Objects:
  “…there’s also a thrill to just owning the vinyl, … something I can physically have and hold. …even if I just pick them up and hold them, …I am so fulfilled by that and enriched by it.” – Gabe (15:19)

• On The Cultural Pendulum Swing:
  “Twenty years ago, a thousand songs in your pocket seems really cool. Twenty years later, you know, a collection of vinyl seems cool.” – Gabe (23:47)

• On the Modern Collector’s Dilemma:
  “…essentially, in one way or another, that’s what these people are doing… they’re automating the experience of collecting. To me, that poses a really fascinating rhetorical question.” – Asher (32:58)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Bamford and Collaborative Watches: 01:08–04:08
• The “Analog Boom” Sales Data: 06:33–07:33
• Ownership, DRM, and Tangibility: 10:19–12:21
• Rituals and Fulfillment from Analog Objects: 15:03–16:03
• Nostalgia Cycles and Cross-Generational Appeal: 18:13–20:16
• Neo-Vintage/Indie Brands Boom: 26:17–29:32
• Automation vs. Collector’s Experience: 32:14–35:33
• Digital vs. Analog Watch Industry Impact: 35:33–40:39
• Trends in Neo-Vintage, Shaped, and Nostalgia Watches: 42:38–47:37

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The Episode’s Takeaway:

The “analog boom” is not just a market blip, but a deep, multisector culture shift, as both nostalgia and a desire for tangible ownership drive not only watch sales but the wider landscape of collectibles and analog experiences. The hosts argue this boom differs from past manias in its breadth, emotional grounding, and sustainability. While trends will evolve, the result is a vibrant, multifaceted market with more options, experiences, and meaningful connections—analog has reclaimed its place, not by replacing digital, but by offering authentic choice in a digital world.

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Transcript

[A]

How many times have we gotten a call from someone who's like, hey, do you have this watch in stock? And we're like, no, bro. Like, we're like, that's too. It's sold out two years. Hang up, call the next year. Do you have this one in stock?

[B]

It's like, maybe this is the pot calling the kettle black. You love buying in stock watches. This is open work. A look inside the watch industry, A podcast from Collective Horology. And I'm Gabe Riley, co founder of Collective.

[A]

And I'm Asher Rapkin, who has to sit across from you. Collective Horology is an independent watch retailer based in Ventura, California. We carry a wide range of independent brands, including Garrick Fears, Bamford, London and more. To learn more about us and check out our available inventory, visit collective horology.com

[B]

see what I did there with the intro?

[A]

Yeah. And I want to talk about Bamford for a second.

[B]

Well, no. What about Garrick and Fear? They're all British.

[A]

I see. Did you.

[B]

Did you get that? I want to talk about. Now you're playing coy. You didn't get it. But okay, fine. I enjoyed that.

[A]

Really pay attention to.

[B]

This is why you have to read the script. I do clever things like this.

[A]

So when we roll back the clock to 2021. 2020. When Collective was focused very heavily on making collaborative watches, there were a few figures that really loomed large in that. And one of those is what I would definitely consider the OG of modern collaborative watches. The one and only George Bamford. And like anyone who gets started in a new space, it can be very daunting because, of course, you're trying to build something yourself, but you have no credibility yet.

[B]

Yeah. To say, to be candid, we had no credibility.

[A]

We had no credibility. But George was one of the first folks that I would say, no pun intended, gave us the time of day. And that was really exciting because it's awesome when people who you admire, who take creative risk, who make their own thing, don't pull the ladder up behind them, but instead welcome you into that space. Now, George, in addition to making collaborative watches, as he's done the Gerard Perregaux with Zenith with a multitude of other makers, G Shock, of course, also has his own line of watches, and we've kept our eyes on those over the years. Have been a couple of pieces that I'd say, you know, kind of spoke to us individually, but it was about a year ago when we were in Geneva and we got to meet with a member of the team and he showed us a couple of watches that we just thought were, to put it mildly, really neat. Not least of which being the D300 ceramic divers. The watches which are now available on collectorprology.com along with several other models from Bamford. And I think what I like about these pieces and you know what I would encourage folks to take for them, is these are watches that both walk a line of being incredibly recognizable. They feel like what they are. You know, the monopushers, the GMTs, the of course the divers all feel like they walk away a very well trodden path. You know, you can recognize these at as what they are, divers as monopusher tool watches. You can recognize the unique materials, et cetera, but the colorway and don't look

[B]

derivative of older watches.

[A]

That's the thing.

[B]

Take the D300, the ceramic diver. You look at it, you're like, oh, that's a dive watch. But it doesn't look like it's aping a submariner.

[A]

That's exactly right. So to all of that, so to that point, I think that Bamford watches offer an incredible point of view on some very, very well known styles of watchmaking at a profoundly accessible price that also fits into this really excellent landscape that's developing and has been developing over the last decade plus in England of English design and English watchmaking. So we are extraordinarily proud to welcome Bamford London to the collective line card. And we encourage you to take a look yourself too.

[B]

Yeah, and I'd say it's worth taking a look. Everyone can kind of close their eyes and imagine a George Bamford design. What I am just floored by having taken these watches and added them all to the website, photographed them, done some video with them, is the use of materials.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So of course there are steel watches, titanium watch, there's titanium, there's forged carbon, there's ceramic. And so I think you get this really interesting melding of not just watches that really feel comfortable in their own skin from a design perspective and are clearly, you know, clearly marked by George's hands in terms of design. Yep. But are using really interesting and unusual materials and having fun with all of it. Having fun with design, having fun with color, having fun with material. There's just a lot on offer there and we're thrilled to have them. So check them out. Bamford London, watchesollectiveherology.com you know, and George has a very forward looking way of doing things, talking about things like forged carbon and ceramic and his own kind of design language and Watches that don't look like anything else, but that's almost kind of antithetical in some ways to what's, what's going on in, in not just the watch world and in culture more generally, which is what we're going to talk about today. And that's the rise of analog culture. Now this has been documented pretty widely as this cultural phenomenon that's happening now, which is this idea and it's really being pegged to Gen Z, but I think it's much bigger than Gen Z. But there's this sort of zeitgeist and there's this moment where, where in culture more broadly we're moving from things that are digital in their nature and looking for and seeking some refuge and solace and showing interest again in things that are inherently analog and physical. And we'll talk about that in a second. But watches are very much a part of that. And just like the sales of other analog things are booming, sales of watches in the US in particular are booming now in this moment. So there have been some headlines recently and you know, it's like the blood in the streets always makes the headlines. There have been some headlines about how exports from Switzerland to the US have fallen and plummeted, dropped off a cliff. But we've talked a lot about that. There's this sort of bullwhip effect happening with exports of watches from Switzerland to the US driven by tariffs and trade policy where a lot of the exp were pulled forward in anticipation of higher tariffs or you know, or maybe even delayed until some higher tariff rates came off and a lower tariff rate went into effect. So forget about the export data. When you look at the retail sales numbers is actually pretty staggering. And so Watch Pro reported on this pretty recently, which is US sales. US watch sales jumped nearly 30% so 29.7% in the first five months of 2020. So this is based on reported sales data from retailers themselves. So this is not sell in, this is sell through data reported by watch retailers.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

So needless to say, watches are booming and we've talked a great deal about what's booming in the market. Some of the mid range and sort of more noted luxury brands are doing particularly well. Cartier, not surprising. Breitling's also doing well. IWC, Omega or Omega are doing well. Watch watches, over $59,000 are booming. We've talked a great deal about that $50,000 and up segment of the watch market, which is really driving the profitability of the market overall and driving the growth overall. The market that Continues to happen. So we're in this moment now where forget about exports from Switzerland to the US the watches that are actually being sold, what's actually happening at retail and we are seeing this in our own business. It's June of 26 and we've already. June isn't even over and we've already had our biggest sales month ever. Watches are doing extremely well in this climate. And when you click out and you look at the broader culture, I think it makes a lot of sense. Now we've seen strong periods of watch sales before and Covid was certainly a great example of that. But the drivers of that demand around Covid were fundamentally different. There was a lot of speculation, there was a lot of focus on, on certain references in particular and a certain kind of watch. Here what we're seeing is something more broad based and where there is strength, it's focused on particular segments of the, of the watch industry that aren't the usual suspects. We'll talk about that. And it's happening in this broader Coltech context where analog things and watches are very much an analog thing. Particularly the kinds of watches we're talking about here. Analog things are absolutely booming. So vinyl records, let's take vinyl records as an example. Another anachronistic technology just like watches themselves. Who needs anal. Who needs vinyl records in, in the 21st century? Well, vinyl record sales are at an all time record in the digital age. So obviously more vinyl records were sold in the 1970s and maybe even the 1980s where vinyl was kind of the, the coin of the realm when it came to, came to audio, when it came to music. But right now, Vinyl, okay, in 2025, vinyl is over a billion dollar industry just in the United States. The last time vinyl was a billion dollar industry was in the 1980s.

[A]

Yeah, it's, it's, you know, if we look at this from a business standpoint, I kind of think about vinyl the same way that I think about traditional paper books also booming. Part of the reason why is when there was this big push around the time of the iPhone and you know, this digital revolution where we were essentially downsizing all of our physical artistic properties like you know, books and music and film and things like that into digital. 5.

[B]

Remember, a thousand songs in your pocket seemed great at the time.

[A]

It is great. But I think the, I think what people began to realize over time was that they were moving away from this idea of owning something and having that as, as an object that can be reused, can be given, can be gifted, can be shared and can carry its own, its own story. Right? I mean, think about, think about books that have been inscribed. You know, like I have a, I have a book that I bought in when I was 17 years old. It's a 150-year-old copy of Shakespeare's sonnets that's been inscribed three times to various different people that owned it. Like that's something that can only happen in a physical format. And I think over time we saw why that's problematic. Right? I mean, there was the. If everyone, for those who are old enough to remember when everyone got force fed a U2 album by Apple or which was sort of innocuous but irritating, versus some of the more insidious stuff,

[B]

like how is being force fed anything from you? You too irritating?

[A]

Well, I think people were just like, I didn't buy this. It's on, it's on my devices. Versus the more.

[B]

Remember, David Byrne had some like, music that was like, packaged up with like Windows, like one version.

[A]

I don't remember that. But, but, but, but I bring this up to also say that there's a dark side to that. Right. Where we've seen Amazon, for example, edit books that you may already have. And there's a real sort of big brothery horrifying component to that.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

Oh, well, if you buy a book from Amazon, you don't actually own it. The DRM on it basically ensures that that belongs to Amazon and you've bought a license to it and they can update, so to speak, that content. In fairness to them, this has happened once or twice. This is not like a regular practice, but the fact that it's happened at all demonstrates, I think, a potential for why a lot of folks feel nervous about DRM oriented content. Without getting off on that, though, from a business standpoint, I think what's fascinating about this is that we're getting back to this idea of ownership. And that's a lot of what Analog culture.

[B]

Yeah. I had been renting all my watches for years. Now I finally own them.

[A]

Well, I think watches in this particular case are the, you know, are the result of a larger trend. Not the, not the, not the core element of it, but this, in a

[B]

sense, you are renting your watch. If you own something like an Apple watch that has planned obsolescence, it will literally only function and be supported from a software standpoint for a certain amount of time. And you need to get good with that.

[A]

That's completely true. So I bring all this up just to say that, like analog culture, I think a lot of people kind of like. And I'm sure this is true as well. Like if you've gone to a record store, like, you know, there is the image sometimes of like comic book store guy from the Simpsons, you know who's. And it's just like a. Comics being another really good example.

[B]

Comics are also booming. Baseball, basketball, cars, all sorts of collectibles are booming right now.

[A]

But I do think ownership is a really, an ownership that doesn't require you to constantly give up something of yourself as digital rights management does. And anyone who for example, owns an Xbox or a PlayStation or a Nintendo that has been forced to to log online to re authenticate the DRM of their games probably also have some degree of nostalgia for being able to just play Zelda and not have to worry about it.

[B]

So your wife loves Zelda?

[A]

My wife does love Zelda. So all of this together I think sets a stage for why we might be seeing a significant pivot away from what was the very high profit, low consumer power stage of digital rights management and digital media.

[B]

Yeah. You want some interesting facts on vinyl that will sort of blow your mind. Mind. And I think you actually fit into a number of the things you're. You're talking about here. So I'm gonna give you some of these statistics on, on vinyl. So vinyl outsells CDs. Now. I mean that makes sense. That makes sense. But let that, let that land. Okay, so according to this survey, it's for. It was published in CNN. Nearly 60% of Gen Z says that they own vinyl, which is insane. 76% of Gen Z vinyl fans. Okay. So people who would identify themselves as like a, you know, regular buyer of vinyl, they buy vinyl at least once a month. 80% own a turntable.

[A]

So 20% are buying it purely as a collectible.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's here's here. And that's just within Gen Z. If we click out and we look at the populace more broadly. Yeah. 40% of vinyl purchasers in the US so they could be of any demographic.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

40. 40% do not own a turntable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I think points to what you're saying is like there's something to the physicality and the totem of it. You may be listening to it. Like I have a lot of artists who I listen to on Spotify, but I also in the vinyl, I do listen to the actual.

[A]

Sure. You probably listen to the vine, to the Spud, to them on streaming because it's more practical.

[B]

I probably listen to the streaming in terms of like a ratio to vinyl. Let's say, an album that I love, that I have on both vinyl and I stream, it's probably 100 to 1. Yeah. You know what I mean?

[A]

But that one time you want to go through the ritualistic nature of listening to me on vinyl is a whole other experience.

[B]

But there's also a thrill to. And I have some watches like this. There's also a thrill to just owning the vinyl, owning the record. It's an artist I love. It's a moment in time. It's something that I can physically have and hold. There are watches in my collection that are. That are like this, are a few watches that I rarely ever wear, but over my dead body are they coming out of my collection. Because even if I just pick them up and hold them, you know, it sounds creepy, but even if I just pick them up and hold them and spend some time with them a few times a year, I am so fulfilled by that and enriched by it. And I hold these things and I love them and I love keeping them and having them and I don't feel like I need to wear them, which I do with, with most watches I own.

[A]

And I think a lot of this is in many ways a reaction to how quick, how heavily the pendulum swung over the last 20 years into digital culture, digital communication and digital connectivity.

[B]

Absolutely. Backlash.

[A]

Yeah. And it's interesting because these things are not. They're not black and white. Right. I mean, when kollective as a business could not have started or grown or can or could not even run today without many of the scale digital products and tools that exist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So like, I want to be careful, you know, as we look at this, like, like there are. There's a movement that is reacting to an overcorrection in the way that the economy and product at scale have moved so aggressively into a digital licensing model and structure and away from physical ownership. That is causing a reaction which has at the, in many ways like a very positive connotation for watches. But also I would argue, for art in general. Like, think about it like this. What is Peak DRM from an art standpoint? Remember back in 2020 when everyone was

[B]

buying like I can't with this stuff or NFTs.

[A]

Yeah, that garbage. And like that to me was like, we finally reached peak nonsense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think that was where people started to pull back and be like, what, what am I doing here?

[B]

I did have a villa near Snoop Doggs in.

[A]

I bet you did.

[B]

What was that digital world where like Snoop Dogg had some.

[A]

Like, someone will Track down some, some presentation I gave for Facebook on YouTube. Fair enough, do it. But, but that was essentially like the core of it. And I think now what we start seeing is, look, if we want to be sobering here in 2024, Pew reported that 48% of US teens, like between the ages of 13 and 17 said social media's effects are mostly negative. That's up from 32% the year prior. And on a positive side, nearly half of those people, 44%, have now reduced their smartphone usage. And without getting into a whole separate topic, there's a lot of evidence out there that what we've seen from social media, et cetera, is potentially quite damaging for young people. And it is, I think, interesting and a great opportunity from an artistic standpoint to start pulling people back and away from that and into more analog experiences like film in theater, like theater on stage, like music on vinyl, like mechanical timepieces that have a real human connection. And interestingly, this also tends to fit into that sort of 20 to 25 year nostalgia cycle when, you know, we're both children of the 80s, right? So, like, our nostalgia cycle was very much anchored in the 60s and the 70s, you know, that's true. Like, we grew up, like, thinking about the Beatles and then punk music and like the Summer of Love and Woodstock. And like, these were things that like, reigned very. Or these were big cultural moments historically that like, lived in our world, you know, and inspired a lot of the music and culture and, and content that that came out of, of our generation. Kids now are nostalgic for like the early 2000s, you know, and the 90s, just like the very end of the 90s into the early 2000s. Like, that's their, like, iconic moment in many ways. And of course, what I. What, what is so key to that? Well, it's Case logic, right. You know, it's. It's, to a degree, vinyl. Lord knows if cassettes will ever come.

[B]

You know, I never, I never got rid of my CDs, still have my case logic. Two case logics. Yeah. And I bought a 2004 BMW 3 Series.

[A]

You're probably happy. You have all the CDs now.

[B]

And I have a Case Logic in the back of the car with all my CDs, and I use the CD player and I bust out the Case Logic and I pull out all the albums I hadn't listened to since I was like, you know, 20 years old. It's awesome.

[A]

Yeah. So what does this actually mean? Right, so this is interesting from a, from like a Sociological standpoint, definitely. Culturally. But from a product standpoint, it's fascinating because we're seeing several different industries that were essentially busted start to come back. Some of these are like, dear to my heart, like film cameras. Film cameras are back in production.

[B]

They are, interestingly, you know, a child owns a film camera.

[A]

No way. Really?

[B]

Well, like, like a Instax camera, but that's okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they have no interest in a digital camera. But when we start talking about the tangibility of it.

[A]

Yeah. And when we started thinking about like 35 millimeter film cameras, for example, there was this period of time. There's this like extended period of time where there simply were not any in production. Unless you were buying like a Leica.

[B]

Oh, yeah, dude. I mean, mainstream stuff. Kodak is up. Kodak's business, I wouldn't say is booming, but Kodak is a growing business again.

[A]

Yeah. And Fujifilm in particular is also leaning into not necessarily film cameras, but film like experiences.

[B]

Disposable cameras are actually what's driving most of the film consumption and is kind of driving the growth of that category.

[A]

Well, and part of what I think, and this is what I hear from other photographers, part of what I think excites them about that is the intentionality of it. I mean, digital. Digital has given. Gave us the ability to shoot everything all the time, always. But a 36. 36 exposures.

[B]

You gotta slow down.

[A]

That's all you got.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And of course, you don't even know what those are gonna look like for days or weeks, you know, unless you have your.

[B]

There's some fun in that, isn't there?

[A]

Absolutely there is. Yeah. And I think that that requires a level of like, presence. And we see this too in other segments and other worlds. Right. Analog synths are starting to come back. Are you familiar with a company called Teenage Engineering?

[B]

Yeah. No.

[A]

You should be because their product designs are incredible. Even if you're not interested in synths and things like that, they make absolutely incredible tactilely driven modern recording devices, mixing consoles and synths.

[B]

There is this awesome DJ called the Tune Girl.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

She's a grandmother from Germany who produces her own, like electronic, like techno music using like synths and completely. And an entirely analog setup. Yeah, So I saw her stuff on like, like a reel on. On Instagram. But she's fascinating. She's like, you know, entered retirement age. Her. She's an empty nester. Kids have left the house. She was into synthesizers and electronics, electronic music in the 80s and basically dusted off all her old Gear. Got some new gear, but it's all completely analog.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, she's not using a computer for any of this. And she's like now this like rising star of electronic music and playing like festival.

[A]

First of all, that's incredible. That's amazing. But to finish the thought on the, on teenage engineering, because I think this is an interesting thing. This was a very small niche company manufacturing extremely niche product that's not cheap. And last year publicly reported they broke $46 million in gross revenue.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And we're talking niche product here. So it's happening all around us.

[B]

Oh, it's happening everywhere.

[A]

And watches are not immune from it in any way. Which is a really frankly good thing.

[B]

Yeah, I mean I think it cynic would be cynical to say like, oh, you know, here comes the next boom for watches. It's driven by this cultural moment we're in. It's a, it's a fad. Just like the last one, this one won't last. And you're right. I mean you started this all off by saying the pendulum swings in both directions. You know, 20 years ago, a thousand songs in your pocket seems really cool. Twenty years later, you know, a collection of vinyl seems cool.

[A]

But here's the thing.

[B]

There's a big difference between this boom in watches and the previous one.

[A]

There, there is. And I would actually argue that the difference isn't that the pendulum swings at the complete expense of the other side. It just has evolved into more choice. So think about it, right? In, in 1996 or 97, when you and I were gonna go see like Blue Traveler at summer stage or something. Right.

[B]

Dude, guess where Blues Traveler's playing this summer.

[A]

Summer stage.

[B]

Summer stage. They've never been more popular.

[A]

No way.

[B]

Yeah. So I'm, I'm looking at the Hollywood bowl lineup for this year. Blues Travelers playing at the Hollywood Bowl. They've never headlined a show at the Hollywood Bowl.

[A]

Are they really headlining?

[B]

They're headlining show at the Hollywood bowl this summer.

[A]

Are they playing with the Spin Doctors or something?

[B]

They're Gin Blossoms.

[A]

Okay, same.

[B]

But this is my point. It's happening. It's broad based. It's not just Gen Z.

[A]

There is a difference. When we were seeing those shows in the 90s, we would line up to get tickets from Ticketmaster. Right. We would go.

[B]

You would go to a place of the good. Ticketmaster.

[A]

Exactly. You'd have to go and buy a copy of whatever record was coming out. That was the thing. And you had no other choice. That was it.

[B]

It.

[A]

And now There is choice. Your point about, like, well, I want to own the physical media, but I also want to have the ability to stream it at my leisure wherever I am. And the difference is not feeling shackled to one or the other.

[B]

Oh, yeah, okay.

[A]

So like, in 20 years, might that change? Of course it will. But I think what we are starting to see as a response is in 2011, 2012, like, you know, 2013, digital music with like, that was it. And vinyl was like super niche. Super niche.

[B]

And vinyl was dead. It was only. It was like a newspaper. It was only a matter of time before it would die. If you asked me 20 years ago, will vinyl be around in 20 years? I'd say no, it's going to just die a long, slow death and eventually you won't be able to buy records. I never would have guessed.

[A]

Remember, you know, exactly. Remember mini disc and that.

[B]

But some, but some things just don't go away. Like think about a pair of vans or Converse All Stars or whatever. Now they go through cycles.

[A]

Yeah, exactly, right.

[B]

But that they're always around. They may be more popular or in style at one moment or another, but they're always around. I think vinyl, like Blues Traveler has proven it's the same thing. It will always be around. It will be a choice. And there may may be moments in time where that choice is more appealing or in vogue or whatever, but it will endure. What's interesting too, watches have proven the same thing.

[A]

Absolutely. What's interesting to me too about this is like, analog culture requires patience. And patience is not something that culturally we have grown accustomed to anymore. Right. There is this certain, like, there is an immediacy that we've seen in our culture and also in the watch industry that is expected, right? How many times have we gotten a call from someone who's like, hey, do you have this watch in stock? And we're like, no, bro. Like, we're. It's like, that's two. We're sold out two years. Oh, hang up, call the next dealer. Do you have this one in stock?

[B]

It's like, maybe this is the pot calling the kettle black. You love buying in stock watches.

[A]

I do. Because immediacy is a major part of watch collection.

[B]

But some things you're willing to wait

[A]

for, some things you have to wait for, is my point. And that's because in order to make what we see in our side on Indies at any meaningful scale requires patience and time. That's true about the high end of watches. That's true about independence. Large, generally speaking. And Then there's this other side of it too, which is just constrained demand, which are things like neo vintage watches, which are evocative of the era that. That is, you know, a lot like these sort of late 90s, early 2000s, you know, culture.

[B]

It's the booming segment in. In vintage right now. So surprise, surprise.

[A]

What's fascinating to me here is how people are going to adapt to this, which is, you know, increased pricing and limited demand on the neo vintage side and the requirement of funding and patience, which, you know, old school, like, long in the tooth indie collectors are like, yeah, Asher, like, obviously, you know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna get my. My Roger Smith about 15 years after I die. Like, I'm aware of that, you know, but most people are still getting into that space right now, and they're still wrapping their head around it. And patience is such an integral component of analog culture. You know, it's like if you ever go back and you start watching or listening to the history of, like, analog

[B]

synths, like, there really ain't these analog synths.

[A]

The funny thing is, like, I'm not really big into like, synth, like synthesized music, but I'm fascinated by the artists that pioneered that space, you know, in like the late 70s and the early 80s craft work. There's so many people that would, like, go down this road, and it's like this was. And they were really trying to figure out how to squeeze music out of electronics that were not designed for or intended for purpose.

[B]

Cartoon girl.

[A]

Sounds like a cartoon girl, but, you know, but a lot of effort led to some really excellent music. And then of course, the foundation to what led to other genres of music down the road, which again, is what we're seeing now when you have a watchmaker like Josh Shapiro, who is a co, you know, is in our cohort. And, you know, yes, there's CNC machines in his workshop, but where does he love to be? Behind an engine. Behind a rose engine. And that is a real connection to a watchmaker. And the reason why a lot of people buy his watches is because they feel that human connection between the person who cut the dial and the object on their wrist. And I find that to be really interesting from a growth standpoint in this industry.

[B]

So let me play the role of the cynic and the pragmatist here.

[A]

That's my job.

[B]

Because you're all roses when it comes of this stuff. I do think someone could be listening to this and saying to themselves, guys, like I said, we've seen this movie before. Things come in and out of fashion. And yes, you know, vinyl may always be around, or Converse All Stars may always be be around or I don't know, George Clinton will always be on tour, whoever it might be. But things go in and out of. Of vogue, you know, like they just do. And this is a moment in which yes, there's this cultural moment and yes, watches are taking, are part of it and are participating in it, but you know, at some point attention will move away from this and culture will enter a new era and maybe we'll rediscover digital things or rather than collectibles, it will be about experiences or like things are always changing and evolving. What I do think though is, is different about this moment for, for watches versus the last sort of moment for watches, which was around Covid is the narrative around Covid was really about a couple of things. One, it was very focused on a few references you just couldn't get your hands on and a few. And like a style of watches, stainless steel sports watches and did all boats rise together because there's so much demand for those in demand watches that sort of lifted everything with it. Sure, yes, that was one thing. It was very focused on a particular kind of watch. Number two, it was very much driven, let's be honest, by speculation, investment mania, and a focus on the watches themselves as this kind of speculative asset. And that's a very different thing than what we're seeing now, which is a reawakening of and a renewed interest in things that are physical, that are tangible, that are old school, that are analog, that are in some this case are handmade. To me, the drivers of this resurgence in this interest in watches and this boom in watches, at least in the US there's a purity to it and it's focused on the intrinsics of the asset or not the asset. It's focused on the intrinsic of the watches themselves, what makes them interesting from a design standpoint, what makes them analog, what makes them handmade. And to me, that is a much more sustainable way of viewing watches than looking at them as something to try to collect and get the hardest one that no one else can have, that you can make money.

[A]

It's funny that you say this.

[B]

It's a more sustainable groundswell.

[A]

I've heard a few people say to me over the last few months that they've vibe coded a platform, you know, some variant of this, you know, that like scrapes, you know, some data source or some people's websites to find like quote the best deals on a Reference or hunt down a reference or, you know, in one way or another, automate the process of being a collector. That's really what it is. And there's. And different collectors have different motivations. Right. Some people want to. Some people are price conscious. Some people are rarity conscious. Some people are, you know, fall in some category.

[B]

I really want the thing I don't want to miss out on.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, there's, there's lots of, there's lots of personality types in collecting, obviously, but essentially, in one way or another, that's what we're. That's what these people are. Are doing, you know, as a cohort. They're. They're automating the experience of collecting. To me, that. Oh, that is a really fast. That poses a really fascinating rhetorical question. Right. I'll give an example of something I don't do. Maybe you do, and you could tell me if you think I'm right or wrong. I don't play fantasy football or any of that, but I've always kind of gotten the impression that part of what's so much fun about fantasy football is being so ensconced in that season.

[B]

Oh, this is why a lot of people like sports betting. It gives, like, real stakes to a game. Yeah, but you're also just.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. You have to be so present and aware of, like, what's happening that when you build your team and you, you, you know, you go with your friends into this fantasy league, like, you're really invested and you're using your own gut and obviously a healthy dose of luck to win the season. Now, you could Vibe code a platform that will, you know, do all of that for you. But, like, where's the fun in it?

[B]

Well, all the fantasy platforms will automate. Will automate your team if you, if you don't to stay active and.

[A]

Yeah, I know. But if you don't stay active and participate, who cares?

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

So my, My point is like. But if you're invested as a collector and you're automating the experience of collecting, I can.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like letting your fantasy league run on autopilot.

[A]

Right. Which, which I think goes back to this other idea of like, individual discovery and the physical nature of it. Like, think about Open House is a good example of this. Right. Every watch at Open House you could see on Instagram, essentially, but hundreds of people came to go hands on with them because that matters. Right? That's true about Geneva watch days. That's true about Watch Time New York or Windup or any of those awesome events. And I do think that as business continues to grow and evolve and move with the pendulum of culture, that tactile patient nature is actually something that we're going to see get not only take some degree of dominance as it is now, but be folded into the next trend in the same way that you enjoy vinyl and audio, and streamed audio because you want the choice of it as opposed to feeling like you're being dominated by one, you know, one pathway that you have to choose.

[B]

All right, so let's look at it this way. We've talked about how much all of this stuff has benefited watches. We've talked about how the kind of the three segments that are really booming right now in watches are neo vintage, in vintage independent brands and then watches in the $50,000 and up price point one, that's just a general commentary on economics that we don't need to get into and the cruel of wealth by the wealthiest and all that kind of stuff. But, but within that 50,000 and up segment, generally you have more kind of like hand work and things like that. So it makes sense as well. Are there segments of the industry that you think suffer in this, in this, in this era and then this focus on analog culture writ large. Is this, I don't know, is this bad for Apple watches? Is it bad for calculator watches? I guess calculator watches have a retro cool to them as well. Is this just out of hand good for watches? Or I guess maybe the, the question I'm asking is does this put certain kind of, certain kinds of watches in favor and others maybe out of favor?

[A]

I don't know. That's an interesting question. I mean, I, I don't want to, I don't want to like make assumptions or predict on that sense. I'm really kind of still wrapping my head around what these changes mean culturally and also from an experience standpoint. I mean, this is why like I get turned off when I feel like I'm being, you know. Well, let me rephrase. This is why the idea of AI agents, for example, in a sales setting seem absurd and very off putting to me because I don't want to be sold to by a computer that's trying to figure out the best possible way to get me to its outcome. I want to interact with an individual that's going to listen to what I want and help me get there. And those two things may sometimes align, but not always. And I think when we start thinking about how people are going to buy or what they're going to buy or things of that nature. The real key element is the human component of trying to understand where that cultural shift to taking someone and where their interests fundamentally lie, as opposed to assuming, well, ultimately we want to be available 24 7, so we're going to create a bot to be able to sell watches to whoever wants to talk at 2:00am all right. I don't know that that's going to lead anywhere. Great. You know, sorry, AI watch sales bot, IPO folk. But like, I think, I think it's. I think that this is something that we as a, as a platform need to be aware of. We as collectors need to be aware of and as an industry needs to be aware of as a key behavioral shift. Remember how like four or five years ago where everyone was all obsessed with using augmented reality to show you what a watch looked like on your wrist?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And how nobody did it. It like, yes.

[B]

No one does that anymore.

[A]

Well, it's not even like nobody does it anymore. It's like part of the reason nobody does it anymore is because no users used it. Because everyone's like, this is stupid. And it's one of those things where, you know, it's one thing to try

[B]

a pair of glasses on through augmented reality and get a general sense of what will look on your face. But I think what you, what people seek in watches is much more nuanced than what does this look like on my wrist in a very crude render, because it fails to capture things that people love about watches, like, like finishing details, ergonomics, all sorts of. I mean, obviously we obsess over the details and you just don't get that in when you have some 32 bit watch on your wrist. Yeah, it doesn't work. Although I've discovered these glasses through, through augmented reality. I think one of the things I find interesting is we were entering this moment where there was this trend in watches, certainly among watch enthusiasts, where what we were starting to see were watches that were kind of thoroughly modern taking center stage and people saying, we were among those people. People have been saying that neo vintage or, sorry, vintage inspired watches were sort of falling out of favor. And what was falling into favor were things that were much more modern in their design, much more clean design, less fauxtina or gilt, things that were more monochromatic, things that were using more interesting material, whether it was titanium or ceramic. Some of the things we talked about at the bottom of show, and this was so exciting because finally we had reached this point of fatigue with these nostalgia Driven watch designs. And what this was encouraging was watchmakers to take more risk and to try things that felt more contemporary and modern and didn't as strongly reference or worst case, facsimile vintage watches. And what an exciting time to be a watch collector. They're experimenting with all this stuff now that we're entering this. This what is in part very much a nostalgia cycle. Because, yes, this is driven, you're right, a large, to a large extent, by Gen Z saying, like, hey, we're taking stock of how we use digital media and we also like these other things and we want things that are more physical. Like the Gen Z thing is part of it. And of course, the young generation always defines the cultural zeitgeist. That's always been the case.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But at the same time, what's also happening is you have their parents, Gen X, entering a phase where they have more and more disposable income and are also becoming nostalgic for their own youth. The same way the boomers went out and all bought Corvettes. You have Gen X now living as empty nesters with disposable income. And they're buying things like watches, they're buying things like vinyl, and they're participating in this moment. So you have these two waves cresting where you have Gen Z looking kind of for things that are analog. You have Gen X looking toward nostalgia. And both of these trends are aligning and creating this Megatrend does this. Is this bad news for watches that are contemporary in design? Is the watch market going to be out of sync with a culture that's looking for nostalgia?

[A]

No. And I want to be.

[B]

There's still enough nostalgia driven watches out there.

[A]

Well, I want to be very careful because what we're describing is a trend, not an uber reality. And there are many people that feel this way and many people that don't. So I, you know, just like when we were, you know, again, going back to like our youth, when we were thinking about the 60s or, you know, the 70s, there are plenty of people who, like, could not care less.

[B]

It's true, it's true, like, bell bottoms were in for a while, but then there are plenty of people who are wearing JNCO jeans.

[A]

Yeah, so, so my, so my point being, like, I want to again, be very careful.

[B]

JNCO jeans are back.

[A]

I do know they're.

[B]

Did you think those were ever coming back?

[A]

No, no.

[B]

Horrifying.

[A]

But. But wow. But putting that aside for a sec, you know, there are going to be people who are like, yeah, why would I? I Mean, why would I buy books anymore? Kindle's perfectly fine. You know, why would I want vinyl? Like it's finicky and expensive and blah blah blah, you know, which is true by the way. Like in order to listen to vinyl. Like it is significantly more expensive to listen to music on vinyl and to maintain a vinyl collection than it is to pay whatever Spotify costs annually.

[B]

I guess if we're going to do like vintage. So if like the 2010s was defined by watches that reinterpreted essentially like the 1950s and 60s, like think about the black bay that fits. That's sort of the poster child watch for that era of, of watchmaking and watch design. Like that was the sort of vintage reissue watch, the throwback and nostalgia watch. Are we entering a phase now where maybe the nostalgia watch is like those, remember those Tag Heuer link watch?

[A]

Oh, of course.

[B]

Like of course. I mean I guess neo vintage is back. Are we going to start to see like how cool would it be to see some like neo vintage RE releases? Like what if Tag Heuer brings back the link? I guess they did bring back, brought back the Formula one. Yeah, exactly. Like Breitling. I would love to see bring back some of those watches. I would love obviously iwc, they have explored a lot of the watches from that good or bloom line era. But like continuing to do that, there's probably more of a moment for that now. Like man, would I love to see some neo vintage reissues. Is that the next trend in watches?

[A]

I do not think culture is a monoblock. I think if we continue to go with the logic that we've been exploring in this conversation, it's that trends add new layers of choice to experience.

[B]

So you're saying the link is coming back?

[A]

What I'm saying is that the link can come back and exist next to the modern Skipper or any of the more modern. That's probably a bad example because it is a throwback. But like trying to think of. I don't know that much about Tag Heer, but like you know, like one of the more modern pieces.

[B]

Like what's the. The dive watch?

[A]

The Aquaracer.

[B]

Aquaracer. Yeah.

[A]

But my point, my point is like I think what we will see is more choice that caters to different corners of that. Just like to your point about dumb phones and smartphones, I would not be surprised if in the next five to 10 years we see a significantly slimmed down phone coming from Samsung or from app that offers a lot less in the way of apps and the Rest of that and then find some other. And then probably costs a lot more because it diminishes their ability to monetize

[B]

you in that way.

[A]

But if you want to pay for that in the same way that you can pay for Netflix without advertising as the premium product, I mean, kind of. Right. Because if that's essentially what you're saying, which is like, I don't want all this other crap. I just want a phone with maps and texting, and I want the Apple ecosystem, but I don't want all of that, well, then Apple's probably gonna say, okay, fine, but that's gonna cost you three times as much. In. Which is a. Which is a freemium, not freemium. Sorry. A premium model that we've seen explored for decades.

[B]

Yeah. You know, on Amazon prime, with ads, you pay a little more.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. So I think. I think to go back to your earlier point, it will be about adding choice. And, you know, there is a sort of interesting question for the watch industry about, like, well, what does that look like? Now, let's assume that Hilaria Resta hadn't just woken up and decided that she was an expert at stepping on rakes. Another way that she could explore this concept of the royal pop would be one of these is extruded and immediate. This other one is positioned as high end and delay deliberate.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

And there's this. I. There's a kind of an interesting thought

[B]

there about, like, Swatch makes one of the royal pops. AP makes the other one.

[A]

Well, yeah, but one of them is immediate, and one of them is not right. And I think that. So it's like, if. If what we're saying is, like, analog culture is great, but you don't really have the patience for it. Okay, here's a. You know, here. Here's a plastic talisman that gets you half of the way there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I don't know that the

[B]

royal pop fits into this trend. It feels to me more like a cynical cash co. Yeah.

[A]

I don't want to go back down that path. But my point, just being, like, if you were to apply logic to a somewhat illogical strategy like that, I could see something like that.

[B]

How could you execute it to better meet?

[A]

Well, because, I mean, that happened with the Moon Swatch, right? I mean, after the initial push of the moonswatch being difficult to get, now that everyone who wanted to play with it has played with it, the immediacy is there. You can have that watch tomorrow, that watch right now. And, you know, a moonwatch, you probably can too, but may depend on the funds that you have, what variant of it you're looking for. Like any number of things that the moonwatch can deliver on. Moonswatch, excuse me, can deliver on with immediacy that the other one can't. So my point being that answers like the level, like the access to something immediate versus the thing that waits is a response to what we saw seven or eight years ago with, you know, at the beginning of COVID when, when, when nothing was available, immediacy was impossible, possible. So now we may start seeing a response to people with analog culture saying, okay, here are a lot of pieces and things that require patience and time and effort and whatever. And if you don't like that, that's fine. Here's another option for you.

[B]

Yeah, and I think people are going to say, guys, we already have this. You've been talking about it for years. Like we've been talking about how smaller watches, shaped watches, gem set watches, stone dial watches and things like that were this growing segment within the industry. And that's, that's true. And I do think that they're part of that of, of this moment, but they're at the bleeding edge. Yeah, those watches, both in their time in like the 80s and early 90s and now were driven by sort of the tastemakers, the people out on the bleeding edge of, of culture. Just, just like you pointed out, like there's something for everyone. Those watch, like your average punter wasn't walking around wearing like a stone dial, oddly shaped watch in the 1990s. They were probably wearing something like a Tag Heuer Formula one or a Link watch or something like that. And so now I think the question is the, the industry cracked the door open with shaped watches, small watches, dress watches and things like that. You know, like the early adopters, the people on the bleeding edge of fashion and culture and watch collecting were there and the seen success with that. Now, as this nostalgia phase and this analog phase, this in culture takes shape and gathers steam, how's the industry going to respond to it? They can't just keep making stone dial watches now. They need to, I think, open the aperture a little bit and start to look at what does, like I said, what does a vintage reissue watch look like in 2026 and 2027? Yeah, and I'm very curious to see how it, how it takes shape because the early answer was stone dial watches. I think we're frankly at the end of that phase. I don't know how many more legs that really has. Yeah, so it'll be interesting to see how we move into maybe a more broad based relook at Neo Vintage watches in, in, through, through the, the industry in present day. I don't know where that's going to take us, but I'm excited for it. It, I'm here for it. There are a lot of watches from that era that I'd love to revisit with, with modern construction and materials.

[A]

Shall we leave it there?

[B]

Let's leave it there. Well, thank you for listening. This, of course, is openwork, a production of Collective Horology. You can find us online@collective horology.com and if you want to get in touch with your suggestions, we want suggestions for Neo Vintage reissues, show topics, questions, whatever it might be. Just email us@podcastollective horology.com.

[A]

Okay.