Zainab Salbi: Giving Women a Voice

Summary

Oprah’s Super Soul: Zainab Salbi – Giving Women a Voice

Date: June 24, 2026
Host: Oprah Winfrey
Guest: Zainab Salbi, humanitarian and founder of Women for Women International

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Episode Overview

In this deeply moving and illuminating conversation, Oprah sits down with Zainab Salbi, renowned activist, humanitarian, and the founder of Women for Women International. Drawing on her own life story—growing up in Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, surviving trauma, and dedicating her life to empowering women affected by war—Salbi and Oprah discuss the power of speaking one's truth, the hidden labor and resilience of women in conflict zones, the transformative potential of vulnerability, and the essential role of faith, forgiveness, and love in personal and global healing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Genesis of a Humanitarian Mission

• Zainab’s childhood in Iraq, raised amid war and fear, and her father's role as Saddam Hussein’s pilot, shaped her understanding of isolation and trauma ([04:23]).
• At age 23, newly married in the US, she chose not to go on her honeymoon but to travel to Croatia and Bosnia to help women survivors of war ([04:47]).
• Early on, Zainab was taught by survivors themselves not to single out only those subjected to sexual violence—true empowerment required including all women ([05:00]).
• “Knowledge is not by being educated. Everyone has access to wisdom and knowledge.” – Zainab Salbi ([05:30]).

2. Breaking Silence, Owning the Narrative

• Zainab shares a profound encounter with Nembitu, a Congolese woman, who wanted her story told to spare others from the same suffering ([06:18]).
• This exchange led Zainab to realize she must do her own “soul work” and speak about her own traumas—including her connection to Saddam Hussein—before asking others to share ([07:47]).
• “How dare I ask any woman to speak up if I don't speak up myself?” – Zainab Salbi ([07:48]).

3. The Weight and Liberation of Shame

• Zainab grappled with deep shame about her childhood proximity to power and violence, fearing she’d be judged or rejected ([10:21]).
• She describes the act of telling her story as a “leap of faith,” expecting condemnation but receiving empathy and connection instead ([10:21]-[11:03]).
• “For me, shame is like a spider web on ourselves.” – Zainab Salbi ([11:25]).
• “When you own your story and you tell it…you are liberating yourself in the process.” – Zainab Salbi ([11:25]).

4. The Healing Power of Storytelling

• Releasing the story is the start of healing; holding onto it sustains internal suffering ([13:01]).
• “The story at that point does not define them. They define the story.” – Zainab Salbi ([13:01]).
• “You are the change you want to make in the world.” – Zainab Salbi ([13:15]).

5. Family, Betrayal, and Survival

• Zainab recounts her mother sending her to America for an arranged marriage, which at the time felt like betrayal, but was in fact an act to protect her from Saddam’s predatory attention ([15:01]-[16:18]).
• Surviving marital abuse and isolation, Zainab left her husband after three months, starting anew in the US with just $400 ([16:36]).
• “What you choose to do with your story is a choice.” – Zainab Salbi ([17:14]).

6. The Power of Ordinary Acts of Resistance

• Acts of daily living—baking bread, continuing music lessons, or creating joy for children in bomb shelters—are powerful forms of resistance that women enact during war ([21:02]-[22:21]).
• “Peace is not the ending of fighting only. Peace is actually the building of life.” – Zainab Salbi ([22:21]).

7. Beauty and Self-Acceptance

• Zainab learning from survivors that feeling and expressing beauty—like wearing lipstick in a war zone—is itself an act of dignity and rebellion ([23:27]).
• Through meditation and self-reflection, Zainab came to see her own beauty for the first time ([24:31]).
• “Loving oneself is part of loving God.” – Zainab Salbi ([25:47]).

8. Spiritual Practice and Connection

• Meditation, grounding, and gratitude are essential to how Zainab restores herself amidst trauma ([27:43]).
• God, for Zainab, is “everything”—in nature, in oneself, present everywhere ([28:15]).
• The rituals of religion are distinct from its spirit, which calls us to love and presence ([29:09]-[30:00]).

9. Truth, Faith, and Forgiveness

• Zainab’s life mission: “Speak the truth, live the truth, be my truth.” Witnessing her mother write letters of forgiveness near death inspired her to live truthfully now, not wait ([34:00]).
• “Every time I walk the journey of truth…the peace starts getting deeper and deeper. So it's worth it.” – Zainab Salbi ([35:00]).
• “I believe love is bigger than all. So I believe love will triumph.” – Zainab Salbi ([35:40]).
• “You must forgive even when not asked for forgiveness…to free my own self. It's my path for freedom.” – Zainab Salbi ([36:03]).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “The person who changed my life was an illiterate woman.” – Zainab Salbi ([05:30])
• “How dare I ask any woman to speak up if I don't speak up myself?” – Zainab Salbi ([07:48])
• “I for the longest time had become the prison guard for my fear.” – Zainab Salbi ([11:25])
• “You have to keep life going. A woman in Gaza…would collect flour, bake bread, distribute the bread. We don’t acknowledge these voices…and yet without them, we don’t have peace.” – Zainab Salbi ([22:21])
• “Loving myself is part of loving God. And for me, it took a journey [to realize that].” – Zainab Salbi ([25:47])
• “My mission statement is to speak the truth, live the truth, be my truth.” – Zainab Salbi ([34:00])
• “I believe love is bigger than all. I believe love will triumph.” – Zainab Salbi ([35:40])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:23] – Zainab’s childhood in war and the founding of Women for Women International
• [06:18] – Life-changing meeting with Nembitu, and the responsibilities of storytelling
• [10:21] – Overcoming shame tied to family’s proximity to Saddam Hussein
• [13:01] – The healing that comes from telling one’s story
• [15:01] – Betrayal and reunion with her mother, escaping an abusive marriage
• [17:14] – The choice in shaping your own narrative despite circumstances
• [21:02]-[22:21] – Women’s everyday acts of resistance during war
• [23:27] – Lipstick as resistance, rediscovering beauty
• [27:43] – Meditation, grounding, and spirituality
• [34:00] – Living the truth and lessons from her mother’s end-of-life forgiveness
• [35:40] – The supremacy of love
• [36:03] – The necessity of forgiveness, even unasked

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Final Takeaways

This conversation is a rich tapestry of personal testimony and hard-earned wisdom, emphasizing that true change—personal and global—comes from embracing our vulnerabilities, speaking the truth, and relying on small, often unseen acts of daily resistance and kindness. Salbi’s story, and the stories she amplifies, remind listeners of the power of women’s voices and the profound impact of choosing love, forgiveness, and courage in the face of darkness.

“Love is bigger than all. So I believe love will triumph.” – Zainab Salbi ([35:40])

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Listen to this episode for profound insight into inner strength, the importance of bearing witness to suffering, and the ways in which honoring our own truth can awaken and heal the world.

Transcript

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[Oprah Winfrey]

hey There podcast listeners.

I have exciting news. We're launching a brand new podcast in addition to Super Soul Conversations. It's called Oprah's Masterclass. The Masterclass podcast allows you to hear the greatest life lessons from some of the most respected and renowned actors, musicians, figures and athletes in their own words. Listen as Jay Z, Justin Timberlake, Ellen DeGeneres, Shaquille O', Neal, Reba McIntyre, Dwayne Johnson, and Jane Fonda, just to name a few. Share what they've learned about life and their own insights into their personal stories and challenges. I believe that there's something to be learned from every experience and everyone can use their life as a class. Oprah's Masterclass Podcast is available now on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe now and listen free. Go to applepodcasts.com oprahsmasterclass I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.

I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is

time, taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. Humanitarian Zeynep Salby. For decades, she's helped women in war torn countries stand in their truth. Zeynep was first called to action at the age of 23. It was the early 90s during the Bosnia and Croatia conflict, when Zeynep read about a massive number of rapes in that region, sparked by her personal experience of war. Zayn Zephyr. Zeynep founded Women for Women International. The idea was brilliantly connect women in war zones with other women around the world. Through letters and a $30 a month sponsorship. Zeynep believes that honoring your own voice can awaken others to new possibilities, helping them heal and see that they're not alone.

[Nikayla Matthews Akome]

Welcome.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You know, our intention here, Super Soul Sunday, is to open the hearts and minds of people and if you can, drop little pieces of light into their lives so that they see themselves differently and see the world differently. And I know that, you know, when you founded Women for Women International, that might not have been your specific intention, but that's exactly what you did. You opened hearts and minds. You dropped pieces of light into women's lives and by letting them share their stories. And that became its own force of empowerment. How did you know to do that?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Well, it all started by me being in war. I grew up in war in the Iran Iraq war. I was in Iraq. And I know one thing about war, it makes you feel isolated. It makes you feel that the world has forgotten about you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Absolutely. So you decided, all right, I'm going

to find out where Bosnia is and

I'm going to do what. What was the initial feeling?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

I was newly married at the time. We were going to go to Spain for our honeymoon. My husband was very incredibly supportive. And we ended up putting the little money that we had for our honeymoon and we ended up going to Croatia. And we literally, you know, knocked on women's doors and on women's rights organization's doors. And we said, we are here to help us. And it has been a journey of humility for me. And it started with that first trip, because that first trip I went and I said, I am here to help all women survivors of rape in Bosnia. And I remember the woman who said, then don't help us, because if you're Going to isolate us as only women survivors of rapes or victims of rapes, then you're even stigmatizing us even more. Either you help all of us, regardless of what we have gone through, or don't help us. And that has been the beginning of many lessons I have got. It's a humbling experience. Every time I went to a culture or a country and I thought, I am going to do this, I get like a slap on the hand and it's like, no, that's how you, not how we do it. That's how you. And they taught me. And I realized knowledge is, is not by being educated and I have master's degree and blah, blah, blah. Everyone has access to wisdom and knowledge. The person who changed my life was an illiterate woman. Is an illiterate woman. Knowledge everyone has it is. How do we respect other people's knowledge? How do we hear and how did

[Oprah Winfrey]

she change your life?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Well, her name is Nembitu. She's from Congo. 52 years old woman. And she was telling me about how she was raped. Her 9 year old daughter raped her 21, 22 year old daughter, rape. So she's telling me, she said, I never told anybody the story but you. And I looked at her and I said, nambitu, I'm a storyteller. I sort of. What I do is I come and tell the story to the rest of the world so I can raise money and attention to help other women. Should I keep this one a secret? So she looks at me and she said, if I can tell my story to the whole world, I would. So other women would not have to go through what I've gone through. But I can't. You can. You go ahead and tell the story, just not to my neighbors. Now, two things happened. I was driving for five hours from Congo to Rwanda at that time. And I cried. I cried throughout that five hours. Because I realized what I was doing is this woman had more consciousness and more courage than I did by connecting her individual story to the larger collective of stories. And here I am hiding, hiding behind all the other women's stories. And in that realization, I realized I am not worthy to even help her or be in service in service to her. If I don't do my homework, how dare I ask any woman to speak up?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Do your soul work? Your soul work?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Absolutely.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Your soul's work.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

How dare I ask any woman to speak up if I don't speak up myself?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because up until that point, you were afraid to let people know that you even knew Saddam Hussein yes, of course.

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during her childhood, Zeynep's father, Tarek, worked for Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein as his personal pilot. Her family lived in a constant state of fear, having heard horror stories of Iraqis being sent to prison, enduring torture and even death for any perceived misstep. In her powerful memoir, Between Two Worlds, Zeynep says that even thinking was dangerous. So she learned to shut off her mind and suppress her true feelings in order to survive.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

I was ashamed, ashamed, ashamed. I mean, I literally was ashamed. How can I be a women's rights actor? I mean, how can I tell you that I knew Saddam Hussein because I believed that if I told anybody that they will no longer see me and they will see his face instead because he's so much powerful than me. And so there was a shame in that when I told my story, it was a leap of faith. I did not know how many people will accept me, will hate me, will kill me. And when I realized in the process, because people did not react the way I thought they would react, actually, they welcomed it. They hugged me, they said, thank you so much, and strange women would end up walking to me, and they would tell me their stories. And I was like, I don't know

[Oprah Winfrey]

what to do with yours.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

But only I realized when someone breaks their own silence, that person becomes like a candle to other people to give

[Oprah Winfrey]

light to everyone else.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Absolutely. And to know that you're not alone, you're not alone. And so what I realized in the process, that I, for the longest time, had become the prison guard for my fear.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, that's good.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

That I was the guard that was feeding my fear, actually. But you realize when you own your story and you tell it and you walk out of your shame, then you are liberating yourself in the process. For me, shame is like a spider web on ourselves.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And also it allows what you talk. What we also know is true. Brene talks about this a lot, too. When you are allowed to break your silence, you become vulnerable in a way that actually makes you more powerful.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Yes. Yeah, that's exactly how I feel.

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Really?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Honestly. Because, you know, my vulnerability felt to me like stripping naked in front of the whole world. And I realized it's like, either I stay in fear, and I'm always worried what would people say or do to me, you know, and I'm like this. Or I take off. Not physically. I take off my clothes. I tell the people, this is who I am naked for. I am doing it for myself, so there's nothing to fear when I'm doing it. Yeah, you own it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Absolutely. And do you find because you have talked to hundreds and hundreds of women throughout the world who have been broken and torn apart physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, through war. Do you find, though, that when they're able to just release a little bit of that story, that the healing starts? Because the story, the holding of the shame, the holding of the story and not being able to share the story is what continues to kill you inside?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, that's, for me, not only there, because they. The story at that point, does not define them. They define the story. When we stay in our victimhood, which, at least for me, I was in my victimhood for a while, for then the story defines me as you do the work you are, the change you want to make in the world. For me, it's like, how can I be advocating for anything, peace if I don't experience peace myself? How can I advocate for happiness if I am not happy?

[Oprah Winfrey]

When did you know that this human rights activist, an advocate for the empowerment and betterment of women people, especially in the world, was your calling?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

I guess it started when I was 15 years old. Yeah, my mom used to make me read all these books, you know, she used to give me, actually one of the first books she made me read is like a Woman called I am Free in Arabic. Roots. She made me read all of Roots and I'm a teenager, I'm not understanding what is she doing to me. Like, you know, she's just telling me, read these, read. And I would read it and she would tell me about all the abuse that women would go through. And my grandmother, my grandmother was married off as a 13 year old child, taken off school, and how the grandmother made sure all of her daughters go to college. So my mom would tell me the stories of women. And at 15 I told her, mom, when I grow up, I am going to help all women around the world. You know, she gave me the best gift that moment she looked at me and she said, and you can, honey.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Zaynep grew up in Baghdad under the shadow of Saddam Hussein. Her father's job as the brutal dictator's pilot drew the family into Saddam's inner circle, a dangerous place for a young woman. Zaynep says her mother, Alia, was determined to do whatever it took to protect her daughter.

Your mom actually sent you to the United States to be married, correct?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Yes, that was my mom. What I felt, that's my first sensation of betrayal. It came from the person I love the most.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So your mom sent you away to be married, you didn't want to be married?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Not me. I mean, she always told me that I should choose the person, I should choose the person that I want to marry, I should marry for love. And all of a sudden she puts me in this arranged marriage. We literally get married within two weeks of arriving in America and then they leave and go back to Iraq. And that month, that month Iraq invades Kuwait. And I get cut off from my family and I end up not seeing them for nine years. And the husband they married me to, he raped me, he violated me, verbally, physically, all of it. Now, it took me nine years, it took me, my mom, to be ill. And the process of her dying, when her and I were in real authentic conversation and a very honest conversation, it was to learn that what she did to me was to save me. She was just pushing me out of Iraq because she was so afraid. That's a dumb. Who my family were friends with. And I grew up seeing him every single weekend, mostly every single day. And my life was starting to see me as a woman as opposed to a child. And she panicked at the.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And she knew that there would be nothing she could do about it if Saddam Hussein said, you are mine, absolutely.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Even though if we are his friends, it doesn't matter. When he wanted something, he got the something. And many women, many, many, many were raped by him.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So you left your husband.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Yes. You fled your husband three months after the marriage.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Three months after the marriage. So you're now 20.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

I'm 20 exactly. With $400 in my pockets. And I realized that I have to build my life out of nothing, and I'm gonna do it. And one day I will go home and help women back home.

[Oprah Winfrey]

This is just remarkable. I hear these stories, you know, you're a young girl, you're 20 years old. You say, I'm going to bill my. You have $400, you're in the United States, and you're going to build your life out of nothing. Do you think that's an inherent thing? That there are some women who say, I'm going to build my life out of nothing, and then there are some women who say, there's nothing I can do?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

I personally believe we all have that choice, that the circumstances is not choice. The circumstances we're put in is not a choice. It's imposed on us. What do you choose to do with your story is a choice, personally? Yeah, I think we have individual choices for what do we do with our circumstances. You know, you choose to do this or you choose to do that. That's my personal belief now. I put all my energy on being in service. That's sort of. It's who I am. I feel it's like not resisting who you are. And that's the creation of women for women. And that's like the.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So did something happen in particular around 23 that you said, this is it. I'm now going to go and save women of the world.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

I was going to school in America, and for the first time in my life, I learned about the Holocaust and about concentration camps in the Holocaust and about how people said, never again. That same month, there were images of concentration camps in Bosnia, and we were doing it again. And it was, for me, a very childlike logic. They said, never again, but it's happening again. So we must do something. About it. It was as simple as that. It was.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you'd never thought about it before?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Not at all. I did not know who the Bosnians are. Did not know who they are. I had to go and teach myself which country they are, from what language do they speak, what their religion was, their culture. I came to the realization that when we avoid acknowledging and seeing injustice that is happening in front of us when we turn our face, then we invariably legitimize it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Absolutely.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

And allow for the corruption of our own values. So when I say I have a responsibility, it is about me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. You know, I used to say that to our viewers during the many years of the Oprah show. And I would show child abuse. I would show, you know, graphic images of domestic violence or something. And I'd say, and now you can never pretend that you didn't see it. You can go on and make your dinner this evening, you can go shopping, you can do whatever, but you cannot pretend that you didn't see it, because now that has entered your consciousness. And the question is, what will you do?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Absolutely.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. How will you use that? What will you do?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

And you don't have to change your life, by the way.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You don't have to get up and form Women for Women International, but you can allow it to open the heart space for yourself and you in your own world, treat people differently.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

You know, it's as simple as whatever it is. It could be as simple as seeing a homeless person looking at them in the eyes. Yes. You don't have to, like, be heroic journey or anything like that. It's the simple act. You know, living in war, but also working in war, I came to realize that people resist not in the superhero way. They resist in the small acts. In the small acts, you know, it's my mother resisted by keeping love in my heart. That was her resistance to fear. People resist in this. And so we can change the world in small acts. It doesn't have to be big, heroic superhero act.

[Oprah Winfrey]

One of the things that you acknowledge is that there are two sides of war. There's the bombing and there's the obvious violence, and there's that that we see and is reported on the news. And then there's the other side of that, which usually involves women and children. Yes. It's the woman baking bread in Gaza.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Yes. Well, I mean, when we talk about war in war zones, I mean, in the front lines, for example, we don't talk about life keeps on going in the midst of war. I mean, people still go to school and they still go to hospitals, and they actually still have to earn a living to eat. And that's.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think most people don't even think about that. You think, oh, there's this war going on in Iraq, and that's all that's happening in Iraq. But while that's happening, there are mothers feeding their children and trying to send their children to school and. And people still going to work every day and life going on.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Absolutely. And you have birthday parties and you get married and you get divorced, and you get all of these all in

[Oprah Winfrey]

the midst of the war.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

And it keeps going in the midst of war. Now, the ones who lead it, the ones who lead what I call the backline discussion, you know, life, are women. And their resistance becomes. It's not the fighting. Their resistance becomes how to keep life going. So when I was a child in war, in the midst of a siren, my mom would play for me and my brothers a puppet, a puppeteer. She would make her own puppeteer in the shadows of the candle to make us laugh and entertain us as the bombs and the planes are bombing the country. A Bosnian woman, she's a piano teacher. For four years in the midst of the war in Sarajevo in Bosnia, she kept the music school open every single day. And for her, she says this. This is my resistance, is to keep the music going. I mean, how beautiful that in order

[Oprah Winfrey]

to keep people, to allow people to literally rebuild the fabric of their own lives.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Absolutely, because you have to keep life. You have to keep life going. A woman in Gaza in the midst of war, all she would do is go collect flour from all the neighbors, bake the bread, distribute the bread. We don't acknowledge these women's voices, and yet without them, we don't have peace. Because peace is not the ending of fighting. Only peace is actually the building of life. It's like stitching life back with each other. You know, it's sort of the normalizing of life. The jobs, the schools, the weddings. You know, that's peace.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You were in Sarajevo, and a woman there made a request that really surprised you. What was it?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Well, when I started, you know, I was only 23 when I started Woman for Women. So I also took in my taking myself very seriously. I was like the activist role, you know, wearing jeans and sneakers. And to be a human rights activist or a humanitarian, you have to, like, sort of be. I would call it exactly rustic, you know, I call it uglifying myself, you know. And so I'm going to Sarajevo. It was really hard to enter Sarajevo, and I'm telling the woman, what should I bring you next time I'm here? And this woman, she's like, lipstick. I was like, lipstick?

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Really?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

You don't want vitamins?

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I don't know.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Like, you know, I'm, like, thinking, like, something, you know, to help her. She's like, no, I want lipstick. Because it's the simplest thing that each woman can put on every single day. And we feel beautiful. And in that. That's how I'm resisting the war. This woman told me, she said, I want that sniper before he shoots me to know he is killing a beautiful woman. And lipstick is the easiest thing for a woman, any woman around the world, to put on and feels beautiful. Actually, it is through working with women, survivors of wars, in wars, that I learned how to appreciate beauty and to incorporate beauty in my own life. And look at me now. I mean, like, you know, still the woman. Exactly. But I, like, I appreciate beauty right now. And it's. And it is beauty becomes one way of resisting, one way of building peace.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But you had to learn yourself. I mean, I look at you, I see a beautiful woman. It took you a while before you could look at yourself and see a beautiful woman. You taught yourself to see your own beauty. How did you do that?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Well, I actually always thought, first of all, that I am not a beautiful woman. I would look at myself in the mirror, and no matter how many people my former husband, everyone. Everyone's like, you are beautiful. I was like, nope. I would look and I say, not a beautiful woman. I can't say ugly woman, but not a beautiful woman, you know? And one day, you know, a Tibetan woman actually told me, she said, you need to start meditating on your eyes. So I go to the mirror, same mirror, by the way. Same mirror. And I'm meditating. And it's too much to look at your whole face. And I sat looking into the pupil of my eyes, and in the pupil, I just kept on meditating on it, you know? And I saw my soul. I don't know. And it was beautiful. What I saw was a beautiful person, you know? And I was like, but it was just the pupil. It's just one. And I was like, wow, that's a beautiful person inside. And little by little, I mean, through that mirror, little by little, I start seeing my own beauty. It's the same food I eat.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Stop judging yourself. Christiane Northrup was saying, do the same thing. Look in the mirror and say to yourself for 30 days, I love you. And see how you feel and really look deep into your Own essence.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Absolutely.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And something else shows up.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

You know, I believe it's like, you know, when I loving oneself is part of loving God. You know, it's like this is God's gift. And loving this is part of loving God's gift. For me, because I struggled with the concept of loving oneself, I thought it's a selfish concept. I grew up with it being selfish concept. And for me, it took a journey for to love myself. And I really believe it's part of loving God. It's part of my expression for my love of God.

[Oprah Winfrey]

How many lives do you think you actually affected and changed around the world through Women for Women International?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Number wise, it's about 450,000 women for me. And it's not enough. Really. It's not enough. I can cry. It's not enough.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, is it ever enough? That's the question for all of us. Is it ever enough? I think the first time you were on the Oprah show was in the 90s. Was it the 90s?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

It was September 2000. The Oprah Winfrey Show. Change women for women. Tremendous. We were helping 600 women only in September 2000. Ten years later, several appearances later, we raised $100 million to about 450,000 women around the world.

[Nikayla Matthews Akome]

Wow.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you. Viewers did that. That's amazing. How do you keep yourself restored doing this? I mean, I used to find this with the Oprah show that every day you're talking to people who come from very difficult circumstances, that the energy of that sometimes would feel like that I'd be covered in that energy and I had to work to keep a balance of not taking in everybody else's energy. What do you do? I know you meditate.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

I meditate a lot. When I do my meditation or practicing my yoga. And when my hands, it touches the ground, this is for me the most beautiful sensation. And I say, thank you, God. And in the groundedness I feel, that's when that restores me. When I breathe, I feel I'm breathing God. And when I exhale, I think I'm exhaling into God. And then these are small things. It's the connections with God and with earth that restores my spirit.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And how do you define God?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Everything. My mom, when I was a kid and I grew up a Muslim, my mom used to tell me, don't look at God, only up there. God is everywhere. God is in the trees. God is in the flower. God is in the sand. We have sand in Iraq, you know. And I really think God is in the chair. God is here. Everywhere, Everywhere. You know, I just. So when God becomes the everything, you know, and inside. And inside, then, you know, loving the world becomes part of loving God. Loving myself becomes part every. All the love becomes part of loving God.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So there is religion, which you are Muslim, and then there is the ground and the breath and breathing and recognizing that every breath is God and every exhale you're exhaling into God. What is the difference?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

The religion is the rituals, I feel. And for me, the latter is how do you take the spirit of the religion? What is religions? What are all the religions? They're saying the exact same thing for me. You know, they're saying the exact same thing. And that same thing is sort of, for me is out of love for God, you know, sort of the being to try to aspire to be. You know, in Sufism, they say we are to empty ourselves like a flute. And that's an individual process. So God can.

[Oprah Winfrey]

How you empty?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Yes, how you empty? I feel like consciousness is like a switch light. You know, we each have the choice to switch it on or off.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Right?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

And if you switch it on, you have to do the work, right. And you empty yourself like a flute so God can whisper through you. So God can play the flute through you. And that's.

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[Zeynep Salby Akome]

That is arumi, as all of us, all of us can do that. So for me, the breathing in on God is. That takes the spirit, the spirit of religions, Islam included. And look at why we're trying to do that. It takes the spirit of religion rather than the ritual of religion.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

You know, we live in this polarized world of darkness and light, summer and winter. How. How do you stay in the light?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Only by acknowledging my dark. And it's only when was a recent process for me to with consciousness try to look at my own shadow. Where are the parts of myself that I snap or I'm impatient or whatever it is, you know, and how do I own it? And I put myself in that pain and I tell myself this will help you connect to someone else one day in the future. So when a friend one day tell me I am in pain or I did this embarrassing thing, I'm like yes, I did that too. Did you see what I mean? It's an acceptance of it and thus a release of it. When the shame goes, there's the freedom comes as well.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Absolutely. What do you believe about conflict?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Believe conflict is the most. It's where we are betraying ourselves. It's about greed. I don't mean only material greed all but it's our own greed where we are betraying ourselves for for most insignificant things and we end up with so much killing, it's just. It's our humanity betraying itself.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What do you believe about faith?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

You know, faith is the one thing by the way, in the midst of all the darkness in war zones that I worked in in the Middle east, right now it's something you cannot touch. But it's the most important thing that keeps people going. It's like everyone goes back into the something faith inside them and hold on to that. It's a leap of faith that we never can tell it what it is, but it is the one agent of change that keeps us going.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What truth is it that you actually embrace in your daily life? Is there a truth? I know that you're a big truth seeker.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Yes. My mission statement in my life is to speak the truth, to live the truth, to be my truth. So every day I try to do that. And what helped me actually when my mom was dying 15 years ago, she wrote a letter to every person in her life. She asked for forgiveness from some people. She needed to ask for forgiveness. She forgave whoever she needed to forgive. She used to make me read the letter before I mailed it. Wow. She had als, so she could not speak. So she was like, read it. And then I help her fold it and mail it. And she told people, I love you. And she communicated with every person in her life. And so when I saw my mom dying and she died at age 52, and I realized that, I said, I'm not going to wait until I'm dying to do this. I'm going to do this all the times and every time I tell my truth. When I wrote my book, it sort of what felt like a stone that suffocating me in here became crystal. And so every time I tell my truth, the journey of truth is hard, but the taste of it is so delicious that it becomes addictive. You know, it's sort of every time I walk the journey of truth in whatever it is in my work, in my personal life, and within myself. And it's not an easy journey, but the taste is always like the peace start getting deeper and deeper. And so it's worth it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Finish the sentence. I believe.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

I believe love is bigger than all. I really believe love is bigger than all. So no matter what's happening in the world, with all the racism and the prejudices of and the killing and the job, love is still bigger than all. So I believe love will triumph.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What do you believe about forgiveness?

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

I once had a dream. You must forgive even when not asked to be forgiven. You must forgive even when not asked for forgiveness. And in the dream, I remember saying, no, it's too much to ask for this. It's too much. And it really took me a long time to realize I have to forgive even when not asked for forgiveness, to free my own self. It's my path for freedom.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you for this conversation.

[Zeynep Salby Akome]

Thank you. Thank you so, so, so much. Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe.

Rate and review this podcast.

Join me next week for another Super Soul conversation.

Thank you for listening.

[Acast Announcer]

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If you've ever dreamed of quitting your job to take your side, hustle full time, Listen up. This is Nikayla Matthews Akomay, host of Side Hustle Pro, a podcast that helps you build and grow from passion project to profitable business. Every week you'll hear from guests just like you who wanted to start a business on the side. If you can't run a side hustle, you can't run a business. They share real tips, and so I started connecting with all these people on

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