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- [00:25]
Pat Wright
Welcome to another edition of Opera for Everyone. I am your host, Pat. Pat Wright. And I am joined once again by Gerald Malone. Welcome, Gerald.
- [00:34]
Gerald Malone
Well, I'm delighted to be back with you, Pat, and especially for this opera. It's the first opera I really took seriously. That was in 1976. I hesitate to say that in Glasgow. It was a newly commissioned opera house. It was a theater royal and I was sucked in by this film.
- [00:54]
Pat Wright
Wagner, Wagner. Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg. Not the first title that springs to mind for me anyway, when I think of Wagner, but what an amazing show it is.
- [01:06]
Gerald Malone
Well, it is. And it's not some of his ringhead favorites. It's a comedy. Yes, it's long, but it's light hearted and it's a great watch and a great romp.
- [01:19]
Pat Wright
Yes. If you have a chance to see Die Meistersinger, go and see it. It is quite an undertaking for an opera company to do because it is very long, light hearted, I might say in moments it's lighthearted. But it takes itself quite seriously when it comes to the subject of art and music.
- [01:39]
Gerald Malone
It does. And Wagner is always serious about art and he makes the point that the citizens of Nuremberg are far more important than the aristos. You will hear that play out during the course of the opera. And their art is very, very vital.
- [01:59]
Narrator
Right.
- [02:00]
Pat Wright
A little class consciousness throughout all of this because our male lead is in fact a knight, a junker, someone of the elevated status, whereas most of our characters here are. Are tradespeople.
- [02:14]
Gerald Malone
Well, all the rest of them are tradespeople. You've got butchers, bakers, candlestick makers, everything. And they are Meistersingers and they have the custody of German art in their care.
- [02:28]
Pat Wright
Yes. And Nuremberg being a city that is renowned for its artistic achievements through the centuries. Really?
- [02:36]
Gerald Malone
Yes, it is. And it was also an embodiment of the democratic spirit.
- [02:43]
Pat Wright
Well, there's a lot to discuss when it comes to Germany during this period. Wagner and where his career was at the point that this premiered because it was in the process of becoming an opera for over 20 years with Wagner. But before we move on to all of that, I want to just say I think it's wonderful that this was an important opera for you because now, among other things, you are an opera critic.
- [03:11]
Gerald Malone
Well, I went down the rabbit hole. I loved opera and increasingly I have engaged in international opera and I enjoy writing about it. In terms that attracted me to your podcast, of course.
- [03:26]
Pat Wright
I'm so glad. Well, tell people where they can find your writings.
- [03:31]
Gerald Malone
Well, it's in Reaction Life, which is a UK online publication and I am the opera critic. I tried to avoid the title, I have to say, but I was stuck with it and I have to accept it gracefully.
- [03:48]
Pat Wright
Well, yes, yes, I love discussing opera with you. So many insights and so much experience, having seen so many things. I have a thought because this overture, this prelude to this opera is magnificent. We're listening to a little bit of it underneath here, but let's. Let's play out the rest of this overture and hear it and get ready for this magnificent opera. Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg. You're listening to opera for everyone. And that was the prelude to Wagner's Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg, the Mastersingers of Nuremberg. This is an opera that was produced well into Wagner's successful career. Although he first had the idea for this opera in 1845 and began sketching out the poem, by the way, all of Wagner's operas, he is fully in charge. He writes the words, the music, he plans it all. So he first starts to plan this as a. As a little end to one of his earlier operas, to Tannhauser, just a little something to clear the palette afterwards, because as you mentioned, it's comedic, but it doesn't see the clear light of day as a premiere, a full long opera until 18. A lot of time went by there. Two of his ring cycle operates had already been finished. And then Die Meistersinger shows up. Well, Tristan and Isolde too. It's an interesting creation process.
- [10:31]
Gerald Malone
And you know, he made comedic reference to Tristan and Isolde in Meistersinger.
- [10:38]
Pat Wright
We will definitely get to that.
- [10:41]
Gerald Malone
He loved jokes in this opera. And this took place between the era where Germany became unified. And that's important because it previously had been very diverse, ruled by princelings. That's one of the reasons why the princeling here gets the comeuppance somewhat in the opera the Night. And it wasn't until 1871 that Germany was unified. And in fact, it wasn't until 1862 that he could go back to Dresden. He was banned in the uprising in 1849 from Dresden. And he was a bit of a revolutionary, was our pal Wagner. And you know, you've got to see the opera written in that light.
- [11:30]
Pat Wright
Yes, nationalism is in the air. Italy went through. Well, it wasn't the same process, but as a set of states, a nation, but not a country, not a nation state. And the Italian states and the German states, they become unified in this mid late 19th century. And it shows through in the various operas that We've talked about on opera for everyone.
- [11:57]
Gerald Malone
And Verdi was the Italian nationalists composer du jour. You get Tosca, which is clearly written in the nationalist context and the risorgimento lives. And everybody said viva verde. Yes, that was a slogan of revolution.
- [12:17]
Pat Wright
Yes. So these arts are not separate from their time period. They are very much of the time period, though Wagner, self conscious of that, was very self conscious of his own role as an artist and the importance of art. And he hits that head on in this opera, Die Meistersinger.
- [12:38]
Gerald Malone
Well, he does. He's in favor of the artisan's art. He is against the aristocrats art. He didn't like court composers. He liked being a man of the people. And we certainly have men of the people and women of the people in this opera.
- [12:56]
Pat Wright
Yes. Although it's interesting to note, this is written and produced in the mid late 19th century, but it's set very clearly and it needs to be set in the 16th century in the German city of Nurnberg. And so a lot of the world that we see here has the medieval elements, the guilds in particular. This concept of master singer. Master just doesn't mean a simple person who's good at what they do. It's a designation, it's an earned title.
- [13:32]
Gerald Malone
It is an earned title, but it is earned in the teeth of court composers. They were very proud of their status and rightly so.
- [13:45]
Pat Wright
Yeah. And it's interesting you mentioned. These are the people, these are the craftsmen, the artisans. Our, our main village person here, or town person, I should say, is Hans Sachs. And he is a cobbler. He is an excellent cobbler, but he is the. The pinnacle of these master singers. Deeply respected. But there's reference to journeymen and apprentices in this whole guild system throughout this opera. And elevation to master is a very, very big deal.
- [14:17]
Gerald Malone
I wonder if you went to Nuremberg in the Middle Ages, you would have found that ahema dutes, as they say in Scotland. But it's a romantic notion and it is the foundation of this opera.
- [14:32]
Pat Wright
Well, yeah, Wagner was happy to embrace romantic notions, no question. Speaking of romantic notions, I do love the way this story begins with flirtation. A little subversive flirtation, perhaps. Mildly so.
- [14:49]
Gerald Malone
Well, we see Walter, who's the knight, come into church and he's trying to distract Eva with the connivance of her servant Magdalena. And he talks to her and gets her out of her pew at church and then, oh my goodness me, that Magdalena has forgotten something and goes into cleck. And Magdalena has forgotten something else and goes in to collect, giving them the opportunity to have a canoodle.
- [15:20]
Pat Wright
It's a very mild canoodle, more of a hey, what's your status? Kind of a question. He wants to know, are you betrothed?
- [15:30]
Gerald Malone
Well, he asks her point blank, is she betrothed? And she doesn't really know because she is semi betrothed because her father has promised her in marriage to the winner of the singing prize. And that is the key to the plot.
- [15:49]
Pat Wright
Yes. So let's listen a little bit to this interaction between the two women. Eva, our lead soprano, and her companion, maid nurse. She's variously called these things, but definitely her sidekick, buddy in this show. Let's listen to them as we hear them talk about Valter, who has been flirting with Eva. And Eva's quite happy about the flirtation that was Eva and Magdalena doing. Often what young women will do when they meet a new handsome man. They talk about him and Eva, the one who is quite smitten with this vaulter, this young man who's been flirting with her in church. She says, oh, doesn't he look like David? And that leads to a little confusion as to, well, what David are we talking about?
- [17:36]
Gerald Malone
Well, she fancies David and Goliath, that's.
- [17:39]
Pat Wright
Who she's thinking of. But it gets to be part of the comedy. But of course, the man that Magdalena likes, his name is David and he's an important character in this show as well. He's an apprentice to this Hans Sachs that we. This cobbler that we've mentioned. He's an apprentice to become a cobbler and also as a singer. But it's really very sweet how Eva seems to be idolizing this young man who's new to town. In fact, he stayed at her house. The father has taken him in briefly as he makes his transition to being a town dweller here in Nurnberg.
- [18:16]
Gerald Malone
You never quite hear why he has turned up here. There's a lingering suspicion that he's fancied her from afar and that his sole purpose of visit is to try his luck with Eva Pogner.
- [18:33]
Pat Wright
Yes, that plus he does express his admiration for the art and culture of the city where he's moved Pogner. In fact, Eva's father has helped him sell his estates. He's the only remaining person in his family. Well, I mean, that may change after the opera is over, but right now that's the case and he sold his estates and he's moving to the town. I think it might be nice to hear a little bit of this interaction when we finally get these two young people, Eva, our soprano, and Valter, our lead tenor. When we finally get them together, she's being a little coy.
- [19:13]
Gerald Malone
Well, she's. She's being ironic, you know, it is true that Eva Pogner is betrothed, said Magdalene, which is a sort of complicated way of saying it. It is, you know, equivocation. That's the sort of thing that I would have said as a politician if I wanted to dodge the subject. And Eva chips in. But no one has yet seen the bridegroom, so there's room for hope.
- [19:39]
Pat Wright
Well, that's because the bridegroom has not yet been selected. It's not that he's hiding. He has not been chosen because she's going to be the prize in a singing contest.
- [19:52]
Gerald Malone
Well, I have to say, America's Got Talent singing contest, in which the first prize is Simon Cowell's daughter, would be the equivalent of this. It's a strange thing that Herr Cogner, as the rich merchant daughter, the condition is that she finds the groom acceptable. He's not saying that she should marry him regardless, but he does have to be a meistersinger.
- [20:19]
Pat Wright
Well, that's her father. He's a rich merchant, by the way, because he's the goldsmith in town. But she must marry a master and cannot marry someone who's not a master. Someone who hasn't won one of these contests. But the timing is all very dramatic, fit for a story such as this. Doesn't feel very real. But never mind. It's a romantic comedy.
- [20:45]
Gerald Malone
Yes.
- [20:46]
Pat Wright
Well, once Eva knows, she has her heart set on Valter. And Magdalena, the good, supportive friend that she is, understands what the circumstances are, because Magdalena understands about this contest that Ava's father has put her up as a prize for she ropes in this David we mentioned, to help out.
- [21:07]
Gerald Malone
He's a great part to play in the first act, because he instructs Volta in what he needs to do to win the prize and to become a meistersinger. And it's exceptionally complex and it's exceptionally funny, and he goes through all the rules.
- [21:29]
David
Sa.
- [24:13]
Pat Wright
That was Hans Sachs's apprentice, David, instructing young Walter, who is not trained as a singer, in the different tones and melodies that you must be able to use if you wish to become a master. It goes on and on. There are many rules.
- [24:33]
Gerald Malone
Do you find them baffling? It's unbelievable how complex it is. Wagner had rhyme, poetry, meter, all sorts of things. It was, in a sense, a joke. The rules and regulations that governed the song contest were almost Impossible to fulfill. Nobody could understand them.
- [24:55]
Pat Wright
Yes. And David's not doing all this explanation out of the goodness of his heart, trying to support young love. He's doing it to please Magdalena, who. Magdalena is very clear that that's why she's asked David to do this for. For her sake. But, yes, I think Wagner intentionally makes it seem absurd because after all we mentioned, this is set in the 16th century, but he's working in the 19th century. And Wagner's work was subject to great criticism about it, not following all the old rules.
- [25:31]
Gerald Malone
That was the point of his work. And he was having a sly dig at the old rules. David says, haven't you ever been at a song contest, Walter? And Walter says, never won. Where the judges are artisans in a sort of a semi put down and heel covers comeuppance further down the line. But that just shows you the attitude. Much of the plot hinges on his status as an aristo knight looking down on artisans.
- [26:02]
Pat Wright
Yes, but we're going to have a happy conclusion. We told you, it's a romantic comedy, so we're not too worried. But, yeah, that is the source of a lot of the comedy.
- [26:13]
Gerald Malone
And David uses the terms of cobbling to describe singing, which is very interesting. The brightly gleaming thread melody, for example. And he's a cobbler, so he uses cobbling.
- [26:25]
Pat Wright
Mm.
- [26:26]
Gerald Malone
It's cobbled together.
- [26:30]
Pat Wright
And David also explains the importance of poetry. It's not just the tunes and the melodies, it's also the words. Again, very Wagnerian. This total melding of the words and the music and all the elements of the music with the words, that was something Wagner believed in deeply. The reason he's his own librettist for all of his operas.
- [26:56]
Gerald Malone
Well, it was the perfect artwork. Of course, he saw that not just in the Ring cycle, but in pretty well everything that he did.
- [27:05]
Pat Wright
Yes. David will say in answer to the question, who is a master? It's the poet who, of his own endeavor to words and rhymes of his own invention, fashions a new melody from the tones. That's the man who is the master singer.
- [27:22]
Gerald Malone
And that is going to be Walter's challenge.
- [27:26]
Pat Wright
Yes, that is going to be Walter's challenge. And it won't be without a few hiccups along the way. Well, part of the reason David's on the stage right now is that he and a bunch of other apprentices are setting up this part of the church for a meeting of these master singers. Among them, we will meet. Well, we will meet them all, but one of the people who comes in is Pogner that's Eva's father, this goldsmith, the one who's put her up as the prize only if she agrees, which is nice to hear. But he does explain, Pogner does explain the reason he is putting up his most cherished possession as he explains his daughter and all of his inheritance as well that goes with her. The reason he is putting her up as this prize for the singers.
- [30:44]
David
Here and Earth fight. Bookmap and books. Be still. Stay Eva. Meinzish King.
- [31:01]
Pat Wright
You'Re listening to opera for everyone and we've just heard Eva's father, who is himself a master singer, explain why he has made his daughter Eva a prize for the winner of the next day's song competition. It is because he believes in art and he sees all over when he travels that people do not take seriously artisans in their ability to create art. They are criticized as merely being interested in money. And he wants to support the arts and show the importance of art to anyone who cares to look.
- [31:47]
Gerald Malone
It's an amazing way to sacrifice your family to your art.
- [31:53]
Pat Wright
Yes. Although he's trying not to make it too onerous a sacrifice on his daughter because she has been given veto power.
- [32:01]
Gerald Malone
Oh, I'm on her side. I think it's one of the shameful things about the opera, in a sense, that she gets to either not get married or to have to marry a meister singer. It's a strange thing from which she's rescued by our man.
- [32:20]
Pat Wright
Yes, with the help of Sachs, we will get to that working itself out. But it's not the only uncomfortable thing in this opera, quite honestly. There are a few uncomfortable things in this opera.
- [32:32]
Gerald Malone
Yes, there are. And one looks back at the era and thinks, good heavens, we're quite enlightened.
- [32:41]
Pat Wright
Yeah, well, we've got our own problems, but we can always see from the vantage point of history other people's problems a little more clearly, it seems to me. Anyway, you have to have someone here who's not all on the side of happiness and art and love. Enter Master Beckmesser. He is the town clerk, also a master singer.
- [33:05]
Gerald Malone
He is the villain of the piece and he's a pantomime villain as well, because he is a subject of serious mockery and he thinks that he can marry Eva and he will win the prize come what may.
- [33:23]
Pat Wright
Yeah, you kind of get a sense. It's not said explicitly, but you do get the sense here that Beckmesser might be more interested in the inheritance than feeling any affection towards Eva. She's just a means to the inheritance from the Rich father.
- [33:39]
Gerald Malone
He's a very vain man. And I think that's right. He's on the make, et cetera. And he's somebody who is absolute villain.
- [33:52]
Pat Wright
Yes. But as villains do, he tries to pretend to have high ideals. And one of his roles here is as the marker. What does the marker do?
- [34:04]
Gerald Malone
Well, the marker makes a list of all the mistakes. They set the rules up on the wall outside the marker's tent, and he sits inside the tent going, clip, clip, clip, clip, clip. And every mistake that is made, as we will see later on in the opera, is marked on a chalkboard. And if you get too many, if you get seven, you're out.
- [34:33]
Pat Wright
Yeah. And Beckmesser's quite excited about that situation because he feels he retains some control, because this day before the song contest is when Walter, this new man on the scene, will be given a trial.
- [34:51]
Gerald Malone
He senses Walter as a sort of a substitute who's come in from afar and a real threat. And Walter sings a sacred song, something sacred to me Love's banner I shall wave and sing in high hopes. Well, that's something that's against the ethics of the master singers and is not very conformed to the rules. But he sees it as a threat, Beckmesser.
- [35:20]
Narrator
He really does.
- [35:21]
Pat Wright
In fact, he even says to Eva's father, why have you given her this out? Why have you given her this ability to reject the winner of the contest? Shouldn't you just choose her husband for her? And Pogner sticks to his agreement. No, she can back out. And when Sox gets into the conversation, he's shown up. And by the way, when. When Sox shows up, it's very clear that he is deeply respected and admired by all the other masters. You get a sense that he is above them in terms of their esteem, at any rate. But Xox will say, oh, no, the girl's heart really does matter, even if she is untrained in the arts that we practice. Her opinion, just like the opinion of the untrained populace, the people who will come up as a character, the people throughout this opera. Her opinion is valid. Their opinion is valid. And that's a little shocking for the masters as a whole to hear.
- [36:25]
Gerald Malone
Sachs turns the tables on the Masters and the interpretation of the rules throughout. And it's an ongoing process. And when he first hears Walter, he says, not so fast. If he left our path, he at least strode firmly but strongly.
- [36:44]
Pat Wright
Oh, yes.
- [36:45]
Gerald Malone
So he is saying that you cannot be constrained in the type of music that you have. You must admire something that is new and generous. And admire his tenacity. His heart's in the right place. A true poet knight. That matters more than simple rules.
- [37:07]
Pat Wright
Yes, yes. Well, let's hear a little bit of this trial that Walter sings this song that he sings for the trial after he's gotten all these rules. He's heard them from David, he hears them officially in the room of the trial. He's told he must sit in the singer's chair, something that's a little challenging as well. And all during this song, if you see a production, you're going to hear the scraping of the chalk on the slate where Beck Messer is. He's hidden from view, but you can hear him that he's making marks against Walter and he's only allowed seven marks. And in a moment you hear seven. However, I do want to let people know in this recording that we're going to listen to, you'll get to hear the singing a little more clearly because I could not hear the chalk marks in this particular recording. So we lose a little bit of that drama. But the clip we're going to hear, you hear Walter in his beautiful tenor voice singing, and the annoyed Beckmesser at the end asking, are you finished yet? Because he's had it.
- [38:11]
Gerald Malone
And it's important to know that it took some persuading of the masters to allow him to sing at all. Han Sachs managed to win the day there.
- [39:47]
Pat Wright
You're listening to opera for everyone. And we have concluded Act 1 of the three act opera, Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg by Richard Wagner.
- [39:58]
Gerald Malone
And we're coming on to act two, which is three short scenes. And the fourth scene is barnstorming mad mayhem. Wagner at his best, I can say.
- [40:10]
Pat Wright
Yeah, we will listen to bits of it, but it's a little hard to make sense of at the end there. But the beginning, it starts in a quite lovely fashion with just some introductory music. And the chorus will come in and tell us how excited they are for this new day, St. John's Day. And this is St. John who baptized Jesus. And that was what was being sung about in the church scene in the very beginning of Acts 1.
- [40:39]
Gerald Malone
It ties it together very neatly with Act 1.
- [41:45]
Pat Wright
We're out in the street and by the way, on either side of the street, we have the home of Hanzaks, our cobbler. And we have the home of Eva Pogner and her father, the goldsmith. In this scene, early on, we're going to get to witness Magdalena hearing from David that Walter had not done well. He was not able to train Valter to pass the test of the masters. Too many errors. It's over. It's over for him is what David tells her. And she's really annoyed.
- [42:19]
Gerald Malone
And Magdalena takes away the basket of food that he's got his hands on.
- [42:24]
Pat Wright
A sausage that's part of her power.
- [42:27]
Gerald Malone
Has to put the sausage back and off she goes, presumably to tell her mistress.
- [42:33]
Pat Wright
That's right. And Sox is going to come out and be annoyed at David also, because the apprentices seem to enjoy giving David a hard time. He seems to have a little bit of status amongst them, so they give him quite a hard time.
- [42:47]
Gerald Malone
David is somebody who probably should have become a journeyman earlier. He's been around for a while and he's one of the senior apprentices and they love goading him and fighting with him. And of course Saxe finds David fighting and scalps him.
- [43:07]
Pat Wright
Yeah. So it's interesting because a lot of what we see of Sachs here is a very kind hearted man. He certainly is towards Eva. But we also see him in his role of being in charge of his apprentice. And David has to take what he gets from his master.
- [43:27]
Gerald Malone
And he does that fairly voluntarily. He realizes his shortcomings and he doesn't regret them, oddly enough. He just lives with them. And he lives with the fact that he'll get the occasional biff from Hansack.
- [43:42]
Pat Wright
Yes, well, that was the lot of an apprentice in general. I don't think it was anything unusual in this relationship.
- [43:48]
Gerald Malone
No. So after David's been caught fighting, we hear from Pogner and Eva, father and daughter. And Eva learns at this moment that it must be a master or nobody. She hears it unequivocally from her father and she hears from Magdalena that it did not go well for the nobleman. She is very upset.
- [44:13]
Pat Wright
And to make matters worse, Magdalena tells her, oh, Beckmesser's coming. He wants to serenade you below the window. And Eva is just disgusted by this thought and she says, I can't, I can't, I just can't.
- [44:26]
Gerald Malone
Well, she's got a great solution. And that put Magdalena in the window, in the frame.
- [44:32]
Pat Wright
Yes. Eve is very clever. They look enough alike that up in the dark, a story above. It'll work out just fine. And it does later on. And then in the street we have Saxe.
- [44:45]
Gerald Malone
Yes, he is cobbling in the street and ruminating on the song. And he reflects that no rule seemed to fit it and yet there was no fault in it. He's got a sense of wonder about Walter and he understands his real worth. And if he made the masters Uneasy. He certainly pleased Hans Sachs. That is a turning point in the opera because Sachs is clearly on his side.
- [45:15]
Pat Wright
Yes. And it's so interesting. We're going to listen to a little bit of what Zach sings here, but it's so interesting. We get to hear his thought process where he's saying, yeah, it didn't follow the rules, but there was no fault. There was nothing that was truly wrong. It was. It was new and. And a lot of references here. Well, really throughout, when they're talking about Walter singing to nature, to birds, to how songs really are. A sense that if you get to nature and birds and their singing, you are true to the nature of song. In fact, one of the things that Zox will say is that he was following spring's command, which we know often refers to love, and he was singing by the dictates of sweet necessity. He sang because he had to.
- [46:08]
Gerald Malone
Hans Sachs has an open mind unlike any particularly Beck messer, but unlike any of the other master singers who simply follow the rules and that's enough. You need some originality with Hans Sachs and he understands that and he appreciates that Walter is a real original.
- [48:33]
Pat Wright
That was the beloved Hans Sachs, the cobbler, master singer extraordinaire in Wagner's Die Meistersinger von Nuremberg.
- [48:43]
Gerald Malone
And he reveals himself in a startling way. This is a really moving scene between Sachs and Eva because she wonders whether or not he's a widower and might marry her.
- [48:59]
Pat Wright
Yes. Just a reminder that her house is right across the way. So she's come out, she sees he's there. She wants to have a conversation with him because she's heard from Magdalena that her beloved Walter has failed the test.
- [49:14]
Gerald Malone
She has, and she's very upset and she's leaning on Hansack's shoulder. She says, then, I thought you might take me for wife and child.
- [49:26]
Pat Wright
Right. Hans Sachs will tell us that he was once married. He did have children. We don't know the tragedy that took that all away from him. But he is alone right now and a good friend to the Bogner family.
- [49:39]
Gerald Malone
And he has brought up this child Eva from the cradle and is very much in love with her in an appropriate way. And Eva hears from Sachs as well that Walter has no hope.
- [49:56]
Pat Wright
Yes. And it's just crushing to her.
- [50:00]
Gerald Malone
Yes, it is. And Walter arrives. Yes, he's going to fight. Oh, boy. He's the man. He's the man. He's gonna fight everybody. He's going to fight. Should I suffer this? Should I not dare bravely to pitch into the fight? He's going to lash out at everybody.
- [50:17]
Pat Wright
He's a knight.
- [50:18]
Gerald Malone
He's a knight and shining armor. And he has a plan.
- [50:22]
Pat Wright
Yes. And it is interesting though, this working out of interests and concerns between Xox and Eva before Valta shows up, because she shows her affection for Xox and Xox says, yes, yes, I do love you, but not as a husband. And she tells Xox she needs his help with Valter. And Sox has great affection for Valter. He really admires him, but he's like, he's not going to make it as a Mastersinger. And Eva says, find a way. We need this.
- [50:56]
Gerald Malone
She's equivocal. You know, you can't help getting the impression that if it's up to Beckmesser, Hans Sachs will do much better for a husband to Eva than Beckmesser. That wouldn't be hard.
- [51:14]
Pat Wright
No, no, that would. It'd be very easy to be better than Beckmesser, the nasty little man that he is. But you're right, when Walter shows up, he says, I will fight for you. We will find a way. So meanwhile, Beckmesser has shown up to try to serenade Eva. But we know that that plan is going to go sideways with Magdalena in the balcony instead of Eva.
- [51:43]
Gerald Malone
Well, we don't know how badly it's going to go sideways.
- [51:47]
Pat Wright
Oh, no. This is why it's so fun at.
- [51:49]
Gerald Malone
The end of the hour, because of Hans Sach's intervention. He's a helpful marker in his own right.
- [51:56]
Pat Wright
Yes. So when Walther is determined to fight for her and he realizes he can't be a master, he has to come up with a new plan.
- [52:05]
Gerald Malone
And the plan is elopement. He's going to run off with her, but it's prevented by Han Sachs, who understands this, illuminating them in a light. And they're forced to hide on the set so they see everything that then unfolds with Beckmesser, Magdalena, Hans Sachs, they're all witnesses to it.
- [52:27]
Pat Wright
Because Xox, in his fatherly care for her, doesn't want to see a dishonorable marriage, an elopement for this beloved child, for Eva. He wants to prevent elopement and see if he can find a way to give her a happy ending.
- [52:45]
Gerald Malone
Well, they stick together, the Meistersingers. And Pogner is well respected and he does not want Pogner, the father and daughter, to be distanced, which is highly, highly commendable.
- [53:01]
Pat Wright
Well, he's an honorable man. He is very much a thoughtful and honorable man. So this mad final scene of Act 2 is going to start with the calm of the night watchman coming by, announcing 10 o'clock.
- [53:17]
Gerald Malone
He's very amusing. It's a great theatrical trick. The night watchman comes in at 10 o'clock and announces that all's well, fear the Lord. And then mayhem takes place and he comes back in at 11 o'clock and saying praise the Lord. It's quite entertaining.
- [53:36]
Pat Wright
Well, let's listen a little bit of what happens when Eva is exasperated. The trouble I have with men and XOX is allowing Beckmesser to go and serenade the woman who's up above, not Eva. But Beckmesser thinks it is. And Anzacs is cobbling away and it's a lovely song that he sings. Not that you can entirely discern that in this clip because there's so much.
- [54:02]
Gerald Malone
Other chaos going on, but the irony is that it's Beckmesser's shoes that he's cobbling and he insists that he's got to get the shoes ready and he's got to hammer them. And the hammering will be the mark.
- [54:18]
Pat Wright
Yes. And meanwhile our two lovers are just hiding in the corner because they can't yet make an escape.
- [54:24]
Gerald Malone
And what could possibly go wrong? It's the high water mark of comedy. Sachs's own song is about a different Eva. Just to add to the complexity, Beckmesser is entirely puzzled.
- [54:43]
David
Sa.
- [55:34]
Pat Wright
Asleep.
- [55:59]
David
Learned. La Sa.
- [58:16]
Narrator
You'Re listening to Opera for Everyone, a radio show and podcast that embraces drama and story through love of music. Opera for Everyone airs Sundays from 9 to 11am Mountain Time on 89.1 Khol Jackson, Wyoming's only community radio station. I'm your host, Pat Wright, joined today by Gerald Malone. If you'd like to hear more conversations about opera, please join us on the Opera for Everyone podcast. And if you subscribe and rate us, you'll be helping with our mission to bring opera to everyone by helping others find this show. Stay with us. The second half of today's show is coming right up. Welcome back to the second half of.
- [59:40]
Pat Wright
Opera for Everyone where we are listening to and talking about Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg by Richard Wagner, first produced in 1868. I'm your host, Pat Wright, and I am joined today by esteemed opera lover, opera critic and friend, Gerald Malone. Welcome back, Gerald.
- [60:04]
Gerald Malone
Well, emphasize the friend, less of the esteemed.
- [60:09]
Pat Wright
I esteem you highly. I esteem you highly.
- [60:12]
Gerald Malone
And I you.
- [60:13]
Pat Wright
And I'm so glad you're here to talk to me about this fun, serious, comic, long opera by Richard Wagner.
- [60:23]
Gerald Malone
Pat, it is everything, isn't it? It's serious, it's got a message. It's comedic elements of pure farce, unlike most Wagner. I just think it's. And beautiful, beautiful music.
- [60:39]
Pat Wright
Yes, yes and no. Death. That's kind of nice too for a change, when it comes to Wagner, well.
- [60:46]
Gerald Malone
The bad man just disappears. But that's a spoiler.
- [60:49]
Pat Wright
Yeah, that's fine. He'll go on to his life. But before we carry on talking about the story or of Agner, we'd like to take a moment and thank the people responsible for these musical clips that we've been listening to. This is from a recording made in 1995 with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and Chorus under the direction of Sir Georg Schulte.
- [61:13]
Gerald Malone
And what's interesting about Schulte is that it was his second take on it. He revised his view on Wagner and this opera and it was 20 years since he performed it on stage. He changed his mind about this opera and thought it was beautifully crafted in small folk songs and he made a very good job of it. And we've got the principals. Hans Sachs, Jose Van Damme, great star, Sixtus Messer, Alan Opie, Velt, Pogner the father, Rennie Pape, Walter the knight, Ben Hapner, David, who is the apprentice, who is such a help in a kind. Herbert Lipperton, Eva Pogner's daughter, Carita Matila, Magdalena, Iris Vermillion. And they are a superb cast, I think.
- [62:16]
Pat Wright
Yes, yes. We're so grateful for this beautiful music and for a number of these people it's early in their careers we've seen them in other things and heard them in other places as well, which is. It's a treat to hear them today.
- [62:29]
Gerald Malone
Well, Van Damme is particularly well known as a Wagner exponent and he was at his height during this and I think Schulte got the best out of him.
- [62:41]
Pat Wright
Well, it's such an important role. Hans Sachs, so critical. I mean almost an avatar for Wagner himself.
- [62:48]
Gerald Malone
Oh, I hadn't thought of that. He's self writing. He is the all seeing man. Yes, I suppose he could be Wagner, but I don't think that Wagner was as self effacing as Hans Sachs.
- [63:05]
Pat Wright
Well, certainly not. But sometimes we don't see ourselves the way other people see us.
- [63:10]
Gerald Malone
I think I would like to have Cosima Wagner's opinion about Wagner and Han Sachs. I think it would be unprintable.
- [63:20]
Pat Wright
Yeah, I mean this is a very interesting time in Wagner's life. The whole over 20 years that I mentioned earlier that this was in the creation stages. He wasn't married to Cosima in the beginning. Wagner had a kind of a messy personal life, being thrown out of different places, running away from different places because of creditors. His first wife, who wasn't happy with the lifestyle that they had together, and then Cosima, who was another man's wife when they first got together and started having children.
- [63:52]
Gerald Malone
Yes. He went to Riga at one point to the opera house there, and then had to flee from there and eventually got back to Dresden, but not for quite some time. Home territory was on the move for Wagner.
- [64:07]
Pat Wright
Yes. Someone who always had a very high opinion of himself and was famously bad with money.
- [64:13]
Gerald Malone
Well, you could excuse him being famously bad with money. And quite rightly, he had a high opinion of himself because he wrote all his libretti himself. He wouldn't let anybody else touch his artwork, and it was his responsibility. You know, sometimes you get Verdi or Puccini or they rest in somebody else's libretto. He did not. He was upfront, and it was his responsibility whether the complete artwork stood or failed.
- [64:48]
Pat Wright
Yes, yes. And he was also responsible, once he had an important and wealthy backer, for creating even a theater to house his works the way he wanted them to be presented.
- [65:01]
Gerald Malone
Well, the wealthy backer was absolutely essential and of course, carried on the tradition of Bayreuth long after his death and the feuding family. Sometimes the Meistersinger was ill represented in that opera house, and sometimes it was down to the individual director how he would interpret it. But recently, Wagner is being more reinterpreted in his own light, I'm pleased to say.
- [65:34]
Pat Wright
Yes, as the artist. Yeah. I mean, it is. Every time we talk about Wagner, there's always a little discomfort because of how Wagner's music might have been used by various German nationalists in particular. But also Wagner himself had some writings which were, I mean, frankly, anti Semitic. And people who write about Die Meistersinger will look at Beckmester with an eyebrow raised, saying, well, is he doing something anti Semitic here with this character? So there's always that somewhere in the mix with Wagner, but we're trying to take it on an artistic and story level in this conversation, and I think.
- [66:19]
Gerald Malone
You'Re entitled to do that. His views expressed in his essay about the Jews and music was absolutely disgraceful. There can be no doubt about that. But it's not quite borne out in the music. And I always take a lesson from Daniel Barenboim, who took Wagner to Israel just to prove what art could do. And knocking down barriers rather than creating them, was his purpose. And I think we should see it in that light. We can appreciate the artist and segregate it from the man.
- [66:58]
Pat Wright
Yeah. Wagner is complicated, but oh my, his music does. Does move the soul, no question.
- [67:06]
Gerald Malone
Yes, and this opera in particular has such beautiful music and different music. It's got a few leitmotifs, but not very many. Not clunkily hitting you in the head every time you turn. As often happens in Wagner's music as we will hear later on. It's very, very beautiful.
- [67:30]
Pat Wright
Well, you know, we're going to work our way up to this lovely song inspired by nature with Walter. But we need to end Act 2. However, prior to ending Act 2, we need to do the infamous Opera Helmet quiz. We need a quick recap of Acts 1 and 2. Or most of Act 2 anyway. Would you do the honors?
- [67:52]
Gerald Malone
Yeah, I'll have a bash at it.
- [67:54]
E
We're in prosperous Nuremberg, 16th century. A town of artisans. St. Catherine's Church. A visiting knight, Walter van Stolzing, approaches Eva, who's the daughter of the wealthy goldsmith Pogner. He's staying with the Pogna's and has.
- [68:09]
Gerald Malone
Developed a crush on Eva.
- [68:12]
E
Eva's at mass with her companion Magdalena. Voltaire interferes many flirtatious glances. Later Eva tells him she's promised to the winner of a song contest to be held by the local guild of Meister Singers. Pa Pogner has offered her as the prize along with his fortune. Good old dad. Eva's not pleased. Walter has a plan. He will become a meister singer. But that's not so easy. David, Magdalena's sweetheart and apprentice to the cobbler and meister singer Hans Sachs, explains the rules of song composing to a baffled Walter. It's complicated. He's never going to do it. Meanwhile, David's fellow apprentices set up some trial singing. The masters arrive, including Eva's father and Volta says he wants to try out. Along comes Beckmesser, the town clerk. He's a spiteful pedant. Are old town clerks spiteful pedants? Pat? Anyway, he also wants Eva as the prize, or at least her fortune. He's immediately suspicious of the young knight. He senses arrival as proof that tradesmen value art. Pogner publicly offers his daughter's hand as the prize for the next day's contest, but explains that she can reject the winner but must marry a meister singer or no one. Walter has to become a meister singer, introduces himself. He's a self taught singer and composer and he's absolutely mocked by the sly Beckmesser for his trial song. Walter sings an impulsive tune in praise of love. And spring, full of enthusiasm, breaks all the rules. Beckmesser noisily and gleefully marks his errors on a blackboard while hidden in a marking tent. As to be expected, he's rejected by the masters. Walter leaves. But you know what, Pat? Sachs is surprised. He wonders about the unexpected appeal of Walter's song. And we move on to Act 2. Outside Pogner's house, David tells Magdalena about Volta's short shrift. Eva in turn gets the disappointing news from Magdalena. All Volta bets are off. Across the street, Sachs sits down to work in his doorway, cobbling as cobblers do. But the memory of Walter's song distracts him. There's something in it that he strives to understand. Eva appears, hoping to learn more about the knight's trial. Sachs mentions Beckmesser, hopes to win her the next day. That's a ghastly prospect for Eva. She suggests better if Sachs himself won the contest. Sachs is a widower, has known Eva since she was a child, and it's.
- [71:13]
Gerald Malone
All a bit weird.
- [71:15]
Pat Wright
Yes.
- [71:15]
E
Asked about Walter, he pretends to disapprove of the young man, but he really wants to know what she thinks of him. It leads Eva to reveal her true feelings and to run off. Sachs needs to know and will plan in her interests from here on in. He's her ally.
- [71:33]
Pat Wright
Yeah.
- [71:34]
E
In the street, she's met by Walter, who convinces her they've got no other option but to elope. The two hide as a night watchman passes by Pat, the plot is thickening. Edge of seats stuff.
- [71:51]
Pat Wright
Yes. And you think that would be exciting enough to end the act? But there's more. Yes, it's all going to end with pandemonium with everyone, the neighbors even, all pile out into the street. As Zox, who is trying to figure things out for himself, he still becomes the master of the situation because he does succeed in preventing the elopement. But he decides he wants to help this marriage to take place honorably. And he does succeed in thwarting Beckmesser by more or less appearing to support Beckmesser. Sure, I'll be your marker. But he's not really very helpful to Beckmesser. Beckmesser is so self important that we don't mind seeing him taken down a peg by Zox.
- [72:37]
Gerald Malone
And as I said previously, what could possibly go wrong with Beckmesser? Well, Hans Sachs has a different outcome for him because he's got his shoes and he's hammering away at his shoes. And as Beckmesser used the chalk Marker board. He uses his shoes as an anvil to mark Beckmesser's song and it's a hopeless song. He breaks the rules, he shouts at Sachs and it's utter chaos. Hammers away at the shoes, finishes them and he says to Beckmesser, I'll call them marker shoes. And at that moment Beckmesser is further discombobulated because the neighbours appear. David appears and he sees Magdalena in the window and he's jealous. And what's Magdalena doing there? He recognizes his girl in the window and he struggles with Beckmesser and takes a stick to him and beats him up. And then the journeyman and the apprentices all enjoy a brawl.
- [73:47]
Pat Wright
Oh yeah.
- [73:48]
Gerald Malone
Come on, Journeyman. At em they sing and the womenfolk and the meistersingers appear and Pogner drags Eva away. Saxe belts David and drags Walter into the shop. And by the time the night watchman appears, all is settled. Hear that? No evil spirit ensnare your soul. Praise the Lord, he says. Well, night watchmen weren't up to very much in those days. They came on the hour and what happened within the hour was just amazing.
- [74:22]
Pat Wright
Yes, it's a rollicking finish to act two of this three act opera.
- [75:13]
David
Sat sa.
- [76:52]
Pat Wright
This is opera for everyone. And we have finished Act 2 of our three act opera, Richard Wagner's Die Meistersinger von Nuremberg. We're ready to start the third and final act.
- [77:06]
Gerald Malone
Yes, we have a prelude in five scenes. In scene one, David and Saxe are in reflective mood. David points out that Sachs would beat Bess Mechter in a song contest. And you know, it's a sort of reality check. What's going to happen? Should he step in, should he not? And there's a last lingering thought that Sachs should marry Eva. Ah, master, you must go wooing again. We keep revolving around this plot. Should he? Should he not? But of course he doesn't.
- [77:41]
Pat Wright
He doesn't, and there'll be more on that later. And he's not ready to really engage in that conversation. But he is ready now. He wasn't earlier to help David with his own singing, his own apprentice, not just for cobbling, but also for singing. And that goes okay. Not great. Illustrating for us that becoming a master singer is a difficult pursuit. It's not something that you can do in a day. This ambition of Walter's is kind of crazy.
- [78:13]
Gerald Malone
Well, it's mad, isn't it? He thinks that he can stir up in a day all the skills that it's taken David and David's a really good example of somebody who is assiduously spent time learning the rules, hopefully to become a master singer. And has not quite reached yet. Walter hopes to do it in 10 minutes.
- [78:38]
Pat Wright
Yeah, well, here it is, it's St. John's Day and David will point out to us, oh, it's your name day, Hans, meaning John in German. But Zox is not yet in a celebratory mood. He's trying to sort out the craziness of the night and the craziness of the situation.
- [79:01]
Gerald Malone
Yes, he's scheming and one can't help thinking that he's scheming in anticipation of Walter appearing. He wants to work out what's going to happen when he comes and encourage him to enter into this contest and try to succeed.
- [79:20]
Pat Wright
Yeah. And sure enough, Zox greets Valter in the morning. We'll recall that Xox pulled him into his own home at night because he didn't trust him to be unsupervised with his plans for Eva.
- [79:34]
Gerald Malone
Well, he's going to escape with Eva, so bring him in. Bring him in. Keep him under house arrest.
- [79:39]
Pat Wright
Yeah. So how did you sleep? I mean, that's often how you greet a house guest. And Walter says, I had the most wonderful dream.
- [79:47]
Gerald Malone
It's a dream. And it's precisely the poet's task to interpret and record his dreaming, says Sachs, dispensing his wisdom. Yeah, well, he spots an opportunity when he sees one inspiration in Walter. And why not let that take its chance with the master singer's prize?
- [80:09]
Pat Wright
Yes, he says, oh, your dream, that's the key. You might be able to win her with the beauty and the inspiration from your dream.
- [80:18]
Gerald Malone
But we've moved on from the last performance that Walter had. Sax encourages him to sing the song Conform to the Rules. Come on, boy, you can't completely flout the rules. They are respected. Han Sachs encourages him to sing the song Conform to the Rules, and he's reluctant to do so to start with, but he points out that that probably stands the best chance of success and he has to respect the rules still, even though he is inspired, that's a separate matter. It's within the context of the song competition and he foresees that that will allow him to argue Walter's case with the Meistersingers.
- [81:07]
Pat Wright
Yes, Zox is teeing up to help Eva to win her love, just as he's working to help Valter succeed within the rules of the game. And when we see Valter, I mean, being understandably annoyed at the confining rules and these Old men all wrapped up in. This is how it's been, this is how it must be. Zo tries to temper that a little bit. He says, these are honorable men, you must respect them. You can perhaps change their mind, influence them, but understand that your song of true passion, it's not just that it broke rules, it. It made them nervous, it made them uneasy, because it is men and their passions who seduce their daughters. Remembering after all, Valter and Ava nearly ran away to elope last night. So Xox knows that he's making a point that Valter will understand. And Valter seems a little bit willing to accept the advice of this master singer.
- [82:14]
Gerald Malone
Valter, last night was prepared to break all the rules, never mind the singing competitions, and to run away with Eva. And he slowly, slowly, slowly takes encouragement from Hans Sachs and sort of nods in agreement that he will try this and he will try his best, but not to diminish the inspiration of his song, but to see if it can be made acceptable.
- [85:13]
Pat Wright
Now we have Walter and Han Sachs working together towards the same goal. Han Sachs, who now feels he's fully behind Walter because he sees that's what's going to make Eva truly happy. And in his emphasis that Walter must learn the rules, he relates it to, in a way, a more mature love. Sure, you can have the fire and the excitement of first love, but for the love to last, you need to cherish the rules. You need to respect your world where you're living. Which I found a very fascinating point for him to make.
- [85:58]
Gerald Malone
The song is in fact a substitute for Eva. It's gotta conform to the rules, as his marriage to Eva has to conform to the rules. And he takes the step of saying to Walter, this is undisciplined. You're all over the place, mate. I'm going to write this down and I will write it. Conform to the rules. And they spend a long time listening to verse one, verse two, and perhaps a verse three. And he is very pleased, Hans Sachs is very pleased with the result.
- [86:35]
Pat Wright
Yes, Hans Sachs is, because he recognized the potential in Walter. But he's. He's saying, yes, I can learn from you, but you can learn from me as well. You sing, you share your dream, I'll take dictation, they will be your words, but I will put it down on paper and I will tell you the form. Enough of the form. So, yes, it's something new, but it is within the context of existing expectations. It's really very lovely in a way.
- [87:06]
Gerald Malone
They've been circling around each other. Walter hasn't really known whether he could trust Sachs because he was equivocal relationship with Eva, etc. And this time they settle their differences. Walter understands that Sachs is his support and is the best chance he has of getting Eva. And they go on to cooperate.
- [87:34]
Pat Wright
They do indeed, and it's all going well. But of course Beckmesser has to show up.
- [87:40]
Gerald Malone
Well before that. There's a surprising scene which some of these things happen in opera. Hi presto. A faithful servant has turned up, Walter's servant, who has happened to bring a celebration outfit in a suitcase with him. And how did he know that? Hopeful thinking, I guess Tucks are us. So Walter and Hans Sachs are off the scene, having left the score carefully on the table. And Beckmesser appears. He climbs in the window and steals the song. He's still staggering from his beating with David. And he's found by Sachs that Herr Beckmesser has turned thief. Here is very welcome for my plan. This couldn't have turned out better because he knows that Beckmesser is going to make many mistakes as he has done singing the song outside he thought Eva's window, Magdalena's window, and he will make a mess of it.
- [88:46]
Pat Wright
Well, exactly, because Beckmesser, just as David assumed, thinks that Xox is going to go after the prize himself so that he can marry Eva. Xox and Eva know better. But when he sees this poem written down, the words from Walter's song, Beckmesser's like, oh, I've got the gold here, I've got the wooing song from xox. But it's very disorienting to Beckmesser when Zox says fine, take that piece of paper, you can use it, I don't care.
- [89:16]
Gerald Malone
Beckmesser doesn't understand it. No, and Beckmetter is entirely suspicious. He veers from being delighted that he's got the song to being what's he up to? And he doesn't relinquish the song, he keeps it tucked under his coat and.
- [89:33]
Pat Wright
With every intention of using it, which in fact he does. Oh yes, but Han Sachs is not worried because, well, number one, Beckmesser doesn't have the true feeling necessary to carry off the song. But it's just the poem and he won't A, he won't remember it. Those aren't his words, those aren't his feelings. And B, he won't match it up properly with the tune, the melody that it requires, as Walter had done.
- [89:59]
Gerald Malone
And according to the rules, he will fall foul of his own rules when it comes to singing this song. And he just is incapable of comprehending the blend of the virtuous sentiment and the rules within which they are being sung.
- [90:19]
Pat Wright
Yes. And moving along in this very rich show with all of its story, we're going to have another encounter with Xox and Eva. Valder is working on his song. But the encounter between Xox and Eva directly is part of what really caught my attention in this show, with this young woman talking to this older man for whom she has great affection. But she's very confused. Still, Zox and Valter are very clear about how they want this to play out. And Eva adores Valter. But Eva also adores Xox and she still reflects on her past thoughts that Xox would perhaps become a husband to her. Not that she's advocating for it right now, but she lets Xox know, and therefore lets us know that you are the man who made me bloom. You are the one who awakened me to womanhood. Essentially.
- [91:23]
Gerald Malone
She can't let go of that. And when she comes in, she has the most fantastic double entendre. She says that the shoe pinches. Of course, who else to fix the shoe than Han Sachs? But it's a double entendre. The master should, you know better. I where the shoe pinches me. So she is admitting that Han Sachs really knows her. It's a reference to the marriage with Beckmesser. This is absolute hell for her and she will not go through with it.
- [91:58]
Pat Wright
No.
- [91:58]
Gerald Malone
And she's relying on Hans Sachs to help her out of it.
- [92:02]
Pat Wright
Yes. And even if it means she has to give up on her dream of Walter and have socks instead, that is infinitely preferable to Beckmesser. But there's this wonderful Wagner reference in here because recently one of his shows was the story of Tristan und Isolde, which is a powerful. It's an old story which then is turned into an opera by Wagner. But Xox says to her point blank, I will not be King Mark.
- [92:35]
Gerald Malone
That's right. Absolutely.
- [92:37]
Pat Wright
King Mark. He is the older gentleman in the story of Tristan in Isolde, the two young people who fall in love and there's a love potion involved. But the heart of the King Mark piece of this is he's the older man who has a claim to the younger woman who falls in love with the young knight. And King Mark is a tragic figure. Well, they're all tragic figures. But Zok says, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to mess up your life. I'm not going to be that older man. And there's Even musical clips in there for the people who are very familiar with all of these works. But just the reference from a story point of view is very powerful here.
- [93:17]
Gerald Malone
Yeah, it is. And then there's a touching handover to Walter's embrace. This is the final moment when he relinquishes control. And he says, a cobbler's work is not without his problems. He is the master of superb understatement. And he knows that if Volta performs, he will have done his job.
- [93:44]
Pat Wright
That's right.
- [93:45]
Gerald Malone
And Eva responds to that. Osaka, my friend, dear man. He will go on to be her friend. Whatever.
- [93:54]
Pat Wright
Yes. A friend to them both. And of supreme importance here is the birth of something new when these two people come together, when Walter has harnessed his potential for singing.
- [94:07]
Gerald Malone
Yes. He sings the song and Sachs says, a child has been born here. He means a master melody has been created. And this is something completely new. It is to the credit of the master singers that this will redound. It's something that's a new format and conformed to the rules, but novel.
- [94:32]
Pat Wright
It's lovely. And the anthropomorphization of this song being born. It is going to have a christening, that there are godparents involved. It's very much in the context of the religious setting that we've had, but also the very human setting of song.
- [94:52]
Gerald Malone
And it shows the importance of this to the master singers and to Hans Sachs and to David and to Eva and to Magdalene. They hold hands during the ceremony. And there is a ceremony of the child has been born here which is so touching. It's not true.
- [95:15]
Pat Wright
Yes. And David and Magdalena being involved. It's very interesting because in and amongst all of this, David receives another blow from Xox. But it's not a blow.
- [95:27]
Gerald Malone
Ah, it's a friendly blow. It's a friendly blow. He promotes David to journeyman and gives him a quiet knock on his way out of the apprenticeship. I think. And I think the cobbler's shop is closed for business after that, not probably before. The most evocative ensemble in the whole opera.
- [95:49]
Pat Wright
Yes. Yes. And just one comment about that blow. It's like when a knight is dubbed, that you get the blow on the knight.
- [95:55]
Gerald Malone
Oh, I hadn't thought of that.
- [95:57]
Pat Wright
Well, and even more so, very much a medieval practice to inflict pain to ensure a memory is made. And when he gives the blow to David, he says, I forthwith make the boy a journeyman. Kneel down, David. Arise and think of that blow. And you shall remember the christening as well.
- [96:21]
Gerald Malone
Well, he won't forget it.
- [96:22]
Pat Wright
Yeah. And that was actually a very common medieval practice. When you had witnesses to something important, you inflicted serious pain so that they remembered what they witnessed. And that is exactly what's happening here. And Zox says you will remember the christening of this new melody.
- [96:40]
Gerald Malone
Yes.
- [96:40]
Pat Wright
And let's now hear a little bit of all of this, including the ensemble to which you just referred.
- [97:45]
David
J SA J in Father Grace of Throne.
- [102:35]
Pat Wright
We'Re making progress in this very long opera by Richard Wagner, Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg. We've got most of our sympathetic characters on the same page at this point. It's time for the festival, and there is a great deal of music and affection and pageantry. As the festival begins, we have the various craftspeople showing up. There is dancing. But we're going to get to our main characters, you and I. We're going to talk about what's happening with them.
- [103:06]
Gerald Malone
Yeah. But just before we do that, there's a very important point. There's horsing around of the apprentices and goatskins, remembering a previous era in Nuremberg, where the apprentices dressed up in goatskins to get attackers away from the city walls. And all of them take part. Bakers, tailors, shoemakers. This is a real emphasis on the.
- [103:34]
Pat Wright
Trades, it really is. And medieval life, I think.
- [103:38]
Gerald Malone
Yes. And what celebration we have. And Sachs is the mc. He's been appointed the MC to compare proceedings. And he first of all calls on Beckmesser, of course, who has concealed the song. He is the one with the magic potion, he thinks, I wonder how he's going to do.
- [104:00]
Pat Wright
Not well, I'm afraid. It's not his song. He doesn't have the feeling behind it.
- [104:05]
Gerald Malone
Well, it turns out to be absolute gibberish. And he's also suffering still from the ill effects of his night with David. He's stumbling and he falls over the plinth when he stands up to sing. And some of the words that he sings are just utterly ridiculous. The master singers shake their heads. What's up with him? He's well known to be the marker, but he ain't up to the mark today.
- [104:33]
Pat Wright
No, he's not. And then he, of course says, oh, I was. I. He tried to mess me up. He gave me this song and it's his song. It's all his fault. And Zoc says, I never said it was my song. It's not my song.
- [104:48]
Gerald Malone
No. Some of the words are just unbelievable. The dog blew wavingly what I long desired. He just didn't get it. I Think the point is. The point is he was not up to the job of being the poet and the songster that Walter would be.
- [105:09]
Pat Wright
Well, exactly. And he thought, oh, if I just take the words that he thought anyway, Hans Sachs had written all will be well. But he couldn't even steal correctly. It was. It's very sad, but it's also very comical when it happens.
- [105:24]
Gerald Malone
I don't know how he got the words that wrong, but whatever he misinterpreted.
- [105:29]
Pat Wright
He had a rough night. But when Xox is accused of trying to thwart Beckmesser, he says, well, it wasn't my song, but it is someone's song. And that person could witness to the quality of these words if it's the right person. And lo and behold, Walter shows up.
- [105:53]
Gerald Malone
It takes the interpreter of Walter to get the mood right.
- [105:58]
Pat Wright
That's right. And when Valter sings his song, it takes everyone's breath away.
- [106:06]
Gerald Malone
It's palpable in the action how the change of mind of the Meistersingers takes place. It's slowly, by fusion, they suddenly realize that the worth of this man, the worth of his song. And I think they appreciate that it was done within the rules. But the sentiment is just unique.
- [108:03]
Pat Wright
The.
- [108:29]
David
Of this morning.
- [109:20]
Pat Wright
Walter's song. Beautiful song. Thank you, Walter. Thank you, Hans Sachs. And the acclamation of the people is the first that we hear definitively. And they all say, give him the prize. Walter has won our hearts. And this is right in keeping with what Hans Zach said much earlier in the show, that the response of the people, the response of the untutored, is worthy. It matters.
- [109:55]
Gerald Malone
Yes. It's not just master singers, you know, they're judging them. It's all the common people who get right behind Walter in this song.
- [110:04]
Pat Wright
Yes. And the masters echo or reinforce what is said by the people. Yes. Take the wreath. Your song has won you a place as a master.
- [110:16]
Gerald Malone
But there's a surprise. Walter doesn't want the wreath, but says, I will be happy without master. And he thinks that he can get the girl but not be a meistersinger because secretly he still looks down on them somewhat and he has to be upbraided. And there comes a crucial last minute turning point in this opera, which is Sachs rebuke to him, scorn not the masters, I bid you, and honor their art. And Walter reflects and changes his mind.
- [110:59]
Pat Wright
Yes. Walter has done a very human thing. He's rejected the people who initially rejected him. And Zak says, that's not the way to success, my boy. It is simply not the way to success. You have something to offer. Join in with this establishment. And it's not for you to simply go off on your own. You won't succeed that way. But if you join with this establishment, you can do great things again. I can't help thinking about Wagner himself, who was so roundly criticized by so many, much loved by many music lovers, but also roundly criticized by many of the critics, that he wasn't doing things the way masters of old had done.
- [111:45]
Gerald Malone
Well, of course, it's a fable, I think, that Wagner was breaking out of various norms, doing things differently, writing libretti, doing his own thing, and very much going in his own direction. But he conformed to strict rules of his own making. And I think Walter is Wagner writ large.
- [112:13]
Pat Wright
Yeah. Yes. Although I maintain he's a little bit of both, a little bit of Walter, a little bit of Xax, the wisdom that comes with it. And as you mentioned earlier, he had had a lot of his life where he was forced to live outside of Germany. And this is a period of time when he is now permitted back in the German states. He is now permitted back home, essentially. And at the end here he is singing about the importance of, he even calls it holy German art, regardless of any influence from any other peoples hold sacred this German art. That's part of what Zox will tell to Valter and obviously everyone else who's listening, that it's very nationalistic at the end, a sense of self pride. And the whole thing will end with the people reiterating re emphasizing exactly what Sachs has said about the importance of their own art. And after all, Wagner was trying to create a Germanic, a German style of opera and song.
- [113:18]
Gerald Malone
But it's important to realize that he was creating that in the interests of art of the people.
- [113:24]
Pat Wright
That's right.
- [113:25]
Gerald Malone
And not dictated by aristocratic kings of the various principalities of Germany. And he believed in the people's art. He believed in the people's art of Nuremberg. He saw in that an ideal and.
- [113:42]
Pat Wright
He followed it through very, very much so. In fact, he. He had some bad interactions with the powers of politics. Yes, it's very much. He's an artist and you know, what art? What art?
- [113:55]
Gerald Malone
He was an outsider.
- [113:56]
Pat Wright
Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, sometimes embraced by people in power, but as often as not, he annoyed them and that didn't last. So. Yeah.
- [114:06]
Gerald Malone
But then we get to the most touching moment of this opera. The absolute fulfillment of the dream. The wreath is handed to Eva to place on whose head she chooses to place it on Sachs head. It is the most moving moment, I think, of any in opera. It's unbelievable.
- [114:32]
Pat Wright
Yes, it's a romantic comedy, but with such heart, such feeling and such purpose.
- [114:38]
Gerald Malone
It just shows that comedy can highlight and emphasize something that is above and beyond it. I think that the relationship between Hans Sachs and Eva is consummated in the handing over of that wreath.
- [114:56]
Pat Wright
Yeah, it's a beautiful show. As we said earlier, if you have a chance to see it in person streaming, grab that chance. Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg by Richard Wagner.
- [115:08]
Gerald Malone
And they are mostly very, very good productions around today.
- [115:15]
Pat Wright
Well, Gerald Malone, thank you so much for joining me today to talk about this opera on Opera for Everyone.
- [115:24]
Gerald Malone
It's been a real pleasure, Pat. Thank you for allowing me to share with you and your listeners my enthusiasm for perhaps Wagner's only Opera for Everyone. But that doesn't include Herr Beckmesser.
- [115:41]
Pat Wright
Thank you so much.
- [116:31]
Narrator
Thanks for listening to this episode of Opera for Everyone. I've been your host today, Pat Wright, joined by opera critic Gerald Malone. Opera for Everyone airs every Sunday morning from 9 to 11am Mountain Time on 89.1 Khol in Jackson, Wyoming. If you've missed any of today's show, you can find this episode and many others on the Opera for Everyone podcast. And while you're there, please subscribe, rate and comment. By doing this, you'll be helping others to find us. I know opera can be unfamiliar and challenging, but everyone loves a good story, and a story set to music is even better. That's why the mission of this show is to make opera enjoyable for everyone. Opera for Everyone.