Lucy (2:54)

If it takes them a minute.

Paige Desorbo (3:23)

Hi, I'm Lucy. I live in the southeast of the United States. I'm 35. I work in the service industry, and I have for 16 years. I work at a really nice, fun and funky, eclectic restaurant that has been such a blessing in my life. My bosses are great. I'm literally, you know, living in their house right now. And, yeah, I love everything from hiking to writing to reading. I obviously consume a lot of podcasts, and I had been wanting to share this story for a really long time, but none of the other podcasts ever felt quite right. So Until I was 11, I grew up on a little island along a river. It literally was just big enough to have a neighborhood, so it was really safe. I grew up without squirrels, which in retrospect, is pretty hilarious. I was very lucky because it was so safe that we were all able to ride our bikes constantly. It was very flat. Like, Even at age 3, I was allowed to be outside by myself riding my bike. And I had a difficult childhood. It was not easy. My family's kind of like a sociological experiment is what my siblings and I joke about, because we're all so far apart in age. I mean, the eldest is Gen X, and then the youngest is Gen Z. And then we have a brother who is seven years older than me, and then I have another brother who is seven years younger than me. My mom calls it the seven year itch. That dynamic alone is very interesting. And we're. We're not. A lot of people think like, oh, well, that's typical because they remarry and have step sisters. No, like, my. My siblings were full. Had the same exact parents. And it's like we've experienced our parents through different generations, and that creates an interesting dynamic as well. My mom was not a great mom. She was very difficult and not very affectionate. My dad and I actually did have a good relationship when I was young, but he was gone all the time. And then my mom would actively poison that relationship. She would pointedly make stuff up or exaggerate things that I had done while he was gone so that he wouldn't feel as affectionate towards me. Sorry, I feel like I'm in a therapy session right now. It just always felt like she was trying to pin us against each other. And this is something that, after talking to my sister Jennifer, as adults, she has also said is very true. My mom didn't want my dad to love us as much as she Wanted him to love her. When I would reach for her hand to hold it, she would pull it away. Yeah, I mean, we were beaten physically. I had to pick out my switch from the yard. There was a fiberglass rod from a tent that she used to hit us with one time. This is probably. This is like the silliest one that you can include that isn't so dark. But I was a dancer. I did competitive dancing as a child. And one of the girls lived on the same. Like in the same neighborhood as us. And we were driving by her house and my mom was like, wow, she's so beautiful. And I went, mommy, am I beautiful? And she went, no, honey, you're just cute. Yeah. So for a long time I hated the word cute. And it's just things like that that, you know, just start to, like, wiggle into yourself, your subconscious and your self confidence and just siphon it away. Because if your own mother is telling you, no, you're not beautiful, you're just cute, it starts to really wear away at your soul. I think we each with our own personalities, handled our parents very differently. But specifically my mom, my sister was always dating somebody to get out of the house and be away. My older brother was always just out of the house with friends or he would. He was the golden child. So he got away with a lot, but also had a lot of pressure put on him that I've now understood now looking back. And then I was the one that pushed back really hard and called out the bullshit. I'm the one that was like, we're all just gonna pretend that what mom just said isn't ridiculous or awful. Like, is nobody else going to point out the fact that she just said something so mean? Like, the truth is, the meanest things that anybody has said to me in my entire life have come out of my mom's mouth. Like, I grew up with alligators and turtles and otters. Turtles would lay eggs in our yard all the time. So I grew up having lots of baby pet turtles that my mom would then return to the river. My mom is very good with animals. She's exceptionally good with animals. I think it's the only. Sorry. Not human animals. Yeah, no. Things that can't talk back. She loves. So both my parents worked. I was actually. I don't know if we want to talk about this because this would be very refres. Feeling of where I'm from, but I was raised by a Gullah woman. And Gullah is like the Geechee culture. It's like an African tribe that was able to maintain its identity through slavery. She was my nanny and would take care of me and was probably the only reason I felt love as a child. I mean, she really loved me. Like, she was extremely affectionate. She would cuddle me. You know, she would watch her soap operas. So I would watch Days of Our Lives with her, and we would just hang out. And I just felt very comfortable with her to the point that I would beg her to take me with her when she would leave. And I think it's also important to understand that I still wanted my mom like I wanted my mom to be my mom. I would cry when she would leave, but it was like I was homesick for a home that didn't exist. But that's how I felt my whole life. And I think that that's the wound that I'm just now kind of healing. So. When I was little, these were my earliest memories. I would play with this girl named Lauren, and she was my best friend. I. I can't imagine not having had her in my childhood. I mean, we would play together all day. We would play in the backyard. We rode our bikes together on the island all the time. And we would just be chatting the whole time. We would play in the sandbox. We'd swing together, play. My dad had built, like, a really cool tree fort, and we would hang out in there. And I had a carousel horse that my grandmother made and painted that was set on springs. And I would bounce on that thing and just talk to her, talk to Lauren and play with her the whole time. We would play in my room. We would listen to music together, and then we'd have sleepovers. Lauren seemed to be my age. She had short brown hair, had slight freckling, vaguely, and green eyes. She was very funny. She was really funny. And she was very silly and allowed me. I was kind of a serious kid in some ways. And so I think having her to play with allowed me to be silly. And my siblings are so much older than me that I think I would have felt very alone if I hadn't had her. She reassured me. She validated me. Being the daughter of my mom was very invalidating to my existence at times. And so I felt like my existence was enough because of Lauren. She was just my constant companion, you know, I remember just. It was like I was processing life with her. So one day when I was around four, I was doing the typical thing that I would do with her, which I was riding my bike, and we were outside, and it was a beautiful day. I was having A great time. And she asked me to do her a favor. And that was not typical. Normally it was just me and Lauren having fun and playing games. And I was like, a favor. What do you want me to do? And she was like, I need. It's really important. I need you to tell Jennifer that it's not her fault. And I was really confused by this. And also my immediate response was not only did I not want to stop what I was doing, but I also did not want to bother my older sister again. Jennifer is 13 years older than me, so she's like, 17. She doesn't want her little sister going and bothering her. And so I was like, you know, no, I'm good. And she goes, lucy, this is really important. She was really, really insistent. And I don't remember her ever being that insistent about something before. So I relented pretty quickly because again, she was my. She was my best friend. So I was like, okay, okay. So, yeah, I put down my bike, which I'm sure still had training wheels on it. So I don't even know that I put it down or that I got off my bike. And I walk inside the garage through the garage door, and my sister Jennifer lived in the room above the garage. So I go to go towards her, and then she's actually sitting at the top of the steps. I can still see her. And she's tying up her tennis shoes. Yeah. So Lauren is, you know, right there being, like, still telling me, like, it's really important. And I'm like, okay, okay. Like, I'm doing it. And so I see Jennifer at the top of the stairs. And I said, jennifer. And of course, she doesn't even look up because I'm her little sister. So I say her name again, and she. Without even looking up, she goes, what, Lucy? And I go, lauren told me to tell you it's not your fault. And her head whipped up. She was like, who? What did you just say? And I said, lauren told me to tell you it's not your fault. And I remember she looked at me like she was trying to understand. Like, she kind of, like, cocked her head for a second, like she couldn't believe it. Like, her face was extremely shocked. And I was just like, I don't know. I'm just the messenger. Like, I don't know what I'm saying. I don't know what it means. I just know that I have to say this as soon as I said it to Jennifer the second time. I remember looking to Lauren and being like, there. I did it. Are you happy? Because I didn't understand what I was saying. I just knew I was doing a favor that had interrupted our playtime. But as soon as I finished saying it the second time, when I said, Lauren told me to tell you it's not your fault, Jennifer burst into tears. It was. It was probably the hardest I had ever seen her cry. And my mom, who must have been Lysann from the kitchen, which is just the other side of that wall, my mom comes and wrenches my arm and she says, who told you to say that? And I said, lauren. And she went, lucy, who told you to say that? And she seemed angry, which at the time, for a long time I thought I misremembered that because I was like, why would she be angry? She seemed sad, but also angry. And I was honestly mad at Lauren because what just happened? We were having this great time, riding my bike outside, and then she asked me for a favor. And then the favor made both my sister and my mom cry and my mom mad at me. And I got sent to my room and I was so confused. So I was in my bedroom. But I remember hearing Jennifer and our mom fighting. Yeah, Lauren was in the room with me, and I was really upset. I felt like I had gotten in trouble for doing her a favor. But I remember her reassuring me and kind of telling me that I may not understand now, but I would understand later. You know, eventually things kind of went back to normal. We had dinner, and that was that.

Jack Wagner (17:32)

All right, we'll be right back after this quick break.

Lucy (17:43)

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Jill (18:52)

Went down at the Viper Room the night River Phoenix died? Or how about the mysterious death of Britney Murphy? Are you aware of how Steve McQueen escaped murder at the hands of the Manson family? The obsessive killing of Dorothy Stratton? The real life murder that inspired David Lynch's 20 Twin Peaks? The three conspiracies surrounding Marilyn Monroe's death? These stories and more are told in the new podcast Hollywoodland, where true crime and Tinseltown collide. Hollywoodland is hosted by me, Jake Brennan, creator of the award winning music and true crime podcast Disgraceland. Follow and listen to Hollywoodland wherever you get your podcasts. If you don't know about Flyer deals on Instacart, this message is for you. Flyer deals are like strolling through your favorite store looking for deals, but you're scrolling your phone and maybe you're in bed because getting delivery doesn't mean you have to miss deals like you get at the store. Like the one creamer that doesn't make your stomach hurt, or the pasta sauce you can't not buy when it's on sale. So download the Instacart app, shop flyers and never miss a deal on one of your favorites. Plus, get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes. Nordstrom brings you the season's most wanted brands, Skims, Mango Free People and Princess polly, all under $100. From trending Sneakers to beauty must haves, we've curated the styles you'll wear on repeat this spring.

Paige Desorbo (20:15)

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Jill (20:17)

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Paige Desorbo (20:24)

I was never really a runner. The way I see running is a gift, especially when you have stage four cancer. I'm Ann. I'm running the Boston Marathon presented by bank of America. I run for Dana Farber Cancer Institute to give people like me a chance to thrive in life, even with cancer.

Jill (20:43)

Join bank of America in helping Anne's cause. Give if you can@b of a.com supportann what would you like the power to do? References to charitable organizations is not endorsement by bank of America Corporation Copyright 2025.

Paige Desorbo (21:04)

I remember my mom definitely kind of treating me slightly differently and paying attention more maybe. And then one day she takes us on a road trip like three hours away. And she takes me to a graveyard. And in this graveyard are a lot of my ancestors that have been buried, you know, back to the 1700s. And she takes me to this, the tiniest little grave in this plot. And there's a little lamb that Sits on top and it says, Lauren, daughter of my parents names. And then the birth and the death date are the exact same date. And it's from the early 80s. She says to me, then, you know that little girl that you talked to? And I said, yes, Lauren. And she said, yes, I think that Lauren is my other little girl that died before you were born. I don't remember the exact reaction, but I do kind of remember it just clicking into place that Lauren wasn't just my friend, but my sister. And, you know, kids are pretty easy to appeal to with this. I think I just accepted it very readily. But I do remember there being like a morbid element to me of like, I felt uncomfortable being by her grave. But my mom was deeply emotional. It was a very emotional moment for my mom. And I think maybe that also made me uncomfortable where I was scared of like. Because, you know, having dealt with her emotional tirades, her being really emotional could be a very negative thing. So my mom said that when she was pregnant with Lauren, that she went to give birth to Lauren, there were complications. Her umbilical cord was wrapped around her throat and she suffocated and died. She was born, but due to the brain damage and the suffocation that had happened, she died a few hours after being born. And it was obviously extremely traumatic. You know, you give birth full term to a baby and then to have it die while you're giving birth is really hard. Especially because for my family, even though there are five of us, including Lauren, Lauren was the only one my parents actually tried to have that was the only planned child that they had, and she died. So while, yes, my little kid brain was not that shocked, I do think it's important to note I had no idea that I had another sister. She was not discussed. It was obviously an extremely traumatic thing for my family. And they. My family suppresses. So it was very much a shock to learn that I did have another sister. And potentially the friend I was talking to was my sister, if that makes sense. I think when my mom took me to the grave, I was kind of confused because, you know, she's like, I think that that's your s. I think it's your sister that you're talking to. Part of me was like, oh, okay, that makes sense. But also I was confused that she was saying that her body was in the ground. I do remember feeling that way, that it was probably my first real introduction to what death was, now that I think about it. And yes, like, she was my sister. That part was very Easy to accept. The confusing part for my four year old brain was that her body was in the ground and that she died as a baby because she wasn't appearing to me as a baby, obviously. So it felt confusing. But also I accepted it pretty easily and from that point on I just always thought of her as my sister. So after visiting Lauren's grave, everything still was the same. I still saw Lauren, she was still my best friend. I just kind of had a renewed appreciation for her. Yeah. And then after that it was back to business as usual. Lauren was still there all the time, hanging out with me, playing with me. And it made sense that she didn't go anywhere at night, that she was always with me and that she wasn't at school, that she was always with me. Nobody else could talk to her. So that finally made sense. I mean, I always just assumed that, you know, my siblings were all dealing with our trauma in their own way, which was mainly not paying attention to me. And my dad was always gone for work so it wasn't really a shocker that they weren't interacting with Lauren as well. Lauren didn't look like a ghost, what most people would assume a ghost looked like. She look to me like a normal girl and she, she wasn't see through. She. I don't remember specifics about clothing, but I do remember her hair and her hair being a short bob that was brown and I remember her eyes, I remember what she looks like. I don't remember if she could play with toys, but I feel like, I feel like maybe I can see the fact that she was there and we're playing in my bedroom. Like I can still see my childhood bedroom but I don't remember if she would like, if she would move the dolls while we're playing or move the stuffed animals while we're playing. I do remember her looking the same age as me. She reflected whatever age I was at. I, I don't remember if Lauren and I ever broached the fact that she was my dead sister. But I do remember her just intense protective energy. And the energy did feel like intense sisterhood. My mom has seen a little girl with me when I was young. She saw a little girl with short brown hair multiple times. And then she had told my dad and my dad didn't believe her because my dad, my dad likes spiritual spooky stuff, but he's very much a skeptic. It's more like entertainment for him. And he didn't believe her at all. But then one day he came home and he Said, what friend? What friend does Lucy have over? And my mom says she doesn't have a friend over. What did you see? And my dad was like, what are you talking about? Like, stop. You know, don't. Don't do this to me. And she was like, no, she doesn't have a friend over. Did you see a little girl with short brown hair? And that's exactly what my dad had seen. So it wasn't just like me seeing her. It was also my parents. The older I got and the more, I guess I like, leaned into my left brain. I don't know, like. And the more, like, I got connected to the outside world, you know, and had other friends, the less I felt like she showed up. I feel like she showed up less and less. But I still remember talking to her a lot because I would do the same thing where I would close my door and just play and talk to her and I would ride my bike. And now I was old enough that I could go all the way around the island, so I would talk to her a lot while I was going all the way around the island. So I remember continuing to talk to her till I was around 10. I don't remember the last time I saw her. This is a great pain of mine because I wish I could. I do feel that she said goodbye to me, but I can't recall that specific memory. I remember being really sad because I couldn't talk to her anymore. And I was so sad that I wrote a poem about it. And I gave that poem to my mom for Mother's Day about how much I miss Lauren and that I wished that I could connect with her. I still remember part of it. If only I could tell you. If only you could see. If only you were here and were standing next to me. I would tell you that I loved you and that I always cared that you were always with me, especially when I was scared. And there's like at least three more verses that's like. I remember saying, she's behind like an angel guarded door or something. It's very saccharine. But I was 11, okay? So around this time, I am 10ish. My sister is 23, and she is really making an effort to connect with me. And I think, you know, she was finally somewhat successful in her life. She was in nursing school. And she really. She did everything she could to kind of protect me from our mom so that I didn't have to undergo the extent of the damage that mom had done to her. But, you know, she was just a child. Trying to survive when we were kids too. So I don't hold this against her whatsoever. But she would come and get me for the weekend, I would go and stay with her. It felt really special. I felt really, really special to be able to do that with her. And then after I had given my mom the poem about Lauren, Jennifer and I were in the car together and we're talking about the poem and she's like, do you remember what you said to me when you were a little girl? And I was like, yes, I do. And she was like, do you know why I got so upset? And I was like no. And she said it's because mom blamed me for Lauren's death. When I prayed or hoped that, you know, she wouldn't have another baby when the baby did die, when Lauren did die, mom was already very mentally unwell. But I think losing Lauren completely just like cracked her open. And she blamed Jennifer for Lauren's death. She blamed a four or five year old little girl and it completely shattered my sister. She said that she just didn't want a sibling. So I mean, I remember when my mom told me that she was pregnant with our little brother, I was also really upset. That is a very typical kid reaction. She said that she doesn't remember specifically quote, praying that the baby would die, but that is what my mom says that she did. Jennifer remembers very distinctly going to check on my mom because she could hear my mom crying and had holed herself up in her bedroom and didn't want to talk to anybody. And she went in to check on her and she opened the door and she said, mama. And my mom was like, are you happy? You got what you wanted, this is all your fault. And I had specifically asked Jennifer, do you remember mom saying it's your fault? And she was like those exact words. Like she said, this is your fault. Because part of me was like, maybe as a child she misunderstood that. But unfortunately it seems that my mom not only blamed her then, but but then continued to blame her for many years. After Jennifer developed severe mental health issues, she started self harming and a teacher noticed it at school and this teacher had self harmed in the same way. So understood immediately what was happening and understood that it was a result of trauma and told my mom, you need to get her into a psychologist asap. And Jennifer remembers my mom just domineering the entire conversation and she was like, what did they think was going to happen? The source of my trauma is the adult that is in the room with me, which I have also experienced this that same self harm I started to do when I was a child and Jennifer stopped me from doing it. Being consistently blamed for your sibling dying, I mean, even if it had been her fault, that's still inappropriate. But to blame a child for just hoping that the baby would die because they don't want a sibling, I mean, I know that's dark, but kids are weird. Kids make stupid decisions and have silly thoughts. So the fact that my mom continued to blame her, she really started to believe that it was her fault. She had this immense guilt that she lived with every day. She. She said that she felt so alone and so lonely her whole childhood. So then, you know, this is 13 years later. Basically, her other little sister comes up to her and tells her that Lauren tells her it's not her fault, that it blew her mind. She was truly. Her first reaction was like, oh, my God. But then her second reaction was fear. She said her immediate reaction was, oh, my God, accept this as the gift it is. And then you have to suppress and move on. Because she was so afraid that my mom would think that she had told me to say that even though I had no idea what I was talking about and that Lauren was just my friend. Her exact words were, accept this as the gift that it is. Because it truly had been weighing on her her whole life. She has said that through me, conveying this message to her, that she was able to really start to forgive herself after that. And that, you know, I think also because of. It wasn't something that was talked about as a family. It was just something that my mom used against her on a personal level. I think it kind of brought this knowledge to the family. I think that alone helped her a lot to be like, okay, this isn't a secret I have to keep anymore. I think for her, it's very comforting now that I not only brought her some peace, but that I can see the level of trauma that my mom imparted onto her. Around the time that I started to lose my connection with Lauren was actually around the time that Jennifer really started making an effort to be a big sister to me. She would take me to the movies, I would get to stay with her. And we grew closer and closer to the point that she asked me to be her maid of honor at her wedding when I was 11. We continued to get closer and to the point that actually when I was 19 and I was going through a really, really difficult time, and my sister actually took me in for a summer and I lived with her. So it was. It was hard because she had kids. She had already kind of moved on in her life, but she was still willing to help me out because she understood how our mom could be. I mean, I. I do think it's important that I did question. For most of my, like, teenage years and early. Early to mid-20s, I was like, did I somehow overhear these conversations taking place? Did I hear my mom blaming Jennifer? And I created this, you know, manifestation of a. Of a child that was her dead child. Did I somehow do this? I mean, I have considered that, but after talking to my sister and my mom about this, they didn't talk about it. It wasn't ever shared because it was such an uncomfortable topic. I still remember seeing this girl my whole childhood and talking to her and her keeping me company. I mean, when I tell you that she was my best friend, she really was. When I was three or four, I didn't need anybody else. I just wanted to hang out with her. It wasn't just me talking to myself. Like, I heard another voice talking to me. I'm not confident on exactly what she was. I don't know that I will ever know in this lifetime. But I do feel like there was a reason that she was there for me and was my best friend. And she brought so much peace to my life and seemingly to my sisters and possibly to my mom. You know, maybe. Although my mom's initial reaction was anger, I think that was because she thought that Jennifer had told me to say that. And then once she realized that that wasn't the case, when she really began to process the fact that I was actually seemingly talking to my dead sister Lauren, I think it brought my mom a lot of peace. I think a lot of moms have a lot of guilt when they lose a baby. They feel like they've done something wrong. So maybe she was projecting onto Jennifer. I think Lauren was with me to bring me comfort while dealing with my mom, and then to also bring Jennifer comfort and release from all of the guilt that she had had for 13 years. And if that's all that came out of this situation, that would be enough. I feel like I had a best friend when I needed it. And I have missed her my whole life since I was 10. I think about her a lot, but I also understand that I don't think I could have been in high school and had been seeing my dead sister and talking to her and could have still lived a normal life. You know, I realized that this is going to paint my mom in a negative light, and. And it is really important to me that people don't harp on that because although it is awful and we experienced a lot of trauma, I am in a place where I am really finding forgiveness for my mom and ultimately just reflecting on the fact that my mom was also going through her own trauma. And people going through trauma do and say weird things. And ultimately I just feel that Lauren came back to stay with me, to help the three of us, my mom, Jennifer and me, find some sort of some sort of peace within ourselves and each other.

Jack Wagner (42:23)

All right, thank you so much to Lucy for sharing her story. This has been episode 118. The title is Lucy and Lauren and you've been listening to Other World. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice, Jackal and North Americans. This episode was edited by myself and engineered by Theo Schaeffer. Our artwork is by Cul de Sac Studios. Nikki Cate Delgado is our Associate Producer, Production help by Hayley Pearson. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five star review and telling your friends about Otherworld. If you want to hear bonus episodes, you can become a patron@patreon.com Otherworld Our social media is TheWorldPod. Thank you to the team at Odysee. JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman, Leah Rhys, Dennis, Rob Morandi, Eric Donnelly, Matt Casey, Maura Curran, Josefina Francis and Hilary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odysee app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know have experienced something paranormal, supernatural or unexplained, you could send us your story@storiesotherworldpod.com.