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Narrator
Foreign.
Pat Wright
Welcome to another edition of Opera for Everyone. I'm your host, Pat Wright.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And I'm Kathleen Van Dewell. Happy to be here, Kathleen.
Pat Wright
I am so happy you're here. And we have all long waited for this day because today we don't just allude to Romeo and Juliet. We get to face it head on with Gounod's opera, very famous opera, Romeo et Juliet.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes, this is what my time on the podcast has all been leading up to.
Pat Wright
Well, I haven't done a proper study, but I think that you probably have referred to Romeo and Juliet on every single show that we've talked about. There's always some echo that you find resonates with Romeo and Juliet.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Well, in my defense, such is the case in our culture. I would say it is probably the most referenced story, or if not the most, one of the most referenced stories of all time. Probably one of the most familiar to people across the world.
Pat Wright
Yeah, we won't have that conversation just yet, though. Maybe we will a little bit later. But this opera that we're going to talk about today is by Charles Gounod. It pretty premiered in 1867, the same year that Paris had a universal exposition. And there were things coming in from all over the place. Universal, maybe a bit grand, but it certainly was international. We did do one other opera by Charles Gano, the two of us. We did talk about his Faust, which is probably his most well known opera. Though honestly, in the places that I have been recently, I've seen more productions of Romeo and Juliet than I have seen of Faust. But long term, I think Faust has a little bit more popularity. But these are both very popular operas. Faust, which predated by about eight years in 1859, but it's the same two librettists, Jules Barbier and Michel Carre. But in this case, they get a lot of help from the French translations of Shakespeare's play Romeo and Juliet. Oh, I should mention that, should you want to hear us talking about Faust. That's episode 78 of Opera for everyone. Well, here we are. Romeo and Juliet and an opera that not perfectly but reasonably follows the Shakespeare play.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah, I would say it efficiently follows the Shakespeare plays. Maybe. Maybe the term I would use in a sense that it just cuts a lot of the extra out that's in the play. And I think that's fine. As I've mentioned, if you listen to previous podcast episodes where I've talked about Shakespeare, people used to be a lot more willing to just sort of cut whatever of Shakespeare. Didn't work with the particular production or adaptation they were working on. That is something that is a little less done today still with some plays. But it's much more common to see a full text of Romeo and Juliet these days. But they cut the things that don't work, they cut the characters they don't need and the heart of the story is still intact.
Pat Wright
Very much so. Very much so. Yeah, we spoke about that a little bit when we did Midsummer Night's Dream, the fact that it follows Shakespeare very closely, Britain's Midsummer Night's Dream. But there's a lot of cutting of the dialogue because it takes longer to sing things, for example. And maybe you want to boost something up with an aria that needs a little dramatic emphasis.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah. And sometimes the comedic relief that Shakespeare wrote into his plays doesn't translate as well into opera. Not that there are not comedic operas. Of course there are, but sometimes that seems a little out of place. Whereas in a spoken play for that particular audience, a comedic relief, a funny scene with a dog, was considered very necessary to keeping everyone's attention.
Pat Wright
Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Well, Romeo and Juliet, those famous star crossed lovers. Thank you, Shakespeare, for that line that we use all the time and so many others. When it begins, we don't really jump into our first scene. We have a prologue. I mean, we did in Shakespeare, I believe. What's the prologue all about? What's the point of having, in this case, the chorus talking to the audience before the show actually even begins?
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah, so a prologue is. It is meant to set up the audience for what they are about to. To see. It is all spoilers, basically, in our common parlance.
Pat Wright
If you could hold that in your head when you're in the depths of watching the details of the show.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah, but I mean, there's no, as we say, there's no spoilers in opera. There's really no spoilers in Shakespeare either, in the sense that he didn't use it in actually very many of his plays. In my mind, I would have said, oh, there's a prologue in every Shakespeare play. Because if you learn Shakespeare, the prologue is something you study intensely.
Pat Wright
Yeah, I can picture actors out in.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Front beforehand, but it's actually only five of his plays that he used prologues. But this is probably one of. Well, I'm gonna say this is probably the most famous prologue in the history of theater. And begins with the famous lines, two households, both alike in dignity.
Pat Wright
Yes.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And as I said, it lays out everything that is going to happen in a very short little paragraph. So there's no surprises. And a lot of Shakespeare's plays also have epilogues which function to say, here's what I told you was going to happen. I told you it was going to be there. So if you didn't like it, well, you were warned. Yeah, basically. And this play is no spoilers. Again, once again, you probably know this. It's a tragedy. It's very sad. And I think prologue tends to function as maybe sort of the same thing. When you and IPAC go to see an opera together, sometimes you want to know what's coming a little bit.
Pat Wright
That's why they hand you the program with the synopsis ahead of time. Yeah.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Especially if it's really hard on you or tragic. You just. It's a little bit easier to be prepared.
Pat Wright
Oh, so true. I think. Yeah, that's how I feel about Madame Butterfly. You don't want to walk into that one unprepared because I did that the very first time and I was sobbing so hard.
Kathleen Van Dewell
That is a good example.
Pat Wright
I could not REM in the theater without disturbing everyone else who was enjoying the beautiful music. So, yes, tragedy, it does help to be prepared for it.
Kathleen Van Dewell
It does. And it also. One of the interesting things about a prologue is it also functions as a narrative voice that is non charactered. There is no. It is omniscient. It is a narrator type figure. And that only exists in the prologue and epilogue. In this play, you don't have a narrator. You have characters that maybe function in that way sometimes. But that prologue always reminds me a little bit of like reading a Dickens novel where his voice is narrating everything. And not just his voice, but his judgment on what's happening in the characters and perspective. And that's the case with this prologue too, where Shakespeare is putting forward not only what's going to happen, but how he wants you to view it. That this is what's about to happen is a tragedy and the people involved are guilty of these two people's ultimate death. So it sets you up for what you're about to see in every way.
Pat Wright
Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like the prologue has a way of telling us, we know that this is an enduring story that has universal application. We know that from this vantage point where we are right now. But I feel like the prologue is saying, yes, this story has so many messages. Listen up, people. These, these two families who are both alike in dignity, but feuding with each other. Look at what these hatreds and these feuds and these contests. Look at the results of These things, because once you do get deep into the story, you are focusing on the main characters and what's happening to them. But this is setting us up to remember the context.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Indeed. And I do think it's interesting that that makes its way into the opera too. A prologue in an opera feels also a little unusual. Not something you see that much. But they kept it because it's become such a well known part of this play. And I think it's safe to assume that our listeners are probably aware of Romeo and Juliet. It is a very, very recognizable play and a recognizable story. Many of the turns of phrase, as you use, star crossed lovers that we use in common parlance, come from this play, originate here. And by the time this opera was performed, that was already the case. It was a very, very popular story and it has remained so and so. It makes sense to me that they would try to keep as much as possible the things that are very well known about it. I think it would have been difficult to remove something like a prologue without some protest.
Pat Wright
Yeah. Let's hear a little bit of this.
Narrator
Jesus.
Pat Wright
That was our narrative introduction, our prologue. We have set the scene and this same chorus now become guests at a party that's being thrown by Capulet, by Juliet's father.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. And here's a good example of what I mentioned earlier of sort of cutting the fat a little bit. I mean, that's a horrible thing to say about Shakespeare. There's no fat. It's all wonderful. But cutting where necessary or cutting where you can. In the actual play, there's a whole scene that opens this where we set up the main rivalry between these two families. It's a street fight and they're fighting each other physically with swords in the street. It gets broken up by the government who has broken up too many of these fights and, and says any more of these and I'm going to really bring the hammer down. And if you've seen west side Story. Oh, yes, very famous street fight scene at the very beginning echoes this. We skip ahead of that. We skip ahead of a scene where we introduce the parents of Juliet and they are talking about how they want to get her married to this count. So we, we go forward and we just start at the party, which honestly. Brilliant cutting that is. Let's jump right into the party.
Pat Wright
Well, I think there's also something to be said for the fact that this was not an entirely unknown story.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes.
Pat Wright
Among the general public at this point in time.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes, I agree. So there is a bit of shorthand. I I completely agree. But what you missed is mainly just that there's these two families, the Capulets and the Montagues. Juliet is a young, beautiful girl. She is a Capulet, and her mother and father want her to get married. The age situation is a little bit dicey for modern adaptations because she's meant to be 12 or 13. That would have been much less uncommon in the actual time period that this is supposed to be set. Most productions will age Juliet up just a little bit, so it's a little bit less.
Pat Wright
Make her like 16 to 17, something like that. Yeah, yeah.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And I would say sort of maturity wise. She's meant to be about what we would consider 16 or 17. Yeah. And they want her to marry this man, Paris, who she is sort of indifferent about. She's unsure about marriage. She doesn't have a very strong inclination one way or another. But she is a little, as we'll hear in a bit, she. She kind of. She wants to stay a child a little bit longer. I think she says in the opera, I want to stay in my springtime, which I think is a beautiful little line. But her parents are pretty much like, it's time we're throwing this party. You need to pay attention to this guy.
Pat Wright
I feel like they're able to. I mean, that is one of the goals of parents of a. Of a well born girl at this point. You want to make a good match for her, and if you can secure that, you do. Speaking of which, what is this time period that it is set in?
Kathleen Van Dewell
So the time period. It's not as easy a question to answer as it would seem. The story that Shakespeare took this from is actually from the third century. So you could say it's technically from the third century, but it's never performed as if it is. Shakespeare wrote this in the 16th century, late 16th century. And usually if you see it performed in a sort of quote unquote, traditional dress or traditional version, it is 16th century clothing. And I would say 16th century morales as well.
Pat Wright
Yeah. I had the sense of it being a Renaissance based story, even though I do know. And we will talk about further and further and further shows and further operas. Some of the operas that are created from the more original source material, not just Shakespeare. It's. Shakespeare does not invent this story. Shakespeare adapts this story.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. And I would say my last conditional on the 16th century. There is. It's the 16th century in the same sense that Bridgerton is the early 19th century. Like, it's not literally the 16th century in any Way, it feels like a sort of dream vision of the 16th century. And it's set in Verona, set in Italy, which is meant to be sort of this other place, you know, not England, this sort of more lush, southern, dramatic place where you can have bandidian feuds and rapiers at dawn and stuff like that.
Pat Wright
Okay. All right. So here we are, we're at this party. The father of Juliet is enjoying being a host to all his guests. Tell us a little bit about the characters we meet on stage.
Kathleen Van Dewell
So we actually first meet Tybalt, who is Juliet's older cousin. So it doesn't seem like there's a son, that the Capulets have a son. So Tybalt is sort of the heir, in a way. He's her cousin, but he's the oldest male of her generation. Of her generation. Yeah. And he is talking with Paris, who's this man that they want Juliet to marry. And he is sort of trying to wine and dine Paris, make sure that he's happy, and she schmooze him a little bit and say, oh, isn't. Isn't that girl over there so pretty? Juliet?
Pat Wright
Yeah. So is there any significance to Paris's name, mythologically speaking?
Kathleen Van Dewell
That's a good question. I mean, that's just pure speculation. It could be that he was referencing here another famous Paris, which is the Paris from the Iliad. Paris from the Iliad is the man who abducts Helen of Troy and starts the whole war thing. In this sense, it's possible that it's a reference to him. He is a lover. But Paris is actually painted here as more of. Gosh, how do I say this in a non mean way. He's a little bit of a bean counter. He's not very exciting. He's rich and he likes being rich. And he doesn't really have much of a personality until the very, very end of the play when we get a little bit of pathos around that character. But, yes, it could be a reference to Paris of the Iliad fame.
Pat Wright
Okay. Or maybe. Or maybe not. You're here. So I ask questions like this.
Kathleen Van Dewell
I'll give you my best guess when you do.
Pat Wright
Yeah. No, I mean, he's obviously important just as an element to make the plot work, that there has to be this guy who is going to get cast aside.
Kathleen Van Dewell
So then we meet the father of Juliet, just known as Capulet, and he's presenting Juliet. He introduces her to the party. This is sort of a coming out party for her in a way. In a way, because she's so young. This may be her first entrance into polite society, marriageable age, etc. And everybody, yes, everybody, but everybody begins complimenting her and singing about her beauty. And it's clear that she is the most beautiful woman at this ball, this masked ball, but that doesn't hide her beauty.
Pat Wright
No. And the masks can be in front of your face. They can come down when you're talking to a friend. But we're going to hear just a little bit of this excitement around seeing Juliet for the first time and Juliet's excitement in being in her beautiful dress and at this wonderful party.
Narrator
Ra.
Pat Wright
This is opera for everyone. And we are listening to. Well, that was just Juliet from Gounod's Romeo and Juliet by Charles gounod from the mid 19th century. And that was a lovely bit of soprano singing to introduce us to this young girl. She is a soprano, often a lyric soprano. Certainly there's bel canto elements, particularly in the beginning part of this opera. But once Juliet has let us know who she is, our story has to continue.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah. And the. The only thing I'd say about what we just heard too, is Juliet in the play and in the opera is very much positioned as she's poised on the edge of something. She's like a flower about to bloom. And that's very much connected to her age and her impending womanhood, her marriage, her change in status from a girl to a woman. But it also is narratively, she's poised on the edge of something big, which is meeting Romeo.
Pat Wright
Yes.
Kathleen Van Dewell
So that's a little breadcrumb dropped for us that when they talk about how something is coming for her. And quite literally, the song is called Something's Coming in West side Story. Yes.
Pat Wright
Yes.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Something is coming. And we're about to meet him.
Pat Wright
Yes.
Kathleen Van Dewell
So we shift here. We're still at the same party. We shift to the other side of this feud.
Pat Wright
The three masked men.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. Who will not be removing their masks because if they were seen, it would be bad news. The Montagues. Romeo is the son of the Montagues. He is sort of Tybalt's equivalent, although he's played as younger, more immature. And he is there with Mercutio, who's his sort of madcap friend. Cousin. Mercutio is probably one of the most fun characters to play in Shakespeare, at least I think so. He's kind of Falstaffian. He's this bon vivant and a little reckless and a little bit of a dreamer.
Pat Wright
Right. Because he will say, let's unmask. And Romeo's like, no, no, no, no, no.
Kathleen Van Dewell
We said. We said we weren't going to do that. And it's. It's Mercutio that's goaded him into coming to this party. They should not be there. If they were discovered, it would be a big deal. They are in enemy territory. But Romeo has been mooning over this woman, Rosaline, and the. The good word is she's going to be at this party. So Mercutio says, you can't just keep mooning around. Let's go find this girl.
Pat Wright
Mercutio sometimes feels like he just wants to skate near the edge.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Oh, yes, for sure. That will mark his character for the whole play. So we meet Romeo, but we don't really get a big Romeo impression first. What we first get is really an impression of who Mercutio is, interestingly enough. And that is the case in the play as well, because Shakespeare was persuaded to include this big, long monologue called the Queen Mab Speech for the actor that played Mercutio, because that actor thought he didn't have enough lines.
Pat Wright
Oh, it's so interesting. So, watching the opera, it had been a while since I'd seen Romeo and Juliet. I thought, this is a lovely song. This is a great piece. But why is this here?
Kathleen Van Dewell
Why is this here? Because it doesn't really make sense. It is this. It's sort of Midsummer Night's Dreamy. It's this. This long speech about fairies and about sort of the fairy world and the world of nonsense and things being turned on their head. And he is expressing this sort of dream, this dream that he had about this fairy. And this would be very recognizable to audiences in this time period when the opera is being performed, because fairies and the fairy world was something that was in a lot of literature, you see, like Christina Rossetti's Goblin Market. This kind of sounds similar to this, which was a very popular poem in England, a little bit later than this time. So we get this incredible speech and piece from Mercutio, which totally breaks up the action and slows everything down. But it is really worth listening to as well.
Pat Wright
Well, let's hear just a little sample of that. Well, those Montague boys, they're having fun at the Capulet party.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes, indeed. They are living it up. Talking about fairies. Yeah, but there is. There's an undercurrent, I would say, to their conversations and the merriment of Mercutio. There's an undercurrent of that. Something is coming and it's a little bit dark. The presentiment. I Think, or at least that's the foreshadowing we're meant to pick up on. I think that's where you get, once again, this Something's Coming song from the west side Story version of this story.
Pat Wright
And Romeo is not as joyful as his companions. And Mercutio notes that he says, oh, it's just because you didn't find Rosalind.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah, Romeo is an interesting character because he's very emotional and he's a little bit melancholic. And he isn't able to just brush things off the way that Mercutio is with merry making and et cetera. And that's something that will mark his character throughout the play. And when he meets Juliet, you see how they complement each other. One interesting thing that I noted in my research is the play itself, especially in the later 19th century, tended to have Romeo as a woman actress would play Romeo, because male actors of this time period didn't want to play Romeo because they thought he was too feminine, that he was too emotional, that he was just not masculine enough for them.
Pat Wright
Well, in earlier operas, and there are several in earlier operas, it's done as a trouser roll, but that was typical if you were depicting a man who was young, even a young lover. But that's normal opera strategy. That's not what happens here with Gounod. He's a tenor here. But most of the other Romeos that we're going to meet, when we talk about other Romeo and Juliet stories from earlier in the 19th century, those are trouser roles. So it will be women playing Romeo.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Which of course, is just. It's funny, the history of it, of course, because when Shakespeare performed this originally, it was all men. Juliet would have been performed by a boy, and Romeo by a male actor. And everything turns on its head and it's two women performing the role. But I just think that's interesting that it's not necessarily because that's tradition. It was just because really these sort of manly male actors didn't want to be Romeo because that role was not masculine enough for them. And Juliet is very much marked by more, I guess you would say, at the time period, like traditionally masculine traits. She's much more decisive, for instance, and more able to put her emotions aside and be logical. Of course, this is all pretty debunked now that those traits are gendered, but. So we have been spending time with Romeo and Mercutio. As I've said, there's some foreshadowing. But then the opera gives us the chance to really spend some time with Juliet. And this is not how the play does this. It goes straight into the meeting between the two of them.
Pat Wright
Well, we do get Romeo glancing. Just a quick comment that he makes. This celestial beauty who seems like a sunbeam in the night. Yes, but that's fleeting.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes, yes. No, he definitely notices. He definitely notices her.
Pat Wright
But Juliet's in her own world. She's like, Paris. Yeah, whatever. I'm loving this party. I just want to enjoy myself.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah. She just wants to enjoy herself without the pressures of marriage or how she's supposed to perform in front of men. And I love this aria because it gives her a chance to just be herself before she's connected to a man. We always know her as Romeo and Juliet.
Pat Wright
Right.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Not just Juliet, but this moment is all hers.
Pat Wright
Yeah. And there's an interesting story behind this particular Arrieta. They call it this lighter aria. It was originally written. The composers would typically create these originally with particular singers in mind. And the woman who was singing the part of Juliet was the wife of the impresario where it was going to be put on. And she had a harder time with some of the more difficult, heavily dramatic arias at the end of the show. And she wanted something. She was very capable bel canto singer, and so she wanted something lighter where she could really show off her bel canto abilities. And Gounod obliged by inserting this particular piece of music. And honestly, I love this one because it really sticks with me. Whenever I think of this opera, this is what I start humming in my brain.
Narrator
Sa ra.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Ra.
Pat Wright
We have well and truly met Juliet. You can just hear her dance when you listen to that piece.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. It's a waltz. It's in three, four time. Which, yeah, brings that dance feeling to it. It almost feels like she's dancing by herself, which, you know, I almost want to just leave her there. She's so happy.
Pat Wright
Yeah. It's tempting, but no, we cannot do that.
Kathleen Van Dewell
There would be no story if that was the case. Now it is time for her to meet her Romeo.
Pat Wright
Oh, yes.
Kathleen Van Dewell
So she finishes this beautiful Arrieta. And Romeo has been watching her and is very taken, and we know everybody is very taken with her. But Romeo, it's this particular intensity. And he asks his servant who's with him, Gregorio, who is that fair child? And Gregorio misunderstands him, perhaps willfully, and points out Juliet's maid, Gertrude, and says, oh, that's Gertrude.
Pat Wright
Well, okay, I'm not going to impugn Gregorio here. He's gesturing across A crowded room at these two women.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes, but, fair child, and you name the servant. I don't know.
Pat Wright
All right, you're probably right.
Kathleen Van Dewell
But it's very, very fortunate that he does because it keeps Romeo from the revelation of who this girl is. Because if he knew it was Juliet, he wouldn't have approached her.
Pat Wright
Right.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Because he's not reckless in the way that Mercutio is. So I doubt any of our story would have happened. So he thinks that this is Gertrude, and Romeo approaches her as she's about to leave and says, oh, you have to stay. I have to meet you. And then we get this beautiful duet between the two of them, which is the source material, one of the. One of the more famous scenes in theater history, and that is their first meeting and their first kiss.
Pat Wright
Yes. And it's the first of four love duets between these two characters, between our Romeo and our Juliet. One of the things you hear when people are discussing this opera is that its heart are these love duets. These four love duets. And this is our first one. And clearly the most innocent and full of expectation and just giddy joy.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah. And these four duets, too, neatly bracket our story. So we get sort of the four stages of love. We get the meeting, and then we get the wooing, and then we get the marriage bed, and then we get the death, the loss, the leaving. But here we have the very beginning of this love story.
Narrator
Sa. Sa.
Pat Wright
That was Juliet and Romeo from Charles Gould's 1867 opera, Romeo et Juliet. Well, what a meet. Cute.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah, they. They're funny. It's not very normal. They. They dance around each other literally and. And metaphorically during this duet and try to find excuses for why it's okay for them to kiss. There's this whole extended metaphor about lips being used for praying, but also for kissing. It's very adorable.
Pat Wright
Yes.
Kathleen Van Dewell
But they do finally embrace. And at that moment, someone's on his way. Yeah, well, so Romeo's taking his mask off at this point, too, which is easier for the smoochin part. Yeah. So somebody approaches, and it's Tippalt. And Tippalt is sort of the. You could. You could call him the villain of the piece. He's violent, he has a bad temper, and he's very protective of the family name and of Juliet as well. And so he's kind of the worst person to discover them. And when he comes up, he's coming towards them. Juliet says, oh, that's my cousin Tybalt. And Romeo knows who Tybalt is, so he says, what do you mean that's your cousin? Are you a Capulet?
Pat Wright
Uh. Oh, no.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And she says, yeah, I'm. I'm Lord Capulet's daughter. And he's like, oh, no. But it's too late.
Pat Wright
It's too late. They had that sweet song together.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And although Romeo scoots out of there pretty fast, Tybalt does recognize him. So we get this scene of once again, more foreshadowing, very dark foreshadowing, where Tybalt vows that he's not going to let this go, that this is an offense on his honor, that this man snuck in and then tried to seduce his cousin. And Juliet is responding, and she has this sort of famous line where she says, the grave might be my marriage bed, which will be quite almost literalized in this play. She knows that what they're playing with here is life or death. And her maturity as a character, I think, is really led by the fact that she does understand the stakes. Romeo does, but he doesn't. In a very direct way. Like, he knows they're playing with fire. He knows that there are bad consequences. But. But he's still. Well, you know, I just love you. Love will win out of her. Everything.
Pat Wright
Yes, but she is.
Kathleen Van Dewell
She knows that if things go wrong, that it is almost inevitable that there will be bloodshed and it may be them that die.
Pat Wright
Yeah. It's interesting because Tybalt, as you pointed out earlier, is the one who was trying to show Paris what a wonderful family. Don't you want to join us? We're so happy that you're going to marry Juliet. And Juliet is accustomed to essentially following the wishes of these strong male members of her family, which in a way, gives her that clarity and that maturity.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. And also sets up the fact that if she wants this relationship, she has to go completely alone and she has to completely eschew all male authority. And so, as we'll see, she does just that, and she has to become the captain of her own destiny entirely. And I think Juliet is such an interesting character because she. She is so good at that. She is methodical. She makes a plan. She says, this is what we're gonna do. This is how we're gonna do it. And Romeo is much more dreamy and just like, oh, you're so pretty. I love you so much. But that. That's for Act 2. We'll see how she. She handles this. But keep an eye on her, because she is a very forthright and mature character for her age and her gender at this time.
Pat Wright
Yeah. And I Do love this line from Romeo where he says, my very name is a crime in her eyes because he's not sure with her. Having learned of his true identity, which he wasn't really trying to hide. He thought her name was Gertrude, but once he realizes she knows that he's from this rival clan, he's not sure that she's going to feel the same way about him that he continues to feel about her.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Exactly. Which is why he has to follow her and have this forthcoming balcony scene.
Pat Wright
Yeah.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Just to make sure.
Pat Wright
Well, let's talk about the balcony scene or what sets the scene. For the balcony scene, we're going to end act one where we just were. And we're going to end up in the garden below Juliet's window.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. And at the beginning, we just see Juliet. She is on the balcony and she is pensive.
Pat Wright
She's thinking, getting a bit of fresh night air.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And I think she's there to be alone with her thoughts. As I've mentioned, this marks her character. She's very thoughtful and she takes the time needed to think through these situations. And at first, there's no dialogue from Juliet. She's just there and she's alone. Romeo has stolen into this garden because he is so enamored that he can't leave.
Pat Wright
Yeah.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And in the play, he says, can I go forward when my heart is here? He's just this quintessential lovestruck boy. And Mercutio and their friends are calling for Romeo because they can't find him. They're trying to leave. And Mercutio is making fun of him a little bit and saying, oh, he's just mooning around over this girl, just like Rosaline. And Romeo takes offense to this and says another famous line. He says he jests at scars that never felt a wound. He says, Mercutio can't understand me because he's never been in love. Not like this.
Pat Wright
Oh, dear. I mean, it's true, but. Oh, dear.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Oh, dear. I know everyone thinks they're the first person to fall in love, but he.
Pat Wright
Enlists the help of his page, Stefano.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. So Stefano puts together a ladder so that Romeo can scale this wall and actually get into the garden.
Pat Wright
What could go wrong?
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah, exactly. And so we just have this exchange where Romeo is seeing Juliet and he's anticipating his next move. And Mercutio and the chorus are setting the stage for us for, I will say, one of the most famous scenes in all visual history. I would say is fair to say the balcony scene from this play is. Yeah, quintessential Quintessential.
Pat Wright
Echoed in so many works of art, movies, plays, visual art, song, poem, etc. But soft, what light through yonder window breaks.
Narrator
Sa.
Pat Wright
Oh, Romeo, he is lovesick for his Juliet and excited by the light he sees. She is light.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. She is very famously compared to the moon. Here he says the moon herself is sick and pale with grief, that you're more beautiful than she is. Basically. That, like, the moon is just jealous of you. You're so, so beautiful.
Pat Wright
Yes. And in the most famous balcony scene, Juliet will appear on her balcony and wonder about Romeo, this man she has just met and fallen deeply in love with.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Oh.
Pat Wright
You'Re listening to Opera for everyone. And that was the famous scene of the balcony with Juliet and Romeo coming together, having previously met, but now they have a little time alone to confess their love and also their fears.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. And one of my favorite things about this scene is we get to see Romeo by himself, contemplating this relationship. And then we get to see Juliet by herself, contemplating this relationship. And we get to see Romeo watching Juliet contemplate as well.
Pat Wright
Yes.
Kathleen Van Dewell
So there's actually. For all the frenzy of young love, there's a lot of time and pause taken here to bask in this moment, which I always really appreciate. This is a long scene and. And we get to know our characters better by observing them when they think they're unobserved.
Pat Wright
Yes. And they have remarkable clarity where she is saying, even before he's made himself known, as he just did, refuse that fatal name which divides us, or I'll refuse mine. Like, she knows that it's a superficial, relatively superficial thing that is dividing them, that's keeping them apart.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes, it is superficial, but it's also identity.
Pat Wright
So I know superficial is probably not the right word for me to have chosen, but it's not core to their feelings.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Right. Right. If we could just get rid of our names, everything would be fine. If we were right, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. There you go.
Pat Wright
Very good.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah. And I mean, even here, she's smart enough to know that the answer is marriage, too. I mean, she says, I'll refuse my name. What she really means is, I'll take your name, I'll marry you, and then I won't be a Capulet anymore. But also, I think there's a little level of childlike naivete here where it isn't as easy as you can't just deny your identity. And as much as they will try to do that, as much as she will literally change her name by marrying him. It doesn't resolve it just by doing that.
Pat Wright
No, but we've got here Juliet wanting through the power of her strong, strong will to make that happen. I love how she. Again, she has clarity as he's being romantic and in love. She says, away with useless evasions. Do you love me? Are you trifling with me? She says, let's get real for just a moment.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah.
Pat Wright
I am throwing my heart to you, but I just want to make sure you're treasuring it the way I will treasure yours.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. And she is very good at protecting herself. In this scene, she says to him, if you don't mean marriage, get out of here.
Pat Wright
We're done.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Right? And we're leading up to the end of this scene. One of my favorite little moments in the play is they've kind of gone back and forth. They. They're mooning over each other. They're so happy, they're in love, blah, blah, blah. And then at the end, she's like, I gotta go. My parents are calling me. It's late.
Pat Wright
Yeah.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And he goes, will you leave me so unsatisfied? And she stops. And she looks at him and she says, exactly what satisfaction are you looking for tonight? She says, I'm sorry, what? We're not married.
Pat Wright
We haven't seen the priest yet, and.
Kathleen Van Dewell
It'S just this little bucket of cold water in a really lush, gushy scene.
Pat Wright
Yeah. And she's the one who first brings up the word marriage. He pledges faithfulness to her, but she says, come up with a plan to marry me. And we're good. We'll make it work. We'll figure it out.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah. I mean, what we know of Romeo is he doesn't seem like the most practical character in a lot of ways. We know he's mooned over this Rosalind character that he loved before, and he came to that ball looking for another woman. Like his constancy is not necessarily the most obvious. But she says, we've got the raw material here of our love, our attraction to each other, but we have to. We have to actually move and have a plan here. And that, once again, is what I love about her character. She's always the one who's planning. She's always the one who's got a scheme going.
Pat Wright
Yeah.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And Romeo is always the one who's kind of like, ah, can't we just, you know. Can we make out some more?
Pat Wright
Yeah, I want some satisfaction.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Exactly.
Pat Wright
Well, we have a little break in the time that Romeo and Juliet are speaking. Together because we need to be reminded that there are people who are looking for this intruder. This intruder, Romeo, he hasn't been found. They realized that some of the Montagues have infiltrated the party and they're trying to make sure they are scooted away. And they even speak with Gertrude, Juliet's nurse. And I love the contrast that we're going to get with Gertrude here in the beginning when they say to her, keep a lookout. And she's like, you better believe I'll keep a lookout. I will send him packing so smartly that he'll have no desire to ever try to come here again.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah, she's a, she's a good watchdog. And this, this character is in the play, she's known just as the nurse and she functions as a mother figure for Juliet. Juliet's actual mother is in this story, but is very status conscious is the thing she's trying to push her daughter into, which is marrying Paris. It doesn't really matter if that's what Juliet wants or not. Whereas the nurse is willing to cautiously enable this new relationship and will sort of help her out.
Pat Wright
But only she realizes that Juliet's heart is truly with Romeo at this point. She doesn't know it.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And if this guy is legit too, like she's not looking to enable a relationship that's going to leave Juliet heartbroken and pregnant. So she is very much on Juliet.
Pat Wright
Yeah, that's right. But Juliet fills her in. Juliet lets her know. And as we come to the end of Act 2, here we get a little more wonderful time between Romeo and Juliet where they can sing together and just enjoy the love that they found.
Kathleen Van Dewell
But as I mentioned earlier, she's got to go to bed, it's late. And they're looking for this intruder so they can't remain in this moment. So they have this long, beautiful, extended farewell scene and. And that is what we're about to play for you, Sid.
Narrator
Sa.
Pat Wright
You're listening to Opera for Everyone, a radio show and podcast that makes opera understandable, accessible and enjoyable for everyone. I'm your host today, Pat Wright, joined by special guest co host Kathleen Vandewille.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Opera for Everyone airs Sundays from 9 to 11am Mountain Time on 89.1 KHOS in Jackson, Wyoming. Gay Hol is Wyoming's only community radio station.
Pat Wright
If you like what you hear, please subscribe to the Opera for Everyone podcast. And when you go, you can find a rich trove of past episodes.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Stay with us. The second half of today's show is coming right up.
Pat Wright
Welcome back to the second half of opera for everyone. I'm your host, Pat Wright, and I'm joined today by Kathleen Vandewille.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Hi. Lovely to be here.
Pat Wright
Oh, I am always so happy for your help with, well, any opera, but Shakespeare in particular. And this Shakespeare opera, Romeo and Juliet, is on a topic that you refer to really as one of the key stories, dare I say, in Western culture.
Kathleen Van Dewell
I think you dare say.
Pat Wright
Okay, yeah, yeah. Before we carry on with our story or any other discussion, I would like to take a moment to thank the people who made this wonderful recording that we've been listening to today. This was recorded in 1995 with the chorus and orchestra of Capitol de Toulouse with Michel Plassant as the conductor.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Romeo is played by Roberto Alagna. Giulia is Angela Georgiou, Friar Lawrence or Frere. Laurent is Jose Van Damme. Stefano is Mariange Todorovich. Mercutio is Simon Keenly. Side Capulet played by Alain Fondari, Gertrude by Claire Larcher, and Tybalt by Daniel Galvez. Vallejo.
Pat Wright
Thank you everyone for this gorgeous music that we've been enjoying today. And thank you, Ms. Monsieur Gounod, and also to our librettas, Jules Barbier, Michel Carre, and needless to say, William Shakespeare himself.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes, thank you, Will.
Pat Wright
And just a quick comment. I think some of you may have heard me say before that Kathleen is not only wonderful to discuss opera with, she's wonderful on most other cultural topics. She writes a blog on substack called Constructive Criticism. And. And it's a wonderful way to think about or hear about new works that are out there and maybe some good reflections on older works that are out there as well. Kathleen, tell us a little bit more about Constructive Criticism.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah, that's a great way of describing it. I watch a lot and I read a lot and I get sort of a bee in my bonnet about a lot of things you do. So I use that as an outlet and I tend to publish some recommendations on Mondays when I'm being regular with it all. And on Wednesdays I try to publish more of an in depth piece, think piece, as it were, a little essay. And then on Fridays I'm now doing reviews of romance novels. So that's my latest kick that makes it sound like I publish a lot more than I do. It's not always as regular, but check it out. It's constructivecriticism.substack.com yes, Kathleen Vanderwyl, thank you.
Pat Wright
All right, it is time to recap what has happened in the first half our opera Helmet quiz. As we like to call it, though it's not really a quiz, because I think you've got this down solidly. The first two acts of a five act opera, by the way, this was truly a grand opera. Gounod was well established in Paris and this played well. It actually started at this universal exposition in 1867, but it moves from locale to locale and does end up at the Grand Opera House in Paris. Ultimately, would you mind, Kathleen, recapping Acts 1 and Acts 2? What we've done so far just to get everybody ready for, oh, my goodness, what's going to happen in the next three acts?
Kathleen Van Dewell
I don't mind at all. So Juliet is the young daughter of the Capulet family. Romeo is the young son of the Montague family and they meet at a masked ball at Juliet's house. Juliet is sort of coming out into the world as a woman at this party. She is being promised to this young noble man named Paris that she sort of doesn't really know and doesn't have very strong feelings about. No, Romeo is not supposed to be there. He is of a rival family to the Capulets. But he and his friend Mercutio sneak in just to see a woman named Rosaline, who they think is going to be there that Romeo has a crush on. But then he sees Juliet.
Pat Wright
Juliet, and everything changes.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Love at first sight. And everything has changed for him after that. There is another character we meet named Tybalt here who is Juliet's older cousin and is sort of the male head of the family of that generation. And he is very violent and does not like the fact that the Montagues have snuck into this party. So we're setting up this potential for violence between these two families. But then Romeo and Juliet have some time together. He follows her to her. Her balcony, to the garden beneath her room, and they pledge their love for each other and make plans to get married despite the fact that their families would not approve.
Pat Wright
Yeah. And we've just had the moment where parting is such sweet sorrow. And that brings us to Act 3 and Act 3. We are with a character that we have not yet met.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Indeed, we spoke earlier that Gertrude is sort of this mother figure for Juliet, a surrogate mother figure. Friar Lawrence is that for Romeo in a father figure sense? I would say.
Pat Wright
Yes.
Kathleen Van Dewell
We really never meet Romeo's actual father. In the text here, Friar Lawrence is a monk and he is a counselor of sorts to Romeo and is always sort of trying to keep him in check because Romeo tends to let his passions run away. With him.
Pat Wright
Yes. Friar Lawrence is. Of course, he's a base. Right. We've got this male authority figure of a certain force of wisdom. Yes, yes. So together, Romeo and Friar Laurence. It doesn't take long for Romeo to get to the point. He's not just there to talk about a new crush.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. In fact, one of the first things Friar Lawrence says when Romeo first brings this idea to him that he's got this new girlfriend that he wants to marry. He says, what about Rosalind? Like you were here just the other day, lamenting about how much he loved her. Like you don't remember this girl. What's going on? And of course, Romeo says, how dare you even mention her name?
Pat Wright
Banish her name. Well, it's not that long till Juliet shows up with Gertrude.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. And Friar Lawrence knows who Juliet is. Verona's a small world.
Pat Wright
Well, particularly among the highborne.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah. And Friar Laurence sees immediately that this is a problem. He says, what do you mean? Juliet Capulet. That's the Juliet you're talking about. And Friar Lawrence really acts as this voice of both wisdom, but also it's inevitable, the way that the action is set up. That youthful exuberance and love is always going to win out over the wisdom. So none of the characters that try to put barriers in their way are ever really successful in this story.
Pat Wright
Well, you get the sense that the care that Friar Lawrence and Gertrude show for the young people is really about them, and it doesn't have all this extraneous honor of families and societal pressures. They really care about these two young people.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah, absolutely. And Friar Lawrence agrees to marry them, and I think is at least happy that that is what Romeo intends, rather than just, oh, I have a crush on this girl. She's so beautiful. He likes the seriousness that Romeo is bringing to. To this. So he agrees that he will marry them right then and there.
Pat Wright
And needless to say, it's a beautiful, beautiful piece with this bass and our tenor and our soprano. This is Romeo and Juliet by Charles Gould on Opera for Everyone. And Romeo and Juliet are now officially married. They've said their vows and they've been blessed by Friar Lawrence. It's official. Happily ever after.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Sure. Yeah. Should we just stop here?
Pat Wright
Actually, the most recent production of this that I saw, this is where they put intermission. And I, of course, wouldn't leave, but I thought, well, I could just leave them so happy if I just stopped the show right now.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah, seriously. But unfortunately, we have to turn our lens away from them for a little while, actually.
Pat Wright
Yeah.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Out on the streets, see what else has been going on in their world while they've been infatuated with each other. And it's not great. So we move on to the servants, Stefano, Gregorio, and they are acting as proxies for these big families, the Montagues and the Capulets. And they are starting to snipe at each other in the street and always fighting. This is something that you see in the original play, that the first scene actually starts with a fight between two of the younger, lesser Capuletan Montagues.
Pat Wright
Just so you know what kind of world we're in.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah. So it's. It's every single, like, person in each of these families. It's very Mafia, like, actually, like, from the. The head to the. The lowest servant hates the other team.
Pat Wright
Yeah. They have to. They have to protect their own. It's about honor.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. Who knows? We never know what the cause of this enmity is, though, of course. And I think that's actually important for this story. By not knowing, it makes it seem so much more trivial. Like if we knew. Oh, so and so killed so and so back when. But it's just. It's just a fight that no one can remember how it even started.
Pat Wright
Yeah. The old feuds. Well, the servants start, and then a few of the named characters from the families will appear.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. There's a little bit of a fight brewing here. And then Mercutio comes in. And Mercutio, as we know from earlier, is a little bit more of a hothead. He's a little bit less controlled than some of the other characters. And he takes offense to the fact that these servants were fighting, and one of them was young, like a young boy, and he says, fight a man, basically. Like, don't try and fight my. My young servants.
Pat Wright
Yeah.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And then Mercutio is confronted by Tybalt.
Pat Wright
Who, once again, cousin of Juliet, is.
Kathleen Van Dewell
A bit of a troublemaker. And we go from this sort of play fight almost to now we're having a serious fight.
Pat Wright
Well, now we have these. The sort of the dominant men of their generation, the young men out on the street. The dominant man from the Capulets. The dominant man from the Montagues.
Kathleen Van Dewell
True, Except I would say it's not the dominant man from the Montagues. And that's important here. This isn't Romeo, you're right. It's Mercutio. And Mercutio is sort of like the fun, fun cousin. He might be a hothead, but it's not his job to protect the honor of the family. That's Romeo's job. But where is Romeo?
Pat Wright
That's off.
Kathleen Van Dewell
That is lover boy.
Pat Wright
Well, that's the question for them. They don't know. Yes, we know.
Kathleen Van Dewell
So he's off being lover boy. He's not there defending the honor. And so Mercutio takes that up because he's not there. And they start fighting and Romeo rushes in and tries to stop this fight.
Pat Wright
Yes. And oh, this one's the one that just tears at my heart because he's trying to make peace with Tybalt, saying he has reason to love Tybalt now that he is a cousin of Tybalt's through marriage, which he can't say that part, but Tybalt just. It does not compute in Tybalt's brain.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah. And Romeo understands that the first thing he does after he marries Juliet should not be fight somebody in her family.
Pat Wright
Right.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And so he. Yeah, as you said, he tries, but because he can't explain himself, it is of no use. And so Mercutio and Tybalt continue to fight. They're sword fighting and Romeo gets in the way and he tries to stop physically put his body between the two of them and it distracts Mercutio and Tybalt stabs Mercutio in that moment of distraction. And usually the way it's staged in the play is that quite literally Romeo has his arm up and Tybalt stabs like right under the arm. And so it's just this really heart wrenching moment where it is in some way partially Romeo's fault that this happens, that if he hadn't gotten involved, maybe Mercutio would have won the fight or it would have been broken up by the authorities. But. But he distracted everybody. And so here we are. So Mercutio is injured and Romeo is in agony. He loves this man. And the last thing that Mercutio is able to say is a plague on both your houses. He says, this is both of your faults.
Pat Wright
Right.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And that tears Romeo up inside. And that dramatically, I would say is really the climax of the play. It's right in the middle of the play and there's a bright line. There's no going back from this moment for any of these characters.
Pat Wright
No. And it's going to get worse. But yes. And it feels to me in a way like an echo or an embellishment on that prologue comment. These two houses, both alike in dignity or lack thereof, with Mercutio now stabbed, declaring a plague on both their houses, he staggers off stage and dies. And Romeo, the emotions in this man's body are just about to burst forth.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. And when I said there's a bright line, I really mean it in the sense that every character acts differently after this happens. And Romeo is the first and most prominent of that trend. So Romeo, he's a bit feckless. He's a lover. He's shown as just this passionate guy who just wants to have a good time and chase after the ladies. And now.
Pat Wright
Well, he's a married man now.
Kathleen Van Dewell
True. But it's not the marriage that changes him. It's this. It's the death. And he knows it's his fault. He knows it is his job to avenge Mercutio. And so he starts fighting Tybalt right then and there. And he is so full of rage that he kills Tybalt.
Pat Wright
Yes.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And then one of my other favorite moments in the play, he just drops to his knees and he says, I am fortune's fool.
Pat Wright
Right. Well, I mean, the emotions really do take. Like, he knows. Knows that that's the thing that's expected of him. It's the right thing to do. He's furious that his dear friend has been murdered in front of him, and probably even more furious because his actions may have caused that to happen.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. And then he himself has become a killer for the first time.
Pat Wright
Right. And Tybalt is stabbed and about to die. But before he dies, when Capulet comes in, patriarch of Tybalt's family, there's a moment when Capulet bends down and Tybalt says something to him, which we're not told at this moment, but will be told soon.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. So Tybalt takes care of whatever piece of business his last words needed to be there. And then we finally, for the first time, really, in this opera, we finally get some authority figures that come in and say, what's going on here? This has to stop. And we get the figure of the Duke.
Pat Wright
The trumpets sound and the Duke enters. The Duke has entered onto the streets of Verona amongst these very agitated, upset clans out there, the Montagues and the Capulets, here in Charles Gou, Romeo and Juliet. And he's the authority figure.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes, he's the leader. He's the king, basically, in this instance. And he's decided this has gone on long enough in the. The play. He's there at the beginning, too, because there's a fight at the beginning of the play. And he says, basically, like, if I see you guys out here fighting again, I'm gonna get angry, is kind of what he says in the play. Yeah, I'm Paraphrasing. In the play, this is the second time he's had to break this up. So he's. He's done with this, he's had it. And he banishes Romeo from the city.
Pat Wright
It's interesting because he says, I myself may be a victim or I may fall. There may be peril for me in all of this arguing and discord in my territory. You guys have to knock it off. And I'm going to take steps to make sure, Romeo, you deserve death. But because you didn't start this whole mess, I understand you must be exiled. You've got to go. You cannot be here anymore.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. And to Romeo, this is almost worse than death, because he will never be able to see Juliet again, is how he sees it. And that is how we end Act 3, with Romeo's banishment and his despair at never being able to see his wife again.
Pat Wright
Yeah, this repeated over and over again. Romeo, the Duke, the Montagues, the Capulets, they all say, ah, day of mourning and horror and alarms. And the grief is palpable. And there is a very big coral finish here to Act 3, as everyone is thrown into grief and despair.
Narrator
Ra Sat.
Pat Wright
This is opera for everyone. And we're listening to Romeo and Juliet by Charles Gounod. And we've just finished the third act of the five act opera. Everyone's in mourning. They both lost important people in their families, Tybalt and Mercutio. But Romeo is in particular despair because he's been exiled.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. And what we get here is we come in and Romeo and Juliet are together and they are talking about what has happened, and they have already gotten to a place of forgiveness with each other. Juliet's first words here are, come, I have forgiven you.
Pat Wright
Yes.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Which I understand for length purposes makes sense, but there's a lot that gets cut here. And I think it's really interesting how the play handles this.
Pat Wright
Oh, you mean from the play? Because this has all happened offstage and we've just moved on to I love you no matter what. Right.
Kathleen Van Dewell
So there are several scenes, most of this act is actually taken up with getting to this point in the play. And one of my favorite scenes in the whole play is act three, scene two, which is just Juliet and her nurse. And she is waiting for Romeo to come to her for their wedding night. But she doesn't know what's happened. She doesn't know about Mercutio or Tybalt. And she is sitting there on her balcony. Once again, we get her alone, we watch her unobserved and she is saying, I just really want Romeo to come to me. And she's this beautiful monologue about why she wants him, how she loves him, and how excited she is about their life together.
Pat Wright
Yeah. Oh, that's heartbreaking.
Kathleen Van Dewell
It is. Of course, he had to twist the knife just a little more. And then her nurse comes in and says, here's what happened. She says, I gotta tell you right away.
Pat Wright
The demons always know first.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah. She says, tybalt is dead, Romeo has killed him, and Romeo has been banished. So all of your plans are not gonna work out here. And Juliet loved Tybalt as a cousin, you know, was close to him. And I love this scene because it gives Juliet such a chance to be angry at Romeo. She is so mad that he did this. She can't believe that he killed somebody that she loved, that this is the thing that he did right when they got married that they won't be able to be together. And so she really has. Has a chance to vent her feelings.
Pat Wright
But not in this opera.
Kathleen Van Dewell
No. So it kind of. Yeah. And I almost felt like when I. When I saw this part in the opera, and it just starts with, oh, I've forgiven you. It's all fine. I was like, no, let her have her rage. I love that she gets to be upset. And then there's also a scene where Romeo discusses this with Friar Lawrence and gets to be upset on his own. And then finally we get a scene where the lovers are together. And in this opera, we come to that. That bridal duet. So as I said at the beginning, we get these different duets. We get the. We've. We've seen. Seen each other for the first time duet. We get the we've pledged our love duet. And now we get the. The marriage. The marriage bed duet.
Pat Wright
Yes. O bridal night, Sweet night of love.
Narrator
Sa Ra.
Pat Wright
Romeo and Juliet are spending their bridal night together in spite of the dark clouds that hang over.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. And it's really important that this scene is here. There's actually not that many scenes in Shakespeare of like that we know two people are having sex or have had. But here it's important because their marriage has to be consummated to be a real marriage. And that will be important later on as to why she can't marry somebody else. For instance, so they're lying in bed afterwards and they are listening to the birds that they are starting to hear outside because it's morning. And she is saying, oh, you've got to go hear the lark, the bird that first sings in the morning. And then they have this lovely little argument about whether it's the lark or the nightingale. Because if it's the nightingale, it's the middle of the night, we can stay together. But if it's the lark, then he has to leave because he's not supposed to be here anyway. And they sing about how they don't want to leave each other, but they must. And there's a very dark tinge to the end of this scene where they say, fate is more cruel than death here, because fate is what is severing us, is keeping us apart. And she says, farewell, my soul, farewell, my life. Then they part. And I don't mind saying this is the last time they'll really spend any time together in their lives. The next time they meet, it will be.
Pat Wright
Well, we do have another duet. But, yes, it'll be bittersweet, mostly bitter.
Kathleen Van Dewell
It will quite literally be in a tomb at that point. So as soon as he leaves, very well timed, the nurse comes bustling in and her father comes in and says, oh, you've got to get up because we have to move on. Tybalt had a final wish for you, Juliet.
Pat Wright
This is what the whispering was about.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And it's that you marry Paris, the man that we all wanted you to marry anyway. So very convenient that Tybalt agreed. And Juliet is of course, shocked. And Friar Laurence is there as well.
Pat Wright
Because the father has called him in. Hey, you need to perform a marriage.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Exactly. So we have these four characters. We have Gertrude, Juliet, Friar Lawrence and Capulet, Juliet's father. And they are singing about how everything is ready for this marriage. And Tybalt, his ghost, approves this. It is the will of the dead. It's the will of God. And Juliet, poor Juliet, is trying to stay faithful to Romeo. She's literally just left him. But fate feels like it's overwhelming her.
Narrator
Race.
Pat Wright
In all of this consternation, Juliet does look to Friar Lawrence for some comfort, because she knows that Friar Lawrence knows she, of course, can't marry another man. She's already married.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. And interestingly, in the play, in the source material, she actually says no to her father at this point. She says she won't marry Paris. And she doesn't give him a reason. But she says, I. I won't do it. And this is a huge fight moment where he basically threatens to disown her if she doesn't do what he says. We don't have that here. We have her.
Pat Wright
We don't have the words, but the body language is Saying that.
Kathleen Van Dewell
True, true. But we. We have her more sort of pretending like she's acquiescing until she can figure out what her next move is. And then, yes, she says, you have to help me to. To Friar Lawrence. And. And he does have to help her, because he. He can't make her a bigamist. He knows that she's married and that it's consummated, so it's his duty to protect the marriage of these two people. And also, he cares about them, so he does try to help her.
Pat Wright
Right. Well. And thank goodness, here, Capulet says, the guests are coming. I have to deal with my guests. He departs, Gertrude departs, and Juliet has a few moments to speak freely with Friar Laurence. And this is when the plan will be revealed.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And I'll say it here. It's a weird plan, definitely. You could think, oh, maybe he's gonna put her in the back of his buggy and they can take off and go hide some, you know?
Pat Wright
But no, it's not that kind of escape.
Kathleen Van Dewell
He says, I have the answer. I have this potion that you can drink.
Pat Wright
I happen to be an amateur chemist.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah, exactly. Which, honestly, stuff like this pops up in Shakespeare. It seems a little weird to us today, but it would have seemed more normal, I think, in the time. So there's this sort of dramatic solution, which is he has a sleeping potion that, if she takes it, it's going to make her fall into a deep sleep, basically a coma, but she'll seem dead to everybody around her. And so the plan is she takes this potion, and then she will fall dead and be sent to a tomb. And then Friar Lawrence is going to send a messenger to tell Romeo to meet her there at that tomb. And then from there, they can run away. What could go wrong?
Pat Wright
But, yeah, another one of those moments, they're like, it's a great plan. Well, it turns out that there are some things that can go wrong. But right now, the concern is that he wants to know if she is too frightened to take this course of action. Does it trouble you that you're doing this? Do you think you can? And it does trouble her.
Kathleen Van Dewell
It does. It troubles her from the fear of it. Because there's no guarantee that this potion won't kill her in a way, too. But what, you know, what I think probably troubles her more is that she will have to fake her death to the people she loves. There is no option for her to say, guys, actually, I'm already married. You need to accept him, et cetera. Like that's. Not gonna happen.
Pat Wright
No.
Kathleen Van Dewell
There's too many things that have told us that's not gonna ever happen, including his banishment. So she knows that she has to break the hearts of everybody who loves her. She'll never see her father or mother again. She'll never see Gertrude or Lawrence again. And Paris, who she doesn't want to marry. He's still not a bad guy. He's never painted as like a bad character.
Pat Wright
Yeah. He's just a non entity, honestly. Right.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And she will have to really freak everybody out, basically by appearing as if she's died at her own wedding. But she is strong enough and brave enough to take this step.
Pat Wright
Yeah. And she's also thinking a little bit about the reality of, okay, well, when I wake up from this supposed death, I will have been put in a tomb. It's a frightening place to be. The body of Tybalt will be there, of course. So it's a deeply frightening result that she's going to have to deal with. And once Friar Laurence departs, she is going to have this, what's known now as the potion aria that she sings. And this is the aria I referred to earlier in the episode where the soprano, the wife of the empresario, who actually did very well for Gounod, she was the original Marguerite in Faust, and she starred in a number of the Gounod operas, but she was more of a coloratura soprano, not the dramatic soprano. And the demands of this aria are great. So she said, no, you're going to have to just kind of cut that down. Cut that out. And then she did the happy aria about being in the party and living in this beautiful dream, which. It's a beautiful aria, but it's only in recent decades that this aria has come back into commonly being included. But it takes quite a. An able soprano to handle this aria as well. It's known as the potion aria, and it's a real showstopper where she is holding this vial, this potion, that's going to make her to appear to be dead. And it's all the internal thoughts that she's having about waking up in the tomb and appearing to be dead. And the difficult decision we know she's going to make to take the potion.
Narrator
Sam, you.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Ra.
Pat Wright
Oh, poor Juliet. That. That was rough. That was dramatic. But at the end of it all, she does indeed take the potion that Friar Laurence gave her. The scene has ended, but the next scene is going to burst forth. As it's time for the wedding.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. Everybody is getting ready and Wishing her well. There's this marriage song where everyone in the Capulet household sings about how wonderful it is she's getting married. But Juliet, Gertrude, and Friar Laurence, who know the truth, are singing more about how we hope that this all works out.
Pat Wright
Yeah.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And then we get to the marriage, and I have to say that I like this better than the Shakespeare version. First time I say that that's significant. So in the Shakespeare version, she takes the potion alone in her bedroom, and the next thing that we know, the nurse finds her and is like, oh, my God, she's dead. So we don't actually see anything happen.
Pat Wright
Oh, this is a slightly slower acting potion here in the opera.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. That seems like a lot of poison is in an opera. Yeah. So she's taken the potion, and she is standing there ready to get married. She is wearing a wedding veil, and she is about to have the ring put on her finger by Paris. Bridegroom is there, and she says she's starting to feel the effects of the potion. She says, let the grave be my wedding bed. I'd rather be dead. And she takes off her bridal veil. Her hair comes falling down, and she faints dramatically. And I love. You know, I love a crazy wedding. God, wrong scene.
Pat Wright
Yeah, this would count.
Kathleen Van Dewell
I'm thinking of specifically Lucia de Lammermoor, but I like this. I think it's very dramatic to have it happen right here. She falls. She falls into the arms of her father. And Capulet is struck with grief and horror. He doesn't know what's happening. No one does. And it ends the act with just this calamity of Juliet's death, supposed death.
Narrator
Mortar. Martin.
Pat Wright
This is opera for everyone. And I'm here with Kathleen Vanderwil. And Kathleen. Oh, this story. This story that is such a touchstone in Western art, literature, music, ballet, you name it. We're rounding to our finish here. We have finished Act 4 of this opera. Juliet has fallen down in her wedding and presumed dead.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Well, Act 5 opens with one of the most important scenes in the entire story, and it is very fast, and it is usually given very short shrift. So I'm gonna talk about it here. Yeah.
Pat Wright
Pay att.
Kathleen Van Dewell
So there's one thing narratively that this entire story hinges on, and it is a letter getting to the right person. And Shakespeare loves to do this, and it is so mean, but he has the letter go astray. So it's the letter from Friar Laurence to Romeo that tells him, what is this plan with Juliet and the potion and the supposed death? So without this letter, Romeo has no idea what the plan is. He doesn't know that she's not really dead.
Pat Wright
Isn't there a plague that intervenes, that they close some borders? So. So the messenger can't get through.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes, in the original source material, that is why in this, it's that the messenger gets killed by the Capulets. So it's even more directly, you know.
Pat Wright
Okay, the Capulets fault.
Kathleen Van Dewell
The Capulets fault. But I kind of like it with the original, where it has nothing to do with this story. It's just sometimes letters go astray in 16th century Italy.
Pat Wright
Absolutely.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And everything depends on this. But we find out in the scene that the letter has missed him. And it's so heart wrenching because you really feel like this is the last moment where you could have saved this story where it could have not been a tragedy.
Pat Wright
I just got chills as you were talking about that. I know those stories so well. But it gives me goosebumps.
Kathleen Van Dewell
I always do. And I love many of the movie versions of this, but I particularly love the Baz Luhrmann version. And I remember I always pause it right here and I'm like, please, get the letter. You know, I just want it to be different this time. Of course, it never is. So we find out here that he has not gotten the letter. Friar Laurence is going to try and send another letter, but it will not reach him in time. So just a quick little scene, but an important one because fate is not on their side.
Pat Wright
Yeah. We have to understand why the next bit happens as it does. Well, the next scene, we're not with Friar Laurence finding out about the letter gone astray. We are in the tomb, the tomb of the Capulets. And Juliet's body is laying out center stage, as far as we're concerned for our opera. And she is dead. Asleep.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes, Juliet is sleeping. And Romeo is going to come to the tomb and pry it open with a crowbar so he can go inside.
Pat Wright
And be with her because he's heard that she's dead. At this point, he was supposed to meet up with her elsewhere, but he believes, oh, that's not gonna happen anymore. She's dead.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. So he goes to the tomb, and in the original source material, Paris has also gone to the tomb to mourn Juliet. And this is where I kind of have a soft spot in my heart for the character of Paris because he's such a non entity. But then at the end, he so genuinely mourns her. He's so upset that she's Died. And he goes there just to mourn. And he's really not involved. Like, he's not a Capulet. He's just some guy. And he gets killed. In this scene, Romeo kills him because Paris is so mad to see Romeo there. He's like, what are you doing here? You know, this is the tomb of your enemy. How dare you come here? And Romeo tries to sort of talk it out with him, but they start fighting. And it's just another stain on Romeo's conscience that he slays somebody who's completely innocent in this entire thing. And that's the first, like, really innocent death. Everybody else that's died has been part of the conflict, but Paris is just. He's just a guy.
Pat Wright
Yeah, well, that doesn't happen in the Opera.
Kathleen Van Dewell
It doesn't.
Pat Wright
Paris.
Kathleen Van Dewell
It doesn't. I actually think it's important. I kind of am sorry that they cut it just because it shows how much the poison of this enmity has spilled over into the rest of the populace. And it makes the ending where, in original source material, the Duke comes back in and is like, this has really infected my city, and I'm gonna put a final stop to this.
Pat Wright
Yeah, we just get that in the middle when he's exiling Romeo, but not here in the outro.
Kathleen Van Dewell
So I think keeping that perspective, that it's overrun the borders of this family, I think is important, but for our purposes, they leave that out, which is fine, because it gives us a lot of time to really focus on our two main characters here. Romeo is looking around this place in the opera. He says it's so gloomy, so silent, and that it's wrong that the person he loves should be resting in this tomb. She should be in the mansion of heaven, he says. And he walks over to her body, and he's talking about how beautiful she still is, that even in death, she looks like she's asleep, honestly.
Pat Wright
Yeah. So as he's looking at her, one of the things he says is, I shall rest beside her.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes. And this is in the. In the play. There's more setup here where we have a scene where Romeo actually goes to an apothecary and gets a poison. Just in case Juliet is truly dead. He doesn't want to live, so he has the poison with him. And when he is satisfied she truly is dead, he said his farewells to her. He takes out the poison and he drinks it. And he says to you, my Juliet.
Pat Wright
Yeah.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And of course, as soon as this happens, of course, her potion wears off. Perfect timing. And she Wakes up and she says, where am I? And Romeo is still alive enough to.
Pat Wright
Realize his potion has not yet taken effect.
Kathleen Van Dewell
But it's poison. He can't go back from it.
Pat Wright
Yeah, it's not the same.
Kathleen Van Dewell
You have this small crossover moment, which is. This is a little bit different. This just doesn't happen exactly in the play. In the play, it's more like he drinks the poison and then she wakes up and then he's dead. But they have this scene where they get to be together for just a few minutes. And he doesn't tell her that he's taken the poison at first. He just says, let's leave together, let's run away.
Pat Wright
And she's thinks everything's worked out according to plan.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah. So it's honestly like a little bit worse. It's a little more sad. And they talk about how they're going to be together, but then the poison starts to take effect.
Pat Wright
It's hard every single time.
Kathleen Van Dewell
It is, it is.
Pat Wright
Because it's just so almost gonna happen. Of course, something else would happen if poison didn't do. But this is where we get our fourth of these duets in this opera, famous for its duets between the two main characters.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yes, we get the death duet. And he says in this. He says this dream, this love was too beautiful almost for this world, but love can survive death and we will be together ultimately. And so he repeats this, the lark and the nightingale motif, where he says the lark is telling us it's morning. And then he says, no, it really is the nightingale. It's the end. And then we get a very interesting moment with Juliet where she tries to take the poison as well, and there's nothing left in the flask. And so she says, that's okay, I've got my dagger. And so she. She stabs herself and he is once again still alive here enough to see that she's done that and say, you know, what have you done? But she says, I want to be with you. And it's wrenching. It's. It's interesting to think about the different methods, though. Poison is sort of traditionally like stereotype is like it's a woman's weapon.
Pat Wright
Lucretia Borgia.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Right, exactly. And a dagger is very masculine, coded. But it is Juliet who does the harder death. And she has the bravery to not only come armed with a dagger, but also to do the harder thing in this moment and kill herself in the more masculine. I say with heavy, heavy quotes there way once again. She is always the character who is willing to do the Harder, braver thing. And then they ask God to forgive them.
Pat Wright
That is the final bit. They ask for God's forgiveness. Now, in the play, this is the end of opera. Boom. And we will play some of that music for you all. But in the play, there's more.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah, in the play, as we've alluded to, there is the reintroduction of this duke figure who comes in and says, you guys have ruined these people's lives. He blames the older generation, the Capulet and Montague patriarchs, for their children's death. He says, a glooming peace this morning with it brings the sun for sorrow will not show his head. Go hence to have more talk of these sad things. Some shall be pardoned and some punished. So he's saying, I am going to finally intervene and this is going to be the end of it. And if we hearken back to our original prologue, the story that we are told that we are about to see, that prologue ends with a pair of star crossed lovers take their life, whose misadventured piteous overthrows doth with their death bury their parents strife. The idea is they really are the end of the line with this feud. But that's the only thing that could end it. The prologue says the continuance of their parents rage, which but their children's end nothing could remove. So only with this sacrifice of their children could remove.
Pat Wright
Yeah, the sacrifice of the innocents. That is a common theme throughout.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Yeah.
Pat Wright
And yeah, these are the innocents who've been sacrificed to this horrible hatred.
Kathleen Van Dewell
And, you know, I think maybe that's part of why this story endures. Like it's this story of love, but it's also a story of. Yeah. How this innocent, beautiful love couldn't flourish in the world that it was planted in. In a way that the only barrier to them being together was a society that was already diseased, was sick, and it is with their death that that disease is removed by authority asserting itself. So it's. It's actually a play, honestly, about order, about the desire for order and the fact that only in a world that's truly in order can love flourish.
Pat Wright
Right. Well, I've mentioned a number of times as we've spoken, how prevalent this is in art. You've certainly referred to it a lot when we're talking about other stories, that there are echoes of Romeo and Juliet. And I'm just going to drop a little hint, which I think I dropped earlier as well, that there are other Romeo and Juliet operas out there. There are some musical pieces that we'll we'll see if we can visit those and talk about them here on Opera For Everyone. Kathleen Vanderwyl, thank you so much for being with me today to talk about Romeo and Juliet.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Thank you for having me. And I encourage everyone to go watch something. Happy Now?
Pat Wright
Oh, indeed, indeed. Well, we'll listen to a bit of this final dramatic piece of music from Gounod's Romeo and Juliet. La.
Kathleen Van Dewell
No.
Narrator
Sa ra.
Pat Wright
Thanks for listening to another episode of Opera for Everyone. I've been your host today, Pat Wright.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Joined by Kathleen Vandewille.
Pat Wright
If you've enjoyed our show and would like to hear more, please subscribe to the Opera for Everyone podcast. Opera can be challenging, but everyone loves.
Kathleen Van Dewell
A good story, and a story set.
Pat Wright
To music is even better.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Our mission is to make opera understandable, accessible, and enjoyable because we believe opera is for everyone.
Opera For Everyone: Episode 120 – Gounod's Roméo et Juliette
Release Date: July 21, 2024
Hosts:
Pat Wright
Kathleen Van Dewell
In Episode 120 of Opera For Everyone, host Pat Wright and co-host Kathleen Van Dewell delve into Charles Gounod's renowned opera, Roméo et Juliette. This episode offers an in-depth exploration of the opera's adaptation of Shakespeare's classic tragedy, highlighting key scenes, character dynamics, and the musical nuances that make Gounod's rendition both accessible and enthralling.
Roméo et Juliette premiered in 1867, the same year as the Paris Universal Exposition, marking a period of international cultural exchange. Despite being overshadowed by Gounod's more famous Faust, Roméo et Juliette has maintained popularity, especially in recent productions.
Pat Wright [00:40]: "We have talked about his Faust, which is probably his most well-known opera. Though honestly, in the places that I have been recently, I've seen more productions of Romeo and Juliet than I have seen of Faust."
The opera closely follows Shakespeare's narrative but with necessary adaptations to fit the operatic form. This includes trimming scenes and characters to maintain narrative flow and musical pacing.
Kathleen Van Dewell [02:34]: "I would say it efficiently follows the Shakespeare plays. Maybe the term I would use is that it just cuts a lot of the extra out that's in the play."
The opera opens with a prologue, much like Shakespeare's plays, which serves to prepare the audience for the tragic events to unfold. This section is pivotal in establishing the feud between the Capulets and Montagues.
Kathleen Van Dewell [05:11]: "This is probably one of the most famous prologues in the history of theater... It lays out everything that is going to happen in a very short little paragraph."
Pat Wright [04:34]: "We're about to meet the main characters, but this is setting us up to remember the context."
The opera introduces key characters such as Tybalt, Paris, Romeo, Juliet, Mercutio, and Friar Lawrence, each bringing distinct traits that drive the narrative forward.
Kathleen Van Dewell [15:57]: "So Tybalt is Juliet's older cousin... He is sort of the heir, in a way."
Pat Wright [16:30]: "Is there any significance to Paris's name, mythologically speaking?"
Kathleen Van Dewell [16:35]: "It could be a reference to Paris from the Iliad, but in this opera, he's portrayed as more of a 'bean counter.'"
The opera begins at a Capulet party where Juliet makes her first entrance, captivating all attendees with her beauty.
Kathleen Van Dewell [18:14]: "Juliet is the most beautiful woman at this ball, but that doesn't hide her beauty."
Pat Wright [19:59]: "She just wants to enjoy herself without the pressures of marriage... this moment is all hers."
Mercutio's "Queen Mab" speech introduces a whimsical yet foreboding tone, reflecting his complex personality.
Kathleen Van Dewell [22:33]: "This long speech about fairies and nonsense... it breaks up the action but is worth listening to."
One of the opera's highlights, the balcony scene, delves deep into the protagonists' emotions, setting the stage for their tragic romance.
Pat Wright [44:00]: "This scene is one of the most famous in visual history."
Kathleen Van Dewell [49:17]: "She says, 'I'll refuse my name,' aligning with Juliet's resolve to overcome societal barriers."
A pivotal moment where Juliet contemplates the drastic measures needed to be with Romeo, showcasing her strength and determination.
Kathleen Van Dewell [95:02]: "This potion aria is a showstopper, reflecting her internal struggle and bravery."
The opera emphasizes themes of love, fate, societal conflict, and individual agency. Juliet emerges as a mature and decisive character, contrasting with Romeo's impassioned and sometimes impractical nature.
Kathleen Van Dewell [41:27]: "Juliet is the character who is willing to do the harder, braver thing."
Pat Wright [42:35]: "She's also thinking about the reality of waking up in a tomb... it's a deeply frightening result."
While the opera remains faithful to the core narrative, it condenses certain scenes and characters for efficiency. Notably, some emotional confrontations and character developments are streamlined or omitted.
Kathleen Van Dewell [82:32]: "In the play, she takes the potion alone and the nurse finds her dead. The opera dramatizes this moment for musical effect."
Gounod's Roméo et Juliette masterfully balances narrative fidelity with operatic storytelling, making the tragedy both accessible and moving. The hosts commend the opera's ability to convey deep emotional currents through its music and performances, ensuring that the timeless tale resonates with contemporary audiences.
Kathleen Van Dewell [114:09]: "It's a story of love, but also how innocent, beautiful love couldn't flourish in a diseased society."
Pat Wright [118:13]: "Our mission is to make opera understandable, accessible, and enjoyable because we believe opera is for everyone."
Pat Wright
Pat is the host of Opera For Everyone, dedicated to making opera accessible and enjoyable for all listeners. He brings enthusiasm and a passion for music to each episode, ensuring that complex operatic works are broken down for easy understanding.
Kathleen Van Dewell
Kathleen serves as the co-host, providing insightful analysis and cultural context to the operas discussed. She also writes a blog on Substack titled Constructive Criticism, where she explores various cultural topics, offering recommendations and in-depth essays.
Opera For Everyone airs Sundays from 9:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. on 89.1 KHOL in Jackson, Wyoming. For more information and past episodes, visit Rosie Brooks' website for the cover artwork.
Note: This summary captures the essence of Episode 120, focusing on the substantive content while omitting advertisements, introductions, and outros as per the request.