← Openwork: Inside the Watch Industry
Openwork: Inside the Watch Industry
The Sleepers of Watches and Wonders 2026 – Our Favorite Releases from Geneva – Episode 77
00:58:24
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- [00:01]
A
It is so much fun to go into a meeting where you see a watch and, like, you know, you're not running numbers in your head, you're just like, you know what? Yeah, we'll take, we'll take X of those and Y of those and Z of those. Like, we're in. It's great. I love it.
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B
This is openwork, a look inside the watch industry, a podcast from Collective Horology. I am Gabe Riley, co founder of Collective.
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A
I'm Asher Rapkin, confounded by Collective.
- [00:26]
B
Collective is an independent watch retailer based in Southern California. We carry a wide range of independent brands, including, did you know this? Armin Strom, Gaga, Laboratorio, David Kando, and more. To learn more about us, to check out our available inventory and all sorts of other stuff, visit collective horology.com well, we're back from Geneva, but now it seems like we're dealing with jet lag on the other side of this thing. Man, what a week in Geneva. This was the first time I felt truly overwhelmed and exhausted by our time there. I think as the years go by, you have to keep in mind, like, well, the first time you went to
- [01:10]
A
SIH, I was in my 30s.
- [01:13]
B
You were in your 30s, but presumably you had far fewer meetings and things to do. You had some time to, to, to be there and was more focused. And then, you know, obviously when we started this whole thing retailing independent brands, we had far fewer brands to meet with. We carried fewer brands. There are fewer brands reaching out to us. There are fewer brands we were pursuing and looking to add and things like that. It was much more focused. I mean, how many meetings do you think we had in the three days of meetings?
- [01:45]
A
About 30.
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B
Probably 30. I mean, it got to the point where we were starting to have to, which we didn't do in the past, split up. And I think a big reason why in the past we haven't divided and conquered and split up is because it's important for both of us to see things. It's important for both of us to meet with people. Important for both of us to be on the same page about the watches we see and the people we meet. But it's got. It's gotten to the point where it's, it's grueling, It's. It's intense. I mean, it's grueling and intense in the best possible way. I mean, boy, talk about being spoiled for, for choice. It's incredible to be able to see that many watches, but it, it takes its toll.
- [02:24]
A
Yeah, it's It's, I mean, watches and wonders, and we've talked about this in the past, but you know, watches and wonders is challenging because it's so spread out the PAL exp. Convenient if you have other meetings in the city. I don't mean that like shade. It's just the reality, you know, it takes 30 to 40 minutes to get there from Central Geneva. 30, 40 minutes to get back. So on some days, like on Friday, I had to pogo back and forth between the Villa Saracen, which is right next to the PAL Expo, and downtown and back. It's just a lot, you know. And of course in all of these meetings you have 30 minutes, 45 minutes to discuss a year's worth of business. And of course spend time with people that you respect and care about. And you know, not for. Not look at watches and to do so with a, with a critical eye because of course you're making your commitments for a good portion of the year just from those few minutes with those watches. So it is a ton of fun and it's an incredible experience and is absolutely mission critical as a business. But yeah, it's, it's a lot. And you know, pour one out for, for the watch journalists there too.
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B
Oh my gosh. I don't know how on earth they do it.
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A
Yeah, I mean it's. If it's hard for us, it's, it's the, you know, it's a center. Was it second, third ring of hell for them? Yeah, just in terms of there. There is no break. There's no break. Yeah, it's just non stop.
- [03:42]
B
Well, we saw Zach Kazan and Zach Weiss actually both on the way out when we were leaving Geneva, we saw
- [03:48]
A
everyone was on our flight, so. Victoria G. From, from Rob Report in the New York Times.
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B
And I gotta say, they all looked pretty good. I mean, considering the, with the, the third ring of hell or whatever that they, they went down to.
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A
I'm.
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B
They. Everyone looks good. I mean, that's the thing. It's ex. You wake up at six in the morning, you go to bed at midnight if you're lucky, and you're just working all day and seeing so many watches, it is emotionally exhausting, I think, not to see that many watches. But to your point, the stakes are high and to be that present because of course when you're there, you want to be fully there. And that means devoting a ton of mental energy to really focusing and being present. There's no breaks, there's no timeouts, there's no looking at your phone and Being distracted or tuning out.
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A
There's no snacks.
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B
There's no snacks. There's plenty of espresso, but no snacks.
- [04:36]
A
There.
- [04:36]
B
You're fully on. But we're going to talk about the watches. We saw this this past week that really stood out to us and this is as we always do. These are the unsung watches of, of watches and Wonders. We're not going to be talking about the releases that hey. And deservedly so get plenty of, of praise and, and attention. You know, there were great things from all sorts of brands from Pariani to IWC to Bulgari and Rolex had some fun stuff. We're not talking about any of that and that's not to take anything away from it. But those watches have been discussed plenty. You know, I spent some time going through recaps from watches and wonders from folks on YouTube, from blogs and, and media sources and, and again, rightfully so. They've all covered the watches that were really in the, in the Plexpo and the things that everyone's been talking about. And it's not that we're not interested in those things or that we don't like them. We do. But we're going to focus on the watches we think didn't get the attention that they deserve. These sort of unsung watches, these hidden gems of, of watches and wonders. And importantly, I think most if not all of these things.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Are things that you and I actually went hands on with ourselves. So that's, that's important too. It's not that we're reacting to something that someone else covered. These are watches we all have direct hands on experience with. So let's see. I think we're going to just do four for each. How does that sound?
- [06:06]
A
Love it.
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B
All right, give me your first unsung watch of watches and Wonders. Geneva Watch Week I guess we're now calling it.
- [06:13]
A
Yeah. So this is a watch that I became aware of a few months ago when they announced it. And I think like a lot of people I found it very striking, no pun intended, when I, when I get into it. But in the metal it is a profoundly interesting watch. And that is the Niton jump hour. So this is a, it is a pre existing brand. So it's a historical brand that interestingly and almost in parallel to fears, you know, sort of one of the two founders realized that they had a historical familial connection to the original owners of Niton or the last owners of Nitan rather, who coincidentally were also owners of Vacheron Constantin and There's a couple of really interesting things about this jump hour. So first, of course, is the display, which, when you consider the fact that the design was born in the early 20th century, is actually kind of an avant garde watch. You know, having not only the. The jump hour itself, but having the minute hand be a rotating disc all of the time, information being presented linearly. Remember that, because we're going to come back to another watch that talks about linear consumption of time, reading of time. But of course, it's also got a bunch of tricks up its sleeve. And there are two elements of it that we found particularly beguiling, aside from the fact that the watch itself is gorgeous. The first is that it is a striking jump hour.
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B
And what that means is it is beautiful. You're right.
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A
Yeah, It's. It's stunning when it gets.
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B
But it's literally a striking jump hour.
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A
Yes, quite literally. When the hour changes, you'll hear a very quiet, a very resounding and elegant ding. Just giving a real kind of hat tip to the turn of the hour. It's very subtle, it's very elegant. It's not super loud. It's not trying to be super loud. It's just a really. It's a really thoughtful and elegant and kind of unusual complication. But to me, what I found so remarkable about this watch was the design of the movement. It is a Geneva sealed movement, which is not a thing that you really see all that often in independent watches these days.
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B
Yeah, no, not really.
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A
And not only is it a Geneva sealed movement, and it's beautiful. I mean, you look at photographs of it, you have these gorgeous black polished bridges, but you also have a very modern design and aesthetic.
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B
That's what's so cool about it.
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A
Yeah, and you have this sort of. Yeah, exactly. You have this interesting contrast, counterbalance, whatever you want to call it, between a very modern movement architecture and a very classical standard of finishing. And these two things don't necessarily appear together all that often. You know, when I think of a Geneva sealed movement, I think of like a Vacheron Constantin. I think of like, Pre. Yeah, exactly. Chopard.
- [08:56]
B
Do they do Geneva seal or they have their own.
- [08:58]
A
I'm not sure about Chopard, but I know that prior to the Patek Philippe seal, Patek, of course, was Geneva sealed. But in my mind, it's like. It's Vacheron, you know, like, that's where my head goes for Geneva seal.
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B
And it's very classical, too. It's like we kind of know the cues of Geneva seal decoration.
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A
Yeah, and it's not.
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B
And movement architecture.
- [09:16]
A
Totally. And these are not low standards. These are extremely high standards. There's not many people in Switzerland that know how to make movements and, or rather finish movements to the standard of the Geneva seal. So when you put all this together, you know, you have this, this historical connection, you have this interesting, you know, push and pull, this tension of modern design and classical finishing. You know, the watch feels beautiful on the wrist. The proportions are gorgeous, and the guys behind it are really interesting and thoughtful. And one of the fascinating parts is that one of the two founders comes from a marketing background, which obviously Gabe and I feel a connection to. But it's clear through and through, because every element of the way that they present the watch talk about it, and ultimately the way it arrives on the wrist not only shows a thorough passion for watchmaking, but also a real clear understanding of how to build a brand for the future. So I was floored. You know, the watch, currently the launch edition, came in both a gold and a platinum edition. Both are beautiful in their own right. You know, the watch was priced, I don't want to get this wrong, it was somewhere in the like 60 to 80,000 US dollar range, which is, you know, not a deal. But also, and I mean that in a positive way, like you're paying for excellent work, but it's not super expensive relative to what I think they're offering. It's like really in this sweet spot of this is what this watch should cost and this, and it's worth it. And I can tell you, having had it on my wrist, it was, it was magical. Yeah.
- [10:40]
B
And this, this watch, I think to me speaks to exactly what we were chatting about at the beginning of the podcast, which is the importance you and I going hands on with watches and being present for it. This was a watch, of course, I'd seen covered. And, you know, you're scrolling through your watch news aggregator and you say, oh, look, another upstart brand with a jump hour moving on. And to have the time to meet the people and to spend hands on time with the watch to understand the story of the brand and how thoughtful they were in resurrecting this brand. And then to go hands on with the watch and see just how well executed it is to look at the. You know, when you look closely, this is, I think, a metaphor for this watch overall. It's like the closer you look, the more you're rewarded. So, for instance, when I look at the dial, forget about the dial layout and the conceptual approach to time Telling here, but when you. When I looked at the dial closely and the dial furniture, it's beautiful. It has a modern aesthetic, but it's very clean. It's a. It's very tidy. It's immaculately finished. So it bal is both drawing on the brand's back catalog, but also feeling very fresh and very modern in its execution. The same with the movement. You look at the movement, it's like that's a very architectural, modern movement. And then you look closely at the finishing and executed at the higher, highest standard. And then you're told it's a Geneva sealed movement. And so, you know, looks like a straightforward jump hour watch, but it's actually a striking jump hour watch. So it's just, it's this watch that all my favorite watches do this they just reward deeper and deeper exploration. And you know, you look at it and it's one thing, but you spend time with it and you just start to appreciate so much more about it. That was what I found just so magical about, about that watch in particular is like the more you scratched below the surface, the more you were rewarded. And oftentimes it's kind of the opposite with a lot of watches. So. Good first pick. Mine is The Zeit Winkle one.
- [12:45]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [12:46]
B
Yeah. 173. 173 degrees in both sapphire fume and sapphire blue. So Zeit Winkle's kind of signature watch is probably the 273. This is the. I guess it's a. That's a 42 millimeter or 43 millimeter version. The same watch, but it's. It's essentially got a sapphire dial and it shows you underneath it. Zeit Winkle's in house. Grand date time, time and grand date movement. I believe there's a power reserve on the dial as well. And consistently what we hear from, from clients is I love that watch because it really is everything that zeitwinkle offers. Not just from like what they're capable of doing, but it. One of the things Lightwinkle really prides themselves is the attention to detail in finishing. And so having a dial that exposes the inner workings of the watch just puts on display and leaves it naked in the best possible way. The attention to detail they apply to their. To their movement, finishing and what they're capable of with their. With their in house, their grand date movement. And then. But what we hear is, I love everything about this. It's a quintessential Zeit Winkle watch. It's the one I want, but it's maybe too big for me.
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A
Yep.
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B
And executed here in a smaller watch, a 39 millimeter watch. It doesn't feel like they just kind of shrunk it and scaled it down. It really. It just really works. I mean, I had that thing on my wrist and it just melted. And I had no problem with the original version of the watch. I think a lot of times when I hear, like, complaints about the size of the watch, it's like, oh, I'd only be in if it was so much smaller. I'm like, but this is the watch. That's what it is. That's how it was designed. That's how it was conceived. It's in these proportions for a reason. And then I experienced this watch in a. In a smaller size, and I'm like, wow, this thing just. It's effortless on. On the wrist. It gives you everything Zeit Winkle does so well. It's a quintessential expression of that, of that brand in this format that I'm now so glad existed. So I just got so much joy wearing that. I've always loved their watches, but, man, there's something about that, about that case size that really sings and really impressed me.
- [15:11]
A
Yeah, this one is. It doesn't require a whole lot of explanation. It's a fantastic watch that's executed proportionally really well. I will say one thing. We talk. You know, this is an interesting thing about watch proportions. I remember Nicholas moments Gargill, when he launched the Brunswick 40, had to talk to us about, you know, you don't just take a watch and put it into illustrate exactly, like proportionally, that would look ridiculous. You know, one of the interesting things about the Brunswick 40 is that, you know, it still has a 20 millimeter lug width, just like the B38. And that's because proportionately that was necessary to make that look, that watch feel right on the wrist.
- [15:48]
B
It would have looked off if it had a 21 millimeter lug width.
- [15:51]
A
Yeah, maybe. I mean, but. But it looks right the way it is and the proportions. It may look like you just, you know, you know, made it bigger in Illustrat. But like, that's. That's not what it is. When you look at this watch, you know, scaling it down could have had a cramp, you know, could have made it feel cramped, could have made the watch feel far less appealing, and it doesn't. It works. And that's a difficult thing to achieve proportionally from a design standpoint, let alone the technical reality of how you make something like that work. So it's not a small feat when you hear somebody say, hey, now, available in a smaller size doesn't just mean what you think it means sometimes. And I had to learn that myself. So kudos to them. They nailed it.
- [16:34]
B
Yeah. Sometimes you see these watches that are offered in two sizes like this, and you're like, this one of these two sizes didn't need to exist. And I saw another watch last week that was offered in two sizes, and I was like, but the smaller size just works. So it was launched in two sizes. Like, the smaller size just. It works for what you're trying to do here, you didn't need to make the bigger watch, so you don't always need to do it. But in this case, I think these. These options are great. And you're right, this is a straightforward one. But I'm so glad to see it, and I know a lot of people will really be happy that Zeit Winkle is moving. It moved in that direction and. And offered the smaller size.
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A
All right, we're giving out free nut cakes.
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B
Yes. You got. You got four nut cakes.
- [17:14]
A
They gave me four nut cakes. So thank you for those, which, like I said, no snacks, except it's Iwinkle.
- [17:20]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was that our first meeting?
- [17:23]
A
That was our very first meeting of watches and wonders.
- [17:25]
B
So you were. You were loaded for bear for the rest of the week with nut cakes. Thank God. All right, what you got?
- [17:31]
A
All right, next one was a watch that I have heard a lot about but hadn't had the chance to go hands on with. And then part of what was exciting about this was that there was actually working prototypes there for this, which was Sylvain. Bernard was kind enough to welcome us to his space, which is essentially in an art gallery not far from Reza Brigepi's and Aquivia's workshops. It's beautiful. Right on the edge of the Old Town in Geneva. And I got to go hands on, as did Gabe, with both the Quant diem and the Mirage. The Mirage is one of my favorite watches of the modern era, but we'll put that aside, because I had not had the opportunity to look at the quantium. And there's two things I think, to take away from it, and one is a strategic thing, and the other is. Is just the magnificence of the watch itself. Strategically, I think it is a perfect example of why that brand has its head on straight, because when you consider that Sylvain himself came from more mainstream brands, his last job was the chief chief design Officer at product officer, Design officer.
- [18:29]
B
I don't know.
- [18:30]
A
Forgive me. He was.
- [18:30]
B
Tell me.
- [18:32]
A
He was essentially running the design department at Breitling, obviously much more mainstream brand. And I think one of the lessons that must have come in through there, just through all of his work in general, was this idea that, you know, it's critical when you're a young brand to be able to give yourself Runway, to have the space and have people accept that your watches will be diverse and won't necessarily all follow in the same footsteps of, say, the Mirage, which is how the brand launched. The Quantieme is a completely different execution, more traditional in its design, but no less revolutionary in the movement architecture and the technicality than the Mirage. But when you put the two up on the board and you say, well, the Mirage is a much more avant garde artistic execution, very romantic, and the Quantieme is very traditional in its aesthetic, if not in its execution. He's giving himself and he's giving the brand permission to essentially do whatever it wants.
- [19:26]
B
Well, I don't think that's. Aesthetically, I don't think that's true. I think that's easy to say. Sure. Aesthetically, yes. I think what he's doing instead is he is defining the brand. I think it's easy to say, oh, he did two things that are so different, so the brand can defy being defined. I don't think that's true at all. I think he's choosing what the brand will be defined by, which is its approach to movement architecture and movement design. You know, when. When he talks about the Mirage.
- [19:51]
A
But that's the same thing. I mean, when we're talking about something is that. I mean, he can have a mission and a goal for how he chooses to approach that. Every movement, for example, will match that watch completely. But the pro. But the aesthetic of those watches are. So here I'll give an example.
- [20:05]
B
I think we're. We're saying the same thing, but I think, okay, it's easy to say, oh, well, you know, he just planted this flag in the ground so that the brand can't. No, I think he's choosing instead what the brand is defined by. And it's not aesthetics. It's his approach to thinking through.
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A
Well, it's not. It's not a single aesthetic. I think that's. That's. That's what I mean. Like, it's.
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B
It. The. The. The. The consistent thread between the Mirage, which started not as a shaped watch, but an. An approach to movement design and architecture that then required a shaped Case the Quantie M is an approach to time telling and, and which we'll get into and like the way time telling is rendered that requ architecture. So sure, to me it's like what's interesting about both watches is the movement architecture and design, not necessarily the design or the layout of the watch.
- [21:00]
A
I'll put it this way. I agree with you that I don't think that he approached it by saying, I'm going to do this to give myself permission to do whatever I want. But I think by making the choice to have a more traditionally designed watch as his second piece, it has that effect.
- [21:12]
B
Oh, I think he did say I'm doing this. So I'm not defined by an aesthetic. Right. But I'm instead defined. Defined by something else. I think every brand needs to be defined by something and have something that it stands for. I don't think it's enough to say, oh, we just do whatever we want. And I don't think that's what's happening here.
- [21:30]
A
I don't think that's what's happening either. I guess my point is he could have been pigeonholed if he continued down just the mirage path. Yeah, but he didn't.
- [21:38]
B
No, I think it's smart.
- [21:39]
A
And yeah, and the sophomore effort, I think is what gives the brand long term legs. And then of course there's, you know, and I don't want to mischaracterize this because we only spent a few minutes with him, but he takes us, he took us through the technical, the technicality of that watch and like the, the engineering that went into it. And suffice to say, I encourage all of you to go and spend some time on YouTube, listen to him talk about it, look at the watch yourself. The way that movement has been built is absolutely fascinating. The historical, the historical aesthetic link to why that watch is a regulator and how it was buil built in that way is fascinating. And then just from a purely, you know, aesthetic standpoint on the wrist, it's utterly magnificent. So it's one of those few calendar watches that I see and I think not only is this a clear linear way of reading time, but it is a beautiful piece of art. It's just magnificent. And then, you know, as an honorable mention, the, the mirage with the stone dials, you know, especially the tiger's eye. Just magical because those sub seconds, which I did not know are hand carved, that sub dial and that makes every piece have its own unique quality to it. I could wax poetic about what I think, you know, for, for Many more minutes about why I think this brand has its head on straight. But suffice it to say, it was an incredible experience to see, you know, what they're building over there and how they're bringing it to life. And I cannot wait to see what comes out from them next. They're doing great stuff.
- [23:11]
B
I'll give you my favorite detail, the quantia manuel, which is the, the date display.
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A
Oh, yes.
- [23:18]
B
So this, this just shows you how thoughtful this watch is. And the watchmaking is here. And when I say, like, oh, they're really thinking about movement, design and architecture in an unusual way. And this is what, this is what unifies these two pieces, the Mirage and the Quantien Manuel in. So on the date display, you'll notice that the dates are evenly spaced. So think about most watches that have like a date display, like a retrograde date dis or something like that, or a pointer, pointer date. You'll notice on a lot of those watches though, the, they get sort of bunched together. So like the, because there's an even amount of space between each digit, that means there's the same amount of space between a one digit digit and a two digit digit. So like the number one has just as much space between it and the number two as the number 10 and 11 or 20 and 21. And so the larger numbers just get bunched together on dials or sub dials as a result of that. And if you're really thinking about aesthetics and legibility, that's not great. Now obviously it's a sacrifice you need to make because the internal gearing of the watch. But Sylvan decided here that's not a sacrifice I want to make. I want to have this dial be beautiful and, and functional and be a, be a design object. So what he did is instead of bunching the, the dates together as the numbers get, as the numbers get larger, both both literally and figuratively, he instead gives the same amount of space between each number by changing the gearing of the watch. So the teething in the gearing and the movement, the teething is bigger or smaller, depending on how much space you need to have between the, between the digits, which is such a clever solution. And it's basically complexity in the internals of the watch in the service of simplicity on the readout of the dial, which I thought was one really cool, really smart genius. And you wonder why you haven't seen that before. But of course it requires a higher level of thoughtfulness and trouble really in the design of the movement. So seeing Details like that and having the maker walk you through that and explain that is exactly why you do this stuff in person and one of the many reasons I found that watch and its approach to movement design just so cool, so thoughtful.
- [25:47]
A
Agreed.
- [25:48]
B
All right. Speaking of horological tours of force, next up I've got the Armin Strom minute repeater resonance 1259. And this I think was the, the coolest watch in my opinion in the halls of the Plexpo. Of course, Armin Strahm was exhibiting at Watches and Wonders in the Carrie Des. And this is not just a minute repeater which in, in itself is always impressive. It's not just a Westminster Chime Hammers which is always impressive. Not just a, a resonance minute repeater which is impressive, which is next level, but it th. This watch does all of those things and then it, it's a significant jump down in size from Armin Strom's original minute repeater. So I think it's a 42 millimeter watch, 42 or 43, which given the level of, of complexity in the movement here is quite, quite, quite remarkable. But it has two chiming modes. So it will not only chime the current time whenever, whenever you want, but you can change the chiming modes. So you can have it chime your current chime or. Because why not? You can have it chime 1259 anytime you want. And why 1259?
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A
Well, it's 42 millimeters.
- [27:07]
B
42 millimeters. There you go. Not 43. So quite impressive. And, and it will chime at any point in time. 12:59. Why? Well, because of course that's the most hours and minutes the chiming mechanism could possibly chime. So it gives you the most melodic possible chime. It shows you everything the watch is capable in terms of the chimes.
- [27:29]
A
And well, it's also just like a very interesting sort of self reflective feature because if you think about it like how if anybody has ever seen had somebody demonstrate a minute repeated and they generally set it, you know, so that you, those full charms that you have to essentially unset the watch from the
- [27:45]
B
actual time or, or if you show someone when the time is set, you know, you played if it's one o' clock in the afternoon or something like that, you're like well trust me though, it's really cool at like, you know,
- [27:55]
A
1158 in that sense it's, it's a really kind, it's a really wonderful watch because having those two modes, you know, which is like the, the actual quote unquote mode of like I'm going to chime out the time as it is today versus just essentially demo mode, you know.
- [28:10]
B
Yeah, demo mode.
- [28:11]
A
I mean that's basically what it is. And it's just, it's so, it's so. How would I put this? It understands its user.
- [28:19]
B
Yeah.
- [28:19]
A
You know, and, and that's just, it's, it's not something you generally see in watchmaking. You know, like if you want to demonstrate like a feature, usually you have to jerry rig the watch to do the thing you want it to do. So I love that about it. But I think.
- [28:34]
B
But it's also aware, it's aware of its user, the demo mode. It's also aware of its. This is a half million dollar watch. And so, you know, a minute repeater in and of itself is kind of ridiculous thing. A resonance minute repeater is wildly absurd. So why not have it just go all out and give you that, give you that anytime demo mode.
- [28:54]
A
But speaking about people who know who they are, this watch is the, it's Armin strong through and through. I mean, the watch itself is also, we should say, like it is a very elegant watch, you know, I mean, yes, it is finished to the nines, you know, yes, it is technically unbelievable, but it's also, it's also kind of subdued, you know, which is interesting because for all of the technicality involved in it when you look at it, it's actually like a, I don't want to say sedate, but like it's very refined
- [29:22]
B
for what it is. Yeah. A lot of times if I were to tell you, you know, close your eyes and imagine a resonance minute repeater, you would be imagining a watch that was probably extremely ornate and you know, with hand engraved bridges and all this stuff. And to be clear, from diamond indices. Yeah. From a finishing perspective, this watch leaves nothing, you know, spares nothing. I mean the finishing is immaculate, as Armin Strong watches always are and extremely impressive. But the overall design and aesthetic approach here, you're right, it's restrained. Hey, it's Gabe. Openwork is proudly ad free and requires no paid subscription. If you'd like to support the show, please take a moment to subscribe, rate and review on your podcast platform of choice. Please also check out and subscribe to collective horology on YouTube where you'll find hundreds of videos we've made on independent watchmaking. You can find our channel@collective horology.com YouTube and of course, you can always support the podcast by picking up a watch from over a dozen independent Brands, along with our latest merch@collective horology.com thanks for listening and for your support. Now back to the show. So it's straightforward and as Armin always does, what they emphasize is the watchmaking and then exposing the elements that define the watchmaking on the dial side. So you, of course, you see the four hammers at the top of the dial. So the striking mode, the striking appears at the 12 o' clock position of the dial and then the resonance complication appears at. Or I guess it's not a complication, but the, you know, the resonance complication. Well, not a timing complication, but the, the resonance appears system, the escapements, they appear at the, the bottom half of the dial. So it's just extremely restrained and intentional in its, in its design. Killer, killer watch. This was the one watch where, you know, you'd have people kind of saying that they found what was on offer at the Plex Bow really kind of boring. Well, except for the Armin Straw minute repeater. That was, that was the refrain we heard. We heard quite often. So good. Good for those guys. It's, it's a watch that's both shocking and also not surprising. Knowing Armin strong like this is just what they do.
- [31:34]
A
Yeah, couldn't agree more. Pivoting over to the Villa Saracen, we went and had two meetings with Dominique Renault and Renault Tixier during. I want to talk about the Pulse 60, because that's the Dominic Renault Pulse 60, because that's a watch that we got to see finally. All the variants of in the metal.
- [31:53]
B
Well. And we can't talk too much about what we saw as far as what's coming next from Renault Tix. Yeah.
- [31:59]
A
But you know, one thing that I think is remarkable before we even just talk about the watch, when you look at the manufacturer, which is what it is now, is a manufacturer, Dominique Renault hhdr, which is essentially a version of the holding company model, but applied to independent watchmaking. And they're slowly growing the brands underneath that umbrella. So launching, of course, with Renault Tixier, then Dominique Renault, there's other projects that they're involved in.
- [32:27]
B
Yeah, they're an investor in Niton. Yeah, we saw as well. So they only have their own brands that they continue to work on, but they are supporting young and upcoming watchmakers.
- [32:36]
A
They're also supporting the supplier network too. So they really have this holistic perspective of how they want to grow a business. And when you think about it, it's really cool because you got a guy like Dominique Renault and a guy like certainly as it relates to one of their brands, Julian Tixier, you know, who understand how the business works, you know, and now they have the opportunity or Dominic has the opportunity to do things the way he wants to do them. You know, he's in, he's, I would imagine at this point he's in his 70s and he's able to say, like, look, I've been doing this for decades and I know how to do it. And you have a real sense of not only business, you know, being successful there, but also camaraderie. You know, we saw, you know, Dominic was there, Julian was there, you know, we, Michelle Nieto and Giancarlo and all the people who are involved in the brand, they're all there, you know, and there was a real sense of jubilance and joy in that space because I have to imagine it's incredibly gratifying to be able to see all of this stuff come to life and it certainly, as it relates to the pulse 60 to, to be able to, to revel in, in its successful launch.
- [33:39]
B
Yeah. It's also remarkable how far they've come as a business. The first time we met with Renault Tixier a couple years ago, it was like at an apartment.
- [33:45]
A
It wasn't a couple years, it was
- [33:46]
B
last year it was in an apartment in Geneva. And now this year they had the most impressive setup in, in the end Time watches. It multiple rooms dedicated to the brand.
- [33:58]
A
Really impressive or dedicated to the manufacturer, really.
- [34:01]
B
Yeah. And impressive build out. I mean they've, they've come a long way very quickly, which is a tribute to the success they've had. The way their watches, whether it's the Renault Tixier watches and the Dominique Renault, things have, have resonated and, and good for them. I mean it's, it's really impressive to see how they've managed to make, I mean, of course, Dominique Renault has been in the industry for a long time and Julien Tixier has been working with him and with others for quite a while. But as a, you know, concerted effort, as a business, it is really impressive to see what they've managed to do so quickly in independent watchmaking. Speaking of the pulse 60, so this
- [34:45]
A
is, you know, just really briefly, you know, the watch itself is a masterpiece on the wrist. I mean, look, I had the opportunity to play with a, a prototype of the white dial when the US President brought it through a couple months ago. We bought these watches and signed onto the brand off of drawings because we thought it was just, you know, the Bee's knees. From, from that standpoint, we're, we're so happy with what we saw from Renault Tixier, who we will talk about in the future, because, man, boy, do they have some, some incredible stuff coming up.
- [35:13]
B
One of the watches I'm the most stoked about.
- [35:16]
A
I mean, some of the things you
- [35:18]
B
can't talk about, but what's coming from Renault Tixier is mental.
- [35:22]
A
It's, it's. Aw. So anyway, putting that Aside, the pulse 60, you know, I got to finally see now the black dial and the gold and titanium model. And, you know, it's fabulous because all three of them just crush. And I think what's cool about it at a fundamental level is there's a lot to unpack there technically, if you want to, but if you don't want to, you can completely get the watch just with a quick glance, you know. And that balance wheel, it's another good
- [35:52]
B
thing about the, like, what Armin does so well with exposed mechanics. I think Dominique Renault has taken a card there. He executes things in, in very different ways, but like the pulse 60, that 1 Hz escapement is front and center on the dial. Even in, in the, some of the Renault Tixier, the watches, you know, the, the dancer comp. The dancer mechanism is exposed on the dial side. Right. So there's are cueing you into very quickly what is special about this watch at a glance. But especially in the case of that pulse 60, I mean, you just look at it and it's aesthetically just a really cool watch.
- [36:28]
A
Yeah. And it also just, it's just an improbable watch, you know, on so many levels. The way that the movement is designed, the way the watch is finished, the way the insanity of the size of that balance wheel, I mean, that watch is just a fantastic timepiece. And getting to see it in the metal and more importantly, getting to see clients, because there were clients at time to watch us too. Go hands on with it packed. Yeah, it was just fun to get people who are actually going hands on with something like that and equally excited as we were. So I am thrilled about that watch and I am incredibly happy to see what Dominique Renault is doing now. And this is only a couple years in, so Lord knows where we're going to be five years from now, both with Renault Dixier and with Dominique Renault, with whatever else they have up their sleeves. So, you know, it's cool to see someone who doesn't have an either or proposition with brands. These are additive and the man clearly is has no intention of stopping anytime soon.
- [37:27]
B
That's cool. I think the other thing that's really cool is an independent watchmaking. We're constantly thinking, and I think we're all guilty of this. Like, well, who's the next X, Y or Z? Who's the next Simone, Brett? Who's the next Recep Brigepe? You know, who's, who's the next Matt, Max, Booster, whatever it might be. You know, we're constantly looking for the next young, hot, up and coming watchmaker. Well, the next hot, young, up and coming watchmaker is Dominique Renault, guy in his 70s, who's been in the industry for, for decades. And there's something really sweet and really cool about that as well. And not only is he having his own success, he's bringing other folks along with him, whether it's Julian Tixier, who is a young, hot and up and coming watchmaker, or the folks at Niton. So. Right. It's an unusual approach and business model all together and one that's just really sweet and really cool to see.
- [38:20]
A
Yeah, man, it was awesome.
- [38:22]
B
There's still hope for us. You know, we could make it one day. All right. Well, gosh, speaking of, of really unusual and fresh designs where the complications are exposed on the dial side, I want to talk about the Singer reimagined dual track. This watch just does so much. I think one of the coolest things is like, look, I love GMT watches, I love travel watch watches, but so many of the watches in that category just retread kind of the same design cues. And, and this is watching cues over. To be clear, it's a dual time watch. I don't think we need to split hairs over this. It shows you time in two time zones.
- [39:01]
A
Yeah, but splitting a hair, it's an important distinction. Like, it's not. It's a watch you do have to reset when you go to a new time zone. But the thing about that is, is it when you have it on, it doesn't matter.
- [39:16]
B
Look, here's the deal. This watch has a very intuitive design, but also a design I've never seen before, which is you've got your local time at the center of the dial. Hours and minutes as you typically see it displayed. Very similar to the way the Singer Caballero displays time, or the heritage chronograph displays time, or the 1969 collection display time, hours and minutes and seconds. Very, very straightforward, Very clear. For the, the second time zone, there's a 24 hour disc that, that rotates around, around the Dial, it's enclosed, it's under the sapphire of the dial. And there's a button on the side of the watch at 9 o' clock that you can use to jump.
- [39:57]
A
Yeah, important distinction. Like it's an actual button. You know, in some of the photos it almost looks like a corrector and it's not.
- [40:02]
B
Yeah, you don't need a special tool or anything like that. I just. Yeah, you can jump it with your, with your finger. And so it's this watch that like manages of course to look like a singer. Like you look at that watch. If you took the, the name off the dial of the watch, if you took Singer off the dial of the watch, you'd know it's a singer.
- [40:19]
A
Totally.
- [40:19]
B
Unquestionably. It has a lot of the same aesthetics as some of the watches I just mentioned. And really also the, the Track One collection. So you know, it's a singer, but you also don't really need much instruction on how to read the time. I mean you look at the like the time is there and then you look at the disc and you're like, oh, the disc rotates, there's the marker. Okay. Yeah, this is the time. It's so straightforward, clean and intuitive, but so arresting, so fresh. Such a departure from what we'd expected. We had been tipped off before the show. Oh, singer's gonna have a dual time watch watch, you know, Be ready travel watch from Singer and like you start to imagine in your mind what, what that might look like or how it might be executed. It also has their, their caliber 4 their in house 4 barrel caliber, which itself is a horological masterpiece and really cool. We've, we've done a separate video on that and how that works on our, on our YouTube. But you imagine like, oh, I know the movement, I know the brand. I think I know what a GMT or a travel watch looks like. Okay. And then you see the thing and it's just so different from what you're expecting yet it just is intuitive and makes sense, which I love.
- [41:33]
A
Yeah. And there's one other thing to point out too, which is I have been racking my brain to try and think of another manufacturer who went in house and cut their overall average price by like 30 to 40%. Which is.
- [41:45]
B
That's a good point.
- [41:45]
A
You're an incredible thing.
- [41:46]
B
Yeah. Singer for years has been associated with the Agenor agengraph and other agent or movements and central chronograph, like that was their calling card. It was like they were to automotive of themes and the Central chronograph, like what her work is to like space and science fiction and like the wandering hours.
- [42:05]
A
You know, that's a good, you know,
- [42:06]
B
like that it's a Singer there. That's like, that was their shtick and they've broken out of that shtick completely. Doing heritage reissues, doing. In terms of like, not a heritage reissue, but like with the heritage chronograph, like doing what Singer does with cars, which is taking an incredible new old stock movement, fully reconditioning it and refinishing it and building a new watch around it. Doing the Caballero, a time only watch. Did anyone ever think they'd see a time only watch from Singer? And now doing this with the, with the dual track, taking it all in house in terms of the movement and delivering it at a significantly lower price point where they were in the first place. Most brands are trying to find ways to move up market and even if they don't have to, justifying a way to add more zeros to the end of a price.
- [42:53]
A
Marco could have priced this watch at $50,000 and it would have been a parody with a lot of the other watches he makes.
- [42:57]
B
But.
- [42:58]
A
But he didn't.
- [42:58]
B
Yeah. And he could have said, oh, well, you know, of course it. This is now our own in house movement. So. Of course. But no, they did absolutely the, the opposite. And, and good for them. And it shows you what this brand is about. It's not about luxury, positioning and all that. It's about creativity, about smart design, about true passion. I mean, Marco cares deeply, not just about watches, but the automotive inspiration that goes into his watches. And, and you just get that these are people that love what. They love what they do and love making beautiful and really cool things. And the dual track is a poster child for that.
- [43:38]
A
Amen.
- [43:39]
B
All right, what you got?
- [43:41]
A
Rounding it out? And this is as a nice palette cleanser. On the affordability side, our friends at Gaga Laboratorio released their next model, which is the Aqualab. I suppose we could call it a diver. It's. It is a. It is an aquatically themed watch.
- [43:57]
B
It is.
- [43:57]
A
Yeah.
- [43:57]
B
I think it's a dive.
- [43:58]
A
Yeah.
- [43:59]
B
Look, I don't know if like, it technically meets every ISO requirement or like, don't, don't come at us with that. But, you know, it's, it's a very unusual, very cool dive watch.
- [44:11]
A
The thing about Gaga Laboratorio and the reason why we started carrying them, you know, a year or two ago, is fundamentally they just have such a unique voice and they execute it. So wonderfully. And they are like nothing else on the market. Market. You know, there, there's a handful of brands like this. You know, like Holton Ricks falls into that same category too. It's like they just have a really good idea of who they are. And maybe that's for you, maybe it's not. You know, and that, and to me like that is a really, really good thing that polarization. But like we going into it is so much fun to go into a meeting where you see a watch and like, you know, you're not running numbers in your head. You're just like, you know what? Yeah, we'll take, we'll take X of those and Y of those and Z of it. Those like we're in. It's great. I love it. Send me watches. And to a certain degree like that was one of our shortest meetings. We went in, we looked at the watches, we photographed them. We're like this, this watch kills. And we just bought a bunch because they're awesome. And you know, you could, you could. To be honest, I don't even know what movements in that watch. I didn't even ask because it's utterly irrelevant to how awesome.
- [45:21]
B
It's a Lejoux Pere G100.
- [45:23]
A
Okay, great. Whatever. My point is, is like good movement.
- [45:26]
B
Yeah, sure.
- [45:27]
A
But also utterly irrelevant.
- [45:29]
B
Yeah. That's all that watch could be a
- [45:30]
A
hamster on a wheel in there. You know, like it doesn't matter. And that's because that watch is such an incredibly strong point of view. The other thing I'll say about it is it's, it's bigger than, than the
- [45:43]
B
labor matter 4 millimeters. But it's you know, 48 lug to lug.
- [45:47]
A
We'll have, we'll have pictures of this to share of course but it actually honestly on my, on my six and three quarter inch wrist. Wrist work great. Yeah.
- [45:55]
B
I think if anyone is familiar with the way like a sego turtle which is comparably.
- [46:00]
A
Oh yeah, that's a good example.
- [46:01]
B
Or like a doxa sub 300 is size. It's the same thing. It's a cushion style case and the dial is relatively small. It's the sculpting of the case that gives it and you know the, the lines of the case that give it its proportions. It could have been a smaller watch technically. Like you know that G100 movement could go into watches with 38 millimeters in size and prob. Smaller. So it's, it's a design choice. And believe me, these are folks who are Meticulous in their approach to design. Very careful and thoughtful about design. It's not big because they lack some sort of savvy. It's big because that's. Those are the proportions at which this watch and its design works best. And on the wrist it's an absolute treat. I would have had no IDEA it was 44 millimeters. If I didn't go into the meeting knowing that it was from the press release. I would have said like it's like 41, 40, 42. Right. Yeah. It wears incredibly well. Not just given its specs, it just wears incredibly well because of the, the lug to. Lug is relatively modest given the, the diameter A and B. It's a sculptural object on your wrist and it just, it just, it works. It's not trying to be something else. It's not trying to meet a spec sheet. They probably just designed the watch and figured out afterwards what the dimensions were. Yeah, because of what, because of what works. So if this is a, like scared by the, the sizing, don't be. I'll, I've got some wrist shots, honestly, I kind of want. They're really cool. I'll put some, I'll put a wrist shot or two in in the notes for this at collective horology.com blog so you can see what it looks like on a six and three quarter inch wrist. It's not a thing. It's great. It's. It's cool. Good for them. Yeah.
- [47:51]
A
That watch route, that watch that they
- [47:53]
B
tell rules, they tell you like a brand that comes out of the gate with something so distinct and arresting like the labor matic. And you're like, God, this thing is cool. And not from central casting. And they're like, oh, our next watch is a dive watch. You're like, oh, God, guys, really? But then because you're, you're worried like they're going to sand down the edges. Yeah. You know, not at all.
- [48:13]
A
No.
- [48:14]
B
And, and good for them.
- [48:15]
A
All right, bring us home my last one here.
- [48:17]
B
This is a watch I wasn't expecting to fall in love with. And it's the fierce Brunswick 40 filton, so. Oh yeah, good call. Yeah. This is, this is fears latest addition to the Brunswick 40 family. It's a pilot swatch. Yeah. And this is one of those watches where the, its presence in person is completely striking. I love these watches and usually they're pilots watches, but they can be in other categories. They're dive watches that do this too. But I love these watches where like you just Glance at them out of the corner of your eye and you immediately know what time it is. Like, it's just so legible. The contrast on the dial is so stark. This watch really works. It manages to both be instantly recognizable as a Fiers. It's got the Brunswick 40 cushion case, even has this pet hands, but more on that in a second. Uses the Edwin numerals. But it's also clearly identifiable as a pilot's watch. So if you took the Fiers logo off the dial of this watch and you showed it to anyone who knew anything about, about Fierce, they'd be, oh, that's some kind of fierce Brunswick 40. If you showed it to someone who had no idea what FIERCE was, they'd be like, I don't know what brand that is, but that's a pilot's watch for sure. But it, it doesn't look like, you know, there are so many pilots watches out there that look like an IWC pilot's watch in one way, shape or form. You know, they're derivative of that. The way they cue pilot's watch is basically aping that design. This doesn't do that at all. Like, even the, the hands. So like they use the fierce pipette shaped hands, but they gradually flare out toward the end, which makes them bolder, have more presence. They're filled with loom, so they work with. They also combine well with the big blocky Edwin numerals, which are loom filled. So it's like they managed to take something that's a design signature of Fears, tweak it, and then it just works in a whole new context in an in a whole new way. The other thing I didn't appreciate, I'm partial to the Raven black because again, it goes back to this idea of being like super stark and super legible. Very, very toolish. But the other watch, the other dial color they have is what they call squadron green, which is like this khaki green, which is quite, quite handsome. But I didn't realize this again from the press photos. So clearly the dial is a gradient dial.
- [50:46]
A
Oh, really?
- [50:47]
B
Yeah. And apparently that's taken from like. So Lee, who's the designer at Fears, went and looked through a ton of like British aviation and Royal Air Force history, and that gradient green is actually taken from delivery of Royal Air Force aircraft.
- [51:02]
A
Oh, that's interesting. So shout out to Liu and Rapati,
- [51:06]
B
by the way, incredibly talented guy. It just, it works on its own. It's like a beautiful gradient green dial that's got a level of interest that wouldn't be there if the dial was just flat. But it also ties into something, into the, you know, the, the story of the brand and their, their, you know, the provenance of the brand and being British and so, so I don't know, man. I, I, that was a watch that like, I, I went in most excited to see those pastel dollar dialed red cliffs, which are, which are great and a lot of fun, but very straightforward. And then I saw the Filton sitting there in the case and it was just like, bam. It's just so legible, so stark. It just jumps out of the vitrine at you the second you see it from across the room. Such a cool watch.
- [51:50]
A
Amen, man.
- [51:52]
B
All right, any honorable mentions? I, I mean, anything from the, from the, the show that stood out for you that you fell in love with, that everyone else covered but you just can't shut up about?
- [52:03]
A
I'm all set.
- [52:03]
B
I really like that, that Rolex op with the jubilee dial. Is that what they call it? The Rolex? Rolex? Rolex. Rolex. Rolex. It's just so, it's so chaotic. I just love it. Yeah.
- [52:15]
A
I mean, I guess if we want to go down that road that, like, on a personal level, you know, I, I've always had a thing for like ops, so I kind of like the one that's a, that's a neat watch,
- [52:25]
B
but that does nothing for me. Yeah. I just love the chaos of that jubilee.
- [52:30]
A
But I mean, if you're asking me, like, do I want, you know, like, where am I spending my money right now? Like, where. What am I buying? It's from this list of stuff.
- [52:36]
B
Yeah.
- [52:37]
A
You know, I'm particularly inclined towards that. Well, not just the aqua Lab, but the dual track, you know, like the dual track is I like, I like dual time watches, you know? Know. But I, so I, so I'm, I'm obviously gonna be leaning towards, you know, GMTs, dual times, you know, world timers, things like that. Just on a personal level. And I just, I just was into that and I would buy that over, you know, the, the, what were they calling the, the version of the Everest now? The, the Cardinal something.
- [53:09]
B
Cardinal something, yeah.
- [53:10]
A
Which is on the one hand, like, cool, because like, I've always liked the overseas and I've always been into, I always loved the Everest, you know, but I looked at that and I was like, man, there's gonna be thousands of happy clients, like 150 hopping mad clients.
- [53:24]
B
Yeah, well, they didn't do a black dial. It's like a brownish Grayish charcoal. Ish.
- [53:28]
A
But. But if you're at, you know. But yeah. Walking around the PAL Expo there, you know, there was nothing that I found super arresting myself. But in fairness, we also didn't spend a whole lot of time there.
- [53:40]
B
Probably Geneva, there's something else both you and I fell in love love with and that's Neo Vintage brigade. So as Asher likes to do, you copied me. We, we visited the Davidoff brothers in, in the old town. So the Davidoff brothers are of course world famous vintage dealers in, in Geneva, right across the street from the Mad Gallery, actually down the street from her work. But now Asher can't visit, can't visit Geneva without visiting the Davidoff brothers. You made an appointment with Roy and I figured this time I would, I would tag along and we. What an absolute treasure trove of vintage stuff. Yeah, really cool watches, unusual stuff. You had a bunch of kind of neo vintage Breguet stuff.
- [54:25]
A
Yeah, I mean I have a thing for like, you know, there's this like gap period from like the end of
- [54:30]
B
the Roth era before the Swatch era.
- [54:33]
A
Yeah. And there's some really great references in there. And I stumbled across the 3700 BA, which is a early version of the Horamundi World timer before it got like to the state it's in now. And I just loved it. So I bought that and, and then. Gabe.
- [54:49]
B
Well, I've never given much thought to, I've never given much thought to Breguet because my, obviously I know the general story of Breguet. I know the, the influence not just Abraham Louis Breguet has had on watchmaking, but Breguet as a brand has had on, on watchmaking. But the mod. I'm, I'm familiar mostly with the modern stuff and it just doesn't really do it for me. But being with you in Geneva and having a chance to go hands on with a bunch of vintage and neo vintage Breguet stuff from that Invest Corp era and the Daniel Roth era opened my eyes and I was like, holy smokes. This stuff is absolutely beautiful and it has everything or so many of the things that we pine over in the world of independent watchmaking, artisanal watchmaking. These are artisanal handmade watch watches from this era. And yeah, so I, I, not from the Davidoffs, but from another vintage dealer. So you picked up this watch. I fell in love with your Hora Mundi. It sent me down this Breguet rabbit hole. And then we went to Time to watches and one of the cool things they did this year they expand the, expanded the shows not just in the Villa Saracen but in the out outlying buildings of the, of the Villa Saracen as well. And in one of those outlying buildings they have a little cafe and a number of vintage dealers who are set up for the show. And I walk right in and what's in one of the cases Cases but a, A Breguet marine chronograph from the mid-1990s in, in yellow gold. And I had told you on the bus ride yeah to time to watches that morning man, if I can find one of the marine chronographs from the, from the 90s, I'd love to pick one up because of course you sent me down this rabbit hole and there it was staring me in the eye.
- [56:28]
A
I just find it hilarious that and I did it. Of all the various gold watches you could someday own own. The fact that you're wearing a Neo vintage Breguet just, just tickles my fancy.
- [56:41]
B
Never. It never would have occurred to me. It's my first gold watch. It's my first Breguet. Certainly not my first Neo vintage watch. Most of my collection is now Neo vintage watches.
- [56:50]
A
Well I wonder. We went out for dinner on, on Friday night as our very last appointment with Jean Marc Boris and Sebastian from Armin Strom. And Jean Marc of course was the North American president of Bret for almost 10 years years. And he must have thought we were trolling him by showing up to his dad.
- [57:06]
B
Both intentionally wore these watches from his time at Brigade just to.
- [57:09]
A
So no Jean Mar, we're not trolling
- [57:11]
B
you but yeah, no, I never, I never would have guessed any of that. But if I say I'm going to do it on the bus ride to the full expo and it I, I, I did it.
- [57:19]
A
Fair enough.
- [57:20]
B
Respect to you. If you say you're going to do something, you got to stand by your word. None of this I'd be in if only for whatever shall we call it there? All right, let's call it there. Man. What a. What a trip to Geneva. I think next time we go we're going to have to rethink our pacing and how we, how we handle all this. Probably add another day and bring more
- [57:39]
A
people and like an hour for the Davidoffs.
- [57:42]
B
And more time for the Davidoffs. All right, well thank you so much for listening. Open Work is of course a production of Collective Horology. You can find us online@collective horology.com if you spend some time on the site you can find plenty of watches that launched this last week in Geneva. And of course, get in touch. Send us your questions, your comments, your feedback suggestions. Please send those to us. We love to get them. We need show topic ideas, so give us yours. We will steal them with glee. And to do that you can email podcastollective horology.com. This is openwork. Look, why is that blinking red?