Super Soul Special: Thich Nhat Hanh: How to Listen with Compassion

Summary

Oprah’s Super Soul Special: Thich Nhat Hanh — How to Listen with Compassion

Podcast: Oprah’s Super Soul
Host: Oprah Winfrey
Guest: Thich Nhat Hanh
Date: March 11, 2026
Episode Focus: Exploring mindfulness, compassionate listening, and the transformative power of presence through an in-depth conversation with Vietnamese Zen Buddhist master Thich Nhat Hanh.

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Main Theme

In this deeply reflective episode, Oprah sits down with Thich Nhat Hanh (referred to as “Thay” by his students) to discuss the practice of deep listening and compassion. The conversation spans Thay’s spiritual beginnings, his journey through war and exile, the cultivation of mindfulness, how suffering interrelationships with happiness, and practical advice for integrating mindfulness and compassion into daily life and relationships. Thich Nhat Hanh shares transformative wisdom on presence, healing, and the art of listening with an open heart—tools that can help individuals, families, and even the world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Inspirations and the Beginner's Mind

• Thay’s spiritual journey began in childhood
  • At age seven or eight, inspired by a peaceful image of the Buddha (“He was sitting on the grass, very peaceful, smiling, and I was impressed... So I had the desire to be someone like him.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 04:07)
  • “Beginner’s mind”—the pure and strong desire to transform oneself and help others—continues to be a central source of energy and courage in Thay’s life. (05:09–05:19)

2. The Practice of Peaceful Presence

• Facing stress and challenges:

  • Thich Nhat Hanh emphasizes returning to mindful breathing and being deeply present in the moment, regardless of outside circumstances. (03:21)
    • “Go back to my breathing. And try to be in that moment deeply. Because there is a possibility to handle every kind of event, and the essential is to keep the peace in yourself.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 03:21

• Living as a monk:

  • Monastic life is about having time to practice for personal and collective transformation and healing (09:35)
  • “To be a monk is to have the time, enough time to practice for your transformation and healing. And after that, to help with the transformation and healing of other people around you.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 09:35

3. Mindfulness & The Miracle of the Present Moment

• Enlightenment and being alive:

  • Enlightenment is accessible through full awareness of being alive now.
  • “If you are aware that you are alive, and that is already a miracle, and the greatest miracle is to still be alive.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 09:57

• Practices to return to the present:

  • Mindful breathing, mindful walking, “going home to the present moment.”
    • “With a practice, you can always remain alive in the present moment.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 10:29

• Happiness in the now:

  • “If you are fully present in the here and the now, you need only to make a step or to take a breath in order to enter the kingdom of God. Happiness is possible in the here and the now.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 11:10

4. Suffering: Recognition, Embrace, and Transformation

• Embracing suffering as a practice:

  • Recognize, “embrace the suffering,” and understand its roots to transform it.
  • “Your pain, your anxiety is your baby. You have to take care of it... recognize the suffering in you. Embrace the suffering and you get a relief.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 11:48

• Suffering as a foundation for compassion:

  • Through understanding one’s own suffering, compassion arises to help others. (15:50)
  • “Peace begins with yourself. Understanding and compassion begin with yourself.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 15:50

5. Cultivating Happiness & Mindful Living

• Feed your happiness:

  • “Happiness is a living thing and we need to feed our happiness... The practice of mindfulness is to cultivate understanding and compassion. And that is the foundation of happiness.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 14:09

• Tea meditation:

  • Drinking tea can be a practice in full presence: “I don’t think of the past anymore. I don’t think of the future anymore. I am free from the past, from the future. And there is a real encounter between me and the tea.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 16:16
  • "It takes one hour to just enjoy a cup of tea." — Thich Nhat Hanh, 16:55

• Mindful walking:

  • "Every step can bring you solidity and freedom and joy... My home should be in the here and the now, because only in the here and the now that you can touch life with all the wonders.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 17:18

6. Exile, Nonviolence, and Meeting Dr. King

• Experiencing exile:
  • Thay describes the pain of being exiled from Vietnam, dreaming of home, and the necessity of practice to endure. (18:17–18:46)
• The struggle for peace:
  • Encouraged Martin Luther King Jr. to speak against the war; recognized Dr. King’s nonviolence as the work of a Bodhisattva (enlightened being). MLK was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by Thay. (19:39–22:09)
  • “The act of love and not of despair. And Jesus Christ died in the same spirit, out of love, being hung on the cross.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 19:39

7. The Practice of Deep Listening

• Listening with compassion:

  • “Deep listening is the kind of listening that can help relieve the suffering of the other person. You can call it compassionate listening. You listen with only one purpose, help him or her to empty his heart.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 24:45
  • Even if someone shares views based on wrong perceptions, continue listening with compassion; advice can come later.

• Role in ending conflict:

  • “If we are honest, if we are true, they will open their heart and tell us. And then we practice compassionate deep listening. And during the process of deep listening, we can learn so much about our own perception and their perceptions. And that is the best way, the only way to remove terrorism.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 26:41

8. Compassion vs. Anger

• Addressing anger:
  • “Anger is the energy which people use in order to act. But when you are angry, you are not lucid and you might do wrong things. That is why compassion is a better energy. And the energy of compassion is very strong.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 27:53

9. Interbeing, Suffering, and Happiness

• Core teaching:
  • “To be is to inter-be. It's like the left and the right...”
  • Suffering is the “mud” necessary to grow the “lotus” of happiness and understanding. (29:34–30:20)
  • “You cannot grow lotus on marble. You have to grow it on the mud.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 30:08

10. Everyday Practice and the Four Mantras of Love

• Meditation is constant:
  • “Not only every day, but every moment. While drinking, while talking, while writing, while watering our garden. It’s always possible to practice living in the here and now.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 30:35
• Mantras for loving presence:
  • 1. “Darling, I’m here for you.” (31:05)
  • 2. “Darling, I know you are there, and I am so happy.” (31:34)
  • 3. “Darling, I know you suffer. That is why I’m here for you.” (32:41)
  • 4. “Darling, I suffer. I try my best to practice. Please help me.” (33:57)
  • “If you can bring yourself to say that mantra, you suffer less right away.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 33:58

11. Daily Life, Community, and Living Simply

• Mindful movement & diet:
  • Movement, walking meditation, mindful eating, vegetarianism as environmental responsibility (34:04–34:20)
• Television & information diet:
  • Thay does not watch television but trusts important news will reach him. “You don’t have to listen to the news three times a day.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 34:44
• Women in monastic life:
  • Both monks and nuns, living in community; joyful, inclusive coexistence (34:52)

12. Death and Continuation

• What happens when we die:
  • The metaphor of the cloud: “When the cloud is no longer in the sky, it doesn’t mean that the cloud has died. The cloud is continued in other forms like rain or snow or ice.” — Thich Nhat Hanh, 35:17
  • “Meditation helps you to recognize her continued presence in new forms. And our nature is the nature of no birth and no death.” (35:54–36:54)

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• “Your pain, your anxiety is your baby. You have to take care of it.” — Thich Nhat Hanh (11:48)
• “If you are fully present in the here and the now, you need only to make a step or to take a breath in order to enter the kingdom of God.” — Thich Nhat Hanh (11:10)
• “To be is to inter-be... You cannot grow lotus on marble. You have to grow it on the mud.” — Thich Nhat Hanh (29:44, 30:08)
• “When you breathe in, and if you are aware that you are alive, that is already a miracle.” — Thich Nhat Hanh (09:57)
• “Deep listening is the kind of listening that can help relieve the suffering of the other person. You listen with only one purpose, help him or her to empty his heart.” — Thich Nhat Hanh (24:45)

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Important Timestamps

• Beginner's mind and early spiritual roots: (03:54–05:18)
• Mindfulness in action — stress & peace: (03:21; 10:29–11:36)
• Embracing and transforming suffering: (11:48–12:47; 14:38–16:15)
• Nonviolence and Dr. King: (19:39–22:09)
• Deep compassionate listening explained: (24:45–25:48)
• Mantras for loving presence: (31:04–33:57)
• Lotus & the mud (suffering and happiness): (29:34–30:20)
• Cloud metaphor for death and continuation: (35:17–36:54)

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Conclusion

This episode serves as a masterclass in mindfulness, compassion, and the art of listening deeply. Through poetic anecdotes, timeless metaphors, and concrete instructions, Thich Nhat Hanh illuminates how presence, breath, and inner stillness can transform both personal suffering and the world’s conflicts. His message is simple yet profound: true peace begins with ourselves, and listening with true compassion is one of our greatest tools to heal and connect—whether in family, community, or on the world stage.

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Transcript

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I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.

[Interviewer]

I believe that one of the most

[Oprah Winfrey]

valuable gifts you can give yourself is time. Taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. Born in 1926, the Vietnamese Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh is one of the most influential spiritual leaders of our time. Thich Nhat Hanh, or Thai as his students call him, Thai means teacher, is author of more than 100 books. A copy of his Living Buddha, Living Christ, Never Leaves my Bedside. His spiritual journey began at the early age of seven when he felt the calling to become a monk. But this monastic has always been active on the world stage. In the early 60s, horrified by the escalating civil war in Vietnam, Tai spearheaded one of the great nonviolent resistance movements of the 20th century. Martin Luther King Jr. Took notice and spoke out against the Vietnam War for the first time at Nhat Hanh's urging, and later nominated Thich Nhat Hanh for the Nobel Peace Prize. In 1982, thay established a monastery and retreat center in France where thousands of followers still flock every year. He lives there today, devoting his life to mindful meditation, helping people to be passionately present in the here and now. What a treat it was to finally meet Thich Nhat Hanh on one of his trips to New York City.

[Interviewer]

Well, thank you for the honor of talking to me today. Thank you for that. Already just being in your presence for a short time, I feel less stressed than I did when I started out the day. Less stressed because you have such a peaceful aura that follows you that you carry with yourself. Are you always this content and peaceful?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

This is my training, this is my practice and we try to live every moment like that, relax, dwelling peacefully in the present moment and respond to event with compassion.

[Interviewer]

So in a moment where you are perhaps going to miss a plane or be late for an appointment or something is causing you to Be stressful. And you do what?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Go back to my breathing. And try to be in that moment deeply. Because there is a possibility to handle every kind of event, and the essential is to keep the peace in yourself.

[Interviewer]

So let's start with 1926. Born in Vietnam. Any wonderful memory that you can share of your childhood, your favorite childhood memory.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

One day I saw the picture of the Buddha on a Buddhist magazine, and he was sitting on the grass.

[Interviewer]

How old were you?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Seven, Eight. And he was sitting on the grass, very peaceful, smiling, and I was impressed. Around me, people were not like that. So I had the desire to be someone like him. And I nourished that kind of desire until the age of 16, when I had the permission of my parents to go and ordain as a novice monk.

[Interviewer]

Did your parents encourage you or were they reluctant for this to happen to you?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

In the beginning, they were reluctant because they thought that the life of a monk is hard, difficult.

[Interviewer]

So this desire to become a monk started when you were seven years old?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yes. And what did that feel like? What did those urgings, that sense of this is what I must do or must become, what did that feel like?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

I would not be happy if I cannot become a monk. That is the feeling. We call it the beginner's mind.

[Interviewer]

Beginner's mind?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yeah. The deep intention, the deepest desire that one person may have. And I can say that since that time, until this day, this beginner's mind is still alive in me. It has given me a lot of energy, courage, in order to confront all kinds of difficulties that I encounter.

[Interviewer]

How would you describe beginner's mind? Is it that desire? Is it your purpose or is it your calling?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Everyone has a desire. But the desire to transform oneself, to transform one's affliction, suffering, in order to get free and help other people and change the world, that is a good desire.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

It's what a lot of people refer to as passion when you're passionate about your work.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Yes. It's the way I feel about my work most days.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

And you enjoy.

[Interviewer]

And I enjoy it. Yes. And so if people follow their passion, it's like following their beginner's mind. So what is the life of a monk like in this country? We just think of it, and I think a lot of people just think it's a lot of chanting and praying and being peaceful with yourself, living the

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

life of a monk. I got a lot of happiness and

[Interviewer]

peace, and it's a celibate life, the life of a monk. You never, as a boy, Dreamed of marrying or having children or had trouble with the idea of giving up marriage or children.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

One day I was practicing work, communication in a park in France. I saw a young lady, young mother with a beautiful baby. And in a flash, I thought that if I was not a monk, I would have a wife and a child like that. But that idea only lasted for one second. I thought I knew right away that my mission, my life, is a monk and is very strong. And I don't get lost in this kind of deviation of the mind. Yeah, yeah. Of the mind.

[Interviewer]

Deviation of the mind. So it was just a flash, a flashing moment. Having seen a woman and her.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

I recognized it, and I overcome it very quickly.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And other than that, never thoughts about it or a question, did I make the right decision or what could have been?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

No. I think because that intention is so strong that it can protect, it can keep you alive.

[Interviewer]

Yes. Let's talk about when you first arrived in America. You were a student at Princeton. And was it challenging for you as a Buddhist monk to form friendships with other students? Did you ever feel isolated or lonely in a world that wasn't acquainted with Buddhist monks?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Well, Princeton University was like a monastery. There were only male students at that time. And campus was very beautiful. And everything was new. The trees, the birds, the food. Everything is new. But I practice in order to get acquainted, to be in touch with all these wonderful things. The first time I used a radiator. Is a radiator a radiator? Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Like a heater?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

A heater. The heater was at Princeton. In Princeton. And the first four was in Princeton. It's beautiful when the leaves are falling.

[Interviewer]

Leaves changing.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

And in Vietnam, we did not see things like that at the time.

[Interviewer]

Were you wearing your monk robes?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes. Yes.

[Interviewer]

Is there a purpose for the robe other than just to clothe your body?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

To remind yourself that you are a

[Interviewer]

monk, that you are a monk?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And what does it mean to be a monk?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

To be a monk is to have the time, enough time to practice for your transformation and healing. And after that, to help with the transformation and healing of other people around you.

[Interviewer]

Are most monks enlightened or seeking enlightenment?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Enlightenment is always there when you breathe in. And if you are aware that you are alive, and that is already a miracle, and the greatest miracle is to still be alive.

[Interviewer]

Are you touching that space all the time? Because I get the impression often that everybody's just running in different directions but not doing exactly what you just said. Touching the miracle that you are alive.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

With a practice, you can always remain alive in the present moment. According to the teaching and the practice, it is possible to live happily right in the here and the now. And in our tradition, the practice of mindful breathing and the practice of mindful walking always help us to go home to the present moment in order to live deeply every moment of our daily life.

[Interviewer]

So it's about being aware and grateful for what we have in our lives?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And not just the material, but for the fact that we do have our breath.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

If you are fully present in the here and the now, you need only to make a step or to take a breath in order to enter the kingdom of God. Happiness is possible in the here and the now. And once you have touched the kingdom, you don't need anymore to run after objects of your craving, like power, fame, sensual pleasure, and so on.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so what if in this moment of mindfulness, you are being challenged? Do you go to your breath then? Or do you just not resist this challenging situation?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

The first mindful breathing and recognize the feeling. Recognize the situation and. And that help us not to give ourselves to be overwhelmed by the negative feeling like fear or anxiety. And you are still yourself. It's like a mother when the baby crying. She picks up the baby as she hold the baby tenderly in her arms. Your pain, your anxiety is your baby. You have to take care of it. You have to go back to yourself, recognize the suffering in you. Embrace the suffering and you get a relief. And if you continue with your practice of mindfulness and concentration, you understand the roots, the nature of that ill being, and you know the way to transform it.

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ready before, during and after your stay.

[Oprah Winfrey]

We've planned for the plot twists, so

[Interviewer]

support is always available. Because a great trip starts with peace of mind. You talk about feeding our happiness. How do we feed our happiness?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Happiness is a living thing and we need to feed our happiness in order for our happiness to last. It's like love. If you don't feed your love, it will die. And the practice of mindfulness is to cultivate understanding and compassion. And that is the foundation of happiness. And understanding is first the understanding of the suffering inside of you.

[Interviewer]

You use the word suffering a lot. Many people think suffering is, you know, dire starvation, poverty, not having enough, you know, food or clothing or when we think of suffering. But there are multitude, there are many ways of suffering. When you speak of suffering, you mean what I mean.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

The fear, the anger, the despair, the anxiety in us. Because if we know how to deal with this suffering, remove the suffering, and then we'll be able to handle problems of war and poverty and conflicts. If we have fear and despair in us, he cannot do anything to help remove the suffering in society.

[Interviewer]

Do you feel sorry for the world having this practice and knowing this peace and being able to walk around in your community? Do you feel sorry for the world and where we seem to be headed and all the strife and suffering of the world?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Once you have understanding of your own suffering, compassion arises in yourself. And you know how to transform your own suffering. And with that you can help other people do the same. Peace begins with yourself. Understanding and compassion begin with yourself. We have the practice of tea meditation.

[Interviewer]

Tea meditation?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yeah. So when you pick up your tea, you may like to breathe in in order to bring your mind back to your body and become completely, fully present in the here and now. I don't think of the past anymore. I don't think of the future anymore. I am free from the past, from the future. And there is a real encounter between me and the Qi. And peace, happiness and joy is possible during the time I drink my tea.

[Interviewer]

Well, I never had that much thought about a cup of tea.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

It takes one hour to just enjoy a cup of tea.

[Interviewer]

A cup of tea like this?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes, one hour. Brotherhood and sisterhood. And every moment is a moment of happiness.

[Interviewer]

We've been talking about mindfulness and you mentioned mindful walking. How do we. How are we mindful in our walking?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

When you touch the ground mindfully and every step can bring you solidity and freedom and joy. When you breathe out, you may like to make another two steps or three. And you say, I'm home. I'm home. I'm home. I have arrived, arrived. I'm home, home, home. My home should be in the here and the now, because only in the here and the now that you can touch life with all the wonders. And you are free from your regret concerning the past. You are free from your fear about the future. And you can touch life deeply with every step.

[Interviewer]

Let's go back to 1966, when you were invited to speak at Cornell. And shortly after that, you weren't allowed back into your country and were exiled for 39 years. How did you deal with those feelings? First of all, what did you feel at the time?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

I have left my community at home. I was like a bee taken out of the beehive. And if I don't practice, and then I would dry up.

[Interviewer]

Did you feel sadness?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Did you allow yourself to feel the sadness?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

In the first year of my being exiled, I dreamt almost every night of going home.

[Interviewer]

Can you explain to us, for people who don't understand, you were not allowed back in the country because you were, in essence, a peaceful warrior. You were practicing peace. They didn't appreciate your Buddhism. What was the reason you weren't allowed

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

back in the during the war? Well, the warring parties all declared that they wanted to fight until the end. And those of us who tried to speak out against the war, to speak about reconciliation between brothers and brothers, they did not want us to raise our voice.

[Interviewer]

So when you were a man without a country, you made another country, made a home in other countries, and the United States was one of them.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

How did you meet Martin Luther King?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

In 6-1-65, I wrote him a letter explaining to him why the monks in Vietnam immolated themselves by fire. I said that it's not a suicide because in a difficult situation like Vietnam, to make your voice heard is difficult. So sometimes we have to burn ourselves alive in order for our voice to be heard around. So that is out of compassion that you do that. The act of love and not of despair. And Jesus Christ died in the same spirit, out of love, being hung on the cross. And exactly one year after 6-1-66, I met him in Chicago, and we had that discussion about peace, freedom and community. And we agreed that without a community, we cannot Go very far.

[Interviewer]

How long was the discussion with him?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

45 minutes or so. And after that there was a press conference and he came out very strongly against the war in Vietnam.

[Interviewer]

Do you think that that was a result of your conversation with him?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

I believe so. And after that we continue our work. And the last time I met him was in Geneva during a peace conference called La Passem in Terrace.

[Interviewer]

There's an interesting story from that. I heard that you were running late. Can you tell me that story?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Martin Luther King invited me up for breakfast to talk over these issues again. And I was caught in a press conference downstairs. I came late. He kept the breakfast warm for me. And during the conversation I was able to tell him that the people in Vietnam called him a Bodhisattva, enlightened being, because of what he was doing for his people, his country, for the world.

[Interviewer]

The fact that he was doing it non violently.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes. That is the work of a Bodhisattva, of a Buddha, of an enlightened person, always with compassion and non violence. And when I heard of his assassination, I could not believe it. I thought that the American people have produced King, but I'm not capable of preserving him. I was a little bit angry at that time. I did not eat, I did not sleep. But my determination to continue the work building the beloved community continues always.

[Interviewer]

Always?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

What makes you laugh?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Anything that can help us laugh. If you talk to our young monastics, you'll find out you laugh.

[Interviewer]

Do you laugh a lot?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes, we laugh. We smile a lot in our community.

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[Thich Nhat Hanh]

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[Interviewer]

can't remember which book, but you talk about deep listening also.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Deep listening is the kind of listening that can help relieve the suffering of the other person. You can call it compassionate listening. You listen with only one purpose, help him or her to empty his heart. And if you remember that you are helping him or her to suffer less, and then even if he say things full of wrong perceptions, full of bitterness, you are still capable to continue to listen with compassion. Because you know that listening like that with compassion, you give him or her a chance to suffer less if you want to help him or her to correct his perception. And then you wait for another time. But for this, the time being, you just listen with compassion and help him or her to suffer less. And one hour like that can bring transformation and healing.

[Interviewer]

So I love this idea of deep listening because oftentimes when someone comes to you and they want to really vent, they want to purge whatever is going on inside them, people start talking and giving advice. So if you allow the person just to let whatever those feelings are to come out and then at another time come back to them with your advice or your comments, you would experience a deeper healing, that's what you're saying?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes. The fear, the anger and the despair is born on the ground of wrong perception. And we have wrong perceptions concerning ourselves and the other person. And that is the foundation for conflict and war and violence.

[Interviewer]

You've said that the only way we can begin to end war is due to communication between people.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes, and we should be able to say like this, dear friends, dear people I know that you suffer a lot. I have not understood enough of your difficulties and suffering. It's not our intention to make you suffer more. It is the opposite. So please tell us about your suffering, your difficulties. I'm eager to learn, to understand. You have to start like that loving speech. And if we are honest, if we are true, they will open their heart and tell us. And then we practice compassionate deep listening. And during the process of deep listening, we can learn so much about our own perception and their perceptions. And that is the best way, the only way to remove terrorism.

[Interviewer]

Terrorism or even difficulties between yourself and family members or friends.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And the principle is the same, no matter the conflict.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Terrorists. Anti terrorists. Father and son.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Right.

[Interviewer]

Yourself and your boss, yourself and your children. Your best friend.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Is there ever a place for anger?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Anger is the energy which people use in order to act. But when you are angry, you are not lucid and you might do wrong things. That is why compassion is a better energy. And the energy of compassion is very strong.

[Interviewer]

You've said in one of your most popular books, Living Buddha, Living Christ. What do you see the similarities between Buddha and Christ?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Jesus Christ is a Buddha of the west, and his teaching is also about understanding and compassion. In the Gospel, there is also the teaching of living happily in the present moment. In the Gospel according to Matthew, he said that don't worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow will take care of us. It's very clear. And give us the bread of today. We care about today. We live today. And if we know how to handle the present moment, we don't have to worry much about the future. If the present moment has peace and joy and happiness, then the future will have also.

[Interviewer]

The nature of Buddhism, as I understand, is to believe that we are all pure and radiant at our core. And yet we see around us so much evidence that people are not acting out of a sense of purity and radiance. How do we reconcile that?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Well, happiness and suffering, they support each other. They inter are.

[Interviewer]

They inter are inter are.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

To be is to inter be. It's like the left and the right. If the left is not there, the right cannot be there. So the same thing is true with suffering and happiness. Good and evil, they interact also in every one of us. There are good seeds and there are bad seeds.

[Interviewer]

And that's just the nature of being human.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yeah. There is the lotus that grow out of the mud. We need the mud in order to make the lotus. You cannot grow lotus on marble. You have to grow it on the mud.

[Interviewer]

Mud.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

So suffering is the kind of mud that we must be able to use in order to grow the flower of understanding and love.

[Interviewer]

Do you meditate every single day?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Not only every day, but every moment. While drinking, while talking, while writing, while watering our garden. It's always possible to practice living in the here and now. That's what we call meditation.

[Interviewer]

But do you ever sit silently with yourself?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Recite a mantra or not recite a mantra.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

We sit alone. We sit together.

[Interviewer]

The more people you sit with, the better though, right?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes. The collective energy is very helpful. I like to talk about the mantras that you just mentioned. The first mantra is, darling, I'm here for you. When you love someone, the best thing you can offer him or her is your presence. How can you love if you are not there?

[Interviewer]

That's a lovely mantra. Darling, I'm here for you.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

And you look into his eyes and you say, darling, you know something? I'm here for you. You offer him or her your presence and your true presence. You are not preoccupied with the past or the future, your project. You are for your beloved one. The second mantra is, darling, I know you are there, and I am so happy. Because you are truly there. You recognize the presence of your beloved one as something very precious. And you use your mindfulness to recognize that. Embrace your beloved one with mindfulness and she will bloom like a flower. To be loved means to be recognized as existing. And these two mantras can bring happiness right away, even if your beloved one is not there. You can use your telephone and practice

[Interviewer]

the mantra, Darling, I'm here for you, and darling, I know you're there.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

The third mantra is what you practice when your beloved one suffers. Darling, I know you suffer. That is why I'm here for you. Before you do something to help her, to help him. Your presence already can bring some relief

[Interviewer]

and the acknowledgment of the suffering or the hurting.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

And the fourth mantra is a little bit more difficult. That is when you suffer and you believe that your suffering has been caused by your beloved one. So you suffer so deeply and you prefer to go to your room and close the door and suffer alone. You get hurt and you want to punish him or her for having made you suffer. And the mantra is to overcome that. The mantra is, darling, I suffer. I try my best to practice. Please help me. You go to him. You go to her and practice that. And if you can bring yourself to say that mantra, you suffer less right away.

[Interviewer]

Darling, I suffer. Please help me.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Please help me.

[Interviewer]

So I'm going to ask just a few questions about Monkdom. Do you exercise to stay in shape?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes, we have the 10 mindful movements we do walk in meditation every day. We practice mindful eating.

[Interviewer]

Are you vegetarian or.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes, vegetarian.

[Interviewer]

Complete vegetarian. So you wouldn't eat an egg?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

No egg, no milk, no cheese. Anymore.

[Interviewer]

Anymore.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Because we know that mindful eating can help save our planet.

[Interviewer]

Do you watch television?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

No, but I'm in touch with the world. If anything happen, anything really important happened, someone will tell me.

[Interviewer]

That's the way I feel.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

I feel that way too. You don't have to listen to the news three times a day.

[Interviewer]

Can you be a woman and be a monastic? Are women allowed?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes. Yes. We have monks and nuns living in their own quarters.

[Interviewer]

So if you're female, you're called a nun.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Yes. And they can practice together two times a week. Sitting meditation, walking meditation. So it's very joyful.

[Interviewer]

My favorite book of yours is no Death, no Fear. What happens when we die?

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Do you believe it's like a cloud in the sky? When the cloud is no longer in the sky, it doesn't mean that the cloud has died. The cloud is continued in other forms like rain or snow or ice. So you can recognize your cloud in her new forms. If you are very fond of a beautiful cloud, and if your cloud is no longer there, you should not be sad. Your beloved cloud may have become the rain calling on you. Darling, darling, don't you see me in my new form? And then you not struck with grief and despair, your beloved one continues always. Meditation helps you to recognize her continued presence in new forms. And our nature is the nature of no birth and no death. The nature of a cloud. Also, a cloud can never die. A cloud can become snow or hell or rain. But it is impossible for a cloud to pass from being into non being. And that is true with your beloved one. She has not died. She is continued in many new forms. And you can look deeply and recognize herself in you and around you.

[Interviewer]

It's been my honor to talk to you today.

[Thich Nhat Hanh]

Thank you.

[Interviewer]

My honor. Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook.

[Interviewer]

If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe. Rate and review this podcast.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Join me next week for another Super Soul conversation.

[Interviewer]

Thank you for listening.

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