Podcast Summary: The Case for Going Big on Paid Leave

Optimist Economy
Hosts: Kathryn Anne Edwards and Robin Rauzi
Episode Date: September 9, 2025

Overview

In this engaging and timely episode, Kathryn Anne Edwards and Robin Rauzi take on the subject of paid family and medical leave in the United States. Framing it as one of the most crucial and practical steps toward a better, more humane economy, they argue for a comprehensive, "liberal" expansion of paid leave—making the case for a universal, flexible, and inclusive benefit system. Drawing on both data and personal experience (with Kathryn pregnant and soon to go on leave), the episode dives deeply into the realities, myths, and policy potentials of paid leave, emphasizing its transformative potential for families, workers, and society at large.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Talk About Paid Leave Now?

• Kathryn announces her pregnancy and upcoming maternity leave, using her own experience as a jumping-off point for the discussion. (03:23, 03:29)
• "I'm pregnant. We have to stop recording for me, you know, to bring another little optimist in the world." – Kathryn (02:44)

2. Defining Paid Family and Medical Leave

• Paid leave covers time off to care for a new child, an ill relative, or oneself—unlike the unpaid FMLA, which offers job protection but not salary. (09:03–09:40)
• “The idea of paid leave is that you are paid by either your employer or the state or the federal government while you are taking qualified caregiving activities away from work.” – Kathryn (09:08)

3. Current Landscape: Fragmented and Inequitable

• Only about 27% of private-sector workers get paid family leave through their employer; the figure is skewed toward higher-wage jobs and men have greater access than women. (11:47–12:04)
• Many women actually rely on short-term disability for postpartum recovery, which is often brief and undervalues the need for caregiving. (12:17–13:21)
• The “patchwork” of short-term disability, sick days, and state-by-state policies leaves most families without sufficient or clear coverage. (14:56–16:11)

4. The Liberal Case for Paid Leave: Go Big

Kathryn advocates a bolder, more generous version of paid leave, making several key points:

• Universal and Portable: Integrate paid family and medical leave into Social Security, ensuring coverage regardless of employer, employment type, or state of residence. (17:34–19:20)
  • "We're going to add paid family and medical leave to Social Security, which means it will cover every single worker in the United States..." – Kathryn (17:34)
• Inclusive Definition of Family: Let caregivers be anyone the beneficiary chooses, not just legal/blood relatives—essential for inclusivity, especially for LGBTQ+ and chosen families. (41:51–44:30)
  • "Congress does not get to say who my family is. I think that this is something that Americans would agree with in their own life." – Kathryn (42:43)
• More Than Babies: The majority of claims in well-designed programs are for medical needs and elder care, not just birth or adoption. (14:30, 26:26)
  • “I've always thought it's not short sighted, but almost cruel that we don't talk about paid family and medical leave from the point of view of the dying.” – Kathryn (27:19)
• Multiple Care Claims: Each serious need—such as childbirth or a terminal illness—should allow for multiple caregivers, not just one. (30:08–36:45)
  • “The mom gets somebody, the baby gets somebody, the husband and the grandma... they'll figure it out. But yeah, this would basically mean that you have a mom or a sister or a brother that would be able to take some amount of paid leave to help with the kid and the mom.” – Kathryn (35:44)
• Focus on Dignity: Framing leave as necessary for end-of-life dignity, newborn bonding, and proper recovery from illness or childbirth—not just workforce participation or productivity.

5. The Case for Social Security as Administrator

• Using the existing infrastructure of Social Security (thousands of field offices and a national contribution system) would make paid leave universal, simple, and consistent, following workers throughout their careers. (17:34–18:38; 18:50)
• Potential to credit caregiving time to future retirement benefits, acknowledging the economic value of care work. (17:38)

6. Costs and Feasibility

• Funded via payroll tax (0.75%–1.2% is typical), evenly split between employer and employee. Existing state programs demonstrate affordability; California covers both disability and paid family leave with a 1.2% payroll tax. (22:04–23:17; 37:33–38:53)
• States have seen their programs expand over time as benefits prove manageable and popular; evidence shows men and women both claim these benefits.

7. Rejecting False Scarcity and Strict Definitions

• The focus should be on allowing flexible, compassionate access, not on tightly rationing the number or kinds of caregivers or policing which family relationships qualify. (36:01, 44:30)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the Human Side of Policy:
  • “Sorry, the labor market can't spare your children, so now they have to choose between keeping their job and income or spending time with their dying mother.” – Kathryn (27:37)
• On Childbirth Recovery:
  • “No legislator in this country has said, you, Catherine, who brought life into this world, who had reconstructive stitches afterwards and has been told, watch out for that golf ball coming at you. No one thinks you deserve a caregiver.” – Kathryn (33:22)
• On Program Philosophy:
  • “Big liberal leave. I say who my family is. We're not gonna be tight fisted with the caregivers.” – Kathryn (44:30)
• Robin on American Culture:
  • “We talk a lot about how kind of independent and individualistic Americans are, but the truth is that... we actually, what we do is we take care of one another.” – Robin (42:43)

Important Segment Timestamps

• [09:02] – What is paid family and medical leave?
• [11:47] – Statistics: Who gets paid leave in the US now?
• [14:25] – Paid leave claims: More medical/elder care than maternity
• [17:34] – Vision for a universal, seamless federal system
• [26:26] – Paid leave's vital role in end-of-life care
• [33:22] – Kathryn’s personal childbirth recovery story
• [36:45] – What “big liberal leave” looks like in practice
• [38:53] – Payroll tax costs, participation, and feasibility
• [41:51]–44:30 – Why the definition of family should be liberal and inclusive

Executive Orders (Fun Segment)

Kathryn's Executive Order

• Make it illegal to say intrusive, rude, or inappropriate things to pregnant women. Examples: Don’t say, “You look ready to pop,” or share horror stories.
  • “I ain't a balloon, I'm a lady.” (47:43)

Robin's Executive Order

• Any service that can be subscribed to online 24/7 must also be cancellable online 24/7. (48:16)

Additional Memorable Features

• The episode is seamlessly infused with humor, personal anecdotes, and warm, candid conversation.
• The hosts stress the importance of a compassionate, family-centric approach to policy and repeatedly invite listeners to share their experiences and suggestions, both about paid leave and about the podcast itself.

Conclusion: The Real Fight

Kathryn and Robin predict that the U.S. will eventually get paid family and medical leave at a federal level—likely through Social Security. The challenge, they argue, is less about if and more about how generous, flexible, and inclusive the policy will be.

• “We shouldn't be stingy with the number of caregivers that they get. And…we shouldn't be dogmatic about who gets to be a caregiver. It should be liberal. It should be up to the person.” – Kathryn (44:30)

For U.S. workers and families, it's time not just to get paid leave, but to go big on it.

For further ideas or questions for Kathryn and Robin, email optimist.economy@gmail.com or call 202-643-0295. And, as Robin reminds us: “Don’t call us. Except…call us.” (49:21)