Super Soul Special: Jordan Peele: Can Film Change Our Culture?

Summary

Oprah's Super Soul: Jordan Peele – Can Film Change Our Culture?

Podcast: Oprah’s Super Soul
Host: Oprah (with Gayle King as interviewer)
Guest: Jordan Peele
Release Date: November 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features a riveting conversation between Gayle King and filmmaker Jordan Peele, as selected by Oprah for her Super Soul series. Together, they delve deeply into the cultural phenomenon of Peele’s breakout film, Get Out, exploring the transformational power of cinema, representation of Black experiences in film, and the challenges and triumphs on Peele’s journey as a pioneering Black director. The discussion is candid, insightful, and rich with humor, vulnerability, and cultural commentary.

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Key Themes and Discussion Points

The Genesis of Get Out

• Years in the Making: Peele describes the long process of developing Get Out. It began as a personal creative hobby—crafting “my favorite movie that I’d never seen before.”

  “I was the first audience for this film, and it really was about getting to go home… and watching my favorite movie in my mind.” (Jordan Peele, 03:05)

• Inspired by Gaps in Representation: Gayle draws a parallel to Toni Morrison, who wrote books she wanted to read, underscoring the need for Black perspectives in storytelling.
• Love/Hate Relationship with Horror: Jordan talks about his affinity for horror as a vehicle for working through societal and personal fears.

Fear and the Horror Genre

• Processing Collective Fears: Peele argues that horror allows audiences to confront suppressed fears in a communal and “safe” way.

  “Horror movies… are kind of the safest place to experience our fears. And I feel like we kind of make personal progress by not turning our backs on our own fear.” (Jordan Peele, 04:13)

• Audience Impact: Peele and Gayle discuss how reactions from Black audiences, in particular, added layers to the film’s meaning and impact.

Cultural Reception and Oscar Recognition

• Surprise and Validation:
  • Peele expresses both surprise and joy at the film’s enormous success, box office performance, and multiple Oscar nominations—including Best Screenplay, Best Director, and Best Picture.
  • He describes the emotional moment learning of Daniel Kaluuya’s nomination:

    “When I found out that Daniel Kaluuya… got nominated, that’s when I was, you know, tears started streaming down my face.” (Jordan Peele, 08:54)

• Legacy and Representation: Peele recounts how Whoopi Goldberg’s Oscar win inspired him as a child, and how he hopes his own success can inspire others:

  “I immediately thought of… Whoopi at that moment. And… wow, this is now about all the people out there who this is sending that same message to.” (Jordan Peele, 10:59)

• Authenticity: Success, Peele says, is deeply connected to authenticity in art:

  “I think you don’t get to be truly successful and experience it on the level of joyousness unless it’s coming from an authentic place.” (Gayle King, 11:22)

Identity, Outsidership, and Representation

• Growing Up Mixed-Race: Peele shares his experiences navigating racial identity as a mixed-race child, feeling like an outsider, and how cinema became a window into African American experiences for him.
• Vulnerability on Screen:
  • Peele connects iconic film images of Black male vulnerability, from Glory to Get Out, highlighting the rarity and importance of such portrayals.

  “There’s a… lack of images in pop culture where Black men are allowed to be vulnerable, where we’re allowed to be afraid… To me, it’s also connected to the fact that our fears… aren’t being heard. They’re being silenced.” (Jordan Peele, 16:58)

• Audience Empathy: Get Out creates empathy by making Black characters the focal point and placing all audiences in their shoes.

  “This was a way for … a lot of white people to experience the world through the Black perspective. And you white people watching the movie don’t identify with the white people in the movie. You identify with Chris, which means you’ve already done something really important and valuable.” (Jordan Peele, 21:35)

Navigating Hollywood and Risk

• Barriers and Fears: Peele reflects on the industry’s skepticism about a film foregrounding Black experience and exposing racial microaggressions, and his own fear that the film might be suppressed.

  “Every step of the way, I held this idea that there’s a good chance someone’s going to step in and say, nope, you can’t do that.” (Jordan Peele, 22:37)

• Alternate Endings: He reveals that he filmed a much darker original ending for Get Out, but changed it in response to shifts in the cultural climate:

  “By the time the movie was ready to go… it really felt like people needed a hero and needed for me to help fulfill the escapism of the movie as well.” (Jordan Peele, 27:22)

The Power and Limits of Film as Cultural Change Agent

• Film as Empathy Machine:

  “Any film is a journey through someone else’s eyes and feeling the emotion of that character. So yeah, I think there’s a reason story is the most powerful weapon for change... a weapon against the violence, against the bigotry, against hatred, against the… policies.” (Jordan Peele, 32:53)

• Legacy and Artist’s Pressure: Gayle asks if Peele feels pressure after such a successful debut—he insists staying true to his vision is paramount.

  “I will continue to make the movies that I want to see… If I want to see it, I have to have trust that other people will. And if they don’t, I have to accept that that’s what it is.” (Jordan Peele, 29:01)

• Receiving Success: Peele reflects on the strangeness and sometimes discomfort of fame, grounding himself by not “drinking his own Kool Aid.”

  “Don’t get too… Don’t watch your own jump shot here. Don’t drink your own Kool Aid.” (Jordan Peele, 34:25)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the Black Audience Experience:
  “They're like, 'kill the bitch right now.' Kill the bitch.” (Gayle King, 05:58)
  “My favorite line overheard… is the dude just went, 'Oh, this bitch out here drinking milk.'” (Jordan Peele, 06:11)

• On Creating Empathy:
  “You white people watching the movie don’t identify with the white people in the movie. You identify with Chris, which means you’ve already done something really important and valuable.” (Jordan Peele, 21:35)

• On Artistic Authenticity:
  “You don’t get to be truly successful and experience it on the level of joyousness unless it’s coming from an authentic place.” (Gayle King, 11:22)

• On Taking in Success
  “Part of it feels unnatural. Part of it makes you grapple with this idea of like, okay, I don’t... Don’t get too... Don’t watch your own jump shot here. Don’t drink your own Kool Aid.” (Jordan Peele, 34:25)

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Timestamps of Major Segments

• 00:57 – Introduction and welcome
• 02:02 – Jordan describes conceiving Get Out
• 03:26 – Peele’s love for horror as a way to process fear
• 05:17 – On the film’s unexpected cultural impact
• 06:11 – Audience reactions and the “milk and Fruit Loops” symbolism
• 07:10 – Oscar nomination announcement and emotional response
• 10:46 – Whoopi Goldberg’s influence on a young Peele
• 14:27 – Peele on growing up mixed-race and feeling like an outsider
• 16:37 – The importance of vulnerability in Black male representation
• 20:28 – Bringing Black cultural experiences—and microaggressions—to the screen
• 21:35 – How Get Out fosters cross-racial empathy
• 22:37 – Peele’s fears of Hollywood pushback
• 25:49 – The original, darker ending of Get Out
• 28:53 – Discussing creative pressure after a staggering debut
• 31:21 – Peele’s early directing dreams and barriers faced
• 32:31 – Can film change culture?
• 34:12 – The challenge of receiving enormous recognition and success
• 35:12 – Conclusion and gratitude

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Conclusion

This episode is a masterful exploration of the intersection of art, identity, and social change. Jordan Peele’s transparency about his creative process, personal history, and the social currents that influenced Get Out make this conversation a rich resource for anyone interested in how film can both reflect and reshape culture. Listeners, regardless of background, will come away with a deeper appreciation for the importance of representation and the courage it takes to tell the stories that need to be told.

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Transcript

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[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.

[Gayle King]

I believe that one of the most.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Valuable gifts you can give yourself is time. Taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now.

[Gayle King]

Please welcome Jordan. First of all, I just gotta say I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of you. And the reason I am is because that was a bodacious thing you wrote and, and directed. And I just think to have the courage, first of all, a lot of people have a vision and an idea, but to have the courage to follow that through and then to walk into a studio meeting and say, this is the movie I want to do. Were you a little scarred?

[Jordan Peele]

I mean, so many. There were years put into conceiving the movie.

[Gayle King]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

But I didn't necessarily ever realized that it would actually ever get made. So at the point when someone, you know, I pitched it and I said, let's make this movie. Yeah, it was kind of like a, oh, oh, now we're in. We're in. Let's.

[Gayle King]

So when you say it was years in conceiving it, I love this. I love the way writers minds work. Did you get little pieces of it and then write that down and then other pieces of it and write that down?

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, it was kind of like that. It was a hobby for me. It was this idea of designing my favorite movie that I'd never seen before.

[Gayle King]

Yes. That is so interesting because I remember interviewing Toni Morrison years ago and she said that she started writing because there wasn't A novel that she felt really spoke to the African American experience in a way that she wanted to read. So she started writing the novels that she wanted to read.

[Jordan Peele]

Right. I was the first audience for this film, and it really was about getting to go home at the end of a day. You know, some of this time I was working on Key and Peele and getting to go home and watching my favorite movie in my mind. And so that was, you know, many years.

[Gayle King]

Were you a friend of the horror genre before?

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, Yeah. I just love it, and I think I love it so much because it is a way to address our fears. And I love the theatrical experience of it as well, because I'm the opposite.

[Gayle King]

I don't. I don't want to be scared.

[Jordan Peele]

Well, yeah, most of us don't. I mean, it's such an unpleasant emotion.

[Gayle King]

Yes.

[Jordan Peele]

That it tends to get suppressed.

[Gayle King]

But you like it?

[Jordan Peele]

Well, I like. Here's the thing. The fact that we don't deal with our fears because it's so unpleasant doesn't.

[Gayle King]

Mean that they're gone.

[Jordan Peele]

Doesn't mean they're gone. And then when those fears come back, when you hold something down, it explodes in.

[Gayle King]

In a different direction, actually.

[Jordan Peele]

Yes.

[Gayle King]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

So I feel like horror movies and the experience of going to a theater and sitting with a family that is the audience and going on these rides together is kind of the safest place to experience our fears. And I feel like we kind of make personal progress by not turning our backs on our own fear.

[Gayle King]

Okay, I get that. So you made this movie, you got the money together. I read that it was like 4.5 million. Or let's say, let's say $5 million.

[Jordan Peele]

Let's just say 5.

[Gayle King]

Let's just say $5 million. You get to $5 million and, you know, that's a significant amount to have to get people to support you on. But then the box office keeps growing and growing and growing. Please tell me you got a nice back end that you're going to get that money, Right?

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, sure, sure. What's back end?

[Gayle King]

Because everybody keeps saying, oh, my God. So here's the thing. You had no idea at the time that it was going to be explosive in terms of a cultural phenomenon.

[Jordan Peele]

This is the moment I was not prepared for. This is it.

[Liberty Mutual Ad Narrator]

Thank you.

[Gayle King]

That's so nice of you.

[Jordan Peele]

I did know something big was going to happen. I thought there was a chance I'd get run out of the country, but I didn't know that. Certainly the black audience had been asking for this movie.

[Gayle King]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

And Been waiting for this movie. So I knew that those of you.

[Gayle King]

Who are white, you should go and see it with a black audience.

[Jordan Peele]

It's true.

[Gayle King]

Cause Gayle said she had seen it, like, at a screening or something, and then she went with a black audience, and it's a completely different experience.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Gayle King]

They're like, kill the bitch right now. Kill the bitch.

[Jordan Peele]

My favorite line overheard for those of you who've seen it, is the dude just went, oh, this bitch out here drinking milk.

[Gayle King]

Which I understand also means something. Right? The drinking of the milk versus and the eating of the cereal separately.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah. There's a sort of aesthetic play of the, you know, the Fruit Loops being, you know, this colorful bowl separate from the glass of milk.

[Gayle King]

Yeah. You know, I would not have gotten that had Gail not explained that to me. I mean, there are some things that I probably would have missed had I not had some.

[Jordan Peele]

You know, I think one of the reasons this movie found such a so much success is because it's a fun movie to watch with somebody who hasn't seen it.

[Gayle King]

Yes.

[Jordan Peele]

Cause you just can kind of be like, mm.

[Gayle King]

Which I watched with Gail, who was doing that.

[Jordan Peele]

She's looking at you.

[Gayle King]

Important part coming up right now. No, Gail, Gayle, important part coming up right here. Don't miss this.

[Expedia/Birch Lane/Indeed Ad Narrator]

That's great.

[Gayle King]

So all of this talk about it and now Oscar nominations. Where were you when the nominations were being read?

[Jordan Peele]

I was at my house. Yes. You know, I live in Los Feliz, California, in Los Angeles, and I just. One person from Los Angeles in the house. Thank you. I was being kind to myself. Didn't wake up, didn't set the alarm to.

[Gayle King]

But you gotta get up at 5:30.

[Jordan Peele]

In the morning if you wait. Yes. And look, it wasn't the time. It was the emotional distress of watching.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay.

[Gayle King]

So there had always been so much talk about it. And I have to say, honestly, I was just hoping for you. I really was just hoping for you. You're the one I really wanted this year. And so I was satisfied. I was happy with the first nomination. I was happy with the first one, which was screenplay. Yeah. Yeah. Everything begins with the words. And I was like, yes, good. So what did you do when you first heard that?

[Jordan Peele]

I woke up, like, five minutes after it was all done. So I got it all at the same time.

[Gayle King]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

Which was very strategic. Cause I didn't want to torture myself by, like, waiting on the thing. I very quickly started crying.

[Gayle King]

Really? Okay. So. Cause you all know he got Best Screenplay, Best Director, Best Picture, best Picture. The first African American to be honored with the trifecta there. Yes. So screenplay comes up. You're happy.

[Jordan Peele]

I'm happy when I found out that Daniel Kaluuya, the lead in the film, got nominated.

[Gayle King]

Yes, I know.

[Jordan Peele]

That's when I was, you know, tears started streaming down my face.

[Gayle King]

Cause you were crying for him.

[Jordan Peele]

For him.

[Gayle King]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

It's such a conflicting process, sort of this awards thing, as, you know, where it's hard to be celebrated. It's hard to celebrate your own work when you feel like you need to do more work and, you know, I should be writing now.

[Gayle King]

Well, you also put yourself in this position of, well, just being able to do the work is such a gift, you know, to be able to have that expression for yourself, but then to have other people recognize, not just through the box office, which is the best recognition possible when you all go to see it, but to other people to recognize that. That there's something else here, that there are layers of goodness here, there's layers of artistic expression here in the writing, in the directing. And also overall, as best picture, it's remarkable.

[Jordan Peele]

And the moments after I realized this was really happening, I had this overwhelming sense of that this thing is bigger than me and this is bigger than this work. And I. You know, when I was maybe 12 years old or something. So Whoopi Goldberg won for Ghost. For Ghost, Best supporting Actress. And I remember watching that at home.

[Gayle King]

Yep.

[Jordan Peele]

Fantastic performance. And feeling, for many reasons, you know, going into it, feeling like she was kind of the underdog. It was a comedic role. And I remember she got on stage accepting her award and said something to the effect of. For everybody out there who thinks you can't do it or doubts yourself or I don't know if she said it, or this is what I got, or looks like me and feels like there are walls and ceilings.

[Gayle King]

So she was speaking to you.

[Jordan Peele]

She was speaking to me directly to your heart. You can do it.

[Gayle King]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

You can do it. And I internalized that. And when the news came that I was nominated, I immediately thought of that.

[Gayle King]

Of Whoopi.

[Jordan Peele]

Of Whoopi at that moment and that moment. And I thought of, wow, this is now about all the people out there who this is sending that same message to.

[Gayle King]

You can do it. You can do it.

[Jordan Peele]

You can do it. If you put enough love towards something.

[Gayle King]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

I believe that it will work. And, you know, brains help too.

[Gayle King]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

But.

[Gayle King]

I think it's love. And also what you just expressed that you've always appreciated the horror genre. I think you don't get to be truly successful and experience it on the level of joyousness. Unless it's coming from an authentic place. It's coming out of something that's really real.

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[Gayle King]

You'Ve said that Chris's character in get out actually represents the fear and anxiety that we all have sometimes when you're an outsider. When you were growing up, did you feel like an outsider?

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, you know, I had a really amazing support system, amazing family, single mother who is here tonight somewhere. I don't know.

[Gayle King]

She's a mother.

[Jordan Peele]

I don't know. Oh, there she is. Okay, Mom. So I got so much support. At the same time, I did feel like an outsider. I identified with the outsider. It's hard to know exactly why, but I think part of it is connected to racial identity. You know, I'm mixed and there's part of the mixed experience you especially early on. It's kind of confusing.

[Gayle King]

You're trying to figure it out.

[Jordan Peele]

Well, the world's trying to figure you out.

[Gayle King]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

You know, the world is trying to put you in a box. A box. They're literally asking you to check on the standardized test when you're six years old. What are you? White? African American? Other. So in the beginning of my school tenure, I put other down as I grew up. And as I got older in elementary school, I began to identify as African American, which was comforting to me because it's what I am. I'm a black man. And yeah.

[Gayle King]

You get applause for being a black man.

[Jordan Peele]

Well, you know, it's. But the whole thing made me, you know, set me on this trajectory of exploring and examining what the, what it means to be black in this country.

[Gayle King]

So did you at some point go to your mom, your white mom, and say, mom, I'm a black man?

[Jordan Peele]

You know, I, I don't think it ever was that dramatic. She probably would have giggled at the man part.

[Gayle King]

Mom, I'm a black man.

[Jordan Peele]

I'm a black man.

[Gayle King]

Mom.

[Jordan Peele]

You know, the first movie I ever saw in a theater very young was a revival of Showboat. And so my father wasn't around. A good amount of my African American experiences growing up were through cinema. So the Movie glory was very meaningful.

[Gayle King]

To the one tier.

[Jordan Peele]

The one tier, yeah. Which I think is connected, actually. That moment of Denzel Washington with this defiant tear is, I think, connected to the same reason the now iconic image of Daniel has resonated.

[Gayle King]

Ah, there's this. Well, now, yeah, there's a connection.

[Jordan Peele]

There's a connection. I think there is a sort of deficit or a lack of images in pop culture where black men are allowed to be vulnerable, where we're allowed to be afraid, where we're allowed to show fear. And that, you know, the fact that everyone latched onto that, to me, is also connected to the fact that our fears, the injustices surrounding blackness in America aren't being heard. They're being silenced by a sort of systemic failure.

[Gayle King]

And what you did with this film was allowed audiences to experience rooting for the black guy, even though normally, under other circumstances, they might have not been rooting for the black guy who ends up doing what he does in the film. So you have allowed the conversation to be had and heard in a way that people don't have to feel threatened. Because, you know, in all those years of doing the Oprah Show, I think we probably did three or four hundred different shows about race. And there's inevitably a moment where the white people start to feel like, oh, they're talking about us. Is this going to be okay? So, but I think once you have the experience of the film with humor, with the horror, with all of that. For example, I want to show the party scene. A clip of the party scene.

[Jordan Peele]

Oh, look, it's the greens.

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[Jordan Peele]

Chris, nice to meet you.

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[Gayle King]

Oh, that's quite a grip. Thank you.

[Jordan Peele]

You too, man.

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[Jordan Peele]

Once, two years ago. I wasn't very good.

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[Jordan Peele]

Oh, you kidding?

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[Jordan Peele]

Way, I would have voted for Obama for a third term if I could. Best president in my lifetime. Handstand.

[Gayle King]

Interesting, because anybody who's grown up black in a lot of white situations. When I was in Milwaukee, I went to school. Nicolet. Hello, Nicolet. And I was. Did you go to. But anyway, Nikolai High School. And I was one of two black kids in the school at the time. And every time I'd get taken to somebody's home, they would always ask me, their parents would always ask me if I knew Sammy Davis Jr. And after a while, I just started saying, yeah, he's my cousin, because I didn't want to disappoint them that I didn't know Sammy Davis Jr. And Gayle, who grew up in Turkey, her father was working overseas. And she told everybody Martin Luther King. Gayle King told everyone Martin Luther King was her uncle. Uncle Marty.

[Jordan Peele]

No, Uncle Marty.

[Gayle King]

Uncle Marty got in trouble because her father came to school one day and the teacher said, oh, we're so sorry about what's happened to your brother being jailed. And he's like, you talking about my brother Alfred? I don't know. Anyway, anyway, so everybody has been in that experience, right? Does that come from a real experience? Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

And this is, I think, part of the experience I had never seen portrayed in film. And there was this feeling I had while coming up with this that all I know is there are horror movies that explore every real world. Horror.

[Gayle King]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

Except this one, save for maybe Night of the Living Dead, which does it in a very allegorical way. But the fact that the modern African American experience and our fears and our horrors and our uncomfortable interactions in the form of that expression, to me just meant there's a missing piece of the conversation here. And I think what happened with this scene where the microaggressions are kind of the horror and the creepy thing is black people would say, look, hey, finally. Thank you. That's my life story.

[Gayle King]

And the white people would say, what? Have there been different responses?

[Jordan Peele]

Sometimes I get like a. Yeah. It made me wonder, have I done that? But your Barack Obama impression is really good. I'm like, you just did it.

[Gayle King]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

No, but, yeah, there's a little introspection going on. But I think what this. The power of story and why this movie ended up being important is because when you have an actor like Daniel, when you have a character that a protagonist, that the audience becomes the protagonist. So this was a way for, I think, a lot of white people to experience the world through the black perspective. And you white people watching the movie don't identify with the white people in the movie. You identify with Chris, which means you've.

[Gayle King]

Already done something really important and valuable. Yes. Back, please. Yeah. Yes. So I remember there was this headline in the New Yorker that said, can a film be too inflammatory for its own good? And I understand you were in the beginning, somewhat skeptical that the studio might not actually release the film. Right?

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah. You know, every step of the way, I held this idea that there's a good chance someone's going to step in and say, nope, you can't do that.

[Gayle King]

You've gone too far.

[Jordan Peele]

For all the reasons why we haven't seen this movie before, all the little checkpoints, the racist notion that a movie targeted to an African American audience with violence in it could incite violence, the fact that there really aren't very many white characters that aren't evil in the movie I thought could be a reason that this wouldn't make the final if.

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[Gayle King]

Was there something you wanted to put in the movie but were too hesitant about going all the way there? Although you went pretty far all the way there.

[Jordan Peele]

Well, I shot another ending. I don't know if you know this. There's another ending.

[Gayle King]

I do know this. That's why I'm asking.

[Jordan Peele]

I have a feeling. Okay, so there was.

[Gayle King]

Yeah, I asked that question to get you to say exactly what you mean.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay, wonderful. Well done. Well done. The original ending for the movie that we shot was that the cops show up and it's the cops and they take him and it goes to six months later, he's in prison. His friend Rod, who's been with him the whole movie in spirit.

[Gayle King]

Yay. Rod was. That is a great actor.

[Jordan Peele]

Little Rel Howery.

[Gayle King]

So believable.

[Jordan Peele]

Can I tell Lil Rel Howery that he's a great actor?

[Gayle King]

Yes, please, please. Yes.

[Jordan Peele]

Now he has to do every movie I ever asked him to do.

[Gayle King]

So great.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, he really is in a fantastic stand up comedian.

[Gayle King]

We all know that guy. We all know that guy. Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

He was the person who when he came in, it was like, that's the guy I wrote.

[Gayle King]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

And you can tell, you can feel it. He is us in the movie.

[Gayle King]

Yep.

[Jordan Peele]

But the original ending, he shows up after not showing up and saving his friend and he's trying to solve the case sort of retroactively.

[Gayle King]

I'm so glad you ended it the way you did. And so aren't we glad? Because we just wouldn't be able to take. That would have been too much.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, I agree. And you know, the climate that I wrote the movie in was the Obama era. And the movie was meant to address this post racial lie, this idea that we're past racism. And so I wanted the ending to be a dose of sobering reality as to what would happen at the end of this movie. By the time the Movie was ready to go and. And I had that ending shot. There had been more conversation about race. There had been, you know, Black Lives Matter was bringing attention to racial injustice. Trump was starting to roll. And so it really felt like people needed a hero and needed for me to help fulfill the escapism of the movie as well.

[Gayle King]

Do you feel, though, it's so interesting, because I remember reading this article as I was ending my show, and it was an article in Vanity Fair about Michael Jackson. And his friends were commenting saying he did Thriller and then spent the rest of his life chasing Thriller. And even though he sold 20 million albums from BAD or 40 million, whatever the number was, he was comparing everything in his life still to the end, to Thriller. So how do you now avoid the trap of your first film? First directing, first written becomes this phenomenon.

[Jordan Peele]

Now that you mention it. I don't know. I don't.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

You know, I will continue to make the movies that I want to see.

[Gayle King]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

First, if I want to see it, I have to have trust that other people will. And if they don't, I have to accept that that's. That's what it is.

[Gayle King]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

But for me, the biggest reward of all of this, for me, besides this right here, has always been. Has always been the fact that I get to make another movie. So I don't want to let that become an unpleasant experience because. Because this one was so successful.

[Gayle King]

Yeah. So you don't feel the pressure at all?

[Jordan Peele]

No, I don't feel it too extreme.

[Gayle King]

Pressure, because I think that what you just said is the value of why we're having these conversations. You do the work that you want to see, and if it's coming out of a true space for you, and that's first and foremost. And then if other people relate to it, that's fine. If they don't. Did you hear from President Obama? Did you hear from Mr. Obama?

[Jordan Peele]

President Obama?

[Gayle King]

President Obama. Did you hear from President. Did you hear from President Obama? You know, did he see it?

[Jordan Peele]

I don't know. So Malia was in the screening when we screened it at Sundance. I haven't heard from Obama. You know, I imagine he would say, you know, I would have voted for me a third term, too, if I could, but I would love to. I did get to meet him because of Key and Peele.

[Gayle King]

Yes.

[Jordan Peele]

And Keegan, as Luther, got to accompany him at the White House.

[Gayle King]

Correspondence.

[Jordan Peele]

Correspondence. That was a moment. But, man, I want to hear what Obama has to say about this. Can you make it happen?

[Gayle King]

I will ask him. Yes. I will do that. Yes.

[Jordan Peele]

The one person.

[Gayle King]

I'll tell them to call you.

[Jordan Peele]

The one person I will tell.

[Gayle King]

I think there are many people who could. But I will tell them to call you. Who do you. I actually will do that. Actually will do that. I heard that you put your dreams of directing on hold many years ago because there simply weren't enough opportunities actually for African American directors. And that you understood that it wasn't your time yet. Right?

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, I don't think I consciously was grappling with it that way at the time, but in retrospect, I wanted to be a Director so bad. 12, 13. This is all I wanted. Like I said, I had that moment with Whoopi. Whoopi where I felt, okay, listen to that. And yet I moved away from my dream. I consciously made a decision. I think part of it was just good old fashioned fear of failure.

[Gayle King]

And also, you were so successful.

[Jordan Peele]

Well, and, you know, the acting route was this sort of immediate response from the audience, and I felt like I was doing it well. But I do think a part of it was I internalized the sort of lack of inclusion in the director space and felt like it's hard for any director to get to make a movie. And for a black director to convince people to give you money to make a movie, that's a start.

[Gayle King]

And then get nominated, get nominated for an Oscar. Are you surprised at the ability of film, in particular as an art form, to affect and impact our culture?

[Jordan Peele]

It's the most effective form for me personally.

[Gayle King]

Can it change people's minds?

[Jordan Peele]

Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a piece of art that's made with a huge collaboration of artists. It is a collective experience. I think the theater experience is a collective experience. Bunch of strangers come into a room, sit down and leave with this common experience.

[Gayle King]

Right.

[Jordan Peele]

And I think it builds empathy. Any film is a journey through someone else's eyes and feeling the emotion of that character. So, yeah, I think there's a reason story is the most powerful weapon for change. I mean, I hesitate to call it a weapon, but I do think of story as a weapon against the violence, against the bigotry, against hatred, against the, you know, policies. And it goes back to the Bible.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Gayle King]

And it's so powerful because it allows people through the story to have connection. And connection brings empathy. And that's how we get to see that we're all more alike than different. Okay. On the night of the Oscars, will you be able to take it all in?

[Jordan Peele]

I don't know. I don't know. It's hard because you, as you know, it's like you're kind of preparing what to say, but you're also trying to like acting like you're not, acting like you're not, but you want to be.

[Gayle King]

Prepared so you don't get up there and just.

[Jordan Peele]

But I'm going to make the decision to enjoy myself.

[Gayle King]

Have you been able to enjoy it thus far? Have you been able to take it in? Have you been able to receive how the audience, all of them, how the audiences have received you and this film? Have you been able to receive it?

[Jordan Peele]

It's easier sometimes than it is others because there's a bit of attention that almost feels unnatural. Do you know anything about that?

[Gayle King]

A little bit.

[Jordan Peele]

Part of it feels unnatural. Part of it makes you. Makes you grapple with this idea of like, okay, I don't. Don't get too. Don't watch your own jump shot here. Don't drink your own Kool Aid. And so it's hard when there's this.

[Gayle King]

Well, let me just say something to you because I've been through a little bit of this, and I would say the fact that you are at a space in your own heart where you can say to your ego, don't believe your own jump shot means you're already there. Just to be able to ask the question means you're grounded enough to know.

[Jordan Peele]

Thank you.

[Gayle King]

You're doing all right.

[Jordan Peele]

Thank you.

[Gayle King]

You're doing all right, and I just wish you the very best. We're all going to be rooting for.

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Get out.

[Gayle King]

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for this time and the conversation.

[Jordan Peele]

Amazing.

[Gayle King]

You're there. I love you. You're already there. Love you back. Thank you. You're already there.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm Oprah Winfrey, and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe. Rate and review this podcast. Join me next week for another Super Soul conversation.

[Gayle King]

Thank you for listening.

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[Gayle King]

Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

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[Jordan Peele]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

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[Gayle King]

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