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- [00:29]
Pat Wright
Welcome to another edition of Opera for Everyone. I'm your host, Pat. Pat Wright. And on this very special episode, I am thrilled to welcome back Erica Minor.
- [00:38]
Erica Minor
Thank you, Pat. It's always a pleasure and a delight. I'm really excited about this one.
- [00:43]
Pat Wright
I am, too. If any of you've listened to Erica's previous episodes on Opera for Everyone, you will know that Erica is the author of the Julia Kogan opera mystery series. Erica wrote Aria for Murder, her first in the Julia Kogan opera mystery series, and that's set in the New York City Metropolitan Opera. Then the second one was set at Santa Fe. Opera Prelude for Murder. Overture to Murder is the current book that Erica has just released, and that's set in San Francisco in the beautiful War Memorial Opera House. And I would just say by way of introduction, there's a lot I could say, but Erica spent many years as a violinist working in the opera orchestra of the New York Metropolitan Opera. And she writes, not only writes these books, Erica, you speak all over about operatic subjects as well.
- [01:33]
Erica Minor
Yes, I do. I love to give lectures and presentations about opera and all of my experiences, but I'm constantly learning and adding new material and new knowledge to my own knowledge base. So it's all really exciting. I love doing it.
- [01:49]
Pat Wright
Could you just remind us or tell us what made you decide to go in the direction of writing murder mysteries set in an operatic opera house or opera festival?
- [02:01]
Erica Minor
Well, first of all, just to say that I actually started writing before I started playing the violin back when I was in grade school. So that writing has been a part of my life for, like, 100 years. And I always loved it, though when I started playing the violin, the writing kind of played second fiddle, as it were, but.
- [02:22]
Pat Wright
Oh, bad pun.
- [02:23]
Erica Minor
It was bad. I know. But when I was at the Met, I kept writing. I kept taking writing classes whenever I could fit them into my schedule so that I was actually writing while I was still playing. It was an interesting mix, but I found out that an opera house can be actually a perfect environment for mischief and mayhem. There was always stuff happening all the time, and so my writer's imagination was constantly marinating these ideas, even if I wasn't actually writing novels yet. But there were certain nefarious goings on behind the scenes that were just so ripe as grist for my writing mill that I just couldn't resist. And eventually I gave in and said, you know, I just have to write this murder mystery. The potential is there. And it can be quite fascinating for people to find out, even fictionally, what can go on back there behind the scenes, backstage in the orchestra pit, and all over an opera house. It's endless possibilities there.
- [03:29]
Pat Wright
I have to say, having now read three of your works, that one of the things I really appreciate is your ability to take us backstage or amongst the different. Not just the different characters, but also to create a visual description that you. You have of the backstage or the. The other buildings. In some cases of these opera companies, it's very vivid, particularly if you have ever gone to one of these. If you've gone to the New York Metropolitan or you've been to Santa Fe or San Francisco, you only get a glimpse of it as an audience member. But you really put us back where we might imagine. But you take us a little more clearly there.
- [04:12]
Erica Minor
Well, yes, that's so much fun. I think that people really have no idea what goes on back there. Notwithstanding the Met HG transmissions, which show a little bit of backstage interviews. But to be there for 21 years, day in and day out, day and night, you know, seven days a week, nights, weekends, whatever. I just took in everything that was going on around me, of course, very much in the pit with my orchestra colleagues. But also I spent so many hours there, sometimes, in fact, I'd have to hang around the Opera House between a rehearsal and a performance. I would stand in the wings and watch everything that was going on on stage and backstage, all the simultaneous madness there. And it just really triggered my imagination, and I started writing stories in my head. So I like the idea of getting that atmosphere. There's nothing. I don't think there's anything quite in the world like the atmosphere of a theater, especially an opera theater, because you have so many different kinds of people working. I mean, at the Met, there can be 4,000 people working simultaneously in different jobs.
- [05:26]
Pat Wright
You need a traffic controller for that.
- [05:28]
Erica Minor
Well, yeah, And. And the interesting thing is that most of them don't get along with each other. They're really at odds with each other a lot of the time. So that makes for great conflict. And one of the things I first learned in writing, especially in my screenwriting, was that conflict is one of the very most important things you need to create, especially in fiction. So I thought, yeah, there. The whole place is just rife with all that. And I love the idea of describing. And I also love writing description because I knew the place so well. And then subsequently at Santa Fe and at San Francisco, I knew people who worked in the opera company. So I was very lucky to be able to really have access to the entire Opera House, or in the case of Santa Fe, the entire campus. And get ideas for murderous activities.
- [06:19]
Pat Wright
Exactly. I mean, it feels completely polar opposite, taking us into the little dark caverns in the San Francisco Opera House that you do in Overture to Murder compared to this outdoor oriented experience in Santa Fe.
- [06:36]
Erica Minor
Well, each of those opera houses is unique. Although I have to say, Santa Fe as a company is unlike any other. The fact that it's an outdoor theater in the middle of the desert, and John Crosby, who founded the company, was told that he was absolutely out of his mind, and he probably was, but he still made it happen. So that was a lot of fun. Plus, there's all this folklore going on with native tribes and Hispanic influence and New Mexico being the land of enchantment. I just loved each one of those.
- [07:09]
Pat Wright
Erica, you did such a magnificent job of making Santa Fe come alive. I had never been there, and after having read your book, I went online, bought tickets for this past summer, and went to Santa Fe Opera for the very first time and wasn't disappointed. It was even more magnificent than you described, and you described it beautifully. What an experience. I had such a wonderful time. I do have a little more familiarity having gone to San Francisco Opera many times, but you really took us backstage.
- [07:43]
Erica Minor
Well, thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate that. And I have to say before I go on to San Francisco, that when I wrote Prelude to Murder and people started reading it, I got so many responses from people saying that reading the book, they wanted to get on the next plane to Santa Fe or they had never been to the opera and they couldn't wait to go. So that that's one of the best compliments a writer can get. So I that much made it all worthwhile.
- [08:11]
Pat Wright
You may be doing the same thing for San Francisco because you do such an engaging job of describing the exterior as well as the interior.
- [08:20]
Erica Minor
Well, there's nothing like spending time there. And I also have a history with the company because I have various relatives who've worked there, friends who have worked there, and people who live and work in the Bay Area. So I was lucky to be able to get access to not only the opera house and get tours of the opera house from people like the house head or house manager. And the dramaturg was a friend of mine, and he introduced me to the archivist, and the archivist sat me down for like practically a whole day in front of a computer with videos of everything, of the Ring of Kurt Herbert Adler and on and on. It was a fantastic experience, some of which I kind of duplicated in Overture to Murder? In the narrative itself, yes.
- [09:09]
Pat Wright
There's no question when you read Overture to Murder that it is deeply researched. There's so many details put in, not just about the opera house and the experience of being in an opera company, but also just being in San Francisco and in that area. You take us to a lot of places that people who've been to San Francisco may be familiar with. It's. It's really a lovely experience. Okay, there's a murder or two that take place, but that's your job. That's what you. You know, what you're signing up for when. When you buy the book.
- [09:44]
Erica Minor
Yes. When people read a whodunit, they want a mystery. And that's been my specialty lately. But I have to say that San Francisco is such a special place and so beloved by so many people. I mean, some of the most iconic landmarks in the world are in San Francisco. And so I absolutely delighted at the possibility to revisit these fictionally in my writing and describe them in ways that will evoke memories for people who have been there. I also like to say that San Francisco is a city that considers its opera only slightly less sacred than the Holy Grail. That's how much of an opera town San Francisco is. So all of it combines together to make quite a compelling story.
- [10:30]
Pat Wright
It really does. And we're going to talk more about your book and some of the operatic subjects that come up in the book. But before we do, I just want to let our audience know that we are going to have this discussion about subjects raised by your book and your writing process. But we're also going to do what opera for everyone always does, and we're going to talk about a particular opera. And that opera will be a Puccini opera, Il Tabarro, which originally premiered in New York City in 1918. But maybe you could explain why we're going to focus a little bit on Puccini for this selection of an opera.
- [11:10]
Erica Minor
This year, 2024 is the 100th anniversary of Puccini's death exactly November 29th. And a lot of opera people all over the world, but I think especially in the US have been focusing on celebrating him and his operas in a really substantial way, extraordinary way. I mean, we're always celebrating Puccini because his greatness is not quantifiable. But this year is extraordinary. It's special. And so I think that I wanted to connect his operas with the murder mystery angle. And there's one opera especially. I mean, a lot of his operas actually focus more on suicide than murder. But Il Tabaro, the murder in that particular opera, even though it's only a one act opera and usually done as part of either a two or three act evening altogether, the murder is so vivid and so compelling. It just. It just gives you goosebumps, the whole idea of it. And having played it so much at the Met with so many different particular opera singers, especially soprano divas, I had a chance to really take it all in in a really intense way. And so I have to say that when it comes to murder and Puccini, that is the opera that comes to mind for me.
- [12:32]
Pat Wright
Perfect. Puccini is wonderful to talk about and listen to at any time, but I love this idea that we've got a little bit of connection in there. And Puccini is mentioned regularly throughout your book, even though the operas being performed within the story are the operas of Wagner's Ring cycle.
- [12:52]
Erica Minor
Well, that is true in this particular case. And the reason for that is actually going back to the first book, Aria for Murder. Puccini's Tosca figured very prominently in that one. But after that I found a number of other composers who had written kind of bloodstained operas. But in this particular book, there's a compelling reason why Puccini is so prominent, and that is that the founder of San Francisco Opera, Gaetano Merla Puccini, was his favorite composer. He came from Naples, he came over to San Francisco to bring culture to this savage, uncivilized place as it was back in the late 1800s and early 20th century. So this is why I feel that Puccini is so very powerful a connection. Not to mention the fact that Merola, who was a conductor and conducted the opera, of course, many, many times, actually died while he was conducting Madame Butterfly in a performance. And so, having learned so much through all of the archives that were sent to me to read about his history with the company, when I read that, I just practically fell over and I thought to myself, his contribution is incalculable. He was so important. He founded the company, he made the company what it was. He brought culture to the uncultured San Francisco of his time. But Puccini was absolutely number one for him. He loved Puccini more than any other. And in fact, he conducted Il Tabarro in the very first season of San Francisco Opera in 1923. So there's a big connection there.
- [14:32]
Pat Wright
Yeah, that's amazing. One of the things that there's so many things that were brought up, but one of the things I found was Interesting. Talking about San Francisco, obviously it didn't start in the current opera house, the War Memorial Opera House, but that the War Memorial Opera House there is older than, for instance, the Metropolitan Opera House that we can go to in New York. Now, it is a beautiful stately building and also has then more nooks and crannies that seem a little creepier in your description in the book.
- [15:07]
Erica Minor
Oh, yes, it's both. It's the most elegant, in my opinion, of the Met or Santa Fe. Of the three, it's incredibly elegant. The atmosphere, it takes you back to the whole Beaux Arts period. And in fact, that building has been called the last true Beaux Arts building in the country. So it is so elegant and the atmosphere takes you back to. For me, it was like the 1930s, you know, when everybody dressed up and you had velvet everywhere, you know, red velvet chairs and all of this. It was amazing. But when you get into the nitty gritty, like I describe An Overture to Murder, where Julia, the violinist who is taking the place of the concert master, she is taken on a tour of the entire house, which is very much replicating the kind of tour that I got from the house head. And he shows her all of the creepiest places. And I had such a fun time. I took videos and all of that so that I could really replicate all of those places. And describing them was so much fun. Very creepy, but so much fun.
- [16:17]
Pat Wright
Yes. And the Julia you speak of is Julia Kogan of the title Julia Kogan Opera Mystery Series. So was the current War Memorial Opera House built during Marilla's time?
- [16:30]
Erica Minor
He was the one that funded it. He went around to the whole community getting funds to build it. He oversaw the entire building of that War Memorial Opera House. And of course, he conducted the very first performance there in 1932, which was Puccini's Tosca.
- [16:47]
Pat Wright
Oh, wow. It actually reminds me of your prior book, the one set in Santa Fe and John Crosby and the work he had to do to gather funding to make this opera venue come to life. But I guess it always does take that kind of leadership.
- [17:02]
Erica Minor
It does. But arguably, Marilla had a much harder time because Crosby came from wealth. His parents were very wealthy. They helped find the funds for him, but Marilla had to do it all on his own. He actually had a nervous breakdown in the process of trying to get it all done. Yeah, I mean, it's just his. I really should write a book about him. He just had the most fascinating journey from going to Naples, going to the Wild west, founding an opera company Going throughout the Italian community in San Francisco, convincing people to help fund this opera house, which was his concept. It was his whole idea. And I just. I admire that tremendously, that he was quite an extraordinary person.
- [17:52]
Pat Wright
Yes, yes. And in the spirit of opera, for everyone in the Italian culture, opera is a very popular entertainment, or traditionally has been. It permeates the culture. And I think it's magnificence that. That someone like Marilla decides to bring that to a new, out of the mainstream location like San Francisco.
- [18:17]
Erica Minor
Yeah. In ways it was in his time. When you consider the 1920s, as opposed to Crosby, who started Santa Fe opera in the 1950s, it was a whole different world. And also, he had to convince, let's face it, I mean, after the gold rush, it was the miners that he had to convince that they needed opera as the kind of entertainment to raise their culture quotient, you know, this kind of make it more civilized, a symbol of a more refined society. He was the one who had the responsibility to convince all of these people in this town that really were about opera halls and not opera theaters, that that was what they needed for entertainment. That in itself was a big job. But then for him to find all the talent, to find the funding, I mean, it was endless. And just. I am absolutely in awe of him.
- [19:15]
Pat Wright
Yes. Well, in his honor, why don't we play a little bit of music that he would have liked, a little bit of Puccini.
- [19:22]
Erica Minor
Wonderful.
- [19:23]
Pat Wright
What would you recommend for us?
- [19:24]
Erica Minor
Well, when it comes to murder, of course, the scene in Act 2 of Tosca where Scarpia blackmails Tosca into sleeping with him, and she responds by brutally. I mean, brutally stabbing him. And the music that goes with that is absolutely to die for. Literally.
- [19:45]
Pat Wright
Well, and let's not forget what Scarpia has just done to her beloved prior to that as well is pretty gruesome.
- [19:53]
Erica Minor
It's gruesome, and it's also about one of the most dramatic scenes in all of opera.
- [21:42]
Pat Wright
Wow. That Tosca, she is one strong, determined woman.
- [21:48]
Erica Minor
Yes, indeed. I admire people like that. So brave.
- [21:53]
Pat Wright
Yes. And the man that she stabs in her desperation is one of opera's great villains.
- [22:00]
Erica Minor
Oh, indeed, yes.
- [22:02]
Pat Wright
Scarpia is a pretty nasty piece of work. Well, also thinking of the San Francisco Opera founder, Merela, he also loved Butterfly. You mentioned that that was the song he was playing when he died on the podium. You did a lot of research into that episode in the opera company's history.
- [22:25]
Erica Minor
Yes, I did, and it was all fascinating. I was very lucky that I was introduced to the Archivist at San Francisco Opera, who gave me access to all kinds of files, of information, of the history of videos. And I read in that history that Merola, the founder of San Francisco Opera, actually just put his life and soul into this company. He left his native Italy, he left his family behind so he could come here to this country and go to the uncivilized Wild West.
- [23:01]
Pat Wright
Yes.
- [23:02]
Erica Minor
And found an opera company, which was not easy to do in, you know, the early 1900s. So he was up against a lot of odds that he overcame. But the fact is that Puccini was his favorite composer, most beloved composer. And Puccini's Madame Butterfly was Mira's most beloved opera. So it's ironic that he actually died while conducting a performance at an outdoor venue with orchestra and singers of Madame Butterfly. In one of the pivotal dramatic scenes where she's singing about death, he keeled over from a heart attack right there on the podium and died. This was back in 1953. I mean, you can't make this stuff up. It's so dramatic. It's why so many things that happened at the opera when I was at the Met, I used as grist for my writing mill because it's much better than I could fabricate in my mind, or it definitely inspires me, my wicked imagination, to fabricate these stories of the dark side of opera because it's all so passionate and dramatic. It just. There's nothing like it. Nothing like opera.
- [24:15]
Pat Wright
Well, speaking of passion and drama, let's honor Marilla, the founder of San Francisco Opera, one more time with a piece of Puccini music from Madame Butterfly. What piece would you recommend for us?
- [24:31]
Erica Minor
Well, this is one of the pieces that, when I was playing Butterfly at the Met, I always had to keep a handkerchief over my violin to make sure it wouldn't get wet from my tears. That's how much it affected me. In Act 2, of course, there are a couple of really pivotal moments. One is when she's singing her famous aria, Undaldi, when she sings about how she has to hold out hope that Pinkerton, her husband, will return from America. But the other one, for me, is even more dramatic because it's when his friend and the ambassador Sharpless, comes to Cho Cho San and tells her that her husband, Pinkerton, is, in fact, never coming back. And that information hits her like a bullet in the chest. And you can hear it in what Puccini did in the orchestration with the timpani, just boom. And, of course, I have to say, I played it enough times that I could look on the stage and see her reaction when it dawns on her that it's true and she can't, Practically can't live with the whole idea. So she sings. Well, what am I supposed to do now? Am I supposed to go back to being a geisha? No, actually, I'd rather die. And that just I, you know, I start even tearing up thinking about that moment. It's so poignant and evocative.
- [25:54]
Pat Wright
It is. And I've mentioned on opera for everyone previously, but first time I saw Butterfly, I was new to opera, totally unprepared. Just walked in to see a show, and I actually had to walk out because I was sobbing so hard, because it is so heartbreaking what happens to this trusting young woman. And for people not familiar with the story, I'll just say that there is a moment of happiness, a brief moment of happiness between Pinkerton and Butterfly, Cho Cho San in the first act. But it's always an uneasy happiness for the audience because it's clear she's poured her heart into this relationship. But Pinkerton, the American serviceman who's stationed temporarily in Japan, doesn't see it as a permanent marriage. He sees it as something to do while he's stationed there. And he may not be the kind of evil that Scarpia is, but he is one creep of a man as far as I'm concerned.
- [26:48]
Erica Minor
Oh, yeah, he's often booed at the end, you know, when the actor comes out.
- [26:52]
Pat Wright
Yeah, when the tenor comes out, he takes it in stride, typically.
- [26:56]
Erica Minor
Of course.
- [26:57]
Pat Wright
I even saw a performance once where the tenor kind of shrugs his shoulders like, hey, that's the role. Yeah, poor, poor thing. So let's hear a little bit of this piece that you just described from Madama Butterfly. Oh, poor Cho Chaoson. Poor Butterfly. Well, let's turn a little bit more directly now to your book, Overture to Murder, set in the San Francisco environ, specifically the San Francisco Opera House. For people who've read the other books in the Julia Kogan Opera mystery series, there are some familiar characters who are reappearing. Here. We have Julia herself, of course, and her life partner, as described in the character list, Larry Summers, the. I don't know. I find him a very appealing man. He was the detective in the first series, and he's since retired.
- [29:31]
Erica Minor
Yes, he retired from the NYPD after a couple of decades of service, but he's still a detective at heart. And so when things start happening in Overture to Murder, he can't help but start trying to put in his two cents every once in a while. And that engenders conflict between him and Julia, which makes everything that much more spirited, shall we say.
- [29:59]
Pat Wright
It is fun to have her professional life and her personal life both as part of this story. But I will say he might not be able to help himself, but the one who really can't help herself is Julia. We get a little bit into her brain in the way you write it and the way you present it, and she truly can't help herself in spite of warnings that her partner give her. She just has to look into things because she actually was helpful in the investigations in the prior two books.
- [30:30]
Erica Minor
She was. And she also put herself in a lot of danger as well, you know, in the path of a ruthless killer, so to speak. But she's smart and she's savvy and she has evolved over the series. She started out in the first book, Aria for Murder, as a starry eyed neophyte excited to be making her debut in the world's most prestigious opera orchestra. But since then she's developed into quite the savvy, intuitive amateur sleuth who can solve operatic murders that the police can't unravel because she's A, probably smarter than they are, and B, she knows the opera house, she knows the people that populate it, because she's been doing it at this point for a few years, like five or six years, and she's matured as a person. All of this contributes to the fact that in this book she's advanced quite a bit since even the previous book.
- [31:30]
Pat Wright
Yes, and this book, a few years have elapsed. A little over five years have elapsed between her time in Santa Fe being the concert master there, and now she's called in to be the concert master on short notice for this presentation of the Ring Cycle in San Francisco. Which is interesting because the reason the concert master becomes unavailable to do his job there and she needs to be called in, is he's collateral damage to the murderer's efforts. And you let us know that right up front in the book. So I promise you I'm not spoiling anything there.
- [32:06]
Erica Minor
But it's purposely vague at the beginning in chapter one, where you witness the attempt, but you don't know actually if the attempt is successful or not. And as one reader told me recently, he said, you know, even though you put this up front, it doesn't make it any less interesting to try and figure out who's actually going to be doing all this and who's going to be the villain. So I'm trying to do it in a way that will kind of stir up people's imagination and at the same time, try and do the reveal very slowly, as it were.
- [32:44]
Pat Wright
Yes. And I will say, as a mystery writer, you play fair. And all readers are always grateful for that, that you do give us the clues that we would need to put the pieces together for ourselves. So I won't say any more on that, but you play fair, and that's always appreciated when you're reading a mystery book.
- [33:04]
Erica Minor
Thank you. I appreciate that. And as far as Julia, the character, one recent review described her as a violinist who is capable of practicing a tricky passage from a Wagnerian opera score while simultaneously pondering the clues she's collected in a murder investigation. I mean, that's kind of the perfect description. That's exactly how I envisioned her. So I was so happy that one of my readers caught on that. And yeah, she is. She's quite the character, I have to say. And she kind of developed on her own without much of my permission, which makes it really a lot of fun, but also very challenging.
- [33:45]
Pat Wright
Yes, yes. Okay. And back to the concept of repeat characters. We also have two of her good friends, her fellow violinist, Katie. Ma shows up, in fact, stays in the same place with Julia and her family. And we also have the mezzo soprano, Marin Crane. And it's wonderful to have her have sort of these safe havens in these two other characters besides Larry, of course, and people she can bounce her ideas off of.
- [34:15]
Erica Minor
Yeah, Katie and Maren. She has quite an interesting relationship with each of them, and Larry included, all three of them keep warning her off this whole investigation thing. And again, like you said, she's determined. It's part of her DNA that she's so curious and she's so fair minded that she just can't bear to see something happen that's not going to be resolved in a fair and just way. And so there she is putting herself in danger. But she's not the only one in danger. That kind of ups the ante in this one.
- [34:53]
Pat Wright
Yes. And interestingly, the police. Oh, I almost called them detectives. But you make a point repeatedly of telling us that the San Francisco detectives are called inspectors. Yes, quite a number of times people are corrected on that front. So the San Francisco inspectors are content and encouraging of her efforts, which honestly surprises me. But she does uncover some interesting pieces of information in her efforts.
- [35:23]
Erica Minor
Well, she does have to convince them, though. It takes her quite a bit of doing to convince them that they should let her just roll with it when she tries to very Diplomatically say, okay, I know that you have experience, and I'm just an amateur, but I know the Opera house. I know the people in it. I know how their minds work, and I can uncover things that, if you'll pardon me for saying that, might not occur to you. So just let me come on board, you know? So she finally does convince them, to the detriment of her relationship with Larry, because he worries about her, understandably, and he doesn't want her to be in danger. So there's this conflict going on all the time, but she just is determined to make everything fair and square at the end.
- [36:12]
Pat Wright
Yes, she's a determined woman. She's a violinist of highest caliber, as she's described here. And she must be to be so young and to keep getting these concert master positions. One other thing I noticed when reading this book is because you're centering it on a production of the Ring, it feels like you've imagined a recreation of a ring that has played in actuality in the San Francisco Opera House twice that I know of, in 2011 and 2018, the Francesca Zambello production. And in a lot of ways, I feel like this. This book includes a love letter to the work of Francesca Zambello.
- [36:57]
Erica Minor
I absolutely agree. I have the highest respect and admiration for her. And in fact, at one point, Julie mentions the fact that how delightful it is that there are so many women running this opera house. The director, the conductor, the personnel manager. I kind of made that up. But I thought that it would be something that would really appeal to readers. It certainly appeals to me. So that's part of it. So I have huge respect for Francesca Zambella, and I was able, thanks to the archivist, to watch the videos of the entire thing from beginning to end, not all at one sitting, and take notes while I was doing that, so I could really have an accurate description of what the production is like. And it's also from various people's point of view. Some of it is from Julia's point of view, some from Katie's point of view, some from Marin's point of view. And I think that because I have to say that I once calculated that while I was at the Met, I played more hours of Bogner in rehearsals, performances, recordings, and on tour than any other composer.
- [38:05]
Pat Wright
Well, his operas were awfully long.
- [38:07]
Erica Minor
They were long. Like, you know what they say, life is short. Wagner is long. So it's hours and hours and hours. So I feel that, yes, difficult. And by the time you get to the Ride of the Valkyries, in the third act of the Valkyrie, you've been playing already for, like, four hours, and you still have at least another hour to go. So it takes a lot of energy. You have to learn how to pace yourself. All of that is part of this story about how Julia, not only. I mean, she has played the Ring at the Met before, she has gone to San Francisco. That's one of the reasons that they called upon her.
- [38:46]
Pat Wright
Right.
- [38:47]
Erica Minor
But also being a concert master of the second most prestigious opera company in the US and in the Ring, which is anywhere from 17 to 22 hours of music, depending who's conducting, it's a huge, huge pressure on her. So, again, I'm doing that in a way because I thought, well, it's really time to make a mystery about the Ring. I mean, given the fact that each of the four operas has at least one murder, if not more, I thought I couldn't resist using that.
- [39:19]
Pat Wright
And you also do a wonderful job just mentioning some of the characters and how they relate to other works of art. For instance, the Avengers.
- [39:27]
Erica Minor
Yeah. I mean, the other thing about Wagner's Ring is that even though there's been a lot of discussion and there are various opinions about this, but I firmly believe that Wagner's Ring has parallels to J.R.R. tolkien's the Lord of the Rings, definitely, because they're both monumental works, operatic and literary, and they both reflect certain universal themes like love and power and jealousy. But also they revolve around the struggle to take possession of a golden ring that will give its owner command over the world. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of universality in that, and I think that's something that a lot of other things like the Avengers and various kinds of entertainment of that ilk, that they use the same characters with some with different names. You know, Loki is Loga and botanist Odin, but still, it's the same mythology. So that's another thing that I thought would be of universal appeal to readers of this book. Not only that, it also happens to be probably the greatest ever written in the operatic genre, according to some people, but that it's just a really important work. And it also signifies the San Francisco Opera in many ways, because they have become known for doing these innovative productions of the Ring. So it's all coming together in this. In this book.
- [40:56]
Pat Wright
Yes, it's a lot of fun. And I will confess that in 2018, that production in San Francisco by director Francesco Zambella, with Maestro Runnicles on the podium, that was my first Ring experience. And San Francisco Opera, I Cannot say enough nice things about them. What a an opportunity they provided for audience members to sit in on talks and hear side concerts with the chorus and all sorts of ways to invite people into opera and learn about the story and Wagner in the process. It was an amazing experience and I was lucky enough to see the production live in San Francisco. So I recalled all of that listening to, describing it in the book. It was magnificent.
- [41:45]
Erica Minor
Oh, that's wonderful to hear. I'm a huge fan.
- [41:49]
Pat Wright
Yeah. Just a shout out for Francesca Zanbello once more in the current season 2024. They're doing her production of Carmen and another Opera for Everyone Connection is that the conductor for that is Ben Manis, who was on Opera for Everyone a few episodes back because he was here in Wyoming for the Grand Teton Music Festival. Actor for Maestro Runicles this summer at the Grand Teton Music Festival. And in particular, they put on a concert opera at the end. And we talked about Magic Flute, which was this past summer's opera. So connections everywhere.
- [42:28]
Erica Minor
Well, another connection is that I played a number of performances of different operas with Donald Radicals at the Met. So I have huge, huge admiration for him and his musicality and just his brilliance on the podium.
- [42:44]
Pat Wright
So, yeah, he is definitely beloved in my hometown here in Wyoming because of his summer efforts. And he was in San Francisco for many years as well.
- [42:56]
Erica Minor
So, yes, opera, Everybody's connected. Everybody's connected. There's nothing like it.
- [43:03]
Pat Wright
I am learning that. Well, speaking of everyone being connected, one of the other great treats of reading your book are the little tidbits you throw in. Many are explained and some are just there to help you remember what you've enjoyed in your other books. I will say that you don't have to have read the first two books in order to read Overture to Murder, though I think you'll enjoy it even more if you read Aria for Murder First, Prelude to Murder Second, and then Overture to Murder. Because in Overture to Murder, you do backfill what we need to know when references are made. But there are also moments where characters who work in the opera house, not necessarily even the singers or the instrumentalists, but characters who work backstage, they'll just throw out a quote from another opera. And it's fun when you get to read that if you recognize them happening. Not necessary.
- [44:01]
Erica Minor
It really is a lot of fun.
- [44:02]
Pat Wright
And I love when one of the inspectors says, seems like an opera house is a perfect place for mischief and mayhem. I thought, oh, that should be on the COVID of the book.
- [44:15]
Erica Minor
I use that quote in almost every Lecture I give.
- [44:19]
Pat Wright
Well, it stuck out for me. I loved it. One of the other things I noticed was in the tour that you mentioned the character James, the house head. First of all, could you explain to us what a house head is?
- [44:31]
Erica Minor
Well, it's different in different opera houses. But John, this particular house head has been with the company over 30 years, so he knows every corner and every cranny of the place in great detail. In fact, chilling detail in some ways. But basically, he explains that a lot in different little patches over the story, depending on who he's explaining it to. Basically, he's a stagehand, and he has to be a stagehand. That's part of his job description. But mostly he oversees the house and makes sure everything running. And that's why he has to be going from top to bottom all the time and knows the details of every little bit of machinery that's there that helps things run. He knows it, of course, so well because he's been there so many decades. But it's a huge responsibility. If one little cog in the wheel is off, he has to know about it and do something to fix it. So he has to have good relationships with everybody in the opera house. And it was my impression that he did. He introduced me to a number of other stagehands and people who were in those kinds of positions of having to run the place physically, it's just. It's huge. And it's also old. 1932. That's a lot of years to keep machinery running. So, yeah, it's. It's not an easy job. Yeah, it's quite astonishing.
- [45:58]
Pat Wright
Well, when the character James, the house head, is giving the tour, one of the things he points out is this thing called the ghost light, which I thought, well, that's just perfect, the ghost light. What is the ghost light?
- [46:13]
Erica Minor
Well, the ghost light is something that's not only in opera houses, but as far as I know, every theater has one. And because there's a certain amount of superstition, I think it's very real that there are ghosts in the theater that you have to appease, otherwise they will wreak havoc. And, you know, things can happen, terrible things can happen in an opera house. You know, people falling through elevator shafts and stuff like that. It's really happened. So they make sure to leave this light on the stage lit at night to make sure that the ghosts are happy and they're not going to cause any trouble. Now that it's real. It's absolutely real. And of course, Julia freaks out about the whole idea but because, as we learned in the previous book, Prelude to Murder, she does not like ghosts. So it all kinds of makes her very uncomfortable and unnerved, which adds to the drama and the conflict. So it all comes together. But, yeah, the ghost light, it's an important thing. I've never seen it, actually, because I'm always gone by the end of a performance, but I've seen pictures. In fact, when San Francisco Opera was doing their renovation during the pandemic, I think it may have even been John who posted on Facebook a picture of the ghost light. And they have different colors for different occasions, too. It's amazing.
- [47:41]
Pat Wright
It's fascinating.
- [47:42]
Erica Minor
You had no idea?
- [47:43]
Pat Wright
No, I have no idea. That's why I read your book. I think it's time for another bit of music. And because of the Ring and what a role it plays in this book and how frequently the Ride of the Valkyries is mentioned in this book. Let's hear a little bit of Wagner's Right of the Valkyries. Well, nothing really gets your heart pumping like Ride of the Valkyries. Wow. What a piece of music.
- [49:56]
Erica Minor
Well, and I have to say that Wagner, being the sadist that he was, waited until the third act to play this monstrous piece that. I mean, by the time you get there, you're so tired. But I have to say, the music just whips you into a French. It doesn't matter how tired you are. It's just you get this adrenaline and you just keep going. And another interesting thing about that that just occurred to me, my violin teacher, Joseph Silverstein, who was the concert master of the Boston Symphony, he was discussing certain technique of the violin, and somebody asked him about the Ride of the Valkyries, which I'm sure the BSO has played in concert version at some point. And he said, I mean, I owe him everything. He was such an amazing person and just taught me everything I knew. He had this kind of quirky, sardonic sense of humor. And he said something to the effect of, you know, those Met Opera people. I don't know how they play that music. I mean, it's, like, impossible. And I'm sitting there just laughing because I'm like, here he is, my idol, the concert master of the Boston Symphony. I had to laugh. Just wanted to share that.
- [51:07]
Pat Wright
Oh, it's so funny because I always approach opera, of course, from the point of view of an audience member. And I'm thinking, oh, we're just waiting for this song and the power of it. But, of course, if you're actually having to play it, yes, in the orchestra pit, it's a totally different experience. And on behalf of all audience members, I would like to say thank you to all the musicians. It's. It's magnificent.
- [51:33]
Erica Minor
It's.
- [51:34]
Pat Wright
It's magical. Honestly, what is created in the orchestra and also on the stage, just all of it. It's. I mean, this is why I love opera. This is why I love opera.
- [51:43]
Erica Minor
There's nothing like it. And thank you for saying that because after all those years, and even we recorded Die Walker, that was the first Levine recording with the Met. Actually, in my first recording with the Met, that. It just means a lot to me that you feel that way. So thank you for sharing that.
- [52:02]
Pat Wright
Of course. Of course. And speaking of why I love opera, one of the things I say on each episode at the end is everyone loves a good story, and a story set to music is even better. And I had to smile when one of your characters in the book says, telling stories is what makes us human. It's just a simple truth. There was a time when I taught very young children, and you start to tell them a story, or for that matter, you sing to them, and you have their attention. Any running around, any craziness, stories and music, that's what cuts through and fundamentally grabs their attention. It's. It's powerful stuff.
- [52:46]
Erica Minor
And when you think of it, it goes back to our origins. I mean, stories were the first communication. That's how people communicated verbally by telling stories. And like, this is the way Native Americans are to this day. They all talk about the fact that their tradition is in stories, in passing these stories down from generation to generation. It's their communication. I mean, it's so inspiring. And that's one of the reasons why, when I was placed in an after school program for creative writing in grade school, and I didn't realize until I started putting characters and plots together that I loved telling stories. I just loved it. And I still do, and I always will.
- [53:28]
Pat Wright
Well, we always appreciate a good storyteller. It's. It's magical. And when you talk about how old the tradition of storytelling is, I mean, someone like Wagner, even, he doesn't make up all these characters. He's adapting them from existing mythology. Think of how many operas are based on Greek and Roman mythologies.
- [53:50]
Erica Minor
It's almost infinite. I mean, think about Handel, and he wrote 40 some operas, and they were almost all having to do with mythology. So I totally relate to that, I have to say. But one of the things that I admire most about Wagner, from the standpoint of me being a writer is that he wrote all of his own librettos, every single one.
- [54:11]
Pat Wright
Well, he was also a control freak.
- [54:13]
Erica Minor
He was. But the fact is that's an extraordinary accomplishment. Whether he was a control freak or not.
- [54:20]
Pat Wright
I just know I'm being difficult.
- [54:22]
Erica Minor
I still haven't gotten over that. How did he do that? I don't know. But yeah, you gotta admit.
- [54:30]
Pat Wright
Well, Wagner and his Gesamtunswerk. Oh, I didn't know I was gonna get to throw that one out here. His total work of art. But he really did want to be in charge of everything. I mean, it's an amazing accomplishment, but to the point where he builds his, or he, he designs for being built his own theater for the proper presentation of his operas because he had a clear vision of what he was trying to accomplish as a, as a musician and a dramatist.
- [55:00]
Erica Minor
And so did Gaetano Merla in San Francisco. When you think about it was his vision.
- [55:07]
Pat Wright
Yes, yes. Oh, so grateful to all of these leaders and performers. It's magnificent. We're all so fortunate to have it out there. Opera is for everyone, as I say. Well, speaking of Wagner, we are going to end on a little bit of Wagner music, but don't go away because the second half we're going to be talking more about Puccini in honor of the 100th year that has passed since his passing. And also we will be talking about specifically his opera, Il Tabaro. But right now we're going to go out on the final piece of music from the final opera of the multi, multi, multi hour ring cycle, the final piece of music from Gotter Demmerung by Richard Wagner. Host, you're listening to Opera for Everyone, a radio show and podcast that makes opera understandable, accessible and enjoyable for everyone. On today's show, I'm joined by Erica Minor, author of the three books in the Julia Kogan opera, mystery, Aria for Murder, Prelude to Murder, and now Overture to Murder. Opera for Everyone airs Sundays from 9 to 11am Mountain Time on 89.1 K HOL, Wyoming's only community radio station. If you'd like to hear more conversations about opera, please subscribe to the Opera for Everyone podcast. You can hear this episode and so many more. Stay with us. The second half of today's show is coming right up. Welcome back to the second half of this episode of Opera for Everyone. I'm your host, Pat Wright, and with me today is an extraordinary woman, Erica Minor. Welcome back.
- [59:53]
Erica Minor
Thank you, Pat. I'm so glad to be here.
- [59:56]
Pat Wright
Just reminding everyone that Erica Minor has written her third book in the Julia Kogan opera mystery series, this one entitled Overture to Murder. Erica also has a long history and experience with opera and classical music through playing violin in the Met Opera Orchestra, and also by being a lecturer and author and review viewer and screenwriter, I believe.
- [60:27]
Erica Minor
Yes, that too.
- [60:29]
Pat Wright
So many things going on. I don't know how you manage it all, Erica.
- [60:32]
Erica Minor
It's because I was alive during the Renaissance, so I think that must be it. I'm a Renaissance woman.
- [60:38]
Pat Wright
I like that concept. Okay, before we carry on with this second half, where we're going to focus on Puccini and celebrating the 100th year that we've had to live without him but enjoyed his works of art, I'd like to specifically talk about one of his short operas, One Act Il Ta Baro. Before that, though, I'd like to tell you about the performers for today's music. The Tosca music is from a 1953 recording by the Orchestra of La Scala with Victor de Sabata as conductor. Tosca sung by Maria Callas, Scarpia sung by Tito Gobi. The Madama Butterfly is from a 1987 recording by the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Giuseppe Sinopoli. Mirel Efreni sings Chocho San and Juan Pons sings Sharpless. The music from Wagner's Ring Cycle come from two of those operas, the first being Die Valkure, the Valkyrie, recorded in 1963 with the Vienna Philharmonic conducted by Sir Georg Schulte. Also from the Vienna Philharmonic, led by Sir Georg Schulte, we have the very end piece from gotterdammerung, recorded in 1964. Brigitte Nielsen sings Brunhilde and Gottlob Frick sings Hagen. Coming up in this second half, we'll be listening to pieces from Puccini's Il Tabarro. This music was recorded in 1971 with the New Philharmonia Orchestra, led by Eric Leinsdorf with the John Aldis Choir. The role of Michele is sung by Cheryl Milnes. Gijetta is sung by Leontine Price. Luigi is sung by Placido Domingo. The other two stevedores sung by Piero De Palma and Amis El Hage. And La Frugala is sung by Oraya Didominguez. Thank you, everyone, for all of that beautiful music that you created. All right, Erica, you suggested to me quite some time ago, earlier in this year that we should discuss Puccini, because all around the globe, people are celebrating this Puccini anniversary, 2024.
- [63:07]
Erica Minor
It's a very, very important year. He died in 1924. And of course, exactly 100 years ago, actually on November 29th was the day. And because he is just one of the most beloved opera composers of all time, for any number of reasons that we can discuss, this is a very important anniversary and so I wanted to make sure that we commemorated it. Because I played so much PUCCINI in my 21 years as a violinist with the Metropolitan Opera, and he became so beloved to me, I felt like I wanted to pay him homage.
- [63:47]
Pat Wright
Yes, yes. I think everyone who enjoys this is probably too sweeping. But how can you not love his tunes, his operas? They're just sumptuous and evocative too. Tell me what you love, particularly about Puccini as a composer.
- [64:04]
Erica Minor
I think what I love the most is how he plays upon everyone's emotions. The emotions and the way he pulls at your heartstrings, it's unlike any other composer. There's something about Puccini and the way he combined the music and the drama that no matter how many times you see or hear Madame Butterfly or La Boheme, you still cry. It still evokes these emotions that are so powerful. It gets you every time. And I think that's one of the things that's so unique and extraordinary about him and his music.
- [64:44]
Pat Wright
Yeah, he does get to your emotions right away. Again, I'm looking at it from a different perspective than you not being a member of an opera orchestra ever in my life. But it's powerful stuff. I think there's an essence of the makeup of humans that he seems to have understood.
- [65:04]
Erica Minor
He more than understood it, he felt it. He had such a great soul and such a great heart and he felt this drama and he felt for the characters and made them all sympathetic so that you get completely invested in them right away. Like in La Bohen Boom. The first, very first notes just grab you. It grabs you and then this characters start to sing and before you know it, you're madly in love with all of these people and you care about what happens to them, and what happens to them is invariably tragic. So of course it's going to play upon your emotions. But that's the one of the great things about music and drama, this perfect combination, that it's an emotional journey unlike any other. And Puccini was able to grab you in a way that no other composer could.
- [65:56]
Pat Wright
Agreed. We're going to take a look Shortly at the one act opera, Il tabarro, the first of the three operas that he wrote later in his career. 1918. They premiered at the New York Metropolitan Opera, not in Italy, in New York. And these three operas, which, on a quick glance, don't seem to have a lot in common with each other, actually do. But I want to talk about this concept of verismo, because when you look into Il Tabarro, so many commentators will say, oh, it is Puccini's great verismo opera. That alongside of Tosca also, they cite as being a great work of verismo by Puccini.
- [66:45]
Erica Minor
Yes, Il Tabaro is a perfect example because it's very real. He actually portrays a real place, Paris, at a real time in the 1900s, specifically the year 1900, where these characters all interact together in a way that's very real. I mean, that's really the. The root of the word verismo is vero, which means true. And so these are not characters that are mythological. These are not even characters from the previous century. This is 20th century stuff. And he does it in such a way that it's so true and so powerful, this classic love triangle between the woman, her husband and her lover that you know is going to end in tragedy, there's no doubt about it. He foreshadows that with all the music, but he also portrays certain other very true things, like sound effects, like the tugboat, the sound of the tugboat in the background, that, you know, you're in Paris, you're on the Seine river, you're in 1900 at a time when everybody was working really hard, and the stevedores and the people trying to get everything done in the way that is needed by the people. All of this atmosphere is something that he paints with his music and with the words so perfectly coordinated that you get completely wrapped up in it from the very beginning.
- [68:19]
Pat Wright
Yeah, that is absolutely true. Well, just a few more thoughts on this concept of verismo. It's an outgrowth of, well, various philosophies, realism, naturalism. I always think of the novels of Emile Zola, who's often picked out as one of these people in literature, who embodies this everyday working people and the difficulties that they face, and oftentimes a rather pessimistic look at people's lives. But it's very interesting when you look at the concept of verismo in opera. It's just totally common for people to say, yes, Cavalleria rusticana 1890, and Pagliacca, 1893, those are the first real operas which are verismo. But other people will say, yeah, but take a look at even Traviata 1853 by Verdi, or Bizet's Carmen, 1875. There are definitely elements of this gritty slice of life, earthy style take on storytelling, where happiness is elusive, if not impossible. And there are all kinds of external pressures, whether it's the codes of society or poverty, often or other people. It's a fascinating look. It is definitely not romanticism.
- [69:40]
Erica Minor
No, definitely not. It's quite the opposite, though. The music is very romantic in so many ways, and especially as Puccini wrote it. But I think he really had it down. He had the whole concept that was like a follow up to these earlier Verismo operas of Leon Cavallo and Mascagni and of course, Bizet and Carmen. All of those kind of started the path toward what Puccini ended up doing in his Verisimo Operas. And in some ways, he is the most masterful at it. And I think especially in both Tosca and in Il Tabarro, they're very realistic. They're very gritty and violent. In this case, both cases of Tosca and in Il Tabaro, there's a violent murder taking place right on the stage, which must have made people who originally saw it just gasp.
- [70:38]
Pat Wright
Yes, it's so powerful. But it's interesting. This is relatively late in Puccini's career, Il Tritigo 1918, as opposed to, say, some of his earlier works, like, well, let's go back to La Boheme, those are filled with soaring melodies. It's a beautiful work of art. But it feels very different from Il Tabarro.
- [71:01]
Erica Minor
Yes, very different. And in fact, Il Tabarro is kind of neglected compared to his other operas. And it was a late work, even later than La Fanciula del West, which was premiered in 1910, also at the Met in New York.
- [71:17]
Pat Wright
Right.
- [71:18]
Erica Minor
Puccini had a great love for his fans in America. And I think that it's. It's really fascinating that he chose to premiere both Fanci and Tabaro at the Met. It's very dark, it's very vengeful. In some ways even more violent and grittier than Tosca because it's closer to the real world. At the time when he wrote it, people were seeing something as really contemporary, whereas Tosca takes place much, much earlier in the 19th century. But this is definitely 20th century stuff. So I think it's really important on the spectrum. And also in the other two operas of this trip, Titch, he does something entirely different. He starts with tragic and ends with comics. So it's just amazing how he could do all of that in one Evening it is.
- [72:13]
Pat Wright
And speaking of this triptych, which premiered together, Puccini always said he wanted the three performed together, even though they don't seem to have a lot in common. In the comic opera at the Inn, Gianni Schiki, there is a reference to Dante and his Divine Comedy. In fact, the whole story takes from a. A piece of the Divine Comedy, but there's a reference to it that reminds us, or could make us think how all three stories can hook together in terms of part of what Dante does in the Divine Comedy. It's quite interesting. And everything I've read said Puccini always wanted them to be performed together, but that's not always the case. Il Tabaro is the one that seems to get singled out the most and might be paired with some other opera, even from some other composer often, but it's an event. It can be quite an event for an opera company to stage all three, because it's demanding. You need a really strong cast. It's a long night, different sets. It's something that, if you see it on offer at any point in time, seize the opportunity.
- [73:19]
Erica Minor
Well, absolutely. And it does require three different casts. I mean, there's no way that you can have the same cast in each of these operas. The vocal demands are different, the dramatic demands are different, and each one of them is so powerful that it's almost impossible for the same person to be singing in all three of these operas. And the cast, the characters are just so different, the way he drew them and wrote them. So I think that the thing that they have in common, perhaps, and, you know, I don't have a clear line to be able to discuss this with Puccini, but my instinct says that the thread that keeps them all together was the fact that there's an element of darkness in each one. Even in Gianni Skiki, you start with a dead body on stage, you know, and the way these people react, they really are very selfish, greedy people. And that's a dark element. And certainly in Silica, the second opera, the tragedy of that is the worst thing in the world of finding out that you've lost a child in all of the darkness of that. And then, of course, Tabarro, the whole thing begins with this gritty portrayal of the city of Paris in 1900, and then just keeps deteriorating in this relationship between the woman and her husband, who are at odds, and the husband and the lover, and all of it comes together to just shock you right out of your seat. So, to me, it's the darkness of each One of these that pulls all of these operas together to be of a piece of one evening.
- [75:01]
Pat Wright
Absolutely. And in fact, all three of those operas have a focus on child or children, quite young children in the case of the first two, older children, but children nevertheless in the last one. If you take time with these operas, you can see connections, but the connection is not obvious at first. Well, speaking of taking time with operas, let's jump into Il Tabarro and maybe as a bit of a transition from our general conversation here, let's listen to a few of these first notes of Il Tabarro. It's very atmospheric. You get a sense of where you are when you hear it. And this, I've read, is the only opera of Puccini's where he wanted the curtain to come up in silence. The music does not start before the curtain raises, as is so often the case with operas.
- [77:23]
Erica Minor
Sa.
- [78:08]
Pat Wright
This is opera for everyone. I'm here with Erica Minor, the author of Overture to Murder, and we are spending a little time with Puccini here and one of his operas in particular, Il Tabaro. We have set the scene with that gorgeous music right by the Seine, with people who don't have a lot and work very hard. Before we launch into the story proper, I do want to acknowledge our librettist here. Giuseppe Adami was the librettist and he based this libretto on a play that Puccini had seen in Paris by Didier Gold, the Cloak, which is the same as Il Tabaro. Puccini saw that play in 1912, so it wasn't really a long time till he had made it into an opera. And what an opera it is. A one act. We're on the Seine, we have that atmospheric sense that it's not going to be a cheerful time. And it. It's not.
- [79:07]
Erica Minor
In the beginning, Puccini sets the scene with the Seine river with the barge and he introduces the character. And we find out that Michele owns the barge and he employs certain stevedores to work on the barge, one of whom is Luigi, who we later find out is actually his wife, Giordetta's lover.
- [79:29]
Pat Wright
No spoilers in opera.
- [79:31]
Erica Minor
No. But from the very beginning you can tell from the music and from watching their interaction that they're at odds with each other. The marriage is in trouble, we find out later why, or one of the most compelling reasons why. And so we have a certain amount of sympathy for Giageta, even though she is unfaithful to Michele, she's gone through a terrible tragedy in their marriage that has set Them at odds against each other. All of this is painted in the atmosphere by Puccini with this very somber kind of almost lazy music. In the beginning, you're hearing the flow of the River Seine. But then as he starts introducing characters, things get darker and darker. And you start finding out as he peels off the layers of the onions of these characters, what motivates them, what their personal tragedies are, what their dreams are. All of this happens in one, one act opera.
- [80:31]
Pat Wright
It does. And right up front here we see them trying to inject a little happiness into their lives. She's like, hey, these guys have been working really hard, carrying all this heavy stuff.
- [80:44]
Erica Minor
Can't.
- [80:44]
Pat Wright
Can't we offer them a drink? Michele, my husband, can't we offer them a drink? And he says, yeah, sure, they've, they have worked hard. Let's. Let's give the guys a drink. Another bit of trying to create some happiness is once they've had a drink, an organ grinder comes by and they ask him to stay and play a little music. And Georgetta, the only woman so far on the stage, tries to dance with. Well, first, the first two of the stevedores, the longshoremen. We have Tinka, who, at least in the original French play, is considered the fool. And then Talpa, which is Mole, his wife, is going to show up a little later. And neither of them is very good at dancing. But then handsome young Luigi. Luigi, by the way, is meant to be 20 years old. Georgetta, the wife, 25 years old, and her husband twice that age. Michele is 50. So that tells you a little something there of what might happen. But it's interesting because we never get a sense that there's any happiness with the drink, with the dancing, though there is an effort to find happiness. The only happiness I see her here with this opera is when Georgetta finally gives up on the two. Her stepping on her toes, trying to dance, and she dances with Luigi.
- [82:13]
Erica Minor
That's absolutely true. And one of the most poignant things about this is that she clearly is in love with Luigi, but she can't completely let herself go because she knows Michele is watching and she doesn't want to let on that there's something real going on between her and Luigi when, ironically, of course, Michele already knows. So again, you have these conflicts driving the narrative of this tragic drama, and it unfolds you in this tragedy and drama as things progress.
- [82:48]
Pat Wright
Yeah. Let's hear a little bit of the music. When Georgetta and Luigi dance. Well, the happiness of Georgetta, the young woman and the very strong, handsome Luigi. It doesn't last very long. And it was out in public anyway, as you say. So it wasn't very full blown there. Although we, the audience are clued in. We have a little conversation next between the young wife, Georgetta, and her twice as old husband, Michele. And while this conversation's going on in the background, we have the life of Paris taking place. That's where we get some of those sounds that you were referring to earlier. But you get a song peddler who comes by and talks about some young lovers, which is just such a contrast to what is going on between this husband and wife, where that flame seems to have been extinguished.
- [84:18]
Erica Minor
There's definitely an irony, and of course, Puccini was the master at irony in his operas. But in this particular scene where you hear someone singing a love song against the foreground of these two main characters, Georgetta and her husband Michele, confronting each other, clearly their marriage is absolutely miserable. Both of them are miserable in the marriage. And in the background you hear this song about idealized love as it is for Paris lovers, which is kind of an iconic concept. So, yeah, the irony starts to build in this particular scene with the love song on the one hand, and the confrontation about how unhappy this couple, such as they are there are at the moment.
- [85:07]
Pat Wright
Yeah, and just one of those little Easter eggs hidden in here. Puccini has this song peddler conclude his song by referencing the short time you have in life grabbing love while you can and ending it with a reference to Mimi thinking of La Boheme. That's just fun to know it's there.
- [85:30]
Erica Minor
Well, not only that, but again, it's the irony because Mimi comes to a very bad end. So, you know, a tragic end. So he's almost foreshadowing here that something terrible is going to happen.
- [85:43]
Pat Wright
Yes. And I was thinking one of the other big contrast once you put Mimi into your head and. And she does meet a tragic end, but she meets a tragic end surrounded by people who love her, which is. Something doesn't work that way in this show. And also, Mimi, unlike this show, where we are in this, we're in Paris, but we don't really feel like we're in Paris. We feel like we're in an almost claustrophobic world. This boat. And sure, some things are passing by, but their world is very enclosed. Mami, at least in La Boheme for a little while, goes out to the cafe and sees the guy selling toys to the kids and there's just a little snatch of joy and happiness that you get to see in that opera and you don't really see it here.
- [86:34]
Erica Minor
Well, I think that's indicative of the difference in time between 1896, when La Boheme premiered, and 1918. Puccini certainly he had a very difficult life, a volatile personal life going on. And in the ensuing years he learned a lot of what makes irony and what makes life difficult. So I think that this whole idealistic atmosphere of La Boheme, even though it ends in tragedy, as you said, it has intervals which are joyful and spirited and bon vivant kind of thing. You don't have this in Il Tabarro at all. It's really, again, it's the gritty verismo that Puccini has come to at this point in his life and in his work. So I think that's part of the difference that, yes, he references almost in a kind of sadly ironic way, Mimi, at least she died a death surrounded by people who loved her. As tragic as it was in this case, it's a totally different story. And you know, something terrible is going to happen and it has nothing to do with a tragic disease, but just plain jealousy and vengeance and despair.
- [87:51]
Pat Wright
Well, we have a new character make her way onto the scene. The only other woman character in the show, La Frugala. She's kind of. I mean, she's the most fun we have when she shows up anyway, I feel. What's her story?
- [88:08]
Erica Minor
Well, she's married to an alcoholic, for one. So even though on the surface she tries to be upbeat and kind of spirited, really her spirit is being dragged down by this terrible disease that her husband is a victim of. She comes in and says, good evening, young lovers. Which is ironic because Michele is not young, but Luigi is. And she starts singing about things that she finds to be important in life that are trying to be upbeat and optimistic, but she can't really be optimistic because she is involved in yet another tragic marriage. Tragic for different reasons. All of these characters have tragedy going on in their lives. And the fact that Puccini is able to portray this in a short one act opera and develop these characters as he does both dramatically and musically, is really quite a miracle, I think.
- [89:10]
Pat Wright
Yeah, it's interesting. Her name, which can be translated as Ferret, also can be translated as someone who rummages around, someone who find stuff. She goes through other people's refuse and in her bag she collects this stuff and even offers Georgetta a comb that she thinks is nice. It can be cleaned up and Georgette can enjoy it. She likes hanging out with Georgette. And there's just this wonderful little bit that she will sing where she talks about her true love, her best romance, and that's with her cat.
- [89:44]
Erica Minor
How Parisian is that?
- [90:55]
Pat Wright
That was La Frugala singing about what happiness she's able to find in her life. I wanted to ask, Erica, I know that you have experience playing in opera orchestras. Have you ever played this show?
- [91:09]
Erica Minor
I actually played Il Tabarro before I even came to the Met. In fact, before I was in New York, I was in Boston. I went to school there and then stayed there and freelanced there for a number of years. And one freelance particular event was a recording of Il Tavaro that we did at the radio station WGBH in Boston. It was a freelance orchestra, but it was musicians that I played with and performed with consistently as a freelancer. We were at the studio recording Il Tavaro. And this is the first time I'd ever heard of the opera or heard the opera. But it made a deep impression on me. I had never played a Puccini opera at that point. And that was my introduction to Puccini. So it was interesting. As I remember, the thing that made the biggest impression on me was the atmosphere. Now, this was obviously not a performance in a theater with everything else that goes along with opera. It was just the orchestra, the singers and the music. And the music made an indelible impression upon me. I remember thinking, I have to play more Puccini. And also that I thought it was interesting that they chose this particular opera to record and then subsequently play on the radio. So it was a really interesting experience. But when I came to the Met and ended up playing Il Tabaro along with the other two operas that I had also never played, it was a revelation to me because I got to put together everything that I had previously played and heard with the drama and the sets, the costumes and the atmosphere.
- [92:53]
Pat Wright
And speaking of other conversations we've had before we started doing this show, you've told me that there's a story about Toscanini.
- [93:00]
Erica Minor
There's a lot about Toscanini. Toscanini and Puccini had a very, very close relationship. They had huge respect and admiration for each other. They were very, very close. And Toscanini conducted a number of Puccini's operas, one of which was Il Tritico. And, of course, he also conducted the premiere of Torrendott after Puccini had died. So here we are in the hundredth anniversary year of Puccini's death. And it was Toscanini, who conducted that premiere in 1924, but also, it's kind of a legend that in that first performance, he actually laid down his baton at the point where Puccini had stopped writing. The rest, of course, was composed by someone else, the ending. And it was Toscanini's way of paying homage to the great master. And he said, this is where the maestro laid down his pen. What a moment that must have been.
- [94:01]
Pat Wright
Oh, you just gave me chills, by the way.
- [94:04]
Erica Minor
I also got chills from that. I can't imagine how devastated Toscanini must have been at Puccini's death. And then to have to get up there and conduct this opera. That was the last opera that Puccini ever composed, and then not only have to perform it, but got to a point where, no, this is where the Maestro put down his pen. This is where we're ending. Of course, in subsequent performances, he had to do the whole opera, but at that particular moment, that's what happened. And, wow, what a story. What a relationship. And, of course, Toscanini was famous for conducting so many other composers, including Wagner, as a matter of fact. But that was his way of paying a final homage to his beloved maestro, Puccini.
- [94:54]
Pat Wright
Fabulous. Well, we need to get back to our story. We're trying to snatch some pleasure here with Frugala singing about her love for her cat, singing about wanting to live in the countryside, which you just know is not even going to be a possibility. And Luigi comes back onto the scene. He has a moment to share some of his inner thoughts with us here. He's really given into the difficulty, the frustration, the hopelessness of their situation, where he says, just bow your head, bend your back, we're good for nothing else in life. Just work and joy becomes pain, and there's no other choice. As part of the conversation where La Frugala is telling us that she has a dream of living in a little cottage, Georgetta will tell us that she has a different dream. She was born in the suburbs and she just wants to get out into Paris. Like I said, it's claustrophobic. In this particular scene, they're in Paris, but they're not in Paris. You're in this boat along the water of Paris, but she wants to enjoy the city life. And when she mentions the place where she was born, in the suburbs of Paris, wouldn't you know, it turns out that that's where Luigi was born too. And there's just another thing to knit these two individuals together, to connect them, to make them feel like they understand each other.
- [97:56]
Erica Minor
That's absolutely true. And when they finally come together in their love scene, it's totally evocative of the same kind of love scene in another Verisma opera, Pagliacci, those two lovers. So it's very poignant and ironic because even though Georgetta is being unfaithful to her husband, she's doing that for good reason. Because first of all, he's twice her age. Luigi may be a few years younger, but he provides what she needs. She needs love. She needs unconditional love, and that's what he is giving to her. And she's willing to take the risk of being discovered in their affairs by her husband. Just that's how consumed and swept away she is by Luigi and their relationship.
- [98:47]
Pat Wright
Absolutely. And we get a short scene, not full blown, no soaring romance, but a short scene of the passion between the two of them. Sa turn on me, mon. Well, of course, Luigi and Georgetta are not alone. Uninterrupted. At a moment, not entirely compromising, Michele comes up. Her husband comes up and says, what, haven't you gone yet? He says to Luigi, still doing here? He's like, oh, sir, I was waiting around to talk to you. I think I'd like you to drop me off in our next stop, Rouen. I'd like to find some other work. And Michele says, you're crazy. There's no work in Rouen. You better stay on until we can find a better place. Never mind that they're in Paris now, and he might find some work that's not addressed. But earlier, when the two were together, the two young people, Luigi and Georgetta, Georgetta has said to him, ah, Luigi, come back. I'm going to have to pretend to go to bed now with my husband, but come back and I'll. I'll do the usual. I'll light a match, you'll see a little flame, and you'll know that he's asleep and I'm here. He's an old guy, he needs to sleep is her take on all of that. And he leaves. And after Michele has put to rest this idea of Luigi leaving too soon, he's exhausted, he wants to go to bed. And she says she'll be down in a minute and a little more interaction between the two lovers. And she reminds him that she will give him the signal. And he knows that Michele is asleep and he can come and be with Georgetta. And we see a flash of masculine power and possessiveness when he pulls out his knife. Luigi does, to show Georgetta how Serious he is about protecting their relationship. He's like, I'll kill anyone who gets in the way. Well, that knife is part of this world of desperation and difficulty and looming violence. At any moment he leaves. Luigi leaves because Georgetta must prepare to go to bed with her husband. And before going down, she just lets us know, oh, it's so difficult to be happy. Which really feels like it sums up a lot of what they're saying in this entire show.
- [102:22]
Erica Minor
I completely agree. I find that the central idea of the entire story, so difficult to be happy.
- [102:29]
Pat Wright
Yeah. And Michele will say to her about this comment about Luigi leaving and how he talked and he says, I don't really have enough work for the three men. She said, well, fine, fire the guy who's always drinking. And Michele says, well, he has to drink, of course, because his wife is a tramp and otherwise he would kill her. Well, side note, in the original play, we do see her in the background with other men. And there's a double murder. In the original play. It's not just the murder we're going to have in the opera, it's also the fact that this man murders his wife. La Rugele gets murdered as well. Well, Puccini and his librettist dispensed with that. We've got to keep things tight in this one act opera, but I think that's a fascinating insight. So there are hints to that in this libretto, but that's not what's going to happen here, just hints that everyone's miserable.
- [103:27]
Erica Minor
Could I just say that also, when it comes to murder, murder always has a motivation. As she segues to overture to murder, murder always has a motivation. And that's one of the things that needs to be explored in either a murder mystery or an opera that has murder as its core, as it were. And so the motivation, which, as you said, Puccini and his librettist didn't have time to include in this one act opera, you could say the motivation is that Frugala sees these other men because she needs to escape from the fact that she's married to an alcoholic and all that entails all that misery. So she has her motivation for being unfaithful, her husband has motivation for murdering her, as does Michele have the same kind of motivation for murdering Georgetta's lover?
- [104:23]
Pat Wright
Absolutely. And that's a great transition to the motivation that we're going to learn that Georgetta has for being unfaithful. It's not the same motivation that La Frugala has that he's a Drunkard and possibly very difficult, abusive to live with. Georgetta responds to Michele when the two of them are alone here after everyone else has left. He says, why don't you love me? Me anymore? Why? It's. It's rather heartbreaking for this man. And she says, oh, I do love you. But then she says, which I find very powerful. You're kind. You're honest. So she's got no gripes with the way he treats her. And she. She wants to cut that conversation short. She says that one nice thing. Wants to cut it short, says, I'm going to bed. He's like, but you never sleep. And she says, well, you know why I can't sleep. It's just too. Too tight down there. I can't breathe. And he says, I don't think it's the weather. The weather is better. And then Michele is the one who brings up to my mind what's at the heart of the matter. And he says, well, last year, there were three of us in there. The two of us, plus our baby. And she is just so sad at the mention of this. Or she. She lets the sadness come out in what she says and just tells him, be quiet. He goes on. He doesn't stop talking about the baby. And he spends quite a lot of time talking about how much love there was in their life and how she loved him and how there was this baby, but the baby died, and he is there no more. Yeah. He says, when. When the breeze would stir in those days, I would wrap you in my cloak. My cloak would envelop all three of us, and we would be such a happy, snug little family, and Georgetta just can't go there.
- [106:23]
Erica Minor
The reality is that ever since the loss of that child, the marriage has not been the same. And that is happened. It happens so often in a marriage with the loss of a child that a marriage dissolves because of that kind of grief, when two people either come together closer or they completely lose connection with each other. And that's the case. They have lost that connection because of the loss of that child, which neither of them will ever recuperate from. It's tragic.
- [106:56]
Pat Wright
It is profoundly tragic. And you can see Michele doesn't fully understand her, but he is trying here to be kind and warm and comforting, and he tries to get close to her, and she just. She can't do it. She just can't do it as he tries to embrace her and recall those happier days. And you're so right. It is just more than she is able to Overcome. And I don't know if she's self destructive by her relationship with Luigi, if it's escapist, but that's her motivation, I believe, for seeking out this other man who has no connection to that past tragedy.
- [107:38]
Erica Minor
I think everything you said is true. It's a matter of escapism. It's her not being able to bear her grief, but also to find someone who has no connection with that tragic circumstance of her life. And that is another thing that ties all three of these operas together, because in the next operas where Angelica, it's also about the loss of a child. So I think that Puccini was definitely thinking about that when he wanted to have all these operas produced and performed together as one. Triptit.
- [108:13]
Pat Wright
Yeah, well. And after he's unsuccessful, comforting her, bringing her closer, she's like, good night, I'm going to bed. And it hits like a thunderbolt. I think the last thing that he says as she's departing and out of earshot is slut. So he's not seeing her broken heart at this moment, he's seeing her finding comfort in another man. And of course, just to rub salt in the wound.
- [108:39]
Erica Minor
Yes. Just at that moment, you can see and hear two lovers coming by, singing about how much they're madly in love with each other. And they have this atmosphere of the most dramatic aspects of Paris. Paris is for lovers, as they say. And so in the context of all this bitter kind of conversation going on between Giorgetta and Michele, then the irony is there are other lovers who are still in love with each other. And that in itself is almost too much to bear.
- [109:12]
Pat Wright
Yes. And once they have passed by, we have Michele alone, processing his thoughts. And it's dark. It's very dark because here he is looking at the sen and he's telling the sen. Drag me in, engulf me. Your waves can soothe sorrows by marking an end to all of the misery. It's. Yeah, it's powerful stuff. Yeah.
- [109:40]
Erica Minor
I think it leads to his taking revenge. He either can, on the one hand, have a death wish, but his death wish ends up being perpetrated on the person who he thinks is a source of his misery and also the source of happiness that he cannot give. Georgetta. And that's Luigi.
- [109:59]
Pat Wright
Yeah, he really. It's turning him on himself. And then he turns it outward. All of this despair.
- [110:05]
Erica Minor
Exactly.
- [110:06]
Pat Wright
Yeah. And part of the turning it outwards is when he looks through the window and he sees that look, she's not even getting ready for bed. She's still dressed what's going on here? Who is it? And he even runs through the three men who are the stevedores, going through the other two until he lands on Luigi. At first, he doesn't want to believe it. Doesn't truly want to believe it, or at least that's how he expresses himself in this song. He's like, couldn't be. He asked to leave. Well, we know that Luigi asked to leave because it's a hopeless situation and he needed to get away from it. And he lets us know, as he focuses on the fact that Luigi is the one who's giving his wife some comfort, that Luigi smiles at my pain. So he's really working himself up.
- [110:51]
Erica Minor
The motivation for murder.
- [110:53]
Pat Wright
The motivation for murder. And here's the opportunity. In the ruminations that he has, he does what he always does when he's out thinking, he lights his pipe. Well, you need a match to light a pipe. And that is the sign for Luigi to come back to Georgetta. Poor Luigi, he's misinterpreted the match. It's not Georgetta's match, it's Michele's.
- [111:15]
Erica Minor
The ultimate irony.
- [111:16]
Pat Wright
Again, it's just heartbreaking. Luigi is instantly caught by Michele and forces him to confess. The knife is dispensed with very quickly. Luigi tries to pull it out, but Michele, strong man, working on the docks all these years, he's able to get rid of the knife. And he's in the process of strangling Luigi and forces him to confess. I think anyone in that position would confess whether it was true or not. But when he says repeatedly, at Michele's insistence, yes, I love her, I love her, the life is going out of him as he's being strangled gruesomely by Michele. And he must have him saying it right up until Luigi's body has no life left in it.
- [112:03]
Erica Minor
That's a shocker. The whole thing is shocking in the classic verisma way. There's always a shocking murder at the end.
- [112:11]
Pat Wright
Yes, and the shock's not over. So, as a mystery writer, can you tell us about the very ending? It doesn't end with Luigi's death. There's more suffering to be had.
- [112:23]
Erica Minor
Well, this is a sign of a truly masterful writer you think you've seen, as shocking as it can be. And yet that's nothing compared to the shock of Georgetta when she comes upon them and discovers that her husband has murdered her lover. That is something that every mystery writer dreams of being able to do, is to portray that kind of shock at the end.
- [112:47]
Pat Wright
And the Drama will tease us a little bit before she discovers this body, because she's come up and she's. She's a little sheepish. She's a little bit wanting to reconcile in some degree with Michele. She's like, oh, I'm so sorry. I. I'm full of remorse. I shouldn't have made you suffer. And it's too late. Michele knows where this has gone, but she doesn't yet know. She's trying to say, okay, maybe I have to get back into real life. And you think, oh, these two might have had a chance if we hadn't just had the scene we've witnessed. But it's too late.
- [113:25]
Erica Minor
Again, irony.
- [113:27]
Pat Wright
Well, the libretto will tell us not only does she discover his body, but she discovers his body because Michele has opened up his cloak to invite her in for some warmth. And it is in moving the cloak, which he had hastily put on the body of Luigi, that she sees it. And Michele forces her down so she has to put her face on Luigi's body.
- [113:52]
Erica Minor
It's just horrifying. It's not only shocking, but it's horrifying that he figuratively plunges the knife in even further by making her confront the body of her lover. And then cut to black. Like, it's so masterfully done.
- [114:08]
Pat Wright
It is so masterfully done. And as someone who enjoys stories wondering about car, it's not like she's not died. Her husband has not died. Where do these two go from here? Well, there's no drama of that that we get to witness here. It's cut to black. Once she is forced to confront what her husband has done, it's really.
- [114:28]
Erica Minor
And it's quite, quite crazy in a lot of ways when you think of that ending. Then you get an intermission and you go to a convent in Swarangelica where everything seems to be just so ideal. And all of the nuns seem so happy in what they're doing.
- [114:47]
Pat Wright
Only for a little while.
- [114:49]
Erica Minor
Yeah. Then you get to what's really behind it all. But it's just amazing. That kind of shock goes into ultimately another shock. And, yeah, Puccini knew what he was doing.
- [115:01]
Pat Wright
Yeah. A man of the theater.
- [115:03]
Erica Minor
Oh, yes.
- [115:04]
Pat Wright
Well, hooray for Puccini and hooray for you, Erica Minor. Your beautiful book, Overture to Murder, the third in the opera mystery series with Julia Kogan. I recommend it. And everyone please enjoy it. Read up on all three, you'll have a blast. Erica, I cannot thank you enough for joining me today on this episode of Opera for everyone.
- [115:28]
Erica Minor
Thank you, Pat. It's just been an absolute pleasure, unmitigated pleasure, to be able to speak with you and to talk about opera and drama, books, murder, all of it. It all goes together so beautifully when it comes to opera.
- [115:43]
Pat Wright
Thank you.
- [117:05]
Erica Minor
E.
- [117:40]
Pat Wright
Thanks for listening to this episode of Opera for Everyone. I'm Pat Wright, joined today by author Erica Minor. Opera for Everyone airs every Sunday morning from 9 to 11 Mountain Time on 89.1 K Hol in Jackson, Wyoming. If you've missed any of today's show, you can find this episode and many more on Opera for Everyone's podcast. And if you subscribe and rate us, you'll be helping with our mission to bring Opera for Everyone by helping others to find this show. After all, Opera is for Everyone.