Mitch Landrieu, Part 2: A White Southerner Confronts History

Summary

Oprah’s Super Soul: Mitch Landrieu, Part 2 – A White Southerner Confronts History (June 10, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this deeply reflective episode, Oprah Winfrey continues her candid conversation with Mitch Landrieu, former Mayor of New Orleans and author of In the Shadow of Statues: A White Southerner Confronts History. The dialogue dives into Landrieu’s personal journey through race, legacy, and leadership in the American South, focusing on the emotional, political, and social challenges of removing Confederate monuments. Both Oprah and Landrieu explore themes of identity, courage, and the ongoing national struggle to face difficult truths about America’s past.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Growing Up White in the South: Early Encounters with Racism

• Experiencing Ostracism: Mitch recounts being called a “nigger lover” at school because his family supported integration, and reflects on whether these experiences changed his perspective on his white or Black friends.
  • “I kind of thought, well, those guys are just white racist people. And not all white people are racist. Some of them are. All white people are not the same at all.” (Mitch, 03:21)
• Neighborhood Realities: Landrieu shares how he saw his neighborhood as simply “mixed” and was surprised later to learn some white friends avoided it, viewing it as a “Black neighborhood.”
  • “I lived in a really wonderful mixed neighborhood. But their definition... was different from mine.” (Mitch, 04:25)
• First Personal Experience of Racial Hostility: He describes, for the first time in college, being the target of a racially charged insult from a Black student, which startled him and made him realize the complexity and pain of racial identity across all backgrounds.
  • “He stood over me and in an angry, really vicious tone, said, you're a blond haired, blue eyed devil…” (Mitch, 06:08)

2. History, Remembrance, and the Moral Imperative

• Transformative Visit to Auschwitz: Both reflect on how visiting Auschwitz profoundly impacted their sense of moral responsibility and the universality of human suffering and evil.
  • Oprah: “For you, just like for me… you come out of it more determined to fight for justice in your own way than ever before.” (06:50)
  • Mitch: “...I thought about slavery in the United States of America. And then… why did you do it? Because this sense of denial, it didn’t happen. It wasn’t that bad. It was about economics.” (07:10)
• Why Remove the Monuments? Landrieu connects the symbolism of Confederate monuments to larger issues of white supremacy and national denial, describing the sense of urgency he felt after events like the Charleston church shooting.
  • “Those monuments, in my opinion, helped facilitate this sense that it was okay to have these public statements of reverence for this superiority. And I said, that's not who New Orleans is.” (09:06)
  • “I had made a vow to myself years ago in Auschwitz that if ever you were confronted with a moment of evil… you would want to be able to stand up.” (Oprah, 09:06)

3. The Battle to Remove the Statues

• Challenging Institutional Racism: Even with legal, executive, and public support, the practical removal of statues was fraught with threats, sabotage, and fears for personal safety.
  • “I literally picked up the phone and called every contractor … trying to find a crane. A crane? A crane. Just a crane, and then a crane.” (Mitch, 10:44)
  • “They began to engage in what I consider to be domestic terrorism... firebombed his car in the second decade of the 21st century.” (Mitch, 10:44)
• Costs and Security: Physical, security, and financial costs escalated as operators wore bulletproof vests and worked under cover of darkness.
  • “We took ...the advice of the highest levels of security.” (Mitch, 13:07)
  • “They were actually [sending] drones… filled up the gas tank with sand. I mean, they were sabotaging what was legally government sanctioned.” (Mitch, 13:21)

4. Leadership and the Price of Doing What’s Right

• Psychological Toll and Real Dangers: Landrieu admits fear for his team and recounts the hateful threats directed even at family and staff.
• Lost Support and Political Fallout: The decision cost him two-thirds of his white political support, illustrating the deep divisions such actions can cause—even among progressives.
  • Oprah: “You lost a lot of white support.” (24:50)
  • Mitch: “I lost two thirds of my white support... [They said] That issue will cause me not to vote for you again.” (24:51)
• A Defining Moment: The act of removal became a symbol for righting historic wrongs and advancing the principle that “out of many, we are one.”
  • “There are very few times in your life, certainly in public life, that you get to course correct history, that you get to right or wrong or you get to make straight what was crooked.” (Mitch, 18:18)

5. No Justice, No Peace – A Deeper Meaning

• Reframing the Phrase:
  • “No justice, no peace is a statement of fact… If there is no justice… we can't be together. And there can be no sense of peace. There can be no sense of harmony.” (Mitch, 19:27)
  • “I want to gently peel your hands from a false narrative of history that has been holding us back. It’s an invitation to reconcile and to be better.” (Mitch, 20:15)

6. Aftermath, Reflection, and the Future

• Rest, Rebuilding, and Identity: Landrieu shares the exhaustion of public service and his yearning for reflection and ordinary life after decades in politics.
  • “When you've been in office for 30 years and you stop… I really… need time to rest and to think and to pray and to just get away from what I've been in so that I can see it more clearly.” (Mitch, 27:25)
• Presidential Ambitions? Oprah presses on whether he’d consider higher office. Landrieu is open to continuing service but is mindful that positive change does not require political office.
  • “I've always had a sense of always wanting to be in a place where you use whatever gifts or talents you have to help other people. I will say this… that's not the only place where you can do that. You are the perfect example of that.” (Mitch, 30:58)
• America's Future – Concerns and Hopes: Landrieu laments the country’s current divisions and resistance to becoming a more multicultural nation, despite progress.
  • “We’re fighting with each other over a bunch of silliness… We're actually going backwards right now on this issue.” (Mitch, 33:37)

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Memorable Quotes & Key Moments

• Facing Racism from Both Sides:
  “That’s the first time anybody African American treated me that way. And it was a very strange first time. I remember thinking, wow, you know, black people are challenged too about race.” – Mitch Landrieu (06:15)
• The Moral Imperative:
  “I could not do it because I would really feel bad about myself... If I had to talk to my grandchild… and they said to me, papa, you were the mayor, you had the power, you had the responsibility, you had the authority. Why didn't you do it? I couldn't answer that question either.” – Mitch Landrieu (23:03)
• On Courage:
  “People think it’s this bravado thing… Actually, that's really not what it is. It's because I get afraid a lot. And I tell people… One of the ways that it helps me is I write down, I'm really afraid because … and then I just let it sit there.” – Mitch Landrieu (22:09)

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Notable Segment: Will Landrieu’s Perspective

(37:35–40:02) The episode closes with Oprah reading an essay by Mitch’s son, Will, reflecting on the personal costs of leadership and doing what’s right.

“Standing up for others is excruciatingly lonely. I know my dad must be more hurt and lonely than I am... I know that great decisions have great costs, but those costs are a fraction of what the people we are making them for have endured.” – Will Landrieu (read by Oprah, 39:30)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:11 — Landrieu describes growing up white in a racially divided South
• 06:10 — First experience with anti-white hostility and its impact
• 07:00–09:06 — Lessons from Auschwitz and the connection to fighting white supremacy
• 10:16–15:53 — The complicated, dangerous logistical battle to remove Confederate monuments
• 18:18 — Relief and pride after removal; the sense of correcting history
• 19:27 — Explaining and reframing “No justice, no peace”
• 24:50 — The political cost: losing white support and public backlash
• 27:10 — Reflecting on leaving office and his hopes for a quieter life
• 30:58 — On presidential ambitions and ways to serve
• 33:37 — The current divisive climate in America and worries for the future
• 39:30 — Will Landrieu’s essay on the cost and meaning of leadership

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Conclusion

This episode offers a powerful meditation on history, responsibility, and conscience. Landrieu’s personal narrative, paired with Oprah’s probing questions, illuminates the difficulty and necessity of confronting historical wrongs—no matter the personal or political price. The conversation is marked by humility, honesty, and a profound hope that facing truth together can pull the nation closer to its ideals.

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For listeners seeking deeper understanding of race, privilege, and leadership in America, this episode is both moving and essential.

Transcript

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[Oprah Winfrey]

hey there podcast listeners. I have exciting news. We're launching a brand new podcast in addition to Super Soul Conversations. It's called Oprah's Masterclass. The Masterclass Podcast allows you to hear the greatest life lessons from some of the most respected and renowned actors, musicians, public figures and athletes in their own words. Listen as Jay Z, Justin Timberlake, Ellen DeGeneres, Shaquille O', Neal, Reba McIntyre, Dwayne Johnson, and Jane Fonda, just to name a few, share what they've learned about life and their own insights into their personal stories and challenges. I believe that there's something to be learned from every experience and everyone can use their life as a class. Oprah's Masterclass Podcast is available now on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe now and listen free. Go to applepodcasts.com Oprah's Masterclass I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time, taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. Welcome to part two of our conversation. When you're a white Southern boy, young boy growing up, and people in school are calling you a nigger lover and your father one, and, you know, blasting your family all of the time, does it change the way you see other black people? Do you then want to disassociate with

[Mitch Landrieu]

those people because change the way you

[Oprah Winfrey]

see white people, or did it change the way you saw white people?

[Mitch Landrieu]

Yeah, it did. I didn't understand.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Did it make you defensive about your black friends?

[Mitch Landrieu]

There were a lot. Well, first of all, I kind of thought, well, those guys are just white racist people. And not all white people are racist. Some of them are. All white people are not the same at all.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And some black people are racist, too.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Absolutely. This was all the same.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. Yeah.

[Mitch Landrieu]

And so I didn't necessarily. I had thicker skin than that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So you didn't change.

[Mitch Landrieu]

I don't think I changed because what happened was when I would go home, I lived in a neighborhood that was an integrated neighborhood. And it was. I'm not saying it wasn't noticeable to me. I knew my friends were black and that I was white, but it never occurred to me that, oh, I live in a black neighborhood, or I just lived in a neighborhood where it wasn't

[Oprah Winfrey]

an issue for you.

[Mitch Landrieu]

It wasn't an issue. And my house was always open. We played basketball in the yard, we played football on the street, and we had a great time together. It wasn't until later in my life that some of my white friends told me that I didn't come to your house because you lived in a black neighborhood. And I thought, I didn't live in a black neighborhood. I lived in a really wonderful mixed neighborhood. But their definition. This goes to the one drop you got. One drop, you black.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Their definition. Their definition was different from mine. And it never occurred to me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

The fact that there are black people

[Mitch Landrieu]

in the neighborhood meant the fact that there's one black person in the neighborhood means you live in a black neighborhood. And I'll tell the story about the school that I went to when I was in. I went to St. Matthias Parochial School, and when I got to second grade, my friend Margaret, who was. I thought my girlfriend in second grade, never showed up. And I'm like, where's Margaret? And like, well, her Family moved because, you see, Keith, the little black boy, came to school here. And her daddy would not let her go to school with a black person. So I was like, well, that was my first introduction. I was like, well, wait, I lost. I don't understand what you're saying.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You lost your friend because.

[Mitch Landrieu]

And that person happened to be one of my father's best friends. He didn't want to talk about it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So tell me about the time you were playing. I think you were in.

[Mitch Landrieu]

I think you were in college. Yeah, I was in college.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And it was the first time a

[Mitch Landrieu]

black person said, I went to Catholic University. Now, remember, I grew up in a neighborhood. I played basketball, football, everything. And never without African American friends. And so we were always in scuffles, arguing, fighting, just like kids do. There was no racial anything to the way we play football on the street in New Orleans. Never once had a racial altercation about that. I went to Catholic University of America in Washington D.C. and I stayed. I didn't go to spring break one year because I was writing my senior thesis and I was in the gym. We were playing basketball, two on two. And it just turned out that it was two black kids versus two white kids. I was one of the white kids and I got into an argument with this kid. We were going up for a goal and I pushed him and he pushed me. I got elbowed, he elbowed me and I was on the ground and he stood over me and in an angry, really vicious tone, said, you're a blond haired, blue eyed devil. A really racial thing about being white. And it startled me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It was also the way he looked at you.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Well, he looked at me like he hated me. Yeah. And because I. And because I was white.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Mitch Landrieu]

And I mean, it was clearly that was what he was saying to me. And it shook me. That's the first time anybody African American treated me that way. And it was a very strange first time. I remember thinking, wow, you know, black people are challenged too about race. And that just kind of stuck in my mind. So the way this is all adding up now, and it's written in the book is all of these experience the time that I went to Auschwitz and sat there for a minute and thought about, oh my God, human beings can do awful things to each other. When white people think, you know, some people think they're superior to others because of race.

[Oprah Winfrey]

For you, just like for me, and I think for anybody that goes to Auschwitz, you come out of it more determined to fight for justice in your own way than ever before.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Well, it did that to me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You can't go there.

[Mitch Landrieu]

It did that to me. And when you're there, and because you were there, you know this. And you see, I was there with prosthetics. Oh, my God.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I went with Elie Wiesel.

[Mitch Landrieu]

So all of a sudden, you're there, and the suitcases are there, and the prosthetics and the dentures and the glasses and the suitcases, and you think, how in the world. How in the world did we ever let that happen? And I thought, and I write about this a little bit in the book, I thought about slavery in the United States of America. And then, as later in my life, as you say, why did you do it? Because this sense of denial, it didn't happen. It wasn't that bad. It was about economics. And in the environment that we're in right now, where we're actually relitigating in this country, the notion that diversity is a strength and that out of many, we are one and that we want to go back. You see, that's a place where I think, not that every white person in America is thinking this, and there are a lot of people that supported Donald Trump that are not racist, but it is clearly true that the cause of white supremacy has been given new quarter. And I think that we need to speak very forcefully to that conservative, liberal, moderate, whatever it is, this kind of thing that kind of rose its ugly head in Charlottesville. And then, of course, what happened in Charleston, which, by the way, was the moment that I decided to pull the trigger. When Charleston happened, after I had been thinking about this now for a year and a year and a half or so, when Charleston happened and the nine people were shot in church, and nine people were killed in that church for praying by a young man named Dylann Roof, who professedly did it for racial reasons. And then Joe Riley, who was a mayor of Charleston, and Nikki Haley, Republican governor, they said, okay, well, let's think about taking down the Confederate flag. I thought to myself, specifically, now is the moment to deal with this issue, because it all came full circle. And those monuments, in my opinion, helped facilitate this sense that it was okay to have these public statements of reverence for this superiority. And I said, that's not who New Orleans is.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you had also made a vow to yourself years ago in Auschwitz that if ever you were confronted with a moment of evil, that that is what you would want to do, to be able to stand up to me.

[Mitch Landrieu]

That was that moment that came back to me twice. One, when David Duke was elected to the legislature in 1990, and then now today. And then I thought, well, you know, you can't walk away from this. You have to step into this. And as I have said before, there had been many, many people that have worked through this, on whose shoulders I stood to do this. Mayor Morial worked on it. The other Mayor Morial worked on it. Mayor Bartholomew worked on it. There's a group in New Orleans called Take Them Down NOLA that worked on it. I mean, this was a massive group effort fighting against a really difficult foe. But it should not have been this hard. It should not have been this hard. And the reason I started the book off about the cranes was because I, as a very powerful mayor of a city that was rebuilding, had the law on my side, I had the political power on my side. And yet they still tried to terrorize the people who were trying to help us and make this impossible to do, which is really the definition of institutional racism. And that in and of itself is a message for the country about how we move forward.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So for the people who are listening to us right now, talk about the cranes.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Oh, for those. The cranes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

For those few who have not gotten the best seller. In the Shadow of Statues, A White Southerner Confronts History. You indeed talk about calling all over the city, trying to find in a city that has been rebuilding itself, as you've said, and there are thousands and thousands and thousands of construction workers and sites, and not one person will agree to get there.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Well, this is where I really feel silly and naive because I really did think that we were going to take the city through this discussion, and once it was decided, we were going to get them down. Because I'm building. I mean, we're building everything and we're building it fast. And there's equipment and there's people. There are mechanisms to actually just. These monuments, they're not that big and they're not hard to take down. And it took us like four days totally to take them all down over a longer period of time. So this was not a massive construction project like building a new airport that cost a billion dollars, which we're doing, by the way. And I surely thought to myself, once it was decided and I signed the executive order, it was going to come down. But no, they fought us into law. We had, I think, seven different court cases on the federal, state and local level. We had 13 judges that decided it. But once the legislative, executive and judicial branches on the federal, state and local level was decided in this country, the rule of law is now it's time to execute the law. Well, these guys thought, you know what? Hell no, we're still not going to let them take it down. And they began to engage in what I consider to be domestic terrorism. So that when you're spending money, you have to kind of put stuff out for bid, so people have to actually put their names in. So I didn't use a lot of names in the book because I was trying to protect a lot of people. But for the first company that came forward that got the bid to take the monuments down, they bombed, they firebombed he, or burned a cross or blew up the church in Birmingham, firebombed his car in the second decade of the 21st century. And from that moment, nobody would come forward to take these statues down. I literally picked up the phone and called every contractor that I knew of, not only in New Orleans, but in Louisiana and in the entire south, trying to find a crane. A crane? A crane. Just a crane, and then a crane. And here's the thing. Once the crane, a crane operator. And they basically had sent a message to everybody that if you get involved in this, somebody that you know is going to get hurt or you're going to lose business. Eventually. We found a number of businesses, some outside, some in the city, that actually were able to do it after we put this huge security blanket around them, which, of course, you know, had made us do it at night and made people cover up their identities.

[Oprah Winfrey]

The guy, they're wearing bulletproof vests, helmets.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Correct.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And I'm sure they were afraid.

[Mitch Landrieu]

They were deathly afraid. And rightly so, because the security threats were real and they were imminent. And the security measures we took, we took at the advice of the highest levels of security.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And weren't there reports, too, that people were sending drones in?

[Mitch Landrieu]

It wasn't a report. They were actually doing that. They had drones that they were flying around the cranes to try to get them to stop. Stop. They actually got to one of the cranes early on and filled up the gas tank with sand. I mean, they were sabotaging what was a legally government sanctioned, you know, process. Now, now, I don't know what else you call that. I call that domestic terrorism. And so eventually, what we had to do.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Were you afraid for your life or your family's?

[Mitch Landrieu]

I don't want to. There were. There were imminent threats that if precautions would not have been taken, it would cause you to be afraid. But we did everything that you were supposed to do in those circumstances. And so I'm not trying to be cavalier about this, but my entire life there have been innumerable death threats and you take the appropriate kinds of precautions. And yeah, what I was more concerned about was the people who were not me that were working in this entire process that were feeling very threatened. The two wonderful women that work at my front desk had to receive lots of really awful phone calls that we kept records of that would just nasty and meaningful.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You couldn't even imagine.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Hateful. You don't want to listen to that kind of stuff. And so look, we worked through it the way we were supposed to. Nobody got hurt. And I think that when we saw months later what happened in Charlottesville, I think the precautions that we took in New Orleans, it became pretty clear to people that there really were imminent threats and that people can really get hurt. And of course, you know, in the south we have open carrying. So there were people who were on the cars that were bringing, you know, assault rifles there and they were in open. And so the police did a really good job of making sure that the individuals who were part of taking down NOLA that were coming and then the anti groups were separated from each other that they were able to exercise their first amendment rights and we were able to protect everybody. And the police chief and all the security forces did a great job.

[Oprah Winfrey]

A heightened sense of danger and also far more money.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Oh, it was incredible. Well, yeah, it got to be three or four times the cost. It should have never been that way

[Oprah Winfrey]

because look at all the money you've got to spend protecting people.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Correct. But generally speaking, you know, when people got upset about that, I said, listen, you know, New Orleans is a great sports, entertainment, cultural place and we have tons of people. We just got finished French quarterfest with thousands of people. We always do what's necessary to protect people's well being. And so when this turned into we're not letting you take them down no matter what. We had to affect the law. It was the right thing to do and we had to do it in a way where people were safe and it cost a lot of money and we had to get people to donate to it. And they would only donate if I kept their donations confidential, which I have done to this day and will continue to do until they allow me to release their name.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Was there a sense of relief once they were all down? That last one?

[Mitch Landrieu]

Yeah, I felt a great sense of relief and pride. There are very few times in your life, certainly in public life, that you get to course correct history, that you get to right or wrong or you get to make straight what was crooked. And this really essentially was what we did. And it's one of the reasons why I actually wrote the speech because I wanted there to be in writing a historical record of what had happened back then, why we did what we did, what the reasons were for it. And then the than the public argument in favor of it. And essentially it is a very uniquely American story, which is that out of many, we are one and everybody's included, and we all come to the table of democracy as equals. That's really who we are. And I couldn't think of a better way for the people of New Orleans to say thank you to the people of America for helping us come out of Katrina than to send that message very loudly and clearly.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What you were ultimately trying to do is what I think the. The Picayunes writer talked about. No justice, no peace. You were trying to bring about a sense of justice so that there could be a leveling of the peace.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Well, and another way for people. You know, it's an interesting thing because when I was a kid and I heard, you know, I grew up adoring Dr. King, but also being aware of the historical fight that the people who believed in nonviolent protest were with people that said by any means necessary. And the historical Malcolm X, Dr. King theory of how you bring about social change. And when I was a kid, no justice, no peace, the way it rang in my ear was wrong, which was like, if you don't give me what's mine, we're going to get in a fight, and I'm going to take it from you. What I have come to think more about is that no justice, no peace is a statement of fact which goes something like this. If there is no justice, if I don't feel like I'm being fairly treated, if I'm not given the same opportunity, if I don't am not afforded the same responsibility, if I don't have the same kind of hope, I feel alienated from you. And when we're alienated, we can't be together. And there can be no sense of peace. There can be no sense of harmony. There can be really no sense of communion where you and I create something together that's better than what we could give to each other individually. That's really in my mind now. I think that's what that means. And so it's kind of like the difference between reverence and remembrance. They look a lot the same, but they're very different. So if we can find a higher place, if we can find a better place, we're going to be better when we're together. And so that's why that part of the speech was written, to invite people. To invite people. I want to gently peel your hands from a false narrative of history that has been holding us back. It's an invitation to reconcile and to be better if we could get to that place, and that's why I thought it was important.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Was this one of the hardest decisions you ever had to make?

[Mitch Landrieu]

Well, you know, I've been in public office for 30 years, so there have been a lot of them. This was certainly one of the most difficult to get through. Although I have to say that rebuilding a city that has been completely destroyed and completely rebuilding a health care system and an education system and physically an entire city, and given a group of people who had been beaten down badly by history, by Katrina, by Rita, by Ike, by Gustav, by the national recession, by the BP oil spill, I mean, that was a monumental task. This one was a really important one. It was a critical one because it. I think it helped. I think it helped heal a wound that had been making us less than we were. And I think now the city of New Orleans has a chance to look forward to. To the next 300 years in a way that she didn't have in the last 300 years.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Do you think it helped define you as a man?

[Mitch Landrieu]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I think. I think, you know, a lot of times, and this is what I really think courage is. People think it's this bravado thing that we see now about, I'm bigger than you and I'm stronger than you. Actually, that's really not what it is. It's. It's because I get afraid a lot. And I tell people, you know, one of the ways that it helps me is I write down I'm really afraid because. And then I just let it sit there. And the next day I come back, because if I do this, then. And I write that down, and you keep writing it down and you keep looking at it, and sometimes you go, oh, that's something I really ought to be afraid of. And then the rest of them say, I don't need to be afraid of those, because the consequences are not bad once you confront it. And you go, but, yeah, you know what?

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think that's.

[Mitch Landrieu]

You can't walk away. You can't walk away from that. I couldn't.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You had to be really afraid that somebody would get hurt.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Well, I was. First of all, I would do everything I could to make sure nobody got hurt. But most of the time, what you find out is the things that you're afraid of, you need to be able to kind of stand up against and say that, you know, what you guys are doing are not right. And in this thing, I did come to this conclusion that I think some people might disagree with. But I had come to the conclusion that, number one, what had happened was wrong, that it was a historical lie, that they should never have been there and they needed to come down and that I had the power and the responsibility to take them down. And then here's the next one. I could not do it because I would really feel bad about myself. And I tell this story that I actually had an imaginary conversation with my grandchild who was yet to be, which mirrors the 12 year old girl's conversation if I had to talk to my grandchild. And they said to me, papa, you were the mayor, you had the power, you had the responsibility, you had the authority. Why didn't you do it? I couldn't answer that question either. And so I just concluded to myself that, you know what, this is kind of just the way it falls. And this is your deal, you got to handle it because nobody else can do it. And even if they could, it's in front of you now and you cannot walk away from it. And so I felt like I had to do it. I mean, it was just kind of that simple. After all that complexity, it got down to be kind of, you've had this happen to you in your life, you know, this. It just gets to be real clear. There's a moment when you go, well, okay, that's just the thing. And the consequences of what they're going to be.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And so the taking down of the statues became a symbol for something deeper, greater, more powerful.

[Mitch Landrieu]

I just think it was really important. There are people who threaten me, you know, people besides the physical threats, but people threaten me politically.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You lost a lot of white support.

[Mitch Landrieu]

I lost two thirds of my white support.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's what I heard.

[Mitch Landrieu]

So the beautiful thing, here's what's really wonderful. When I got elected both times, but the first time I got 66% of the votes in the city, which was pretty good. But what was really good about it is that my votes were equally white and equally black. And that's never happened before. Usually politicians put together coalitions of one sort or another. After I took the monuments down, 2/3 of the whites in the city, although my city's still pretty progressive, basically said, I'm not for you anymore. Now the reason that really ticks me off is because I get that I make decisions all the time that people don't agree with. But this is the first one that I've made where people said, that issue will cause me not to vote for you again. Because, you know, we just, we make decisions and they're all hard. And we can't ever agree with everybody. I was honest, I worked hard, I ran a competent government. We turned the city around. We did a lot of great stuff. But I've never had an issue where people severed their relationships with me because of it. Now, to me, that says more about them than it says about me. That means that those individuals, I think, have further to go on this issue. Which is why I keep saying, you've got to beat this issue down.

[Oprah Winfrey]

When you walk through town, do some of the white people treat you differently?

[Mitch Landrieu]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. No question. Furious with me. Furious. Well, people outside. White people, outside of New Orleans particularly. But this is interesting because people that don't live in the city anymore think that they still run the city. And while we love having them there and they're welcome in the city all the time, generally the rule is that if you don't own it, you don't have really much to say about it, like if it's not your property or your government. And so that was been interesting to get through. I will have to say, though, that since it's been over and the book has been out and a lot of people have read the book, I have had a lot of white people come up to me and say, you know what?

[Oprah Winfrey]

I didn't see it that way before.

[Mitch Landrieu]

I didn't see it that way before. And now I love that, don't you?

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love it when that happens.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Well, it's a beautiful thing. But I also have some people say, you ruined the city and I'll never vote for you again. I said, that's great. I said, I'll never run if anything again. So we're good to go.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Never running for anything again. Okay.

[Mitch Landrieu]

It's a nice base that you feel free that way.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What are you gonna do 21 days from now? You wake up after 30 days.

[Mitch Landrieu]

I'm gonna rest.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're gonna rest?

[Mitch Landrieu]

I really, you know, it's a 21

[Oprah Winfrey]

days from now, it's done.

[Mitch Landrieu]

It's really weird. I'm starting to. You can feel the end of something coming. And when you've been doing something for 30 years and you take it for granted, all of a sudden, it could

[Oprah Winfrey]

be the beginning of something else.

[Mitch Landrieu]

It could be. You never know. But when you've been in office for 30 years and you stop, I really. This is going to sound weird, but I need time to rest and to think and to pray and to just get away from what I've been in so that I can see it more clearly. Because you get There's a lot of this when you're in office. A lot of people on you who likes you. When you had a schedule, schedule every day. You're running from thing to thing. You don't have time to really. Are you prepared for that?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Are you prepared? Are you prepared? I think I am. Are you okay?

[Mitch Landrieu]

I think. Well, let me say this. I think it's going to be hard, but I'm very interested and anxious to separate myself.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's interesting.

[Mitch Landrieu]

I do really want to get away. I don't really know. I've been blessed in my life. I have a wife. I have five beautiful kids. I have eight brothers and sisters. I got 33 nieces and nephews. And I've been given the opportunity to do a lot of beautiful things, not the least of which is rebuild a great American city, which has been spectacular. People of New Orleans are drop dead fantastic in every way. You know this. You've been there, you've worked there. It's a soulful place. If you love them, they're gonna love you forever. It's just a great, great place. But I am very. I am very interested in trying to find out what it feels like to just really have your feet on the ground and just to be a regular dude and to get distance and to think about what happened. And then I'm not anxious about the future at all. I have no concerns or worries in the sense that, like, everything's, you know, it's not going to be okay. It's going to be fine. I don't know what it's going to look like, though. But I am very open to doing something completely different than what I've been doing for the past 30 years. And I'm really kind of interested to see how that develops in my willingness to receive whatever and if it is politics.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because I've been asked this question. That's why I'm being tentative about asking you.

[Mitch Landrieu]

You can ask me, I'll answer.

[Oprah Winfrey]

About running for president. Are you. Would you consider it? Would you be open to the possibility that that might be.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Well, here's the political game that everybody plays. Plays because there are 50 different iterations. Are you running for president? No. Does that mean you're never running for president? You go, well, how would you now? So first of all, let me just be completely authentic about this. You don't serve in politics and not get prideful. When somebody says, you could be a good president, you could be good. Oh, you know, I mean, every human being, it's like saying, we start playing tennis well, you could be Roger Fish. Really? You know, so I hear, I mean, I hear that, right? I've been there 30 years and it feels like what? When you hear that, it just feels. It makes you proud that somebody thinks that you might be the President of the United States. That makes you proud. You can't say that it doesn't. But the next questions get really, really hard. Would you ever think about it? Well, of course. I mean, when people are talking about you possibly doing that, yeah, it makes you think about it. But then it gets really hard. It's like, well, would you do it? Now that's a really hard question. Because the truth of the matter is I don't. I don't. I'm not really planning to do that. Now, politicians all the time say, well, I'm not planning to do it, but they really are. I'm really not.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, but what would make you do it? What would cause you to do it? Is there something that could cause you to do it?

[Mitch Landrieu]

I'm sure that there is. I've always had a saying sense of always wanting to be in a place where you use whatever gifts or talents you have to help other people. I will say this though, and I have a very strong feeling about this. That's not the only place where you can do that. You are the perfect example of that. And sometimes people can get deluded into thinking that that's the only place where that can be done. Now, you know, President Bush, there are

[Oprah Winfrey]

lots of different ways to touch, you

[Mitch Landrieu]

know, President Bush, you know, all these people. You know then in a very personal way that that job is an incredible sacrifice. It's a life ending sacrifice in some ways, not physically, but spiritually and in a way that like, once you do that, there's really nothing else you've done. And so it's not an easy sacrifice to make. And plus, it takes a lot of hubris and arrogance to think that you're the only person that can do that. And there are a lot of other people that can. I happen to think that the country is in a really bad place right now. I don't think that what's happening on the federal level is really what we need to be doing. And I think the country is in a space that we have to get out of. And it's an interesting thing for us to think about as a people. That's not just a political question. Activecampaign is the marketing automation platform built for big swings and big dreams with intelligent suggestions, powered by AI and your data generate ideas in seconds. Import your brand and create full campaigns with simple prompts. Send personalized messages backed by real time feedback, smart segmentation and effortless reporting that tracks every win. Let's redefine what's possible together. Get started for [e-mail] hi, it's Sarah

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[Oprah Winfrey]

what's the worst about where we are right now? When you wake up and you think

[Mitch Landrieu]

about we're fighting with each other over a bunch of silliness. Like, I don't, I think we're relitigating issues that should be closed, like, is diversity a strength or a weakness? We are a multicultural country. That's who we are. And the fact of the matter is that in 2040, we're going to be more multicultural as we are now. So why are we resisting what we know is coming to be? It's coming and not making it better and making it worse. We're actually going backwards right now on this issue. And I think everybody in this country has to be seen and everybody has to be heard. And this is about race and it's about class. And I think that we have to learn that. As a matter of fact, as a matter of economic sense, as a matter of national security, in every way, the United States of America is better today than in many ways it has ever been. So why are we so afraid of each other? Why are we fighting each other so much? Why are we actually, just by forced error, our own forced error, moving backwards rather than forward. Everybody knew this. When Barack Obama got elected, this entire country, people that voted for him and did and went, wow, we just did something that we have never done before. And he served very well and he served admirably. He was a great president. People may not have agreed with everything that he'd done, but there's no doubt that he moved the country forward. Why do we now feel like everybody's got to go back and say, that was a terrible mistake, let's go ahead and divide the country racially again and not think about how we can, you know, be great and great not just as a government, but great as a people. I don't really understand that right now. And I don't think the country really has a good feeling at the moment that we know the answer to that question.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Have we lost our moral authority?

[Mitch Landrieu]

Well, I think we're working at it. I think that we as a country are working at it. But my sense is that long term, even though I wouldn't take this for granted, because I think you have to fight for freedom. I think freedom doesn't come on its own. You got to fight for it every day and you got to fight for what your idea of America is. And that fight goes on every day with mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters and aunts.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But if we're not, if you don't believe that we're stronger as one, then you don't believe in the United States.

[Mitch Landrieu]

I agree. That's what I think. And I think that that idea, that idea is worth fighting for. But I don't think, to answer your question more directly, that the only way that you can do that is to be in government. And I think that there are lots of different ways. For example, when Disney did Black Panther. Yeah, transformational movie. Now you've been doing this your entire life. A transformational movie. Back to the little 12 year old girl. When she goes and watches Black Panther. Now does she feel open and invited and powerful and does she feel like, oh my goodness, now I can be great? The answer is yeah, you go watch that movie. That movie is so spectacular. So artists, writers, poets, playwrights, musicians, social activists, they can all change the world. And you've seen presidents in their post presidency, Jim Ricardo being one of them, who would admittedly himself say that I was much better not being in office than not. And so what I want Americans to, to really kind of get keyed in on is that when 300 million people decide that they want to do something, when each of them does something on their own, the country can move forward. And it doesn't have anything to do with politics. And that is a very Interesting concept to me. And so as I think about what the next iteration is going to be in my life, you know, I don't want to get stuck in this thing that I've been stuck in without having really, really, really thought about it. And, you know, the sense of helping other people do it is more important than to me, than me being the guy. That's not saying that you never say never because you don't ever know where God wants you to be, and you don't close off those possibilities. But it's not something that really is at the forefront of my mind at the moment.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I hear that answer, and I trust that it's true. I can feel that that's true. That does not sound like things change.

[Mitch Landrieu]

Who the heck knows?

[Oprah Winfrey]

But I don't know who the heck knows. I want to end this conversation with the words from your son. It struck me so at the end of the book. In the Shadow of Statues, A White Southerner Confronts History. You came across your son's essay, right, that he was writing for college, and he says this. His name is Will Landrieu. Will you get the last word? Growing up as the son of the mayor of New Orleans, I've seen the struggles of leadership. In response to years of discussion, my father decided to remove the Confederate monuments found across our city. He delivered a speech on the topic that, though nationally was applauded, was locally controversial. There was discord in the city, leading to tense protests that bordered on violence. Despite 30 years of earning the public's approval, the vitriol thrust through my father's professional life directly to the daily lives of our family. We didn't feel safe anywhere or with anyone for the two days after the removal, I walked down the school hallway, bracing myself as my classmates yelled out, nigger lover. And your dad is ruining the city. My closest friend even sent me articles with false rumors about my father. Until now, I have kept these words to myself. Standing up for others is excruciatingly lonely. I know my dad must be more hurt and lonely than I am. As my black friends explain, at least my family is lonely by choice. They were simply born just a little bit darker than I was. Until the monuments were removed, my friends never imagined they would live a day where they wouldn't walk the hallways or sit in history class in fear of the next hateful comment. I know the decision is right because my friends would want someone to stand up for them. I have the ability to do that. So I intend to take full advantage of my privilege. I know that great decisions have great costs, but those costs are a fraction of what the people we are making them for have endured. Thank you, Will Landrieu thank you Mitch Landrieu. Thank you in the Shadow of Statues thank you.

[Mitch Landrieu]

It's great being with you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Great being with you. Hey there podcast listeners. I have exciting news. We're launching a brand new podcast in addition to Super Soul Conversations. It's called Oprah's Masterclass. The Masterclass podcast allows you to hear the greatest life lessons from some of the most respected and renowned actors, musicians, public figures and athletes in their own words. Listen as Jay Z, Justin Timberlake, Ellen DeGeneres, Shaquille O', Neal, Reba McEntire, Dwayne Johnson and Jane Fonda, just to name a few, share what they've learned about life and their own insights into their personal stories and challenges. I believe that there's something to be learned from every experience and everyone can use their life as a class. Oprah's Masterclass podcast will be available July 19 on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe now and listen free. Go to applepodcasts.com oprahsmasterclass I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe. Rate and review this podcast. Join me next week for another Super Soul Conversation. Thank you for listening.

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