Podcast Summary: Optimist Economy

Episode: "Looking Beyond the Unemployment Rate"

Hosts: Kathryn Anne Edwards & Robin Rauzi
Release Date: August 26, 2025

Brief Overview

In this episode, Kathryn and Robin dig into what the unemployment rate really means—and what it leaves out. They explore how unemployment is measured, why it sometimes doesn’t match people’s lived experiences, and how statistics can both empower and frustrate. With plenty of humor and stories, the hosts break down how official labor force numbers are built, the role of underemployment, the power of economic statistics for social justice, and why sometimes “the average” doesn’t reflect individual pain.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Feedback and Clarifications

• The hosts open by reflecting on feedback from previous episodes—addressing misunderstandings about video games and labor force participation, and acknowledging a lack of pop culture references (“Boys to Men”) when discussing boys and men in the economy.

• Katharyn clarifies the video game debate:

  • Playing games is not inherently bad; problems arise when gaming becomes an addiction replacing work or healthy socialization, especially among young men not engaged in the labor force. (04:01–05:53)
  • "It's a neutral way to consume leisure... for some people it's a hindrance to living a full life because it becomes an addiction." – Kathryn (05:53)

• Advocacy for a national, federally funded child development system as a solution for youth across genders, but political strategy is not the hosts’ focus. (06:45–09:08)

2. Importance and Complexity of Economic Measurements

• New Zealand's "well-being budget" is cited as an ambitious but complicated attempt at alternative measurement; meaningful metrics take time to build credibility. (01:48–02:52)
• Why poverty is measured the way it is:
  • The newer, more inclusive poverty measurements are not used for determining program eligibility because they’d be too difficult for administrators to implement. (09:07–10:47)
  • "It would be way too hard for them to do… [but] it’s not just a little stamp that says poor or not poor." – Kathryn (10:47)

3. The Unemployment Rate: What It Is and Isn't

• The headline unemployment rate (currently 4.2%) sparks skepticism—many feel it doesn’t represent their reality or that of people around them.

  • "If you are struggling and someone tells you the economy is fine, that sucks... you don't believe them, and they're basically saying either they're lying or you don't matter." – Kathryn (15:10)

• The unemployment rate is accurate as an economic indicator but can't—and isn’t meant to—capture everyone’s situation. Big averages don’t always reflect individual hardship, nor vice versa. (15:36–17:21)

• Current moment is described as unusually uncertain:

  • Post-pandemic, the economy has been in a state of “waiting,” and there’s a sense of ongoing vulnerability. (17:21–18:31)
  • "I've never seen the economy look weak the way this one does." – Kathryn (17:22)

4. Alternative Measures & Underemployment

• Hosts break down how the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics tracks labor market performance:

  • Official unemployment (U3) and broader underemployment (U6) are both measured monthly via the Current Population Survey. (26:00–28:23)
  • U6, at 7.9%, includes discouraged workers, the marginally attached, and involuntary part-timers—often about double the headline rate.

• "We have all these measurements ... they don't get as much attention, in part because they're not as big as maybe people would believe." – Kathryn (18:13)

• Skepticism about think-tanks publishing a “true unemployment rate”—lumping in all low-wage jobs as equivalent to unemployment is seen as both inaccurate and disrespectful to people working those jobs. (19:47–21:53)

  • "I take such offense to this... You're calling people who are out there trying to make it in the economy ... as a problem? Like, no, sir." – Kathryn (21:53)

5. Skill Mismatch & Overeducation

• Discussion of "overeducation"—people with advanced credentials working “beneath” their level.

  • Hosts note issues with measuring this; what counts as “wasted” training or being “overplaced” is subjective and risks ignoring people’s desires or life changes. (30:58–33:39)
  • "It puts a ton of emphasis on the training and the credential, not whether you liked it, not whether you wanted to use it..." – Kathryn (31:58)

• Propose that dissatisfaction with underemployment might reveal more about labor market discrimination (especially for women and people of color) than about imminent economic crisis. (33:41–34:19)

6. History & Social Advocacy through Statistics

• The unemployment rate’s history is rooted in both economic analysis and social advocacy. Early measures (e.g., by W.E.B. Du Bois) aimed to provide evidence of social inequities, not just economic performance. (36:54–38:11)

  • "You had white people in Washington look down and say, well, that’s what Black people do ... He estimated an unemployment rate ... to advocate on behalf of Black people."* – Kathryn (36:55)

• Today's robust statistics empower advocates and researchers to highlight and address inequality in ways that were impossible before. (45:40–49:17)

  • "Statistics from the federal government on inequality—that is power that we cannot replace." – Kathryn (48:27)

7. Risks of Undermining Official Statistics

• Dismissing or attacking official statistics can threaten public accountability and make social justice efforts harder; hosts stress the importance of defending rigorous, transparent federal data. (45:55–49:17)

8. Big Takeaways on Labor Market Measurement

• There are always people left out by averages, and dissatisfaction with your economic situation doesn’t mean the statistics are false.
• Improving measurements is valuable, but inaccurate or poorly constructed measures don’t solve the real economic problems. (51:16–51:20)
  • "Inaccurate measures don't fix the economy." – Robin (51:20)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On economic pain and statistics:

  • "The average can be good and you're doing bad, and that you're doing badly doesn't mean the average is a lie." – Kathryn (50:04)

• On advocacy and statistics:

  • "Getting the government to measure and produce this publicly with full transparency is so amazing ... statistics is power." – Kathryn (48:27)

• On the importance of not changing definitions lightly:

  • "If you keep changing the unemployment rate, you don't really know what's happening." – Kathryn (25:07)

Key Timestamps

• Retcons & Listener Feedback: 01:44–11:20
• Terms & Conditions (Econ Lingo): 11:20–13:10
• Unemployment vs. Underemployment: 13:22–17:21
• Feeling “Uncounted” by Statistics: 17:21–19:44
• Alternative “True Unemployment” Critique: 19:47–21:53
• What Labor Economists Really Discuss: 22:17–24:50
• How Official Rates Are Calculated: 26:01–28:23
• Skill Mismatch Debate: 30:35–34:19
• History of Unemployment Measures: 35:21–41:07
• The Power & Fragility of Statistics: 45:40–49:17
• Statistic Improvement & Advocacy: 49:17–51:20
• Optimism & Big-Picture Takeaways: 50:53–51:55

Segment: Executive Orders & Spiritual Sponsors

• Executive Orders (humorous wishlist-style reforms):

  • More regular remakes of “Lady Chatterley’s Lover” (Kathryn), and all businesses with double doors must keep both unlocked (Robin). (52:22–54:27)

• Spiritual Sponsors (personal inspirations):

  • Houston Dash soccer drumline (Kathryn), peak summer fruit (Robin). (54:49–56:41)

Episode Tone & Style

Lively, candid, sometimes self-deprecating, with a focus on clarity and approachable expert insight. The hosts blend humor with genuine expertise, providing both empathetic and practical perspectives on economic reporting and its social impact.

For further episode context, show notes, or to contribute listener questions, visit: optimisteconomy.com