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Oprah's Super Soul
Super Soul Special: Dr. Maya Angelou, Part 1: 9 Words That Changed Her Life
00:29:04
In the first of a special two-part podcast, Oprah has a conversation with her beloved mentor, the late poet, author, icon and activist Dr. Maya Angelou. She's also the woman Oprah called her mother, sister and friend for more than 30 years. Oprah says, "She was there for me always, guiding me through some of the most important years of my life. The world knows her as a poet, but at the heart of her, she was a teacher."
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- [00:00]
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- [00:33]
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- [01:21]
Oprah Winfrey
I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.
- [01:26]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
I believe that one of the most.
- [01:28]
Oprah Winfrey
Valuable gifts you can give yourself is time. Taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. Maya Angelou has been a writer, dancer, singer, artist, professor, director and activist. She's traveled the world, speaks seven languages and is one of the world's greatest poets. But to me, she's my mother's sister friend as I call her. The woman I've looked to for strength and inspiration for more than 35 years now. Maya Angelou was born in St. Louis in 1928. By the time she was 7, she'd already suffered a life changing event. She was raped by mother's boyfriend. Maya told her family what had happened and when the man was later found murdered, she believed in her seven year old mine that it was all her fault. Convinced that her words had the power to kill young, Maya didn't speak another word for several years, retreating into a private world populated with books and poetry. In fact, it was poetry that helped her find her voice again as she learned from one of her teachers that great poetry must be spoken and speak she did. Maya grew into a confident and accomplished force of nature. As an adult, she became a fierce civil rights activist, working closely with both Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Her seminal autobiography, I Know why The Caged Bird Sings, published to international acclaim, was named by Time magazine to be One of the 100 Best Nonfiction Books of all time. And she just finished her latest piece of work and inspiration, sharing some of the deepest personal stories of her life. In mom and Me and Mom. She's given motherly advice to millions and is certainly, as I've said many times, like a mother to me.
- [03:25]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Well, we've known each other for so long now, I actually do feel like your daughter.
- [03:30]
Maya Angelou
You are my daughter.
- [03:31]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
I am your daughter?
- [03:32]
Maya Angelou
Yes, ma'.
- [03:32]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Am. Yes. And you are my mother.
- [03:35]
Maya Angelou
Yes, I am.
- [03:35]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
You are my sister.
- [03:36]
Maya Angelou
Yes, I am.
- [03:37]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
And have been a friend.
- [03:38]
Maya Angelou
I am all that from the very.
- [03:40]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
First day we met. And, you know, when I first met you and asked if I could do that interview with you so many years ago, I had no. I just think how great God is because in that moment, I was. I allowed myself to be vulnerable enough to take the risk of being turned down by you. I think I was in my early.
- [04:01]
Maya Angelou
20S, if that really. Yes, yes. But when you said, Dr. Andrews, I said, no, I'm afraid I can't really. I thank you, but I'm going to be speaking. You said, if you'll give me five minutes, I promise you I will only spend five minutes. So I said, all right. All right. Because of your persistence. And you had good questions. You listened to my answers and you had another good question. And then you said, thank you so much, Dr. Angelo, I appreciate it. And goodbye. And I looked at my watch. It was exactly five minutes. I asked you, what did you say your name was? Tell me your first name again.
- [04:46]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yes. You literally said, in my memory, you say, who are you, girl?
- [04:49]
Maya Angelou
That's right. That's right.
- [04:50]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Who are you, girl?
- [04:51]
Maya Angelou
That's right.
- [04:52]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yes.
- [04:53]
Maya Angelou
Yeah.
- [04:55]
Oprah Winfrey
In Maya Angelou's latest book, she shares the deepest personal story of her life, the relationship with her mother, Vivian Baxter, a former nurse who ran her own gambling club, pool hall and boarding house. Vivian Baxter could be as fiery as she was. Nurturing their relationship, like a lot of mother daughters, was powerful but complicated. When seven year old Maya stopped speaking, Vivian sent Maya and her brother Bailey away to live with their grandmother in rural Stamps, Arkansas. Then When Maya turned 13, Vivian called Maya and Bailey home to San Francisco. At that time, Maya began to truly get to know her mother. Independent and energetic, shrewd and gutsy, Vivian Baxter was someone to be reckoned with.
- [05:41]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
You've written a new book.
- [05:43]
Maya Angelou
I know it.
- [05:44]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Mom and me and Mom. And we're going to talk a lot about that today. Because I know what Vivian Baxter meant in your life?
- [05:51]
Maya Angelou
Yes.
- [05:52]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
And you say that your mother's love encouraged you to live your life with pizazz?
- [05:58]
Maya Angelou
Yes.
- [05:59]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Would you say that you've had a life filled with pizazz?
- [06:02]
Maya Angelou
Yes, I have.
- [06:03]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
You have such a long list of achievements as we were compiling them. You were the first black streetcar conductor in the city of San Francisco.
- [06:12]
Maya Angelou
I was 16.
- [06:13]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
You were 16?
- [06:14]
Maya Angelou
Yes. I was black 16 and had the nerve to want. I saw women on the streetcars with their little changer belts with, you know that. And they had caps with bills on them and they had form fitting jackets.
- [06:31]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
You liked the uniforms?
- [06:32]
Maya Angelou
I loved the uniforms. So I said, that's the job I want.
- [06:39]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
They'd never hired a black person.
- [06:40]
Maya Angelou
They had never. No.
- [06:42]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
So did you see that as the accomplishment that it was at the time?
- [06:46]
Maya Angelou
No. My mother did. Because, Mother, I said, I went down to place an application and they wouldn't even give it to me. And so I went back to my mother and I said, they wouldn't even allow me to apply. She asked me why. Do you know why? I said yes, Because I'm a Negro. She said, yes, but do you want the job? I said, yes. She said, go get it. Here. I give you money every day. You go down, be there before the secretaries get there. You sit there in the office, you read one of your big thick Russian books. I was reading Dostoevsky, a Tolstoy or something at the time. She said, and then when they go to lunch, then you go, go to a good restaurant, you know how to order good food. Go back before the secretaries get there. I did all of. And then sit there until they leave. They laughed at me. They pushed out their lips and used some negative racial things and. But I sat there 16. Yes, but look here, here was the thing. I sat there because I was afraid to go home. I was afraid to tell my mother that I wasn't as strong as she thought I was.
- [07:56]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Wow.
- [07:57]
Maya Angelou
So I sat there for two weeks every day. And then after two weeks, a man came out of his office. He said, come in. And he asked me, why do you want the job? I said, I like the uniforms. And I said, and I like people. And so I got the job. Amazing.
- [08:21]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
What's amazing is the story that you tell in mom and me of your mother knowing that you were a 16 year old on the streetcars and that she followed you in her.
- [08:31]
Maya Angelou
You tell this story about four o' clock in the morning. She'd wake me up with my bath already drawn I'd take a bath, put on my uniform, and she would drive me out to the beach. And she had her pistol on the seat of the car. And she would follow the streetcar all the way from the beach down to the Ferry Building, right through San Francisco and back again out to the beach until daybreak. I mean, stay close so that nobody got on that she didn't see. And then at 6:30 or 7:30, that's a mother. She's a mother.
- [09:05]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
That's a mother.
- [09:06]
Maya Angelou
She was really all of that. And she asked me once, she said, now, what did you learn from that job? Because when it was time for me to go back to school, I went back to school. I said, I learned that I like to work. She said, what else did you learn? I said, I don't know. She said, about yourself. You learn that you're very strong. The determination, wow, dedication. And you can go anywhere in the world, anywhere. And I've gone everywhere in the world.
- [09:39]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
So as we list all of your achievements, the first black streetcar conductor, dancer, singer, poet, playwright, film producer, director, actor, civil rights activist, professor of American studies at Wake Forest University, recipient of more than 70 honorary doctorate degrees and author of more than 30 books. Is there anything you wanted to have on that list but didn't get a chance to do?
- [10:06]
Maya Angelou
One of the things I wanted was to have a daughter. I have a son who is in my heart, wonderful young man, wonderful person, good human being, daring and loving and strong and kind. I wanted a daughter. And I've taken people's daughters. I have certainly taken you. I took my daughter in law because I know I'm a good mother. I care and I dare. I care enough to let you go, but I dare enough to follow you.
- [10:45]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
I will say that too. And I will say, you know, one of my part of my nature is to be obedient. I'm obedient to God's call. And over the years, when I would call you for advice, sometimes I would take it.
- [10:58]
Maya Angelou
I knew it.
- [10:59]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Most often I would take it. Most often I took it. Right?
- [11:03]
Maya Angelou
Yes, that's true.
- [11:03]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
And sometimes I didn't. But you have never been the kind of mother that says, I told you so.
- [11:08]
Maya Angelou
No.
- [11:08]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
So when I didn't take it and the mistake inevitably happened, you were not the kind of mother to come back and say, I told you.
- [11:15]
Maya Angelou
But you were the kind of daughter who said, I was wrong.
- [11:18]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
I was wrong. I should have listened. I should have listened. First of all, have you ever tried and failed at something?
- [11:24]
Maya Angelou
Yes, many times. Many times. You forgive yourself for every failure.
- [11:29]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yes.
- [11:30]
Maya Angelou
Because you tried to do the right thing. God knows that and you know it.
- [11:35]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yeah.
- [11:35]
Maya Angelou
Nobody else may know it.
- [11:36]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yeah. Well, because one of the great lessons that I've learned from you and it's so, so interesting. I was just interviewing Cissy Houston and, and she recited to me what I have learned from you and I've now recited to other people. So now it's coming back to me. And she said, well, you know, when you know better, you do better.
- [11:51]
Maya Angelou
That's the ticket.
- [11:52]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
That's the ticket.
- [11:53]
Maya Angelou
That's it.
- [11:54]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
And that's why you forgive yourself.
- [11:56]
Maya Angelou
Yes, ma'.
- [11:56]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Am. Because if you'd known better, I'd have done better.
- [11:59]
Maya Angelou
Yes, of course. Just forgive it. I mean, mind you, we asked the Creator to forgive.
- [12:06]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yes.
- [12:07]
Maya Angelou
Our stupidest actions.
- [12:09]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yes.
- [12:10]
Maya Angelou
Cruelist, mean hearted things and say, God.
- [12:14]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Forgive me, forgive me, or people will.
- [12:16]
Oprah Winfrey
Say I'm not perfect.
- [12:17]
Maya Angelou
Yes, that's right. So then you forgive and it relieves you. You are relieved of carrying that burden of resentment. You really are lighter. You feel lighter, you just drop that.
- [12:37]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
I know you often say love liberates us, but actually forgiveness does also.
- [12:42]
Maya Angelou
But I mean, you can't forgive without loving.
- [12:45]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yes.
- [12:45]
Maya Angelou
And I don't mean sentimentality, I don't mean mush. I mean having enough courage to stand out and say, I forgive. I'm finished with it.
- [12:56]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yes.
- [12:56]
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- [13:02]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
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- [13:02]
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- [13:37]
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- [14:12]
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- [14:20]
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- [14:29]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
So as the Presidential Medal of Freedom is the highest civilian honor any one person can receive in our country. What were you thinking when you were sitting there and the president placed that medal around your neck?
- [14:43]
Maya Angelou
I thought of my grandma, and I thought of my mother and my brother. My grandma. When I stopped talking, my grandmother said to me, sister. My father's mother, she said, sister, Mama don't care. These people say, you must be an idiot. You must be a moron because you can't talk. Sister, Mama don't care. Mama know when you and the good Lord get ready, you're going to be a teacher, sister. You're going to teach all over this world. I used to sit there and think, this poor, ignorant woman, then she knew I would never speak. And now I teach all over the world. She also told me, sister, when you get give, when you learn, teach. And so when this incredible medal of freedom was given to me, I thought of all the Africans who were brought to this country, longing for freedom, coming on a nightmare and wishing for a dream. I thought of the Jews. I thought of the Arabs. I thought of people coming from Ireland when the potato blight had absolutely wiped out Ireland. I thought of all the people who came looking for freedom. I was so overcome. Oprah. The truth is, if I had been asked to speak, I couldn't speak at that time. I. I thought of all those people at Ellis island, all those people in Virginia who got off the slave ships in Jamestown. I thought of Asians coming to this country, building the railroads in 1850, unable legally to bring their mates for decades. I was so filled that when I was taken out of that room, I sobbed in gratitude.
- [16:31]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
When you left that room?
- [16:32]
Maya Angelou
Yes, ma'. Am.
- [16:34]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
At the White House.
- [16:35]
Maya Angelou
At the White House. I sobbed in gratitude. Thank God. I thank God. I'm myself, and I thank God for The life I'm given to live. And I thank God that I can see and hear and smell and taste him. I thank God for friends and lovers and beloveds. And I thank God for knowing that all those people have already paid for me.
- [16:59]
Oprah Winfrey
This is one of my favorite lessons. These words originally came from Aya's dear friend, the novelist James Baldwin. These words are sacred to me. Your crown has been bought and paid for. All you have to do is put it on your head. It's a reminder that you already have the power. You already have what you need because of those who paved the way and came before.
- [17:24]
Maya Angelou
You've already been paid for. Yes. By people who never even saw your face, didn't know what name you would have. They paid for you already. And so it behooves you then to prepare yourself so you can pay for someone else who is yet to come, whose name you'll never know. Face you will never see. Amazing. So you just keep it going, the good thing going.
- [17:50]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
You pave the way.
- [17:51]
Maya Angelou
Yes, ma'. Am.
- [17:52]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
For other people to, first of all, see themselves differently.
- [17:55]
Maya Angelou
Yes, ma'. Am. Yes.
- [17:56]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yeah. And it all started with I Know why the Caged Bird Sings.
- [18:00]
Maya Angelou
That's right.
- [18:01]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
And Time magazine just recently named I Know why the Caged Bird Sings as One of the 100 Best Nonfiction Books of all time. What a blessing in the history of books. What a blessing for many of us, certainly for me. I Know why the Caged Bird Sings was my introduction, my first encounter with you, as I've often shared on the Oprah Show. And anytime I was talking about how I met you. It's the first page. It's the opening page. Yeah. What you're looking at me for?
- [18:33]
Maya Angelou
I didn't come to stay.
- [18:34]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
I didn't come to stay. Only came to say happy Easter Day. It was the first time I, as a Negro girl, because we were called Negroes at the time, had ever read about somebody else's life who so closely resembled my own. You were raised by your grandmother. I was raised by my grandmother. You grew up in the church reciting Easter pieces and Christmas pieces and all that life. So for the first time ever, reading a book. And I loved reading as a child, but it's the first time I ever felt validated and I felt like someone knows me, knows who I am. And I think that's what all of your books do. And particularly now, as I'm reading the story about you and your mother, there's something about the stories of your life that resonate with the stories of all of our lives. Is that why you wrote it?
- [19:30]
Maya Angelou
Well, I don't know if that's why. That's one of the whys.
- [19:33]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yes.
- [19:34]
Maya Angelou
One of the whys is because I can write. And writers write, and writers write. Also because I wanted to see my mother a little apart from me so that I could really love her life. And once you love somebody's life means you understand their lives.
- [20:01]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yes.
- [20:01]
Maya Angelou
And so you can understand why a person does a certain thing.
- [20:04]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Because you say in the book, and I've heard you say before about her, that she was not a good mother for young children.
- [20:10]
Maya Angelou
She was terrible.
- [20:11]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Terrible for young children.
- [20:12]
Maya Angelou
Yes. And my mother explained to me once, I asked her to never tell it again. She said when I was about two.
- [20:19]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Two years old.
- [20:20]
Maya Angelou
Two or three years old. That she had. I had asked for something and she didn't give it to me. And I had slapped her on her leg, and we were sitting on the porch, and she backhanded me off the porch into the dirt. She said I didn't have what was necessary for a young mother. I didn't have that. But this woman was the greatest mother of a young adult. Incredible. Just fantastic. She told me once, when I was 22, we were walking down the street, and she said, baby, stop a minute. And I stopped. She said, you know, I think you're the greatest woman I've ever met. I was 22 years old, and I looked down at this woman that people called lady because I had named her Lady. And also, she owned hotels and things, and people admired her. And some were frightened of her. Rightly, she said, Mary McLeod Bethune, Eleanor Roosevelt. And my mother, you're in that category. Give me a kiss. And she kissed me on my lips and went across the street to get in her car.
- [21:41]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Oh.
- [21:42]
Maya Angelou
And I thought, you know, suppose she's right. Suppose I really am going to be somebody. Maybe I should stop smoking and stop drinking and stop cursing. Well, I did stop cursing from that day to this. I still don't really. Really. It's rare for me to use a profane word. Very rare.
- [22:10]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
I have to ask you, you've put out so much art in the world. What part or piece of art are you proudest of? Is there one? Are there several? Is it the body of art?
- [22:25]
Maya Angelou
Yes.
- [22:26]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Your words?
- [22:27]
Maya Angelou
Yes. It would be songs, lyrics, some music. I think my greatest blessing. My greatest blessing has been the birth of my son. My next greatest blessing has been my ability to turn people into children of mine is my greatest blessing. And sometimes, you know, I have, you.
- [22:58]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Know, what your greatest gift to me is is that every one of us who considers ourselves to be your daughter or your son, Z. Every one of us thinks we're the most special. So I think that is the mark of a great mother is to make everyone feel like they are the special one.
- [23:17]
Maya Angelou
And you know, you really are. Thank you for that.
- [23:26]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
I remember that when Gail's mother passed and I spoke at her mother's funeral, all the sisters said we thought we were her favorite. Each sister thought they were the favorite.
- [23:36]
Maya Angelou
Absolutely.
- [23:37]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
That's the gift. That's a gift that a mother can give. The greatest story of all the stories I've heard in this book and heard you tell about your mother over the years, and I had the pleasure and Honor of Meeting Ms. Vivian Baxter myself and seeing her at your house. But the greatest story is when you were. I don't.
- [23:58]
Oprah Winfrey
I don't remember how old you were.
- [23:59]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
When you were working and you'd gotten off of work. And this. The guy picks you up at work. Yeah. Tell that story.
- [24:07]
Maya Angelou
And a man who was a loving man and loving romantically as well, picked me up and drove me out to an area in San Francisco called Half Moon Bay.
- [24:21]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Half Moon Bay.
- [24:21]
Maya Angelou
He asked me to get out of the car. I got out of the car.
- [24:24]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
You'd been dating him for a while?
- [24:26]
Maya Angelou
Yes. And he was really wonderful, I thought. And when I walked around the car, I thought we read a romantic plays out by the bay and so forth. And he hit me with his fists. And he had been a prize fighter. He hit me, he beat me. And sometimes I'd go unconscious and I'd come to and look at him and he would. Had a big plank and hit me. And I'd go out again. The next thing I knew, I was in the back of his car. And he drove to a restaurant in San Francisco at that time called Betty Lou's Chicken Shack. And he pulled up there and he called the men over and showed them. He said, this is what you do to a bee who is cheating on you. And the people looked and they went back in and told, Ms. Betty Lou, this man has your friend's daughter in the back of his car. I think she's dead. Ms. Betty Lou called my mother and my mother went to her pool hall and she got two of the.
- [25:39]
Oprah Winfrey
She owned the pool hall, right?
- [25:40]
Maya Angelou
She owned the pool hall. She went there and got the baddest, the most scarred up people she could find. She said, I want you to come with me. And she found where the man lived and she knocked at the door.
- [25:54]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
How long were you there? That's what I couldn't tell from him.
- [25:55]
Maya Angelou
About two or three days.
- [25:57]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
He, like, held you captive?
- [25:59]
Maya Angelou
Yes. The next thing I heard was loud shouting in the hall. And my mother said, break this SOB down. Break it down. My baby's in there. And the two huge men broke down the door.
- [26:15]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
So she rescued you. This is what I love about the story. Your mother comes through the door. She breaks through the door. After three days, she rescues you, nurses you back to health. He takes care of you.
- [26:25]
Maya Angelou
Yes.
- [26:25]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
And then one day he says, go get him. This is where he is.
- [26:29]
Maya Angelou
And she had friends who knew him and knew she'd put the word out on him.
- [26:34]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
I wouldn't mess with Vivian Baxter.
- [26:36]
Maya Angelou
No, never.
- [26:37]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Do not mess with her.
- [26:38]
Maya Angelou
She wasn't playing.
- [26:39]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
She wasn't playing.
- [26:40]
Maya Angelou
She said, I laugh and joke, but I don't play.
- [26:43]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Tell me this. You say words are things and that they're so powerful. Do you have a favorite word?
- [26:51]
Maya Angelou
Oh, love.
- [26:53]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Love is your favorite word?
- [26:54]
Maya Angelou
Yeah, maybe.
- [26:55]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Are there words that you. Maya Angelou, as a writer, just like the sound of and the use.
- [27:00]
Maya Angelou
Murmur.
- [27:01]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
You like murmur.
- [27:02]
Maya Angelou
M U r. M U r. Yeah, it sounds good, doesn't it?
- [27:06]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
It does sound good.
- [27:07]
Maya Angelou
Murmur. You can't shout murmur. It is murmur. Murmur.
- [27:11]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
You can't shout murmur.
- [27:13]
Maya Angelou
No.
- [27:14]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
The one thing that I think that I have admired and loved about you, that I couldn't articulate, it just occurred to me now. I remember once being in your house, and somebody was telling a joke, and you were on the other. We were at a party. It was a lot of noise in the room, and they were making. Telling a joke, and it was a racist homosexual joke. And you stopped the party.
- [27:40]
Maya Angelou
Mm.
- [27:41]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
First of all, I couldn't believe. I was like, how can she hear that? And she's all the way over there. But you stop and ask the person to excuse themselves and leave your house.
- [27:50]
Maya Angelou
Yes, exactly. I say, is this your coat? Did you come with anyone? Both of you come this way.
- [27:58]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
I know.
- [27:59]
Maya Angelou
Oh, yes. No, no, no, no, no.
- [28:01]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
So. And everybody else is like, whoa, what just happened? And then you said to all of us, I will not allow it in my house.
- [28:08]
Maya Angelou
That's right. It's vulgarity, and it's poison. And this is what a person must know. I know there are black people who say, oh, you can use the N word to me because I'm black. No, it is poison. All of that. Any racial, pejorative, sexual pejorative, any of that stuff is created to make a person less than Human. And that means it's poison. Nobody can use it safely. I mean, if poison is poison that you get from a fence and it has P O I S O N on it and skull and bones.
- [28:44]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yes.
- [28:45]
Maya Angelou
You can't take that content and pour it into Bavarian crystal and make it. Otherwise, it's still poison.
- [28:51]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yes.
- [28:52]
Maya Angelou
So you don't want it cling to the walls, get into the upholstery in your clothes, and sooner or later, right into you.
- [29:00]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Right into you.
- [29:01]
Maya Angelou
Yes, ma'. Am.
- [29:01]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Okay, so this is what I want to know. Where did you get the courage to not allow it in your space? Because there have been many of you are watching right now. People say things that make you uncomfortable. They start a joke that's going to be, you know, it's leading down a racial path or homophobic path or whatever. And people just sort of. People laugh nervously at it because they don't know how to stop it. How do you stop it?
- [29:25]
Maya Angelou
You don't stop it by doing it immediately. You develop courage. Courage, Oprah is the most important of all the virtues. Because without courage, you cannot practice any other virtue consistently. You can be anything, erratically now and then. Kind, fair, true, generous, just blah, blah. But to do that thing time after time. So what you do is you do it in small ways. I mean, if you wanted to pick up 100 pound weight, you wouldn't just.
- [29:55]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Go pick up that.
- [29:56]
Maya Angelou
You start picking five pounds, then ten pound, then twenty. Well, that's the same way you do with courage. You do the courageous thing, a small one, and you like yourself. And then you do another two or three, and you like yourself better. And before you know it, you're able to say, excuse me. Not in my house, you don't. You don't paint my walls with poison and vulgarity. You will not do it in my house. Out. Is this your purse? Thank you. Oh, my goodness. My. I've seen it. I know.
- [30:29]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Because you believe that words are things.
- [30:32]
Maya Angelou
Yes, ma', am, I know they are.
- [30:33]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
They are things. Absolutely.
- [30:35]
Maya Angelou
You can put some words together and make people want to go to war, put another few words and make them long for peace.
- [30:42]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yes.
- [30:43]
Maya Angelou
Words are so important. And this is what you take to God. Words. You may not frame them, but God knows your heart.
- [30:51]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yes.
- [30:52]
Maya Angelou
So when you go down on your knees or in your bed or riding in a car and you pray, you're using words. I'm lonely. I'm hungry. I'm lost, I'm in pain. Whatever your words are, Help. They are words. They inform not only God, but anybody around you, how you really feel. You're able to speak in nuances. Yeah.
- [31:20]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
So be careful how you use them.
- [31:23]
Maya Angelou
Yes, ma'. Am.
- [31:24]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Because they carry the power.
- [31:25]
Maya Angelou
Yes, ma'. Am.
- [31:26]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Yeah.
- [31:27]
Maya Angelou
Thank you.
- [31:28]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Thank you. Thank you, Maya Angelou.
- [31:30]
Maya Angelou
Thank you very much. Oprah Winfrey.
- [31:33]
Oprah Winfrey
I'm Oprah Winfrey. And you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe.
- [31:46]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Rate and review this podcast.
- [31:49]
Oprah Winfrey
Join me next week for another Super Soul conversation. Thank you for listening.
- [31:56]
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- [32:23]
Maya Angelou
What does possibility mean to you?
- [32:25]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
Um, that's a hard question.
- [32:28]
Oprah Winfrey
Something that you can strive for.
- [32:29]
Zepbound Medication Advertiser / Greenlight Advertiser
I'm able to do anything I set my mind to. You're confident in yourself and you believe in yourself.
- [32:34]
Maya Angelou
Stuff that you could achieve. I feel at Sada, anything is possible.
- [32:39]
Zepbound Medication Advertiser / Greenlight Advertiser
When you're more confident.
- [32:40]
Maya Angelou
Shoes are a huge part of that. They are the most important part of my style.
- [32:45]
Interviewer (likely Oprah Winfrey)
You can like express yourself in the right shoes. Anything is possible.
- [32:49]
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