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- [00:00]
Unknown Speaker
Foreign.
- [00:14]
Pat Wright
Welcome to another edition of Opera for Everyone. I am your host, Pat Wright, and I am here once again with Kathleen Vanderwille. Welcome, Kathleen.
- [00:23]
Kathleen Vanderwille
So glad to be here and talking about another Romeo and Juliet adaptation.
- [00:28]
Pat Wright
Yes, we have made a mission to cover several. Trust me, there are more that we're not doing than the ones that we are doing. Romeo and Juliet is a popular source for plays, movies, all kinds of artistic endeavors. We're on our third Romeo and Juliet story.
- [00:47]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes, this is E Capuletti a e Montecchi by Bellini. Very exciting.
- [00:55]
Pat Wright
The Capulets and the Montagues. It didn't originally have that name when he started writing it. Originally it was just Juliet's name, Juliet Capuleti. But it's the Capulets and the Montagues here. And this one is only five years after the Romeo and Juliet that we most recently discussed. For those of you who want to catch up, if this is the first one that you're hearing, our first endeavor with Romeo and Juliet was the one that's very much based on Shakespeare, the Gounod, and that was episode 120, Gounod, a French composer hewed very closely to the William Shakespeare story. But of course, Shakespeare based his story on Italian sources. There's several of them and several interpretations of this medieval story. We spoke about Julieta e Romeo by Nicola Va call on episode 124, just shortly before this one that we're discussing now. And that makes perfect sense because it's in fact the same librettist and it's a reworking of the same libretto that Felice Romani had done for Vicay just five years later.
- [02:08]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes, the Vicay Opera was five years earlier, in 1825. And we know, as we discussed on our episode about the Vicai, that sometimes, even frequently, Bellini's opera, the last act, was replaced with Vicai's last act instead. So there seems to have been a lot of synergy between these two works, both in time and in production.
- [02:31]
Pat Wright
It's a fascinating example of the power that the performers had in these shows because it was the mezzo soprano who's playing the role of Romeo, who's. No, I like much better what Vicai wrote. And one singer in particular in 1839, Maria Malibran, who was playing Romeo, she simply said, no, we will not do the Bellini at the end. I prefer the Vicai. And she did the whole Bellini opera. But in the final tomb scene, she inserts the entire bit from Vikai. It fits. Fit in terms of the drama, but not in terms of being the same composer's music. But that became a very popular substitution. One critic calls it the pastiche a la malibran. Not everyone did it, not even in the 19th century. But it was a fascinating look at the different ways that operas were produced in the Bel Canto period.
- [03:33]
Kathleen Vanderwille
It is fascinating and I think reflects a larger shift in ideas around copyrights and copyright protections during this time. Just from my literature studies, copyright was very much in a liminal time where people could just take your work and insert it in with another novel or take a version of a Shakespeare play and change the ending. And the idea of something is owned and a wholly complete product didn't really exist at this time. You can see that reflected in the way that different art forms were so mutable. Then, of course, when copyright laws started to be much more strict or came into place, we start to see this really going away.
- [04:12]
Pat Wright
There's the sense that the public, particularly in Italy, expected new works every season. Now it seems like it's a big deal when a major opera house will give us a brand new work, we celebrate it. I'm personally thrilled always to see a new work, but we also look for some of the old favorites or older pieces that are being revived with a new light. It's a different attitude towards opera and the integrity of the work itself. They had a lot more fun playing around with things, but this was beyond that, having a little bit of fun. This was a major diss to Bellini. Bellini, who, by the way, died young. He was just 34 when he died, and he wasn't there to defend his legacy, so it was left to others.
- [04:59]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Well, hopefully it's no longer seen as an insult to him. Today we can recognize the greatness of both works, and we're excited to discuss Bellini's version. Very similar in some ways, in the sense that it does use the same libretto, but has some key differences, which I'm excited to talk about. Yeah.
- [05:19]
Pat Wright
Yes, it. It is the same librettist. We should explain that they weren't just being lazy. Bellini, who typically took about a year to compose an opera, he was not like the other bel canto big names that we know. Donizetti, Rossini, who would produce several. Well, and Pacini is also a name we don't hear so much anymore, but he was very prolific as well. They would produce two, three, four operas a year. Bellini never did that. He said, I take longer. He demanded a higher price because his time, so much time was put into it. But in this particular Instance, the creation of this opera was done in a short time frame. Let's kick off our opera by getting a sense of setting the scene and similar to the vicai we start with, with the chorus. Actually, it's not uncommon at all in operas to start with the chorus setting the scene and giving us a tone.
- [06:22]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes, the chorus is. They are comprised of the courtiers, the members of court for Capelio Capuleti, which is a very hard name to say. Together they are his kinsmen and his courtiers. And they are talking about the fact that there has been an awful offer of peace, which we'll discuss a little bit later from Romeo, but they are not inclined to accept it. And they are setting the scene for this conflict that has been going on for quite some time between these two families, the Capuletes and the Montecchis. And they are in a. A very martial, very violent mood. I would.
- [07:12]
Unknown Speaker
Sh. Jam.
- [10:08]
Pat Wright
You're listening to Opera for everyone. And that was the opening choral piece from Vincenzo Bellini's I Cappulette e I Montecchi. The Capulets and the Montagues. And that is the Capulet chorus. They're psyching up for conflict with the Montagues, the rival clan. Indeed.
- [10:29]
Kathleen Vanderwille
And we know from what we're about to hear that this has been a rivalry, a hatred of long standing. And there has been a recent event that has turned the tide in the Montecchi's favorite, which is that somebody who we don't know, this guy's name is Ezzolino.
- [10:50]
Pat Wright
He'll never be mentioned again in this.
- [10:52]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah, we'll never see him. But he's important. He's sort of a hinge point here. He starts the action. He has defected from the Capulet camp, the Capuleti camp, and gone to the Mantekis and has been revealed as a supporter of the Mantekis. He has an army behind him. And so this is a big point in the Mantakis favor.
- [11:16]
Pat Wright
Right. And it's. It's also important that they mention the Ghibellines, the Guelphs. The. The Montagues are Ghibellines. The Capulets are Guelphs. The Ghibellines support the prominence, the power of the Holy Roman Emperor, whereas the Guelphs support the Pope. So it's political right here in the beginning. This famous love story begins in a very political vein, which Shakespeare will taken.
- [11:40]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Subsume quite a bit in his version of Romeo and Juliet. It becomes more of a local family dispute rather than this grand place it's in right now. It's a war between not just two families, but more like two countries. Almost two counties could go to war against each other. I think maybe that's a good way of thinking about it.
- [12:02]
Pat Wright
Or even bigger than that. Think of the overarching power in Europe of the Pope, of the Holy Roman Emperor. It's a very large region that we're talking about.
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Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah.
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Pat Wright
I was thinking recently, you know how west side Story is a take on this Romeo and Juliet. It becomes even more condensed, smaller in terms of scope.
- [12:25]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah. This story really does fluctuate between how much we want to focus on our two lovers as representatives of a larger conflict, a larger world, a larger set of evils against each other, or we want to take it and make that literal. And I think that the more we advance in time, the more they become metaphorical and they become more representatives of a larger conflict. But you're right. I mean, west side Story is as local as it gets. I think it all takes place on.
- [12:53]
Pat Wright
One city block, and it doesn't really even involve the adults. It's just these gangs of kids. It really brings it in close and tight, and it's not. It doesn't have that. Well, think of the. The Shakespeare and the prologue and the epilogue about the families warring, and if the families could just calm down and work it out. But in west side Story, it's really these gangs and the kids in these gangs. And the only adult presence that I recall anyway is the police. And they're just like, you kids, knock it off. You're making things terrible here. I don't know. That just popped into my head when we're thinking about what a broad conflict this is that these two groups are representing.
- [13:36]
Kathleen Vanderwille
It's true. But we also know there's a personal element which, you know, which does very much track with the more recent versions. I guess I'm saying recent in quotes because I'm counting Shakespeare as recent.
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Pat Wright
Sure.
- [13:49]
Kathleen Vanderwille
When in fact, it's the opposite for this. But, yeah, there is also this sense of this is a larger conflict. This is the Guelphs, this is the Ghibellines. But also, Romeo has killed a member of Cappelletti's family. He has killed his son.
- [14:04]
Pat Wright
Yes.
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Kathleen Vanderwille
And so it is both larger and smaller in terms of locality.
- [14:10]
Pat Wright
That's fair. And we pretty quickly turn to that. That very fact. Tybalt shows up. Tebaldo shows up, and he is ready for revenge. He is ready to take on the Montagues. But he reminds Capelio, the patriarch of the clan here, that the leader of the Montagues. Romeo, he's a military leader. Romeo, Tybalt reminds Coppelio, yes, I will get this man. Romeo, who killed your son, deprived you of a son.
- [14:43]
Kathleen Vanderwille
And another big difference from the Shakespeare, from the version that most people know of this story, and this was the same in Vicai, but worth noting. Tebaldo is not. He's not a cousin figure. He is directly Juliet's betrothed in the Vicai. He's the person that Capuletti wants to betroth her to and is trying to convince her. And it's the same here. This cuts out sort of a middle character, this character of Paris that is in the Shakespeare. I've always liked having that character because he is sort of an outsider who's able to come into this family conflict and give this outside perspective where he just wants to marry Juliet and he doesn't really have a. He's not a Montior Capulet. So I've always appreciated his character in that sense. But it does make things quite easy here to just have it be directly. Tybalt is the head of the military arm of the Capuleti family and her betrothed. And it is an easy narrative foil to Romeo, who is the same for the Montagues.
- [15:50]
Pat Wright
Yes. And here, right in the beginning, instead of seeing in action Romeo killing the kinsman of Juliet, here we are told it's already happened. Romeo has killed Juliet's brother. Here it's being explained as capelio, Romeo killed your son, so there can't be any peace negotiations with that fresh wound is how they see it.
- [16:16]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Now, there's one additional character in here. He is sort of an outsider because we know that he has connections to both the Montagues and Capulets, although the Capulets don't really know that. But that's Lawrence. This is Friar Lawrence in the Shakespeare you know him as. But in this, he is more of an advisor and a doctor for the Capulets. And he is a connection to Juliet. He's taking care of her and she's quite ill at this point, but she, through her relationship with him, is able to contact Romeo at certain points throughout the story.
- [16:51]
Pat Wright
And here he's advocating. Right in the beginning, he's advocating to the Capulets or to Coppelio in charge himself. Hey, they've made an offer of peace. They are sending an ambassador. Why don't you listen? Wouldn't it be great if we ended all this fighting, this feud? Let's just see if they make a proposal we can live with so that we can have peace.
- [17:15]
Kathleen Vanderwille
And it's unfortunate because you can see here, there is a window for that peace, because Romeo wants to broker that peace, because he knows he has to do it in order to be with Juliet. So, honestly, their secret relationship has opened a window towards peace that has never existed during this conflict, as far as we know. But there are too many other things that are in motion for that to be a palatable recommendation. As much as Lawrence tries, Capuleti is not to be moved. He says, my blood has not been avenged, my son, his death has not been avenged until Romeo was killed himself. And he mentions too, that Romeo has been entering Verona in disguise. So we get this idea that he knows that Romeo has been in disguise, has infiltrated his town before, and that, of course, is how he's met Juliet. And Tebaldo sings this beautiful piece about his vengeance, that he is the one who's going to avenge the death of the son in order to celebrate his marriage to Julieta. So he's tying these two things together, the vengeance and his love for her.
- [18:31]
Pat Wright
Yeah, it's interesting that here, Romani, our librettist, has just slipped in very subtly. What we more or less know is that Juliet and Romeo are already in love. We don't have that falling in love scene. When we think of Shakespeare's version, that's a big part of the beginning of the play, when they fall in love. That's all happened off stage beforehand. The death of Juliet's kinsman has happened, the falling in love of Romeo and Juliet. And there's just here this quick mention. Oh, I've heard that Romeo has entered our. Our city in disguise. And they also don't know what Romeo looks like. So that's going to come up quite soon. But Tybalt, he is an interesting character, a tenor in this opera. And let's get a little taste of his passion for vengeance, his role as the military leader, and also trying to impress Coppelio with his manliness as he seeks the daughter's hand.
- [19:57]
Unknown Speaker
Ship.
- [21:13]
Kathleen Vanderwille
That was Tebaldo singing about his lust for vengeance. But he has more than one side to him. He is an interesting character. He's complex in a way that I appreciate in this version. In a lot of versions, he's not really that complex a character. He's got one drive, which is vengeance, which is violence. But he also has love for Juliet. He is not just marrying her for political reasons. In a moment, he's gonna sing about his love for her. He says, I love her so much. She's so dear to me. If anything I did were to cost her a single second of sadness, I would rather choose to be in sorrow for a thousand days, which is fine words that perhaps are not borne out by actions later on. And we know that there's strife between the two of them, because obviously we know that it's about Romeo and Juliet, but also Friar Lawrence. Sorry, not Friar Lawrence. Dr. Lawrence says you cannot marry her right now. You know that, right? Because she's very ill. She has a high fever, she's languishing, she's wasting away. That if you want to marry her now, you'd have to force her to the altar. And Tebaldo says, of course, I would never do that. I love her. And then we get this outpouring of his love for her.
- [22:30]
Pat Wright
Yes. And the other men on stage will also join in, and we get a sense of Tybalt's love. But the love that the entire community bears for Juliet. Here in Vincenzo Bellini's take on the Romeo and Juliet story, I Capulete, Ei Montecchi, the whole community of the Capulets love Juliet. She is ill, but her father, Coppelio, will not delay the marriage between his daughter Juliet and his leader of the military, Tebaldo. He's very stern.
- [24:21]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes. He is unmoved by Lawrence's pleas that she is not just unwilling, but ill. And it's implied that what's making her ill is the fact that she doesn't want to do this marriage. And he says to Lawrence, he says, go and prepare her for the ceremony. He says, I want it completed before sunset. So our timing here is very truncated, too. This is all happening in. Presumably in one to two days. He is not taking anything in terms of excuses from Lawrence. It is up to her to do her duty and to put a happy face on it. Basically. Go get her ready.
- [25:00]
Pat Wright
Yes. He is a powerful patriarch. He knows it. And it's really clear that his daughter needs to just do what he wants his daughter to do.
- [25:10]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes. And this is a little bit different from the Vikai. We noted in our conversation about the Vikai, that there is almost a little bit of a modern ish element to some of what her father says. There's this idea that he wants her to be happy, in love, in marriage. And he even says at one point, although perhaps he doesn't mean it, that he wouldn't marry her to somebody that she didn't want. Not here, that as long as it's. As long as it's not somebody like Romeo, an enemy, she could choose who she wanted. But there's not even really a hint of that here. He says Juliet couldn't possibly want something different for me. That he doesn't even see it as possible.
- [25:50]
Pat Wright
She will care about the things I care about.
- [25:52]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes.
- [25:53]
Pat Wright
My opinions are her opinions. He is a much harder character here in this particular rendition, even in the one from five years earlier, with the same librettist. He is unrelenting. My will is all. Now we know what kind of man Capulet is. His word is law. He rules with an iron fist. And his daughter should have no thoughts that are her own, should only do what he says. And the men around him are encouraging him on because this feud is important. It's important to them. Enter the ambassador from the Montagues.
- [27:30]
Kathleen Vanderwille
So we know if we are looking at the libretto, that it is Romeo. Indeed. But it is a secret as to who this is, because he is someone in disguise. They don't know who he is. And I guess technically, we, the audience, wouldn't know who he is. Although they might.
- [27:44]
Pat Wright
Except we do.
- [27:47]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes. Well, when a mezzo soprano entrevesti shows up, it's probably somebody important.
- [27:54]
Pat Wright
Yes. Worth letting everyone know. When we hear Romeo sing. It's a mezzo soprano. It's long been a mezzo soprano. Quick diversion on this. This is the period of time when having a castrato for your main character is not a thing anymore. But. But it is still in the minds of people, that these heroic romantic leading figures should have a high and brilliant voice. So you do get these lead male characters being sung by women. In fact, sometimes women sang them in the older operas that were written for a castrato, because that's who they could get to sing the roles. But there is a period of time in here, and this is right where we are towards the end of it in 1830, that you have women taking these romantic lead roles, particularly if the character is young. Romeo is young. He's not as young as 14 or 15, but because he is commanding an army, but he is a young man. And here sung by a mezzo soprano, a trouser role. Important to know when we hear these songs with Romeo and also when we hear them together with Juliet, it's a very special sound. One side note is that in 1966, in a revival of this show, there was an infamous outing where they transposed the Romeo piece to make it fit a tenor. Because in the mid 20th century, we expected our romantic leads to be tenors, the men.
- [29:29]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Right.
- [29:30]
Pat Wright
But it didn't work because this was written for those two voices. And we will, as we go along, when we have the two of those characters together, Romeo and Juliet. It's exquisite when you hear the two voices together, the way it was written. And it was reasonably roundly condemned when they transposed it for a tenor to sing this role. And all recent productions have been with the mezzo soprano in the role. But that's Romeo on stage now in the guise of the ambassador for the Montagues.
- [30:03]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes, and as expected, he is trying to bring peaceful words, offers of friendship. But the Capuletes are not. They are not open to it. We know this already. Romeo proposes directly that in order to have a lasting peace and to have equality between the two families in Verona, that Giulietta marry Romeo. That you have a coming together of these two houses in that way, which is not at all unusual in this time period, in Shakespeare's time period, and indeed in the time period of Bellini's opera, that would be an obvious solution. To have the heads of state, as it were, or their children marry each other to solidify a piece. And it worked a lot of the time.
- [30:50]
Pat Wright
Yeah, and it had for hundreds and hundreds of years, but not here.
- [30:54]
Kathleen Vanderwille
In fact, Capuleti in many ways is being sort of a bad leader, I think, in. In a way by rejecting this, because we know that the forces of the. The traitor Ezzolino are vast and that the tide of the war is turning against the Capelletti. So this isn't an opportunity for them to escape with their lives and to have equal standing in their own city instead of to be completely overtaken by the Montagues.
- [31:22]
Pat Wright
But honor. Honor forbids it.
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Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes, honor, and I think personal animus forbids it.
- [31:28]
Pat Wright
So Capulet says, there is a fatal barrier of blood between us and it will never be lifted. There's too much death. We can't cross that blood barrier. He says, yes, it's very dark.
- [31:43]
Kathleen Vanderwille
And Romeo tries. He implores them to listen. He says, if Romeo, if my lord killed your son, it was in battle. It wasn't as if he stabbed in the back or even fought a one on one duel. It's just this was battle. It happens. That is fate's fault, not mine or his. And he says, Romeo weeps over this once again, asserting that this is fate, this is not his will. And he offers Romeo as another son to Cappelletti. But Cappelletti says, I already have another son, I have Tevaldo. And that's when Romeo really understands that this is a lost cause.
- [32:20]
Pat Wright
Right. Well, let's listen to a little bit of this piece that Romeo sings where he is expressing remorse, grief for having killed Capulet's son because he knows he's killed Juliet's brother. And we get a little sense of the pathos there, because even though the other characters on stage don't realize he's talking about himself, he is, in fact, talking about himself and the regret. And I'm a soldier. These things happened. I am sorry. Let me be your son is essentially what he's saying. Sa well, as Kathleen mentioned a moment ago, Romeo's remorseful, pleading, diplomatic attitude is going to be cut short because the Capulet chorus will all sing together that they want war, war, war.
- [34:16]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes. And Romeo knows there is no arguing with what's essentially becoming a mob of people who are bent on violence. So he says, regretfully, there's so much blood that's going to be spilled in vain. You all are obstinate men. But he shifts his attitude once he realizes that this isn't going to work. And he becomes the general, you know, he becomes that version of himself. And the music reflects that. He lets them know exactly what's going to happen, that they're going to be beaten by this army and they've lost their chance for peace.
- [34:53]
Pat Wright
Yeah. And we will end this scene with lots of sound and emotion from everyone on stage. Romeo, Tybalt, Capulet, and all of the chorus of the Capulet people. Of course, we keep saying Romeo, but it is the ambassador at this point in time.
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Kathleen Vanderwille
Ra.
- [35:45]
Unknown Speaker
Sa.
- [36:28]
Pat Wright
Well, that was a big finish to the first scene where everyone's getting ready for conflict. But before we move to our next scene, I. I promised I would tell you a little bit about how. How and why Bellini, who insisted on having ample time and money for producing an opera, how he ended up in a very compressed timeline. Because having the compressed timeline is how he ended up having Romani rework a libretto for a recently successful opera. The Vicai, Juliet and Romeo. It's because Bellini was on his way up as a composer. He is one of our three great bel canto composers, along with Rossini and Donizetti. But he is still establishing himself. He has had some real successes, particularly at La Scala, Il Pirata, the Pirate Woman. There's also one called the Foreign Woman. These were very popular and were played many times. He really wanted to see if he could get a commission from the impresario of Teatra Lafanice in Venice. And it didn't work out because he was asking for too Much money. And he's like, why should I do that if I can get Pacini for a much lower price? So those negotiations fell apart. But as time went on and we're getting close to this, this Carnival season, this season before Lent, when most operas are being premiered, the impresario was starting to get nervous. He said, well, Pacini, who he had engaged to write the opera, he's also got other commissions, and those theaters might have a little more prestige than mine. So he engages Bellini to do a revival of Il Pirata. And so Bellini is present in Venice. And more and more, this empresario, Alessandro Linari, is getting nervous because Piccini hasn't produced and time is running short. He knows he's got this other opera, and he makes a sort of contingency plan with Bellini. He says, listen, could I give you more money than I really want to give you, but not as much as you want to be on hand, just in case Pacini falls through, because it looks like he's going to. And Bellini insisted that he had Felice Romani, this very prolific librettist, who, by the way, did Il Pirata, did the Foreign Woman also. And he ends up writing libretti for most, not all of the operas that Bellini writes. He has Romani on retainer, essentially. I mean, Romani is busy all the time. He's highly in demand. But Romani liked working with Bellini, too. Well, you know where this is going. Of course, it does fall through with this other composer. And Bellini and Romani have to put their heads together. How are we going to come up with an opera in a month and a half? Essentially, they do, and they do so by Romani saying, I can rework my Romeo and Juliet libretto. Bellini had a lot of specifics. A lot of the changes that are in this libretto versus the one that he wrote for Vicay were prompted by Bellini's needs and wants. And also, as it happens, Bellini had a flop, a failure recently behind him that was called Zaire. Just the year before, in 1829. It was a story about a Christian woman who falls in love with a Muslim sultan, based on, interestingly enough, a Voltaire work. Romani was the librettist for that. But. But in a way, Romani helped create it as a flop, believe it or not, because in the libretto, he had this. This author's note where he apologized for not doing a good job on the libretto. It was fascinating. I read some of that in one of my books. Wow. I don't think anyone would let a librettist do that in these days, I don't think anybody was happy about it. I know Bellini wasn't happy about it. It was not a successful opera. But Bellini knew that there was a lot of good music in that opera. So the way that they got around the short time and the demands and Bellini's own need to produce the kind of work that he was proud of is he uses quite a lot of music from Zaira. He uses actually a little bit of music from a much earlier opera as well. But he reworks this music to make it work with the text that he's provided by his friend and frequent librettist, Felice Romani. So that's how that ended up occurring. One other note is that the other person who had a Romeo and Juliet, their greatest success was his former teacher, who was in his late 70s at this time, Zignorelli. And before he actually proceeded on this course of action, Bellini wrote to his old teacher Zignorelli. He's a teacher. Yes. But his most successful opera was on Romeo and Juliet. And before he committed to this course of action, I. I just find this beautiful. He wrote to Zenorelli and said, I have so much respect for you. I love your work. I would like to treat this subject, but I only want to do it with your blessing, essentially, is what he wrote. And Signorelli, in the most gracious letter possible, said, yes, yes, please treat this subject. You're a wonderful composer. With my encouragement, do it. So everything was cleared, and that's how these two pulled it off in a short period of time, shorter than usual for them.
- [41:52]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Wow, that's incredible.
- [41:55]
Pat Wright
It's a fascinating story. Because he continues his practices to take longer and to demand more money. And after this success, he is more and more able to actually get the amount of money that he is asking of these impresarios.
- [42:10]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Do we have fewer operas from Bellini then? Since he took longer and died young? I would assume so, yes.
- [42:16]
Pat Wright
That's exactly right. He wrote about 10 operas, probably the most famous of which is Norma.
- [42:23]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Ah, like Pasta alla normal.
- [42:26]
Pat Wright
Yeah. That's not a coincidence. It is named for this opera that Bellini wrote, Norma.
- [42:32]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah. I had heard a story when I was watching a cooking show, not an opera show, but they mentioned that he is a native of Sicily, which is where Pasta alla Norma was invented, and they named it, saying it was both a masterpiece of a dish and a masterpiece of an opera. So it was sort of named after his masterpiece.
- [42:56]
Pat Wright
Beautiful. Yeah. So next time you see Norma, you can have some eggplant pasta. Well, also Iporitani is very famous of his. La Sonambula y Pirata. There's plenty here that we haven't mined yet for opera for everyone. So we'll get back to some of those in the future.
- [43:15]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Perhaps we'll go on a Bellini kick after this.
- [43:18]
Pat Wright
Yeah, yeah. Well, and of course, there's always the drink Bellini, but I don't know that that's related.
- [43:24]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Is that named after him too? Maybe. Maybe one. One food related thing is enough.
- [43:29]
Pat Wright
Probably enough, but. But that in contrast to his ten or so operas, Rossini, who stopped writing operas relatively early in his career for reasons I won't go into right now, he wrote 39 operas in 20 years. Donizetti, very prolific in the space of 28 years, wrote 70 operas. And Pacini, also a very popular Italian composer at this time, who we don't hear so much from these days, but in 40 years he wrote about 100 operas.
- [44:02]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Oh, my goodness.
- [44:04]
Pat Wright
So, yes, Bellini's pace was different, but he believed it was necessary. That's what he took to get the work done. And with this exception, he didn't reuse work the way that some of these other composers did in writing the music for the operas. Well, I think it's time for us to turn to this next scene. In the first act, we are with Juliet.
- [44:29]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes, it's about time that we. We meet our Julietta. We've been hearing the men squabble for far too long.
- [44:36]
Pat Wright
Yes.
- [44:37]
Kathleen Vanderwille
And yes, we meet her. She is immediately cast as this very sorrowful character. We don't see her really experiencing first love and joy the way that we do in the Shakespeare. There's always a level of apprehension because from very early on in their relationship, they both know that it is perhaps doomed. But in this, we come in, we meet her, and she is in sorrow. She's talking about how she's got these beautiful clothes on, this new dress that her father has had her put on in order to marry Teibaldo. And she describes herself as dressed like a sacrifice for an altar.
- [45:21]
Pat Wright
Yeah, that's how she feels.
- [45:23]
Kathleen Vanderwille
She feels as if she has no choices. And she does not want to marry Teibaldo. She wishes that instead of a wedding, they were to celebrate her funeral. So we are coming in with her at her lowest point, I would say. And she wants to know too, in this moment, where is Romeo? She asks. And this is of course echoed in Shakespeare's famous lines. Wherefore art thou, Romeo? There is a sense of that here. She's calling out to him in this song, wherever he may be.
- [45:57]
Pat Wright
Yeah, but it's a real different context for where are you, Romeo? Not just I miss you because I'm in love with you, but she's feeling like she's going to her death. Whether she in fact dies from this sickness or she's being a sacrificial lamb in this wedding that her father has arranged. Well, let's hear this song that she sings, probably the most famous from the entire opera, where she is beseeching heaven to help her.
- [48:42]
Unknown Speaker
Sa.
- [49:27]
Pat Wright
Juliet. Here in Bellini's opera, Juliet is languishing, asking heaven for some relief all by herself on stage. Another character will enter.
- [49:40]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes, our connector character, Lawrence, enters. He has come from her father, and he is now able to tell her what his plans are to prevent this horrible fate that she is afraid of. He has brought Romeo to her. She is lamenting, oh, everything is horrible. I'm declining. I'm pining away. If only I could see Romeo. And then Laurence says, okay, prepare yourself. He is in Verona. And he says, can you bear it? Can you bear joy right now better than your suffering? And he says, here's Romeo. And Romeo comes in by a secret door. And she is, of course, overjoyed.
- [50:21]
Pat Wright
Yeah. And this is the short time we get to see these two happy together.
- [50:26]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Sort of very bittersweet. I think what this lacks and which I've always loved about Shakespeare's play, is there is. There's just none of that playfulness and excitement about first love. We've missed that. We haven't seen that. Instead, we're just showing the sorrowful part of it where they've realized what the stakes are.
- [50:45]
Pat Wright
I need to tell you something that will surprise you. Not at all. But I think it's a fascinating little tidbit about this. The sense of this doomed love, right from the beginning, the whole time, they know it's doomed and it's dark and it's powerfully sad. A young Richard Wagner was conducting this particular opera and it is said, he has said, or people near him have said, that this is when he starts conceiving of his idea for his opera Tristan und Isolde.
- [51:16]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Oh, my God.
- [51:17]
Pat Wright
Another couple that have a doomed love.
- [51:20]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Another tear jerker.
- [51:23]
Pat Wright
Yeah. So out of this tragedy there's a spark of inspiration.
- [51:28]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes. For more tragedy.
- [51:31]
Pat Wright
For more tragedy, which is fine. That was a very big success in a much beloved opera of Wagner.
- [51:37]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Very much so, yes. There is great art in tragedy.
- [51:40]
Pat Wright
Yes. So thank you, Mr. Bellini, for that.
- [51:45]
Kathleen Vanderwille
The poor Romeo and Juliet that they don't even get a crumb of happiness, really. Because we do. Recommend. Juliet is saying she's deprived of hope, she's weak, she's physically ill. She calls herself near to the tomb. And Romeo says, I'm equally unhappy. I've been trying. I am also determined to either die or to save you and run away. And that's what he wants. He proposes that they flee.
- [52:11]
Pat Wright
He sees a glimmer of hope there.
- [52:14]
Kathleen Vanderwille
And the only glimmer, the only thing they can do is flee.
- [52:19]
Pat Wright
But she won't hear of it. That's the thing.
- [52:21]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah.
- [52:22]
Pat Wright
She will not hear of this fleeing. And he's dumbstruck by her resistance. Yeah.
- [52:29]
Kathleen Vanderwille
And it isn't. It isn't quite clear here what it is that holds her. I mean, she talks about duty, the law, honor, and that's what she's saying to convince him. But there is a sense of more. It's a more amorphous to her. When she first says why she can't go, she says, I am held here by a power stronger than love. There's this thing that won't let her go. And that's. It's her family's honor, which is a true tragedy. Because she's being used as a pawn in her family's power games here.
- [53:07]
Pat Wright
Yes.
- [53:08]
Kathleen Vanderwille
And is really made to suffer. But she remains faithful. She's really presented as this faithful character here to her father's will. Romeo, of course, does not take this well.
- [53:21]
Pat Wright
I feel like it's a real window into this being a female character of her time and as well as her father being a male character of his time, and Romeo a male character of his time. That the father says, my will is law. Romeo says, I see a solution. Action is required. Let's do it. And she knows that she is beholden to her father and must obey him. She is in love with Romeo, wants Romeo to be her husband. She wants to obey him. And she's simply torn between these two men. But her father has a lot of history, has a lot of time to have convinced her that his will is what matters most. And so she says, yes, duty, law and honor require me to stay here. That is what is more powerful than love.
- [54:16]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes. And she has no one else too, which I think is interesting in this. In the Shakespeare's version, she has a mother. Her mother's not very kind to her, but she still has a mother. She has a nurse that's a really key figure in her life and is her confidante. And she has a friar Lawrence, who's trying to bring them all to a good solution here. But in this she really she has Lawrence, but that's it. And we don't really ever see them converse that much. She seems to be a very lonely character, and she's also a girl who's lost a brother. She's already in mourning. And so although he calls her cruel for choosing her family over him, she doesn't really see it that way. She sees it more as she sees her death as inevitable. Even now, she doesn't see the hope that he does. And so they're ready for whatever may come. Or she is ready for whatever may come.
- [55:09]
Pat Wright
That's right. And even though she can't take the action that Romeo is asking her to take, and she feels she must follow her father's instructions, there's no happiness for her in that. There's no salvation in being a dutiful daughter. It's just all doom and gloom and death awaiting her. And it just hurts Romeo so much that this can't work out for them. Here is an opportunity for us to hear a little bit of the interaction of these two characters and this soprano and mezzo soprano voice. Let us hear a little bit of Juliet and Romeo as their passion for each other is clear, but the difficulty of their circumstances is not going to be overcome.
- [58:09]
Unknown Speaker
Sat welcome to Opera for Everyone, a.
- [58:36]
Pat Wright
Radio show and podcast that makes opera understandable, accessible and enjoyable for everyone. I'm your host today, Pat Wright, joined by special guest co host Kathleen Vandewyl.
- [58:48]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Opera for Everyone airs Sundays from 9 to 11am Mountain Time on 89.1 KHOL in Jackson, Wyoming. KHOL is Wyoming's only community radio station.
- [59:00]
Pat Wright
If you like what you hear, please subscribe to the Opera for Everyone podcast and when you go, you can find a rich trove of past episodes.
- [59:07]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Stay with us. The second half of today's show is coming right up.
- [59:41]
Pat Wright
Welcome back to the second half of Opera for Everyone. I'm your host Pat Wright and I'm here with Kathleen Vanderwil.
- [59:48]
Kathleen Vanderwille
It is so nice to be with you again, Pat. For another Romeo and Juliet. I love these. I know we're maybe coming to the end of our list of Romeo and Juliet, but they have always been a joy to talk about.
- [60:01]
Pat Wright
Well, I have one more that I have in mind for us to discuss, but we'll see. We'll let everyone know about that soon. But we are currently discussing Vincenzo Bellini's take on Romeo and Juliet. I Capuleti e imuntechi Capulets in the Montagues. Before we go any further with discussion of our story, I would like to take a moment to thank the people involved in the creation of this lovely CD that we've been listening to today. This was a recording made in 1997 by the Munich Radio Orchestra, led by Roberto Abbado, and it features the choir of the Bavarian Radio Orchestra.
- [60:42]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Romeo is sung by Veselina Casarova. Giulietta by Eva May Debaldo by Ramon Vargas, Capelio by Umberto Cumo, Lorenzo by Simone Albergini.
- [60:58]
Pat Wright
Thank you everyone for this beautiful music that we've been listening to today. I also want to mention, for those of you who haven't checked out Constructive Criticism, that is Kathleen's blog that she writes. It's on Substack. Constructive Criticism, Kathleen Vanderwille. And it is a wonderful way to be reminded of old works of art, tv, movies, books, and find out about new ones. Kathleen, tell us a little bit more about Constructive Criticism.
- [61:30]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Sure. Yes, that's my newsletter on the Substack platform. I tend to do two different kinds of posts. On Mondays I give you what are my short recommendations for your week ahead. And then on Wednesdays I do a deeper dive sort of essay about one topic. And I'm trying to be very regular with it. So when you hear this, I hope there are new Monday and Wednesday posts.
- [61:53]
Pat Wright
Well, it's a big task. You watch and read a lot of things. I don't know how you find the time for it.
- [62:00]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes, I don't either, honestly. Not a lot of sleep, I think, is the answer. But I. I watch so you don't have to. That's what one of my friends said. But I also watch so that you can watch what you do want to. And I try to give some content warnings and try to tell people what I think they would like to watch if they've watched other things too, to put it in context.
- [62:20]
Pat Wright
So that's so helpful.
- [62:22]
Kathleen Vanderwille
There's too much out there, but I hope it helps.
- [62:26]
Pat Wright
Yeah, it totally does. That's Constructive Criticism. Kathleen Vandewille. Thank you. All right, Kathleen, it's that time. Opera helmet quiz time. Do you want to fill us in on what's gone on so far in our story?
- [62:38]
Kathleen Vanderwille
I would love to. So it is our classic story of Romeo and Juliet. With a few tweets, we are introduced to the Capulet patriarch, Capellio Cappelletti. He and his sort of son in law to be Tebaldo are discussing an envoy of peace that has come from their enemies, the Montecchis. And we know that the envoy himself is actually Romeo, our hero in disguise, who is trying to broker peace between these two long standing factions. They are two families, but they both are involved in a larger political conflict involving the Guelphs and the Ghibellines from history. Tebaldo is engaged to marry Capelio's daughter, Giulietta. She is very against this marriage. In fact, it has made her ill. She's feverish, she feels herself to be close to death because she does not want to marry him. And we find out through her conversations with her Dr. Lorenzo. He is the only sort of more neutral character in here. He is trying to broker a peace as well. And he helps Giulietta in her illness. He knows that she's in love with Romeo and has been helping her to see Romeo, who has been sneaking into the city in disguise. Romeo, as we said, he tries to broker peace. It is rejected.
- [64:06]
Pat Wright
Enthusiastically rejected.
- [64:08]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah, right. Partly because. Or maybe solely because at this point, at one point in battle, he killed Coppelio's son, who is Juliet's brother. It's all a mess when we come into it. As we've mentioned earlier, we don't really get to see the more tender early parts of their love story. We only come in at the. The truly tragic part of their love story. But we do get to see them together. In the second scene, we meet Giulietta. She is full of sorrow and believes herself once again to be going to her death. She cannot marry this other man. Lorenzo has snuck in Romeo. They have their beautiful love scene where he tries to convince her to flee, but she says honor and duty are keeping her loyal to her family. And so it seems to be. They're at a crisis point at the end of this scene.
- [65:00]
Pat Wright
Yeah, all of Romeo's ideas have been rejected.
- [65:04]
Kathleen Vanderwille
They're good ideas.
- [65:05]
Pat Wright
Marriage has been rejected.
- [65:07]
Kathleen Vanderwille
They really are. They're good ideas.
- [65:09]
Pat Wright
He's just trying to work it out, but the. The Capulets will not budge. Any of them.
- [65:17]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes.
- [65:17]
Pat Wright
So I have a question about Romeo. To be a Romeo in modern parlance is to be someone who plays the field, who goes after lots of women, is quite the bon vivant that I. There's a little flavor of that in the Shakespeare, but I don't see any of that here.
- [65:36]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah, the Shakespeare really presents Romeo as open to love and in that sense very open to all love at the beginning. You know, he hasn't found his Juliet at the beginning and he is in love with this other woman named Rosaline. And I think that's Maybe where we get that impression of the character of Romeo as being a bit of a player, one might say. But it's really in a more literary and romantic sense. It's because he is very open. He's open to love. He loves women. He loves love. He wants to be in the middle of those experiences. And it's less of a sort of coldness of the player. Maybe it is more of a respect and joy in the company of women.
- [66:23]
Pat Wright
A little excitement like Cherubino has. He's just discovered the possibilities of being with the ladies.
- [66:31]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah, and he's young. He's young. He's excited about. It's all starting for him. But the true nature of Romeo, as soon as he meets his Juliet, though, is there's nobody else for him. He sees nobody else. And that's the case in this opera as well.
- [66:46]
Pat Wright
We're already there in this opera. Yeah, we are. Okay, so Romeo and Juliet have had a beautiful long scene together. Just beautiful. The two voices, the mezzo soprano and the soprano, singing about the difficulties of their situation. And she stays exactly where she was in the beginning. She just can't do it. She cannot flee. And he knows that it's going to end badly for all of them. But what are they going to do? Meanwhile, the rest of the folks around are getting ready for a wedding.
- [67:23]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes, there's only joy on their side. Perhaps the same chorus we saw in the beginning, that we're a bit bloodthirsty, but they are. Are currently looking forward to this. And they say this is a great opportunity to lay our arms down for a little while and put away evil and anger and instead celebrate joy. And we see often there's duality between vengeance and love or war and love. Marriage and a funeral is what Juliet keeps bouncing between. Which one am I going to? And in a sense, they are all mixed. So the vengeance and the love, they're all mixed together. And the funeral and the wedding are going to be mixed together. But for now, at least, the Capulets are trying to get excited for this wedding.
- [69:31]
Unknown Speaker
Sa. Oh.
- [70:48]
Pat Wright
After this chorus has shared its excitement, there's a little more drama that intrudes.
- [70:58]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes. We see Lawrence come on stage with Romeo. Romeo is disguised. We know he's been disguised in the past, but Lawrence is warning him that he's not really that well disguised and that this is too risky, that maybe Romeo is not being as strategic as he should be. And Romeo is, of course, only thinking about Juliet at this point. But Romeo is determined that he's going to stop this wedding. And he will use military force to do it if he has to.
- [71:27]
Pat Wright
Yeah. He's brought his army to the gates of Verona at this point, and Lorenzo is getting nervous. He's like, listen, buddy, I wanted to support the love that you have for Juliet, because I see it's true, but are you going to make me party to the slaughter of the people who have been treating me? Well, he's uncomfortable.
- [71:47]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah. Yeah. He says, are you gonna make me a traitor to this family? Which I think is interesting, because in a way, Lawrence is a traitor. He's been a traitor from the beginning. Whatever Romeo does, because he has played both sides of this, he's doing it for good. He has reasons that are good. I think, in a way, this is where him being a doctor makes a little bit less sense and him being a priest makes more sense in Shakespeare's version.
- [72:11]
Pat Wright
You're just a Shakespeare fan.
- [72:13]
Kathleen Vanderwille
I am, but. But he has a higher power that is guiding his actions as a priest, whereas as a doctor, he just kind of seems like, well, he's getting involved in something that's maybe bigger than his pay grade here. But we're grateful to him because he does help them. But there's a great commotion, interrupts their conversation. And the army is unmasking themselves. They've been hidden amongst these wedding guests.
- [72:41]
Pat Wright
Yeah. And the battle commences. It is just off stage, so we don't have to stage an entire battle in this. But everyone's concerned. Everyone's worried. And then the scene will turn to Juliet, who is obviously not in the middle of the fighting, but is suffering as a result of all of her problems. Plus the fact she doesn't know who's dead or alive in this battle.
- [73:05]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah. And she sees it as all her fault, too, in a way. Like, she's so driven by duty as a character, and now she sees this as Romeo is making this happen because of her, or more of her kinsmen will be dead because of her. Poor girl.
- [73:21]
Pat Wright
Yes. And as the scene continues, we have Romeo trying again to grab her and scoot. But she sees it as. It's just never gonna work, Romeo. It's just never going to work. I love you. I will be lost without you. But I don't see how I can run away with you. He continues to try to convince her. And then Capulet and the Capulets come on stage. Tybalt, too. And they recognize that this man is, in fact, this ambassador. He's not really an ambassador.
- [73:57]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah. And this is a bit of a departure from The Vikai, at least maybe a small departure that I thought was interesting. They think here that she is betraying the family with the ambassador. Like, they still don't get that it's Romeo, which obviously is a much bigger betrayal, but they think that she's been having an affair with this ambassador. And so they immediately they label her as a traitor and she is really cast out of their affections here, which is a little bit different. Before, the reason that she was in trouble with her dad, to put a common parlance, is she wouldn't marry Tebaldo. But here it's. They really believe that she has been with this other man.
- [74:40]
Pat Wright
Yeah, essentially she has. But okay, yeah, they're right. Yeah. And Romeo announces himself and says, no, Tybalt, I'm your rival. We're not going to continue with any of this facade anymore. It's me against you, buddy. And there is this wonderful piece. We've got all these major character voices chiming in. We have Juliet and Romeo asking for heaven's help. We have Capulet and Tybalt talking about their concerns about the battle and Lawrence, who is essentially just fretting about how badly things have gone. And it's wonderful to hear all these five voices together.
- [75:30]
Unknown Speaker
Ra sa.
- [78:04]
Kathleen Vanderwille
So we are in the midst of this. Everybody is fighting right off stage. We have our main quintet vocally fighting in a way, but they still don't know who Romeo really is. And then we hear the Montecchis off stage say, we're coming, Romeo. We're going to help you. And that is when Tebaldo and Capelio realize that this is Romeo. And that changes everything. This is an even worse situation. And Coppelio says, haven't I killed you already? And he says, no, not yet, but if you want blood, then we will provide that. And at this point, this music shifts once again. We have everybody on stage singing, but it's even more angry and martial and about slaughter and blood juxtapose against Romeo and Juliet, saying, oh, Juliet, I've lost you. Farewell. So their farewell and this song of war juxtaposed against each other. And that is how it ends this act.
- [79:10]
Pat Wright
Yes, we have a two act opera. This is the end of act one.
- [79:54]
Unknown Speaker
Ra.
- [80:57]
Pat Wright
This is opera for everyone. And we are listening to and talking about Vincenzo Bellini's take on Romeo and Juliet. I Capulete e I Montecchi. And the battle is raging between the Capulets and the Montagues. And as we begin the second act of this two act opera, we're with Juliet and her Good friend, the doctor, Lorenzo Lawrence. And Lorenzo brings her news, letting her know that Romeo is safe. And in our five years earlier version of this libretto, she also learns that Tybalt has been killed. Her fiance, her betrothed. Not so. In this opera, Tybalt is not killed. Romeo is safe. And she is told. But you, madam, will be taken to the castle of Tybalt. You will be taken to his home a pawn once again with the men in her world.
- [81:54]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah, she's in. In a lot of ways, it feels like everything she learns is just prolonging the sorrow that she knows is coming. When she finds out that everybody is still alive, Tybalt and Romeo, she's happy, but she's prolongs what she knows is inevitable. And she says, I don't fear death, but this waiting is so horrible for her.
- [82:59]
Unknown Speaker
Sa.
- [84:17]
Pat Wright
Very quickly after Lorenzo has said, you will be taken to Tybalt's castle. He knows that she doesn't want that, can't stand the thought of that. And she doesn't even ask him for help. He says, I think I can help you. Will you trust me? Do you have courage? Which I think is very interesting. So she's. I don't want to say she's a pawn of Lorenzo, but in no time here is she initiating the actions that she is going to take.
- [84:45]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah. And I think. I think you could say she's a pawn of Lorenzo in a way too. Lorenzo remains such an interesting character because it's never quite clear why he's getting himself involved. Like I said, he doesn't have that sort of overarching. He's doing it because he's a man of God, he's a man of medicine. So he wants people to be healthy, he wants her to be healthy. But he really involves himself so directly in the actions throughout this opera. And he doesn't let it go. And it's interesting that he doesn't let it go because at this point, you'd think that a fairly disinterested party would say, you know what? You're gonna have to marry Tybalt. I'm sorry. We tried, but he doesn't. He instead goes to this other place where he says, here's my last ditch effort. It's crazy because you have to take a poison that's gonna make you seem like you're dead, but it's worth it.
- [85:41]
Pat Wright
Yeah. And in the gounod, there's this long piece where she struggles with the implications of taking this. Will it work? And she will say she doesn't Fear death. Even though everything is upsetting. I can do this. But she's just complying once again, like she was complying, well, with everyone but Romeo. She didn't comply with him. She was complying with her father. She's complying with. With Lawrence. She is a little bit afraid of waking up in the same tomb where her brother is held, but she decides to take it.
- [86:17]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes. And so she takes it right as her father is coming into the room. And Capelio, sort of, he's very harsh with her and the chorus, actually, the people who come into the room with him, his courtiers ask him, please be nicer to her. Poor girl. You're killing her with your words here, your unkindness. And Juliet makes this impassioned plea. She says, embrace me one more time for one more night. Don't be angry with me. Give peace to me. I am going to die. My heart is dying. I believe that I am going to go to my death here. But he does not unbend. He continues to reject her for what she has done.
- [87:03]
Pat Wright
Yeah. He remains stern. And it is fascinating to see how the people who are like, war, war, war. This chorus of the Capulets become tender towards Juliet and a little upset with their leader for his harshness. And they can actually see her declining in front of them. Of course, she's taken this potion from Lorenzo, but she is diminishing right before their very eyes. She doesn't collapse here at this moment, and she's. But she's led away by Lorenzo in her illness. And we have a little moment of reflection by Capulet. He's not a completely introspective man. I would say he's a little loud and blustery. Good role for a bass, but he squashes it.
- [87:52]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah. He really only has sort of one line of introspection in the whole opera where he says, oh, my heart is confused. I'm in turmoil here. But then that's it. He is a hard man. He really is. And he immediately follows that up by getting straight down to business. And he says, you go find Tybalt. And then he puts somebody to watch Lawrence, Lorenzo, because he starts to suspect that something is going on with Lorenzo, which, as far as I know, that he doesn't ever suspect him in Bacchae is.
- [88:22]
Pat Wright
And we're given the missing explanation here, the. From the prior libretto, because he not only says, go watch Lorenzo. Don't let him go out. Do not let him speak to anyone. So in that very moment, those of us who are looking for it go oh, that's why the message never gets through to Romeo. That's why Romeo never learns that her death is simulated and not. Not real. But I'd like to hear just a little bit of this very stern father Capulet, Juliet's father. You're listening to Opera for Everyone, and I'm here with Kathleen Vandewille. Kathleen, you know so much about Shakespeare literature in general. You are my go to person for literary questions. And I have a question about this opera. Do you see much character development in any of these characters? We've got Juliet, Romeo, Tybalt, Coppelio, her father, and we have Lorenzo. No, I feel like it's a real question.
- [90:15]
Kathleen Vanderwille
No. The answer is no. And I've been thinking about this as we've been talking. So this is a good opportunity. In a drama, you have to have character development. That is what makes a drama. And that's a fairly modern interpretation, but it draws upon the principles from plays like Shakespeare's plays and stories as old as this. So even going back to the Greeks, we have character development. Achilles changes over the course of the Iliad, otherwise we wouldn't be interested in him. So, yes, I think my radical proposal is this is actually a tragic sitcom and not a drama.
- [90:53]
Pat Wright
Oh, you must explain that.
- [90:56]
Kathleen Vanderwille
So in a sitcom. The thing about sitcoms, this is straight from Robert McKee, who is someone that I love and I know you love as well. He has a famous book called Story that's all about principles of how you construct a story for the page, the stage, screen, whatever. And he has a lot of wonderful books about dialogue, about character, about conflict. Highly recommend all of them. And so I want to give him credit because I'm stealing this from him, but he has this theory where the thing that makes a sitcom is that the characters don't change, they don't grow. They have an obsession that they have to keep playing out over and over again. And you can think of the most famous sitcoms that we know, Curb youb Enthusiasm, for instance. Those characters don't grow and change. They are the same people they were when we met them. And that's not 100% rigid. You can see some change in some characters over time. But I would posit that often when you see a sitcom where you have characters grow and change into better people than they were at the beginning, it's because that is. It's becoming more of a drama and less of a sitcom. A true sitcom keeps that structure, and in a way, this is what this is. These people are driven by certain Obsessions, certain flaws. Coppelio is obsessed with the death of his son, and he's obsessed with the supremacy he must have over his family and his land. That is who he is the day we meet him. And that's who he is when we put a period to the end of.
- [92:28]
Pat Wright
This story, which is in contrast to what he is in the immediately preceding version of this very same libretto. Because he does change, or it certainly has a change of expression at the end of the vicai. This is a little bit of. There are no spoilers in opera. He does not change here in this one, at the end. But there are the other characters. There's. Romeo and Juliet are two characters who have such a dominant role on this stage in terms of the amount of time they are present and singing. What about them? Do they change?
- [93:00]
Kathleen Vanderwille
No, they really don't. We see Romeo when we first meet him. He is crafty, he is a statesman, he's a warrior. He's driven by two things, his love for Juliet and his desire to gain military victory over his enemies. And he continues to be that person the entire time. And at the end of this, this is as much about when he is unable to have Juliet, he is going to still reach for military victory. We're about to talk about a scene in which he and Tybalt confront each other. That desire for those two things remains constant, even if he's thwarted in them at the end. He doesn't get to have either of those things really in the end, but he doesn't change in what he wants or what drives him. And Juliet doesn't really have anything that drives her except inevitability, the inevitability of tragedy, her lack of choices and her honor that she feels towards her family. But you're right, in contrast, the Vicai, but also, once again, in strict contrast, the Shakespeare. Take Capulet in the Shakespeare, by the end of that, he is a broken man. He has lost his daughter. He is weeping on stage over the loss of his family, in strict contrast to who he is here. The idea that Shakespeare takes is that the death of these two people in the way that they die is a thing that must occasion character growth in those that live. If it doesn't, then what's the point? And so you're right, it is this one. It's a beautiful opera, such beautiful music. But I do struggle a little with the characterization, because if there is no change in the heart of Capulet at the end, then what did they die for? They just their death means it's more nihilistic, honestly. Their death means almost nothing except to the people who mourn them.
- [94:58]
Pat Wright
Two more casualties in this whole conflict. Yeah, yeah, I was just. I was thinking about that, as I was. Of course, I know what's about to come. But let's get back to our story. We have Romeo and Tybalt confronting one another. Romeo has let Tybalt know he is the rival. And there's Tybalt.
- [95:19]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes. They have a final confrontation. They have a duel. It's been leading to this for them. They have been the main military leaders of their respective factions. And it was always leading, I think, to them having a confrontation.
- [95:34]
Pat Wright
And we have two fantastic numbers between these two where it's smack talk, you could call it, between them. You'll wish that mountains rose up between the two of us to protect you from me. Because I'm so bad, I'm gonna get you.
- [95:49]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes. And the only thing that interrupts their smack talk, their fighting, is that we hear offstage there are voices that are starting to mourn Juliet. And that snaps them out of it briefly. But they go right back to this fighting because even in their grief over the death of this woman they both loved, they have this thing in common. This thing that. That very few people ever have in common. They love the same person and they lose the same person. But in that moment of shared grief, they are still enemies. It doesn't bring them together, unfortunately.
- [96:25]
Pat Wright
No, it doesn't. And at the end here, you almost wonder, because they're like, I am more in grief than you. No, I am more in grief than you. And Romeo will say, slay a desperate man. I present my breast to your sword. He is asking for Tibble to kill him. And Tibble's nope, I am not going to kill you right now. I'm not going to do what you want me to do.
- [96:52]
Kathleen Vanderwille
I love that, actually. That's like a moment of unintentional comedy in there for me. They hate each other so much that he's like, I want you to kill me. And he's like, no, I won't do what you want me to do. Even if it's the thing he wants to do. There's such.
- [97:07]
Pat Wright
Supporting your sitcom thesis.
- [97:09]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah, exactly. There is a little bit of that where they're just like, oh, God.
- [97:13]
Pat Wright
Yeah. This is not a comedy, folks. This is not a comedy. It is beautiful.
- [97:17]
Kathleen Vanderwille
It is beautiful.
- [97:17]
Pat Wright
I recommend if you have any opportunity to see it performed live or stream it, I, Capulete e Montechi, definitely do see it. The music is beautiful. Well, let's hear a little bit from Tybalt and Romeo.
- [98:11]
Kathleen Vanderwille
J.
- [98:37]
Unknown Speaker
Sa Foreign Buddhist Sa Sa. Juliet.
- [102:02]
Pat Wright
Okay, we're coming up to the end here of this. I still must call it a drama. Romeo and Juliet. It is. It is some serious business. Here we are in the area where the Capulets are entombed. And Romeo, along with all of his men, for some reason, he's visiting Juliet's body. He has come to see his beloved.
- [102:53]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes, they have taken some time off of the grand battle and are mourning Juliet. They all are. And even the Montague chorus that never knew her, they're mourning on his behalf. Because I think in a way they're mourning what could have been. This could have been a peaceful resolution and she would have been their new queen. But this is lost to them. And Romeo has descended to this tomb and he. He sees her body and we have this moment that is very Shakespearean. He says, I found you again. You are not dead. You're only sleeping and you're waiting for me to wake you up because she is.
- [103:39]
Pat Wright
That does kind of get you. Right? And the Montagues. The Montagues here, his men who are there with him, are beginning to get worried about him. Your sorrow is too great. They're a little worried that he is too deep in his mourning, in his sadness.
- [103:59]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Right. I mean, they still need a military leader. And I think they very rightly see that the fight, in a way, has gone out of him. So he is left alone. They are going to give him some time alone with Juliet. But they say at the end, they say, you're breaking our hearts. We are in sorrow with you.
- [104:18]
Pat Wright
Yes, yes. And now we're at the part in this Romeo and Juliet story that we always know is coming, but we always wish we could prevent. Romeo is alone with Juliet's body and he, of course, in this opera, sings to her body, saying, she's deaf to the sound of my voice and I am alone, abandoned.
- [106:45]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah, it's always heart wrenching, no matter what version. I think we can all agree whatever operatic or play or movie version version of this you prefer, this part always gets you and you always wish that it could be different because that's the nature of the brilliance Shakespeare puts into this scene. It is so much more tragic because it is a. Like it's missed by seconds, right? It's this missed opportunity to prevent tragedy. And it reinforces the feeling that fate has its cold hands around our neck. We can't ever have an instance where things end differently because that's just not that's not how fate wants itself to be.
- [107:25]
Pat Wright
Yeah.
- [107:26]
Kathleen Vanderwille
And so Romeo is here. He is looking at her. He is feeling his intense grief, and he takes out this vial of poison, which we've had no setup for this. And I would say, no indication in previous iterations of his character throughout this opera that he was a guy who carried a vial of poison with him at all times. He says, it's. It's never far. Yeah, it's never far for me. So he's been prepared for this possibility.
- [107:57]
Pat Wright
And he drinks poison or some other dire possibility.
- [108:01]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah, he's been prepared for tragedy to be how this ends, I guess I would say. And so he drinks the poison over her body, and he says, receive my last breath, this tomb of my enemies. But then, of course, Juliet wakes up, because that's how it always happens, and that's why it's always so painful.
- [108:23]
Pat Wright
Yeah, A little sound from her as he's just had the poison.
- [108:27]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah.
- [108:28]
Pat Wright
He thinks he's imagining it. And as she is waking up and shaking off all this slumber, he is declining.
- [108:37]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes. And he thinks at first that she's an angel, that she's calling him to heaven. But once he realizes that she is alive, that her death was feigned, she tries to explain, and she says, no. Didn't she see Lawrence? And we get this moment, of course, where we realize that Lawrence has never reached him. We know that's because the father put the watch on Lawrence. She says, what does it matter? Forget about all of that. I'm with you. And if I embrace you, if we're in each other's arms, it's all gonna be fine. Let's get out of here. She's finally ready to run away with him.
- [109:12]
Pat Wright
She's finally, finally ready. A little late, sweetheart.
- [109:17]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah. Because she doesn't realize it. She sees something's wrong with him, but she doesn't know he's taking the poison. So then he. He reveals to her and says, I wanted to die beside you and Juliet. And maybe this is the character development that we do get from her. She sees hope. She says, someone is going to come to your rescue. We're going to run away. But he is the one that says, instead, there is no hope. It's too late.
- [109:43]
Pat Wright
Yeah.
- [109:44]
Kathleen Vanderwille
And she. We talked about this in our previous podcast about Romeo and Juliet. Whether or not she dies by stabbing herself or if she dies in some other way is always interesting, I think, at this end, because it says a lot about what sort of agency her character has. And again, she wishes for a blade Here. And then she wishes for the poison, but she can't have either. He's drank all the poison, and he won't give her a blade. And he wants her to live, but she says no. She says, you have to kill me. He says, oh, I'm not gonna do that.
- [110:17]
Pat Wright
No, no.
- [110:19]
Kathleen Vanderwille
And then he tries really hard. He says, seeing you in pain just makes it worse for me. Please go. Please live. And they sing these farewells to each other. And then he says, I'm dying. She says, wait for me. He says, farewell. And then she just. He just says, he's dead. And then she just falls. So she is essentially killed by her grief, or perhaps the illness that she's had this whole time is just. It overtakes her at last.
- [110:46]
Pat Wright
Or perhaps a blade. Or in one version that I saw, she did find just a little bit of poison left in that vial and used. So the staging is.
- [110:56]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah, it's open to interpretation.
- [110:59]
Pat Wright
The end result is that they are both dead, center stage. But here we have all of the chorus run onto stage. Lawrence runs onto the stage. Capulet runs onto the stage. Lawrence lets us all know for clarification that they are both dead. He's a doctor, after all. They are both dead. And Capulet is. Wait, I didn't. Why? What killed them? Who killed them?
- [111:32]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yeah. It says, by you, you pitiless man. This is sung by the Montagues and Lawrence. But interestingly, right before that, all three sing together. The Capulet chorus, the Montague Chorus, and Lorenzo sing. Behold them. Look at what you've done. And that's the only time you ever see characters in unison from both sides of this conflict, they are in unison that it is his fault that they died.
- [112:02]
Pat Wright
Yeah.
- [112:02]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Yes. And that's how we leave it.
- [112:05]
Pat Wright
Yeah. A loud shout of, you killed them is the end. Kathleen. I need to take a breath after these two young people have died in front of my eyes here. Kathleen, thank you.
- [112:17]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Over and over again.
- [112:18]
Pat Wright
Oh, we're going to have one more shot at Romeo and Juliet. At least that's the plan right now. Thank you so much for joining me to talk opera and story and all the other. And pasta alla norma. Thank you. I appreciate it.
- [112:34]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Always happy to talk about these beautiful works.
- [112:38]
Unknown Speaker
Thank you, Patrick. You, Kurodam sa. Sa.
- [117:49]
Pat Wright
Thanks for listening to another episode of Opera for Everyone. I've been your host today, Pat Wright.
- [117:54]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Joined by Kathleen Vandewille.
- [117:56]
Pat Wright
If you've enjoyed our show and would like to hear more, please subscribe to the Opera for Everyone podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts. Opera can be challenging, but everyone loves a good story, and a story set to music is even better.
- [118:11]
Kathleen Vanderwille
Our mission is to make opera understandable, accessible and enjoyable because we believe opera is for everyone.
- [118:24]
Unknown Speaker
SA.