Super Soul Special: Oprah at the Apollo, Part 2: Stephen Colbert, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Yara Shahidi, Jessica Williams and Phoebe Robinson

Summary

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Oprah’s Super Soul Special at the Apollo, Part 2 (Nov 19, 2025)

Guests:

• Stephen Colbert
• Lin-Manuel Miranda
• Yara Shahidi
• Jessica Williams & Phoebe Robinson (2 Dope Queens)

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Episode Overview

Live from Harlem’s famed Apollo Theater, Oprah hosts an inspiring gathering with some of today’s most influential creators and thinkers. In this special episode, Oprah engages with Stephen Colbert (comedian and late show host), Lin-Manuel Miranda (creator of Hamilton), and Yara Shahidi (actor and activist), delving into themes of hope, community, faith, activism, and the sustaining power of love and authenticity in divisive and challenging times. The episode closes with comic relief and reflection from Jessica Williams and Phoebe Robinson (2 Dope Queens), celebrating the impact of collaboration, resilience, and self-awareness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Stephen Colbert: Humor, Faith, and Hope in Challenging Times

(Timestamp: 01:58 – 13:28)

• Balancing Comedy and Social Commentary

  • Colbert reflects on the grind of a daily comedy show and the deep responsibility of connecting truthfully with audiences during consequential times.
  • “We want to tell jokes and thereby build a community of people who can all share their feelings with each other. I get to say all the words, but we’re sharing our feelings because they’re laughing back… This feels like a lonely time right now.” (Colbert, 03:21–03:49)
  • Discusses the challenge of making light of the news without becoming its primary source for people, instead aiming to be “an addition, a catalyst to what they’ve been thinking all day” (04:36–04:55).

• Faith as Sustenance

  • Colbert, a practicing Catholic, shares that his mother would always encourage him to “look at this moment in the light of eternity,” fostering humility and acceptance.
  • Favorite Bible verse: Matthew 6:27 – “Do not worry about tomorrow...” which provided comfort during a time of anxiety and spiritual loss.
  • “The words of Christ speak off the page. There’s no effort for me to read them... It’s like he’s talking directly to us now.” (Colbert, 08:35–09:02)

• Hopefulness Versus Fear for America

  • Colbert voices enduring hope, referencing America's foundation on the idea of equality and resilience through crisis.
  • “Our country remains the last best hope of mankind and it is already great... As long as that idea does not disappear… America will always be the last best hope of mankind.” (Colbert, 09:51–10:56)

• Embracing Love—Even for Your Opposition

  • He acknowledges the challenge of loving those we disagree with most.
  • “That’s the challenge, the last challenge, is to love the people you disagree with the most… Because loving the people you agree with, anybody can do that.” (Colbert, 13:05–13:23)

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2. Lin-Manuel Miranda: Art, Empathy, and Purpose

(Timestamp: 16:32 – 28:21)

• Fatherhood and Vulnerability

  • Fresh from welcoming a newborn, Miranda shares the chaos and learning curve of having two young children, and how it shifts household dynamics and his emotional world.
  • “That’s what two is like. You kind of sometimes have to tag team… in the short week as being a father of two.” (Miranda, 17:39–17:43)

• Creating Hamilton—Intent and Inspiration

  • Miranda discusses the evolution from writing musicals about communities (In the Heights) to building Hamilton around the force of a singular, complicated character.
  • “With Hamilton, it’s about Hamilton, and his force of personality is so strong… either they’re falling in love with him or they want to kill him.” (Miranda, 19:38–20:07)
  • Details the painstaking process (e.g., taking a year to write “My Shot”) and the need for lyrical density to honor hip hop as influential as Jay Z (20:06–21:18).

• Moral Clarity & Empathy in the Current Era

  • Reflects that post-2016 election, many felt new clarity on the values they must defend, particularly civil rights and LGBTQ rights.
  • “We’re living in a time of enormous moral clarity… Here are the things we can’t go backwards on… What can I focus on? What won’t let me go unless I do something about it? Because you can drown in how many people need help all over the world.” (Miranda, 21:42–22:47)

• Platform and Activism: Puerto Rico

  • Shares his plan to bring Hamilton to Puerto Rico, with affordable tickets and proceeds aiding arts funding post-Hurricane Maria.
  • The performance is deeply personal—he recounts performing In the Heights in Puerto Rico as a healing experience for himself and the community.
  • “It’s impossible to talk about this without crying... To be a kid whose Spanish sounds pretty gringo to Puerto Ricans… and to feel that love back, it closed something in me I didn’t even know was open.” (Miranda, 24:21–24:52)

• Art as Prayer and Resistance

  • Recounts writing his Tony acceptance sonnet in the wake of the Pulse nightclub shooting:
    • “We live through times when hate and fear seem stronger. We rise and fall and light from dying embers, remembrances that hunger, hope and love last longer. That feels like a prayer.” (Oprah quoting Miranda, 26:40–27:01)
  • Miranda: “If we’re survived by the people who love us and remember us, then we’ll kind of go on forever.” (Miranda, 28:18–28:21)

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3. Yara Shahidi: Authenticity, Generational Change, and Leadership

(Timestamp: 30:29 – 40:21)

• Embodying Authenticity and Self-Definition

  • Yara expresses gratitude for support to be “authentically myself” (31:23), a privilege she doesn’t take for granted.
  • “I haven’t had to feel too much pressure because I’ve been so fortunate to have support… for being authentically myself. I have not had to perpetuate a facade for the sake of love or support.” (Shahidi, 31:23–31:47)

• The Power of Access and Generational Awareness

  • Points to Millennials and Gen Z’s unprecedented digital access, which fosters awareness and accelerated political engagement.
  • “Millennials and Gen Z… have had the great fortune of an incredible amount of access… The digital age lets us learn these lessons at a young age. This administration has put pressure on my generation to really speed up our political awareness.” (Shahidi, 33:21–34:11)

• Youth Activism: Initiative 18 by 18

  • Yara announces her voter turnout initiative for first-time voters, underscoring young people’s role in shaping democracy.
  • “I’m launching an initiative called 18 by 18, which is to increase youth voter turnout for first-time voters… midterms are such an important moment for us to reclaim our government.” (Shahidi, 34:18–35:17)

• Impact of Black-ish on Identity

  • Describes how the show fostered a culture of meaningful conversation and activism, encouraging her to continue those discussions off-screen.
  • “To be able to be on a show in which that is our core goal really allowed us to have more conversations at such a young age…” (Shahidi, 36:02–37:01)

• Balancing Ambition with Groundedness

  • Shares the role of her family and personal rituals (chakra necklaces) in helping her stay centered.
  • “My parents have done a great job of giving me my semblance of normalcy… acting is something that we do, but it’s not who we are.” (Shahidi, 38:11–38:15)

• Oprah’s Blessing

  • Oprah shares a personal story and imparts: “Baby, your future’s so bright it burns my eyes.” (Oprah, 40:20)

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4. Phoebe Robinson & Jessica Williams (2 Dope Queens): Humor, Self-Care, and Friendship

(Timestamp: 40:59 – 43:00)

• The comedians bring lightness and honesty about preparing for Oprah (“you don’t roll up in your sweatpants. You gotta bring it in!” – Robinson, 41:00).
• Williams talks about self-care routines, journaling, connecting with friends and family, and the distinction between experiencing emotions and choosing how to respond.
• “Your emotions, they’re real, but they’re not… you don’t have to succumb to them.” (Williams, 42:10)
• Their segment highlights the necessity of supportive friendship, laughter, and self-reflection.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Stephen Colbert:

  • “Our country remains the last best hope of mankind and it is already great.” (09:51)
  • “I don’t know how to do a nightly comedy show that’s also about love. But I’d like it in some way to be about love.” (11:56)
  • “That’s the challenge, the last challenge is to love the people you disagree with most.” (13:05)

• Lin-Manuel Miranda:

  • “With Hamilton, it’s about Hamilton… every other character is just trying to make sense of him. Either they’re falling in love with him or they want to kill him.” (20:07)
  • “It’s impossible to talk about this without crying… to be a kid whose Spanish sounds pretty gringo to Puerto Ricans… and to feel that love back…” (24:21–24:52)

• Yara Shahidi:

  • “I have had the great fortune of not having to perpetuate a facade for the sake of love or support.” (31:47)
  • “I’m launching an initiative called 18 by 18, which is to increase voter turnout and youth voter turnout for first-time voters…” (34:18)
  • Oprah: “Baby, your future’s so bright it burns my eyes.” (40:20)

• Phoebe Robinson & Jessica Williams:

  • “Your emotions, they’re real, but they’re not… you don’t have to succumb to them.” (42:10)

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Segment Timestamps

• Stephen Colbert’s Interview: 01:58–13:28
• Lin-Manuel Miranda’s Interview: 16:32–28:21
• Yara Shahidi’s Interview: 30:29–40:21
• Phoebe Robinson & Jessica Williams: 40:59–43:00

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Tone & Language

The episode is heartfelt, candid, and uplifting. Oprah brings warmth and genuine admiration to each conversation, encouraging her guests to share deeply. The guests reciprocate with openness, weaving personal stories with timely reflections about faith, resilience, activism, and hope.

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For Listeners

This Super Soul Special at the Apollo is a powerful testament to how humor, artistry, and authenticity can build bridges—across generations, cultures, and divides. Whether discussing faith or family, social responsibility or personal growth, Oprah and her guests reveal the human stories and values behind their public personas, leaving listeners inspired to seek light in dark times and love—especially where it’s hardest.

Transcript

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[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time. Taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. Hello, Harlem. From the famed Apollo Theater in New York City. So much talent on one stage. Three trailblazers and game changers who are shaking things up in a big way. Host of the Late show and New York Times best selling author Stephen Colbert. The Pulitzer Prize, Grammy and Tony winning genius behind Hamilton lady Lin Manuel Miranda. Star of Black Ish and its spinoff Grown Ish. She's Harvard bound and a remarkable young woman to watch. Yara Shahidi. First up, Stephen Colbert.

[Trevor Noah]

Hey, everybody.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's nice. Thanks for saying yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you very much.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thanks for saying yes. You I did not think would say yes.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

How.

[Trevor Noah]

I can't say no.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. I thought you were gonna, you know.

[Trevor Noah]

You don't say no to. Oh, I was so excited. And it's been six years since you. I've sat for an interview that you're conducting. Yes, I miss it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes, I came down to your home and did that. But this is the interesting thing when you're doing a daily Show. Yeah, I understand that it's kind of hard to take a break in the middle of that day.

[Trevor Noah]

No, you don't even leave to have lunch.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You don't leave your desk at all. So why'd you say yes?

[Trevor Noah]

I Want to know what you want to ask me? I don't know because I'm tired of me. But if you're interested.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm very interested.

[Trevor Noah]

That makes me feel better about myself.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm very interested in you.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

We had a great conversation once before, but I just wanted to say that I think you're better than ever. I think something happened to you.

[Trevor Noah]

This is why I came up. This is why I came up today.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

I'm good.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you very much. You're the best.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

I think we just peaked. I don't know.

[Trevor Noah]

All right, well, we're having a really good time. To do a daily show, you got to care about it, you know, to do the grind, do 200.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Absolutely right.

[Trevor Noah]

You got to care about what you're talking about.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

And.

[Trevor Noah]

And we are living in consequential times. And the opposite of, like, it getting you down, it actually fires you up. Cause you want to talk about it, you want to get it out. You want to have a sense of community with the audience. That's what we want more than anything else is, like, we want to tell jokes and thereby build a community of people who can all share their feelings with each other. I get to say all the words, but we're sharing our feelings with each other because they're laughing back, you know, because you don't want to be alone. This is a lonely time. This feels like a lonely time right now.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you're usually the last voice we hear before we go off to sleep. And so do you feel like.

[Trevor Noah]

Makes me sound like a daily executioner.

[Oprah Winfrey]

No. Do you feel. Does that come with a responsibility or you're not thinking about the responsibility?

[Trevor Noah]

Responsibility is to make jokes on whatever the conversation today was like. We try not to, ever, like, break news for the audience. We want to keep aware of what the national conversation is today and then give our opinion about it, because jokes are opinions.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Cause if you're breaking news, this is an interesting thing. If you're breaking news and I'm just hearing the news from you.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm gonna have the reaction of somebody who's just hearing the news. It's hard if you're breaking the news to make that break funny. Right, right.

[Trevor Noah]

Depending on what the news is. Okay. But there's not a lot of funny news these days. Yeah. No, you want the audience. What we want to do is we want to be an addition, a catalyst to what they've been thinking all day. People come to the show at the very end of the day. They've been thinking about something that happened all day. And we go, yeah, we've been thinking about it too. Here's what we think.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So do you think that you found your stride after the 2016 election? Do you think you found it?

[Trevor Noah]

I think we found it internally. The thing about doing one of these shows that it's hard to explain is I love doing the show for the audience, you know. Yes, 51% of my joy is what you see.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

49% of the joy is what did it take to get there? That's the process. I love process. You know, I love seeing how things are put together. That's why I love cooking shows. I love Chopped because, like, you know, three secret ingredients that you don't get to see till you start cooking at the end of it. You have to have a meal. That's what every day is like on a nightly comedy show. Just, these are the three stories. Those are your three ingredients that you didn't find out till you walked in that morning. And you have to make a meal for the audience that night. You have to curate it. You know, you have to cook this thing up for them. And that requires a very tight process. Everybody needs to know how to do their job, stay in their lane. And he made that happen for us so that we were ready for Donald Trump to happen. Because if we hadn't done that work, you know, if we hadn't done all those live shows, if we hadn't seeing how fast we could cook, then we wouldn't have been ready for a president who changes the news every 15 minutes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And it's not a. That's not an exaggeration. He changes the news every 15 minutes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Aren't you amazed at how the country has become kind of obsessed about it, though?

[Trevor Noah]

I'm amazed at the speed. I'm not amazed with the obsession because he a wants the attention, knows how to get it. He's a very good showman.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

He.

[Trevor Noah]

And everything he does is of consequence. He is the most important man on the planet. So we should be amazed.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And so you're the number one late night show.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

On television, do you feel the same when you're number one as when you're number two?

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Nope.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thanks for being truthful about it.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

That's right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You just don't, do you?

[Trevor Noah]

No, it feels a little better.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So you are a practicing Catholic.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Yep.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And how does your faith sustain you is what I want to know.

[Trevor Noah]

Not many Catholics here tonight, or if there are, they're not willing to admit It.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

How does my faith sustain me?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, my mother used to say that in hardships in your life, try to look at this moment in the light of eternity. You know, let's try to see this how God might see it, if it's good or bad, any hardship or victory, with humility, with acceptance, and with love. And you can't love something until you can accept it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That is correct. That is correct.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So people. A lot of people are calling this the. How do you counteract that? I know your favorite Bible verse is Matthew. The don't worry one.

[Trevor Noah]

It is. So I say to you, do not worry for who among you, by worrying, could change a single hair on his head or add a single cubit to the span of his life? You know, and then it goes on from there. And, you know, sufficient, my father used to say, sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Tomorrow will worry about itself. I was a young man actually walking down the street in Chicago. It was a very, very cold day as. And there were Gideons giving out Bibles. They're handing out the New Testament, Proverbs and Psalms. And it was so cold that I had to, like, crack it over my knee because it had kind of frozen. The humidity had frozen it in place. And I opened it to that passage, and it changed my life because I had lost my faith. And I opened it to that passage in Matthew, and I was so wracked with anxiety, and it was the first time I had read the Bible or anything that I understood the phrase. It spoke to me because I wasn't reading it. It just spoke off the page. And the words of Christ are that. For me, the words of Christ speak off the page. There's no effort for me to read them. And they just. It's like he's talking directly to us now.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

So with a harrowing challenge.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Which is to love your neighbor as yourself. Love your enemies.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's the one. And to love your enemies. Love your love. Okay, so at the beginning of this event, Super Soul conversations, I was saying to the audience, first of all, how surprised I was that you'd said yes and that you were gonna leave your show in the middle of the day and that we were gonna have this, you know, uplifting these cultural conversations and not to worry. So in the privacy of your own heart, if you would open it up a little bit and share with us. Are you more afraid for this country right now or more hopeful for this country right now?

[Trevor Noah]

I'm always hopeful for this country because.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Our country see Our country will be all right.

[Trevor Noah]

No, our country is. Our country is. Remains the last best hope of mankind and it is already great. This is a great country. This was a great country in the heart of the Depression. Yeah, this was a great country when we were torn apart by the Civil War. It was a great country because we are based on civil war and civil rights. Civil war and civil rights.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

We're based on an idea that we imperfectly. A harrowing idea, a harrowing challenge that we imperfectly embody at all times, which is that all men are created equal and then they have equal access to justice and to prosperity and to. And as long as that idea does not disappear, as long as our Constitution is not changed from that idea. And of course, the non constitutional inspirational document like the Declaration of Independence, as long as we always keep that. There will be good presidents and there will be bad presidents, there will be good Congresses and backgrounds. There will be good judiciary and bad judiciary. But if we can all agree on that thing, then America will always be the last best hope of mankind.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow. I love that.

[Trevor Noah]

For America because every bit of darkness is only for now. The light always wins.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So I want to know what you're most hopeful for.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, I would know. What would give me hope and what to a certain extent does give me hope is that love is not a bad word that we can say love or I love you or love is the every only God like to say that love is the most important thing and to mean it without embarrassment. Six months before my show started, Spike Jones, the director and pretty good actor too, he came by, he just said, do you need any help starting your show? And I'm like, sure, let's talk. So he just came by and he interviewed me six months before my show went on the air about what I wanted the show to be. And after we'd been on the air for a while and he actually sent it to me this past year, he sent those notes back to me to say, I want to remind you what your intention was. And one of the things he said that he sort of circled or pointed out in it was, I don't know how to do a nightly comedy show that's also about love. But I'd like it in some way to be about love. And there's so many different ways to express that, I suppose. And that's all.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's what you had said.

[Trevor Noah]

That's what I said to him in the interview, which he showed back to me as a reminder. And when I look at the show that we're doing right now. I hope that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think it's interesting that you set an intention for it. Yes, yeah, yes, I live through that. I live that. I live that.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah. And then you start and you don't know how to find it. And that. That gives you all kinds of benefits.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But wasn't that helpful? Not knowing the way helped you find the way.

[Trevor Noah]

Right. Because anything is possible and it's always going to be painful to make a transition or a change like that. But, you know, the thing anyway, the hope for love. Yeah, the hope for love, and I think now we found, is that I love my country, I love science, I love facts, I love people regardless of their race or their gender identity. And the challenge now is to love the people who don't seem to have that value in their heart, or at least how it's politically expressed. I don't know what's in their heart, how it's politically expressed. Even the people I disagree most with, if I sat down and had this conversation with them, we might leave the conversation hand in hand.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

And so that's the challenge, the last challenge is to love the people you disagree with the most, to love the.

[Oprah Winfrey]

People you disagree with the most.

[Trevor Noah]

Right. But that's the harrowing challenge that Christ sets forth. To love the people you disagree with most. Because loving the people you agree with, anybody can do that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's right.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Anybody can do that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That means you have to find a path to love Donald Trump.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, that's true. I didn't say I was a good Catholic, in fact.

[Yara Shahidi]

So.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you for doing a show about love every night. Thank you for doing it. Oh, thank you.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thanks for coming down.

[Trevor Noah]

Thanks.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Lin Manuel Miranda wow.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

The Apollo.

[Oprah Winfrey]

The Apollo.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

And it's showtime.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Did you just get back from Puerto Rico? Did you?

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

No, I just got back from having a new human head on my chest.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I know you had the baby. You had the baby.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

The baby just came a week ago.

[Oprah Winfrey]

A week ago?

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Yeah, a week ago.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So now there's two?

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Yeah, I said I'm not leaving the house for two months and then Oprah called, so here I am. You're the Only thing, I'm leaving the house.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I know you said yes. You said yes. Thank you. What's it like with two?

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

It's. Well, we had a day of brilliance, and my other son came home, and he was like, oh, I love him. And it was, like, peaceful for a day. Okay.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And then my older son Sebastian's three, Right?

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Sebastian's three. And then he got the stomach bug. So I have been. My wife and that beautiful child have been with her parents all week is sequestered, and I have been in the diarrhea upside down for a week with the stomach bug. And I'm fine, but. But I've just been nursing the other one, so I was like, oh, this is what two is like. You kind of sometimes have to tag team. And that's what I've learned in the short week as being a father of two.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So it's disrupted the household.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. We live in different places.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What did you tell Sebastian about this baby coming?

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Oh, Francisco. And it's his baby, right? That's been the whole thing. It's like, that's my baby. And then for a while, he was growing some, and that was amazing. He was like, well, I have two in my stomach. Not to be outdone, but it's wonderful. It's very surreal to. I'll put it this way. There's one song in Hamilton that's, like, truly autobiographical. There's no historical precedent for it. It was just a song that came out while I was writing. There's a moment where Eliza is singing to Hamilton's call. That would be enough. And there's nothing in a textbook for that moment. I didn't do any research for that. It's just a moment where Eliza is telling Hamilton, as long as you come home at the end of the day, that would be enough. If my child is gonna have a bit of that mind, my wife is gonna kill me for telling this story. Cause she doesn't like this. She doesn't like how she comes off in this story. I played it for my wife, and, like, tears are streaming down my cheeks. And she goes, is that what you wish I would say to you? And I went, no, that's my love song. To you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You. To you.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Yeah. I can't even think about it. But that's the thing that changes, is you have this new person that, with any luck, is gonna get some of the attributes of the love of your life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So when you originally started Hamilton, you weren't trying to create this social musical phenomenon that was going to Bring us a better understanding of history and ourselves. Or were you?

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

No, I was trying. I knew that he sang. I just knew that it was a really compelling idea for a musical. And I look at the musicals I love, and there's different kinds, right? In the Heights. When I was writing in the Heights and when Chiara came on board, we realized this. Thank you. This was. This is about a community changing. It started as sort of just my college musical, but then we realized, oh, this is about a neighborhood changing. And so we looked at other musicals about communities changing. We looked at Fiddler on the Roof. We looked at Cabaret, which is about Germany changing fast. We looked at those musicals that are about a community. With Hamilton. It's about Hamilton, and his force of personality is so strong that every other character is just trying to make sense of him. Either they're falling in love with him or they want to kill him.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Kill him.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

So I watched Sweeney Todd and I watched Gypsy, and I watched those musics where it's like, name above the title, Here Comes Mama Rose. That's Hamilton. You know, it's like he's this force of nature and this whirlwind. And so those were sort of the things I looked to. So I just knew that he was very propulsive and he had a very event filled life. And then I found myself drowning in research. It had been two years and I'd only written two songs. I'd written the opening number. It took me a year to write my shot. Because if I'm gonna back up my claim that Hamilton is the most hip hop guy who ever lived, he has to announce himself with the best lyrics I've ever written in my life. So every couplet took me about a week. It would rhyme at the end of the line and I would go, I bet I can make this rhyme like six more times in here. And it had to be as dense as my favorite rappers. It had to be as dense as Jay Z. And by dense, I mean, like, don't rhyme just at the end of the line. Rhyme. Seven syllables. Rhyme in. You know, I'm past patiently waiting. I'm passionately smashing every expectation. And every action's an act of creation, you know, and like that when I'm doing that, it took me months to think of that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

How do you define the times or describe for yourself the times that we're living in now? Cause you were just talking about as an artist, and I do think this is as a human being too, because we are all artists of our own lives. That the most important quality Is. And we don't live in a time where it feels like people are being empathetic towards one another.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Absolutely. And I think. Well, I think several things. One, I think we're living in a time of enormous moral clarity. That is what I felt the day after the election. I was like, okay, well, here are the things we can't go backwards on, because we've made immense strides towards LGBTQ rights. We made immense strides as a country that have taken a long time. We can't go backwards. And so I think everyone felt like, oh, I have these internal battle lines that are being drawn, and these are the things that we're gonna fight for. I don't know about you guys. I open Twitter like this now. Like, grimacing, like, what happened in the night? What am I about to read? I am so, you know, terrified because it just feels. And I think because of social media, it all just feels like it's happening even faster. Everything just feels like there's 20 things a day happening internationally, nationally, locally. And I think the thing that I challenge myself to do all the time and I fail all the time is, all right, what can I focus on? What won't let me go unless I do something about it? Because you can drown in how many people need help all over the world.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's right.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

And you have to pick. All right, what can I be effective at and what can I do? You know, the same. The success of Hamilton has offered me a really big megaphone. That's it. I don't. I'm not running for public office. I'm not doing anything like that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm not either.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

I heard that. You've divided the economy.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You and I both know that there's so much you can do. So much.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

I would argue that Oprah is a more powerful position than president.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you for that. But no, I think each person should use their platform. You use your platform, your platform, how you most see fit, and what is the most authentic for you?

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

How is Puerto Rico now?

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Puerto Rico is still a third without power. 40% without power. It's. How many months later, my parents hometown does not have power. They have been running on generators, waiting in line for gas for four months. The gas situation has eased. The money situation has eased because for a while, ATMs were putting a cap on how much you could even take out. And there are places that are harder hit and are still as if the hurricane happened yesterday. And there are places, metropolitan areas, where it's business usual.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And so when are you taking Hamilton there January 2019.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And what do you think that's going to be like for you doing it there?

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Well, here's the thing with the people.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Of Puerto Rico who've been through so much.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Well, it's impossible to talk about this without crying, so I'm just gonna cry while I talk.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Go ahead.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

I knew I was taking Hamilton to Puerto Rico the second we got our New York Times review, and I knew this thing was gonna run and have a tour. And the second I did my first Spanish language interview. The first question was, when are you going to Puerto Rico? I said, I don't know, but I promise I'll be Hamilton when it happens. And so we had been planning for about six months before Hurricane Maria even hit. And so all we did was expedite the announcement. But I did in the Heights there. In the Heights was the first equity.

[Trevor Noah]

Tour ever to go to Puerto Rico.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

And, yeah, and I jumped in. I jumped into a tour in progress to play USNAVI for a week. And it. I told you, it closed something in me I didn't even know was open. You know, to be a kid whose Spanish sounds pretty gringo to Puerto Ricans, spending a month, a year there and feeling a little out of place there. A little out of place at home, a little out of place at school. That's a great way to make a writer be a little out of place everywhere. And two, because you use it, you use it, you use it, and you're kind of always watching. To quote Sondheim, there's a part of you always sort of watching your interaction even as it's happening. And I played USNAVI there, and we did the show as I wrote it for New York and the love that came out of there. And, you know, I remember one review was like, this show is about our families who left. It's a dispatch. It's a dispatch from the people who left, and it's them telling us they're okay. And I told you. And so it was the most creatively and mostly fulfilling. So I knew I was gonna bring Hamilton back, and I knew I was gonna play Hamilton because I just wanted to feel that again. And so the fact that it is coming at a time when it can be of great use. Our goal is to basically have a third of the tickets be 10 bucks and affordable to Puerto Ricans on the island, and then really wildly overpriced the other tickets for tourists so that that money can restore arts funding in Puerto Rico. That's the goal. And then I get to do it for three weeks again.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Get to do it for three weeks again.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Yeah.

[Atruby Advertisement]

Do you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You know, when you did your Tony acceptance speech, you wrote a sonnet about Hamilton. You said, this show is proof that history remembers. We live through times when hate and fear seem stronger. We rise and fall and light from dying embers, remembrances that hunger, hope and love last longer. That feels like a prayer.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

It is. And it was a prayer that came out. Oh, thanks. It was a prayer that came out of a really tough day. I spent that morning, like, really, you know, 6am rehearsal at radio City. We have a record setting number of nominations, rehearsed our numbers, and then I get home and read about the worst shooting in our nation's history. It was the Pulse shooting that morning. And I would have loved nothing more than to just write a very sweet sonnet about my wife and all of my collaborators that night. But if this is training for anything, if what you're doing when you're writing is you're trying to meet the moment, you're trying to be that character and meet the moment. And that was a time when we were all in mourning, we were all grieving. And yet it was also a night for celebrating years and years of hard work. And so I was like, I can't freestyle rap to this moment. I will not be able to meet the moment that way. It demands something else. And so I started writing this sonnet. So it's speaking to both Hamilton and this notion that we're gonna go through trying times and we're gonna go through challenges. Lord knows we're going through challenges. But if we're survived by the people who love us and remember us, then we'll kind of go on forever.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love you.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

I love you. I love you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you for that. Just to be in this head. Thank you so much.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Welcome Yara Shahidi.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Hello lovely girl.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Hi everybody.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Get your love on for Yara. It's so much pressure to be you at this moment, I think. Do you? Yeah, I'm feeling it. You are being heralded rightfully so as this great spokeswoman, person, humanitarian for your generation. And I just ran across recently an old speech I had done when I was about your age, about 16 or 17, and it was entitled what Young People Want Today. And I was talking about something crazy like the generation gap between parents. But what I realized when I was looking at that, I really didn't know what young people want today. And it's really hard when everybody expects you to. Do you feel that?

[Yara Shahidi]

Well, first and foremost, I'm honored to be here.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you sitting with me.

[Yara Shahidi]

Thank you for saying yes, but of course. But quite honestly, I have to say I haven't had to feel too much pressure because I've been so fortunate to have support not only from my family, but from the world around me for being authentically myself. And so I've had the great fortune of not having to perpetuate a facade for the sake of love or support.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Every little thing you say sounds like a tweetable moment. Well, do you recognize how incredible that is, that you get to be a true. I say this to my daughters from South Africa. They literally are the born free generation, born after Nelson Mandela was elected president. But to be born free, not just physically free, but in heart and spirit, where you get to be. Because my definition of freedom is that you get to wake up in the morning and decide for yourself what to do with the day, to be born free in your heart and your spirit, to never have to pretend to be anybody else other than yourself.

[Yara Shahidi]

It is surreal to even think about. And I do have to say, I mean, just being able to benefit from the work of previous generations is something that I do not take for granted.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, I think for so long, not just your gender, because you're Generation Z. Yes. I don't need to know who the Y's are, but a lot of people get lumped in with Millennials. But you clearly are not. You're Generation Z. But, you know, the millennials, I think, have been labeled, I think, many times unfairly, as being this sort of me, me, me, me, me generation, when, in fact, I think that this generation is probably more woke than a lot of previous generations have been and are certainly aware of what they need to do to step into the moment.

[Yara Shahidi]

Quite honestly, I think it is a matter of access, though. Millennials and Gen Z, we've had, again, the great fortune of an incredible amount of access at such a young age, whether it's social media, whether it's just in general the digital age of being able to watch people who inspire us, being able to watch you, being able to watch all of these people and absorb wisdom now in which it doesn't matter where you are in the world to be able to learn these lessons at such a young age. And so there is a general awareness, and I think this administration has put extra pressure on my generation in particular, who felt as though they had time to grow into their political awareness, to really speed up, because we understand that the policies that are being implemented not only are a detriment to all of the work that's been done before us, but really will affect us as young adults.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And so how do you describe young. Your role right now in the culture?

[Yara Shahidi]

Oh, goodness. Well, I guess I'd have to say the One thing that I'm doing or one thing that I can point to that is happening currently is I'm turning 18 on Saturday. And it's also, this is my early birthday present. I'm launching an initiative called 18 by 18, which is to increase voter turnout and youth voter turnout for first time voters.

[Oprah Winfrey]

For midterms. Yes.

[Yara Shahidi]

And I think being blessed enough to be on a show like Black Ish, being on shows like Grown Ish, and to be able to work with people who I align with more than creatively but politically and philanthropically has given me such a lovely platform to then say, I have these opportunities to speak about what's affecting our generation. I have these opportunities to speak about what's affecting our world. And so now trying to turn that into quantifiable action with this initiative and see and impress upon everyone that midterms are such an important moment for us to reclaim our government.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I was just thinking, when I was 17, I remember going to the drugstore, waiting on Seventeen magazine. I didn't. I don't think I ever knew the word quantifiable action at 17. Well, happy birthday, early. Let's all say happy birthday to you. Oh, yeah. So how has the Blackish experience in informed more of who you are? I know it's not who you are.

[Yara Shahidi]

Right. But it has played such an integral part in who I am because I signed onto Black ish. I was 13, turning 14, and it was the first place in which I was in an environment of people who really wanted to continue conversations. So many times I have fellow actors, fellow peers who aren't as supported by production, by writers, to have politically aware conversations. And so to be able to be on a show in which that is our core goal really allowed us to have so many more conversations at such a young age in which we were talking about whether we were talking about our Hope episode in which we discussed police brutality. And they want to know how we feel as actors. So more than just how our characters feel, how do we feel? And so each episode brought with it a new conversation. And more importantly, I think it translated because then when I stepped off of something, more people wanted to continue the conversations that black ish started. And so it allowed me to go from there and just pick up where Black ish left off.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And so when grown ish came about, which Grown ish just got picked up for 20 new episodes. Fantastic. Yes, they did. When Grown ish came up, were you really excited or were you thinking, this is going to interfere with my school plans?

[Yara Shahidi]

It was a bit of both so grown ish came up. And funny enough, it happened the day after I submitted my own college applications. And so they understand everybody from writers to production understand how much I value my education. And we're doing our best to figure out how we want to make it work. But I feel pretty lucky to be able to make a commitment to a school and to be able to make a commitment to a show and gonna do my best to figure it all out.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I just believe you will.

[Marshalls Narrator]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I have no doubt.

[Yara Shahidi]

You said it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So now it's gonna happen. I know it's going to happen. So when you have all of this going for you, all of this going for you. First of all, your parents have done an incredible job. Thank you. Incredible job. You've done some stuff right there. Creating this powerful, independent woman. How do you keep yourself grounded?

[Yara Shahidi]

Well, one, you've heard the jingling of my chakra necklaces and my mic.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Uh huh.

[Yara Shahidi]

So that's one way for sure. But also I think my parents have done again, a great job of giving me my semblance of normalcy. And I guess my normal may be different than everyone else's normal, but at the same time they've always treated me as being a kid and being a human to be most important. And it may sound counterintuitive, but the one thing that they've always said is acting is something that we do, but it's not who we are. And that we're not allowing this one role in our life, even as instrumental as it is and even with as much time as we've dedicated to it to define our very existence. And so I've been able to enjoy school. I remember the first movie that I auditioned for. It was Imagine that. I ended up booking it. I played Eddie Murphy's daughter. And I remember it was the first big audition process ever and I was seven and there were like 10 auditions or it could be hyperbole. I was young so it's like felt like a lot. And I remember halfway through they were like, you know what? They haven't called yet, so let's go travel. And we went to travel and we actually went to Italy, which was amazing because I was so into Renaissance art and Renaissance history that I was able to see. But.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Of course you were. You're a powerful girl. You are powerful. About to be 18 years old. Thank you. This would be amazing, just amazing to talk to you. I just want to say something. I just want to say something to you. And I'm going to pass this on to you, you don't even need it. But when I did the Color Purple, it was the thing I most wanted to do in the world. I never wanted anything and haven't wanted anything more since, since doing the Color Purple. And when I finished it, because it was the thing I most dreamed of, I thought, I guess everything's over now. I guess it's all done. And Quincy Jones said something to me that I want to say to you. Baby, your future's so bright it burns my eyes.

[Yara Shahidi]

I receive that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you. Your future's so bright it burns my eyes. Thank you so much. Really, really, really, really, really, really. What a wonder girl you are. Wow. Before we go, keep your eyes on these two. They are on the rise. I want to thank comedians Phoebe Robinson and Jessica Williams from the popular podcast 2 Dope Queens for stopping by the Apollo. They had me in our audience laughing it up.

[Marshalls Narrator]

Jess and I were extremely excited, as you can imagine, when we were asked to come out. So we did, like, a little preparation because this is Oprah. It's a big deal. You don't phone it in. Ok. You don't roll up in your sweatpants. You gotta bring it in. So we both did a little prep. What did you do? I started a juice cleanse.

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And then.

[Marshalls Narrator]

I ended it six hours later. What did you do? I shaved my legs last night. That's great. After, you know, such a harsh winter we've had. And instead of just going, like, to here, I went up a little bit past my knee. That's amazing. Like, I went like that, to me is like, that's my journey. This is my. That's great. This is my moment. So I did that. And then last night, I started to listen to the audio book that I have of the power of now, which I love, just to get, like, connected. It was very spiritual. I'm going through a weird, cathartic crisis right now, but I'm feeling great up here. This is nice. Let's dig into it. I don't want to in front of everybody's appropriate. It's not appropriate.

[Atruby Advertisement]

Let's talk.

[Marshalls Narrator]

We have cheers. Let's talk about it. I love it.

[Yara Shahidi]

Let's not.

[Marshalls Narrator]

I can't either. Span. Well, honestly, I'm just questioning, you know, what my emotions are versus, like, what I choose to put back out there. Like, there's separation, right? And really it's about, like, learning, like, your emotions. They're real, but they're not, you know, they're valid, but you don't have to succumb to them. Right. I'M so proud of you. You have to talk these things out. You got to journal. How are you? Like how you said I have to journal. You got to talk to your parents. You got to reach out. You know, reach out. Watch, you know, old episodes of America's Got Talent. Yeah, yeah. Or like the Living Single uploads on Hulu. And done and done and done and done.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe, rate and review this podcast. Join me next week for another Super Soul Conversation. Thank you for listening.

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[Trevor Noah]

Let's say your small business has a problem.

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Like maybe.

[Trevor Noah]

One of your doggie daycare.

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Customers had an accident.

[Trevor Noah]

You might say something like, doggone it.

[Lin-Manuel Miranda]

Hi Chihuahua.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Holy schnauzers.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

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[Trevor Noah]

And get help filing a claim from.

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[Trevor Noah]

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