Podcast Summary: Optimal Finance Daily

Episode 3371: "When, Why and How We Give" by Julien Saunders of Rich & Regular

Host: Diania Merriam
Date: November 30, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode examines the personal philosophy and practical approach to charitable giving adopted by Julien Saunders and his partner (of Rich & Regular), as they pursue financial independence (FI). It explores the intersections between money management, values-driven giving, and how financial independence opens new doors to generosity and community support.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Giving as Part of the FI Journey

• Self-Care and Early Retirement:
  • The Saunders' see early retirement and financial independence not as an escape, but as an act of self-care that enables them to help others as well.
  • [02:00] "These moments remind us that our goal of early retirement is truly a matter of self care and not some trivial pursuit of a lavish lifestyle."

2. Their Approach to Giving

• Loose Budgeting:
  • Unlike typical financial experts, they don’t track every dollar given. Contributions often exceed their “budgeted” line item for giving, and they’re content with that flexibility.
  • [03:30] "We’re okay with a few ups and downs and whatever is left over."
  • This approach is possible because of years of disciplined financial management and living well below their means.
  • [04:00] "If you've not earned your personal finance stripes yet, then it's best you track every penny, nickel and dime until you do."
• Non-Tithing Perspective:
  • The Saunders don’t tithe or belong to a religious community, so their giving isn’t tied to traditional practices but rather to their personal values.
  • [04:40] "We're still searching for a spiritual home and therefore see no reason to abide by any specific religious practice."

3. Values-Driven Giving

• Focuses:
  • Support for people, organizations, local businesses, and especially minority-owned start-ups and friends/family in need.
  • [05:10] "We spend and give away our money in a manner that’s aligned with our values."
• Navigating Social Perceptions:
  • The couple notes that giving can be judged or scrutinized (too much, too little, not the right cause), but they ignore these pressures.
  • [05:40] "Giving isn't a competition and that it's okay to simply give what you want when you want to."

4. Division of Roles in Giving

• Mrs. Rich & Regular: The Micro Enterprise Champion
  • Invests in minority-led start-ups and small businesses, often purchasing products to help fund first production runs.
  • [06:20] "Not a month goes by where she hasn't stumbled across a handful of hungry startups that need funding..."
• Mr. Rich & Regular: The Humanitarian
  • Handles gifts for events, donations to causes like NPR/PBS, helping family members, and supporting students or people in need of life-changing experiences.
  • [07:30] "Mr. Rich and Regular tends to use his magic money wand to help make bills disappear."

5. Philanthropy as a Motivator for FI

• Future Goals:
  • They hope to formalize giving, such as establishing scholarships for minority students and supporting mental health organizations.
  • [09:00] "It’s a dream of ours to start a scholarship fund for underprivileged minority students…"
• Both Time and Money Matter:
  • While volunteer hours are important, Saunders stresses that many problems simply can't be solved without financial resources.
  • [09:40] "Volunteer hours alone don't build homes, churn inventory, pay legal fees, or put food on tables. That takes cash."

6. The Heart Behind Giving

• Inspiration from Mentors:
  • Ambassador Andrew Young’s advice left a mark:
    • [08:30] “Fill your cup and then fill it again. Otherwise you end up tired, broken and full of resentment.”
• Giving as ‘Radical Self-Responsibility’:
  • Their giving is seen as an extension of their investment in themselves to remain able to contribute meaningfully to others.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [02:00] "Our goal of early retirement is truly a matter of self care and not some trivial pursuit of a lavish lifestyle." — Julien Saunders
• [03:30] "As long as the plan is on track, screw the rest of it." — Julien Saunders (on their relaxed tracking of giving)
• [04:00] "If you've not earned your personal finance stripes yet, then it's best you track every penny, nickel and dime until you do." — Julien Saunders
• [05:40] "Giving isn't a competition and that it's okay to simply give what you want when you want to." — Julien Saunders
• [06:20] "Not a month goes by where she hasn't stumbled across a handful of hungry startups that need funding..." — Julien Saunders, on Mrs. Saunders’ support of minority entrepreneurs
• [07:30] "Mr. Rich and Regular tends to use his magic money wand to help make bills disappear." — Julien Saunders
• [08:30] “Fill your cup and then fill it again. Otherwise you end up tired, broken and full of resentment.” — Ambassador Andrew Young (as shared by Julien Saunders)
• [09:40] "Volunteer hours alone don't build homes, churn inventory, pay legal fees, or put food on tables. That takes cash." — Julien Saunders

Host Commentary & Additional Insights

• Abundance Mindset in Giving:
  • Diania discusses how giving, especially in FI, signals a belief in abundance — that you both have enough and will have more than enough.
  • [12:30] "The act of giving acknowledges that you have and will have more than you need and so you have a surplus to offer to other people in need."
• Optimizing Giving:
  • For “money nerds,” Diania suggests considering Donor Advised Funds for tax-optimized charitable giving.
• Further Resources:
  • Diania recommends checking out the panel “What Role Does Charity and Giving Play in the Pursuit of FI?” on the EconoMe Conference YouTube channel, which features Kirsten (Mrs. Rich & Regular) expanding further on these themes.

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:06 – Introduction of Julien Saunders' post and the reflective, self-care angle of early retirement
• 03:00–05:00 – Budgeting approach and reason for non-tithing
• 05:10–07:50 – Values-driven giving: Supporting minority businesses and friends/family; division of giving roles
• 08:30 – Ambassador Andrew Young’s life lesson
• 09:00–10:00 – Dreams for formalized giving and the importance of monetary giving
• 12:30–13:00 – Diania’s commentary on abundance mindset and strategies for giving as part of financial independence

Conclusion

This episode surfaces the idea that giving—of both time and money—is deeply personal, dynamic, and informed by one's life journey and values. For the Saunders, financial independence is a means to multiply their ability to give meaningfully, in ways that are consistent with their experiences, their aspirations, and their vision of a better future. Diania Merriam amplifies this by encouraging listeners to approach giving from a place of abundance, further linking generosity to the broader pursuit of a prosperous and optimal life.