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- [00:03]
Jim Miller
Hi, I'm Jim Miller welcoming you back to Origins, a presentation of C13 originals, a Cadence 13 studio. Let me begin with two quick but heartfelt rounds of thanks. First, we hugely appreciate your returning to Origins after the powers that be at cadence 13. My production partner allowed me to take a sabbatical to finish my latest book, HBO's Ruthless Pursuit of New Frontiers. Second, we can't thank you enough for enthusiastic support you gave to our most recent chapter of origins, marking the 20th anniversary of almost Famous and its renewed status as a movie milestone. The response was overwhelming, including incredible feedback from director Cameron Crowe, Kate Hudson, Billy Crudup and others who had generously shared their memories. Now we rock onto our newest chapter of Origins, titled HBO Present, Past and Future, A look inside hbo, its beginnings, its programming pedigree, and its complicated route ahead. You might think that after spending the past three years entrenched in all things HBO, along with conducting 757 interviews for the book, I might feel burned out on the topic. Well, I might, but I don't. And that's why I sought out new interviews since the book was published with key figures to bring this podcast to life. As HBO approaches its 50th anniversary this fall, there's much to discuss. Whether you read or listened to Tinderbox or not, it was very depressing once I was out. It was a tough time leaving HBO when I was alone and no one answered my phone calls. No more flowers, no more, oh, you have a headache, Let me get you an aspirin. No more anything. No more lunch dates. I didn't have HBO anymore. I was just an old person without a job.
- [02:04]
Carolyn Strauss
But the main thing I remember is.
- [02:07]
Jim Miller
Looking at my cell phone and not seeing any calls. I used to come home and there were 50 calls. You know, you don't have the job, you don't have the power, you don't have the muscle. You're zero.
- [02:22]
Casey Bloys
I'm not sure I would do a good job working anywhere. You know, we took the money we.
- [02:27]
Jim Miller
Had and we executed as we did.
- [02:30]
Casey Bloys
But it's not like we ever brought in an audience. So I'm not sure I would be working anywhere with that track record. I mean, I think in some respects the appointment television that premium cable offered, as opposed to the Nielsens, was a window that we were able to crawl through. The difference of HBO is we never.
- [02:49]
Carolyn Strauss
Cared who watched the show.
- [02:51]
Jim Miller
It didn't matter to us, really how.
- [02:54]
Casey Bloys
Many people, what kind of ratings were on a particular show. Sunday night at 8 o'clock. That was not how we made money. What we were selling you was not that show. We were selling you a month of.
- [03:06]
Carolyn Strauss
A service that had all kinds of.
- [03:09]
Casey Bloys
Stuff on it, all of it pretty distinctive.
- [03:13]
Carolyn Strauss
Some of the most important things in a creative process is when the various parties can look at something and see the same thing, that they're all sort of identifying problems. Conflict is great in that, but ultimately, do we know what this is about and are we all together in wanting a certain thing out of it? And I think those are for the most part, good things.
- [03:39]
Casey Bloys
Gates had a famous line about the velocity of change, that things move very slowly until they change immediately. And I think you become very aware when you have that responsibility for managing that change, that nothing is easy and there's no decision that you make that isn't going to affect something else. Everybody isn't going to be happy with every decision you make, whether it's a personnel decision, whether it's a creative decision, whether it's a business decision. And you know, you just have to begin to reconcile all of those tensions. That's part of the job. But I loved it. This whole notion that characters need to be likable is a very network television, you know, rootability and likability, sure, it's nice, but interesting doesn't necessarily mean likable. A lot of times it doesn't. Think about some of the characters. Tony Soprano, Selena Meyer, Hannah Horvath, the Roys. Not necessarily likable people, but interesting. So I kind of push back a little bit on the characters must be likable. I think they need to be interesting and compelling.
- [04:44]
Jim Miller
Here's the architecture to this origins chapter on HBO. Right now, in episode one titled Chief, we will hear unique perspectives from HBO's present day content chief Casey Bloys, his former boss Carolyn Strauss and her predecessor Chris Albrecht. Three eras of HBO programming and between them there are literally too many hits to count. In episode two, a tale of three Women, you will meet three important senior executives currently operating on the front lines of hbo. Amy Gravett, who runs comedy, Francesca Orsi, who is in charge of drama, and Nina Rosenstein, whose domains are late night, unscripted and specials. For episode three on location, we switch perspectives and talk with three stellar executive producers of HBO shows. David Simon and his producing partner Nina Noble, and the showrunner of Insecure and Issa Rae Whisperer, Prentice Penny. Episode four, Table for One, is a conversation with the legendary Sheila Nevins, who spent more than 35 years steering HBO's documentary world. And finally, in episode five, Life at the Top former HBO CEOs Jeff Bukeus, Richard Plepler and Nick Nicklaus get candid about their experiences running the company during markedly different eras and speak about the future of HBO in an ever changing media landscape. Onward to Episode one. Have you ever imagined sitting in a big office and hosting a constant parade of talented people pitching you visions of their passion projects for the television screen? Or getting in a car or plane and visiting the set of a hit show where everybody looks admiringly to you as the boss? Well, first and foremost, keep in mind that while many aspire to such heights, few are ultimately chosen. And second, if your dreams come true and you get such a gig, it is for the most part an outstanding way to earn an outstanding living, even though there will no doubt be times when that dream could turn into a nightmare. The road to the top requires naturally hard work and a bunch of smarts, but it helps if you know how to give out big hugs, big and on occasion, big punches to the gut. Oh, and you also better count on a ton of luck. Note to file, Just because you will be the one in charge doesn't mean you'll be in control of everything Casey Bloys studied economics at Northwestern University and now occupies one of the most highly regarded creative jobs in Hollywood. He serves as Chief Content Officer for HBO and HBO Max, responsible for all HBO original and MAX original series, documentaries, unscripted programs and specials. After starting his career as an assistant in the development and current departments of CBS, Bloys worked as a director of development for Was Stein Productions from 2000 to 2004, then joined HBO Independent Productions before making his way to HBO Entertainment. Bloys went on a cavalcade of promotions for the next decade, surviving an often turbulent culture and numerous competitors as well. In Godfather 2, my favorite motion picture of all time, young Vito's life is forever changed after he obliterates Don Finucci. It was for his field of work, an achievement that, to say the least, bolstered his reputation. Bloys didn't have to whack anybody to get where he is today, but three shows did rise to the top of the dozens and dozens he worked on and helped make him, quote, made. First, he was an important figure during the development and run of HBO's comedy Veep. Second, at a time when some network nabobs wanted to bury it on Cinemax, Bloys proved critical to required re Engineering on HBO's ultra expensive drama Westworld. And third, he bought and nurtured Jesse Armstrong's succession, the gift that keeps on Giving.
- [08:41]
Casey Bloys
I was working for producers that had a deal at what was then Touchstone Television. So that was, you know, a studio for Disney at the time. And so we were doing shows for abc and this is when broadcast networks were still a big deal. And, you know, if you did a show on abc, particularly comedy, I mean, maybe we saw one review if it was like, good, you know, oh, wow, we got a good review. But what I remember going to hbo, being in the meetings with Chris and Carol and everybody, they knew, all the critics, they knew the kind of shows. They'd say, oh, they're not going to like this, or he hates everything. And she likes this and she likes that. I remember thinking, wow, they know all the critics, they have opinions. Was just much more focused on critical reception.
- [09:24]
Jim Miller
In a way. The critics were like their Nielsen ratings, right?
- [09:27]
Casey Bloys
That's right. They had a line, as you remember, for networks. You know, you'd call the next morning to get your fast national. So that was the only thing that mattered, was how did the show do? And here it was a much more complex picture in that obviously ratings mattered, but it was also critical reception and buzz however you want to. You know, it may be easier to quantify that these days with social media, but back then it was just kind of a feeling who was talking about it. So that's what I was struck by, was the focus on and the knowledge of critics and what they like and how they would react to certain shows.
- [10:00]
Jim Miller
I'm going to show my bias right at the beginning of this next introduction. Carolyn Strauss is, I believe, one of the most important individuals in HBO's history. The Harvard educated Strauss came to HBO in the mid-80s, initially spending time in comedy on shows like Larry Sanders, one of HBO's greatest half hours, before adding dramas like Oz. Working alongside her boss, Chris Albrecht, Strauss was a critical force for the development of HBO's holy trifecta around the turn of the century. Sex and the City, the Sopranos and Curb youb Enthusiasm. Strauss's personality, wardrobe, comportment, heck, virtually everything about her was and is 180 degrees from what is considered, considered commonplace in Hollywood. In addition to being smart as hell, Strauss also defined success for herself differently than many in town did. And that gave her just one man's opinion here more time to concentrate on scripts, ideas and meaningful conversations with creators and colleagues. Strauss was indispensable until she left the company. Amazingly enough, it wasn't of her own, doing more about that in Tinderbox. Fortunately for hbo, she stayed in their tent, serving as an executive Producer on triumphs like Game of Thrones and Chernobyl. Most recently, somebody somewhere became part of her portfolio. If Carolyn Strauss had never come to HBO's programming division, the network would be a fraction of what it is today. It's that simple.
- [11:30]
Carolyn Strauss
When I got there, I didn't know anything. I remember, like, sitting on the floor as an assistant, like, sorting memo heads, you know, production, programming. I didn't know the difference between this stuff. Everything I learned, I learned from them.
- [11:47]
Jim Miller
You worked side by side with Chris Albrecht for many years. How much of an advantage do you think that stability was for hbo?
- [11:54]
Carolyn Strauss
Look, I mean, I think some people could look at it as advantage, and some people look at it as a disadvantage, like, are you too insular? I mean, I think some of the most important things in a creative process is when the various parties can look at something and see the same thing in a way or sort of understand what they're. That they're all sort of identifying problems. I mean, I think a bit of conflict is great in that. But ultimately, do we know what this is about, and are we all together in wanting a certain thing out of it?
- [12:25]
Jim Miller
Strauss wanted a play mentor to a new generation of development executives at hbo, several of whom remain with the network today.
- [12:33]
Casey Bloys
Honestly, one of the greatest things that I learned from Carolyn was what working in television meant. And for whatever reason, you can go back in history in terms of why this was the case. But notes and notes and dumb notes, like, in broadcast television, network executives would give you notes on the paint color of the living room wall of a set, and is this person likable? Are they good at their job? Well, the audiences understand this really kind of nitpicky, not necessarily helpful creatively, notes. And what Carolyn was able to do at hbo, and I think what we all learned from her was just boil it down to the essence, like, what are we getting to? So she wouldn't give a ton of notes, but I remember thinking, like, she could just read a script and go, you know, I wish they just did this. And it was like, one simple thing. And you go, oh, why didn't I think about that? You know, like, she could just kind of, like, change the perspective a little bit by changing a couple things here or there. So it wasn't about the number of notes, it was the quality of notes. And I think the other big thing that HBO did and that we still do is, look, when you get into business with a creator, you kind of have to make this deal where we'll give notes, we'll give our thoughts. Ultimately, it's their show. So if we disagree on something, generally speaking, they're going to get, we're going to say, all right, you know, it's your show, so we'll make our case, we'll make our argument. But if someone really, really feels strongly that creatively this is how something has to be, eventually you have to go, okay, you know, and I would say 50% of the time they're right. 50% of the time we're right. You know, it's kind of a draw. So. But the larger point is you're in business with somebody, you got to trust them and live by that.
- [14:19]
Carolyn Strauss
Foreign.
- [14:25]
Chris Albrecht
Hey, I'm Ben Stiller.
- [14:26]
Casey Bloys
I'm Adam Scott and we make a TV show called Severance.
- [14:30]
Chris Albrecht
On January 17th, Severance is back for.
- [14:32]
Jim Miller
Season two on Apple TV and we.
- [14:35]
Chris Albrecht
Can'T wait for you guys to see it.
- [14:36]
Casey Bloys
And before the premiere, Ben and I are going to be binging season one and putting out daily recap podcasts.
- [14:43]
Chris Albrecht
Yep, each weekday beginning January 7th, we'll be dropping an episode featuring exclusive behind the scenes tidbits and brilliant insights from.
- [14:50]
Jim Miller
Our cast and crew and us, Patricia.
- [14:53]
Casey Bloys
Arquette, Britt Lauer, Zach Cherry, John Turturro. The list goes on.
- [14:57]
Chris Albrecht
All your favorite Lumen employees, their friends, families, enemies in your feed every single weekday.
- [15:03]
Casey Bloys
And here's the best part. After that, we're gonna keep going. Tune in weekly as we recap every episode of season two. The podcast drops on the same day the episode comes out.
- [15:14]
Chris Albrecht
It's the Severance Podcast with Ben and.
- [15:16]
Casey Bloys
Adam on Apple Podcasts, the Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [15:27]
Jim Miller
Unlike many HBOers, Chris Albrecht didn't come to the network straight or soon after college. Albrecht had been a comedy manager with an impressive list of clients and an agent at ICM. That background would serve HBO well. Albrecht put together HBO's Apocal comic relief shortly after arriving at the company and while working for Bridget Potter, one of HBO's most passionate pioneers. He brought in other comic specials for HBO and developed shows like Martin for other networks. Aubrich wanted to develop shows for HBO at a time when HBO CEO Michael Fuchs didn't want to play the deficit financing game. As a result, Albrecht tried to leave the company several times, but Fuchs wouldn't let him out of his contract. When Fuchs was fired, Jeff Bewkes took the reins, opened up HBO's checkbook, and Albrecht's HBO career finally began to take shape. As head of programming Beginning in the mid-90s, Albrecht was the chief architect for the development of HBO's comedy and drama slates, while further cementing HBO's reputation as a network whose management was not going to micromanage creators and showrunners. That translated into attracting more writing talent away from the networks and even the movie business.
- [16:39]
Chris Albrecht
Jeff is really the big difference. I mean, Jeff was the leader of the team. He, like any great CEO or coach or manager, he's looking to field the best team and make sure that they can play their best game and make the decisions that need to be made as the leader of the team. But it's really about empowering the team. You know, Michael was the star of the show. And although a lot of affection for Michael, learned a lot from Michael, grateful for him bringing me into the company. It was very much about what Michael's vision was, what Michael thought was possible, what Michael thought was impossible. And, you know, the difference between Night and Day. One is you're always trying to please someone. The other is you're always trying to do your best job you can do. When Jeff came in, what he really let us do was experiment. Not cinematic comedy experiment for $150,000 a half hour. That was the kinds of fun things that Michael would let us do as long as we didn't spend any money, but really experiment and flex our muscles, start to utilize some of the experience we've learned, some of the relationships we'd had and see what was possible. And that was a seminal moment because you went from being constrained and afraid of making a mistake to feeling bold and capable of trying to chart a course that maybe hadn't been charted before.
- [18:09]
Jim Miller
Did the extraordinary success of Sex and the City, the Sopranos, Curb and Six Feet under, wind up being somewhat of a noose for hbo? Did John from Cincinnati, for example, ever have the chance to grow like other shows did?
- [18:22]
Casey Bloys
Sure.
- [18:22]
Chris Albrecht
First of all, I'll hold those first three or four episodes of John from Cincinnati up against a lot of stuff. It was pretty interesting television. You're not afraid of making a mistake when you're not known for something, when you're just starting out and trying. But when you start to achieve a kind of notoriety and a reputation that is revered or, you know, people think you've got some secret sauce. I think what started to happen was the fear of people who didn't understand the process started to seep into Carolyn and my psyche, and we started to maybe listen to voices in our head that maybe weren't even our own voices, but that were voices that weren't there before.
- [19:05]
Jim Miller
Carolyn Strauss agrees I've spoken to you.
- [19:09]
Carolyn Strauss
About this before, but I do think there's a difference between sort of coming out of the shadows with something and trying to create something in a spotlight. Those are two very different dynamics. And I think for things like Sex and the City, Sopranos and those things, we're fairly. Nobody was paying any attention. And you're conscious of trying to do better, top yourself, do better this that, you know, you're always conscious of having to maintain a certain standard, which is good, but it's also, you don't have that kind of devil may care sense that you had when no one was paying attention. You have something to lose, basically.
- [19:51]
Jim Miller
Chris, in terms of your own evolution as a programmer, was there a tipping point?
- [19:55]
Chris Albrecht
Well, I guess. I mean, look, first of all, you're a product of your experiences. So even though 1st and 10, or Vietnam War Story, or Laurel Avenue, Grant Avenue, dream on. You know, those things were not the things that HBO became known for, but they were great learning experiences for me. You can't just step into making television shows or being a programmer, being a producer, and know everything from day one. So all of that stuff was cumulative knowledge and experience that helped me.
- [20:24]
Jim Miller
All right. If you knew then what you know now, what would you have done differently?
- [20:30]
Chris Albrecht
Well, that's a good question. I mean, I think from a process point of view, I probably wouldn't have opened up the dialogue about programming to as many people as I did. I mean, I didn't watch television back then. I don't watch television now. I mean, I'll watch the first episode of something just to see what's going on. It's part of my job. I always felt like watching television, especially once I was really making shows for hbo, it made me more reactionary than being a gut player or being intuitive. It's a balance between instinct and observation. And I think probably what happened was that that balance got thrown off and we didn't trust our instincts as much as we did before. Even though there were a lot of good things that were happening, there just was not room for error. Not room for experimentation, I guess, is really, you know, more even the word. There was only room for success, only room for excellence, which, of course, can't be achieved as a consistent result of human endeavor at a certain point is.
- [21:34]
Carolyn Strauss
The way the world. When there's a lot of pressure on a show, you just don't have the kind of running room to figure the stuff out that you used to be able to. When things were less expensive and there was less attention paid, I Mean, every year, things got more and more and more expensive, and as things got more expensive, there was less ability to take those chances. A lot more is riding on every chance you took. And actually, there were certain challenges that I thought I identified that didn't come to fruition, really.
- [22:03]
Jim Miller
Like, what would be an example of one?
- [22:06]
Carolyn Strauss
Well, like, for instance, when David and Dan said they want to write all the episodes, which they had some help, but by and large, they had very, very minimal sort of room.
- [22:17]
Jim Miller
And.
- [22:17]
Carolyn Strauss
And I was like, you guys are crazy. It ended up working out just fine. So sometimes what you think may be challenges end up not being. And then there are other ones that sneak up on you.
- [22:28]
Jim Miller
Obviously, Game of Thrones was one of the most challenging series of your career. Was there any kind of connection in your head, you know, about what you'd learned from Rome heading into Game of Thrones?
- [22:38]
Carolyn Strauss
Well, I think one of the big things that I learned from Rome, which I'm delighted that we did here, was there's a lot of value to doing a pilot. And we didn't do a pilot on Rome, and we had to shut down. And when a series starts rolling, it is just a freight train going. And trying to make these decisions on the fly are really, really difficult. I think had we not had a pilot on Game of Thrones and we just kept going, we'd have been sunk.
- [23:08]
Jim Miller
When we return, we'll talk with HBO boss Casey Blois about two seminal moments in his career. Two shows, one comedy and one drama, that proved particularly critical to his rise at HBO. Remember the old adage, 95% of success is just showing up? Well, that sure isn't the case in the day. Demanding, hyper competitive world television executives live in. Casey Bloys knows you need to deliver the goods as well in terms of charting your career in the comedy world. Can you talk for a moment about your experience with Veep, please?
- [23:48]
Casey Bloys
Sometimes I would get notes from people almost stamping out the comedy, and I was like, you know, this should be a funny show. Sometimes there was things like if a show made you laugh, maybe it wasn't important enough or it wasn't serious enough. And I remember a reaction I got to the Veep pilot. Somebody said, it's really funny. Like, almost surprised. And I was like, yes, it's a comedy. You know, obviously the transition from Armando to Dave was important, but it was really developing it in the first place. With Armando.
- [24:17]
Jim Miller
At the time you got your promotion to be in charge of both comedy and drama, Westworld was basically shut down, right? Coming from comedy. How important was it to you, Casey, to fix Westworld so you could prove you had solid instincts and capabilities in the drama world?
- [24:33]
Casey Bloys
There was the creative job of kind of like saying, okay, what do we have here? And the good news was they had really interesting storylines. It was a big cultural issue. There was a breakdown of trust. And you chronicle this in the book, but a lot of it was just being able to speak honestly and openly with Lisa and Jonah and saying, look, here's where we are. Here's the situation, here's what I can do, here's what I can't do, and just digging in on the material. So for a lot of reasons, which you probably know better than anybody at this point, it was a broken line of communication between the creatives, Jonah and Lisa, and the network. And so a big part of my job coming in was saying, all right, let's turn the page. Let's have a new relationship and building that trust. Because, you know, as we were talking about giving notes, you really have to have trust between a network and creative. And I think you do have some benefit coming in new and saying, all right, I know it didn't work before. Let's try and rebuild on that from a company perspective. You know, just understanding what was on the line in terms of resources and also reputation. Because the show shutting down, you know, that just became a story for the press, like, oh, my God, what's going on there? You know, exaggerated. But I knew a lot was at stake. And so I thought, if nothing else, I got to spend as much time as I can on this and try to get it into shape. Because you talk about this in book as well. But I would say it's fair to say a lot of people had internally had written the show off as a disaster or done or nothing's going to come of it. I remember reading the LA Times review when we finally put it out in November of that year, and it was a rave review, and it felt really, really good. That was very instructive, my time on Westworld. And it was a happy ending.
- [26:27]
Jim Miller
Since Westworld was a show that had already been on its way. I asked Bloys if there was a drama that he had bought and loved, one where he was able to be its guardian right from the start.
- [26:37]
Casey Bloys
I would say probably Succession, which I developed from the beginning. Having that turn into kind of a signature HBO show, was probably where I felt like, okay, you know, you've done a drama that broke through. Looking at the slate we had and what was on the air elsewhere. I really felt like we needed family shows. One of the things Carolyn used to talk about when we would develop things is she would call it the crunchy top. You know, like in a creme brulee. Like you're going to tell a story about a family, but what's the crunchy top? And I always thought a really good example of this was a show she did called Big Love with Bill Paxton. The great way to explain this was it was a show about marriage, but he had three wives and they all lived next to each other, so that would be the crunchy top, right? And so what I liked about succession was everybody can relate to family. Regardless of your economic circumstances or marital status, whatever. Everybody has some version of mother, father, brother, sister, some version of that, you know, so you can relate to it. And the thing I liked about it was, you know, as Jesse originally pitched, it's a family, but their dysfunction kind of reverberates around the globe. And I thought, all right, that's an interesting way to look at a family. A different way gives you a different culture that you really don't see that often. The lives of billionaires. And we try to do things authentically. So it just felt like an interesting thing. The thing about the cast, which we've done multiple times since, is, you know, I feel like what we used to do at HBO was we would cast very good actors, some well known, some not, but not giant stars. And, you know, the show would turn them into stars. Best example, you know, Sopranos. I think with succession, that cast, and I mean, every single cast member, they have been elevated by doing these roles, by the roles that Jesse's written for them and their work on it. This whole notion that characters need to be likable is a very networked television. Rootability and likability, sure, it's nice. But interesting doesn't necessarily mean likable. A lot of times it doesn't. Think about some of the characters. Tony Soprano, Selina Meyer, Hannah Horvath, the Roys. Not necessarily likable people, but interesting. So I kind of push back a little bit on the characters must be likable. I think they need to be interesting and compelling.
- [29:06]
Jim Miller
One can't underestimate the disruption to HBO caused by the AT&T acquisition.
- [29:13]
Carolyn Strauss
I think I lived through a lot of different mergers, acquisitions, whatever, however you want to talk about them when I was an executive. But I think there was nothing more fundamentally transformative to the culture than the at&t.1. But the other part of it is that while that I think Transformed the company in many, many ways. A lot of the people that worked with me when I was an executive in programming, whereas, you know, Casey Bloys and Amy Gravett and Francesca Orsi, they're still there.
- [29:43]
Jim Miller
Is workload one of those elements in your mind?
- [29:46]
Carolyn Strauss
Yeah, I mean, people are extraordinarily busy. I mean, but I think that, you know, it's part and parcel of across the whole television industry. But I think one of the things that made HBO Special was the fact that it wasn't like the rest of the TV industry in a lot of ways, that you could spend the time and the care on stuff, and it's just hard to do that when you have a million projects. I think it's really hard to operate in a world where, you know, maybe the people who are, you know, your bosses don't necessarily understand. I never talked to an AT&T person. I couldn't tell you.
- [30:21]
Chris Albrecht
I have no idea.
- [30:22]
Carolyn Strauss
But it does feel like they didn't necessarily see the value of the HBO brand in the same way, or at least what it takes to maintain that.
- [30:31]
Jim Miller
You'Re currently working on a variety of projects with hbo. Are there some days or nights when you think, I'm so glad I'm not operating in those executive hallways nowadays?
- [30:40]
Carolyn Strauss
Oh, my God, yeah. You know, I mean, look, while it was really difficult leaving the company in the way I did, I honestly could say that I feel very good about where everything is, you know, every day I enjoy doing what I'm doing. So I'm glad not to be doing the other stuff.
- [30:58]
Jim Miller
Euphoria is obviously more than just a teenage show, but it's taken the HBO brand to a different place. Right. When you were an executive, did you ever try and develop, quote, a teenage show?
- [31:09]
Carolyn Strauss
I think there may be one or two things that we tried. I mean, I always had in my head I wanted to do some sort of, like, high school garageband show, really. But it was always a very discouraged pathway because, you know, it was always like, who's writing the checks? Who are you programming? It wasn't sort of an audience that we were really looking to.
- [31:28]
Jim Miller
So what do you think about the show?
- [31:30]
Carolyn Strauss
You know, honestly, as a parent of a teenager, I know it's really well done and that I'll wait till I have more distance. I just can't. It's like, I have enough upset. I can't deal. But, you know, I hear from many, many people that I, and whose tastes I really respect that they love the show.
- [31:50]
Jim Miller
Let me ask you, at this stage in your career. How do you make a decision about what you want to be involved with? Is it material driven? Is it like a hybrid of the material and the people? How do you triage?
- [32:02]
Carolyn Strauss
You know, you get to a certain age and you start thinking about sort of the state of the world and what you want to put out there, and you're like, oh, God, you know, what am I putting out there? And I think, you know, like, for instance, with somebody somewhere, which is on HBO now, I think we made a real sort of considered attempt to be very intentional in what we were doing and how we were putting something out there. And I think, you know, Bridget was very much in lockstep with that idea. And I think being able to work with people like Bridget and Hannah and Paul and the team there has just been a godsend. And I think that the same with people at Sister that I'm working with, it's like we look at a piece of material and go, do we have passion for this? Do we want to work with the person who's doing it? You know, in the best of all possible worlds, that's how you make your decision.
- [32:56]
Jim Miller
With David Zaslav and Discovery set to take over the company this spring, a lot of big question marks await answers. Let's talk about present day. Casey. If David Zaslav were to say to you, listen, there was a decision made a couple years ago to call our streaming brand HBO Max, but I've decided you can call the service anything you want, what would you tell him?
- [33:19]
Casey Bloys
That's a hard question to answer. I think the question you're asking is, you know, is the HBO Max title going to stay, or should it stay? And I will say it's obviously been a challenge to have the name of the platform within it. That has led, obviously, to some confusion, but it's hard to answer because we haven't been able to talk in any way with Discovery. So I have no idea if it's going to be one big service or if it's going to be bundled or what. But having the name HBO in the programming service, it has been a well chronicled challenge. But even despite that, I think we're doing really well.
- [33:52]
Jim Miller
Do you feel like you're well positioned for success against Netflix, Disney and those other competitors for the next couple years, or do you think you'll need a whole hell of a lot more money to survive?
- [34:03]
Casey Bloys
Well, what I say, more money is always nice. I will say there's lots of different metrics, and you could kind of bat down any one of these as well, you know, what about this? What about that? But one just most recently, because it's January, we just went through the best of lists, and I think between HBO and HBO Max, we dominated the top 10 best shows list, depending on the publication. But I think we had more than anybody else, more than any other platform. The fact that we can do that at the budget level we're at, I think it's pretty good. So more money is always nice. It's not everything, you know, because you still have to make shows that connect with people, but I think we're doing pretty well.
- [34:41]
Jim Miller
Coming up on episode two of our Origins HBO chapter, you'll meet three important women running key parts of the HBO Amy Gravett and Francesca Orsi, who oversee comedy and drama, respectively, and Nina Rosenstein, whose domain is late night specials and unscripted content. Thank you for listening to Origins, a presentation of C13 originals, a Cadence 13 studio. This podcast is executive produced by myself and Chris Corcoran, Chief Content Officer and founding partner of C13. It's produced and edited by my brother in arms, Chris Basel, who always delivers many thanks. Thanks extend to Terence Malangone, who provides much appreciated production assistance in the trenches and our terrific Cadence 13 gang. Production coordination by Kelly Rafferty, marketing PR and graphic design from Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff and Curt Courtney. Cadence 13 is an Odyssey company. We'll see you next episode.
- [35:54]
Casey Bloys
The new year is here and it's the perfect time to kickstart your meditation practice. The Morning Meditation for Women podcast has short daily guided meditations that will help you start your day with intention and focus and make it so easy to get you into the habit. Imagine feeling so much more calm and confident. It in 2025. Follow and listen to Morning Meditation for Women on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcast.