C (2:12)

Yeah. Just because. I don't know. It sounds like that to me.

B (2:15)

Yeah.

A (2:15)

They could have been recording on an $80,000 mic, a ribbon microphone.

C (2:19)

In a world. In a world where everyone has their own podcast and everyone has, like, a. Yeah. Really nice microphone at their disposal. This is, like, what would happen, I think.

A (2:27)

Yeah. Maybe it was recorded by an audio file.

C (2:30)

Honestly, the audio setup.

A (2:33)

This is your time to shine, Theo.

C (2:36)

Underrated setup, in my opinion. Used widely, but underrated because a lot of engineers will make fun of you for having a Focusrite, but it's kind of like it's kind of like being a guitar player, you know what I mean? Like, it's the people's instrument. The Focusrite Scarlett is the people's audio interface.

A (2:53)

Yeah, I clocked that right away. She's using a Focusrite Scarlett Solo third generation USB audio interface. I have one of those myself.

C (3:04)

I think all of us do.

E (3:05)

Not me and the other.

A (3:06)

I have two Scarlets.

E (3:07)

I don't know what you're talking about.

B (3:08)

I don't know what that is.

A (3:10)

It's okay. You guys don't need to know.

C (3:12)

Don't need to know what this is.

A (3:13)

You don't need to know that. Better consider yourself lucky that you don't know what that is.

B (3:17)

I think I've seen it before.

C (3:19)

They're very popular because they work pretty good and they're not very expensive. And people who talk shit about them usually have some type of complex about audio quality.

A (3:32)

I noticed she was using, I think a rode PSA1 swivel mount studio boom arm for her mic. I could not ID the mic. Did you guys, did either of you get an ID on the mic?

D (3:45)

Yeah.

A (3:46)

I knew it.

D (3:46)

Yeah, it's the RE20, the electro voice RE20. It's a broadcast mic that was known professionally as the donkey dick mic.

A (3:56)

Okay.

C (3:58)

Yeah, I've seen some like. And why is that almost like right wing? Kind of like cultural critics refer to it as too phallic.

A (4:09)

Really?

C (4:09)

Men shouldn't use it because it's too phallic. Yeah.

A (4:12)

Where is this audio discourse taking place? You guys are on a different side of the Internet than me.

D (4:19)

It's like a classic. Cuz I, I, I've done like work for like public radio and that's like a, it's like an old school radio mic.

A (4:27)

It's a good microphone. Yeah. I'm just imagining the people at A24 hearing this right now and like hearing my hearing. The theos say that the mic is a right wing coated phallic mic.

D (4:39)

Anti right wing.

E (4:40)

Because they're.

C (4:41)

Oh, they don't want to use it because they don't want to, they don't want to put something that looks like a penis like near their mouth. Even though like almost every microphone ever made is phallic.

B (4:51)

That didn't come to mind when I saw it.

A (4:54)

Well, you're a healthy person, Nikki. You're a healthy person.

C (4:58)

You're not like a man with like a problem.

A (5:01)

You also didn't see it and immediately recognized the microphone because you are mentally healthy.

B (5:07)

I just saw a microphone.

A (5:09)

Okay, so we're Here in this episode to discuss our own experiences doing the real life version of this job, the job that this movie is about. We all work on this paranormal podcast. That's probably the number one thing I get asked about is like, do you get scared making the show? What is it like making the show? I mean, I assume you guys are getting asked these same questions, right?

B (5:31)

Yeah.

A (5:33)

Has anything frightened you? Given you chills? Has there been a bump in the night?

B (5:40)

I mean, I was. I guess I was talking to Jack about this yesterday, but. But, like, people often send in videos or, like, audio recordings, and sometimes it's like, no explanation for it. They're just like, this was crazy. And then I have to listen to it or watch it, and I'm like, covering the screen with my hand just in case. Cause I don't know what it can be.

A (6:04)

Yeah. I was gonna say your job is scary in its own way, Nikki, because you are reading everything that comes in.

B (6:11)

Yeah.

A (6:12)

And, yeah, like, opening mysterious files for a number of reasons is frightening. You don't know what's going to be on there. It could be any.

B (6:21)

I mean, it could be truly anything.

A (6:24)

I could have to imagine as a woman opening a mysterious file sent from a man in general is frightening. Or from anyone. From anyone, but from a stranger. Yeah.

B (6:38)

Most of the time they're videos, which is, I guess, worse than just an audio recording. But there are some videos people send where I'm just like, that is kind of weird. Like, I don't know.

A (6:50)

Have you seen any scary ones?

B (6:52)

I think there was one that I sent in, like, the Discord Group chat, where it was like, these boys and it was like a Snapchat video. Do you remember this?

E (7:01)

Oh, yeah. In the thing in the back of the car or something.

B (7:04)

Yeah. Yes.

E (7:06)

Yeah. But I feel like they just made that them. Like, that's the thing.

B (7:12)

I don't know.

A (7:13)

With video and any kind of, like, evidence with the paranormal. Especially in the age of AI social media being incentivized now for, like, people to make money on views.

C (7:23)

Yeah.

A (7:25)

When you see something that's really convincing, you're kind of automatically jumped to like, okay, well, this must be fake. The better quality it is, the more you think it's not real. If it's so bad that you don't think it's fake, then it's probably not convincing. So it has, like this reverse effect.

B (7:40)

You know, we.

E (7:43)

Theo, I have a question. Because there's a point in the. In the movie where he's like, okay, there's something weird in the Audio here. There's, like. There's another layer of audio under the other, under the initial layer. And I don't deny. I don't even know what that would mean or look like. Do you know what I'm talking about? Like, what is that?

D (8:00)

You could maybe see that in a spectrogram.

C (8:02)

Yeah, you would be able to see that in a spectrogram.

E (8:04)

But what does that even mean? Like, there's another. What is. There's another. I think you say layer.

D (8:08)

Another voice.

C (8:10)

Yeah. Like, theoretically, if. If it was in a spectrogram and there was two voices and they were, like, different registers, you'd be able to see them individually, like, along the, like, timeline.

A (8:20)

Okay, I'll take this opportunity to compliment you. You've been able to work miracles on some of our most distorted files in the past. I've been shocked at the stuff you've been able to do to it.

C (8:31)

Yeah, I'm even, like, a pro izotope user.

D (8:36)

Well.

A (8:36)

Oh, well, how do we get a pro?

C (8:37)

I know. I know people who can do way more than me.

A (8:41)

Can I have their phone, email, phone number?

C (8:43)

No, actually.

A (8:44)

Are they looking for words?

C (8:45)

I'm not that close to them. I've had to use the spectrogram in the. We had an episode where we got sent, like, little, like, almost like a voice recorder that would be using, like, ghost adventures and something. I forget which episode it was, but I had to clean those files up.

A (9:03)

That was Hunter Prisk.

C (9:05)

Yeah. And that was. That was probably a season or episode in the show that actually made me scared, because there was one that I was listening to by myself. It's like a weird mono file, and I can see, like, variations in the sound, like, in the spectrogram. If you don't know what a spectrogram looks like, Listener. If you just Google that, I think you'll intuitively understand what it's doing. But, yeah, so you can kind of. In Izotope, you can kind of select with, like, a lasso tool certain areas and then make them louder. And so you can make, like, specific sounds, like, in the background noise of something louder. And there was a time where I was doing that for a recording we had, and it legitimately was scary sounding. And, yeah, I had to show my fiance, Sydney, it. Cause I was like, what do you think this is? And she's much more skeptical than I am. I'm more on the fence most of the time. Yeah, she's very much like, that's fake. But I was like, I don't know how they Would fake it. I'm looking at the audio. It doesn't seem like it's really clean. And there's, like, a weird sound in the background.

A (10:11)

Yeah, that was a really weird.

C (10:12)

On me. I tried to also highlight what we. Because we put two of the recordings in the episode. One I thought was, like, really clear. If you, like, really kind of zone in on it, you can hear something in kind of, like, the middle register of, like, a voice or something moving. And then there was another recording that people said they just couldn't hear anything at all. But I swear to you, in, like, visually, I found something. And, like, maybe just because I can see it when I listen to it, I could hear something. But there was people on Instagram being like, there wasn't anything in that recording. But I swear to you, I could see it. And it was there.

A (10:50)

I heard it, too, and I heard the recordings. I mean, that was a scary episode that was like, you know, probably the one that sticks out in terms of our episodes that's most similar to this movie that involves this girl hunter and her mom. She kind of finds out that her mom was secretly this ghost hunter. Right. Kind of finds out that she was very involved in this and has this whole hidden life. And I believe, like, the mom had these recordings that were supposedly recorded in a very haunted house after they had left the room. And objectively, there was a bunch of scary sounds on the recordings. I listened to them. They are very scary. It's weird because it's like you don't know what's in the room, so you don't know what it could or couldn't be. Yeah, but it was. There was stuff on there. It was scary.

C (11:39)

Also, just for, like, debate about whether or not this. These things are real. Like, I don't know what happened in the room, obviously, but they sent. They physically sent me the recorder because they didn't know how to get the file off of the. Off of it. And I had to. And then I had to, like, convert the file into something that was usable for us. So.

A (12:01)

Yes.

C (12:01)

They didn't. They didn't, like, digitally manipulate it at least.

A (12:04)

No, absolutely not. Yeah, I remember they did that. And part of that was I was like, I don't want them to, like, accidentally ruin this recorder while they're trying to file off.

C (12:14)

Yeah. If it's faked, it's something they did there, and we. We weren't there.

A (12:18)

So, I mean, it would be too subtle to fake. Nobody would fake something so subtle.

C (12:22)

It was extremely quiet. Yeah.

A (12:24)

But, yeah, that episode and listening to that was frightening. I mean, the one time. I mean, there's been a couple times I've been, like, a little stirred while making the show. But I remember one time that sticks out to me. I guess it wasn't necessarily fear, but it was when we were recording. After we recorded Eagle Eye and Rene sent all of the belongings of her ex boyfriend who has passed away. And, like, the premise of the story is, like, that he visited her as a spirit a lot. Right. Like, that this is something he can do. Well, that was just a first for me where all of a sudden I had this guy's, like, belongings from the story, like, a lot of them in my house. And I remember treating them with respect. And I did keep them out in my garage. And when I put them out in the garage, I remember saying out loud, I'm like, hey, sorry, man. No disrespect, but, you know, they're gonna stay out here for now. I did say that out loud. I remember just opening that package and being like, this is definitely a first. You know, I'm usually just talking to people, but this is the first time a dead person's belongings are, like, now in my home.

B (13:32)

But, yeah, Jack, you had me. You had me scan all of those, like, letters and stuff, and that was really interesting. It makes it much more real because I was also in the interviews with you, Renee, and those were, like, four hour interviews, talking to her and getting to know, like, her life with this person so intimately. And then you're, like, interacting, and it just makes it so tangible.

A (13:58)

Yeah. And one of the items was his shirt, which is, like, a part of this. It was having his clothes was wild.

B (14:05)

The love letters.

A (14:07)

Yeah, the love letters were amazing. That was still one of my favorite episodes.

D (14:12)

Did you try on the shirt?

A (14:14)

I did not try on the shirt.

B (14:16)

I do remember you texting me, though. Like, these shirts are fire.

A (14:21)

It was a cool shirt. It was a nice vintage. He had one that was incredible. In fact, the shirt, which the episode was named after, that features an eagle. That one was really good. If I saw it at a thrift store, it would be an instant purchase.

E (14:38)

I mean, what's the difference? It probably could end up in a thrift store anyway.

A (14:42)

Are you saying I should have kept a dead man's shirt?

E (14:45)

I mean, worn it? I'm sure. I'm always wearing dead people's clothes. That's basically everything I own is thrifted. What does it matter?

A (14:55)

Yeah, but there's not.

E (14:57)

Or like, you know, you got a connection.

A (14:58)

Well, it's one thing if a person passes away and they donate their clothes and then you buy it later. It's another thing if I'm interviewing a woman for six to seven hours, she then she sends me her lover's belongings and then she sees me tagged in an Instagram post wearing his shirt at

C (15:18)

a bar,

A (15:20)

drinking a Pilsner in her long lost lover's shirt.

C (15:24)

It's a cool shirt.

E (15:25)

So you still have all this stuff?

A (15:27)

No, no, I of course sent it back.

E (15:29)

Sent it back. Okay.

A (15:30)

Yeah, I sent it back.

D (15:31)

I haven't been scared since the Woman in the Bath episode, but that one did scare me.

A (15:36)

The Woman in the Bath one was extremely frightening. I remember that one, Theo, because she

D (15:41)

has a very, like, deadpan voice. It's very soft spoken. It's just describing these, like, fatal frame style scary things happening to her. Yeah. Then I was editing that with. In headphones alone. Yeah.

A (15:56)

Yeah. I really. I love stories from Japan. I wish we got more of them, but that was a particularly frightening story. Yeah, that was an early one too.

E (16:05)

I just watched the Ring again and like, the American one, but I've seen the Japanese one as well. And like, I will say that, like, this is related because it's kind of about them. Like when, when you. The episode's them. Like when you had that thing where Siri kind of spoke to you and was. And said, I'll see you when you're 40. And then, like, we were kind of wondering if, like, that meant, like, maybe you were. You were wondering if that meant maybe you were going to die when you were 40. And that scared, like, like, if that happened to me, it would have wrecked my life. Like, I'm so glad that happened to you and not me because, like, I couldn't even watch the Ring until I was like, very recently because I still had this like, OCD thing where I was like, if I even watch. If I watch the recording of the tape of the Ring tape in the movie, then I'm going to die in seven days. And even if, like, I knew that that wasn't, you know, it's like, would just ruin my week. And so when that happened to you, I was just like, God, thank God that didn't happen to me because that would have. That would stick with me forever.

A (17:16)

Well, what's funny about that is after it happened, part of me is wondering what that even was. But I was like, if it's true, what does that mean? And the things that my brain automatically jumped to were all positive. I was obviously thinking about, like, meeting These beings. And I imagine that being a cool experience, something.

E (17:35)

But you did say, you said that.

A (17:36)

And then I was like, oh, maybe I'll do something awesome in my life. Maybe they're seeing me do something cool. But what's funny is that it took me a very long time before I considered like, oh wait, what if it means that I'm going to die when I'm 40? I don't know what that says about me, my optimistic outlook, but it took me a while before I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess the most people would look at that. Most people would think this is a death omen. In fact, that makes probably the most sense. If that happens, it'll be good for the show.

E (18:07)

Sure.

A (18:08)

If it happens, it'll be good for the show and go on record that I give you permission to completely exploit it.

E (18:15)

Awesome. Thank you.

C (18:16)

Yeah, we're gonna, we're just gonna keep making the show.

A (18:18)

T shirt airbrush T shirts for you guys. I give you permission to do it right here.

E (18:24)

Do any of you remember like the scary stories to tell in the dark books?

C (18:29)

Yes.

A (18:30)

Yeah.

E (18:30)

Do you remember the one where they go to the, the cemetery and they see the corpse and then like a year later or something they, they, the person that saw it dies and they had the same face as the corpse. Same, same thing. This is what, this is the kind of like the audio thing or like the visual thing, like that scares me is like if you look at something or you hear something, then like not even like it's going to happen right away but like sometime in, like in the future that it's going to kill you or it's going to, it's going to lead to something. But it's never, it hasn't, hasn't happened yet. Yeah, we haven't encountered anything quite like that yet.

B (19:09)

That was like one of the things. Yet that was one of the things.

E (19:12)

As if that's like actually possible.

B (19:15)

I was thinking about that while watching the movie where, I don't know, I just. They, I would never unleash true evil onto people. Like if we got something in the emails.

E (19:30)

No shit.

A (19:32)

Thank you, Nikki.

E (19:33)

Me personally, I would never release true, true evil onto anybody.

B (19:38)

Do you know what I mean? Like they were just like, keep going on, keep listening to the tapes and like broadcasting it. And I was like, this is so irresponsible.

E (19:48)

Well, he did try and I don't want to give spoilers, but like there is some push pull about if they should keep going.

A (19:55)

Well, I also don't know if they thought it was real or not, you know?

E (19:58)

Right.

B (19:59)

She didn't, I guess.

A (20:01)

But we don't want to. We don't want to give too many spoilers for this movie. But I understand what you're saying, Nikki. That's very noble of you.

E (20:07)

But.

A (20:07)

Yeah, like, if. If you're. If there was something you legitimately thought was too evil. Is that what you're saying?

B (20:13)

Yeah. Like, if we got something and I would just.

A (20:17)

I mean, that happens. That's literally happened. Like, I mean, even just parts of stories that we've edited out recently. I know we cut details out of one that was just, like, describing something too horrible where I was like, nobody needs to hear this. You know, that's happened before. Have there been emails that have freaked you out? I mean, so you read all of them. You read everything that comes in. And I know everybody kind of dives in there, but you're the main person reading it. Are there ones that have, like, freaked you out at all?

B (20:51)

The most recent thing that scared me was the interview that Haley and I did. It was the episode that was gonna come out last week, but we decided not to do it.

A (21:02)

Oh, yeah, that was horrifying.

B (21:04)

That was the first thing people hear. It eventually really did impact me.

A (21:10)

Yeah, that was horrifying. The ones that have freaked me out are ones that people either stopped responding to us or, like, there's been a couple where, like, a person has backed out because they've been scared.

B (21:27)

Yeah.

A (21:28)

I mean, there is this one. We were interviewing a lady from, like, Sweden or something about her brother who was, like, worshiping. Oh, my God, something demonic and, like, weird stuff happening with him.

B (21:39)

And she kind of, like, even the interview was weird.

A (21:43)

She cut it short, said she would finish it later, but she just kind of kept dodging us. And that was, like, an abrupt ending, given the circumstances. Like, she kind of seemed freaked out. That one's really bothered me. I mean, we've been continuously trying to get this person to come back that unfortunately happens a good amount, where somebody ghosts us. If you're listening to this and you're a person who has done that, please come back. We would love to interview you. But, yeah, it does make it those

E (22:15)

stories that, like, stick. Because also, like, there are. There are instances, like, all of the stories that stick with me the most are honestly the ones that we never got to interview. And, like, you were mentioning earlier that, like, not Area 51, Area X. I don't know. Can't remember what it was, but, like,

A (22:31)

it was something like that. Yeah, we don't want to reveal too much, but I know exactly what you're talking about.

E (22:35)

It was so like out of, like straight out of Silent Hill. And I just like, think about it probably like once a week and just wish that, yeah, this guy backed out that person. But then again, maybe it's best that we never did. And then it just kind of stays as this thing.

A (22:51)

Was it like pouring abandoned houses and they found like blood on the wall or something?

E (22:55)

Like it was like a. Like a foggy, like maybe like an abandoned, like, suburb kind of. Or like, like housing tract kind of thing.

B (23:05)

Sector X.

E (23:06)

That's what it was called, Sector X. And there was. There was like a Someone with an axe or something. I can't. There's.

B (23:12)

It's been a long time.

A (23:14)

Do you remember the story about like, somebody's dog getting pulled under the.

B (23:18)

Oh, my God, yes.

A (23:20)

That one freaked me out.

B (23:22)

That one was crazy.

A (23:25)

This was another person who didn't reply. Like they stopped replying. But it was. What was the gist of it, Nikki?

B (23:30)

Oh, my gosh. This was like when I first started working. So like three years ago, maybe. It was like a house. And he was house sitting, I think, and he had his dog with him. And there was a basement and it was like a cursed basement or something. And there was like a little hole to get in there. And I think it was something about like he got like pulled in, but it was empty in there and like he couldn't. Like something was pulled, pulling him in and he couldn't crawl. Something like. Do you remember this time the dog

A (24:03)

was being pulled in, right?

B (24:04)

It was a dog, not him. Oh, maybe he got pulled in or maybe the dog. I don't. I don't remember. It's been so long. But it wasn't the person who experienced it that submitted the story. It was like their sister. And so we kept trying to, like, tell us, like, put us in touch with your brother. And then she'd be like, the brother does not want to talk about this. I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have emailed you. But that happens often. Yeah, we get a lot of. Really? Sometimes the craziest stories are the ones that, like, they just decide to not want to share it. We have a lot of those.

A (24:50)

Cause it's usually the people who are the most scared, which makes me the most interested. Of course.

B (24:56)

Yeah, it really.

A (24:58)

That's the most painful part about this show is like the ones that get away. Yeah, it really is the worst part.

B (25:05)

And then it's like for me at least it's just. I don't even care about making the episode. Like, I just want to talk to you and know what happened.

A (25:15)

No, yeah, no, it is like that. We don't have to record it. I just want to hear it at a certain point.

B (25:19)

I just want to hear it to know I'm very curious.

E (25:22)

Like the guy who met God at Burger King or whatever.

B (25:25)

Oh, my God. I don't know.

E (25:28)

He kept saying. Okay, he kept, like, saying he wanted to record and then backing out. And then. Yeah, but I think he was probably.

B (25:35)

There was another one that we got, and it was this man who. He was working on a boat or something on a lake, and he said that these beings came to him. Remember this, Theo?

D (25:48)

I remember this. Yeah.

B (25:49)

These beings came to him. Beings, beings. And then like, all of a sudden, he, like, woke up on shore and he had no memory of how that happened to him.

A (26:00)

Huh.

B (26:00)

Yeah. Crazy. And then I reached out to him and he just was like, I don't want to talk about this. Like, I. I shouldn't have sent that email. And I was just like, okay, like, I respect your decision.

C (26:18)

Yeah. The mystery is always the most intriguing aspect of it.

B (26:23)

Yeah.

C (26:24)

I think also one that freaked me out was the chicken whackers.

A (26:27)

Oh, absolutely.

C (26:29)

I like, absolutely. That American, like, almost occult myth stuff. Like, it reminded me of like the first season of True Detective or something. And like, when. When we were talking about it before we were making the actual episode. But just like, looking this stuff up, the. How much, like, how little information there was on the Internet was so surprising to me and like, because I just feel like it doesn't happen anymore. Like, everything is documented or like, there's like Reddit threads about stuff. This, when we looked it up, at least there was like maybe four or five, like, Google search results that made sense at all. Everything else was like, non related. And I was like, whoa, this is like, actually something that seems freaky.

A (27:15)

And that is one of my favorite ones. And also, you know, I did talk to people more about that later. People even sent me some, like, documents related to it. But it got enough where I was like, look, if this is real, if even if it's like real people doing bad things that, like, it has been credited to the chicken whackers or whatever. Like, I'm like, I don't know if I really want to go poking this bear personally.

E (27:42)

They. That seemed to be the consensus from, like, because I was doing the TikTok at the time and I would make. I was making a series of Videos about the Chicken Whackers. And I would get comments and DMs being like, you need to stop looking into this.

A (28:01)

Really?

E (28:02)

Yeah. Like, yeah. And then, you know, one person was like, if you want to come out here, I'll show you, like, the underground tunnels where, like, all this stuff goes down and stuff. But, like, but he was like, but you cannot be public about it. Like, you need to stop talking about this. And it didn't scare me because I don't live anywhere near Grand Junction, Colorado. And like, I don't necessarily think that the Chicken Wackers is related to, like, a grand, grander, like, Pan American conspiracy, but the idea of going down there and like, actually, you know, some of this being real was pretty scary.

A (28:40)

Yeah. Like, whether or not it's like a cult or paranormal, like, that's one thing, but, you know, the reality is, like, homeless people get killed all the time and, like, disappear. And victims of things like that for all sorts of reasons, you know, that's real. That's scary. There are conspiracies, powerful people covering things up. Like that happens whether or not it's related to the occult.

E (29:06)

Like, well, also, it's like, even if something like, it doesn't matter if the results of, like, people believe in the occult and people practice the occult, no matter what, no matter whether or not the results are. Are actually paranormal, supernatural, like, people still do the actions related to the Right. So people do. Still do the rituals, whether or not the results are real. And that's the scary part, I think,

B (29:37)

for me, Haley, wasn't there, like, wasn't there a phone number that we were going to call or something to remember this?

E (29:45)

Yeah, Jack, I almost think you did call. We did like a. We did like, start or. We did like a Google number.

A (29:53)

Yeah.

E (29:54)

Or. No, it was on Reddit. It was on Reddit. There was a number on Reddit that said, if you want to know more about the Chicken Whackers, call me. And they put their number. And I pretty sure you called. I'm pretty sure you did, but I think that nobody answered.

B (30:08)

I don't. I remember too, because, like, the Redditor account, I don't know who commented that, like, if you go on their account history, it was like, the only thing that they had.

E (30:20)

Nothing else.

B (30:21)

Yeah, nothing else.

E (30:22)

But that comment.

B (30:23)

It was really.

C (30:23)

It was just like the exact amount of information on the Internet about this at the time that it seemed like, legitimate and creepy. Like, it didn't. It didn't seem like a. What is it called when People kind of make like a. Oh, I know. A game to follow the arg. Yeah. It didn't seem like an argument. And like comparing it to like the videos on TikTok of people being like, I'm going out into the woods and I'm calling to see a skinwalker every 20 seconds for like five days. It's like, oh, this is. This seems like kind of covered up or like hidden in some way. And so it felt it was older too.

B (30:58)

Getting scared was talking about it right now.

A (31:00)

I know. Yeah. And I was sent a bunch of like. I was sent a bunch of like legal documents where this was like brought up and like investigated and stuff. You know, this name does pop up. Yeah. It was one of those where I. I think True Detective is a very good comparison. Theo, I think you mentioned that, like, it's something where it's like, okay, maybe it's a cult. Maybe it is political power covering something unrelated up. Maybe it's a mix of the both. Either way, it's like I knew that I was not equipped to do it. There's like a weekly show. People who were not equipped, not equipped at all. I mean, I was ready to go.

E (31:36)

I was like, let's go.

A (31:39)

I mean, the thing is, like, the journalists who do investigate stuff like this, they dedicate sometimes their entire career to it. And like, I know this sounds dramatic, but they get killed. Like, this has happened like many times. Like, journalists have been killed in the process of investigating shadowy things. You know, we've interviewed on the show the guys who made the Octopus murders, which was a great Netflix doc that is about a journalist who abruptly dies under very suspicious circumstances while investigating this, like, all encompassing conspiracy theory. I hate using that word. Even now. I don't like using the word conspiracy theory. Cause it has that tinfoil hat connotation. But. And we live in an era where like, some of the biggest ones have been revealed to be just completely true and in some cases even crazier than what people thought.

E (32:32)

Yeah.

B (32:33)

Yeah.

A (32:33)

But, yeah. Point being is that great example of a time I've been scared in the show is that one where I legitimately reached a point where I'm like, you know what? Like, I don't think I feel comfortable going further with this. Yeah, Nothing good would come from that.

C (32:50)

Right.

D (32:51)

I just am a cautious person. So I'm not trying to invite anything down upon me, whether I believe in it or not. But I feel like maybe more in the zone of. In the danger zone here than like versus New York.

A (33:06)

I think when I started Making the show, I thought I was going to be too scared. I mean, this sounds so corny, but I thought I would be too frightened to, like, do this all year round legitimately. I thought it would just be, like, material that I wouldn't want to engage with on a week to week basis. But it's been easier than I thought to do that. I think part of it is just, like, it becomes normalized or you become a little desensitized or something.

E (33:32)

Totally.

A (33:33)

But, yeah, I did. I thought I would be more scared on the regular. But yeah,

B (33:41)

going back to that question where, like, do people ever ask you, like, do you get scared making the show? I remember I was at, like, a bar at a show with Sava, and, like, one of his co workers was there, and he asked me what I do, and I told him, and he was like, whoa, so what do you believe in? And this is gonna sound so silly and stupid, but I instinctively, I was like, I believe in love.

A (34:12)

That's so Nicky. That's very Nicky. Very Nicky.

B (34:19)

But it's true. But I guess tying that into what you were saying, where it's just like, I don't get scared making this show just because when you feel like you have the power of love, nothing can hurt you.

E (34:32)

Oh, my God.

A (34:35)

She's saying this laughing, but I know that she means this completely sincerely.

B (34:38)

I'm 100% serious.

A (34:40)

I know. When you told this to him, did you, like, immediately walk away and a cool breeze blew through the venue? Because that's how I imagine it playing.

B (34:50)

He just started laughing, and so did Saba. But, like, Saba knows I'm serious too. Like, Saba knows.

A (34:57)

Nikki's the most sincere person I've ever met. I think I can say that with complete confidence.

E (35:02)

I get this question all the time. Like what? Like, after you tell people what your job is and they say, okay, so, like, do you believe in that? And, like, truly, deep down, like, I mean, I. The answer is no. And that's why I feel protected, which is crazy to, like, admit, but it's like, I don't believe in any. Anything, even love.

A (35:26)

You don't believe in love, Haley?

E (35:32)

But no, I don't believe in any of the. Like, I. I actually am not convinced, like, in any way. Like, there's no. The reason I don't get scared is because, like, truly, I do not believe, which is crazy, because this is my job and I enjoy it and I love it, but, like, deep down, I can't be scared of it.

A (35:51)

Is that a defense mechanism?

E (35:53)

No.

A (35:54)

I also Think that's funny because you of all people on the show actively want to experience something the most.

E (35:59)

Yeah, because I would love to not feel, to like, to believe.

B (36:04)

I guess, like, for me, experiencing the paranormal doesn't need to be a scary thing. But, I mean, have you ever, like, experienced a moment of just, like, awe or, like, ecstasy? Like, that, to me, is also just as miraculous. Does that make sense?

E (36:19)

But it's not like if I'm looking at a waterfall and I'm like, holy shit, this is amazing. It's not paranormal. My amazement is not paranormal.

A (36:27)

It is to Nikki. That's what you don't understand. That's what you don't understand about her.

E (36:33)

Right. I think, to me, the fact that it's not paranormal or like, that it is just, like, part of the earth is part of what makes it so. Oh, my God. Okay, this got.

A (36:42)

No, this is great. I think this is great. And you know what? If there's one thing I've learned about making the show is I realize, like, this sounds corny, but everybody is so different. You two are a perfect example of it. And as much as I could put myself in somebody's shoes, like, you really have no idea what it's like to be another person and how they view the world. So it's like, I guess I've been humbled in that regard where it's like, yeah, you. You just don't know any everything. You can't know everything.

E (37:07)

I would love to live in. I would love to live in Nikki's mind and body for, like, a week.

A (37:13)

Oh, it'd be crazy.

E (37:14)

I would love to swap.

A (37:16)

It would be crazy.

B (37:17)

But we're all one.

C (37:19)

We should make this spectrum of. Do you get scared by the show? Do you believe in love? As, like,

E (37:30)

Bonus episode? Do you believe in love?

A (37:34)

All right, well, I think that brings us to the end of this one, guys. Thank you so much for joining me. Shout out to a 24. And of course, shout out to the movie Undertone, which is in theaters now on Friday the 13th. Actually, go check it out. It's in theaters. This is a movie that I recommend seeing in theaters for. Sure. The sound design, yeah, it's like a pretty much audio. Audio based movie. So make sure you see this with a really good sound system. Thank you for joining me, guys. And of course, thank you for listening.

C (38:06)

Bye.

E (38:06)

Bye.

D (38:07)

Bye.

B (38:07)

Bye,

E (38:21)

Sam.