Super Soul Special: Howard Schultz: Pouring Your Heart into Your Business

Summary

Oprah’s Super Soul Special: Howard Schultz — Pouring Your Heart into Your Business

Podcast: Oprah’s Super Soul
Host: Oprah Winfrey
Guest: Howard Schultz (Chairman & former CEO of Starbucks)
Date: February 5, 2025

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Episode Overview

This in-depth conversation between Oprah Winfrey and Howard Schultz traces the deeply personal and professional journey of Starbucks’ transformative leader. Howard Schultz shares the origins of his passion for business—rooted in family hardship—and the values-driven approach that led to Starbucks’ success, crisis, and renewal. The discussion explores leadership, company culture, vulnerability, and the search for meaning in one’s work, offering lessons for aspiring leaders and anyone interested in the intersection of business and soul.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Howard's Roots and Early Inspiration

• Howard describes growing up in Brooklyn projects, his father's struggles with blue-collar jobs, and the profound impact of seeing his father injured, jobless, and unsupported ([03:10]).
• Schultz: “I guess what I saw was the fracturing of the American dream...what happened as a result of that was the shame and the scars of feeling as if something was really wrong.” ([03:10])
• His ambition became to create “the kind of company my father never got a chance to work for.” ([03:44])

2. The Calling: Coffee as a Vessel for Service

• Oprah questions if Schultz’s calling was coffee itself, or the desire to serve people ([02:38]).
• Schultz shares it wasn’t coffee per se, but a drive to build something meaningful, using coffee as the vehicle for a greater purpose ([03:10], [04:28]).

3. Discovering the Starbucks Experience and Vision

• Schultz discusses his pivotal trip to Italy, witnessing the espresso bar culture—the social, community-focused role of coffee ([06:13]–[07:23]).
• He returned determined to bring that sense of connection—a “third place” between home and work—to America ([06:36]).
• The original Starbucks was a coffee retailer, not a café; Schultz pushed for a new model, facing initial resistance ([07:25]).

4. Overcoming Rejection & Launching Il Giornale

• Schultz details how his idea was turned down by Starbucks’ founders, prompting him to start his own coffee bar, Il Giornale ([07:47]).
• He struggled to raise funds, pitching to over 200 investors who couldn’t see the vision ([08:17]).
• Schultz: “You want people to pay two, three dollars for a cup of coffee with Italian names that no one could pronounce in a paper cup? And you want to give benefits to the employees?...No, no.” ([07:54])

5. Acquiring Starbucks and Building Culture

• When Starbucks’ founders decided to sell, Schultz found himself with an enormous opportunity but no money. He assembled investors and closed the deal ([09:43]–[10:13]).
• His vision: “A company that had a purpose...as managers and leaders, we would put our feet in the shoes of our people.” ([10:13])

6. Rapid Expansion and the Pitfalls of Success

• Starbucks grew from 11 stores to hundreds, then thousands worldwide, with Howard relinquishing the CEO spot in 2000 after feeling unfulfilled and distanced ([11:15], [13:57]).
• The podcast explores the perils of success—feeling unchallenged, bored, and spiritually adrift ([13:57]).

7. Losing—and Regaining—the Company’s Soul

• Schultz describes returning as CEO just as the recession hit, realizing Starbucks had strayed by prioritizing profits over purpose. A leaked memo sparked a public reckoning ([14:52]–[15:38]).
• Schultz: “The growth and the success of the company was covering up mistakes.” ([16:07])
• Oprah asks directly: “Had Starbucks lost its soul?” ([16:02]); Schultz says while the company wasn't soulless, “we were not going to recognize the company anymore.” ([16:07])

8. Return to Core Values: Transparency, Truth, and Training

• Schultz led the company back to its values, closing stores nationwide for retraining, emphasizing not just service but craft and purpose ([17:23]–[18:42]).
• Schultz: “The currency...of leadership today and building a company...is transparency and truth.” ([18:13])

9. Sustaining Soulfulness at Scale

• With Starbucks' vast reach, Oprah presses on how to keep "soul" intact ([19:22]).
• Schultz: “The challenge we have is how do you get big and stay small? ...It was built literally through the experience and through the lens of our people.” ([19:42])

10. Defining Success and Purpose

• Schultz and Oprah discuss sustainable success.
• Memorable Schultz quote:
  • “Success is not sustainable if it's defined by how big you become.” ([20:03]; Oprah reads from the book.)
  • "The only number that matters is one—one cup, one customer, one partner, one experience at a time." ([20:23])
• Schultz: “It's not what you do, it's why you do it.” ([20:47])

11. Personal Connection and Taking Business Personally

• Schultz recounts how criticism of Starbucks "poster child" for excess affects him ([21:55]), stating:
  • “I take everything about Starbucks very personally. Too personally.” ([22:01])
  • “You can't build something unless you're going to take it personally. And I want our people to take it personally.” ([22:06])
• He shares a moving story about a Starbucks barista who donated a kidney to a customer, illustrating deep community ties ([28:31]).

12. Principles of Leadership

• Schultz’s four guiding principles, as highlighted by Oprah ([29:25]):
  1. Don’t be threatened by people smarter than you ([29:37])
  2. Compromise anything but your core values ([30:02])
  3. Everything matters ([30:22])
  4. Leadership is sharing a vision that others want to join ([31:25])
• Vulnerability in leadership: Schultz recounts apologizing and crying in front of employees upon returning as CEO; “Vulnerability is transparency...the currency of leadership is transparency.” ([32:07])

13. Culture of Trust and Long-Term Thinking

• Schultz stayed firm against cutting employee benefits during crisis, despite pressure from shareholders ([37:33]–[38:14]).
  • "If you cut out the health benefits ...that would have cut out the foundation for your belief system, and we wouldn't be here today..." ([38:17])
  • “It's very difficult to lead when it's not convenient. And that was an inconvenient time to stand up for our people.” ([38:22])

14. Personal Philosophy and National Concerns

• Family remains his grounding force; raising responsible, grounded children in privilege ([32:53]).
• He's deeply concerned about American polarization, the state of the American Dream, and the need for “authentic, truthful leadership” ([35:13]–[35:59]).
• Oprah asks if he’ll go into politics; Schultz says he intends to keep serving from his current platform but will continue speaking out ([36:39]–[37:26]).

15. Life Lessons and Inspirational Quotes

• “Success is best when it’s shared.” ([37:37])
• “Do not let anyone...tell you your dreams cannot come true...believe in your dreams and dream big. And then after you've done that, dream bigger.” ([38:48])
• Favorite quote: Churchill’s “Never give in. Never give in. Never give in. Never.” ([39:23])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Quote | Speaker | Timestamp | |---|---|---| | “I guess what I saw was the fracturing of the American dream.” | Howard Schultz | 03:10 | | “The success of Starbucks...is the achievement of the balance between profitability and a social conscience. That’s the soul of the company.” | Howard Schultz | 19:01 | | "Success is not sustainable if it's defined by how big you become. ...The only number that matters is one." | Oprah (reading Schultz) | 20:03 | | “You can't build something unless you're going to take it personally.” | Howard Schultz | 22:06 | | “Leadership is creating a vision and creating followers because you’re not pushing people to come with you. You’re bringing them along on the journey.” | Howard Schultz | 31:30 | | “Vulnerability is transparency, and what I said earlier is the currency of leadership is transparency, and you’ve got to be truthful.” | Howard Schultz | 32:16 | | "If you cut out the health benefits ...that would have cut out the foundation for your belief system, and we wouldn't be here today..." | Oprah, paraphrasing Schultz | 38:17 | | “Do not let anyone...tell you your dreams cannot come true. ...Believe in your dreams and dream big. And then after you've done that, dream bigger.” | Howard Schultz | 38:48 | | “The world needs authentic, truthful leadership.” | Howard Schultz | 39:55 | | "My job is to serve others." | Howard Schultz | 40:29 |

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Howard’s Childhood & Inspiration: 03:10–04:28
• Discovery of Italian Coffee Culture: 06:11–07:23
• Pitching Il Giornale & Facing Rejection: 07:47–08:17
• Acquisition & Vision for Starbucks: 09:43–10:36
• Company Expansion & Spiritual Crisis: 13:57–16:07
• Return to Core Values & Transparency: 17:23–18:42
• Maintaining Soul at Scale: 19:22–20:47
• Defining Leadership & Values: 29:25–32:38
• Starbucks Barista Kidney Donation Story: 28:31–29:24
• Corporate vs. Social Responsibility: 37:33–38:22
• Advice & Inspirational Quotes: 38:48–39:23

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Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• Purpose Over Profits: Schultz’s journey underscores the belief that true success in business is built on compassion, trust, and striving for more than just profit.
• Resilience and Tenacity: Rejection, crisis, and even ridicule never stopped Schultz from pursuing and defending his vision.
• Leadership as Service: Openness, vulnerability, and servant leadership are central, and Schultz emphasizes leadership's human dimension—what matters most is the “one” in every transaction and interaction.
• Business as a Force for Good: Companies have a responsibility to uphold social consciousness, especially in turbulent times.
• Dreams and Authenticity: Schultz's personal story inspires listeners to honor their roots, pursue big dreams, and never compromise their core values.

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For anyone interested in leadership, organizational culture, or the potential for businesses to make a difference, this episode is both a practical case study and a heartfelt masterclass.

Transcript

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[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time. Taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. Fortune magazine calls Howard Schultz one of the greatest entrepreneurs of our time. But this self made billionaire has never forgotten where he came from. Howard was born in 1953 in Brooklyn, New York to Fred and Elaine Schultz. Raised in the housing projects, he says he watched his father struggle to hold down a series of blue collar jobs, never able to find meaning or fulfillment in his work. The family's financial struggles became even worse when Howard's father was injured on that job. He had no health insurance and received no workers compensation. Unable to work, the company let his father go. That made a lifelong impression on Howard, who says he never imagined he would one day be in a position to run a company a very different kind of way. But he knew that people deserve more respect than his father had received.

[Howard Schultz]

Here we go.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Here we go. I've absolutely talked a lot over the years about following your calling and honoring that calling. And this show. Super. That's a main part of the conversation that we have weekly about honoring that passion. And I'm always fascinated by the myriad of callings or passions that people have. And yours was coffee. How do you honor the calling of coffee? And did you know that it was coffee or was it your desire to serve?

[Howard Schultz]

I did not know it was coffee, but I think it could have been many other things as long as I had a passion and a love for it. I grew up in the projects in Brooklyn. My dad was a blue collar worker, never made more than $20,000 a year. Had a series of very bad jobs. In 1960 he was a delivery driver, delivering and picking up before the invention of Pampers. Cloth diapers fell on a sheet of ice in March of 1960. I walked into the apartment, coming from school, he's in a cast from his hip to his ankle. And subsequently we find out, or I observe as a young seven year old boy, no health insurance, no workman's compensation, and he's fired out of the job. And I guess what I saw was the fracturing of the American dream. And what happened as a result of that was the shame and the scars of feeling as if something was really wrong. Watching my parents go through terrible times. And I think that galvanized me early on to realize that there has to be something better. And along the way, not the calling of coffee, but the calling to try and build something that in a sense would be the kind of company my father never got a chance to work for.

[Oprah Winfrey]

To create a culture that would honor the people in a way that your father was never honored or respected.

[Howard Schultz]

So when we began Starbucks, what I wanted to try and do was create a set of values, guiding principles and culture in which no matter who you are or where you came from, you would feel as if the company shared the success with you. And that was Starbucks was the first company in America to give comprehensive health insurance and ownership to every single employee who worked more than 20 hours, becoming the first company to give those benefits to part time workers.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It is a fascinating story how all this came to be. By his late 20s, Howard was heading up the sales force for a kitchenware company when he noticed a small shop in Seattle was ordering an unusually large number of European drip coffee makers. It was called Starbucks Coffee, Tea and Spice. And Howard was intrigued by this little shop that was doing such big business. So he went to see it for himself. He could smell the coffee even before stepping forward, foot in the door. And once he did, Howard says he instantly felt like he was home. He was so enthralled, he convinced the company's owners to hire him as their marketing director and he moved cross country to Seattle. And then the turning point. A business trip took Howard to Italy, where coffee is an art. There he Discovered espresso bars and watched groups of friends gather, connecting over tiny cups of coffee. You are in these, like, cute little espresso shops, and you see the guy behind the counter with. They were called baristas. Baristas, yeah, called baristas. And at the time you had your. Did you have your coffee shop yet?

[Howard Schultz]

No, no. I was an employee of Starbucks.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay.

[Howard Schultz]

So I didn't. I didn't. People think I'm the founder of Starbucks, but I was an employee of Starbucks when they had four stores.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Howard Schultz]

I was sent to Italy to do a trip for Starbucks and came back with this feeling that the business that Starbucks was in was the wrong business.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because at the time that you were employed by Starbucks, they just sold coffee beans and they actually did not sell a cup of coffee.

[Howard Schultz]

That's correct.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Howard Schultz]

And so what I wanted to bring back was the daily ritual and the sense of community and the idea that we could build this third place between home and work in America.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Can you take me back to that little coffee shop? And the feeling that you had there because something. Yes. Like you. Absolutely. When I was reading it, it felt like an epiphany happened. Yeah.

[Howard Schultz]

I was out of my mind.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Had you gone in for a coffee?

[Howard Schultz]

Yeah, like anyone else.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Howard Schultz]

But I walked in and saw this symphony of activity and the romance and the theater of coffee, meaning people gathered around and also coffee being at the center of conversation, how social it was, and the sense of community. And that is what spoke to me, and that's what I wanted to bring back to America.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, so then you go back to your.

[Howard Schultz]

I go back. I'm so excited. I can't wait to tell the founders of the company of Starbucks, who are great people, who gave me a chance. But they said no.

[Oprah Winfrey]

They said, no, we don't want to do this. We're going to sell it.

[Howard Schultz]

Yeah. We don't want to change the business model of Starbucks. So I was frustrated, and over a period of a year or two, you started business. I decided to leave.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But you started your own coffee.

[Howard Schultz]

Yeah, I left. I left and started an Italian coffee bar business called Ildranoli.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Howard Schultz]

Named after the Italian newspaper in Milan. I was trying to. I had no money, okay. So I had to raise money from investors. I talked to anyone I would meet. Nobody would give me money. And they would say, wait a minute. You want people to pay two, three dollars for a cup of coffee with Italian names that no one could pronounce in a paper cup? And you want to give benefits to the employees? You want me to invest in that company. No, no.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But Howard would not give up. He started going door to door, pitching his coffee bar concept to potential investors. And though he was turned down, listen to the super solars more than 200 times, he kept pressing on and finally raised enough money to open the first first Il Giornale in 1986.

[Howard Schultz]

I knew that the equity of Il Jonali at the time was not going to be advertising and marketing. It was going to be the people who serve the coffee.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And how did you know that? Because you'd seen that in Italy with the guy.

[Howard Schultz]

And how did you. I just instinctively knew that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay.

[Howard Schultz]

You know, I don't have a business degree, by the way. I didn't go to business school. I graduated with a degree in communications. So this was all new to me. But it was passion, love and desire.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, so the passion was what you felt, a passion for love.

[Howard Schultz]

Passion was unbridled enthusiasm, desire, and the fact that I must do this to.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Create that atmosphere that you felt in that confidence.

[Howard Schultz]

So then I got lucky.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Howard Schultz]

I mean, but you don't believe in luck.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Nor do I.

[Howard Schultz]

No, I don't.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Ok.

[Howard Schultz]

But I did get lucky.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But we don't believe in luck. But okay, you were ready in that moment.

[Howard Schultz]

Luck is the residue of design.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's right. But it's also, you're prepared for that moment when something shows itself.

[Howard Schultz]

Okay. So the founder of Starbucks, who I have great respect for even today, came.

[Oprah Winfrey]

To me and had worked for.

[Howard Schultz]

Yeah. Came to me and said, I've decided to sell the company. And he said, I'm going to sell Starbucks for $3.8 million. That was the good news. The bad news is, Oprah, I did not have one dime.

[Oprah Winfrey]

The consummate salesman, Howard drummed up investors, impressing them with his vision for the next chapter in Starbuck. Within a few weeks, he'd raised all the money he needed. And as he says, life would never be the same.

[Howard Schultz]

So we merged Starbucks and Illinois in August of 87 with 11 stores and a dream to create a different kind of company. A company that had a purpose, a company that achieved this balance I talked about, and a company that would, in a sense, as managers and leaders, we would put our feet in the shoes of our people.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's beautiful.

[Howard Schultz]

Well, it's true. It's true.

[Oprah Winfrey]

With Howard Schultz at the helm, the Starbucks brand took off. What began in 1987 with six stores and a roasting plant quickly grew to more than 650 stores in less than 10 years. Howard's intention was to create a community, a destination between work and home. And his dream was coming true. Business was booming, profits were rising, and by 2000 Starbucks was opening seven new cafes a day. You were doing store after store after store. You were riding that wave. Oh my God, what did that feel like?

[Howard Schultz]

We were on a magical carpet ride.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Was that success dazzling?

[Howard Schultz]

It was unnerving.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

The success was unnerving, Howard says, because he felt a shift. He began to feel bored, unchallenged, and at times even depressed. After much soul searching, In April of 2000, he decided to step down as CEO while remaining chairman of the board. As he watched the company's startling growth, he says he felt like an outsider looking in. By 2007, he sensed something was missing, though. And in the fall of that year, Howard began to seriously consider returning as CEO to bring the company back to its roots. But just as Howard resumed that role, the recession hit and the company found itself in trouble. For the first time in the history of Starbucks, sales were down and the stock price dropped. Howard says he had a sobering realization that his company had stepped away from its core values.

[Howard Schultz]

The bloom was off the rose a little bit and we were doing wrong, the wrong thing and we were measuring and rewarding wrong behavior. And in a sense, how so? Wall street and the pursuit of profit became, in a sense, our reason for being. And that's not the reason that Starbucks is in business, that you started it originally. Yeah. And so I felt we were compromising our purpose, our behavior. And I wrote this memo In Valentine's Day 2007, an internal memo. And I sent it out and about an hour later, someone knocked on my door and said, Howard, you should put on the tv. I said, what do you mean put on cnbc? And I was watching my life unfold on television because that memo was leaked.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Was leaked. Did you feel betrayed?

[Howard Schultz]

Yeah, I did. I did. But the memo was not self critical because I put myself in the mix and said, even though I was not the CEO at the time, I'm as culpable as anybody else. Something's wrong.

[Oprah Winfrey]

The memo was saying something's wrong and we should turn it around. But it was admitting to the rest of the world that something was wrong because you had all your critics. We all have all of our critics.

[Howard Schultz]

But we had lost Our way.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You'd lost your way. Had Starbucks lost its soul?

[Howard Schultz]

I wouldn't say it lost its soul, but if things continued, we were not going to recognize the company anymore. And in a sense, the growth and the success of the company was covering up mistakes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay.

[Howard Schultz]

And that can happen very easily.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Especially when you've had so much success. So much success. And wasn't it at the time when it started to lose its way, your vision was, your vision got bigger and bigger and you wanted 40,000 stores all around the world?

[Howard Schultz]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Howard Schultz]

There were certain things that we said and certain things that we did that was measuring growth as a reason for being and we got into trouble.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Would you say that Starbucks was in a spiritual crisis?

[Howard Schultz]

Yes, I would. And I would say that. And I also say that most of the problems we had were self induced mistakes. And I stood in front of the entire employee base of the company, our partners, and said, apologize for as leaders that we had let them and their families down, but we were going to return the company back to its glory days.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, so in those days where you knew the company had lost its way.

[Howard Schultz]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Was in its own spiritual crisis. Did you debate whether or not you should jump back in or not? I know.

[Howard Schultz]

First of all, I never planned to come back to Starbucks. But again, this is about love.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because you'd stepped down as CEO.

[Howard Schultz]

I did. This is about love, this is about passion, this is about responsibility, and this is about leadership. And there was no second thought whatsoever. I came back to lead the company back, but I also needed help from others and I needed people to believe. And we started doing things that were quite unorthodox, uncharacteristic of a company that was in trouble, especially during the financial crisis. And I just, I couldn't believe that all of the years that we put in place to imprint the values of the company were being compromised by yield and profit. So I asked our people to close the stores to retrain people not on training of service, but retrain people on making coffee. How could that be? But it was a galvanizing event and it was truthful. And I think we were doing things that were profit driven. That's not why we're in business. We're in business to exceed the expectations of our customers. And the only way we can do that is to exceed the expectations of your people first. And I think the currency that I would say about leadership today and building a company of any size or industry is transparency and truth. And once I saw that, I couldn't ignore it. I had to Say to our people, we have to start over.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, so the book is called How Starbucks Fought for Its Life Without Losing Its Soul. And I learned so many things about you, about business, about tenacity, about hanging in, about rebuilding. And I suspect that, you know, I guess until I read this, I was thinking, I never thought of a company that has a soul.

[Howard Schultz]

I don't think every company has a soul. I think to build a great, enduring company, a company must have a conscience. You must have a core purpose beyond making a profit. The success of Starbucks the last 40 plus years is the achievement of the balance between profitability and a social conscience. That's the soul of the company, having that conscience.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, so how do you maintain a sense of soulfulness with 19,000 stores and 247,000 employees? You know, because, you know, the critics say it's become a corporate empire. How do you maintain that? That the soul of it?

[Howard Schultz]

The challenge we have is how do you get big and stay small? How do you maintain the intimacy with our people and our customers? And the brand of Starbucks was not built in a traditional way through traditional marketing or advertising. It was built literally through the experience and through the lens of our people.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, I love this. This is my favorite.

[Howard Schultz]

Go ahead.

[Oprah Winfrey]

When you talk about success, you say success is not sustainable if it's defined by how big you become, which is, like, amazing. When I'm reading that, that you, who has 247,000 employees, Large numbers that once captivated me, 40,000 stores are not what matter. The only number that matters is one. One cup, one customer, one partner, one experience at a time. We had to get back to what mattered most.

[Howard Schultz]

So if I can build on that, I would say in anything we do, any endeavor, it's not what you do, it's why you do it. It's not what you do, it's why you do it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Ain't that the truth?

[Howard Schultz]

So when you ask me, how do you keep it going this big, it's conveying to people why we're doing the things we're doing. Why do we give health care to our people at a cost of $250 million a year? When I have institutional shareholders saying, if you cut that out, you'd be much more profitable, but it would fracture the trust and culture of the company. We recognize that we are not going to be a great enduring company if we turn our back on what's going on in America. And there's things going on in America that really concern me. 42 out of 50 states today are in a Budget crisis, significant cuts in social services, the likes of which we haven't seen in 30, 40 years. And we're in every community in America and I think we've got to stand up for people. The role and responsibility of a corporation today and the future of America are tied together.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I also read that you were kind of offended by the fact that the culture, people in the culture were using Starbucks as sort of the, the poster child for excess. You know, put down that four dollar latte.

[Howard Schultz]

Let me say this. I take everything about Starbucks very personally. Too personal.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Like when you see other people with a cup of coffee from someplace else, what do you chase them down and say, why didn't you go to.

[Howard Schultz]

Well, I don't chase them down anymore because I might get arrested, but it bothers me. And I think you can't build something unless you're going to take it personally. And I want our people to take it personally. So can I talk about New Orleans?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, let's talk about New Orleans.

[Howard Schultz]

Okay, so we're in the middle of the crisis, the financial crisis in America. Starbucks sales are awful. Our stock price is.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're looking at those comps every week and you can't even believe it.

[Howard Schultz]

I don't even want to open up my email in the morning because they were so bad. And the truth is, if it continued at the rate we were going at, Starbucks was not going to make it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

With stock prices and employee morale at an all time low, Howard knew he needed to take action. And he had a plan. Believing his managers were the heartbeat of the company, he gathered 10,000 of them from around the globe in New Orleans for four days of intense team building. The goal, to inspire his people to fight for the future of their company.

[Howard Schultz]

So I stood up in front of 10,000 people and I shared with them that if we continue like this, we're not going to make it and our families aren't going to make it. And so the question is, can we and can you take it personally? What does it mean not to be a bystander? And what does it mean to be personally accountable for everything that happens in your store? Now, New Orleans was not the reason we turned things around, but we left New Orleans with a tidal wave, a tidal wave of energy. The company was so galvanized, it never got any worse than that. And now the last two years for Starbucks, record revenue, record profit and record stock price.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So it's so interesting that at that time so many people would have been paralyzed by the fear of what could happen to their business. A lot of people watching feel that you paralyzed by fear, but you seem to be a person. Actually you say in the book you're motivated by fear.

[Howard Schultz]

Well, I have a. What I also say in the book is that even today, as successful as I've become, I still have a fear of failure. I'm still this kid from Brooklyn who has the scars and the shame of being a poor kid from the projects, but I'm motivated by it and I'm.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And humbled by it.

[Howard Schultz]

Well, I think the key element of the culture of Starbucks is to be a performance driven company through the lens of humanity and to be humble and hungry at the same time.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Did you. Did. Was there a moment though, Howard, where you thought you might not be able to turn it around?

[Howard Schultz]

Honestly?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Never. Never?

[Howard Schultz]

No. Because I believed so much in our people. No, there wasn't. There wasn't. And I had to convey that. I mean, does self doubt come in? Of course. But I believed so much in the human experience of Starbucks people that they were the ones that. Who built the company and they were the ones who would turn it around.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Home so when you go into a Starbucks store and you see that vision that you held when you were in Milan at this restaurant, you see the community there and you see people there on their computers and they're there with their kids and they're there with their friends. And what does that feel like to you?

[Howard Schultz]

I think about my parents. I'm gratified beyond ways that I could describe it. I'm obviously very proud, but I also feel like I'm a humble servant of people throughout the company who are relying on me and the responsibility we have to keep this thing going in the right way.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Do you all have regular meetings where, you know, where you teach people how to be as friendly, as happy, as connected? Because one of the things that moved me the most was the story of the woman in the book who ended, who has such a connection to the customer that she serves that she ends up giving her kidney?

[Howard Schultz]

Yes. Now, I think if I told that story without the context, you would think a, it's not true. And if it is true, it's weird. Yeah, it's not weird because the frequency that people come into a Starbucks store and the relationship they end up having with the person who makes the coffee is one of great intimacy. And when I heard that story, I rushed to Tacoma, Washington to meet her and said, I've never seen anything like this. She was a match and she gave her kidney. It was just incredible. Now I have lots of stories that. But this is not. It's not prescribed. It's the culture and values of the company. But it's also important. I'm sitting here saying how good we are. We're not a perfect company. We have issues, challenges, we make mistakes. But we have to solve these things through the lens of doing things the right way and telling the truth.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Transparency.

[Howard Schultz]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And I know that you're guided by your own values and your own set of principles. There are four that you talk about that I love. Don't be threatened by people smarter than you. Can you speak to that?

[Howard Schultz]

You can't build any kind of organization if you're not going to surround yourself with people who have experience and skill base beyond your own. Only as if those people have like minded values.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's the key to starting anything.

[Howard Schultz]

That's the key. And I think when you discover perhaps that these people do not have those values, then you have to have a very quick conversation. And if they don't demonstrate that kind of behavior. Not everyone deserves to be on the team.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Compromise anything but your core values. That's what you say.

[Howard Schultz]

Short term success is not going to build long term value for anyone. And we live in an age where everything is based on the short term. And I think what we're trying to do and what we've demonstrated is very.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You had to fight that in your own culture.

[Howard Schultz]

We did. It's hard to do.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love this one. I love this one. Everything matters.

[Howard Schultz]

You're in a business where I think that is very true. And I think once you compromise that, it's not one thing, it's like a thread. You just keep pulling it from the sweater and all of a sudden longer and longer, everything matters. Everything matters. And I think imprinting that in the organization, that discipline, that process and that belief that everything matters becomes a way in which the company is now organized.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So you've instilled within your people, your company. This is like your. This is. First of all, you are a partner. So this is your business, and you treat everything from the counter to the way people are served to how they're served, as. As if it were your own.

[Howard Schultz]

Yes. Now, that's not easy to do, but I think when I'm pressed and people say, what is the secret to Starbucks success? We're sourcing the best coffee in the world. We have great real estate, great design, but it's human behavior, human condition, and they have brought this to life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

How do you define true leadership?

[Howard Schultz]

Leadership is creating a vision and creating followers because you're not pushing people to come with you. You're bringing them along on the journey because they think there's something in it for them. And you are committed to that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I would agree with that. And what was surprising to me is something that I'd learned a long time ago because I've actually made a whole living out of vulnerability. And Brene Brown, who wrote the book Daring Greatly, you know, we've done life classes together. But you say it's important as a leader to be vulnerable. Where'd you learn that?

[Howard Schultz]

Well, when I stood up in front of people and I apologized, started crying that first week, which is not what.

[Oprah Winfrey]

CEOs do, especially men.

[Howard Schultz]

I think we're taught as men to, you know. But I think vulnerability is transparency. And what I said earlier is I think the currency of leadership is transparency, and you've got to be truthful. So I don't think it's. I don't think you should be vulnerable every day.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Right.

[Howard Schultz]

But there are moments where you've got to share your soul and your conscience with people and show them who you are and not be afraid of it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. Your success comes with great wealth, too. And I know you feel a sense of responsibility. How do you raise ambitious, kind, and gracious children when they have had access to everything? How do you keep them grounded?

[Howard Schultz]

Well, first off, I'd say the honesty and the truthfulness that I talked about in raising a business, I think it's more important at home than it is in the corporate world. So our kids have understood from day one that this is a privilege and a responsibility, and you have to earn it. And nothing is going to be given without service and responsibility. And both our kids are working. Both our kids are contributing to society. And I think that is probably the proudest thing I can say. And I give their mother, Sherry, all the. All the credit in the world, because it's her is the glue in all this.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So you're known, obviously, to the world as CEO and chairman of Starbucks without that title. That label. Who are you?

[Howard Schultz]

I'm this kid from Brooklyn. You know, it never leaves me. I. I want to honor my parents who are both gone and we lost my mother just five weeks ago.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm sorry. But she got to see your success. Feel it and live it.

[Howard Schultz]

I think we want to make our kids proud. I want to make a significant difference in the lives of people who are being left behind.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What would your father.

[Howard Schultz]

He wouldn't believe it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. What would he say about your success? Because he died.

[Howard Schultz]

He died in 87.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, yeah.

[Howard Schultz]

So he didn't see any of it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

He didn't see any of it.

[Howard Schultz]

I think he would have been absolutely blown away, astonished, and he would not have understood it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

He would have been amazingly proud, don't you think?

[Howard Schultz]

Yes. Yeah, my father would have. Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Been amazingly proud. So what matters to you most now? I mean, what. First of all, what's next? And then what matters?

[Howard Schultz]

I'm not going anywhere in the short term, so I've told the board that I'm here for the next few years. So there's nothing immediately next. I'm deeply concerned about the direction of the country. I'm deeply concerned about the polarization. I'm deeply concerned about the fracturing of leadership in the country. I'm deeply concerned about the American dream and the American promise, the cuts in social services and all the people being left behind and how this is all going to play out.

[Oprah Winfrey]

How do you think it's going to play out, really, sitting where you are right now?

[Howard Schultz]

I think America needs a transformation, honestly. I mean, I have great faith in the idea of America. I have great faith in the future of America. But faith is not a strategy.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Howard Schultz]

If Washington continues to fight over things that are so trivial and de minimis, when we are facing such structural problems, things are not going to go well.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Are you frustrated by the polarization?

[Howard Schultz]

Yes. It's awful. So here's the thing. Martin Luther King, 50 years ago called people to the mall. He called them. America's waiting to be called. People are waiting to be called. Somehow we've allowed the power and responsibility to be given to people who are not walking in our shoes. And we have to get that power back. And I think that the answer is people are waiting to be called.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love that. I love that. And the question is, who will call them?

[Howard Schultz]

Well, we'll see.

[Oprah Winfrey]

We'll see. All right. I have to ask you this.

[Howard Schultz]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You've talked about what matters and making change in America and being dissatisfied with what's going on in Washington.

[Howard Schultz]

The Politics. I know where this is going.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You know where it's going? Yeah, yeah. Have you thought about running for some kind of office, stepping into politics, or is the Starbucks platform enough?

[Howard Schultz]

You know, over the last couple of years, as I've put myself in the middle of certain conversations, this question has come up. Not because I intended it to come up, but people have naturally asked me that. And the truth is, I think I can do a lot more in the position I'm in, but I'm going to continue to be in the mix in a way that will be respectful and civil. And I don't know where it's going to go. I don't know. But as I said, I'm at Starbucks for the next couple of years, but I am a concerned, passionate citizen. We'll see.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I like that. So what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn?

[Howard Schultz]

Where do you get these questions from?

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's Super Soul Sunday.

[Howard Schultz]

Come on. Success is best when it's shared. Absolutely. And not only did I have to learn that, but I had to teach it to others. And I have multiple constituencies. So in the heart of the crisis, when a shareholder, a large shareholder, got on the phone with me and said, howard, I want you to cut out the health care benefit because you'd save money. You'd save money. And this is a time in America where every company is doing it. And I said to him, respectfully, I'm not going to do that. And if you feel we must, you probably should sell your stock.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Whoa.

[Howard Schultz]

I wouldn't do it. And if I did it, we wouldn't.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because if you cut out the health benefits of your employees, then that would have cut out the foundation for your.

[Howard Schultz]

Belief system, and we wouldn't be here today because the reservoir of trust in the entire company would have been broken. And I think when you're really tested, I mean, it's very easy to be a leader when you've got the win at your back. It's very difficult to lead when it's not convenient. And that was an inconvenient time to stand up for our people.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

[Howard Schultz]

Do not let anyone, no matter who it is, even if it's your parents, tell you your dreams cannot come true. And I think, because your parents wouldn't have believed this. No. But I speak to young people on college campuses. I always end with, believe in your dreams and dream big. And then after you've done that, dream bigger. And I think America is still this unbelievable place of Extraordinary entrepreneurial stories that can only happen here.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. So do you have a favorite quote?

[Howard Schultz]

Well, the quote I would think about is going back to Churchill and at the height of Europe being conquered and at the height of England perhaps being taken over by Germany, he gave this extraordinary speech and he was an amazing orator. And it was never give in. Never give in. Never give in. Never. There it was.

[Oprah Winfrey]

There it is. Finish the sentence. The world needs.

[Howard Schultz]

The world needs authentic, truthful leadership.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I believe in America, love is family. Coffee is.

[Howard Schultz]

Coffee is Starbucks.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, that's good. That's good. Of course. Of course it is.

[Howard Schultz]

Innovation is not embracing the status quo ever.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's a good one. I'm imprinting that. Okay. My job is.

[Howard Schultz]

My job is to serve others.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's been a pleasure.

[Howard Schultz]

I love it. I love it. Good.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you.

[Howard Schultz]

Thank you. I loved it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That was great. I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe. Rate and review this podcast. Join me next week for another Super Soul Conversation. Thank you for listening.

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[Howard Schultz]

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[Howard Schultz]

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[Howard Schultz]

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Why?

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[Howard Schultz]

You like all that at Walmart?

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[Howard Schultz]

Check the calendar.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Last year.