Ep. 139 Le Prophète by Meyerbeer

Summary

Opera for Everyone – Ep. 139: Le Prophète by Meyerbeer

Host: Pat Wright
Guest Co-host: Gerald Malone
Date: February 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into Giacomo Meyerbeer’s grand opera, Le Prophète, dissecting its musical splendor, compelling history, and dramatic narrative. Host Pat Wright and guest co-host Gerald Malone use their characteristic warmth and wit to examine Meyerbeer’s meteoric 19th-century fame, reasons for his neglect in the 20th century, and the opera’s magnificent but turbulent political, religious, and personal dramas. With playful banter and keen historical insight, they unpack the opera’s themes, production history, major characters, and standout musical moments—making a somewhat forgotten work accessible and irresistibly intriguing.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

Meyerbeer in Context: Fame, Scandal, and Obscurity

• Meyerbeer’s Legacy and Rise
  • Meyerbeer was the most produced opera composer in 19th-century Europe—more than Verdi, Wagner, or Rossini ([01:17]).
  • Came from a wealthy, intellectually prominent Berlin family, allowing financial independence and negotiation power as an artist ([03:08]).
  • “He was the most produced opera composer in all the major opera houses of Europe in the 19th century. More than Verdi, more than Wagner, more than Rossini, more than anyone.” – Pat ([01:17])
• Wagner’s Jealousy and Antisemitism
  • Wagner’s personal animosity, rooted in jealousy and antisemitism, led to “denouncing” Meyerbeer and influencing his later obscurity under the Nazis ([01:40–02:25]).
  • “Wagner was a pretty jealous man who needed money, and he saw Meyerbeer had plenty...” – Gerald ([01:40])
• High versus Popular Art
  • Meyerbeer’s commercial success, and comfort with popularity, drew skepticism from “serious” artists, a tension still seen with figures like Bernstein, Andrew Lloyd Webber, or Taylor Swift ([04:47–06:01]).
  • “It's an interesting thing to ponder whether an artist who tries to be commercially successful should be seen as less than. I don't think so.” – Pat ([05:40])
• Suppression and Revival
  • Meyerbeer’s works were banned under Hitler, and his music faded; the hosts discuss the possibility and need for modern revivals ([06:01–06:29]).
  • “We think we're ripe for a revival of Meyerbeer operas.” – Pat ([06:01])

Opera and Story: Setting, Characters, and Historical Context

Time & Setting

• 16th-century Holland and Germany during the Anabaptist takeover of Munster (1530–1535) ([07:21]).
• Meyerbeer contracted for this opera in 1838, finished by 1842, only premiering in 1849 due to his high artistic standards ([07:52–08:10]).

Main Characters

• Jean (John) of Leyden: The “prophet”—reluctant, manipulated, ultimately self-deluded leader.
• Fides: His fiercely loyal mother, a mezzo-soprano role requiring enormous strength ([18:01–18:57]).
• Bertha: His betrothed, an orphan soprano with a “blazing coloratura aria” ([14:28–14:41]).
• Count Oberthal: Villainous local tyrant (the archetypal cartoonish but, in the right production, menacing overlord).
• The Anabaptists (Zachary, Jonas, Mathieson): Political and religious agitators, both revolutionary and opportunistic ([11:21]).

Notable Character Dynamics

• Fides and Bertha represent two extremely strong female figures; their relationship with Jean is among the opera’s most affecting aspects ([16:50–17:15]).
• Jean is caught in the cross-currents of love, political manipulation, and maternal loyalty.

Plot Breakdown with Key Moments

Act 1 – The Peasant Storm

• Opens with an idyllic, pastoral peasant chorus, quickly undercut by the arrival of the sinister Anabaptists ([13:10]).
• “Meyerbeer is setting the scene ready for a storm that the Anabaptists are going to create. The happy peasants, maybe mythological...” – Gerald ([13:10])
• Bertha enters, enthralling the stage with her entrance aria. She is betrothed to Jean, having been saved by him ([14:28–15:11]).
• The Anabaptists rile up the peasants (“You think you’re happy, you’re not happy... your overlords are brutal...”) ([23:35]).
• Oberthal arrives, his tyranny quashes peasant rebellion; he orders Fides and Bertha arrested ([27:06–28:08]).

Act 2 – Dilemmas and Betrayals

• Setting: the inn in Leiden, Jean and Fides’s home ([32:40]).
• Anabaptists try to recruit Jean, noting he resembles King David and is the subject of his own messianic dreams ([33:16–34:22]).
• Jean’s inner conflict: Justice vs. Love. He’s forced to choose between saving his mother or protecting Bertha (Oberthal threatens to kill Fides if Bertha is not surrendered; Jean capitulates, sacrificing his beloved) ([41:08–42:09]).
• Fides blesses Jean for his sacrifice, highlighting the opera’s focus on parental loyalty ([42:20–42:44]).
• Jean, traumatized and wanting revenge, resolves to join the Anabaptists—his transformation from dreamer to vengeful leader ([44:27–46:41]).

[Timestamp] Notable Scene

• “[Oberthal] says, ‘I will kill your mother if you don’t turn Bertha over to me.’... I gasped. When he literally goes over to Bertha’s hiding place and grabs her out and throws her into the arms of this horrible man.” – Pat ([41:49])

Act 3 – Revolution, Spectacle, and Roller Skates

• The Anabaptist army, now ascendant, prepares to storm Munster ([53:00]).
• Historical detail: First use of electric lighting and roller-skating “ballet” in Paris opera for visual spectacle ([53:41–55:02]).
• “If you look up the history of the roller skates, which, of course, I did...” – Pat ([54:16])
• Peasants clamor for blood; leaders focus on extracting ransoms ([70:00–70:35]).
• Ballet sequence marks a pause in serious action with extended dance and ‘ice-skating peasants’ ([76:13–76:34]).
• Obertal, in disguise, tries to join Anabaptists but is exposed ([77:24–79:32]).
• Jean saves Oberthal—for his own vengeful purposes—and learns Bertha survived ([81:59–82:24]).
• Jean rallies the crowd with a masterful display of rhetoric (“Who told you to go to Munster? Not me...”); crowd’s support restored ([84:10–86:13]).

Act 4 – Coronation and Family Crisis

• Jean is crowned leader (“King of the New Jerusalem”) in a lavish coronation—one of opera’s great spectacle scenes ([92:20–93:14]).
• “...even Verdi praised it. And when he at one point was working with that same librettist, Eugene Scribe, he says, write me something with spectacle, something grand like Meyerbeer’s coronation scene.” – Pat ([92:27])
• Fides, now a wretched, begging woman, recognizes Jean; her loyalty is put to the ultimate test ([98:13]).
• In the presence of the crowd, Jean denies his mother to protect her from execution, forcing her to disavow their relationship ([100:02–101:14]).
• “He tries to be compassionate with her, playing this role of religious leader: Oh, poor deluded woman...” – Pat ([101:28])
• Fides later realizes Bertha intends to assassinate the prophet, not knowing it’s Jean ([101:55]).

Act 5 – Catastrophe & Redemption

• The Anabaptists plan to betray Jean to the advancing Imperial troops ([102:24]).
• Fides and Jean finally confront each other in the dungeon, leading to his genuine repentance and emotional reconciliation ([105:03–106:09]).
• Fides: “Through your mother’s voice, I am offering you a chance at redemption, a chance for heaven’s pardon.” ([105:53])
• Bertha, brokenhearted, kills herself upon realizing the identity of the prophet is her beloved Jean ([111:09–111:23]).
• In the opera’s climax, Jean blows up Munster’s palace with himself, his mother, and the conspirators inside—preferring death and redemption over submission ([112:15–113:32]).
• “All are guilty and all are punished. And there’s a sane feeling that he’s almost punishing himself as well...” – Gerald ([112:45])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Meyerbeer’s Obscurity
  “Wagner just loathed, despised and tried to blot out and was largely successful. Meyerbeer was very, very infrequently played in the 20th century, a little bit more now in the 21st century.” – Pat ([06:01])
• Character at a Crossroads
  “He’s a man who’s been put in many dilemmas... and it’s a real test of the strength of his character.” – Gerald ([41:33])
• Fides’ Power
  “She just... I mean, it’s been a long opera. And the power that the voice brings to this role and how she holds the stage and how she dominates, she’s the linchpin of the whole thing...” – Pat ([109:06])
• On Spectacle in Opera
  “Imagine being in Paris at that time in 1849, and suddenly you see peasants carrying things and skating across the stage illuminated by electric light for the first time. Of course, you’d go back. That’s what it was all about.” – Gerald ([55:02])
• Satirical Aside
  “I was reminded of a film that I liked very much, the Life of Brian, where one of the characters says, ‘He’s not the Messiah, he’s just a naughty little boy.’” – Gerald ([98:22])

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Character and Thematic Analysis

• Jean: From dreamer to manipulated leader to self-acknowledged prophet, then penitent—his journey is one of psychological malleability, tragic ambition, and final self-annihilation.
• Fides: Moral anchor of the opera; her maternal love drives act and redemption, and her loyalty is both a strength and a source of tragedy.
• Bertha: Victim of political and personal machinations; stands for the cost of fanaticism and misplaced revolutionary zeal.
• Oberthal and Anabaptists: Both authoritarians, their cynical manipulation of faith and social unrest provides a critique of power and populism.

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------|------------| | Meyerbeer’s fame and Wagner rivalry | 01:17–03:57| | Meyerbeer's commercial success vs. "high art" | 04:47–06:01| | Act 1 – Peasant chorus/Anabaptists incite | 13:10–24:53| | Bertha’s aria and Jean’s love | 14:28–16:07| | Jean’s Dilemma: Mother or Beloved? | 41:08–42:09| | Fides' aria and maternal triumph | 42:20–43:05| | Act 3: Skating scene/ballet spectacle | 53:41–76:22| | Anabaptists’ betrayal and Oberthal unmasked | 77:24–82:24| | Act 4: Coronation scene, Self-delusion | 92:20–95:35| | Fides’ recognition/rejection scene | 98:13–101:28| | Final Act: Dungeon reconciliation | 105:03–106:09| | Bertha’s suicide and Jean’s fiery end | 111:05–113:32|

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Additional Insights

• Production Innovations: Use of electric lighting and onstage roller skating marked Meyerbeer’s embrace of innovation and spectacle.
• Marketing Genius: Meyerbeer insisted on press coverage and claqueurs; parallels drawn to modern Broadway “applause tracks.” ([73:27–74:13])
• Enduring Themes: The hosts compare aesthetic snobbery, commercialization, and artistic jealousy in the 19th century to present-day music and theater.
• Librettist Partnerships: Eugene Scribe’s role as librettist is highlighted, comparable to other famous composer-librettist teams (Scribe/Meyerbeer, Mozart/da Ponte, Strauss/von Hofmannsthal) ([20:14–21:18]).

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Closing Reflection

Pat and Gerald’s lively, epiphany-filled conversation makes Le Prophète’s daunting scale and reputation accessible, revealing its blend of historical intrigue, personal drama, musical innovation, and grand spectacle. In the end, this episode encourages listeners not just to appreciate Meyerbeer's craft, but to question the fickle fortunes of opera fame and to advocate for the revival of overlooked masterpieces.

[End of content summary, skipping show outro and credits]

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to another edition of Opera for Everyone. I'm your host, Pat Wright, and I am here once again with Gerald Malone. Welcome, Gerald.

[B]

Well, Gerald is thrilled to be here.

[A]

Yes, yes, we're having a really good time talking about. We talked a little bit earlier, but now we're letting everyone else in on our discussion.

[C]

Oh, I'm not sure we should do that.

[A]

That's why we're here.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Giacomo Meyerbeer and his opera Le Prophet.

[C]

Well, I was delighted that when I fell down the Meyerbeer rabbit hole, I.

[B]

Was able to see you to do this opera because, frankly, I would love to be able to say to you.

[C]

That, of course, I knew this extremely well.

[B]

I'd never heard of it till I.

[C]

Saw a production of the Bard Summerscape School, and it was fantastic. It blew my mind. It was exciting, great music and very political, which I always like in opera.

[A]

I have to say I've had my eye on doing a show on Meyerbeer for a quite, quite some time because I had read that he was the most produced opera composer in all the major opera houses of Europe in the 19th century. More than Verdi, more than Wagner, more than Rossini, more than anyone. Giacomo Meyerbeer.

[C]

And he was also the wealthiest, which I think actually caused a bit of jealousy, especially Wagner, who eventually denounced him. Wagner was a pretty jealous man who needed money, and he saw that Meyerbeer had plenty and he just didn't like the fact that he was successful, apart from the fact that he was also Jewish. And Wagner turned very nasty and anti Semitic in his essay, Music and the Jews.

[A]

Yes, yes. Let's just get this whole Wagner, Meyerbeer thing covered and out of the way.

[C]

It's important because it actually explains why Meyerbeer eventually disappeared. Because he was prescribed by Hitler as well.

[A]

Yes. He was prevented from being produced in the Third Reich.

[B]

Mind you, that's a badge of honor indeed.

[A]

But we know that Wagner was anti Semitic, and we know he had this screed against Jews in music, largely provoked by hatred, jealousy of Giacomo Meyerbeer. By the way, Giacomo sounds Italian. He adopted it, changed his name. Yeah.

[B]

He went to Italy, liked it so.

[C]

Much that he changed his name and bought the ice cream. Sorry, Gelato.

[A]

That's right. So he was born Jacob Beer, and he adopts the Meyer part of his name when his grandfather passes away.

[B]

And to a very successful family in Berlin. Intellectually successful as well as commercially.

[C]

They were very clever musicians, artists, all of those things.

[A]

Yes. And so he's well supported in his training by his family and he ends up having his own personal wealth, which gives him the ability to pursue his art. And he's very, very talented, but it also gives him a certain independence. He's not always groveling, and he can negotiate with the impresarios and does very well that way. He's also very socially skilled, and yet.

[C]

He still became a court composer in Germany. But he didn't need the lunatic funding that Wagner eventually had to to be able to fund all his great works for the Ring Cycle. Meyerbeer was successful commercially. Wagner, Lesso, and you know, I can't help thinking, having read it through, that there was a degree of resentment about that happening.

[A]

Oh, I think it's indisputable. I think Wagner was. Well, Wagner's about 20 years younger than Meyerbeer. And just to set the record straight, Wagner relies upon Meyerbeer to help pave his way in.

[C]

He asked him for a favor to get Rienzi played, first of all in Dresden, which Meyerbeer was happy to do.

[A]

Right. Well, he wanted it played in Paris. That didn't happen.

[B]

Paris, but he got it played in. Very lucky to get it played anywhere. It was a good opera, as I.

[C]

Know from listening to my opera, for everyone. And it's a very good follow on. I think this. But it was that resentment that, I think that he was behoven to a man like Meyerbeer that fueled a lot of Wagner's hatred.

[B]

And it was hatred and it passed.

[C]

On to people like Schumann, who you would not have thought would be against Meyerbeer as such.

[A]

Right. Although Schuman also. Yes, but Schumann also, as I understand it, objected to the, really, the popularity, the commercialism that Meyerbeer was comfortable with. There's a little bit of discussion in the artistic music world about, I don't know what to call it, high art and low art, but popular art versus serious music. And if you try to be successful commercially, you're instantly suspect for your talents.

[B]

Well, you just look at the controversy.

[C]

That there is around Leonard Bernstein and is he a serious man? I think one of the most serious people in 20th century music, in my view. Or was he just a song and dance man? And it's a strange thing, this resentment. He wasn't liked because he was successful and he was such a brilliant, brilliant conductor, brilliant teacher and a brilliant composer.

[A]

Yeah. It's an interesting thing to ponder whether an artist who tries to be commercially successful should be seen as less than. I don't think so.

[C]

Well, ask Andrew Lloyd Webber.

[B]

I don't think he would give you.

[C]

An answer in the negative.

[A]

Yeah, well, ask Taylor Swift while you're at it.

[B]

Exactly. Exactly.

[A]

Yeah. So Wagner just loathed, despised and tried to blot out and was largely successful. Meyerbeer was very, very infrequently played in the 20th century, a little bit more now in the 21st century. But Meyerbeer, you said it to me earlier, we think we're ripe for a revival of Meyerbeer operas.

[B]

I would hope so, but I think.

[C]

They might have to be scaled down from the grand opera that they. We.

[B]

In terms of length, and there are.

[C]

Bits that you could probably, probably truncate a little, four or five hours. And that's even when you don't put the overture in, is a bit too much. And also the grand staging, which they require, very dramatic and it's all great fun, but a bit too expensive for smaller opera companies particularly to take on. So that's why I was really amazed that the Bard Summer School. I'm sorry to go back to this, and I'm going to go to the Bard Summer School this summer because it was so good. It was fantastic.

[A]

That's wonderful. No, I haven't enjoyed that before. I'll have to check it out. Well, let's make sure we're clear about the time period here for this opera, the setting of this story about this prophet, an Anabaptist, who ends up becoming this king of the new Jerusalem. They called it Munster.

[C]

We're in Holland and in Germany.

[A]

That's the setting of the opera Holland and in Germany. And it's in the 16th century, 1530, 1535, when this period of time, when the Anabaptists take over Munster, which is what he's the head of for a period of time, but the opera itself. Meyerbeer contracts for it in 1838. He pretty much has it finished by 1842, but he socks it away. He gives it to a lawyer, an attorney, to hold onto safely, and it.

[C]

Doesn'T get produced because very my beer, he can't get it done in the way that he wants. And he's by then somebody who's able to dictate the pace. He writes an opera, it will be done my way or no way or the highway. And he just fails to see why he should compromise.

[A]

And he doesn't. It's not until 1849 that this is first premiered at the Paris Opera. And by the way, he could dictate it not just because he could rely on his own personal wealth for support, but also because in some ways, the Opera house needed to agree to his terms because his grand operas helped the opera house to survive. Before Meyerbeer and his grand operas, they were in some financial difficulty.

[C]

Declining audiences, et cetera, needed something new and innovative to attract audiences again, and Meyerbeer was it and knocked it out of the park.

[A]

There were some other grand operas before Daniel Aubert, William Tell by Giacchino Rossini. Rossini has an interesting connection to Meyerbeer. They met in Italy for the first time when Meyerbeer studied in Italy.

[B]

Yes, they did.

[C]

And they spent a lot of time together, and they became very fast friends. And that's an indication to me that being a competitor in the operatic scene didn't make you an enemy, as Wagner did. I'll try and pledge that's the last time I mentioned Wagner.

[A]

Oh, you won't be able to keep that promise.

[C]

I probably won't. I probably won't. And Rossini was extremely cut up when Meyerbeer died and was very upset.

[A]

That's right, because Rossini, in the latter part of his career, he goes to Paris.

[C]

He was in Paris and he was close by, and they talked frequently. And when you look at the diaries that Meyerbeer kept, they were frequently having dinner and presumably consuming. Turned.

[B]

Or Rossini.

[A]

Yes, yes, yes. And Rossini, it's worth noting, he was not only helpful to Meyerbeer when Meyerbeer was in Italy, he becomes the director of the Italian theater in Paris and brings the last opera that Meyerbeer writes in Italian, by the way. He writes operas. Meyerbeer writes operas in German, Italian and French. And quite a number of Italian operas. We don't hear anything about those anymore. It's just the grand operas. But Rossini helped him bring his last opera that he wrote in Italian to Paris.

[B]

Which one was that, Pat?

[C]

I've forgotten.

[A]

That's the Crusaders in Egypt.

[C]

The Crusaders in Egypt?

[A]

Not that I've seen it. Just read about it.

[C]

I don't think you're going to see it anytime soon either, unfortunately.

[A]

I don't think so.

[C]

We'll have to go on a mission to get these things produced.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that would be fun. I'd be very interested, to tell you the truth.

[B]

I think I'm going to phone the.

[C]

Grand Teton Music Festival and get some Meyerbeer.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Good luck with that.

[B]

I'm always good for luck.

[C]

It's such a great exercise, the Grand Teton.

[A]

I love Grand Teton Music Festival. You know that. It's our hometown gem for the summer months. All right, our story. We've Set the time period. Do you want to tell us about the opening of this story? Maybe.

[C]

I think we should start with the characters. We have John of Leyden, who has a mother who is called Fides.

[A]

Fides Faithful.

[C]

The faithful one. And I mean, she's remarkably like character in Fidelio.

[A]

Oh, interesting. Sure.

[C]

Unlike Bertha, who is the girlfriend, and the Count Obertal, who is the dictator of the place, and who is Mr. Evil. And then we have the three Anabaptists. We have Zachary, Jonas and Mathieson, who all sing as one, really. But they are men on a mission.

[A]

Well, and just historically speaking, the Anabaptists appear in Europe really not long after Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation. They do not succeed in the long run. But the big controversial thing that is fought against is that they dictate that baptism is only valid among a consenting mind. In other words, no infant baptism. And that's very controversial.

[C]

Yes, but what was more than that was there was a political purpose as well.

[A]

That's so true.

[C]

The political purpose.

[B]

The political purpose.

[C]

Because unlike Lutheranism and unlike really most Puritanism, they were there to upset the apple cart politically, and they wanted to throw out the existing regime and replace it with others. And they were always encouraging the population to rise up.

[A]

Right. They spoke about equality, but of course, there was hierarchy nevertheless.

[C]

Yeah, but quite often, as has been the case in other revolutions, they were always very good at lining their own pockets, the Anabaptists.

[A]

And that is depicted in one of the scenes here. Yeah, yeah. We don't even meet our character, Jean, our title character, until Act 2. We open on this gorgeous pastoral scene of the peasants singing about how happy they are with their lives, which is interesting, given what's going to follow. And this trio of Anabaptists are going to rile up the peasantry to oppose.

[C]

Well, Meyerbeer is setting the scene ready for a storm that the Anabaptists are going to create. The happy peasants, maybe mythological. Are peasants ever really happy? They always seem to be singing in.

[B]

All these choruses, etc.

[C]

But they're happy in act one.

[A]

Well, at least in the beginning of act one.

[D]

Sam.

[A]

Well, those are happy peasants. How could anything go wrong? We have another character who comes onto the scene now.

[C]

Well, we have Berta coming on, who is the girlfriend, and she is joyous with anticipation. And she really blazes onto the stage with a coloratura aria from the start.

[B]

It is just fantastic.

[C]

Maia Beer at his best. And if anybody does anything, listen to that aria. It's fantastic.

[A]

Yes, and, well, she's not just the girlfriend, she's the betrothed. Let's just meet Bertha and then we're going to tell you a little bit more about what's happening in this scene with her.

[D]

Sam. Ra.

[A]

She loves him.

[C]

How did she love him?

[B]

Did she meet him on Tinder?

[A]

Doubtful. I believe she says that he saved her life.

[C]

She's got a letter from him and.

[B]

In that letter he says, I saw.

[C]

You alone and dreaming. And that seems to have convinced her. He may have saved her in the past, etc. But actually mum is on the job to recruit her. An orphan. Berta, an orphan as one of the innkeepers, because Jean is clearly a dreamer and not up to the job.

[A]

Very interesting.

[C]

I think John was Mr. Useless.

[A]

Well, the Anabaptists will disagree with that.

[C]

Later on, but, oh, he's Mr. Pliable and Mr. Useless.

[B]

That's why it works.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He is convincible.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

It's wonderful, these two strong female characters. Bertha, the betrothed, and. And Fidesz, the mother.

[C]

And I think it's worth saying that they have an exceptionally strong relationship up to a point. We'll learn how Jean deals with that later on. But they have an unbreakable relationship and it's one of the most touching things of the opera. But they don't play it out for terribly long in the opera. But it's well worth paying attention to.

[A]

It is. And in this case, we're going to have Fides show up pretty quickly, the mother, because she's gone to fetch the betrothed to bring her back to Leiden, where John is.

[B]

Yes, she has, and the father's dead.

[C]

And Fides are extremely worried about who's going to take over the inn, because it's certainly not going to be John. Maybe he's going to drink all the profits, who knows? But that is why Bertha is brought onto the scene. And perhaps in Fides's mind, it's probably.

[B]

Secondary that she is in love with John.

[A]

Perhaps. Speaking of Fides, I'd love to just get in people's minds what a strong character. This mezzo soprano. Bertha's a soprano. Fides is a mezzo, and she is such a strong character.

[C]

And it needed the strong character for Meyerbeer to be able to say, I'm going to put this on and it's going to be credible.

[A]

Well, that's part of the reason he tucked it away with the attorneys for years, because he couldn't get the right singer. The director of the opera had a mistress who was the primary mezzo soprano. And Meyerbeer said, no, no, no, she is not up to the task.

[C]

She had a hellish voice, apparently, but was appearing in quite a number of.

[B]

Productions for reasons that I wouldn't dare.

[C]

Mention to your absolutely moral listeners.

[A]

Yes. But Meyerbeer said, no, absolutely not. I will not countenance this with a mezzo that I don't care for. And he said himself, he wrote the role for the great Pauline Viardo. She liked working with Meyer Beer.

[C]

Oh, she worked with him often, and she was fantastic.

[B]

And I have a story to tell you about her.

[C]

In one production, somebody complained about her having a protruding tooth.

[A]

A tooth?

[C]

Yeah. And it was getting in the way of her enunciation, according to the director of the opera, who insisted that she have it removed. And eventually Meyerbeer persuaded her to have it removed. She was very reluctant. Quite rightly, she thought this was a bit of a nerve. But what Meyerbeer did was he secured the tooth, had it polished up, and gave it to her as a part of a necklace.

[A]

Oh, dear. So she got her tooth back.

[C]

Toothsome.

[A]

Well, yes, she was. Pauline Viardot was feted across Europe for the quality of her singing. Her sister, her older sister, Maria Malibran, had also been a very successful singer. Very musical family from Spain. Garcia was her maiden name. Viardot was the man she married, the Frenchman she married, who was extremely supportive of her career. She's an interesting individual, 19th century artist all on her own. Maybe we can focus on her in some other show in the future.

[B]

But yes, perhaps, because the relationship that.

[C]

She had with Meyerbeer was fundamental to the success of the opera.

[B]

And it's interesting that the three. I think there were three components there.

[C]

There was the Viardot component, Meyer Beer, clearly the music, and Scribe, who wrote the libretto. And, you know, when you had teamwork in these operas, they, by and large, were successful.

[A]

Yes. Scribe is such a great name for a librettist. Playwright. Librettist. Or Eugene Scribe. But he wrote. Well, more than anyone. He wrote librettos for Daniel Aubert. But second in quantity was Meyerbeer. But he also wrote one for Verdi. He wrote some for Donizetti. I mean, he was all over the place and probably wrote more plays even than librettos. And a lot of his plays, even if he didn't write the librettos that turned them into operas. They were his stories that other librettists turned into operas.

[C]

Yes. And they weren't just off the shelf. He spent a lot of time with the composer getting it right.

[B]

And you Know, the other partnership that.

[C]

Really worked in that as well was Mozart and Da Ponte. And I can see you smiling, knowing that I was going to say that.

[B]

And I have said it.

[A]

No, actually I was thinking of Strauss and von Hofmannstahl, Hofstram style.

[B]

But do you know the most successful duo?

[A]

Dutel?

[C]

Wagner and Wagner, because they both loved each other.

[A]

They did. All right, moving on.

[C]

I said I wouldn't mention them again, but I have.

[A]

And I told you you wouldn't be able to keep that promise.

[C]

You were right.

[A]

So we have Fides here to pick up Bertha and there's some other characters who pop onto the stage.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Before we move away from Fides and Bertha though, I think there's one interesting line that, caugh my eye, Fidus sings to Bertha. You are pretty and clever for a peasant girl.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I want you to take over the inn instead of Jean, which I think gets to the heart of the relationship that there was there. They're going to run the tavern together and then she's going to take it over.

[A]

Yeah. No, the mother. She's going to be a mother in law who's very happy to have this daughter in law should the wedding take place. No spoilers in opera doesn't happen.

[C]

But. So once they've decided who's running the pub.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Bertha explains to Fidesz that she actually needs Obertal's permission to marry. Obertal is the duke who is the overlord of the place and is known as being Mr. Evil and what's more, Mr. Tachyclav. So it's going to be quite difficult. The droit des seigneur is still something that is current in this part of the world. And so Obertal is likely to be difficult.

[A]

Right. Because she's under his patronage, she needs his permission to marry.

[C]

Yes, that's right. And that's at the moment when Fides spots three sinister figures emerging onto the scene. And they are the Anabaptists.

[A]

Yes. They chant a bit in Latin.

[B]

That's one way of putting it, yes. They sing the line ad nos, ad.

[C]

Salute undam iterum veniti miseri. Come to us for salvation, you miserable swine.

[B]

So they've got an interesting way of canvassing support.

[A]

They actually do have an interesting way of gaining the support of the peasants. They say, hey, peasants, you think you're happy, you're not happy. Your overlords are brutal and mean and your life could be so much better if you followed us.

[C]

Well, welcome to the world of Anabaptist. Creepy. There's a trio of men coming along and they often sing as one. Only occasionally do they sing as individuals. But they actually are clear from the start that they're a malign influence.

[A]

They are. They were stirring up the peasants. I mean, the peasants. Let's be honest. The myth of the happy peasant is just happy.

[B]

Well, if you're a happy peasant and.

[C]

You'Re looking up at the castle that Oberthal's living in, and then these three geezers come along and say, hey, I tell you what.

[B]

We offer you the castles and towers of the rich. All this could be yours. Well, it's sort of tempting, isn't is?

[A]

Very tempting. And maybe we should get a little flavor of what these three Anabaptists, bass baritone and tenor sing. And also then how they've riled up the peasants. Because this is going to end with them literally grabbing their pitchfork, their scythes, all these implements of harvesting.

[B]

And the Anabaptists have worked them into.

[A]

A frenzy, totally worked them into a frenzy. Just ready for when Oberthal will show up. So the Anabaptists think.

[D]

Sam.

[B]

Well, so much for the happy peasants. They've been a bit wound up since the pastoral scene. Two arms, pitchforks, they're off on a mission. Yes, and it's at that moment that that Obertal appears and confronts them.

[C]

Obertal spots that one of the Anabaptists is in fact his wine servant who he has sacked.

[B]

And you know, and you really begin to wonder why the Anabaptists are resentful.

[C]

Maybe this is a man who has just been fired and is thinking of alternative employment as an Anabaptist.

[A]

Well, there are no real heroes here. Honestly. Oberthal is terrible. And the Anabaptists are problematic as well.

[C]

Well, that's right. And the guards are told to take the Anabaptists away. They put them in a corner. And then Oberthal turns to Fides and Bertha and says, ah, that's better. Because he always likes the sight of women.

[A]

Yes, he does like the sight of women. And I think it's so interesting in this first scene when Oberthal shows up, the determination of these pitchfork wielding peasants melts away. The determination just evaporates.

[C]

I mean, the Anabaptist who is identified as the wine waiter is somewhat deflated. He's corked. Sorry.

[A]

Oh no, you're not.

[C]

I'm not. I'm not at all apologetic.

[A]

No, no. So the determination of the peasants is not that strong. And the usual intimidation tactics work by the signor.

[C]

Yes, they do. Yeah.

[B]

So the moment has come when Fidesz has to take the letter to Obertal.

[C]

And explain why she is there and to get his consent for marriage.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

That is what she does next.

[A]

It is. And we get a lovely moment between these two women, between the prospective daughter in law, the prospective mother in law, talking about how much Jean Videz's son, betrothed of Bertha, how much he loves Berta.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Sam. Ram sam.

[A]

Jean loves Bertha, Berthe loves Jean and all they need now is the permission of the count to be married.

[C]

Are you surprised that he is unmoved by Berthe's plea when she sings him the letter?

[A]

I'd like to say yes, but of course I'm not. He is honestly, in this show, or at least the version I watched, he's a bit of a cartoon villain. He is a man of great power and we know that from his title and the fact that he has guards who follow him around. But of course he's a lecherous self entitled buffoon.

[C]

It can be played in a number of ways. And in the Bard Summerscape school, he is extremely menacing.

[A]

I think that's better.

[C]

He's an evil man and I think that is actually more accurate. He has to be taken seriously.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Because the threat that he poses to Bertha is absolutely fatal. And the challenge for any production company is to have the intimacy coach on full red alert when he is alone with her and he takes advantage of her. And unless you take that approach to it, the rest of the opera is inexplicable. Because at some point, as we'll find out down the road, Jean is going to assume that. That Obertal has killed Berthe.

[A]

Yeah. No. He's a man who takes what he wants. I did not see a menacing Obertal in the production that I saw. But I think he does need to be menacing because he is. His power and his position make him menacing and obviously his behavior. But he makes it 100% clear that he refuses permission.

[C]

Yes. And he says such honesty and charm. He's a hypocrite as well. So Bertha has proved to be very attractive to him and he intends to take advantage of her, which he does. And therefore he refuses to allow the marriage.

[A]

Yes. And not only that, he has his guard snatch up both women.

[C]

Both of them are taken away.

[A]

Yes. And you hear the Anabaptists with their chanting right at the end of this first act.

[C]

It's a real combination of evil. One evil is about to destroy another. It's a rather bit of a paradox.

[A]

Plenty of evil to go around. Well, act two commences, and we're in a new location not far away. We're in Leiden in that. That pub, that inn that you were talking about.

[C]

Yes, we are. And we're treated to a waltz, which is often shown with demonic characters, because this is in Jean's mind. And he is awaiting for Bertha and Fides in the inn.

[A]

And as he's waiting, there are some familiar characters who show up.

[C]

Well, guess who show up and knock on the door of the inn. Probably looking for a free drink, but Anabaptist on the make, and they think they recognize him. And they say, listen, boys, that looks like David resurrected. We can presumably make some use of him.

[A]

Yes. Apparently there was a portrait, a painting of King David from the Bible in Munster. And they say, oh, look what God has shown us.

[C]

It was a famous painting, and it was very odd that you turn up in a pub somewhere and you find that Christ is sitting there as part of the furniture.

[B]

And then Jean tells them of his.

[C]

Dreams, which he had. And the first chords are heard. Coronation March. Meyerbeer very cleverly just snucks them in there. You're going to hear all that later down the line. And the Anabaptists start to praise him.

[A]

Yes. And the peasants themselves say, he's very devout. He knows this whole Bible. And they go, oh, look at this guy.

[C]

Royal crown, people at your feet. What are you gonna do about that?

[A]

This may be the guy we need for our efforts.

[C]

You'd actually think that he won a.

[B]

Plurality of the vote at some election or other.

[C]

The praise him.

[A]

Oh, it's by acclamation, I think.

[C]

But he has seen disaster in his dream. And that's a premonition of bad things that are to come.

[A]

It's so interesting. For a long opera, this critical moment does seem to happen very, very rapidly. They say, oh, we're interested in you. And he says, I have to tell you about this disturbing dream I had. And he goes on to tell them about this. I would agree it's a disturbing dream.

[B]

There are many turning points in the.

[C]

Opera that are very quick and rapid. Oddly enough, I don't know why they don't develop the plot. They just go straight into it, particularly to the end. But we'll get to the end when we're at the end. But for this purpose, you have the strange conundrum of Jean saying, I've dreamt of a river of blood, people saying, let me be cursed, voices raised against me, and the Anabaptists say, listen boy, that means that you will reign.

[A]

Well, and he also says that he saw himself wearing a royal circle, a.

[C]

Crown, Crown of thorns, effectively.

[A]

Well, yes, it can be a crown of thorns or in the version I saw, it literally was a medieval.

[C]

In the version that I saw, it was the crown of thorns because he was Christ. Well, that was a very good production.

[A]

They are saying he's the Messiah, he's the Son of God, so that does make sense. And he's quoting the people saying, woe to you, woe upon you. And he tries to get out of this. And the Anabaptists just confirm his suspicions. No, you are special, you are chosen. You will reign.

[C]

There's nothing unusual in modern day politicians believing their advisors when they tell them that.

[A]

Well, he is disturbed by this. He's not been cagey at all about sharing his inner thoughts and his past dream. They confirm all of this. But he essentially says, ah, there's one thing I care about and it's Bertha.

[C]

He's only interested in marrying Bertha and running the pub.

[B]

He's a sort of sensible man.

[A]

Well, let's hear this lovely tenor, Jean sing about his love for his Bertha.

[C]

Sajur.

[D]

Shout.

[A]

That is a man in love.

[C]

He's in love. And the Anabaptists are on a recruitment drive. But he still favors love over being recruited to their cause. But in some of his words you can see that he's wavering. There's some attraction in this.

[A]

Of course there is. Of course there is. Well, the Anabaptists don't press their advantage here. They know that they are making headway and they briefly depart.

[C]

They leave the scene and Jean is clearly very uneasy at their sinister presence because tomorrow is his wedding day.

[A]

Right. And guess who rushes in all disheveled.

[C]

Bertha appears after the Oberthal incident and she is totally distraught.

[A]

She's escaped though. They snatched up both Fides and Berta, but Berta has escaped and she's run straight to Jean to protect her. Save me, she says.

[C]

And Obertal is not far behind.

[A]

No, he's not.

[C]

And she pleads with Jean to hide her, which he does. And Obertal comes on and says, where is Bertha? Or I will kill your mother.

[A]

When we see Oberthal here, he's going to introduce himself with this number that I find so incongruous with his character. It's this jaunty little number.

[C]

Yes, it is jaunty. He's unjaunty.

[A]

Yeah, he's there and he's.

[C]

Hello I'm going to kill your mother.

[A]

Yes, right. Because he has. He does. And he. Well, let's hear a little bit of this.

[D]

Sam ram.

[A]

Well, believe it or not, in that piece that we just heard, Oberthal has said, I will kill your mother if you don't turn Berta over to me. And we have Jean worried about his mother. You have Oberthal basically rubbing his hands in glee and anticipation, trying to menace them. You have Berta, who is not part of this scene that the other characters can see, but she's hidden from them because she doesn't want to be seen by Oberthal.

[C]

But she's around.

[A]

You can hear her singing. She's trembling with fright. Death, come and take me. I don't want to be captured. And Oberthal trying to be menacing. But again, it's a cheery little tune. And we're going to end with a furious Jean saying, how do I choose between my mother and my beloved? How do I do this?

[C]

Well, he's a man who's been put in many dilemmas, both by opertal and by the Anabaptists. And it's a real test of the strength of his character.

[A]

How's he do with that test in.

[C]

Which he fails very badly. He's all over the place. But I think that's very human.

[A]

It's very human. I don't know about you, but I gasped. When he literally goes over to Bertha's hiding place and grabs her out and throws her into the arms of this horrible man.

[C]

Well, that's when he's made the decision to save his mother rather than her. Yes, she can go hang.

[A]

Or worse.

[C]

Quite frightening.

[A]

It's very frightening. So off Bertha goes with Oberthal. Oberthal takes her and he actually keeps his word. And he returns the mother to Jean.

[C]

And Fides, when she turns up, turns out not to be the great mother to Bertha, she says, be blessed, my son. You have sacrificed your love for me. And it's a tremendous aria that she sings. It uses all the Metzar range and tricks in the book. And you can see why Meyerbeer insisted on Biodot being there to sing it.

[A]

Absolutely. Towards the end of the opera, too. Fidesz just owns the show, for sure. But here she is, she's strong and she's praising her son for saving his mother, for his love for his mother. Because she loves him, he loves her, and he's proven it in the most painful, horrifying sort of way.

[C]

Yes, everybody's prepared to look at their own interest. Somebody Else has sacrificed well, so too bad life's hard. Yeah, life is hard. And maybe Meyerbeer understood that life was hard.

[D]

Ram.

[A]

So here we have Jean being blessed by his mother for his actions, for the decision he made in the face of this tyrant, of this awful man, Oberthal. Of course he's glad he saved his mother. That was the choice he made.

[C]

But he's now fertile territory to be converted because he wants to punish Oberthal and he sees that as a way to get heaven to punish this godless man.

[A]

Yes. And he does keep referring to God in this scene. God hears me. God sends those men to me. Those Anabaptists were sent to me by God.

[C]

He says, well, if you're going to become the Son of God, it's quite a good idea to listen to the Father, I suppose. But you know. And he vows to follow the Anabaptist because it's going to get his revenge. And if he takes the crown, I could kill Obertel this very evening is what he sings.

[A]

Yes. Remember we said those guys withdrew? Well, they're back because they see the.

[B]

Moment, they know the moment, they sense the moment.

[C]

And they are about to reveal Jean as the chosen one to all the people. And there's talks of banners and hands. And he becomes more self delusional and begins to believe it himself that he is the chosen one.

[A]

Here is the first time we hear them say he is the prophet, a title of our show. But it's not just prophet. He's referred to throughout as the Son of God.

[C]

He is. And they also use the historical analogy by comparing him perhaps to be Joan of Arc. He's a Joan of Arc type figure to lead people out of problems.

[A]

Yeah, the analogy doesn't hold strong.

[C]

No, but they make it.

[A]

But they make it nevertheless, because I.

[C]

Get the impression that he's a quite impressionable young man.

[A]

Oh, my goodness, yes.

[C]

You know, bad dreams one moment and then Son of God the next. He's not a very stable character. Very dramatic.

[A]

No, he's not. And one other comparison I want to just make with the Joan of Arc that they reference here is the nationalism piece of this. Because they will talk about helping Germany, helping strengthen Germany, because after all, they want him to come to Munster with them. Which is where it's historically true. It's that period of time in the 1530s when the Anabaptists, for a time less than two years, held on to the city of Munster in Germany.

[C]

Yes. Lots of religious wars and lots of fractionated states and principalities and it was long before Germany became a nation. It wasn't even really a concept then.

[A]

No, but Joan of Arc, of course, was also very nationalistic. She was fighting for the French, for her nation.

[C]

Yeah, the British had something to do with that.

[A]

Anyway, we're not here to talk about. There are operas about Joan of Arc. Yes, there are, but not today.

[C]

Let's try one sometime. There's another point. It's the very moment when there is a plot twist. They tell Jean that he has to abandon mom and that there is much dithering if he's going to do that because he's just chosen her over Bertha. So this is a very difficult moment and he wants to see her one last time. What's interesting, he is prepared quite quickly to abandon her in the long term. But he wants to say goodbye. And he is reminded of vengeance. And there's a huge struggle between his loyalty to Mum and his thirst for vengeance against Obertal.

[A]

One of the things that Eugene Scribe did in this libretto is many occasions, hope and vengeance are mentioned close to each other. And vengeance is a strong motivation to this day. We know vengeance is a strong motivator in people, but hope is also strong. But here they are amping up his interest in vengeance and he does have to leave his mother, because if he's going to play this role, the struggle.

[C]

Is between his wish for vengeance and the loyalty to his mother. And they understand. They're putting the shreds of bamboo under his fingernails in the sensitive way of getting him to abandon her. And of course he does.

[A]

Right, because he's convinced that by abandoning her he's helping her and other people in the long run.

[C]

Well, that's always the excuse of the scoundrel, isn't it? It's all in the better.

[A]

Good it is.

[C]

So between the struggle of loyalty and vengeance, he decides on vengeance and he's taken away by the Anabaptists. And he decides it's too painful to see his mom.

[D]

Radio sam.

[A]

As.

[D]

We.

[A]

No. And now, having ended the second act.

[E]

With Jean's pitiful goodbye to his mother, which she doesn't even hear, we begin Act 3.

[C]

We're at the Anabaptist camp and there's been a battle. Peasants are calling for blood.

[B]

Drums roll.

[C]

God demands a massacre. Men are going to be hung. But the Anabaptists think that they might be good for cash.

[A]

Yes, the peasants are calling for blood. Things have gotten quite serious now and we've moved locations. We're no longer in the Netherlands. We're Just outside of Munster, Westphalia.

[C]

Getting closer to Munster, another one of.

[A]

These fantastic choral pieces. And I believe this is where I read this was the first use of electric lighting on the stage at the Paris Opera.

[C]

There were a number of firsts. There was the electrical lighting and there were roller skates in one part of it coming up, which is coming up. And the roller skates became a fashion and became an industry. It was the first time they'd appeared in a stage somewhere. They couldn't afford to get the ice put down to proper ice skaters, so they used concealed roller skates, which was really quite clever.

[A]

Right. They'd only been invented in the late 18th century, patented by a Frenchman in the early 19th century. But if you look up the history of the roller skates, which, of course I did.

[B]

Well, of course you did.

[A]

It was later that the quad roller.

[C]

Skates that we knew when I was a kid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, they were fatal.

[C]

I thought they were ridiculous, but I.

[B]

Never thought of using them in opera.

[A]

But they just basically could only go straight. They weren't maneuverable. You couldn't turn very well with them. But it was, again, this was part of the spectacle, the entertainment that these operas were provided, that they had the novelty. Something new, something. Oh, look at that. It's, you know, it's like when we go see a movie with all the special effects in a way that's coming up and it's not critical action for the story. It's going to be the peasants delivering their goods to market, but it's just to represent the ice skaters floating across the way ice skaters would.

[C]

Well, imagine being in Paris at that time in 1849, and suddenly you see peasants carrying things and skating across the stage illuminated by electric light for the first time. Of course, you'd go back. That's what it was all about.

[A]

And they did. They went back again, the ones that afford it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, anyway, let's listen to these. We've not transitioned to the happy peasants again, but we are listening to the enraged peasants. These armies calling for blood. The people in revolution.

[D]

It. Sam.

[E]

You're listening to Opera for Everyone, a radio show and podcast that embraces drama and story through love of music. Opera for Everyone airs Sundays from 9 to 11am Mountain Time on 89.1 Khol Jackson, Wyoming's only community radio station. I'm your host, Pat Wright, joined today by Gerald Malone. If you'd like to hear more conversations about opera, please join us on the Opera For Everyone podcast. And if you subscribe and rate us, you'll be Helping with our mission to bring opera to everyone by helping others find this show. Stay with us. The second half of today's show is coming right up.

[A]

Welcome back to the second half of Opera for Everyone and today's show, where we're talking about Giacomo Meyerbeer's Le Profetta. I'm your host, Pat Wright, and I'm here today with Gerald Malone, who is.

[C]

Having a fantastic time.

[A]

I'm having such a good time, and I apologize, Gerald, I didn't fully introduce you. We just launched into our conversation about Meyerbeer and all the surrounding issues. Gerald, I want everyone to know, produces a fantastic website called the Rest Is Opera. I know you have help from a cute little doggy.

[C]

Yes, I do. That's Muckle, the West Highland terrier. He writes a column of scandal and I write opera reviews. And it's a wonderful opportunity just to write for things that I see when I'm ranging across the planet, as it were.

[A]

Yes, you do get around for opera.

[C]

From Mongolia to the Met.

[A]

Mongolia, yeah.

[C]

Ulan Batar, they did the Barber of Seville, and the surtitles were in Mongolian. And it was a production from Chicago Lyric Opera, so it was a little bit odd, but they sang it very well with these wonderful Mongolian voices.

[A]

Magnificent. Well, that's the restisopera.com and in Mongolia.

[C]

It was opera for everyone.

[A]

Perfect. Opera is for everyone. And I'll tell you what, Giacomo Meyerbeer, he was wanting it to be for everyone. One of the interesting things with the new director we mentioned, there was a new director who came on board. Well, actually, this was more after the Revolution of 1830, but saw the opera as an opportunity to really see sell to the bourgeoisie. I mean, that was what was known as the bourgeois monarchy. And he even has this wonderful quote where he says, I will make the opera the Versailles of the bourgeoisie, the moneyed people who are ascendant at that period in time.

[C]

It was the end of the period of entitlement where it was court only. And Meyerbeer had a bit of a conflict because he was also a court composer. But he saw that the commerciality of this fantastic medium was something that could make him successful, and he became very wealthy out of it. It was the popular culture of its day.

[A]

Yes. And he negotiated quite shrewdly for his fees. In fact, one of the things that he really liked about working in France, as opposed to other European countries, France had copyright rules and rules about royalty that stuck. People actually got paid. For instance, our friend Rossini in Italy, it would be. He would contract with an impresario, he would be paid for his work when he did it, but the royalties, not so much unless you publish some work.

[C]

We were pre recordi days then and of course it was the invention of the copyright with Ricordi company that has made opera so profitable for so many people.

[A]

Well, that's true, that's true for Italy. But even before Ricordi came on board in France they did enforce copyright rules and certain royalties were paid. So each time Le Prophet would get played again and again and again, he got a little bit of money. I mean, we're accustomed to that idea.

[C]

But composers we think is normal. And I believe that he also would customize what was being played in France so that it came within the field of royalties and it couldn't be played elsewhere.

[D]

Right.

[A]

Oh, I should mention too, the French copyright rules only applied if it was originally performed in French. So, you know, the Italian operas that played at the Italian Theatre in Paris, they weren't covered. But it's just a little interesting. A little interesting piece. Well, before we carry on as we do in the second half, I would like to say thank you to all of the artists involved in creating this wonderful CD whose excerpts we're listening to. This was a recording made in 1976.

[C]

And Pat, you have a really good eye for the best recording of this opera that there has ever been. And a fantastic cast.

[A]

I'm flattered. I was very fortunate to find this cd. It's wonderful. The role of Fidesz is sung by the great mezzo Marilyn Horne. Jean of Leyden, James McCracken, Berta. The soprano Renata Scotto. This terrible mean Count Overthal. A bass is Jules Bastin and when.

[C]

You look at contemporary photographs of him, you can see he first class Obertel, he was typecast.

[A]

Oh, yes. And then our three Anabaptists. Zachary is sung by Jerome, Heinz, Jonas sung by Jean Dupois and Matthiason, the third Anabaptist is Christian du Plessis. The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra is the orchestra in this case under the direction of Henry Lewis. And we have a boys choir and we have the Ambrosian Opera Chorus. Just a stellar line up here.

[C]

Well, Henry Lewis was of course the first African American conductor to conduct at the Met.

[A]

Yes, he was a lot of firsts, honestly.

[C]

And he was married to Marilyn Horne until two years before this production.

[A]

Yes, they continued to work together even after their marriage ended. But he was quite an accomplished man and just broke all kinds of barriers. I'm just so grateful that we can listen to this music that they've all created here.

[C]

And I think it's interesting that it's a combination of transatlantic cooperation. Here you've got the Ambrosian Chorus, which is still on the go. They're all philharmonic orchestra, and then a largely American or foreign cast. It's superb.

[A]

Yeah, recorded in London, I should add, in 1976. Well, Gerald, it's that time.

[C]

Ah, I think it's the opera helmet quiz. I can see you looking at me.

[A]

Expectantly, so why don't you fill us in? Sum it up nice and neat with a bow. What has happened so far in our story?

[B]

All right, Pat, let's try the opera helmet for size.

[C]

Where are we?

[B]

We're in the time zone of the European religious wars of the 16th century. Place, countryside, Holland, beautiful spot. Dor Drecht, an idyl. And Germany, Munster, who's who in Dordrecht and Munster. Jean, your actual prophet, who's based on the historical John of Leiden. And his mum, who's a principal character, is Fidesz. She's a widow, an innkeeper, and she's arranged for Bertha to marry Jean. Bertha's an orphan who's been saved from drowning in the nearby river by Jean. She's been summoned by a letter from Jean telling her how much he loves her. He does not regret pulling her out the river and he wants to marry her. Then we have Count Obertal, who is the evil ruler of Dor Drecht. And he's a real baddie. Tortures political opponents, rules with a rod of iron. Current politics are very much his feel for the day. And with Don Giovanni's droit des seigneur tendencies towards young brides to be. You can see the plot building up. A trio of sinister Anabaptists, Zachary, Matthias and Mattheson, up to no good, sowing discontent. Anabaptists believe only in adult baptism for believers. But that's not all. They were also political revolutionaries. So in Act 1, we've kicked off with the front of Obertal's castle. Berthe has appeared, thrilled to marry. Jean explains to Fides, Jean's mum, that she needs the Count's permission. This is a problemo and that ain't easy. Jean gives her a ring. The Anabaptists enter, singing their creepy chorale, Ad nos ad salutarum, a wonderful Meyerbeer construction. They razzle up the interest of the local peasants in their revolutionary ideas. You'll get your castles back. That sort of thing would persuade you. Pat, I don't think you'd be that persuadable.

[E]

No.

[B]

Peasants who are naive optimists armed with pitchforks and sticks make for the castle. Obertall reads the Bertha letter, refuses Bertha's request and recognizes the Anabaptist Jonas as his former steward. Jonas nicked a couple of cases of his best coat de Meuse and shoved off. So he orders his guns to beat up the Anabaptists and arrests the two women and abuses Bertha. So we move on to Act 2, and the scene now is changed to the Fides Jean inn at Leiden. The Anabaptists enter and try to persuade Jean that he is their destined leader. And they think that because he usefully resembles a stained glass image of King David in a window in Leiden Cathedral, Jean's had an unfortunate dream. He's in a temple with people kneeling before him, the sort of dream one has every night. Folies de Grande de Moi. But he ain't for Anabaptism. He loves only Fidesz. Bertha enters, fleeing Obertal. The Count arrives and threatens to execute Jean's mother unless Bertha is returned to him. Jean is in a dilemma. In despair, he decides to hand over Bertha, saves Mum and succumbs to the lures of the Anabaptists to revenge himself on Obertal. But he doesn't let Fides know, which is fatal thing.

[E]

A problem?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Next, the camp of the Anabaptists, beginning of Act 3. The peasants are calling for the blood of rich nobles and monks who are prisoners, therefore stringing them up. But Matheson, who's a very savvy Anabaptist, wants ransom. Then they can string them up. If they ran a podcast, it would be probably spoils for everyone. Oh, it's stirring stuff, Pat. And it gets even more exciting from here on in.

[A]

It certainly does. Okay, time to transition to more story. Now, the Anabaptists are egging on the.

[E]

Crowd and they are gathering the riches of the wealthy.

[A]

And this again, is historical.

[E]

This happened, they were enforcing a sort of communal attitude towards the property in.

[A]

The town, mostly by taking it away from the wealthy.

[C]

Yes, it's like the roundups that the Nazi troops carried out in France during the course of the Second World War. You put the villagers in their spot and you demand things of them. In this case, they're after their money.

[A]

They are after the money. Exactly. And at one point they say, oh, let's go kill these terrible people. And one of them, one of the leaders, says, no, no.

[C]

Well, the crowd says, let's kill these people. And then the Anabaptists say, no, no, no, no. No, you got to be a bit more cunning than that. They'll be good for ransom. So we're not going to string them up, we're going to stitch them up.

[A]

Yeah, it's not good. It's not good. But I would like to point out that we are in Paris for this grand opera and we mentioned this skating scene, which is just about to happen as the produce is delivered. There's a full on ballet that happens here with a number of songs. We will not be listening to them, but this is our moment to see the corps de ballet in the Paris Opera.

[C]

Well, a couple of things. Paris always insisted on a ballet. You couldn't get an opera into Paris unless you did a ballet. And Verdi had to write them. Everybody had to write them if they were going to put them on the Paris stage. But what I think is very interesting about this Meyerbeer opera is that he was not past doing something that was going to catch the attention of the public. He was a very commercial man and roller skates had just been invented and he put roller skates onto the stage, made them famous, and as a result of this opera, they became a copy craze. It was a great marketing exercise.

[A]

Well, Meyerbeer was in fact great at marketing. I've even read that press conferences didn't exist the way they exist now until Meyerbeer insisted on it. He would promote his operas. He was a very clever, aware dramatist, but also he understood there was a business element.

[C]

Well, he was an impresario as much as anything else, as well as a composer. And he didn't just write a score and set aside. He made sure that all the singers were to his choice. He made sure that the marketing of it all was very sensible. He was the impresario par excellence.

[A]

Yes. And he even would pay for extra rehearsal time if he felt that was necessary. I mean, no other composer had the resources to do that. Meyerbeer did. And he took advantage of it so that he could make sure that his shows were topped up.

[C]

Do you know that he used claqueurs?

[A]

I do know. Would you explain what claqueurs are?

[C]

A claqueur is somebody that was paid to go into the audience and to clap vigorously at certain points to encourage the audience to give you a standing ovation. And it was a commercial activity.

[A]

You know, it's really funny. Not too long ago, I was in New York City and saw a Broadway show and they didn't have claqueurs, but they had. I detected it. I said, why are people Going crazy, laughing at these things, clapping for these things. And then I realized, oh, no, that's coming out of the speakers surrounding me. So just recently, in a Broadway house, essentially, they had claqueurs by piping in a laugh track and a clap track. And it made. I was stunned because I didn't think necessarily all the things were funny or fabulous. And I didn't see anyone clapping around me, but there it was.

[C]

But what is fascinating from Meyerbeer's diary is that there was a profession of claqueurs, and there were well known ones that you would go to who would then have their own claqueurs. And they would bring along a posse of about 20 or 30 people who then they knew where to station them all across the opera.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You had to have them up, down.

[C]

Side and all over the place so that it didn't appear that they were doing anything. But they were given a few hundred francs and told to get on with it. Unbelievable.

[A]

This was perfectly normal. They did it in Italy as well. This was to be expected. So that was part of the cost of putting on a successful show.

[C]

And in 1960s television live shows, you have somebody always holding up the card saying, clap.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Clackers are everywhere.

[A]

They are, yeah.

[C]

Well, I think having sold the roller skates, our audience is entitled to hear a little bit of the skating music.

[A]

We've seen our skaters, we've had our ballet over 15 minutes of dancing to rest ourselves and enjoy.

[C]

The Parisians had a huge appetite for ballet.

[A]

Well, this was entertainment and they loved it.

[C]

But sometimes in the middle of a serious opera, you wonder. It just interrupts the action. But maybe I'm just being over picky.

[A]

Well, the truth is that a lot of times these days when these operas are put on that did have big ballets, they get cut. It's just different places, different time periods, different tastes. Well, once we've rested up a little bit from the action with our ballet, we move on to the next scene of the third act. And we are with our Anabaptists. And they are concerned because the prophet Jean is refusing to come out of his tent. He's upset. And they're also concerned because the Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, is on the way to crush their rebellion. Things are not going well for them. On top of all that, Oberthal shows up, but because it's dark, because it's nighttime, he is not recognized. And they talk with him.

[C]

And also they've decided to recruit 300 people to take Munster. And they say that they've Done it with the prophet's consent. But he's in his tent, so he clearly hasn't done it. They claim that the prophet has commanded it because, spoiler alert. But it all goes badly wrong. They want to blame him, right?

[A]

He's just a tool to them. They don't believe what they're saying to him about his special status. Well, it's interesting. When Oberthal is there, we have a chance to hear them. Not just selling it to the people, not just selling it to Jean, the prophet that they want to recruit, they find this individual. He says, well, yeah, sure, I'm interested in what you're doing. And they.

[C]

This is the nearest we come to comedy in this opera. It's really very comical because Obertal it is. The arch dictators then sort of swearing allegiance to the Anabaptists, right?

[A]

And here's where they tell us, you have to respect the peasants. In other words, you can't take advantage of the peasants. That's what the aristocracy does. You cannot take advantage of an abbey or a convent. You must respect the church. If you see a baron or a marquess or a count, in other words, a member of the high aristocracy, you must hang them from the nearest tree and take their money. And you must always lead a holy life if you're going to be one of our number.

[C]

Exactly what Overtal has not done.

[A]

No. But he says in the darkness, he says he will.

[C]

There's a very. An amusing sequence where he says to everything that he's asked, I swear it, I swear it, I swear it. And is he sincere, do you think?

[A]

No, no, that was an easy one.

[C]

Well, sometimes you need an easy one.

[A]

Sometimes you do.

[C]

And then they go on to say, obertall's family will hang from the walls of Munster. And he goes along with it, grinning sheepishly. They make him swear on an enormous Bible.

[A]

And then all of a sudden they decide, gosh, it's dark in here. Let's light the lamp, shall we?

[C]

Well, what does that reveal?

[A]

Oberthal's face.

[C]

Exactly. Unmask him.

[B]

Obertal. Thief, Villain.

[A]

They recognize him. They've seen this horrible man. And we get a very interesting little piece. We're gonna play a little bit of this section where there's this trio between two of the Anabaptists and also Oberthal.

[C]

And they're all singing different things. Of course.

[A]

Of course.

[C]

A just God will destroy the Anabaptists. That's Oberthal.

[A]

Yes. He says, you are all accursed. And the Anabaptists do feel in a strong position at this moment, at this interaction, even though they are being threatened.

[B]

Next thing, Jean appears and he saves Obertal from the rope because he wants to question him. Obertal says, I deserve to die for my sins. And tells him that to save her honor, Bertha tried to drown herself. He announces, God saved Bertha from the waves. Oops.

[C]

She's been seen in Munster. So she's alive. That's the first indication that we have that she survived.

[A]

Right. This is twice now she's managed to escape his clutches, but she's been through a pretty rough time. I think it's also interesting here. Once again, Jean mentions Joan of Arc and he says, yes, but she caused heroes to be born and I'm bringing only death. He's feeling very badly about his role here.

[B]

And he then decides gratuitously, pretty much, that Bertha will decide Obital's fate.

[C]

So they've got to go and see, seek her out.

[B]

There's a snag in seeking her out in Munster that the enemy troops have.

[C]

Come from Munster and driven our men, the Anabaptist men, away.

[A]

Yes. And the soldiers are furious. They say, death to the imposter. Death to the false prophet. So they're losing faith in him.

[C]

Yeah. And they've got a tremendous chorus.

[D]

Ram.

[A]

And this is an interesting moment for Jean as a character, because you see his skill. After they scream Death to the false prophet, he evinces righteous anger and he sways the crowd.

[C]

This is the most politically cutting part of the opera, I think.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because what he says is, well, who.

[C]

Told you to go to Munster? It wasn't me. And unless I'm leading you, you know it's all going to fail. And I wasn't at your head. And that's why it is. These bad people sent you in my name. And I wasn't there.

[A]

And he prays. He prays to the Lord to help his.

[D]

Dead. Jean prays for his people.

[A]

And when. When he finishes his prayer, there's a call to action.

[B]

The crowd is swayed. He turns the tables on them completely.

[C]

And they all cry.

[B]

Jean's reign is restored. And we go on to a rousing peace which gets them off to Munster. To Munster. Jean is wielding a sword with a breastplate on.

[A]

The warrior prophet.

[C]

The warrior prophet.

[D]

That. Sa. Ra.

[A]

And now in Act 4, we are in Munster and we see the citizens of Munster. And it's a very interesting contrast. We see in the behavior of these citizens. Our chorus, when the guards are around, they sing Long live the prophet. And Then more quietly, when they are not being observed by the authorities, it's downright the prophet.

[B]

They're no fools.

[C]

They know what to do to preserve their lives.

[B]

And Jean is about to be crowned at dawn. So then fetus appears, begging for money. Help my son reach paradise.

[C]

She sometimes has a pram with her. I've seen in a couple of productions.

[B]

She's pushing a pram, so she's meant.

[C]

To have the baby in it.

[B]

Oh, so that's what she's talking about.

[C]

About her son.

[B]

Obviously a dead baby. She's deluded, which makes sense of her asking for prayers for her son.

[A]

She's a desperate woman at this point.

[B]

Well, she's become a bit of a mad old bat at this stage.

[A]

I mean, she's been through a lot. We'll cut her a little bit of slack.

[B]

Alright, I prepare to cut her slack. She's a very loyal mother. Fidesz, all of that. And she's tolerated by the townsfolk, but very, very deferentially. And then the next thing that happens.

[C]

Is a pilgrim appears on the horizon.

[B]

And it's Bertha. The plot's moving along at a cracking pace.

[A]

There's Berta. She shows up again. She has survived the waves. God has saved her.

[B]

Bertha decides to explain that she did try to drown herself to be faithful to John.

[C]

What? I mean, what's the point of that?

[A]

Well, save herself from Ubertal.

[B]

Some way of showing it. But she was taken in by a kind family and then found Fides's house and has tracked her down. She thinks they have gone to Munster, so she follows them to Munster. Key point is she's unaware that Jean is the prophet. She still thinks of him as her lover and the innkeeper.

[A]

Exactly. And she wants to find him. She's found his mother. That's a good start. And she's furious at the prophet who has caused all of this suffering.

[B]

Bertha's prayer is different. She's singing through it. May he be cursed in heaven, shining blades to be driven through the heart of the prophet.

[C]

Because she doesn't realize yet that that is John.

[A]

She doesn't realize it, but it's very sincere the way she opposes the actions of the group. That at least the head appears to be this prophet. She sees him as a tyrant who has caused death and misery, not a liberator as the Anabaptists want their followers to believe. Well, we are cooking, transitioning to the scene that honestly it is a spectacle and the scene that so many people talk about when they talk about this show. Le Prophet the coronation scene. This is scene two of act four, and it is a spectacle to behold. There's the chorus. You have the children's chorus here. This is why our recording has a boy's chorus choir in it, because you have these children singing. Everyone is celebrating this coronation of this. Well, they called him, this King of the New Jerusalem. This is Munster here. And it is a very elaborate spectacle. When Jean is crowned, he typically shows up in very simple white clothing, but he has some sort of a crown on his head.

[C]

And as one of the most memorable pieces of. Of music that was written, I think, in the 19th century.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, even Verdi praised it. And when he at one point was working with that same librettist, Eugene Scribe, he says, write me something with spectacle, something grand like Meyerbeer's coronation scene.

[B]

And it was me day. I think, Well, I mean, well, it's in the same scale there.

[A]

There is a March 2nd in this show.

[B]

Exactly that.

[A]

In just a moment or two, you think, oh, my gosh, that does sound like the triumphal margin Aida.

[D]

Sam.

[A]

Sa.

[B]

And at this moment, Jean reaches the height of self delusion and he sings the word, I am the chosen one.

[C]

No compromise there.

[B]

He's actually taken on the mantle of Christ.

[A]

He has.

[D]

Sam.

[C]

Sa.

[D]

Ra. We.

[A]

Just sleep. The feast. One of the most dramatic moments after this grand coronation scene. Downstage, Fides, this. This impoverished woman just trying to survive and begging. And she looks and she says she.

[C]

Knows who that is.

[A]

My son.

[B]

My son.

[A]

Well, this is a scandal.

[C]

Well, I was reminded of a film that I liked very much, the Life.

[B]

Of Brian, where one of the characters says, he's not the Messiah, he's just a naughty little boy.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Well, Fides thinks that he's a very naughty little boy because he has completely reduced her faith in him. This is a crisis.

[C]

If he acknowledges her, she will die.

[B]

So Jean is put in a very.

[C]

Difficult position as well.

[A]

Well, and he denies her.

[B]

Who is this woman?

[A]

And she loses it.

[B]

Yeah, who am I?

[A]

Who am I? And then he says, what does this woman want? What do I want? What do I want.

[D]

Sam?

[A]

What do I want? She is unbelieving, this faithful son that she raised, this boy, young man who favored her in spite of his love for this other woman. She cannot quite wrap her head around this.

[B]

And as all this is happening, there's.

[C]

A heated debate in the cheap seats about what's going on here.

[B]

Is he an imposter? Is Jean an imposter? Is she deluded? What's going to happen? She Wants to hold him. The crowd wants to. To kill her.

[A]

Yeah. And Jean comes up with a way to finesse this situation as well.

[B]

He does.

[C]

And what he uses is holy light and exercise a force over her.

[B]

He forces her, against her better judgment, to say that she's a liar. He offers that if he is her son, to be struck down. And the crowd is going to do that. He realizes that. That she will therefore deny him to.

[C]

Prevent him being struck down.

[A]

Right. And he's even instructed everyone who has a sword to pull it out and point it at him. So it's very real to her, the fact that if she persists in saying he is her son, he will be killed right in front of him.

[B]

And she's got a great way out of this. I mean, she could be a good politician today if she was doing a press conference, am I your son? And then she says, I don't have a son anymore. So she doesn't quite say it, but it saves him.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And Jean is clever with this because he tries to be compassionate with her, playing this role of religious leader. Oh, poor deluded woman. I'm so sorry you lost your son. But kind of lets her know this is your chance.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

So this feels like it's wrapping up, but there's one other dramatic moment here at the end of the fourth act, and that's when Fides remembers, oh, no.

[B]

Berta, she's coming to kill you.

[A]

She's coming to kill the prophet, not realizing that it's Jean. Because this is when Fides understands that the prophet is in fact Jean. But Berta doesn't know that. How am I going to fix this situation? I realize this is a long Opera, but Act 5 is finally here. There's a lot of action here. Act five opens up, and we're in the dungeon, we're in the cellar, and.

[B]

It goes like train.

[C]

Act Five.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. Of course.

[C]

It does. Great.

[A]

It is great. It's shorter, but it does barrel along. Once again, we have a quick mention that the Emperor is advancing. So they're all feeling the pressure that they're going to be put under by these great forces. And we see the true colors of the Anabaptists here because they're about to throw Jean the Prophet under the bus. And they said, we've gotten safe conduct if we just leave. So let's hand over the prophet that the advancing forces want and we will escape unharmed. The ones who started all this trouble. I mean, we saw this coming from the beginning, of course. So in this dungeon Below the palace. Fides, of course, is being helped. She's a troublemaker. They didn't kill her. But she's being held. And she prays. She prays. Not just for herself. She prays.

[C]

She wants John back. She wants John back.

[A]

She wants him back. And she doesn't.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

Well, this is a tight bond between this mother and this son. But she doesn't just want him back because she misses her son. She wants him back because she sees his. His claiming to be the prophet could in fact, damn him. And she wants him saved. She wants him to get right with God. Ra. John does come to see her when it's just the two of them alone and they are more open and honest with each other.

[C]

Well, more than that. Fides is actually compulsive. Get down on your knees.

[B]

And he complies because he is still Fides's son. And she sings. Prophet, son of God, you can deny me no longer.

[C]

You are a loathsome tyrant.

[B]

This is all pretty rough stuff. And it's a romping area where she denounces him. You are nothing to me. And he is terrified by this. And he resolves to escape the nightmare. And he wanted to avenge Berta, but, oops, Berta is not dead.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So what's it all for? Mum points out that none of them.

[C]

Would have declared themselves God.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Except him.

[A]

That's right. She doesn't let him off the hook.

[C]

No.

[A]

She says, you bought into this. You bought into this and you need redemption. And through your mother's voice, she actually says, voice, through your mother's voice, I am offering you a chance at redemption, a chance for heaven's pardon.

[C]

And she gives him an ultimatum, showing.

[B]

Joan the way forward. If you wish to be worthy of me, dump the soldiers, dump the powers.

[C]

And she then is prepared to call him son.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Sam. Ra. Sam. Breath. Sam.

[A]

In this final act here, Fides, she just. I mean, it's been a long opera. And the power that the voice brings to this role and how she holds the stage and how she dominates, she's.

[C]

The linchpin of the whole thing, because.

[B]

The plot turns around her totally. And she is able to change Jean's allegiance to the Anabaptists, to bring him back to himself, ultimately.

[A]

Yes. Well, she does decide that he is deserving forgiveness.

[B]

Yes. Bizarrely, after all this, it's all okay Aria, where they get together and they make up. God calls us both to heaven, but there's a premonition in the words in.

[C]

That area that they know where they're Going, this is not going to end well.

[A]

Well, it depends what ending well means to you. For her, it means redemption. For him, it doesn't necessarily mean going back to Leiden to live his life at the inn. That's not going to happen.

[C]

That's not going to happen.

[B]

And especially not going to happen when Berta appears. Yes, Saying that she knows that there's gunpowder in the castle and she's promising kaboom.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

She's ready to sacrifice herself in order to bring this whole mess down, to set it aflame. And some of the guards come in and start speaking with Jean, and they refer to him as Prophet.

[C]

She still doesn't recognize the fact that it's him.

[A]

No. But when they call him Prophet, I. You're this horrible man. You're this demon that needs to be killed. She doesn't. I mean, it's just incredible to her, it is unbelievable.

[C]

Indeed.

[B]

And Jean says to Fides, keep stum.

[C]

Fides persuades Bertha to give up her anger.

[B]

To put it mildly, Berta takes the.

[C]

News that he is the prophet pretty badly.

[B]

Your scepter was a weapon. And she pulls out a knife.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Jean has nothing else to live for. Let her curse be done. So Fides pleads for mercy. Powerful trio. There's a river of blood separates us forever. Bertha decides to kill herself.

[A]

However, it's the only way she sees out of it. She has killed herself. Jean remains. Fides remains. And Jean, bolstered up by his mother's pep talk, his mother's redemption, his mother's pointing him the way of truth, he says, I will punish all of you. And in the final scene of the opera, he goes up to the banqueting hall and sings a cheerful little drinking song.

[B]

Yes, they're all gathering for a big party.

[C]

Glory to the prophet.

[B]

Three Anabaptist priests plan to get him drunk and put him in chains because.

[C]

They'Re going to destroy him.

[A]

Gonna turn him over to the emperor, who is approaching. But Jean has other ideas.

[B]

Jean appears that there's nothing wrong, but.

[A]

He'S gotten this intelligence from Bertha before she killed herself, about where all the.

[C]

Explosives are stored, where the gunpowder is.

[B]

Gunpowder, treason and plot. It's like Guy Fawkes night.

[A]

Yeah, he's going to just bring it all down. And Jean, at the end of this opera, will say, you guys aren't going to succeed. I belong to God alone.

[B]

And he denounces them, ultimately, all of them. You traitors. You tyrant.

[C]

Whom I lead in my fall.

[B]

God dictated your end and I execute it. All are guilty and all are punished. And there's a sane feeling that he's almost punishing himself as well, because he understands that he and Fides are going.

[A]

To die together, right as Bertha was. They're willing to sacrifice themselves to bring this all down. And Oberthal has one little gasp where he says, ah, I'm going to be victorious. You're in my power. And Jean's like, no, you're all in my power.

[C]

They are.

[B]

And his mother actually says the words.

[C]

My son, you die as a king.

[B]

So there's vindication for him of a sort, right?

[A]

And we have Fides and Jean saying, carry our souls to heaven. To heaven. And they know it's the end. And in some ways this is a much kinder ending to Jean than what happened in history, because in fact he was captured. But here we have the great conflagration. It's a spectacle not to be believed on this stage, ending this five act grand opera.

[B]

But at least it's a more heroic.

[C]

End than simply going to be an innkeeper.

[A]

Hadn't thought of it that way. Well, Gerald, I'm so grateful to you for talking about this opera with me, for suggesting this opera, and for spending time on Opera for Everyone. Thank you so much.

[C]

Well, Pat, it's been great fun as usual, and it's wonderful to explore with you this almost unknown field of Meyer beer. And I think there are many more fields to be ploughed.

[A]

Ra. Sa.

[C]

Was.

[D]

Sam. Foreign.

[E]

Thanks for listening to this episode of Opera for Everyone. I've been your host today, Pat Wright, joined by opera critic Gerald Malone. Opera for Everyone airs every Sunday morning from 9 to 11am Mountain Time on 89.1 Khol in Jackson, Wyoming. If you've missed any of today's show, you can find this episode and many others on the Opera For Everyone podcast. And while you're there, please subscribe, rate and comment. By doing this, you'll be helping others to find us. I know opera can be unfamiliar and challenging, but everyone loves a good story, and a story set to music is even better. That's why the mission of this show is to make opera enjoyable for everyone. Opera for Everyone.