Gloria Steinem: Letting the Road Take You

Summary

Podcast Summary: Oprah’s Super Soul

Episode: Gloria Steinem — Letting the Road Take You

Host: Oprah Winfrey
Guest: Gloria Steinem
Date: June 17, 2026

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Main Theme

This episode features a profound, inspiring conversation between Oprah Winfrey and feminist icon Gloria Steinem. They explore what it means to live with openness, the power of hope, the importance of being “on the road” literally and metaphorically, and the intertwined roots of sexism and racism. Steinem reflects on her life’s journey, shares stories from her book My Life on the Road, discusses how her upbringing shaped her worldview, and imparts hard-earned wisdom about activism, spirituality, and living with purpose.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Duality of Progress and Challenge (03:00–06:09)

• Reflecting on Women’s Progress:
  • Oprah acknowledges Steinem’s trailblazing role and the transformation in women's rights over the past five decades.
  • Steinem admits she is “mad every day” about what remains undone but emphasizes the communal nature of the movement.
• On Being a ‘Hopeaholic’:
  • Steinem credits her optimistic worldview to a loving upbringing and underscores the necessity of hope:
    • "If you don't have hope, you're defeated before you start. I mean, hope is a form of planning.” (05:45)

2. Age, Mortality, and Loving Life (06:10–08:10)

• Coping with Aging:
  • Steinem discusses the oddity and disbelief she feels at being 81, and the transitions in identity as age advances.
• On Loving One’s Life:
  • She cherishes moments of connection and seeing how the movement’s work has changed lives:
    • “Those moments when... you suddenly feel at one with everything, you feel boundaryless…” (07:34)

3. Lessons from the Road and Shattering Stereotypes (10:29–12:33)

• ‘Purple Motorcycle’ Story:
  • Steinem recounts meeting a ‘motorcycle wife’ in South Dakota who shattered her preconceptions, illustrating how easily we stereotype others:
    • "We all have a purple motorcycle inside." (11:38)
  • Oprah shares a “pickup truck moment” of her own, echoing this theme.

4. The ‘On the Road’ State of Mind (13:13–15:57)

• Transformational Encounters:
  • Steinem’s accidental journey into public speaking and organizing helped her realize the unique power of in-person connection:
    • "The hormones that allow us to empathize are only produced when we're together in all five senses." (14:20)
  • She describes living “in the present” on the road as a kind of meditation.
• Openness as a Lifestyle:
  • Being “on the road” is a mentality available to everyone—listening and being open in daily life, not just through travel.

5. Circles, Community, and Movement-Building (15:57–17:28)

• Learning from India:
  • Inspired by time spent in Indian villages, Steinem champions the practice of listening in circles:
    • “If you want people to listen to you, you have to listen to them… Everyone has a story.” (16:07)
  • Oprah stresses that true principles are universally applicable.

6. The Myth of ‘Settling Down’ and Finding One’s Own Way (17:46–19:17)

• Personal Evolution:
  • Steinem reflects on her childhood in a house trailer and her resistance, then embrace, of a roaming lifestyle:
    • “My discovery is really that we all need both (home and journey).” (18:34)
  • Oprah pulls a memorable quote from Steinem’s introductory chapter, comparing travel’s vitality to “truly mutual sex.”

7. Mother’s Influence and Living Unlived Lives (19:38–22:34)

• On Her Mother’s Struggles:
  • Steinem discusses her mother’s thwarted career and dreams, realizing she’s “living out her mother’s unlived life.”
  • She acknowledges the generational and social forces that shape women’s lives.
  • A poignant regret: "But then you would have been born. But I couldn't say it because it couldn't happen." (21:54)

8. Spirituality vs. Religion (22:43–23:51)

• Defining Spirituality:
  • Steinem differentiates spirituality (oneness, godliness in all living things) from religion (“politics in the sky”).
    • “Even Jesus is blonde and blue eyed in the middle of the Middle East. God is a guy… Spirituality is in everything, in all living things.” (22:58)
  • Shares a humorous anecdote about identifying as “pagan” on a hospital form.

9. The Global State of Women's Rights (24:07–25:08)

• Violence Against Women:
  • Steinem discusses the global impact of gender violence, referencing Jimmy Carter's activism.
  • Cites modern phenomena: son surplus in India and China, FGM, child marriage, and the overlooked problem of domestic violence in the US.

10. The Roots of Sexism and Racism (28:07–29:06)

• Origins in Control:
  • Steinem links sexism to control over reproduction and connects the roots of racism and sexism as intertwined:
    • “If we didn’t have wombs, we’d be fine, if you know what I mean.” (28:14)
    • Advocates for “uprooting both at the same time.”

11. Positive Reinforcement and Community Wisdom (29:09–30:22)

• Learning from Other Cultures:
  • Steinem shares a Ghanaian cultural practice of reintegrating and affirming those who have done wrong, contrasting it with punitive Western norms.

12. Personal Credo and Openness (31:36–32:32)

• Steinem’s ‘Creeds’:
  • "The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off." (32:00)
  • She values the balancing act between uniqueness and common humanity.

13. Ongoing Inspiration, Feminism’s Future (33:00–34:21)

• Living in the Future:
  • Steinem remains frustrated by stagnation in reproductive rights and inspired by “the little things”—from ten-year-old girls playing football to young women leading new liberation movements.
  • She celebrates everyday evidence of progress, like women directing street traffic.

14. Advice and Final Reflections (34:39–35:41)

• Advice to Younger Self:
  • “Do more of what you can uniquely do and less of what other people can do.” (34:45)
  • On what she’s most proud of: “I haven’t done it yet.” (35:08)
• On God:
  • “God is living energy. Everything that has living energy is part of God.” (35:28)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hope:
  • “Hope is a form of planning.” — Gloria Steinem (05:45)
• On Empathy:
  • “The hormones that allow us to empathize with each other are only produced when we’re together in all five senses.” — Gloria Steinem (14:20)
• On Stereotypes:
  • “We all have a purple motorcycle inside.” — Gloria Steinem (11:38)
• On Oppression:
  • “If we didn’t have wombs, we’d be fine, if you know what I mean.” – Gloria Steinem (28:14)
• On Truth:
  • “The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.” — Gloria Steinem (32:00)
• On God & Spirituality:
  • “God is living energy. Everything that has living energy is part of God.” — Gloria Steinem (35:28)

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Essential Timestamps for Deep Dives

• Iconic Introduction & Role of Hope: 03:00–06:09
• On Age and Living Fully: 06:10–08:10
• The Purple Motorcycle — Stereotypes: 10:29–12:33
• Living on the Road: 13:13–15:57
• Circle Wisdom from India: 15:57–17:28
• Women’s Movement and Social Change: 24:07–25:08
• Roots of Sexism & Racism: 28:07–29:06
• Personal Endnotes & God as Energy: 34:39–35:41

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Tone & Closing Thoughts

Warm, thoughtful, and occasionally witty, the episode flows as a mutual meditation on meaning, activism, and how personal experience fuels social change. Steinem’s wisdom and optimism ground the conversation, while Oprah’s probing empathy and gratitude create a generous, hopeful space. For listeners seeking inspiration, practical philosophy, or a reminder of interconnectedness, this episode offers a tapestry of uplifting, clarifying, and profoundly human insights.

Transcript

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[Oprah Winfrey]

hey there podcast listeners. I have exciting news. We're launching a brand new podcast in addition to Super Soul Conversations. It's called Oprah's Masterclass. The Masterclass podcast allows you to hear the greatest life lessons from some of the most respected and renowned actors, musicians, public figures and actors athletes in their own words. Listen as Jay Z, Justin Timberlake, Ellen DeGeneres, Shaquille O', Neal, Reba McEntire, Dwayne Johnson and Jane Fonda, just to name a few, share what they've learned about life and their own insights into their personal stories and challenges. I believe that there's something to be learned from every experience and everyone can use their life as a class. Oprah's Masterclass podcast is available now on Apple Podcasts, so subscribe now and listen free. Go to applepodcasts.com oprahsmasterclass I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time. Taking time to be more fully present your journey to become more inspired and connected to to the deeper world around us starts right now. In 1968, women's liberation was just taking its foothold in the United States. Gloria Steinem first gained national attention in 1963 after writing an expose about her experience going undercover as a Playboy Bunny. In 1972, Gloria Co founded the now iconic Ms. Magazine, focused on the empowerment of women. Now, five decades later, she's a Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient. And Harper's Bazaar called Gloria Steinem one of the most daring women of both the 20th and 21st centuries. Gloria Steinem continues to travel the world to fight for the rights of women. And though the battle is ongoing, at 81, she's as open hearted as she is wise. Eternally hopeful about the future. I know you are a role model for so many people, including myself. A visionary, an icon. You're all of that. And of course, a hero to millions of women. You know, my producer and I were saying this morning, I said we should all wake up every morning, say thank you, God, thank you, Gloria Steinem and all the leaders of the women's movement. Because I think so often we forget where we were 50 years ago. Can you believe how far we've come? And yet how far.

[Gloria Steinem]

Oh, I'm mad every day about where we have to go naturally, really. Right. And I don't, you know, we get to be icons to each other because we see each other in the media. And in some ways what we see in the media seems more real than

[Oprah Winfrey]

we are, you know, but, but the media amplifies everything.

[Gloria Steinem]

But we're, we're all in this together. Yes, but it's, it's a movement, it's a group. It's a group. It has to be a group.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But you say the, you know, icon, visionary, hero that the word hopeaholic actually describes you best. What do you mean by that?

[Gloria Steinem]

Well, I think that one of the most fundamental differences between people is whether they see the world as basically friendly or basically unfriendly. And I think that probably comes from the way we're brought up. You know, were we lucky enough to be loved and valued when we were children and to see a friendly world, which I was.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Gloria Steinem]

And I'm grateful for that. And so actually you describe it in

[Oprah Winfrey]

this book, My Life on the Road as the lens in which we choose to see whether life becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Right. The lens that we choose to look through makes it a self fulfilling prophecy. It does, doesn't it?

[Gloria Steinem]

It does.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I actually agreed with you and I actually underlined that in my book because it's actually also How I see the world, too, is the biggest question is, is it for me or against me?

[Gloria Steinem]

Right, right. And it isn't as if it's blind optimism. It's important to be skeptical because otherwise we don't use our energies very well. But if you don't have hope, you're defeated before you start. I mean, hope is a form of planning. So it's important that we have that because we have to be conscious of the possibility of change in order to pursue it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So at 81 years old, you're working tirelessly to.

[Gloria Steinem]

Yes, well, you have to know, I'm so grateful you just said I'm 81 years old because I'm trying to convince myself that you are. I tell people on the street that I'm 81.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you tell them why? Because.

[Gloria Steinem]

Because I don't believe it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You don't believe it.

[Gloria Steinem]

Right, right, right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, I remember turning 60 and being hit with that number in a way that I hadn't been hit with any numbers before. Like, whoa. So 60, when did that moment happen for you?

[Gloria Steinem]

Well, it's interesting you say 60 because that was. Well, 50 for me was the. Was hard because it was the end of the central years of life, the gendered years of life, in a way, you know, from 13 to 50. Yeah, but 60 was great because it was beyond the kind of feminine prison you could be your own self. Right. And 70 was somewhat like that, too. But 80 is about mortality. You know, I mean, I have to understand that even though I'm going to live to 100, in my opinion, that's only 19 years, but there's just so much I want to do. And also I love it here. You know, what makes it hard to imagine leaving is not the hard parts. It's the parts you love.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And what has loved you and you have loved the most about it.

[Gloria Steinem]

Well, I think those moments when for no reason really, you suddenly feel at one with everything, you feel boundaryless. And also, if I just meet somebody in the supermarket or on the street and they tell me how a social justice, something, the women's movement, something has changed their lives, and you get a sense of a story that's a different story because of something we contributed to that's, you know, infinitely, infinitely rewarding.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Every Home well, I love the story in Life on the Road where you tell about the Purple Motorcycle series.

[Gloria Steinem]

Oh, in South Dakota.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, South Dakota set that up for us.

[Gloria Steinem]

Yeah, well I was going to a powwow actually with our friend Alice Walker and others. We were all meeting there and once we were at the airport in Rapid City we saw all these motorcycles. We couldn't understand why and they had been on the plane too. Guys in chains and you know, studded jackets. And so we realized it was some kind of motorcycle rally and a waitress told us that and we were afraid of the motorcyclists, I have to say, as a group of women, because everything that we'd seen in the press and in movies was about motorcyclists as, you know, treating women as possessions, being dangerous in various ways. So I was sitting in the little dining room of the motel where we were and full of motorcyclists, and I was trying to be cool and also open minded.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And open minded.

[Gloria Steinem]

Right, right. And one of the motorcycle wives, she came over and she said, I just want to tell you, I really enjoy Ms. Magazine. Yes, right. I couldn't believe it. And then she said, isn't that woman with you? Isn't that Alice Walker? I really like her poetry. I mean, you know, it just teaches you so much about stereotypes. Yes, but then she also said, now look out the window and you see that purple motorcycle out there in the parking lot? Said, that's mine. Now, she had her own motorcycle. She used to ride on the back of her husband's. It had Ms. On the license plate. Oh, my goodness. And she said, you should see my grandkids when grandma drives up in her purple motorcycle. It was. It was just wonderful. And so my conclusion is that we all have a purple motorcycle inside.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And what that story shows us is that we all make prejudgments about people in our lives. I was telling you that when I read that story, it reminded me of the time of running on a road in Indiana and being approached by this pickup truck. And the pickup truck had a Confederate flag in the back. So naturally I was like, no. And I'm out here by myself and why did I come by myself? And what am I going to do? The guy pulls over and he's slowing down to tell me that he loves watching the Oprah show with his wife. It's just one of those pickup truck moments. One of those purple motorcycle moments.

[Gloria Steinem]

Right, right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

The pursuit of change has taken Gloria to virtually every corner of the earth. She lives in what she calls an open road state of mind, leaving herself open to encounters and experiences that inform her life's work. My Life on the Road is Gloria's first book in 20 years. So what has your Life on the Road? I mean, reading this, you've lived more time on the road than off, I think.

[Gloria Steinem]

Really? Yeah, I think so.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. So it feels like that being on the road is a way of being with you. It has become a part of who you are, being out there on the road. And not just on the road, but your on the road state of mind.

[Gloria Steinem]

Can you tell me about that. It didn't happen on purpose. Like so much in life, it happened accidentally because I couldn't get published. What I wanted to say about the women's movement when it was new and exploding. And so I ended up going out with a friend on the road to speak. And that led to, you know, years of on the road organizing. And I discovered, as I never otherwise would have, I think, that what happens in a room when you are present cannot happen on the printed page or on the screen. It's really true that the hormones that allow us to empathize with each other are only produced when we're together in all five senses. It isn't to devalue the page or the screen, but it's just different. And I guess I discovered my form of meditation. I mean, I've taken two meditation courses. I believe in it, but I don't do it. But what the road does is force you to live in the present in that way. There's just an infinite amount of learning, and it's in the moment. It forces you to live in the moment.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And what is clear in your life on the road is that it doesn't mean we all have to go to South Dakota or we have to travel to India. It means in your everyday experiences, whether you're in the supermarket or whether you're going to the dry cleaners, it's being able to listen with that kind of openness to.

[Gloria Steinem]

Yeah, it's an on the road state of mind.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Gloria Steinem]

And it's. I can only compare it to, you know, when you see birds riding a current. It's like that. Or a surfer riding the waves, or it's just being open.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It means being in the flow.

[Gloria Steinem]

Just being open.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Gloria Steinem]

And if you are in a place where you're more powerful than the people around you, being sure to listen as much as you talk. And if you're less powerful, being sure to talk as much as you listen.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And your adventures led you actually, in the beginning, from that first trip to India, to understand that we communicate in circles. Can you talk about that?

[Gloria Steinem]

Well, I did. I learned that in India by good luck, by accident, was walking through Indian villages with a Gandhian group trying to get a message of we care about you, to an area that had. Where there had been riots. So we were just traveling by foot and being fed by the villagers and so on. And every night we would sit around a kerosene lamp and the villagers would tell terrible stories of what was happening. But by the end of a few hours, the very fact that they could talk to each other, that they weren't alone in experiencing this would begin to transform the group. And the Gandhians were saying to me, it's just very simple rules. You know, if you want people to listen to you, you have to listen to them. If you want to know how people live, you have to go where they live. You know, everyone has a story. You have to listen to each other's stories and sit in a circle. And every movement that we care about, you know, I mean, the civil rights movement came out of churches in the South. People.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's right.

[Gloria Steinem]

Testifying and telling their stories. And the women's movement, women sitting in circles. You know, we are communal people. But it took me a while to realize that what I had learned in India had any application in the rest of my life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, in order for truth to be truth, it applies to all things. Really. It does.

[Gloria Steinem]

Remember that. That's a very.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's what I've figured out in all of my interviews. For it to be truthful, it has

[Gloria Steinem]

to apply to all things.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It applies to everything.

[Gloria Steinem]

It took me a decade. I should have met you earlier.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So you say that you always believed at some point that you would stop and settle down. And then you experience what happened.

[Gloria Steinem]

Well, I think I got rid of the myth, you know, that we're supposed to grow up and settle down. Those two things go together. And also, since I in my childhood had lived in a house trailer with my parents most of each year as we voyaged from Michigan to Florida or California. And my father was kind of buying and selling antiques along the way. And I, of course, wanted to be like other kids. I wanted to go to school like other kids. Right. So I thought I was rebelling against a traveling way of life, but really what was happening was I was finding my own.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's right.

[Gloria Steinem]

And also something my father ever did, which is making a home.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Gloria Steinem]

So my discovery is really that we all need both.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think you say this in the introduction, taking to the road, by which I mean letting the road take me, changed who I thought I was. The road is messy, leads us out of denial and into reality. Out of theory and into practice, out of caution and into action, out of our heads and into our hearts. Now this is what got me. It's right up there with life threatening emergencies and truly mutual sex as a way of being fully alive in the present. I said, gloria is comparing the joy of travel with the joy of sex. You really have found a secret. Oh, my goodness. Traveling is like sex, really.

[Gloria Steinem]

Not all the time.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Not all the time.

[Gloria Steinem]

Like, sex is not that way all the time. Correct, correct. But it is about spontaneity. I mean, it takes you out of yourself. You find yourself in a completely different world, you know, in a roadhouse and it's snowing, and there's somehow a guy there who's a tango teacher. And you find yourself, I mean, tangoing to the. I mean, boy.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You have had some adventures. You have had some adventures, right? Gloria Steinem was 10 years old when her parents divorced. With her sister already in college, she became the sole caregiver to her mother. Gloria writes that her mother, Ruth, suffered from depression, anxiety and delusions, issues Gloria believes stemmed from a broken spirit and a life unlived. When she was 26, she moved to New York City on her own to pursue a career in writing, a dream her mother once pursued for herself. Have you thought about, really, how your mother's struggles influenced your work in the feminist struggle?

[Gloria Steinem]

Yeah, that also took me a while. You know, I think we spend a lot of time saying, I'm not going to be anything like my mother before we realize that it's not an individual fault, it's a collective fate. And so I, too, went through that period of time. But I do realize, looking back that, I mean, my mother was a pioneer journalist before I was born. I didn't even know that until much later. She gave up everything. Not because my father forced her to, but if that was the way the world ran. She had what was then called a nervous breakdown. But, I mean, she was really institutionalized for a couple of years, and then just to survive, you know, became her goal. And she was, you know, wonderful, smart, loving person. But I began to realize that actually I was living out her unlived life. And I think a lot of women, hopefully that will pass because women will be able to live out their own lives. But it's still true, I think, for a lot of us. And it made me understand that my mother had no journey of her own. My father had no home of his own. And we all need both.

[Oprah Winfrey]

We all need both. I appreciated that your mother once told you that if she had left your father, you would have never been born. And I read that you never found

[Gloria Steinem]

the courage to say to her what

[Oprah Winfrey]

you really wanted to say to her about that.

[Gloria Steinem]

Yeah, no, that's true. I mean, she. Because I would, of course, be saying to her, because she had told me that she fell in love with someone else in the newspaper office and she wanted to go to New York. And I was saying but why didn't you marry this other guy, go to New York with your girlfriend, you know, and then she would say, but then he never would have been born. And I so wanted to say to her, but then you would have been born. But I couldn't say it because it couldn't happen. If there had been a chance of it happening still, you would have said it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

To have said it would just seem cruel to say, well, you didn't have the life.

[Gloria Steinem]

I couldn't say it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Right, yeah. So has the travel and the experiences with people, has that been your spiritual path?

[Gloria Steinem]

Yes, I think so. Because of the living in the moment, communicating with other people part of it, which I think is a spiritual experience.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Gloria Steinem]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And what's the difference between religion and spirituality for you?

[Gloria Steinem]

Oh, huge. Religion is politics in the sky mostly. I mean, God looks like the ruling class a suspicious amount of time. Even Jesus is blonde and blue eyed in the middle of the Middle East. God is a guy. God is a. You know, spirituality is in everything, in all, in all living things. You know, I had to go to have a minor medical something in a hospital just for a few hours. But they make you fill out a little form including religion. So first I was going to put none, but then I thought it was a little negative, so I put pagan.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Pagan?

[Gloria Steinem]

Yeah. So the nurse said to me, what does pagan mean? I said, it just means you believe there's godliness in all living things. I converted around the spot.

[Ashley from OWN]

Really?

[Gloria Steinem]

Yes. I mean, I think we're natural pagans. And when we see now the political uses of religion. Religion is politics we're not supposed to talk about. And we have to talk about it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I spoke with former president Jimmy Carter recently, sitting right in that chair. And one of the things he said was that ending violence actually against women around the world has been a part of his life's mission. And now for the first time in the world, there are more males than females as a result of violence against women in the world.

[Gloria Steinem]

Yes, it is the first that we're aware of and it's because of the preference for sons. Now there's a son surplus and a daughter deficit in much of India and China. It's because of female genital mutilation, which he, Jimmy Carter, you know, he sat on television on David Letterman and talked about female genital mutilation. I thought, thank you. I know they never would have let me do that. Yeah, right, right. He's been wonderful about it. Child marriage and domestic violence in the United States, which is huge. But we talk about foreign terrorism, but not about domestic terrorism.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What is that about us as human beings? That.

[Gloria Steinem]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Obviously, foreign terrorism is a concern. Obviously, you know, attacks on our beliefs, but right in our midst, where you see it happening every day, what is that about us? We're able to overlook that.

[Gloria Steinem]

Well, I think it's. That we confuse it with culture. We think it's inevitable. Somehow we assume that the masculine controls the feminine. Of course, there is no masculine and feminine. There's human. But we set a pattern that said it's okay for one group to control

[Oprah Winfrey]

another and dominate another.

[Gloria Steinem]

Who lived intimately on this land where we are before Europeans showed up, were one of 500 or so native nations whose paradigm of life. Very sophisticated, very sophisticated cultures whose paradigm of life was a circle, not a pyramid. So people were linked. We were not ranked like this. And if we start ranking each other in the family, we think it's natural. We think it's culture. We think there's no other way. And there is another way. The old languages, most of the ones I know, don't even have gendered pronouns. They don't have he and she. They don't have a concept of race. They don't have a word for nature. Because we're not separate from.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because it's all one.

[Gloria Steinem]

Right? It's all one.

[Oprah Winfrey]

When the statues are erected to you, what will the inscription say? What do you want it to say about your contribution?

[Gloria Steinem]

The closest I'll just answer, because I can't imagine that. Okay, so the closest I can come to it is that a bunch of my women friends, wonderful human beings who, on my 80th birthday, we all went elephant riding.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes, I know.

[Gloria Steinem]

Botswana. Yeah, right. They gave me the most wonderful present, which is a wooden bench. Not like the metal kind, but a beautiful wooden bench in Central Park. And on the back is a plaque, and it says, to Gloria steinem on her 80th birthday. And something about the women's movement. And then it says, and to her hero, Sojourner Truth, who said, mine, too. Unless all of us are free, none of us is free. So we just. I love that because I'm not there by myself. I don't want to be on a statue by myself. I want people to know what I've learned, which is that change starts from the bottom, not the top. It's like a tree. And we have to stay connected to each other. So I'm happy that I'm there, connected across distance with Sojourner.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you say, we've got to learn that we're more linked and that there's less ranking but more linking. So what do you believe is the root of sexism?

[Gloria Steinem]

Controlling reproduction. To try to control reproduction. If we didn't have wombs, we'd be fine, if you know what I mean. And it's doubly important when there's a lot of racism because if you're going to perpetuate racial separation, you have to control reproduction even more so.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And the root of racism, you think?

[Gloria Steinem]

Well, I think anthropologically speaking, it is seeing difference in your family, seeing a dominant and a passive role, seeing cheap labor, seeing unpaid, and then turning other people into it outside the family. If you can own a woman as the means of production, you can own a slave as a laborer. It's not about. You know, I know that the academic word is intersection, which is a very good word, but I think intertwined is an even more graphic way of saying that racism and sexism can only be uprooted at the same time.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What's important to you now?

[Gloria Steinem]

You don't ask small questions.

[Ashley from OWN]

It's super Soul Sunday.

[Oprah Winfrey]

These are big questions. What's important to you now?

[Gloria Steinem]

Well, actually, the first thing that came into my head when you said that is that Wilma Mankiller, who was the chief of the Cherokee Nation and a dear friend and an amazing woman, she and I were, before she died, writing a book, trying to write a book about original cultures around the world and what very simple, practical things we can learn.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Gloria Steinem]

And each thing was a chapter. For instance, in a culture in Ghana, when someone does something antisocial and destructive, that person is indeed punished with isolation. But when that person is brought back into the group, there is a long ritual amount of time in which everyone who knows that person tells them every good thing they ever did. We could do that. But we do the opposite with prisoners. The opposite. They can't vote. They can't work. I think we understand it a bit better with children. Positive reinforcement, but we could do that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

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[Paige from Giggly Squad]

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[Oprah Winfrey]

What is the truth that you use that embraces your daily life? Meaning, what is your creed?

[Gloria Steinem]

I don't know if I have a creed exactly. I mean, I have a series of creeds, I guess. You know, like, the truth will set you free, but first of all, piss you off.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're very famous for that one, right?

[Gloria Steinem]

I don't know. I mean, I just. Right, right. I guess it's just being open, you know, you just never know.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Is that the quality you admire most in others?

[Gloria Steinem]

Yeah, I think so. Being centered, it's not one thing or the other. I think it's a balance between qualities. That's the important thing. And each of us is unique and each of us is human. So it's a balance between uniqueness and my story. And your story.

[Oprah Winfrey]

When I ask you, when I was saying at the beginning of our conversation here, you must wake up on some days and just think, wow, life is so much different now than it was. So many things have changed for women. I've said to you many times before, I certainly wouldn't be able to hold the seat and the space that I do in the culture had it not been for you and so many other women of the movement. But you said you think about all the. So many things that still need to change.

[Gloria Steinem]

Yeah, I live in the future.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You live in the future. So what still pisses you off?

[Gloria Steinem]

How long do we have? Well, what pisses me off in a very fundamental way is that reproductive freedom is not a basic human right, like freedom of speech, freedom of worship, so on. Because we each get to. I mean, the power of the government needs to stop at our skins. Male or female. You know, there's a boundary here.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. What still inspires you? What inspires you?

[Gloria Steinem]

Just the little things inspire me, you know, the 10 year old girl who's playing football and she's littler the boys than the boys, but she's actually better than a lot of the boys and she just keeps playing, you know? Right. And that women have started, young women really have started a major part of the black liberation movement now and are very clear about it and talk about it as a sisterhood. You know, I mean, it's for men and women, but they talk about themselves as a sisterhood.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What other things do you look at and you marvel where you see women in positions and spaces that couldn't have been possible without the women's movement.

[Gloria Steinem]

I see women directing traffic in New York and doing it very well and ordering everybody around and blowing their whistle and then saying to me as I cross the street, give him hell, honey. I love that. I love that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What would you say to your younger self? What would you say that sister girl there?

[Gloria Steinem]

I would say do more of what you can uniquely do and less of what other people can do.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's good advice for anybody.

[Gloria Steinem]

And also we're more likely to do what we care about if we say to ourselves, can I uniquely do this?

[Oprah Winfrey]

And what are you most proud of for yourself?

[Gloria Steinem]

I haven't done it yet.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You haven't done it yet.

[Ashley from OWN]

Okay.

[Gloria Steinem]

I don't know.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I get that.

[Gloria Steinem]

Yeah, right. Because, I mean, I can think of lots of things I'm proud of. But I do live in the future and I do have so many more hopes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And what is God for you?

[Gloria Steinem]

Mm. God is living energy. Everything that has living energy is part of God.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's good.

[Gloria Steinem]

Whoa.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm gonna be using that. God is living energy. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe. Rate and review this podcast. Join me next week for another Super Soul conversation. Thank you for listening.

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[Paige from Giggly Squad]

Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad and I want to let you know that if you want the newest and hottest beauty products, you have to go to Sephora. I'm obsessed with the one size liquid blotting paper spray. It's the first of its kind. Blotting spray that mattifies for up to eight hours. It's unreal. There's also the Summer Friday shade drops SPF 50, which basically lives in my bag at this point. Oh, and the Kayali Eden Plush Pear smells so good. It's sweet, warm and addictive. Like people literally stop me and ask what perfume I'm wearing, which, you know I love. So if you want the makeup, skincare, hair and fragrance products everyone's about to be obsessed with, shop only at Sephora.