Super Soul Special: Trevor Noah: Born a Crime

Summary

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Super Soul Special: Trevor Noah – Born a Crime

Podcast: Oprah’s Super Soul
Host: Oprah Winfrey
Guest: Trevor Noah
Original Air Date: December 10, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this special episode, Oprah Winfrey sits down with comedian, author, and former The Daily Show host Trevor Noah to discuss his acclaimed memoir, Born a Crime. The conversation delves into Trevor's experiences growing up as a mixed-race child under apartheid in South Africa, his relationship with his resilient mother, and how humor became his survival tool. The episode explores identity, systemic racism, empowerment, and what it truly means to find your path amid unimaginable adversity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Power of Humor and Resilience

• Comedy as Survival: Trevor explains that comedy was a tool to process pain for his family and community.
  • “My whole life, comedy has always been a tool that I have used to process pain. ... When you're poor, like, being poor sucks, but being poor together makes it a lot better, right?... you start to enjoy the things that you do have, and that is each other.” (02:25, Trevor Noah)
• Living in Community: He recalls that laughter and connection were essential coping mechanisms, even in hardship.

Understanding Apartheid

• A System of Total Control: Oprah reads Trevor’s powerful explanation of apartheid.
  • “Imagine all three of those things happening to the same group of people at the same time. That was apartheid.” (03:44, Oprah Winfrey, quoting Trevor’s book)
• Evil Genius Design: Trevor likens apartheid to “studied racism,” emphasizing the meticulous, insidious nature of division not only between black and white, but within racial groups.
  • “Apartheid was an evil genius plan. It's amazing in its insidious nature.” (04:10, Trevor Noah)

Being “Born a Crime”

• Illegal Existence: Trevor discusses how being born to a black mother and a white father under apartheid rendered his very existence a crime.
  • “I was evidence of my parents’ crime. ... The fundamental problem with racism is that it's an idea that is defeated over and over again by people contradicting what people have been told.” (06:14, Trevor Noah)
• Hidden Childhood: His family had to hide him from authorities to protect him from being taken away.
  • “Sometimes I go hide and then I come out. And then only when I'm writing the book does my grandmother tell me, ‘Oh yes, we, we hid you under the bed, Trevor. We hid you because the police would come and if they found you then they would take you away.’” (05:52, Trevor Noah)

Searching for Identity

• Identity Amid Division: Trevor describes the confusion of growing up as a mixed-race child, identified by the state but not feeling different within his community.
  • “Identifying who you are is one of the toughest things you go through as a human being...compound that with a state that has defined you in a way that doesn't match with the world you're exploring.” (07:20, Trevor Noah)
• Education and Segregation: He shares an experience of being placed in a “smart” (white) classroom at a new school and choosing to join the black students, even when it was discouraged.
  • “I chose to go into the black class. And I'm sitting next to Oprah now.” (10:00, Trevor Noah)

The Force of His Mother

• A Love Letter: Oprah frames the memoir as a love letter to Trevor’s mother, calling her both “badass” and “ganster.”
  • “My mother had me...as a protest. ... I was my mother's punk ass sidekick.” (12:34, Trevor Noah)
• Possibility and Willpower: Oprah reads a moving tribute from the book about his mother’s vision.
  • “The highest rung of what's possible is far beyond the world you can see. My mother showed me what was possible. ... She found her way through sheer force of will.” (13:35, Oprah Winfrey quoting Trevor)

Poverty, Progress, and Gratitude

• Shared Humility: Oprah and Trevor reminisce about growing up using outhouses and how that experience shapes their appreciation for progress.
  • “It's like bungee jumping. I'm glad I did it, but I don't want to do it again.” (14:46, Trevor Noah)
• Family and Legacy: A lighthearted yet profound discussion about upgrading from outhouses to modern bathrooms signifies growth but also grounds their gratitude.

Understanding “The Black Tax”

• Transgenerational Burden: Trevor unpacks the “black tax,” the expectation on first-generation Black success to lift up entire families affected by histories of oppression.
  • “Apart from traces of systematic or systemic oppression...there’s also one underlying issue...the devastation that impacted your generational family.” (17:44, Trevor Noah)
  • “The greatest gift my mother gave me...‘I may not be able to give you one cent in this world, but I promise you, I will not give you the black tax. I will handle it. You go and fly in the world.’” (19:36, Trevor Noah)
• Guilt and Boundaries: Both discuss learning to set boundaries about what must be rebuilt and when to put oneself first in order to help others later.

Uplifting Character Above Opportunity

• Turning Down The Daily Show (at First): Trevor shares his incredible story of being called by Jon Stewart and turning down the initial invitation out of commitment to his fans in the UK.
  • “The voice on the other side says, hi, can I speak to Trevor Noah? ... Hi, this is Jon Stewart. ... I said no. ... I said, this is the greatest moment of my life, but I've worked so hard to get what I have in the uk. These people have bought tickets.” (22:42–24:14, Trevor Noah)
• Character Over Convenience: Oprah relates this choice to a story of Sidney Poitier, illustrating the rare power of holding to personal values even in the face of life-changing opportunity.

The Art and Intention of The Daily Show

• Purpose Beyond the Joke: Trevor emphasizes his goal is to pursue truth and critical thinking through comedy, inspired by mentors like Dave Chappelle and Chris Rock.
  • “Tell the truth, and that's where you'll find the funniest jokes. ... In pursuing the funny, I pursue the truth.” (27:13, Trevor Noah)
• Adapting with the World: He describes the show as an evolving organism that must reflect changing times, aiming to be “like water.”
  • “If anything, I wish for the show to be like water. It should be moving with the same force as it moves through ideas and conversations.” (30:39, Trevor Noah)
• On Outrage and Empathy in America: Trevor expresses concern for America’s growing partisan divide, warning of the dangers when people stop seeing each other as human.
  • “It feels like it is extremely divided along partisan lines. And conversations have shifted to a point where human beings no longer see a human being on the other side of this discussion.” (28:32–29:02, Trevor Noah)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On apartheid’s cruelty and his existence:
  “I was evidence of my parents’ crime.” (06:14, Trevor Noah)

• On his mother’s impact:
  “I was my mother's punk ass sidekick. … My mother was that person for me who stood up at a time when many people were afraid to stand up... she’s the example that I lived my life by...” (12:34, Trevor Noah)

• On gratitude and progress:
  “It's like bungee jumping. I'm glad I did it, but I don't want to do it again.” (14:46, Trevor Noah)

• On the ‘black tax’ and legacy:
  “You cannot give what you do not have. And so sometimes you have to build for ...” (20:23, Trevor Noah)

• On turning down Jon Stewart:
  “I said, this is the greatest moment of my life, but I've worked so hard to get what I have in the UK. These people have bought tickets.” (23:53, Trevor Noah)

• On the show’s purpose:
  “Tell the truth, and that's where you'll find the funniest jokes. … I pursue the truth, and if I find the truth, then the funny will marry with that.” (27:13, Trevor Noah) "If anything, I wish for the show to be like water. … I’m sailing in a direction, aiming for true north, but it’s shifting with the tide, and you’re constantly trying to keep the boat where it needs to go versus where you thought it should go.” (30:39, Trevor Noah)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [02:06–03:47] - Trevor and Oprah discuss apartheid, its impact, and Trevor’s childhood as the literal evidence of a crime.
• [05:23–07:08] - Trevor describes being hidden as a child and his identity struggles.
• [12:34–14:21] - Tributes to Trevor’s mother and her life philosophy.
• [14:46–16:36] - Reflections on poverty, gratitude, and family continuity.
• [16:45–20:36] - In-depth discussion of the black tax, generational impact, and personal boundaries.
• [22:42–24:32] - The unlikely, character-revealing story of how Trevor first refused, then ultimately took over The Daily Show.
• [27:13–31:38] - Trevor’s philosophy on truth, comedy, and adapting The Daily Show to a changing world.
• [28:32–29:43] - On America’s polarization and the necessity of empathy.
• [30:39–31:49] - Oprah and Trevor agree that creative work must flow “like water” and be guided by something bigger than oneself.

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Final Thoughts

This warm, candid conversation is as insightful as it is moving. Trevor Noah and Oprah Winfrey together shed light on the enduring power of resilience, the truth behind identity and injustice, and the unbreakable influence of a strong mother. Full of laughter, hard truths, and powerful takeaways, this episode offers a deep look into how the past shapes us, how humor heals, and how, step by step, it’s possible to rewrite your own story—and sometimes, the story of a nation.

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Transcript

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[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time. Taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now.

[Trevor Noah]

Welcome.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Trevor Noah. Trevor Noah. Trevor Noah.

I'm so happy to have you here.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you so much for having me. Wow.

Wow.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, my goodness. We. Let me just tell you, I have to say, I love this book. I love this book. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And really, I have to tell you, I am so impressed that you were able to bring this story to the world in a way that has such humor and such depth, such sincerity and such truth. Really fantastic.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you very much.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Amazing.

It's called Born a Crime, and I got to just tell you're going to love it. I've never heard of a comedian, actually, who grew up in apartheid South Africa under such extreme conditions and then being able to turn that around into comedy.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, I think that's really what I found comedy is for me. You know, my whole life, comedy has always been a tool that I have used to process pain. It's how my family communicates it. It's one thing we had. We always laughed. And you've been to Soweto. You've seen how we live there. You know, the weird thing is when I always say to people, when you're poor, like, being poor sucks, but being poor together makes it a lot better. Right? Because you're in it together and you don't. You don't. It doesn't discount the fact that you don't have. But then you start to enjoy the things that you do have, and that is each other. And so we laughed. We enjoyed ourselves. We had something that sometimes you don't have when you have too much, and that is the ability to focus on the human beings around you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But, you know, I thought this was the best example or definition of apartheid.

You say it was a police state, a system of surveillance and laws designed to keep black people under total control. A full compendium of those laws would run more than 3,000 pages and weigh approximately 10 pounds. But the general thrust of it should be easy enough for any American to understand. In America, you had the forced removal of the native onto reservations coupled with slightly slavery followed by segregation. Now imagine all three of those things happening to the same group of people at the same time. That was apartheid.

[Trevor Noah]

That was apartheid.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's beautiful explanation.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, beautiful explanation. That's really what it was. It was perfect and studied racism, you know, which is. It's disappointing sometimes when you realize how far some people will go, what lengths people will go to. To oppress other people. I always think to myself, with all of that talent, you know, I think of my high school teacher who'd be like, if you just applied yourself, young man, you could do so many good things for the world.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

I think of how many amazing things they could have done with South Africa with that same. Because apartheid was an evil genius plan. It's amazing in its insidious nature. And that's really what it was all about.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And so you were literally born a crime.

[Trevor Noah]

Right, right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Born a crime.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It was illegal for a European to cohabitate, to have sex.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes. To have carnal intercourse or interaction with any person of another race.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That was a law.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And it was a law that if you were a black person, you could not be.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Right.

[Trevor Noah]

Everyone was separated. And so black and white and even smaller groups within race. You know, in America, oftentimes it's just black and white when the discussion is had. But in South Africa, they were meticulous. So it's black and white with. Within black. Black was divided into all different tribes. And those tribes were separated from one another. And then even within different races, like Asian people separated. Japanese, a different class to Chinese and Indian, a different class to other types of Asian. And this was a system designed to make sure that every group was small and oppressed in a different way.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's right. And speaking different languages. So Nobody could communicate. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And you, when you were a little boy, they had to hide you.

[Trevor Noah]

Which is something I didn't know, by the way. That was. That's like one of the most fascinating things. That's why I always credit my mother, my grandmother, my family, because we take for granted when like as adults, the ability we have to shape the view of the world. Our children are.

[Oprah Winfrey]

They were hiding you to save you from yourself because you could have been taken away from them.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. And I didn't know this. Yes, I was. Imagine this. I'm a little kid growing up. They just tell me sometimes to go and hide under the bed. In my world, I go, I have the coolest parents in the world.

Sometimes I go hide and then I come out. And then only when I'm writing the book does my grandmother tell me, oh, yes, we, we hid you under the bed, Trevor. We hid you because the police would come and if they found you then they would take you away. So we had to hide you. And I'm like, how did I not know this my entire life? And my grand goes, you never asked, really?

[Oprah Winfrey]

And explain why they had to hide you.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, because I was, I was evidence of my parents crime. So here's the fundamental problem with racism is that it's an idea that is defeated over and over again by people contradicting what people have been told. And that is black and white cannot mix, colors cannot mix. And when people mix, they prove that it can happen. They prove that you can have beautiful children. They prove that love can cross color boundaries. And so now a person like me is a product that creates a. So the police would take a child like me. My skin tone is called colored in South Africa. And so colored would be removed into a colored community. So I couldn't be the child of a black woman, couldn't be the child of a black person, because by the law I was superior to a black person. But I couldn't be with a white parent either, because by the law, you know, the white person was superior to me. And so you would have to keep each person in their group to maintain a system that truthfully doesn't make sense.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So how do you figure out who you are? You tell a beautiful story of the time you were sent to this model C school, I think it was, and they say to you, you're gonna be in this class A. Right, right. Okay, explain that.

[Trevor Noah]

You know the hardest thing growing up in life, and it's funny, identifying who you are is one of the toughest things you go through as a human being, regardless of the world around you. I mean, just growing up, when you're a child, who are you? You know, how do you see your gender? How do you see your personality? How do you see everything you are as a human being? And now compound that with a state that has defined you in a way that doesn't match with the world you're exploring. I lived in a world where the only people I saw were black around me. And because I don't walk around with a mirror, I only saw myself as the people around me that was the mirror for my world. And then.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So you didn't see yourself as a light skinned person?

[Trevor Noah]

No, I just, I just saw myself as somebody. I was Trevor.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

That's all I knew myself as. And in the family, no one said, come here light skinned kid. They were like, it's Trevor, you know, so you, you grow up.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Has it never occurred to you that, oh, my skin is lighter than theirs? Oh, no.

[Trevor Noah]

Kids would say that's the same way. They would talk about a fat kid or a skinny kid or a tall kid or a short kid. It was a characteristic of yours.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

And so it was also never something that people used to exclude Me growing up in the township, that was the fun thing is we grew up in the hood and kids would tease you about what you had. And in a weird way it was them going, we recognize you, we see you. Okay, and now let's play together.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Uh huh.

[Trevor Noah]

And so for the first time, I was lucky. When apartheid ended, my mother got a bursary for me to go to a private school. And in the private school, it was the first generation of mixed bursary's like a scholarship. Like a scholarship, yeah. And so I was one of the first generation of kids to be in a mixed environment. And so I thought that that was the world. I thought everyone was the same. We were all given school uniforms, we all had the same reading materials. So nobody had a class, everyone.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Was this your first time around white people?

[Trevor Noah]

No, because my dad, church. These are places where I'd seen white people. I experienced white people.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But you didn't experience them as white people.

[Trevor Noah]

Exactly.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You used to experience your dad as your dad.

[Trevor Noah]

Exactly.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Not as a white person, as a dad.

[Trevor Noah]

And that's a strange world to be introduced to.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Is when for the first time you start to learn about how races interact with each other and how races treat one another in a country. And that happened to me when I went to my first public school when the teacher said to me, these Are your tests to come into the school? These are your marks. You should go to this class. I went to the class, it was only white kids, and I didn't think it was abnormal until I went to recess. And then there was a flood of black children that came out of nowhere. And I was like, where are you guys from?

And they were like, oh, we're in another class. And I was like, well, this. I feel like I want to be in that class. I understand your languages. I connect. Where the hell are you? And then my teacher said to me, you can't go to that class because that's not the smart class. You want to be in the class you're in. And she said, if you go there, the rest of your life may not go in the direction you want it to. And I chose to go into the black class. And I'm sitting next to Oprah now.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You have your own Daily Show.

No, When I read that in the book, I mean, you've got to have that teacher on your show.

[Trevor Noah]

I should actually. Your honor.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You gotta do that. You gotta bring that teacher, and you gotta open the book. You gotta read from that page, and then you gotta say, come on out, Mrs.

And sit in my seat on the Daily Show. Yeah.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. So in all of those years, the thing that really got me about this book, and I actually read a review of it that said it's a love letter to your mother completely. I mean, you and your mom. First of all, your mom, she's a badass, man. She is just a badass warrior woman. To have said she on purpose, intentionally wanted to have you. Knew it was against the law. Knew it was against the law to be with a white person. Say, I'm gonna do it anyway, right? Yes. And I'm gonna have this child, and I'm gonna raise this child the way I want to raise this child.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Most people would have a sign to protest government oppression. My mother had me. Um.

And, you know, in. In. In telling my story and writing this book, I never thought it was about my mom. I think most of us believe that we're the heroes of our story.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And in writing the story, I realized that I was my mother's punk ass sidekick. I, you know, I. I genuinely. I didn't set out to write it about my mother at all. I just. I was telling my story and. And it's funny how you sit down and then you come to realize the people in your life who have shaped you and who play a big role in who you are. And I can't deny that my mother was that person for me who stood up at a time when many people were afraid to stand up, when a country was being punished for standing up. And she said, no, as a woman and as a black person, I will live the way I believe I'm allowed to live, whether you tell me I can or not. And she did that. And so because of that, she's the example that I lived my life by without realizing the consequences. And that, for me, is one of the most gangster human beings you can shape yourself.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, yeah, your mom's gangster.

So this, I thought, on page 73 was one of the greatest tributes. You said the highest rung of what's possible. Listen, y', all, the highest rung of what's possible is far beyond the world you can see. My mother showed me what was possible. The thing that always amazed me about her life was that no one showed her.

I know y' all like that part.

No one chose her. She did it on her own. She found her way through sheer force of will. An amazing gangster mom, really. And she had this crazy Volkswagen beat up car. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

My mom, till this day, refuses to buy a new car, refuses to live in the world of money. Refuse. She just does her own thing. She has, like, her little garden in the backyard. She raises chickens. She lives. She just goes to church. She is.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're the only person I've interviewed that I can remember who's a famous person who grew up poorer than I did. I mean, the fact that we could talk outhouses, I mean, it's pretty good.

[Trevor Noah]

That's insane, right?

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's insane. Yeah. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And that's a weird experience that not many people can understand fully is like growing up with an outhouse. Like, it's just a hole in the ground. You do your thing. It's a humbling experience. And I also. It's like bungee jumping. I'm glad I did it, but I don't want to do it again.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That is true. You know what I mean? But I love. On the first night of your show, you were saying the two things you didn't think were possible.

But the truth is, doesn't it make. How many bathrooms do you have now?

[Trevor Noah]

I have two. Three. Three. Three.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Three bathrooms.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Three. That's just in America. I've got, like. I've got, like, three more back home. I'm balling, Oprah. Balling. I'm balling out of control right now.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Every time. Every time. I think I've got five in my house right now. Five. Sorry.

[Trevor Noah]

Ok, well, you're Oprah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, Okay, I got five. But every time, I mean, there are moments still when I'm in the bathroom and that whole, like, being able to flush it and it's right there and blah, blah, blah.

[Trevor Noah]

All of it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's fantastic.

[Trevor Noah]

All of it, isn't it? People think this is a joke, but, like, go. Here's the thing as well. My.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Cause the outhouse is the thing you never forget.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

First of all, you never forget the smell.

[Trevor Noah]

No. You just can't never forget because it doesn't go away. There's no flushing.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

There's no. It's just. It's perpetually existing. What you did yesterday will be told to you today. Like, it's always there. It always. And your family stories are told to you as well. It's just you exist in a. But. But like.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you had a fear of going to the outhouse. I always thought I was gonna fall in. Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

You think you're gonna fall in.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm gonna fall in.

[Trevor Noah]

And, God, I heard stories of people falling in. People always said someone fell in. And I was like, I don'. I don't know who fell in, but I believe the story.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Fell in. Yes. Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

And. And here's the thing. My grandmother still lives in the same house we grew up in. And now we've converted the outhouse into a flushing toilet, which she. My grandmother, insists on keeping outdoors. Cause she likes it. Cause she doesn't like the idea of a toilet that's indoors. She goes like, that's ridiculous. Why would I want that happening inside my house? So.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So my.

[Trevor Noah]

So when I go to my grandmother's house, I'm like, it's completely the same thing, the same door, the same world that I experience. Because my grandmother's like, no, I love this.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, so what I also love is that you talk in the book about the black tax.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That white people don't know nothing about. But black people have a black tax' cause you're expected. Explain the black tax.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. And this is one of the hardest conversations to have with people is like, you know, oftentimes we get into conversations, especially today, where white people will say, not all, but white people will have a conversation where they say, I don't understand why a black person feels so oppressed. We've lived the same lives. We've grown up the same way. Yes, I understand. Maybe your parents were oppressed, but now you're free, so what's the issue? And then what you come to realize is, apart from traces of systematic or systemic oppression that still exist, there is also one underlying issue, and that is the devastation that impacted your generational family. Like. Like those are things that you take for granted. Even if you say, well, my grandfather wasn't rich. I got nothing from him. Yeah, but you got opportunity, you got knowledge, you got ideas, you got thinking that many black families were robbed of. And so I think what happens is.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think it's so important, you know? And I've done hundreds of shows over the years of the Oprah show, and I remember actually being in an audience talking about race, and a white woman said exactly that to a black guest. I didn't do it to you. Why should I still feel bad? Cause I didn't do it to you. That was your grandmother's and great grandmothers. And I was trying to do exactly what you just did. Explain. What if your grandmother had never been allowed to work as anything other than a maid? Right. What if your grandfather could never find a job? What if nobody in your family was ever treated like they were a full human being? Would that have any impact at all on you? Do you think you would have felt any of that?

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So that's what you're. You're saying.

[Trevor Noah]

And essentially, you know what? The best way I. It's funny, it happened the other day when I was watching a documentary on Hurricane Sandy in New York and in New Jersey, and I was looking at the effects. And after. After the hurricane hit, people were devastated. Businesses were demolished, and the government stepped in and said, we will give you subsidies. We will give you low interest loans. We will help you get back on your feet. Because the people understood that that devastation needed to be corrected. And so if that has happened to a people, if there has been a hurricane of racism that has obliterated people, wouldn't you then need to come back in and say, we will help you get back on your feet because you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Have lost everything you recognize of what happened to you.

[Trevor Noah]

And essentially, that's what in many ways, the black tax is, is that that the first generation of success for many black people means you now have to go back and work on correcting everything. I have to get my brothers through school. I have to get my family through school. I have to get my younger cousins through school. I have to get. Because you are the first of an entire family to experience that success. And the greatest gift my mother gave me, and she always said it was my son, I may not be able to give you one cent in this world, but I promise you, I will not give you the black tax. That's the one thing I'll keep from you. I will handle it. You go and fly in the world.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, you know, it's so interesting because one of my girls, Mahal, stand up. Hey, Mahal. It's one of my daughters from South Africa. And I say this to the girls all the time, that that's going to be the greatest burden unless you free it from yourself, that you get to decide what that tax should be. Right. Nobody else gets to tell you, because just the fact that you can free yourself, that is what your ancestors would have wanted for.

[Trevor Noah]

There's also a guilt attached with it, you know, and that's. And that's something my mother learned the hard way, is she had to go on a journey where she left the family because she realized she needed to build before she could give back. Yeah. And sometimes as human beings, we exist in a space and this is beyond race, where we have people who need from us, and we haven't built for ourselves yet. And you cannot give what you do not have. And so sometimes you have to build for.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Trevor's gonna preach now.

[Trevor Noah]

It's true, though. You cannot give what you do not.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Have preached.

[Trevor Noah]

That is so true. You know if you build it for yourself first then you can give it to others.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you. You're so right about that.

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[Commercial Narrator]

Thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree.

[Trevor Noah]

Zoe this thing weighs a ton. Drew Ski lift with your legs man.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Santa Santa, did you get my letter?

[Trevor Noah]

He's talking to you Bridges. I'm not. Of course he did. Right Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list and elf I'm 6 3. What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and at T Mobile you can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. Right Mrs. Claus?

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Trevor Noah]

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[Commercial Narrator]

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[Trevor Noah]

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[Commercial Narrator]

And the best part?

[Trevor Noah]

You can make the switch to T.

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Nice.

[Trevor Noah]

My side of the tree is slipping. Kimber the holidays are better. AT T Mobile switch in just 15 minutes and get iPhone 17 on us with no trade in needed. And now T Mobile is available in US cellular stores with 24 month bill credits for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge.

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[Trevor Noah]

Eligible for it in a new line $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes fees required. Check out 15 minutes or less per line.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Visit t mobile.com I just want to know because I kept waiting in the book for you to tell us how you ended up on the Daily Show. How did that happen to you?

[Trevor Noah]

That was one of the most surreal experiences ever. I was, for the first time, touring the world. I had just started touring in the uk, and I was doing comedy in the world, which was a lifelong dream for me. And I was walking through Harrods. I'll never forget this. It's a crazy store where they sell everything that nobody can afford, most of us cannot afford. And so I was walking around looking at just crazy things in the world. And my phone rings, and it's an American number. And I answer. And the voice on the other side says, hi, can I speak to Trevor Noah? And I said, speaking. And the voice said, hi, this is Jon Stewart. And I said, uh, yes. Cause I'm. I'm not thinking it's the Jon Stewart. It's like if I got called by someone and said, I'm Oprah, I'd be like, oprah Stevenson.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oprah.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm not just gonna jump to, like, oprah, of course, Oprah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hello.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, Oprah. I don't know which Jon Stewart is calling me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And so I said, jon Stewart? Fri. He said, oh, I'm sorry. I'm Jon Stewart. I host the Daily show in America. You may have heard of it. I was like, yeah, of course I've heard of the show. And he said, well, I've seen your comedy, and I'm a big fan of yours.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Where had he seen your comedy?

[Trevor Noah]

On YouTube.

[Oprah Winfrey]

On YouTube?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. And then he said, hey, I was wondering, if you ever come to America, would you like to pop into the show and hang out? I think you'd like what we do, and maybe we could hang out.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You said, I'm gonna be there next Tuesday.

[Trevor Noah]

And funny enough, no. I said no.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You said no?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, you. Like I said, this is the greatest moment of my life, but I've worked so hard to get what I have in the uk. These people have bought tickets. This is the most important thing that's ever happened to me. Thank you, but no. And he. He paused and he said, are you seriously saying no? And I said, yeah, but I'm. Thank you, but thank you, but no.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Cause Was he asking you to leave? Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, I knew I would. I knew that I would have to cancel my tours. I'd have to go to the U.S. i'd have to. And I was like, no. I've worked for. I've worked for these people. I've worked for. I don't take My fans for granted.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I respect that.

[Trevor Noah]

I respect that. And so I did that. And John said, well, when you ever do come to New York, look me up and let's hang out. And I did that a year and a half later.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And a year and a half later.

That's pretty amazing.

That's pretty amazing. That reminds me of story. Well, I won't tell it here about Sidney Poitier. Ok. No, it's not even about me. It's a story about character. I mean, I hadn't heard that story that you're just telling. And that is the sign of true character. And I remember early on doing an interview with Sidney Poitier where he had told of really wanting to be in the film industry. And he'd gone to audition for this role. He was making less than a dollar an hour as a dishwasher, and this role was going to pay him $700 a week. Wow. And it was the role of a janitor, which he said he didn't have problems being a janitor, but the janitor's daughter gets murdered and the daughter is thrown out onto the lawn. And he said he wouldn't do anything his father wouldn't have done and he wouldn't take the role because he thought it would bring dishonor to his father to play a father who would allow his daughter to be thrown out in the lawn. So he turned down the role. Wow. Turned down the role. And after he left, the guy says, who is that guy that would turn down that role? And that guy ended up being his agent for over 50 years after that. But it's the sign of character to say, even though I got the call, that most people wait for their entire lives, I have a responsibility and a respect for my fans, and I won't take the call. I just. That's really good. Your mama raised a really good son. It's really good.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So were you surprised when they said, we want you now to step in and do it?

[Trevor Noah]

I was. I was surprised because I. I, in my world, I had no chance. But I come from a world where there was no chance. So every chance I've taken is the one that's impossible. I always say to people, why do the possible thing? It's boring. If you succeed, like, do the impossible thing, because if you don't get it right, people like, you weren't gonna get it right. And if you do, you did the impossible. And so for me, it was like, yeah, I'll throw my name in, and if I don't get the Daily Show. I was never meant to get the Daily show, but if I get it, this is something that I would have never dreamed of doing. And so they called me. I was doing shows in Dubai and I got a phone call. And they said, hey, we've looked through everyone. We've gone through all our decisions. Would you like to be the host of the Daily Show? And if I wasn't sitting down, I would. I would have fallen over. I would have fainted. It was mind blowing. And I couldn't get alcohol. Cause I was in Dubai. They're like, I couldn't go. I was just like, I'm so happy.

It was everything. It really was.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And what is your intention with the show every night? It's not just about the funny.

[Trevor Noah]

I think in many ways it is about the funny for me, but it's how I see the funny that defines the show. So I've come to realize, and this is partly by speaking to great comedians who have been mentors and friends in my life. You know, the likes of Dave Chappelle and Chris Rock and Eddie Murphy and reading about Richard Pryor and Dick Gregory. People who said to me, the truth is where the funny lies. Tell the truth, and that's where you'll find the funniest jokes. And so for me, in pursuing the funny, I pursue the truth. And if I find the truth, then the funny will marry with that. And so in creating the show, I'm somebody who loves engaging in the news. I love discussing ideas. I love engaging in conversation and in debate. And so every good time. Oh, yeah, I love it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Every single day is a journey. Well, you can see you're having a good time.

[Trevor Noah]

Every single day is a journey for me. And for me, it's. It's. It's. The purpose of the show is to engage in the news in a manner that is critical in its thoughts. To think about what's happening, process it, react to it, and most importantly, give it the respect that it deserves, whilst not also giving it the power to completely control your emotional states.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Absolutely. I read where you said you believe we've reached a tipping point of outrage and injustice. That's pretty profound coming from somebody who's lived through apartheid.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, it's worrying when you look at what's happening in America, you know, in some parts of the world as well. But America's getting to a place where it feels like it is extremely divided along partisan lines. And conversations have shifted to a point where human beings no longer see a human being on the other side of this Discussion. And it's tough to say that one side should be empathetic towards the other side when the other side doesn't see them as human beings.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Uh huh.

[Trevor Noah]

And that's a fundamental breakdown that seems to be happening in America. And you can't deny. And, and this is my thing is I tell people all the time, they go like, oh, if you hate America, why? I'm like, yeah, I never said I hate.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love it.

[Trevor Noah]

If I. If I didn't love it, I wouldn't be here. This is a great place. I enjoy America. I love Americans. I have a great time. Having an issue with Donald Trump doesn't make me unique because every Republican saw it before he was in office, you know, and so if, as you said, going back to character, if your character shifts depending on who's in power, then was it your character to begin with?

That's. That's the way I see it. So.

So I don't think in this instance, and I mean, there are many people who consider themselves conservatives who till this day go, no, this party. I don't recognize this man. I do not recognize. And I cannot go with this because he does not espouse my views that I have proclaimed for such a long time. And so I think anyone who's honest in that sphere understands that it's not about partisan anything. It's about seeing what you see, pointing it out, and speaking your truth.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Do you feel you hit a stride?

[Trevor Noah]

You know, it's interesting. I listened to your podcast about when you were creating your show.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Mm.

[Trevor Noah]

And when you're creating a show, especially when it's daily, there are moments where you feel like you. I always feel like I've hit my stride in moments after a break. Like, I'll go away for two weeks and then we come back and kick off the show. And it's almost like there's muscle memory that works without me trying.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

But I don't ever think that I've hit my stride. It's very much like an athletic event. You're always trying to be better, you're always interesting.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So by stride, I mean, do you think you've found your way?

[Trevor Noah]

I think I've reshaped how I've seen the show. Because when I first started the Daily show and when I took over the seat from Jon Stewart, I had an idea of what I wanted the show to be. I've now come to realize that I am existing and the show is existing as an organism in a world that is constantly changing. And so I cannot give it A concrete definition, because the world around it is constantly shaping how it reacts. Okay. So if anything, I wish for the show to be like water. It should be moving with the same force as it moves through ideas and conversations. And sometimes the show will be a vessel for me to express my catharsis and the catharsis of the people watching. Sometimes it's a place. Sometimes it's a praise for us to enjoy laughter. Sometimes it's a praise for us to learn something new. I think it's about finding an authentic way to express a point of view in and around what the news is every single day. That's what I'm trying to do on the show, but I've come to realize there is no fixed point. I'm sailing in a direction, aiming for true north, but it's shifting with the tide, and you're constantly trying to keep the boat where it needs to go versus where you thought it should go.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You got it. That's it.

[Trevor Noah]

That's it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's it. That is it. That is it. You have to let it guide you because it's bigger than you.

[Trevor Noah]

Exactly.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you are there to be used by it. And so you allow it to take you where it needs to go. It is my great pleasure and delight to you.

[Trevor Noah]

My honor, thank you so much.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Great pleasure and delight. Sabrina. Born a crime. Get the book.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you so much.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe, rate and review this podcast. Join me next week for another Super Soul Conversation. Thank you for listening.

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