Super Soul Special: Dr. Maya Angelou, Part 2: Best Advice She Ever Received

Summary

Episode Summary

Podcast: Oprah's Super Soul
Host: Oprah Winfrey
Episode: Super Soul Special: Dr. Maya Angelou, Part 2: Best Advice She Ever Received
Original Air Date: September 10, 2025

Overview

In this deeply personal and moving episode, Oprah sits down with legendary poet and author Dr. Maya Angelou for a candid and soulful conversation about aging, gratitude, the power of love, forgiveness, ancestry, and the best advice they have both received and given. Through warm storytelling and profound reflection, Dr. Angelou shares wisdom from her own life and the women who shaped her—her mother Vivian Baxter and her grandmother—offering timeless guidance on living with courage, embracing every season of life, and staying true to oneself.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Joy and Wisdom of Aging

• Maya on Reaching Her 80s:
  Dr. Angelou celebrates the privilege of aging, emphasizing self-care and savoring each year.
  • “Do it if you can. If you have a choice, choose the 80s.” (02:44)
  • On care and moderation: “Moderation in all things. And even moderation in moderation.” (02:50)
  • On gratitude for each birthday: “Every age, I've been grateful.” (04:39)

Gratitude as a Practice

• On Being Thankful—Even in Hardship:
  Oprah recalls a pivotal moment when Maya prompted her to respond to pain with gratitude.
  • “Thank you for everything...thank you for the phone call that told me I have the job. Thank you even for the phone call that told me I'm not wanted anymore.” (05:03)
  • Maya’s philosophy: “Because I know you have something better for me lined up.” (05:14)
  • Notable Moment: Oprah describes a vulnerable time:
    • Oprah: “You said, stop it. Stop it right now. I want you to say thank you.” (05:21)

Lessons from Mama Vivian Baxter

• The Power of Parental Love and Support:
  Maya describes her mother, Vivian, as fiercely loving and supportive, never shaming Maya even during difficult times.
  • Vivian’s words as Maya left home:
    • “With what you've learned from your grandmother in Arkansas and what you've learned from me, you know the difference between right and wrong. Do right...But don't let anybody change your mind. And then remember this, you can always come home.” (09:35)
  • On becoming a young mother: “We’re not going to ruin three lives. We’re going to have a beautiful baby.” (10:42)
  • On her safe return: “Whenever I'd go home…the world would throw me flat on my face…she would act as if the best thing that has ever happened...She never, ever made me feel that I had done the wrong thing.” (09:58)

The Transformative Power of Love

• “Love liberates.” (08:29)
• On familial support:
  • “Nobody, but nobody makes it alone.” (12:20)
  • “The love of a family, the love of one person, can heal...scars left of wounds left by a larger society, a massive, powerful society.” (12:23)

Words and Sources of Comfort

• Words as Power:
  • “Words are things and they're so powerful.” (14:14)
• On Divine Love:
  • “God loves me...It humbles me, this force which made leaves and fleas and stars and rivers. And you loves me. Me, Maya Angelou. It's amazing.” (15:35)
• Finding Solace:
  • Maya shares “Lessons in Truth” from Unity Church as a source of comfort. (15:13)

Ancestry and Collective Strength

• “I come as one, but I stand as 10,000.” (17:19)
  • Maya speaks on feeling the presence of her ancestors and the responsibility to their legacy:
    • “Wherever I am...my great grandmother stands there with me.” (17:07)
  • Oprah notes the personal power in this poetry during difficult moments: “I recited that to myself many times.” (17:33)

Being a Work in Progress

• Despite her iconic status, Maya maintains humility:
  • On being “en route:” “I'm further along than I was, but I'm still en route. I don’t know when I know enough...I know enough to try to live what I know now. That's a lot.” (18:03)

The Best Advice Given and Received

• For her son, and universally:
  • “In order to get a friend, you have to be a friend.” (18:41)
  • “There’s a place in you that you must keep inviolate...that may be the place you go to when you meet God...Back up. Not here.” (18:55-19:34)
  • “Say no when it’s no, say so, back it up. Because that place has to remain clean.” (19:41)
• On Forgiveness:
  • “The greatest advice is to forgive. I don't anoint it with anything. I just forgive it.” (20:31)
  • Oprah: “When you forgive somebody doesn't mean you want to sit down and invite them to your table.” (20:47)
  • Maya: “No, indeed not. I just mean I’m finished with you. Go away...I do have to protect myself.” (20:57)

Faith, Spirituality, and the Soul

• Maya’s Definition of God:
  • “If I was asked, say it in your definition of God in one word. It would be all. A-L-L. There is no place that God is not.” (21:27)
• On the Afterlife:
  • “What do you believe happens when you die?” Oprah asks.
  • “Oh, I go back to all. That's all. I’m in all right now. I just go back to all.” (22:12-22:22)
• The Meaning of Soul:
  • “The soul is a spirit which longs for all...The poetry, I write it so I can get closer to all...to tell so much truth, not facts, because facts can obscure the truth.” (23:04)
• Art as Prayer:
  • “Art is another form of prayer.” (24:15)
  • “You’re using God itself to help you to get to God.” (24:18)

Spirituality, Prayer, and Inner Peace

• Spirituality vs. Religion:
  • “Religion is like a map...spirituality for you means...Oh, surrender. I surrender all to all.” (24:33-24:52)
• Prayer:
  • “I am a praying woman...when I pray, something wonderful happens not just to the person for whom I’m praying, but also to me.” (25:03)
• Where Maya Feels Most at Peace:
  • “With myself. In myself, always...once I know I am centered in God. I live and move and have my being. I’m all right, Jack.” (25:45)
  • Oprah relates: “That is my living mantra for myself.” (26:52)
• On Love as a Life-Saving Force:
  • “I know for sure that love saves me and that it is here to save us all...It can raise the dead. It can make a mountain move. I know it.” (27:21-28:03)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Aging:

  • Maya Angelou: “If you have a choice, choose the 80s.” (02:47)

• On Gratitude and Resilience:

  • Maya Angelou: “Thank you for this day. Thank you for the light coming through that window. Thank you...for the phone call that told me I have the job. Thank you even for the phone call that told me I’m not wanted anymore. Thank you. Because I know you have something better for me lined up.” (05:03-05:22)

• On Parental Love:

  • Vivian Baxter’s advice: “Remember this when you cross my doorstep, you have already been raised...But don't let anybody change your mind. And then remember this, you can always come home.” (09:34)

• On Love and Healing:

  • Maya Angelou: “Nobody, but nobody makes it alone.” (12:20)

• On Inner Sanctity:

  • Maya Angelou: “There’s a place in you that you must keep inviolate...Nobody has a right to curse you or treat you badly. Nobody...That may be the place you go to when you meet God.” (18:55-19:34)

• On Forgiveness:

  • Maya Angelou: “I just mean I’m finished with you. Go away.” (20:57)

• On God:

  • Maya Angelou: “God is all. There is no place that God is not.” (21:27)

• On Being Carried by Ancestors:

  • Maya Angelou (quoting her poem): “I come as one, but I stand as 10,000.” (17:19)

• On Spirituality:

  • Maya Angelou: “Religion is like a map...spirituality...Oh, surrender. I surrender all to all.” (24:37-24:52)

• On the Power of Love:

  • Maya Angelou: “I know for sure that love saves me and that it is here to save us all...It can raise the dead.” (27:21-28:03)

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Important Timestamps

• Aging and Joyful Acceptance: 02:35 – 04:59
• Power of Gratitude: 05:02 – 06:20
• Mother’s Influence & Family Support: 06:38 – 12:15
• Words, Prayer, and Comfort: 14:14 – 16:40
• Ancestry and Collective Strength: 16:40 – 18:03
• Advice for Self and Others: 18:38 – 21:16
• Forgiveness: 20:31 – 21:16
• Views on God, the Soul, Death: 21:22 – 24:33
• Art/Prayer/Spirituality: 24:33 – 26:43
• Peace and Inner Anchoring: 25:45 – 27:17
• Final Wisdom on Love: 27:21 – 28:03

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Tone and Style

The episode is conversational, warm, and steeped in mutual reverence and affection. Maya Angelou’s voice carries authority, humor, and grace, while Oprah’s questions are searching, respectful, and often intimate—reflecting both professional admiration and deep personal connection. The tone is intimate, celebratory, and reflective, inviting listeners into a sacred exchange of life lessons and spiritual wisdom.

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Ideal For:
Listeners seeking wisdom on aging, self-worth, gratitude, forgiveness, the power of love, and spirituality—delivered with grace and authenticity by two of the most influential women of our time.

Transcript

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[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

I believe that one of the most.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Valuable gifts you can give yourself is time. Taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. Last time, Maya Angelou and I reminisced about some of the most meaningful moments of her extraordinary journey. She also spoke candidly and lovingly about her mother, Vivian Baxter, a charismatic, fierce dynamo of a woman. Their deep spiritual connection is the catalyst for Maya's latest book. It's called mom and Me and mom. At 85, Maya Angelou is now a great grandmother and is still taking the world by storm. In addition to her writing and full schedule of speaking engagements, she remains ever relevant, hip and up to date with her active and enlightening presence on Twitter. I'm one of legions of readers who've looked to Maya Angelou for comforting words, for courage. We soak up her wisdom, we marvel at her stamina and bask in the pure, contagious joy she takes in living.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Now, as we sit here, you're 85?

[Maya Angelou]

Yes ma'. Am.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes, as we are 85. What can you say about the 80s?

[Maya Angelou]

Oh my goodness.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Oh my God.

[Maya Angelou]

Do it if you can.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Do it if you can.

[Maya Angelou]

If you have a Choice, choose the 80s.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh my goodness.

[Maya Angelou]

I mean it. If you've been caring for yourself, you know, moderation and all things.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes.

[Maya Angelou]

And even moderation. In moderation. Don't get too much moderation. But do the tweet.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Don't even get too much moderation. Moderation and moderation.

[Maya Angelou]

That's right.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes.

[Maya Angelou]

But when you get into your 80s and you find that you're still looking kind of all right, and people still say, hello, hello, hello. You think, I'm glad I got this far. Yes.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Tell me what you've learned yourself about the aging, you know, because I think I learned this from you and what a wonderful mentor you have been for me for aging with grace and appreciation and heart and just embracing it. And I see so many women around me who, even as early as their 40s and some even in their 30s, they're trying to, you know, Botox themselves and, you know, change themselves and fighting it. Just fighting it. Fighting it all the way. And I always look at it as just as you were saying, my God, whatever age. I think about the people who didn't make it. I know as I sit here at 59, I think about all the people who didn't make it to 59. And so were you ever anxious about it?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Were you ever, oh, I can't believe I'm turning 40.

[Maya Angelou]

I can't believe I'm 50. I can't remember ever being anxious about it. Even when I was very young. I mean, I always wanted to. To reach that other age. As far as I can remember. I thought that if I could live to be 20.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes.

[Maya Angelou]

You know, it was going to be really wonderful. And then 25, and then 30, my goodness. I was just going to. It was a knockout. Every age, I've been grateful. I talked to you about this years ago.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes.

[Maya Angelou]

Is being grateful.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes, Grateful.

[Maya Angelou]

Just constantly get up in the morning. Thank you, Lord.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes.

[Maya Angelou]

Thank you for this day. Thank you for the light coming through that window. Thank you. Thank you that I'm breathing. Thank you. Thank you for everything. Thank you for the phone call that told me that I have the job. Thank you even for the phone call that told me I not want it anymore. Thank you. Because I know you have something better for me lined up. Thank you.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yeah. One of my life, seminal moment. I was. Had the farm in Indiana. You remember the farm?

[Maya Angelou]

Yes, I do.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

And I was in the bathroom because there were people at the house, and I closed the door, and I was sitting on the toilet seat and on the bathroom phone calling you, and I was crying hysterically about something. I don't remember who it was. And you said, you know, I was calling for Your open, empathetic, loving embrace. And you said, stop it. Stop it right now. I want you to say thank you. And I was saying, but you didn't hear me.

[Maya Angelou]

You didn't hear what I said.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

And you said, no, I want to say it. I want to hear you say it. And I went, thank you.

[Maya Angelou]

What am I saying thank you for?

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

And you said, because you know, God has put a rainbow in the clouds for you.

[Maya Angelou]

That's it? Yeah, that's it.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

That was life changing for me.

[Maya Angelou]

Yes, darling. Yes, darling.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

So when whatever it is hits, thank you. Thank you.

[Maya Angelou]

Because I know something better is on the road for me. So you fired me. Good on you and very good on me. Because what I'm going to get, darling, you would long for, darling. Yes, darling.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

So where did you get that? Where did you know that from?

[Maya Angelou]

A long way. From my grandmother, my father's mother, who raised me, and from Vivian Baxter.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Maya describes her mother, Vivian, as a dynamic woman, a spitfire with a larger than life presence. But she was someone Maya didn't really get to know until her teens. Unable to raise two young children on her own, Vivian Baxter had sent Maya and her brother Bailey to live with their grandmother in rural Arkansas. When Maya turned 13, she rejoined her mother in San Francisco. And while it took some time for them to get to know each other, it was obvious there was a lot of love between Maya and. And the woman she called Lady Vivian Baxter.

[Maya Angelou]

She loved me.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes.

[Maya Angelou]

And encouraged me to develop courage. In Stockton, California, where she lived and died.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes.

[Maya Angelou]

There's a park, I saw that. Named for her.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes.

[Maya Angelou]

Because she was that kind to everybody. Whites, blacks, Spanish speaking, Native American, Asia. She was that kind. And so the newest park in Stockton, California is called Lady Baxter.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

I love that. I love that.

[Maya Angelou]

And so that's on one end of town and a library on the other end of town is the Maya Angelou. It's amazing because the library was named for me because of Vivian Baxter.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Your mother paved that way.

[Maya Angelou]

That's right.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

She paved that way. Which we were talking about last week.

[Maya Angelou]

That's right. Every time I dare to do a good thing, I'm doing it in the name of my mother.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

You say that this book has been written to examine some of the ways that love heals and helps a person to climb to impossible heights and rise from immeasurable deaths.

[Maya Angelou]

That's true. Yes, it's true. Love does that. Love does that love liberates and love from a parent, and I mean from a mother or a father. Love, not sentimentality, not much but true love, love that gives you enough courage that you can say to somebody, don't do that, baby. And the person will know you're not preaching, you're teaching.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Maya Angelou developed an even deeper connection to her mother when she became pregnant at 16. She calls the birth of her only child, her son, Guy, the greatest blessing of her life. When Maya told Vivian Baxter she was going to have a baby, her mother didn't get angry. Instead, she welcomed the baby boy into their lives, even guiding the young mother as she struck out on her own.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

When Guy was only two months old, you moved out of the house. And I love the story about where your mother said to you as you were leaving. She says, all right, you go. But remember this when you cross my doorstep, you have already been raised.

[Maya Angelou]

Yes.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

With what you've learned from your grandmother in Arkansas and what you've learned from me, you know the difference between right and wrong. Do right and don't let anybody raise you. From the way you've been raised, know you'll always have to make adjustments in love, relationships, in friends, in society, and work. But don't let anybody change your mind. And then remember this, you can always come home.

[Maya Angelou]

She did. She did. And whenever I'd go home, the world would throw me flat on my face with this little baby I'm trying to raise and work and sing songs and dance, and I would go home to Vivian Baxter. She would act as if the best thing that has ever happened. She'd call her friends. Girl, you can't bet. You can't believe it. The baby is home. I'm going to cook this for her. So she loves Spanish rice. I'm gonna cook that for her. Listen, don't try to come over. I'm gonna have her to myself for at least three or four hours. Then you can come over. She never, ever made me feel that I had done the wrong thing.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

I know. And even at 16, when you became pregnant, she did not shame you. She said, we're gonna have this beautiful baby.

[Maya Angelou]

That's right. She asked me. She said, do you know who the father is? I said, yes. I only had sex with him one time, but then he's the only one. She said, all right. Do you love him? I said, no. She said, asked me, does he love you? I said, no. She said, we're not going to ruin three lives. We're going to have a beautiful baby. Wow. Yes, she did.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Wow.

[Maya Angelou]

And she loved my son. Yes. She was a knockout. Vivian back.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

She was a knockout. Tell me this. You've been my greatest teacher. Who's been your greatest teacher?

[Maya Angelou]

Probably my grandmother and my mother.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Really? Your greatest teachers?

[Maya Angelou]

My greatest teachers. I watched Grandmother Henderson and I watched Vivian Baxter. Vivian Baxter with this incredible anger whenever anybody tried to do her down. This same woman was so kind. I never in my life. She was very pretty. She never laughed at anybody, ever. I liked that in her. Uh huh. Because she had everything. She had money, she had beauty and health and she never laughed at anybody.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

And you didn't think of yourself as a pretty girl?

[Maya Angelou]

Oh no, I wasn't a pretty girl. There were pretty girls who had long hair and fair skin and that. And I was so tall. I was 6 foot and 15.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

So how did you learn to love yourself and.

[Maya Angelou]

Well, Bailey loved me. My grandmother loved me and my mother loved me.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Because another book that you wrote, that's a poem. Nobody makes it alone.

[Maya Angelou]

Nobody. But nobody makes it alone.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Nobody makes it alone Nobody makes it alone.

[Maya Angelou]

Everybody needs somebody and that's how love heals the love of the family, the love of one person can heal so it heals the scars left of wounds left by a larger society, a massive, powerful society.

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[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

You say words are things and that they're so powerful. So what words do you turn to for comfort?

[Maya Angelou]

Love. And. And again. See, I don't mean. I think love is that condition in the human spirit so profound that it allows us to forgive. And it may be the energy which keeps the stars in the firmament.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes.

[Maya Angelou]

I'm not sure. It may be the energy which keeps the blood running smoothly through our veins. I'm not sure. But it's something beyond the explanation. It can be used for anything. You can't explain any good thing. You can explain.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Absolutely.

[Maya Angelou]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Where do you go for solace? For comfort? Are there books that you read or. When Maya Angelou needs comforting. Yeah. What do you use?

[Maya Angelou]

I'm a student of unity, and there's a book called Lesson Unity Church. Unity Church. I took a course in unity about two years ago online, not to become a member, a minister, but just to understand more deeply. There's a book called Lessons in Truth.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Wow.

[Maya Angelou]

And in the book, there's a line which is, God loves me. And when I came to read it to my then mentor, Frederick Wilkerson, the late Frederick Wilkerson, I read God loves me. And he said, read it again. I said, God loves me. He said, read it again. Read it again. And finally I said, God loves me. It still humbles me, the. This force which made leaves and fleas and stars and rivers. And you loves me. Me, Maya Angelou. It's amazing. I can do anything and do it well. Any good thing, I can do it. That's why I'm who I am. Yes. Because God loves me. And I'm amazed at it and grateful for it.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Do you feel carried by the ancestors as I do? Do you feel carried by them?

[Maya Angelou]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yeah. When you said. When we talked last week about your crown has been paid for. Yeah. Put it on your head and wear it. Yes. Yeah. Do you feel.

[Maya Angelou]

Yes.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Do you feel that your grandmother and her mother before her. Yes. And great grandmother and great grandmother.

[Maya Angelou]

Do you feel who had been born a slave?

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Do you feel that you're carried by them?

[Maya Angelou]

Absolutely. And I'm responsible to them. So wherever I am, I stand on the stage in front of 10,000 people. My great grandmother stands there with me.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

That's the line in the poem Grandmothers that you wrote, One of my favorites. I come as one, but I stand as 10,000. Oh, my gosh. Have I used that line for myself? Internally? On many occasions.

[Maya Angelou]

Because that's who you are.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

I recited that to myself many times. I come as one, but I stand as 10,000.

[Maya Angelou]

That's it, you girl.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

The force of that.

[Maya Angelou]

That's it.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

The force of that.

[Maya Angelou]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

To know that none of us are alone.

[Maya Angelou]

No, ever. Because you've been paid for already, thank the Lord.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

In 2000, when you were 72, I interviewed you for the magazine, and I asked you if you considered yourself. And at the time, you answered, well, I'm en route.

[Maya Angelou]

That's true.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

And how would you answer that?

[Maya Angelou]

Now I'm en route.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

You're still in root.

[Maya Angelou]

I'm further along than I was, but I'm still en route. I don't know when I know enough. I know. I know a lot, and I'm grateful for that. I know enough to try to live what I know now. That's a lot.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Whoa. That's a lot.

[Maya Angelou]

But I still don't have it all.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

What do you think that you, Maya Angelou, everybody who quotes you and I quote you, and then they quote me. Do you? And all. What do you think is the best piece of advice you've given?

[Maya Angelou]

Well. Hmm. Well, I'm thinking that the best advice I've ever given, I hope, was that which I gave to my son when he was growing up. He said, I don't have any friends. How can I get some friends? And although I was very young, I told him two things. I told him, in order to get a friend, you have to be a friend. Be ready to be a friend. And also I told him, there's a place in you that you must keep and violate. You must keep it pristine, clean, so that nobody has the right to curse you or treat you badly. Nobody. No mother, father, no wife, no husband, nobody. Because that may be the place you go to when you meet God. You have to have a place that you say, stop it. Back up.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Not here.

[Maya Angelou]

You must not know. No, Absolutely. And that's one I told you 25 years ago.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes.

[Maya Angelou]

Say no when it's no, say so back it up. Because that place has to remain clean.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

And clear, and that has to be a Place within yourself.

[Maya Angelou]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

That is the best advice. I know everybody who's watching is gonna say, when people show you who they are, believe them. That's also very good.

[Maya Angelou]

It is good now.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yeah. But nothing tops having the place inside yourself that nobody else.

[Maya Angelou]

Nobody has a right to.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Has a right to invade.

[Maya Angelou]

No.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes.

[Maya Angelou]

And when the person comes with rude language to you or invasive language to you, you have to be able to say, back up. Not me. You don't. Don't you know I'm a child of God?

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

What is the best piece of advice you've ever gotten?

[Maya Angelou]

So many good things. I know. Yeah. I guess the greatest advice is to forgive. I don't anoint it with anything. I just forgive it.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

But don't we forgive? I've tried to let people know on the show, as you have taught me over the years, that when you forgive somebody doesn't mean you want to sit down and invite them to your table.

[Maya Angelou]

No, indeed not. I just mean I'm finished with you. Go away. Yes, yes, you go away. Now, I don't say go away and harm somebody else, but I do have to protect myself. I look like a ninny if I ask somebody else to protect me, and I'm not willing to protect myself.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yeah, that's one of the great lessons that you've taught me, too. You got to be willing to take care of this first.

[Maya Angelou]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Then you have enough to give to other people. What is your definition of God?

[Maya Angelou]

Ooh. All. If I was asked. Say it in your definition of God in one word. It would be all A L, L. I love that there is no place that God is not no place. In the prison, in the choir loft, on my knees. God is right there. God is all.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Are there many ways to get to him?

[Maya Angelou]

I think so. As many ways as there are. Absolutely. Like the ways, the highways that go to Rome. But all roads lead to God.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes. What do you believe happens when you die?

[Maya Angelou]

Oh, I go back to all. That's all.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

You go back to all?

[Maya Angelou]

Yes, I'm in. All right now. I just go back to all.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Go back to all.

[Maya Angelou]

Yeah. It's another. It's just another way of being in all.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes. And it's so interesting because you're the first person that said to me, in a way, I really got that there are as many levels. You said everybody thinks that there's just one way. There's not just one gate. There are as many gates as there are people. There's many gates. There are people. And then Dr. Eben Alexander's book and Proof of Heaven, he talks about all of the different multiple.

[Maya Angelou]

Exactly. I love that book, by the way. And then to find and to see him on Super Soul just knocked my socks off.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Amazing. What do you call the soul? What is it? What is the soul?

[Maya Angelou]

The soul is a spirit which longs for all. And that spirit then uses itself to create the blues and gospel music and pop music and hip hop. It's that spirit that longs, that says, let me say something which will help me, lead me to all. Whether the poetry is the poetry of Nikki Giovanni, Sonia Sanchez, or William Shakespeare or Maya Angelou, Eugene Redmond. The poetry, I write it so I can get closer to all. Let me tell so much truth, not facts, because facts can obscure the truth. You tell so many facts. The places where the people who times went, the reasons why, blah, blah, blah, never getting to the truth. So I want to tell the truth in my work and it will help me. Lead me closer and is.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Do you see? I remember Rainn Wilson was on Super Soul Sunday and he said that art is another form of prayer.

[Maya Angelou]

Of course.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yeah. You see that too.

[Maya Angelou]

Exactly.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes.

[Maya Angelou]

And that's why you try your best to say the right thing, the true thing, the good thing, because you're an artist and you're using God itself to help you to get to God. Oh, yes.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

How do you define spirituality versus religion?

[Maya Angelou]

Oh, religion is like a map, you know, it can help you to see how to get where you want to go. All it does is show you how to get there. It's only a map.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yeah. And spirituality for you means.

[Maya Angelou]

Oh, surrender. I surrender all to all.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

What does prayer mean to you? Oh, I know you're a praying woman.

[Maya Angelou]

I am a praying woman.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

You're a praying woman?

[Maya Angelou]

Yes, I am. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

So when you say to me, there have been times you've said to me, I'm praying for you and I'm praying with you, I know I'm going to be all right. I know, I know.

[Maya Angelou]

It changes things.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yeah. And you're connected.

[Maya Angelou]

Yes, I am. And I thank God for that. I know that when I pray, something wonderful happens not just to the person, a person for whom I'm praying, but also something wonderful happens to me. I'm grateful that I'm heard, because you.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Know, all hears it all. Where do you feel most at home or at peace with yourself?

[Maya Angelou]

With myself. In myself, always. When I'm in myself. That is to say, I'm at peace with you. I'm at peace with 40,000 cameras looming around this fire. I'm at peace in my bus. I'm at peace standing in front of an audience, as I did a couple of weeks ago for 10,000 people. I'm at peace once I know I am centered in God. I live and move and have my being. I'm all right, Jack. I'm all right now. When I lose it, as you do lose it from time to time, it is human. I think it's unfortunate, but there we are. So faith trembles and skids away. And so for that moment, I'm dangerous and I'm in danger.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes.

[Maya Angelou]

But as soon as I make the statement, in God, I live and move and have my being, I'm fine. I thank you, I'm fine.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

And I use that. I use that to calm myself. That is my living mantra for myself.

[Maya Angelou]

That's right, yeah.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

For in all difficult situations and in also good ones, I use in God, I move in heaven.

[Maya Angelou]

Amen. Because when you use it in good times, the all is pleased because it knows that you know that your good times are because of it.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Yes, that's right.

[Maya Angelou]

Yes. So you're just saying thank you.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Thank you. And what do you know for sure, Maya Angelou?

[Maya Angelou]

I know for sure that love saves me and that it is here to save us all. I know it's a sense. It's more close to us than air, more loud to us than hearing. I know it. I know that we can sit in it. Yes. Love, honey. And you know by that, I don't mean much or any. I don't mean romance or sentimentality. No, I do not. No, ma'. Am. I mean, something is so. It can raise the dead.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Can raise the dead?

[Maya Angelou]

Yes, ma'. Am. It can make a mountain move. I know it. I haven't done it, but I know it as surely as I'm sitting here.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Well, that's what you've given to me, all this.

[Maya Angelou]

Thank you, my darling. I love you and you know it. Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe rate and review this podcast. Join me next week for another Super Soul conversation.

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Thank you for listening.

[Whole Foods Market Announcer]

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[Walmart Wellness Event Announcer]

Honey, do not make plans. Saturday, September 13th.

[Maya Angelou]

Okay?

[Interviewer (Oprah Winfrey)]

Why?

[Maya Angelou]

What's happening?

[Walmart Wellness Event Announcer]

The Walmart wellness event. Flu shots, health screenings, free samples from those brands you like.

[Maya Angelou]

All that at Walmart.

[Walmart Wellness Event Announcer]

We can just walk right in, no appointment needed. Who knew we could cover our health and wellness needs at Walmart?

[Netflix Wednesday Promo Host]

Check the calendar.

[Maya Angelou]

Saturday, September 13th.

[Walmart Wellness Event Announcer]

Walmart wellness event. You knew?

[Maya Angelou]

I knew. Check in on your health at the same place you already shop.

[Expedia Announcer]

Visit Walmart.

[Maya Angelou]

Saturday, September 13th, for our semi annual wellness event, Flu shots. Subject to availability and applicable state law. Age restrictions apply. Free samples while supplies last.