Super Soul Special: Oprah at the Apollo, Part 1: Jordan Peele, Salma Hayek Pinault and Trevor Noah

Summary

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Oprah's Super Soul Special: Oprah at the Apollo, Part 1

Guests: Jordan Peele, Salma Hayek Pinault, Trevor Noah
Date: November 5, 2025
Host: Oprah Winfrey
Venue: Apollo Theater, Harlem, NYC

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Episode Overview

From Harlem’s iconic Apollo Theater, Oprah gathers three influential creators—filmmaker Jordan Peele, actress/activist Salma Hayek Pinault, and comedian/writer Trevor Noah—for candid, moving conversations about courage, identity, creative responsibility, justice, and the individual journeys toward authenticity that shape their work in the world.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Jordan Peele: Vision, Identity, “Get Out,” and Being an Outsider

Timestamps: 00:59 – 13:58

• On the Courage to Create "Get Out"

  • Oprah opens with praise for Peele’s vision and bravery, highlighting his Oscar nominations.
    • “That was a bodacious thing you wrote and directed… it takes courage to follow through.” — Oprah (01:14)
  • Peele describes the years of development as “designing my favorite movie I’d never seen before.” (03:11)
    • “I was the first audience for this film.” — Jordan Peele (03:40)

• On Representation and the Outsider Identity

  • Peele reflects on his life as a mixed-race person:
    • “Part of the mixed experience, especially early on, is kind of confusing… the world is trying to put you in a box.” (05:01-05:29)
    • “I began to identify as African American, which was comforting to me… I’m a black man. And, yeah.” (05:27)

• The Cinematic Portrayal of Black Vulnerability

  • Peele talks about the power in showing a black man’s vulnerability on screen, inspired by earlier films:
    • “There’s a lack of images in pop culture where black men are allowed to be vulnerable, where we’re allowed to be afraid.” (07:17)
    • He links movie moments—“Denzel Washington with this defiant tear”—to Daniel Kaluuya’s iconic performance. (06:59)

• Making Audiences Identify with a Black Protagonist

  • Oprah notes the cultural shift in rooting for the black character, especially in horror:
    • “What you did with this film was allow audiences to experience rooting for the black guy—even when, under other circumstances, they might not.” (07:49)
  • Peele on microaggressions as horror:
    • “There are horror movies that explore every real-world horror—except this one.” (09:35)
    • “The power of story is that the audience becomes the protagonist… It was a way for a lot of white people to experience the world through the black perspective.” (10:35)

• On Pressure and Success

  • Oprah asks if he feels pressure after “Get Out’s” phenomenon:
    • “I will continue to make the movies I want to see. If I want to see it, I have to trust that other people will.” — Jordan Peele (11:49)
    • “Don’t believe your own jump shot… means you’re already there.” — Oprah’s advice for staying grounded (13:24)

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2. Salma Hayek Pinault: Activism, MeToo, and Personal Conviction

Timestamps: 16:06 – 27:54

• On Fighting for Women, Pre- and Post-MeToo

  • Oprah acknowledges Salma’s decades-long advocacy for women and mothers:
    • “You’ve been fighting for women long before #MeToo, doing it in your own way.” (16:12)
  • Salma traces her passion to observing global inequality and the struggles of mothers, then focusing on domestic violence:
    • “This cycle of violence in the world starts at home.” (16:43-17:25)

• The Tipping Point of the Weinstein Scandal

  • Salma reflects on why change caught fire:
    • “It’s not only because the women spoke out, but because everybody listened… Humans are slow to change.” (17:59-18:37)
  • On her own reaction to the Weinstein news and being asked to go public:
    • “I ended up not doing it. Then I felt ashamed that I was a coward… But by now, Harvey—he had a lot of respect for me. I earned it with blood.” (19:13-20:13)

• Speaking Truth to Power, and The Cycles of Shame

  • Details of Weinstein’s threats and harassment:
    • “He told me, ‘I’m going to kill you’… ‘I am going to break the kneecaps of that [C-word].’” (20:34-20:54)
    • “I care about my knees!” — Salma, with humor amid darkness (21:53)
    • Oprah reads Salma’s essay, outlining her repeated refusals of Weinstein’s advances. (22:35)

• Complexities of Beauty, Power, and Vulnerability

  • On being attractive and underestimated as a victim:
    • “Attractive women are never the underdog because they’re attractive. But we are really, really good subjects for rape and violation and attack.” (23:39)
    • “We’re told you have to be the Virgin Mary, but you also have to do what I say… Who am I supposed to be?” (24:26)

• On Conviction and Self-Relationship

  • “Conviction is very, very important because you are alone, in reality… If you need the others to feel comfortable, you will always suffer from anxiety.” (26:47)
  • “The mystery of life to me is the relationship with you and you.” (26:47)

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3. Trevor Noah: Apartheid, Comedy, Motherhood, and Finding True North

Timestamps: 30:26 – 43:07

• Being Born A Crime

  • Oprah lauds Trevor’s “humor, depth, and sincerity” in his memoir, Born a Crime.
    • “I’ve never heard of a comedian who grew up in apartheid South Africa... You were literally born a crime.” (30:33-31:09)
  • Trevor details South Africa’s meticulous racial divisions:
    • “In South Africa, they were meticulous—the system was designed to make sure every group was small and oppressed in a different way.” (31:27)
  • Hidden childhood:
    • “Imagine… they just tell me sometimes to go and hide under the bed. I had the coolest parents in the world.” (32:08)
    • “I was evidence of my parents’ crime.” (32:41)

• The Power and Legacy of His Mother

  • “Most people would have a sign to protest government oppression. My mother had me.” (33:36)
  • “I realized I was my mother’s punk ass sidekick.” (33:52)
  • Oprah reads:
    • “The highest rung of what’s possible is far beyond the world you can see. My mother showed me what was possible… she did it on her own.” (34:32)

• Explaining the Black Tax and Structural Inequality

  • Oprah and Trevor break down generational disadvantage:
    • “There is also one underlying issue, and that is the devastation that impacted your generational family… Even if you say, ‘well, my grandfather wasn’t rich,’… you got opportunity. Many black families were robbed of.” (35:29)
  • His mother’s words:
    • “‘I may not be able to give you one cent in this world, but I promise you I will not give you the black tax.’” (36:55)

• Journey to The Daily Show

  • Trevor tells the story of Jon Stewart’s unexpected call:
    • “Hi, this is Jon Stewart”
      “Yes.”
      “I host The Daily Show in America, you may have heard of.” (37:16-38:11)
    • Initially declined offer to appear because of obligations to his fans—a theme of integrity and gratitude. (38:23-38:59)
  • On being surprised to take over:
    • “I was surprised because in my world, I had no chance. But every chance I’ve taken is the one that’s impossible… why do the possible thing? It’s boring.” (39:17)
    • “If I don’t get the Daily Show, I was never meant to get the Daily Show. But if I get it, this is something I would have never dreamed of.” (39:31)

• Intentions for The Show & America Today

  • “The purpose is to engage in the news in a manner that is critical… give it the respect it deserves, whilst not giving it the power to completely control your emotional state.” (40:09)
  • On America’s polarization and Trump:
    • “It feels like [America] is extremely divided… conversations have shifted to a point where human beings no longer see a human being on the other side… If your character shifts depending on who's in power, then was it your character to begin with?” (40:38-41:42)

• Staying Flexible and Authentic

  • Trevor on adapting as a host:
    • “I wish for the show to be like water. It should be moving with the same force as it moves through ideas and conversations.” (42:20)
    • “I’m sailing in a direction aiming for true north, but it’s shifting with the tide.” (42:44)
  • Oprah: “You have to let it guide you because it’s bigger than you. And you are there to be used by it, and so you allow it to take you where it needs to go.” (42:52)

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Memorable Quotes

• Jordan Peele:

  • “I think there is a sort of deficit or a lack of images in pop culture where black men are allowed to be vulnerable, where we’re allowed to be afraid.” (07:17)
  • “I will continue to make the movies I want to see… The biggest reward… is the fact that I get to make another movie.” (11:41)

• Salma Hayek Pinault:

  • “Shame—it’s a cycle of shame… I was pretending everything was okay.” (19:29)
  • “We are told you have to be the Virgin Mary but you have to do what I say when I say… Who the hell am I supposed to be?” (24:26)
  • “The mystery of life to me is the relationship with you and you… as long as you need the others to feel comfortable, you will always suffer from anxiety. And conviction is that place where, even if you make a mistake, you are at peace.” (26:47)

• Trevor Noah:

  • “Most people would have a sign to protest government oppression. My mother had me.” (33:36)
  • “Why do the possible thing? It’s boring. If you succeed… do the impossible thing.” (39:17)
  • “I wish for the show to be like water… Finding an authentic way to express a point of view.” (42:20)

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Notable Segment Timestamps

• Jordan Peele on being an outsider and the genesis of Get Out: 02:41 – 05:27
• Peele on black vulnerability and the Denzel tear: 06:59 – 07:17
• Microaggressions and horror — making white people see through black perspective: 09:35 – 11:07
• Oprah on rooting for the black character: 07:49
• Salma Hayek's candid MeToo testimony: 19:13 – 24:17
• Hayek on the contradictions and pressures placed on women: 24:26 – 25:52
• Salma on conviction and self-relationship: 26:47
• Trevor Noah on being “Born a Crime”: 31:03 – 32:41
• Noah’s story about Jon Stewart’s call: 37:16 – 39:06
• Noah’s guiding philosophy for The Daily Show: 40:09 – 42:19

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Tone and Style

Conversations are candid, warm, and often humorous—even when discussing trauma or injustice. Oprah’s nurturing but forthright manner keeps guests at ease while drawing out substantive reflection and personal truth.

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Summary Takeaway

Oprah’s Super Soul at the Apollo is a testament to the transformative power of story, identity, and creative bravery. Whether confronting the deep racial anxieties underlying horror, the cycles of shame and resilience facing women, or the complexities of humor and truth in an unjust world, each guest illuminates the path to authentic selfhood by refusing to stay silent, challenging norms, and trusting their purpose—ultimately inspiring listeners to do the same.

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Transcript

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[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time. Taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. Hello New York. From the legendary Apollo Theater in Harlem, Three powerful voices who are killing it, using their talent and their truth to light up the world. Three time Oscar nominee for his first film, the blockbuster get out. Writer, producer and director, Jordan Peele, Oscar nominated actress, producer and co founder of the Time's up movement, Salma Hayek, Pinot and host of the Daily Show, Comedian and New York Times bestselling author of Born a Crime, Trevor Noah. First up, Jordan Peele, Oscar watchers. I think this is his year. First of all, I just gotta say I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Thank you. And the reason I am is because that was a bodacious thing you wrote and directed. And I just think to have the courage, first of all, a lot of people have a vision and an idea, but to have the courage to follow that through and then to walk into a studio meeting and say, this is the movie I want to do. Were you a little scarred?

[Jordan Peele]

I mean, so many. There were years put into conceiving the movie, but I didn't necessarily ever realize that it would actually ever get made. So I pitched it and I said, let's make this movie. Yeah, it was kind of like a. Oh, oh, now we're in. We're in. Let's.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So when you say it was years in conceiving it, I love this. I love the way writers minds work. Did you get little pieces of it and then write that down and then other pieces of it and write that down?

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, it was kind of like that. It was a hobby for me. It was this idea of designing my favorite movie that I'd never seen before.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. That is so interesting because I remember interviewing Toni Morrison years ago, and she said that she started writing because there wasn't a novel that she felt really spoke to the African American experience in a way that she wanted to read. So she started writing the novels that she wanted to read. Right.

[Jordan Peele]

I was the first audience for this film, and it really was about getting to go home at the end of a day. You know, some of this time I was working on Key and Peele and getting to go home and watching my favorite movie in my mind. And so that was, you know, many years.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. So all of this talk about it and now Oscar nominations. Where were you when the nominations were being?

[Jordan Peele]

I was at my house.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Jordan Peele]

I very quickly started crying.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Really? Okay, so. Cause you all know he got Best Screenplay, Best Director, Best Picture, Best Picture. The first African American to be honored with the trifecta there. Yes. So screenplay comes up, you're happy.

[Jordan Peele]

I'm happy. When I found out that Daniel Kaluuya, the lead in the film, got nominated.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes, I know.

[Jordan Peele]

That's when tears started streaming down my face.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because you're crying for him. For him. Yeah. And you've said that Chris character in get out actually represents the fear and anxiety that we all have sometimes when you're an outsider. When you were growing up, did you feel like an outsider? Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

You know, I had a really amazing support system, amazing family, single mother. So I got so much support. At the same time, I did feel like an outsider. I identified with the outsider. It's hard to know exactly why, but I think part of it is connected to racial identity. You know, I'm mixed, and there's part of the mixed experience, you, especially early on, that's kind of confusing.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're trying to figure it out and.

[Jordan Peele]

Well, the world's trying to figure you out. Yeah, the world is trying to put you in a box. They're literally, you know, asking you to check on the standardized test when you're six years old. What are you? White, African American, Other. So in the beginning of my school tenure, I put other down. As I grew up and as I got older, in elementary school, I began to identify as African American, which was comforting to me because it's what I am. I'm a black man. And, yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You get applause for being a black man.

[Jordan Peele]

Well, you know, it's. You know. But the whole thing set me on this trajectory of exploring and examining what it means to be black in this country and how.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So did you at some point go to your mom, your white mom, and say, mom, I'm a black man?

[Jordan Peele]

You know, I don't think it ever was that dramatic, was it? She probably would have giggled at the man part, I'm guessing, mom, I'm a black man. Yes, I'm a black man.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Mom.

[Jordan Peele]

You know. You know, she. Some of the first. I feel like the first movie I ever saw in a theater very young was a revival of Showboat. A good amount of my African American experiences growing up were through cinema. So the movie Glory was very meaningful to me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

The one tier.

[Jordan Peele]

The one tier, yeah. Actually, that moment of Denzel Washington with this defiant tear is, I think, connected to the now iconic image of Daniel has resonated.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Ah, well, now, yeah, there's a connection.

[Jordan Peele]

There's a connection.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay.

[Jordan Peele]

I think there is a sort of deficit or a lack of images in pop culture where black men are allowed to be vulnerable, where we're allowed to be afraid, where we're allowed to show fear. And, you know, the fact that everyone latched onto that, to me, is also connected to the fact that our fears, the injustices surrounding blackness in America aren't being heard. They're being silenced by a sort of systemic failure.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And what you did with this film was allowed audiences to experience rooting for the black guy, even though normally, under other circumstances, they might have not been rooting for the black guy who ends up doing what he does in the film. For example, I want to show the party scene. A clip of the party scene.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, you kidding?

[Trevor Noah]

Well, I can't quite swing the hips like I used to, though. But I do know Tiger.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Interesting, because anybody who's grown up black in a lot of white situations, when I was in Milwaukee, I went to school, and I was one of two black kids in the school at the time. And every time I'd get taken to somebody's home, they would always ask me, their parents would always ask me if I knew Sammy Davis Jr. And after a while, I just started saying, yeah, he's my cousin, because I didn't want to disappoint them that I didn't know Sammy Davis Jr. And Gayle, who grew up in Turkey, her father was working overseas. And she told everybody Martin Luther King was her uncle. Uncle Marty.

[Jordan Peele]

No, Uncle Marty.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Uncle Marty got in trouble because her father came to school one day and the teacher said, oh, we're so sorry about what's happened to your brother being jailed. He's like, you talking about my brother Alfred? I don't. Anyway, so everybody has been in that experience, Right. Did it come from a real experience?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

And this is, I think, part of the experience I had never seen portrayed in film.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Nope.

[Jordan Peele]

And there was this feeling I had while coming up with this that all I know is there are horror movies that explore every real world. Horror.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

Except this one. But the fact that the modern African American experience and our fears and our horrors and our uncomfortable interactions in the form of that expression, to me just meant there's a missing piece of the conversation here. And I think what happened with this scene where the microaggressions are the kind of the horror and the creepy thing is, you know, black people would say, you know, look. Hey, finally.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

Thank you. Yeah, that's my life story.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

And.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And the white people would say, what? Have there been different responses?

[Jordan Peele]

Sometimes I get like a. Yeah. It made me wonder, have I done that? But your Barack Obama impression is really good. Like, you just did it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

No, but, yeah, there's a little introspection going on, but I think the power of story and why this movie ended up being important is because when you have an actor like Daniel, when you have a character, that the audience becomes the protagonist. So this was a way for, I think, a lot of white people to experience the world through the black perspective. White people watching the movie don't identify with the white people in the movie. You identify with Chris, which means you've.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Already done something really important and valuable. Yes. It's so interesting because I remember reading this article as I was ending my. And it was an article in Vanity Fair about Michael Jackson, and his friends were commenting saying he did thriller and then spent the rest of his life chasing thriller. So how do you now avoid the trap of your first film? First directing, first written becomes this phenomenon.

[Jordan Peele]

Now that you mention it. I don't know.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I don't.

[Jordan Peele]

You know, I. I will continue to make the movies that I want to see.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

First, if I want to see it, I have to have trust that other people will. And if they don't, I have to accept that. That's. That's what it is.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

But for me, the biggest reward of all of this, for me, besides, this right here has always been. Has always been the fact that I get to make another movie. So I don't want to let that become an unpleasant experience because this one was so successful.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. So you don't feel the pressure at all?

[Jordan Peele]

No, I don't feel it. I don't feel it too extreme pressure.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because I think that what you just said is the value of why we're having these conversations. You do the work that you want to see and if it's coming out of a true space for you and. And that's first and foremost. And then if other people relate to it, that's fine. If they don't. Have you been able to enjoy it thus far? Have you been able to take it in? Have you been able to receive how the audiences have received you and this film? Have you been able to receive it?

[Jordan Peele]

It's easier sometimes than it is others because there's a bit of attention that is almost feels unnatural. Do you know anything about that?

[Oprah Winfrey]

A little bit.

[Jordan Peele]

Part of it feels unnatural. Part of it makes you grapple with this idea of like, okay, I don't. Don't watch your own jump shot here. Don't get too. Don't drink your own Kool Aid. And so it's hard when there's, you know, there's this.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, let me just say something to you because I've been through a little bit of this and I would say the fact that you are at a space in your own heart where you can say to your ego, don't believe your own jump shot means you're already there. Just to be able to ask the question means you're grounded enough to know.

[Jordan Peele]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're doing all right.

[Jordan Peele]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're doing all right. And I just wish you the very best. We're all gonna be rooting for. Get out.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Thank you so much for this time and the conversation.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Amazing.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Welcome Selma Hayek Pino. So good to see you again.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

So good to see you too.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Now what is interesting, as I was saying to the audience, you actually have been fighting for women before the whole MeToo movement, before time's up. You've been doing it in your own way. You've been doing it internally and externally.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

For over 20 years.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And so what was the thunderbolt moment for you that caused you to say I must stand up number one for myself and also do that for other women? How did women's rights become a calling?

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

I think that just by observing the situation of the world. Yeah. Not just one country and noticing that always we had it harder and we really did have it harder. And I think the one thing that moved me the most was the thought of mothers. How hard it is to be a mother and have children and have less opportunities and be Constantly judged. So I started with children and mothers, and then I. I became really passionate about domestic violence because I think this is where everything starts. This cycle of violence in the world starts at home.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, we have seen how the Harvey Weinstein scandal has actually allowed this conversation about violence against women. Sexual harassment against women in particular, become the catalyst for bringing those issues to the forefront. What do you think happened that this became the tipping point? Why was this the right time for a tipping point?

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Well, this is a very loaded question.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

We could do the whole thing on this because it's very important.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

I think that sometimes we underestimate our efforts, everybody's efforts, and the power that it has for change. The only reason that this is working right now, it's not only because the women we spoke out, but it's also because everybody listen. And I think that what happens is that we start making changes and we don't see the results. And we think the change is not happening. Humans are slow to change.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Right.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Well, this is something.

[Oprah Winfrey]

This is the thing we fear the most.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. What I realized was happening is that the Harvey scandal triggered within a lot of other people who had experienced sexual violation, sexual harassment from other people. And it triggered it, even though it had not come from Harvey. But for you who had had a previous experience, a violation by Harvey Weinstein, what did it trigger in you when you first heard about this scandal?

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

They contact me to be a part of this. The first story. The first story.

[Oprah Winfrey]

New York Times.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

The New York Times. Already by this contact, it was all this turmoil. So already I started crying when they asked me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

And I ended up not doing it. And then I felt ashamed that I was a coward, that I've been working, you know, supporting women for two decades, and then I didn't come up. I was a coward. I thought of all these different things, including my child. I don't want to talk about it. But I was also, you know, what was the one thing I was the most ashamed? Because shame. It's a cycle of shame. You're ashamed of one thing, and it leads you to another shame and another shame and another shame that I was pretending everything was okay. So I had been around Harvey acting like everything is okay. And I didn't tell my husband. I only told him, oh, he's such a bully. He was such a bully. But by now, Harvey, he had a lot of respect for me. I earned it with blood. But he did. So I was able to let go and move on. And so.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So you were able to let go of Having. Feeling violated or having been violated by him before. Do you feel comfortable discussing what the violation was?

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, you can. I feel comfortable talking about it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So tell us.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

You never raped me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Number one, he told me, I'm going to kill you. And I didn't write this in the article, but he said, I am going to break the kneecaps of that. The C word.

[Oprah Winfrey]

He called you the C word?

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

He called me the C word. But, you know, if you're Mexican, you don't really know what that really means. How different it is. I have to say how different it is.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And the B word from the.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Or from the P word.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Or the P word.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Okay. You know, they don't even know what the P word is. The same meaning as the C word, but with the P. It means you're like. Like a. You know, like a C. I don't know, like nobody. Somebody who's not strong, you know, like a chicken. Yeah, but with the C word. Then it means you're like the B word. No. What does it mean?

[Oprah Winfrey]

No, I definitely. No, no. The C word is definitely way worse than the B word.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Anyway, I knew it was bad. Yeah, I knew. And anyway, I didn't care about the C word. I care about my knees. I care about my knees.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's good.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

But he wanted me to do things. I mean, all the, you know, the massage, the this, the that, it was a constant. But I was depressed. I was paranoid. I lived in fear. I tried to get out. I couldn't get out. Every woman that's been in a similar situation, that I can guarantee is the majority, not just here, all over the world, understands that once you enter these dynamics, it's really, really hard to get. You don't see the way out. There always is a way out. The fear, the anger, the humiliation, blurs your sight.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I just want to say that you said in your essay you listed all the times you had had to say no to Harvey Weinstein's sexual advances. You wrote, no to me taking a shower with him. No to letting him watch me take a shower. No to letting him give me massage. No. No to letting a naked friend of his give me Assange. No to letting him give me oral sex. No to my getting naked with another woman. No, no, no, no. I think it's hard sometimes for people who work outside of Hollywood, in the media to understand how women they perceive, like yourself to be rich and famous and gorgeous could be subjected to assaults like this. Is it hard for you to imagine?

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

I've had struggle with Assault before I was in every.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So he wasn't the first one?

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

No, no. But he was the only one for five years. He was the only one for five years.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So the other person has that person, I call them now fallen trees. Has that person been named or been outed? The other person who's.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

They're not all famous. They're not all. In Hollywood. It's not about. I've had this problem since I was very little. People don't talk about too much when they think somebody is attractive. People say, oh, she has it easy. The attractive women is never the underdog because they're attractive. But we are really, really good subjects for rape and violation and attack and sometimes attack from other women. And I mean, I'm not complaining.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I understand exactly what you're saying, but.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

It comes with some issues too.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And so would you say from a very young age you had to learn how to say no and keep the assaulters away?

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Yeah. Yes. And it is full of contradictions because we are told you have to be the Virgin Mary, but you have to do what I say when I say you have to be attractive, but you cannot be too attractive because then you are telling me that I can do whatever I want with you. What the do you want? I mean, who the hell am I supposed to be? I want you to be good looking for me, but not good looking for the other ones. But don't come out looking like that. But don't look too good.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So it's a. Learning to manage it, although you are aware. So this is why I love the conversation with you. You're obviously a very beautiful woman and you've been beautiful, you know, your whole life. And most women who are beautiful don't admit that they are or that that also gives you a.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

It gives you some power.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I was just going to say it gives you.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

It comes with a price.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It gives you some power, but comes with a price.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

And then they expect you to continue to look beautiful for the rest of your life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Which comes with some pressure.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

It comes with some pressure.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Some pressure.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

But you know what? It is the point how to handle it. I'm going to tell you when it comes. When you say screw you, I am going to discover who I am, not who you want me to be. And I will maybe mingle in the things that I'm supposed to here and there, but I am going to be aware every second. Where am I here?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Final question. Has this allowed you. I've heard you speak before about the importance of honor and conviction in your life. So has this movement, your work with speaking out for yourself and being inclusive of other women, has it given you a greater sense of convulsive conviction? And how important is conviction?

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Conviction is, is very, very important because you are alone in reality. You are alone in life and it's a beautiful place to be. If you make peace with yourself, if you have a good relationship with yourself, there's so much to find you. We have so many possibilities. We actually don't spend enough time with ourselves and many times we fall into the trap to do things so that other people have a perception of who we are. Yeah, but the mystery of life to me is the relationship with you and you, as long as you need the others to feel comfortable, you will always suffer from anxiety. And conviction is is that place where even if you make a mistake, you are at peace. Why you made that mistake and mistakes sometimes are the greatest gifts that you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Can Salma Hayek.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Thank you so much.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Trevor Noah oh my goodness. Let me just tell you, I have to say, I love this book. I love this book so much.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you so much. Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And really, I have to tell you, I am so impressed that you were able to bring the story to the world in a way that has such humor and such depth, such sincerity and such truth. Really. Thank you.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you very much.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's called Born a Crime and I gotta just tell you're gonna love it. I've never heard of a comedian actually who grew up in apartheid South Africa.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Under such extreme conditions. And so you were literally born a crime.

[Trevor Noah]

Right, Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Born a crime. It was illegal for a European to to cohabitate, to be have sex.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes. To have carnal intercourse or interaction with any person of another race.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It was a law.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And it was a law that if you were a black person, you could not be.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Right. Everyone was separated. And so black and white and even smaller groups within race. You know, in America, oftentimes it's just black and white when the discussion is had. But in South Africa, they were meticulous. So it's black and white race within black. Black was divided into all different tribes and those tribes were separated from one Another. And then even within different races, like Asian people separated Japanese, a different class to Chinese and Indian, a different class to other types of Asian. And this was a system designed to make sure that every group was small and oppressed in a different way.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's right. And speaking different languages so nobody could communicate.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Right?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. And you, when you were a little boy, they had to hide you.

[Trevor Noah]

Which is something I didn't know by the way I was. Imagine this, I'm a little kid growing up. They just tell me sometimes to go and hide under the bed. In my world, I go, I have the coolest parents in the world. Sometimes I go hide and then that's, Then I come out. And then only when I'm writing the book does my grandmother tell me, oh, yes, we, we hid you under the bed, Trevor. We hid you because the police would come and if they found you then they would take you away. So we had to hide you. And I'm like, how did I not know this my entire life? And my grand goes, you never asked, really?

[Oprah Winfrey]

And explain why they had to hide you.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, because I was evidence of my parents crime. So here's the, here's the fundamental problem with racism is that it's an idea that is defeated over and over again by people contradicting what people have been told. And that is black and white cannot mix, colors cannot mix. And when people mix, they prove that it can happen. They prove that you can have beautiful children. They prove that love can cross color boundaries.

[Oprah Winfrey]

The thing that really got me about this book, and I actually read a review of it that said, it's a love letter to your mother completely. I mean, you and your mom, first of all, your mom, she's a badass, man. She is just like, just a badass warrior woman. To have said she on purpose, intentionally wanted to have you.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Knew it was against the law, Knew it was against the law to be with a white person, say, I'm gonna do it anyway, Right? Yes. And I'm gonna have this child and I'm gonna raise this child the way I wanna raise this child.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Most people would have a sign to protest government oppression. My mother had me. And you know, in telling my story and writing this book, I never thought it was about my mom. I think most of us believe that we're the heroes of our story.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And in writing the story, I realized that I was my mother's punk ass sidekick. I, you know, I, I genuinely, I didn't set out to write it about my mother at all.

[Tremphya Medication Narrator]

I just.

[Trevor Noah]

I was telling my story, and it's. It's funny how you sit down and then you come to realize the people in your life who have shaped you and who play a big role in who you are. And I can't deny that my mother was that person for me who stood up at a time when. When many people were afraid to stand up, when a country was being punished for standing up. And she said, no, as a woman and as a black person, I will live the way I believe I'm allowed to live, whether you tell me I can or not. And she did that. And so because of that, she's the example that I lived my life by without realizing the consequences. And that, for me, is one of the most gangster human beings you can shape yourself by.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Your mom's gangster. So this, I thought on page 73 was one of the greatest tributes. You said, the highest rung of what's possible. Listen, y', all, the highest rung of what's possible is far beyond the world you can see. My mother showed me what was possible. The thing that always amazed me about her life was that no one showed her. I know y' all like that part. No one chose her. She did it on her own. She found her way through sheer force of will. An amazing gangster mom, really. Okay, so what I also love is that you talk in the book about the black tax.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That white people don't know nothing about, but black people have a black tax. Cause you're expected to explain the black tax.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. And this is one of the hardest conversations to have with people is like, you know, oftentimes we get into conversations, especially today, where white people will say, not all, but white people will have a conversation where they say, I don't understand why a black person feels so oppressed. We've lived the same lives. We've grown up the same way. Yes, I understand. Maybe your parents were oppressed, but now you're free, so what's the issue? And then what you come to realize is, apart from traces of systematic or systemic oppression that still exist, there is also one underlying issue, and that is the devastation that impacted your generational family. Like. Like those are things that you take for granted. Even if you say, well, my grandfather wasn't rich. I got nothing from him. Yeah, but you got opportunity. You got knowledge. You got ideas. You got things that many black families were robbed of. And so what happens is so important.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You know, I've done hundreds of shows over the years of the Oprah Show. And I remember actually being in an audience talking about race and a white woman. I said, exactly. To a black guest. I didn't do it to you. Why should I still feel bad? Because I didn't do it to you. That was your grandmothers and great grandmothers. And I was trying to do exactly what you just did. Explain. What if your grandmother had never been allowed to work as anything other than a maid?

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What if your grandfather could never find a job? What if nobody in your family was ever treated like they were a full human being? Would that have any impact at all?

[Trevor Noah]

And the greatest gift my mother gave me, and she always said it was my son, I may not be able to give you one cent in this world, but I promise you, I will not give you the black tax. That's the one thing I'll keep from you. I will handle it. You go and fly in the world.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I just want to know. Cause I kept waiting in the book for you to tell us how you ended up on the Daily Show. How did that happen to you?

[Trevor Noah]

That was one of the most surreal experiences ever. I was, for the first time, touring the world. I had just started touring in the uk and I was doing comedy in the world, which was a lifelong dream for me. And I was walking through Harrods. I'll never forget this. It's a crazy store where they sell everything that nobody can afford, most of us cannot afford. And so I was walking around looking at just crazy things in the world. And my phone rings, and it's an American number. And I answer, and the voice on the other side says, hi, can I speak to Trevor Noah? And I said, speaking. And the voice said, hi, this is Jon Stewart. And I said, yes. Cause I'm not thinking it's the Jon Stewart. It's like if I got called by someone and said, I'm Oprah, I'd be like, oprah Stevenson.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Oprah.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm not just gonna jump to like, of course, Oprah.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Hello.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, Oprah. I don't know which Jon Stewart is calling me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And so I said, jon Stewart. I said, oh, I'm sorry. I'm Jon Stewart. I host a Daily show in America you may have heard of. I was like, yeah, of course I've heard of the show. And he said, well, I've seen your comedy, and I'm a big fan of yours.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Where had he seen your company? On YouTube. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And then he said, hey, I, I, I was wondering, if you ever come to America, would you like to pop into the show and hang out. I. I think you'd like what we do, and maybe we could hang out.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And he said, I'm gonna be there next Tuesday.

[Trevor Noah]

And funny enough, no. I said no.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You said no?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, you. Like I said, this is the greatest moment of my life, but I've worked so hard to get what I have in the uk. These people have bought tickets. This is the most important thing that's ever happened to me. Thank you, but no. And he paused and he said, are you seriously saying no? And I said, yeah, but I'm. Thank you, but thank you, but no. And.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Cause. Was he asking you to leave? Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, I knew that I would have to cancel my tours. I'd have to go to the US And I was like, no, I've worked for this. I've worked for these people.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I've worked for.

[Trevor Noah]

I don't take my fans for granted.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I respect that. I respect that.

[Trevor Noah]

And so I did that. And John said, well, when you ever do come to New York, look me up and let's hang out. And I did that a year and a half later.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And a year and a half later. That's pretty amazing. So were you surprised when they said, we want you now to step in and do it?

[Trevor Noah]

I was. I was surprised because I. In my world, I had no chance, But I come from a world where there was no chance. So every chance I've taken is the one that's impossible. I always say to people, why do the possible thing? It's boring. If you succeed. Yeah, like, do the impossible thing. Because if you don't get it right, people are like, you weren't gonna get it right. And if you do, you did the impossible. And so for me, it was like, yeah, I'll throw my name in. And if I don't get the Daily Show. I was never meant to get the Daily show, but if I get it, this is something that I would have never dreamed of doing. And so they called me. I was doing shows in Dubai and I got a phone call and they said, hey, we've looked through everyone. We've. We've gone through all our decisions. Would you like to be the host of the Daily Show? And if I wasn't sitting down, I would. I would have fallen over. I would have fainted. It was mind blowing. And I couldn't get alcohol because I was in Dubai. Like, I didn't know. I was just like, I'm so happy. And, you know, it was everything. It really was.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And what is your intention with the show every night?

[Trevor Noah]

The purpose of the show is to engage in the news in a manner that is critical in its thoughts, to think about what's happening, process it, react to it, and most importantly, give it the respect that it deserves, whilst not also giving it the power to completely control your emotional states.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Absolutely. I read where you said you believe we reached a tipping point of outrage and injustice. That's pretty profound coming from somebody who's lived through apartheid.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, it's worrying when you look at what's happening in America, you know, and in some parts of the world as well. But America's getting to a place where it feels like it is extremely divided along partisan lines, and conversations have shifted to a point where human beings no longer see a human being on the other side of this discussion. And it's tough to say that one side should be empathetic towards the other side when the other side doesn't see them as human beings. And that's a fundamental breakdown that seems to be happening in America. And you can't deny. And this is my thing, is I tell people all the time, they go like, oh, if you hate America, why? I'm like, yeah, I never said I hate.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love it. If I.

[Trevor Noah]

If I didn't love it, I wouldn't be here. This is a great place. I enjoy America.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love Americans.

[Trevor Noah]

I have a great time. Having an issue with Donald Trump doesn't make me unique because every Republican saw it before he was in office, you know, and so if, as you said, going back to character, if your character shifts depending on who's in power, then was it your character to begin with?

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's.

[Trevor Noah]

That's the way I see it.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

So.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You feel you hit a stride?

[Trevor Noah]

I don't ever think that I've hit my stride. It's very much like an athletic event. You're always trying to be better.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So by stride, I mean, do you think you've found your way?

[Trevor Noah]

I think I've reshaped how I've seen the show, because when I first started the Daily show and when I took over the seat from Jon Stewart, Yeah, I had an idea of what I wanted the show to be. I've now come to realize that I am existing and the show is existing as an organism in a world that is constantly changing. And so I cannot give it a concrete definition because the world around it is constantly shaping how it reacts.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

So if anything, I wish for the show to be like water. It should be moving with the same force as it moves through ideas and conversations. And I think it's about finding an authentic way to express a point of view in and around what the news is every single day. That's what I'm trying to do on the show, but I've come to realize there is no fixed point. I'm sailing in a direction aiming for true north, but it's shifting with the tide and you're constantly trying to keep the boat where it needs to go versus where you thought it should go.

[Atruby Medication Narrator]

You got it. That's it.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

That's it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's it. That is it. That is it. You have to let it guide you because it's bigger than you. Exactly. And you are there to be used by it and so you allow it to take you where it needs to go. It is my great pleasure and delight to you.

[Trevor Noah]

My Honor, thank you so much.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Great pleasure and delight. Kevin Oak Born a Crime Jesse Brooks.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you so much.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So wonderful meeting.

[Salma Hayek Pinault]

Great, great, great.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe. Rate and review this podcast. Join me next week for another Super Soul Conversation. Thank you for listening.

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