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- [00:01]
Jack Wagner
This episode is brought to you by State Farm.
- [00:03]
Ryan Vannerd
Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want, like that dream house or ride, is a great feeling. That's why the State Farm personal price plan can help you save when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing Mint Mobile unlimited premium wireless.
- [00:40]
Jack Wagner
30, 30.
- [00:41]
Ryan Vannerd
Better get 30. Better to get 20. 20, 20. Get 20, 20.
- [00:43]
Jack Wagner
Everybody get 15.
- [00:44]
Ryan Vannerd
15.
- [00:44]
Jack Wagner
15, 15.
- [00:45]
Ryan Vannerd
Just 15 bucks a month. Sold. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch.
- [00:50]
Jack Wagner
Upfront payment of $45 for three month.
- [00:51]
Ryan Vannerd
Plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow.
- [00:54]
Jack Wagner
After 35 gigabytes of network's busy taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com foreign welcome to other World. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. The story you're about to hear comes from a guy named Ryan. Ryan spent most of his career in production working on all sorts of different projects, wearing many different hats. And this experience begins when Ryan decided that it's finally time to go for it and work on a project that is truly his own, something that he's actually passionate about. And this decision ends up taking him on a very crazy adventure, one that almost cost him his life. This is an incredible story. It captures the bizarre and fascinating realities of modern warfare. And it's really more of a story of survival than it is just about the paranormal. But it gets into the strange stuff that happens to people when they're put in these types of life or death situations, and how the lines between reality and the otherworldly can really start to blur. I love this episode, and I think you will too. This is episode 128. The title is Patience, and you're listening to Otherworld.
- [02:24]
Ryan Vannerd
Hello, is this Bobby? Yes, it is.
- [02:26]
Jack Wagner
At its core, the science you can't argue with.
- [02:29]
Ryan Vannerd
I'm so worried about all of a sudden up in the sky. It's almost frustrating that it's happening. I'm gonna die. Its limbs were just like, wrong. Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them a minute. My name is Ryan Vannerd. I am a filmmaker living in Los Angeles. I am a fairly fresh 43 years old. I've done many things in my career. I've built sets. I was a sound mixer, director of photography for like really terrible, terrible TV shows. Like reality TV stuff. Yeah. And lately work has sucked, the industry has sucked. And so I kind of just have taken this time to do what I've always wanted to do, to really do, which is documentary filmmaking. It's my main passion. It's why I got into this in the first place. And so that is, that's what I'm trying to do mainly now. Production is an interesting world to work in because there's so much like passion involved and I feel like sometimes it's almost used against you. Like, you know, you're working on like the movie and everyone's like, oh, this is like, this is such a creative vision. And we're working, you know, 20 hours a day and no sleep and for no money. And then, you know, after a certain amount of time that kind of does get old, especially if it's not your creative vision. So I found reality TV. It was kind of almost like a more normal 9 to 5 job, at least as close as you can get in the production world. And so I, without saying the shows in particular, just say there was several hip hop themed shows and tattoo focused shows that I worked on, even like a cupcake show or two, I think. I mean, I did so many of these silly things, you know, and I mean, super fun to make love. The people, the crews are the best, but the end product is not something I've ever been proud of. And I remember specifically one instance when I was at the ASC clubhouse, which is like the American Society for Cinematographers. They have like this clubhouse in Hollywood. And I was there with like some other crew members and like kind of schmoozing and there was like, you know, huge cinematographers kind of holding courts. And I'm there, I'm talking to a producer. I remember distinctly having this like wonderful conversation about a variety of things and then him just kind of like bluntly asking like, what, what I was working on. And I, I said the name of the show. He's like, oh, like reality tv. I was like, yeah, kind of laughed and he just like walked away. He's just like straight just walked away. Like it was like not even like, not even like a funny or not even like a segue or not even like some like, oh, hey, I've got to like make an excuse to leave. It's just like, no, just like, you are dead to me. I'm walking Away that. Yeah, that made me feel some kind of way for a while. I had a belief that if I just did my best, that then it would kind of somehow magically lead me out of this world. And that somehow I would wake up and I would be doing some feature film or something. Right. But it doesn't work that way. And I kind of realized, like, the more of these things I did, it just kind of, like, locked me into that was all I would do. It's like a year goes by, two years, three years, four years, five years. I'm just like, I'm never getting out of this. I felt like I had to take desperate measures. And I realized, like, I just had to do my own thing. I had to try. So in 2022, Russia invades Ukraine. And I had been watching this because my job at the time we were supposed to go to Ukraine, and I was telling my colleague, I was like, well, I don't know. It seems like Russia is about to invade. And she, being from the region, is like, well, Russia's always about to invade. And I'm like, okay. And then when they go in, I was just like. I was just, like, glued to these images. I mean, it was just like. I couldn't believe it. It was just, like, shocking. I was just, like, watching it. I remember, like, just like, the live camera from Kyiv, just, like, watching. Just, like, leaving that on. I should also add that my sister had several children from Ukraine living with her. This goes back to, like, after 2014, when actually this. This war really began. But she had kids from the far east of Ukraine that had come over, and so she was, like, fostering them. So again, there was kind of a connection in that way. So I was, you know, Ukraine was, like, in my mind. So I wanted to help out. I wanted to be helpful. And I knew people from the region. I met them through a colleague. And she was working for this humanitarian organization called Ukraine Trust Chain. And she mentioned that I could help edit some videos for their social media. So I just started doing that. And then through that, I kind of got to know some of the main people in the organization. And I got to know the founder of the organization, whose name is Daniel. And I realized, like, he's just like an artist, like, first and foremost, really. I mean, he. He is a clown. He is a performance artist. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of, like, Soviet, like, folk songs. He plays the hell out of an accordion. So I. You know, I was editing this stuff, and then, like, so my colleague that was working There she is a producer. I met her working in reality tv. And so naturally we, in very early days started talking about doing a documentary. I just assumed that this would be like a fundraising thing for the organization. But then I had a meeting, my first meeting with the founder, Daniel. At that point, I was just like, okay, this is just like, this is just. I have to do this, you know, no matter what it takes, I have to do this. It's just like. It was like I wanted to do this project, like, so bad. Like, it felt amazing. He was an amazing character. This is just such. I mean, this situation, it's a war. I mean, it's like as high stakes as it get. It was like, this is the story that I want to be telling. But I didn't feel like at the timing was it just didn't work because I. I had a good job. I had a girl that I thought I was going to marry, and I did not feel I could go to a war zone. You know, I didn't feel like it was fair to her for me to put myself in such danger. But, you know, fast forward. I don't know, a few months, I get laid off, Then I break up with my girlfriend, or she breaks up with me, breaks my heart completely. I was like, you know, I was like, shopping for rings. It was like that. And the first thing I did, and that's like, now we're in 2024. And I call him up, I'm like, hey, man, are you going to Ukraine? And he's like, you know what? I just bought my ticket. And so I just bought my ticket. Just then I was like, okay, I'm going to meet you in Chicago and we'll go together. And I bought my ticket. And that was it. Didn't really think about it. I just. It was just like, boom, okay, this is meant to be, like, perfect timing, but then you buy the ticket and things change. And I even remember on the. On the flight over, I had like a little panic attack. I just felt like I. The momentum of all of this had swept me up and that I wasn't thinking clearly, perhaps, and that I was just like, going forward. And I just. I'm in the plane headed over and I just like these kind of intrusive thoughts of like, I don't know, like, death, like, just. Just what my. What people will people have to deal with? Like, my shit, like, if I die, Like, I don't know, just like all these, like, things you don't necessarily want to think about. But the interesting thing and this has happened every time, and I. I know it'll happen this time, too. But the second you get into the country, everything changes. Your brain has a way of protecting you. And it's like the closer you are to danger, you just know, like, you. You can't be, like, so, like, paralyzed with things. You just have to, like, go for it. And you just kind of. Your brain just kind of keeps it off to the side. Like, you. The air alarm. I remember the first time you hear, like, the air alarm go off. I mean, it's a crazy sound I recorded on my phone. The sound of it, it's just, like, so eerie. And you kind of look around and no one is really reacting to it because, I mean, they live there and they hear that shit every day. And so you kind of just like, you're looking around. I remember I was in a park when I first heard it, and I'm looking around and no one's reacting. You know, couples are walking hand in hand, but no one seems to care. Everyone's just, like, talking. There's, like, kids running around. And, yeah, there's like, this alert going on. And, you know, that alert means that probably a missile or a drone or something will hit the city and potentially someone will random. Will die. Every time you hear that sound, it's just mad that that's happening in this world, like, every day over. So, like, I'm in, you know, Ukraine, but, like, you're in, like, Odessa, and it's just like a normal city. And there's, like, cafes and restaurants that open, and people are walking their dogs. And you're like. You don't really feel the war. Like, I don't speak any Ukrainian. I don't speak Russian, so I'm kind of just there. It was my whole. My experiment was that me not speaking the language would work to my benefit because then people would just, like, not know what to do with me, and I would just, like, literally be a fly on the wall. Like, obviously, like, Daniel had, like, his whole itinerary, and it was a lot of meetings, and it wasn't necessarily the most, like, visually appealing stuff for me. So at a certain point, I had the option to go with this evacuation team into Donetsk. Now, Daniel wasn't going to go on this trip because it was like he was not going to go there. It was like we were going to Turetsk. This was in late June of 2024. The Russians had just advanced on the city, and so we were evacuating people on the outskirts of Turetsk. It's a mining city out in Donbass. So, yeah, my first taste of the war was this side trip. I went, and this is, like, right on the edge. It was, like, kind of almost gray zone. So this is disputed territory. The way it works is, like, you come in with these vans. You know, you put on your gear, like Kevlar vests, helmets, et cetera. You have to go through checkpoints, and you start to hear the war. It felt to me like I was, like, by, like this massive wave. I could hear it, but I couldn't see it. We were, like, safe enough. You know, we're not in armored cars. And so then the military police and some other people were going in these armored vehicles, like, into the city proper and were bringing people out to us. And I just remember kind of, like, being there, and there were some other, like, photographers and people that were, like, going, like, in the armored cars. And I. A part of me was just kind of like, I am curious. I can hear the war, but I can't see it. You know, I see smoke on the horizon, and you feel the power of it, and you just feel the energy of it. And I was, admittedly, I was curious to see it. So I knew that, like, the next time, because I knew I would go back. I knew that the next time I would go to Ukraine, I would need to get closer. And the next time I went, I was by myself. So very different, very different feel. I was by myself, and I was there for much longer. You know, I think I was there about a month on this next trip, I was, like, nervous. Like, I didn't know how people were gonna receive me, but everyone was super cool. I made friends, and I was doing it. I was, like, making it happen. Cause up until that point, it was like, yeah, I went on this trip with this guy. It was all taken care of for me, but, like, I wasn't really doing it. Like, I was filming stuff, but I wasn't really, like, doing it. Like, this trip. Like, I was like, can I do this? And I was like, yes, I am doing this somehow. And it was literally, like, the last day of the trip. I am in the city of Dnipro, which is in the east. It's kind of like a central hub on anything going to Donetsk is kind of coming out of Dnipro again. I am with the same evacuation team who, by the way, call themselves Dobra Sprava, which basically translates to good deeds or good work. So that's the name of their organization. And they are partnered with my friend Daniel's organization, Ukraine trust chain, and they have evacuated like over 50,000 people from frontline regions. So these are pros. These guys go in every day. They're super cool. And I filmed we do one evacuation. It was very chill. We went and picked up this family. We got a flat tire. That was about the worst thing that happened. And we came back. But then the main coordinator, her name is Alina, she kind of alluded to the next day being a spicy mission, which I'm just like, okay, like cool, you know, I don't know what that means, but there was a lot of foreshadowing. I know this now because I've translated the footage, but like, I don't understand, you know, they're speaking in Russian mainly, or Ukrainian. And now I know what they're saying, but I didn't know it then because they kind of like had a feeling almost like something might happen. But like every day when you go on these things, the curfew lifts at 5:00am so you're at the door at 5:01, you know, it's still dark. Sasha, one of the drivers comes by, picks me up in the bus and, you know, we head out to Donetsk, which is, you know, it's a good four hours sometimes to get out there. You know, there's a bit of a ritual at this point. I've done it like maybe four times, so I'm kind of feeling like a pro a bit. You get the coffee, like, you get like this, like the Ukrainian, like the gas station hot dog, which is a bit of a specialty over there. I know where we're stopping, I know what we're doing. I feel pretty comfortable. We get closer and it quickly becomes apparent to me that this is not, this is not like the usual trip. You go through a lot of checkpoints as you get closer and at a certain point there's no one at the checkpoint. At a certain point there's just like, there's cars that have been blown up just on the road outside the checkpoint. And it's pretty fresh looking. You know, I noticed distinctly seeing like red shirts covering mailboxes are displayed. But I was kind of like, huh, is this like some kind of like symbol or something? You know, are the Russians here? I guess what had happened and I know it now. There's an app called Deep State. Not to be confused with our so called Deep State, but that's the name of the app. And it basically shows you like the front line and it updates it, you know, continuously. It's like pretty up to Date. What had happened was, in the night, the Russians had pushed in this, like, one section. They kind of, like, broke through the line. And it just so happened that where we were trying to get to, they kind of, like, had crossed that. So when we came into the town, we found, like, there was, like, obstacles in the road. Like, we were, like, quickly cut off. We couldn't go the normal way. We start going now down a dirt road. We put on our protective gear, and at that point, I hit record. And I continuously recorded for, like, you know, the next 30, 40 minutes. I can feel the energy from Sasha. And the other gentleman's name is Slava. They're very tense. We start going down this dirt road. I see there's, like, barbed wire kind of on the side. We pass a tank that has been burnt out, looked fairly fresh. And as soon as we kind of pass this tank, we get to, like, the T. This dirt road comes up to another road, and we could go left or right, and there's kind of, like, a wider area, I think. I feel like Sasha was maybe trying to turn the bus around or there was some disagreement as to where they were going. And he's turning around the truck, and this shell just comes in, and there's an explosion right outside the building. And I'm just like, holy fuck. But at the same time, I'm, like, filming. So it's like part of me is like, holy fuck. And part of me is like, okay. Like, is it in focus? You know, it sounded very, like, sharp. It sounded like a crack. Almost like the crack of, like, a whip or something, you know, it's not like it. You would imagine it's like the movies kind of make it sound where it has more of, like, a bass element. It was very, like, metallic. It doesn't, like, explode, like, you would think. Like, there's not like these fireballs. Like, it's just like gray smoke with this pop. And you smell. You smell it. You know, it's like a firework. It's like gunpowder. Like, it's a very familiar smell. It's just kind of like a lot of things I've experienced with the war. It's not, like, flashy. It's just very, like, cold and metallic and deadly. And just everything at that point happened so, so quickly. Like, my. My phone was still, you know, in the van. All my shit's in the van. And they're. They're just, like, running. They're already running, and so I'm just running after them. I leave everything behind. I think part of Me thought maybe I would be able to come back to grab it, but I don't know. I'm just like, they're running. I'm running after them. And so, just to explain the geography a little bit, it's all dirt. It's pretty open. Ahead of us is like a little strip of trees, the kind that you would find in between two fields. Like, in between two farm fields, you know, to separate them. And to the left, it just looks like no man's land, you know, it's just all fucking chewed up, and there's trenches off to the distance. I see kind of the glint of barbed wire. There's, like, kind of shit all over. There's, like, a tank. You know, it's like, we're in. We're in, like, the middle of, like, the war. So they open the doors, and I'm just, like, running after them. And we. We go into the woods just a little bit. We're just kind of, like, on the edge of the woods, and it's just, like, quiet. And I'm just, like, focused on covering the scene, I guess, just focused on kind of, like, doing my job. And I could just see the way that they were. I mean, Sasha's like. He's shaking, you know, and it just, like. It's just quiet, and they're talking to each other a little bit. And then that's when I heard the first shell. I heard the whistle of it coming at us. And I. You know, I have it recorded. I have this footage, but the audio does not do that justice. It just doesn't, because you can hear it for, like, way too long. There is nothing more terrifying than that sound because you have a lot of time to think about it, and all you can do is get. Get down. And at this point, they're. They're aiming at the bus again, but after about three shots, they started aiming at us. Yeah, I mean, I guess, like, I kind of got what I asked for, you know? Like, I was like. I wanted to get closer. You want to get closer? You do? Like, there's a fascination with this stuff. I mean, like, people used to watch, like, Civil war battles and have picnics on the hill, you know, Like, I mean, there is, like, a. There's a fascination that we have with war. I don't like violence. I'm not. I don't get off on this. I didn't go because I'm like, an adrenaline junkie. But obviously, if you're there, you do want to see it. It's like going to the volcano yeah, you climbed up it. You do want to kind of peek inside. You want to see it. You want to get close to it. And now I am very close. And now I'm like, they're fucking. Like, they're firing at us. And they're firing at us from multiple directions. And now we are like. And again, I don't. You know, they are speaking a different language, but I can understand them perfectly. I needed no translation for any of this stuff. And then when I started hearing the drones, I mean, like, the whistle, like, the worst sound in the world is the whistle of a mortal round fired at you. That's the worst. The second worst thing is these drones, because I have seen far too many videos and I know what these pilots can do. And I've seen plenty of footage of, like, guys going to hide in, like, little sheds and them, like, flying through the window and blowing up the shed, you know, And I'm just like, fuck. You know, like. Like they're everywhere. I can't really see them. I know what a Mavic sounds like. I have one, you know? You know, I know it's like, above us, there's really not a lot of places to hide, you know, but at this point, I'm still thinking, like, maybe, like, we're gonna go back to the van. Like, maybe, like. And we started to kind of make a move to go back to the van. I should also add, I left this out, but they had left cell phones in the van. They could hear them ringing. You can hear it. And when you go to these areas, you're not really. You're not. You're supposed to turn your phone off because, like, any kind of cell phone or any kind of like that, that just shows up, that's like a beacon because everyone is scanning for drones and for, like, these, like, these networks. So it's like a lot of electronic warfare happening out there. So it's kind of like a big. No, no, actually to have your phone on. You're supposed to turn it into airplane mode or just turn it off. But there. There's wasn't. And it's ringing, and obviously they're trying to pick up. Trying to pick people up. So that's why the phone was on. But. But it's ringing in the van, and Sasha goes to run to go back, and he's just like, fuck. Like, it's too scary. Like, I can't go. And Slava is just like. He just goes. And Sasha's just like, oh, what the fuck? What are you doing? What are you doing? And a fucking shell hits so close. I. I would have, like, I would have certainly pissed myself. But he got the stuff. I think maybe he grabbed, like, documents. I don't know if they had, like, their passports or something were, like, in the van. So he grabs all that stuff and makes it back. And this is when I really thought I was going to die. We're in the middle of this, like, little strip of woods, which, again, is probably no more than 50ft wide. And they sent two more shells right on top of us. The second was so close, I was knocked out, basically. It was just like the movie. It was like I could hear nothing except for ringing. There's, like, that. There's, like, a Russian film. Come and see where, like, the kid, like, he gets. There's a shell that and then the rest. Like, he can't hear anything and he's deaf. For the rest of the movie, it was like that. Like, I legitimately thought I might never hear again. So I kind of regained my senses, and I am, like, I'm totally by myself and it's quiet again. So I'm just like. I'm just trying to get away. I'm running. I'm. I'm just running in the opposite direction. I'm just like. I'm. We had been going back towards the bus, and I'm just like, fuck that. I'm going away. Because every time we go back there, we're, like, getting hit. I'm running through the trees now. I'm just, like, in survival mode. And there are drones fucking everywhere. And they see everything. And do they see me? And if they do, like, how much. How long do I have before they come for me? Because you got it. Like, they have fired at this point, I think there's been at least 20 shells fired at us. They're definitely, like, trying hard to kill us. So once I kind of found my spot, I just had to realize that I was by myself, that I did not know if the other two were alive, that I was in a fucking terrible situation, and that unless I figured out a plan, that I would die. Most likely. I quickly determined, like, I was waiting just to hear. I was just listening. All I could do is listen. And I'm just hoping that, like, the drones stop fucking flying over. But they're just like, there's always. Once I was quiet and listening, I was just aware that there was always a drone. I was just like, okay. Like, I'm, like, pinned down in this little strip of woods. There's nowhere to really run to. I'm Like I am just going to stay here until the sun goes down, until it gets dusk. Because I know having a drone myself, the camera is not good in low light. I also know that they have drones with thermal cameras and other capabilities. They have nighttime drones. I'm betting that there is a time when they're kind of switching over to this. And so I figure I'm going to wait till dusk. So maybe it's too bright for like the other drones, but like the daytime drones will have a harder time seeing in detail and that will be the time when I make my move. But unfortunately we got there so early. You know, it's like nine, ten o' clock and I think the sun sets at like five, six. I'm not sure. So I was kind of just like stuck in this spot.
- [32:50]
Jack Wagner
All right, we'll be right back after this quick break. This is NAD by BetterHelp. Workplace stress is now one of the top causes of declining mental health, with 61% of the global workforce experiencing higher than normal levels of stress. To battle stress, most of us can't wave goodbye to work, but we can start small with a focus on wellness. A holiday is great, but it isn't a long term solution to stress. Don't forget that therapy can help you navigate whatever challenges the workday or any day might have. Like, let's say you host some kind of weekly show that's very scary and you'd love to take a break, but you know that the audience would be mad at you if they didn't have a new episode. Sometimes you hypothetically might find yourself in a situation like that where whatever your situation, give BetterHelp a try. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an App store rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on 1.7 million client reviews. It's convenient too. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus, you could switch therapists at any time as as the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Unwind from work with BetterHelp, our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com OtherWorld that's better h e l.
- [34:33]
Ryan Vannerd
P.Com OtherWorld hey, what's up flies? This is David Spade. Dana Carvey. Look at I know we never actually left, but I'll just say it. We are back with another season of Fly on the Wall. Every episode, including ones with guests, will now be on video. Every Thursday, you'll hear us and see us chatting with big name celebrities. And every Monday, you're stuck with just me and Dana. We react to news, what's trending, viral clips follow and listen to Fly on the Wall everywhere you get your podcasts. Shop 4th of July Savings at the Home Depot right now and get up to 40% off, plus up to an extra $600 off select appliances with free delivery like Samsung. From all in one washer dryers to smart refrigerators. Upgrade to tech you can trust with Samsung appliances. The Home Depot has what you need to simplify your routine. Don't miss 4th of July appliance savings at the Home Depot. Free delivery on appliance purchases of $396 or more offer valid June 18 through July 9, US only. See store online for details. Have you ever spotted McDonald's hot crispy fries right as they're being scooped and into the carton? And time just stands still. The summer is heating up with Marvel Studios. The Fantastic Four. Light them up, Johnny. On July 25th. Time to save the planet. What's the plan? Trust me, I hate that. Bad plan. Come on. Terrible. That's a stupid plan. Compare 4 fantastic we will face this together as a family. Marvel Studios the Fantastic Four first steps Only in theaters July 25th.
- [36:15]
Jack Wagner
Made PG 13.
- [36:16]
Ryan Vannerd
Some material may be inappropriate for children under 13. Get tickets now. I started to kind of like dig out this little thing. I was kind of like gathering leaves and dirt. I covered myself as much as I could with dirt and leaves, just hoping that if they had a thermal kind of drone, it would just cut down on my heat signature. I don't know. I was honestly thinking of the movie Predator. I'm like, I love movies, so I'm always thinking about different movies. So I remember that I was like, okay, Arnold covered himself with mud and that works, so I'm at least going to cover myself with dirt. And so I just was scooping out. I had a helmet. I was using that to dig with. I laid down, I took my helmet next to me and I actually used it. I flipped it around and kind of used it as a scoop when I next to my ear. And what that did is it like amplified my hearing for anything that was coming directly overhead. And then I just kind of was staring up at like this little this leaf that was just right in front of my face. And I have to start to kind of say, like, describe, like My state of mind, because in that situation, I was very calm. I was, like, hyper calm. Everything was, like, exaggerated. Like, my hearing was like. It was almost like three dimensional, you know? Like, it was like I could. I was just listening. I was like, okay, there's a big gun. You know, I could see that the sun was coming up, you know, so I'm like, okay, that's east. It's going that way. Okay, so that's west. So I knew north and south. And I was like, the Russians are to the east, Ukraine is to the west. There's a big gun to the east. It's going outgoing. I knew the different sound. I learned all these sounds. I mean, all I could do all day was listen to these sounds. I could tell, okay, that's a Mavic. That's like a reconnaissance drone. Okay? Now this is an FPV drone. They sound different, they fly different. And I could tell, like, the rhythm of that. The rhythm of, like, their patrols going over. I. I could. There was five positions. I had it all. I was mapping it out in my head because the only thing that was up to me to do was know the direction I was gonna run when it was dusk. So I just focused. I was just like, super focused. But, like, even my vision, like, I'm looking at this leaf, and, man, I just stared at this thing all fucking day. Like, I saw. It was like I could see the veins of this leaf. I could see, like, every little. The texture of it, the way the light was coming through and hitting it. I mean, I tried. I rolled on it, you know, I had my camera and I recorded it. But I'm, like, looking at the footage and it's not what I saw, because in that moment, I'm looking at this leaf, and it's just like this fragile thing in no man's land. It was just the way I saw the world. The way I heard it was much different. And being the. You know, I was raised Catholic. You know, I'm not. I wouldn't call myself Catholic anymore. I don't necessarily believe in life after death. I don't. You know, I know that the world is a complex place. We know little of it. I've often looked in my life for things, for signs, and I've never really found anything. You know, like, when I was younger, I was obsessed with ghosts. And I was, like, put out all these traps, trying to, like, prove the existence of ghosts, because if I could prove that, then it would prove there'd be, like, life after death. And so anyway, that's Just to say, like, I was out there and I was. I was praying because, you know, you may as well. I was a Catholic for a while, so it should count for something. I was an altar boy. Like, I should get some kind of, like, something. And so I was praying for anything, for just, like, whatever. I didn't know what to do. It was just like. I was like, holy fuck. Like, I'm just here. Like, how am I here? How am I here? I mean, part of me was just, like, very frustrated to be where I was. I felt, like, claustrophobic, you know, Like, I was, like, in the woods and I. But I couldn't move around. I was scared to move at all, you know, for like 10 hours. Like, I had to piss. And that was like. That took me, like. It took me like an hour to even do that, to even kind of like roll over and crawl and wait every time I heard a drone and not move. So I was definitely praying for guidance. I mean, I wanted to live, you know, and it just, like. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know how I was going to get out of this situation, you know? So, you know, I was doing that. And it's not like I was really getting anything back. But then at some point, I just became aware of a presence. And at first it was alarming. I thought maybe I'd, like, fallen asleep or something. And I just felt this. I was, like, invaded with a foreign presence. And this is something I've never experienced in my life. You know, I've often, like, looked for signs, asked for thing, you know, but this was like. I felt something kind of like, almost like a window has opened up, and there was like a breeze blowing through this window. And it just felt like a. It was like a jolt. It was like kind of like a. It was almost like electric, you know? And I didn't really know what it was or who it was. So this presence had only one message, and it was patience. Over and over, patience, like, as if it was, like, transmitted into my cells, like, through my blood. This was not an internal voice of mine. This was coming. This is coming from a different place. I was just patient. Okay? I'm like, well, I'm like, yes, I. I hear you. I am. I am being patient. I have my plan. I'm not gonna move, you know, I'm just gonna stay. But I didn't. I didn't exactly know what this patience meant. You know, I could only assume. So I'm just trying to, like. I'm like, okay, thank You. Thank you for this. It made me feel better, you know, a little bit. I felt like I wasn't alone, which was, I mean, fucking huge. And at first it was just like a foreign. I didn't know. But then very quickly, I was like, it was my grandfather. It was, like, just absolutely clear that it was my grandfather. And he had fought in World War II in the Pacific theater. He was in Guadala Canal. And he was one of the only people in his platoon to survive, you know, to the day he died. He had shrapnel coming out of his shoulder. I think after going through such hell, he just became. He was, like the softest guy. Before he passed away, he underwent this transformation. We all watched it. He got this smile, and he had this glimmer in his eye that made you think, like, he was. He had one foot kind of in the next world, you know, and whatever he was seeing there, he was bringing back. And it was just, like, infectious. I mean, he had lost so much weight and he was sick, but, like, he was, like, angelic. I don't know. I don't know how else to say it. I mean, my whole family, we just. We would talk about it. I mean, it was. It was obvious. And so that energy was what I recognized. That's what I felt. And it's interesting because my grandmother. When he passed, my grandmother, you know, was still alive for a long time. And she told me a story one time when she, you know, in the early days after she. She was going back home. The home, the house is empty. And all of a sudden he just popped out. And this is in broad daylight. And he's there. He's young, and he's wearing these, like, black and white striped pajamas. And he does this funny little dance with his, like, you know, million dollar smile, even back then. And boop. And he's just. He's gone. And she's telling me about this, almost, like, embarrassed in a way, but just, like, you know, that she had talked to her priest and, like, said it's, like, pretty normal. So anyway, that was. But she couldn't figure out, like, what are the black or white striped pajamas? And it just. She finally put it together that it was like. That was their first Christmas together. They had gotten these matching pajamas or something, you know, so that. That had happened many years before my experience. But, you know, I didn't. I didn't, like, see him or anything like that, but I just. I felt that this is my grandfather. This is unmistakably him. It was. It was emotional. Man, I don't know. I. I cried, you know, I felt a little overwhelmed by it all. It was just like, patience. It was like, not just the word. It was like the idea of patience, like, the idea of, like, really being patient. And I'm kind of like, well, okay, I'm doing that. I mean, like, I'm not. I'm not going anywhere. I kind of, like, I already. You know, I was going to be patient. I was going to wait, you know, I mean, there was a part of me that certainly just wanted to run. You know, you feel claustrophobic. You're just like, fuck it. I'll just, like, run back the way I came or something and at least get away from this. Because it just. It was maddening to just constantly hear these drones hovering right over the tops of the trees, just kind of, like, looking for me. I felt like they're just kind of scanning. I don't know what else they would be doing. And. Yeah, so, like, I had, like, you know, after. In 10 hours, I had, like, weak moments. I had strong moments. And I am as skeptical as anyone about this kind of stuff, but I felt like whatever this was, it was not me. So, like, it didn't, like, last. It wasn't like, with me the whole time. It kind of, like this message kind of broke through, like, almost like a wave, I would say, in that. Like, the first one was stronger, and then it was kind of, like, diminishing, like an echo. And then it kind of just. I was left with this idea, but not the presence, you know, Like, I was still very present, but, like, whatever had come to me was not there anymore. If I had to try to understand it better, like, I felt like there was probably, like. There was like, a door that had just. Just opened the tiniest bit, allowing this to come through. That's the way it felt. That was. I mean, I was thinking. I was, like, trying to think about this. I was like, this is crazy. But I had, like. I had, like, vivid imagery of him. And then this other thing happened that was. I heard this whooshing, like, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. And, you know, I'm listening to all these crazy sounds all around me. I mean, it's all sounds of war. And then there's, like, now this whooshing sound, like, right over the trees. I'm like, what the fuck is this? It completely startled me because there was no, like, shot. There was nothing. It was just like. It sounded like things were just flying by my head. And I see all these black shapes just, like, Going over the trees super fast. It's like this flock of birds. I think they were swallows. They're the ones that kind of look like the. Like, almost a school of fish in the sky. During these, like, patterns, these birds were just, like, flying en masse right through this battle, you know, just, like, freely. Just like. I don't know. Like, are they aware, like, of what's going on? Like, I don't know, but they're just like. And they were loud. Like, how they were flying. Like, that was another moment where I'm just like, okay, Ryan, like, you're gonna get the fuck out of here. You know, you're like, this is not how you're gonna die. Like, you are gonna get out of here. But these are like the little things that happened throughout the day that were just like, that. I really, like. It was very. That was a really important moment for me. So now the sun is going down. It's, like, getting to that point that I've been waiting for. I had hoped throughout the day that things would quiet down and move away, but the whole time the battle was only getting closer. To me, when the sun was going down, like, it seemed like everyone made their move. Cause all hell broke loose. I mean, machine guns, like, you name it. Like, everyone was doing. There's, like, more drones. And I'm just like, okay. Like, it's just not gonna get better. Like, I'm just gonna. I'm gonna go. And I'm not even going to even try to be that sneaky about it. I'm just gonna go for speed, you know? So I get out and I just. I start running through the woods back in the direction that I came from. I was, like, way further away than I had realized. I heard a voice this time, you know, not in my head, but it was actually this little voice, and it was Sasha. And I see Slava Sasha in this, like, basically like a crater and crawled through. I slid down. We're all super happy. They're just like, holy shit. Because they. I mean, obviously they thought I was dead. He was wondering if I had seen anyone, which I hadn't. I could smell cigarettes, so they were close enough for that, but I didn't actually see anyone. Now, this is like the worst part of it all. When it. When initially, when we were under fire, it happened so fast that, like, I honestly didn't. I didn't really even know how to react to that. Like, how do you. What do you do? You just, like, you get. You just throw yourself on the ground, I guess you know, but, like, you're just. I'm filming, and I'm kind of, like, focused on that, and I'm. Now I've just spent, like, the whole day, like, hoping for silence and, like, not to hear the sound of, like, a whistling mortar round coming at me. And then I hear one again coming at us. And my first thought is, I have killed all of us. And that I have not listened to the word patience. Somehow I fucked it up because they saw me come through, and now they know where we're hiding. It was first round, and you just. All you could do is just throw yourself to the ground and you just, like, cover your head and you just. You make yourself as small as you can, and you just hear this terrible rushing sound to meet you. It's the fucking worst thing. You just have. There's just too much time to think about it. Plus, you know, you could set these. These rounds in different ways. There's different. Like, you could set them so they, like, actually explode in the air and they rain the shrapnel down. They say, like, you don't hear the one that. That kills you because you're so in line with it, you don't hear the whistle. I don't know if this is true, but suffice to say the kill range on that is probably 100 meters. And they were like, these things were hitting pretty damn near at the lip of the crater that we're in. And the concussion wave is coming through, and that'll kill you. You don't even have to get hit with shrapnel. Now I am truly panicking. It's one round comes over, second one comes over, third one's even closer, fourth one, fifth one. I'm like, holy fuck. Like, what are they? They just, like, they want to kill us so fucking bad, and it's my fault. And just about everything in me wants to run like I did before. I just want to run. I'm just like, get me the fuck out of here. I just feel like I'm. I'm just like. We're just in this crater, just, like, waiting to die. And at that point, my system, I actually even stood up, and I'm looking out in the direction of where I want to run, and I know I have to, like, crawl first, and then I'm going to run. And I know exactly the path. I'm looking at it, and all of a sudden, the presence is back, even stronger this time. And again. It's patience. I am flooded with patience. It's like I am, like, hit in the gut with Patience. I'm just seeing him so clearly in my mind. And, yeah, that. The patience, this. This presence, like, it stops me. And the next mortar that comes through it, it hits exactly where I would have been if I continued going. I definitely felt like I. It was like a sliding doors moment. And, you know, in a different dimension. I was, like, dead, but I was here. And my life was saved because of this. Whatever this voice was, saved my life. I go from being, you know, very panicked to then just cooling down as if whatever this thing within me, whatever this window has, like, again, like, this cool breeze has come through it. And at first shocking, but, like, just calming. Patience. I'm just gonna be still and my senses come back and the fear diminishes. And now I'm kind of just, like, there. And luckily, the shelling kind of seemed to stop. Really. There was a pause in it, you know, so I'm just chilling. But then Sasha just, like, he starts to freak out. He's just like, we have to go. And he's just like. He's going. He makes the motion. He's like, I get the. In not so many words, but I just get the sense that I am to follow him at a distance and stay low. And we're going now. And so he just starts going, and we. I mean, just thinking that another. A shell might come over. I'm just crawling as fucking fast as I can. I am, like, getting cut up. My shirt is getting torn. I am just, like, trying to go as fast as I can. And we get to the edge of the woods, and I'm like, we have to run across this shit. And it looks. It's straight out of the movie, you know, it's like no man's land, you know, like, it's all chewed up. And I'm just like, this has gotta be, like, mind like we're running across the fucking minefield. But, like, we had to, you know, Cause they were clearly coming up on us. Plus, they had our location, so we had to go for it. So I went third. Being the gentleman that I am, I let the other two go ahead, and we spaced out. And I. It was very dim, but I was very clearly stepping exactly in their footprints as we ran across this just exposed field, timing it out in between the drones that were constantly flying over. We kind of got a sense of the pattern. They were, like, patrolling the road, you know, so they were just, like, going up and down this road, up and down the road. So we kind of like, they would. They would go Past, and we just, like, booked it. I'm just, like, waiting for, like, Sasha to blow up, basically. Again, it's another situation that it was like. It was so much for my brain. It was actually beautiful in a way. The Milky Way was clearly visible. It was a new moon. There was no moon. So, like, the stars were, like, bright enough to see by. And then just in the distance, there would be, like, these explosions that would happen, and everything would kind of light up, but it was, like, far away, you know, and it was like, I don't know, just, like, running across the field and the way the light was and like, these, like, tracer rounds through the sky. It was, like, very beautiful in a way. And we get to the other side, there's a trench. We, like, slide down into this thing. There's barbed wire. We kind of get through that. The trench is empty, thankfully. And we do this for, like, I don't know, like, two more hours. We're just, like, running in, you know, jumping into the trees. And at one point, it sounds like a freight train is coming at us. And it was actually a tank on the road with, like, next to no lights. It had, like, this little red light. It was, like, infrared, and it was just hauling ass, so we dodged that. And at a certain point, there's just all these red lights, and we're kind of, like, surrounded by, like, red lights. And it was this. It was Ukrainian soldiers, thankfully. And I quickly heard laughter, and I was just like. I knew that we were. That was it. And, yeah, and then this. We were surrounded by Ukrainian troops, and it's like this little recon group. Kids basically out there. They were setting up, like, some little command post. They gave me some water. I remember there was a dog. I was, like, petting the dog. I hadn't had water all day. It was amazing. I used to smoke tons of cigarettes back in the day, and everyone smokes in Ukraine, so I was, like, very close to smoking a cigarette, but I didn't. I probably had the dumbest grin on my face, you know, just, like, fixed there. I was just, like, totally exhausted and completely happy. And we still had a few things to get back home. We had to leave. We had to walk for another hour or so, and we got picked up by an armored car. And then they took us to, like, a command post, and they were asking us questions and stuff. But, yeah, at that point, when I was, like, drinking the water, petting the dog, I knew, like, we were. We were safe. The thing when you're there in Ukraine, it's Like, you don't really have, like, the luxury maybe, of, like, fully processing stuff, but when you leave the country, it's again, just, like, when you come in, you're super nervous. And then when you, like, enter the country, you're just, like. You put your nervousness, like, it has to stay, like, on a shelf away because you just can't deal with that. And then when you leave, it returns. Like, the first time, I really felt, like, anxiety. And, like, any PTSD was, like, far after, like, it happened because, like, the next day, I was just like, oh, I'm in such a good mood. And I was just, like, walking around. I didn't, like, film anything. I went around with a friend. They, like, showed me around the city. I was just, like, ate good food. Everything was wonderful. I felt, like, completely fine. And it wasn't until, like, way later, actually, that I started having this thought. It's like an intrusive thought that actually I was, like, still there, and that I had imagined everything that had happened and that I was actually just still laying there, and I was gonna wake up and be back out there. I don't know. I had this thought, and I would start to feel really claustrophobic and, like, almost like sweat and that, you know, that still kind of comes to me. Yeah. It's a weird thing to think about. I'll say this going through a situation where you have to fight to live really brought me back to myself and really kind of gave me a strength. Impacts my life, you know, today I just think, you know, we can't. We don't. It's almost by design that we don't know everything. You know, there's so many. Just strange things about this world, I think so often, especially in this more modern world, how we're so distracted all the time. But when I was out there, I could only be present in just, like, this insane way. Like, I would imagine, like, the free solo guy, you know, or anyone who does that. Like, the presence you must feel being climbing a mountain and having to focus so intensely. Like, death comes into the room, and it's there, and it's no longer this, like, idea. It's there. I mean, like, the Ukrainian army was, like, watching us the whole time. Like, I sent you that, the drone video. Like, they were also watching us, and they're like, these guys are fucked. You know, they're like, you had, like, a 1% chance of living. Everything had to go, like, right. Even though a lot of things went wrong, but everything had to go right, seemingly to survive. This. And I don't know. I'm just. I'm a different person. I'm still, like, evolving from this moment, but I feel. I. I do feel like I'm. It's deepened me. I'm not like a nihilist or something. You know, I. I believe in something. I. But I'm skeptical of all these experiences. You know, I always try to look at it, like, a little scientifically. I'm like. Well, obviously, like, I was. I was really looking for help and in a pretty desperate situation. So perhaps I created this whole thing to help me. You know, I don't know. Anything's possible, I guess. But I'm just saying that I do not know what this presence, what this patience was. It very well might have been a hallucination, but it saved my life. And to me, it felt like it was not a part of me. It was coming from someplace else.
- [63:38]
Jack Wagner
All right, thank you so much to Ryan for sharing that story. It was so crazy hearing that. You know, I think war is so enmeshed with American culture, it's easy for people to get desensitized by the idea of it sometimes. And it's really interesting hearing a firsthand experience like that and what the reality of it is actually like, especially in the very rapidly evolving modern version of war that involves explosive drones and electronic warfare, which is completely horrifying in terms of what Ryan experienced. I think a lot of people who have been through life and death scenarios like this have had very strange things happen, things that maybe end up getting left out of the official story if and when the person does make it back home to tell people what happened to them. I can imagine some people saying, you know, the brain is in distress during these events, and maybe the brain goes haywire and creates these supernatural experiences. But then again, one can also say that Ryan's brain was more awake and alert and focused than it ever has been, more active than most people's brain will ever be. And maybe those heightened senses allow a person to perceive things that they wouldn't ordinarily be able to. I think, regardless of what it is, Ryan believes that these messages and the presence that gave it to him saved his life. By the way, when this episode comes out, Ryan will be on his way to Ukraine again for another trip. He is still making this documentary despite the small setback of having all of his film gear exploded by mortar rounds. That audio you heard in this episode was the actual recording of this event that Ryan took on that day. I am wishing him the best of luck with that project and this next trip. Please be safe out there. Ryan the organization he works with is called Ukraine Trust Chain. This has been episode 128. The title is Patience and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by North Americans. This episode was edited by myself and engineered by Theo Shafer. Our associate producers are Nikki Kate Delgado and Hayley Pearson. Our artwork is by Cul de Sac Studios. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you can become a patron@patreon.com Otherworld Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five star review and telling your friends about the show. Our social media is therworldpod. Thank you to the team at Odysee. Leah Rees, Dennis, Rob Mirandi, Eric Donnelly, Maura Curran, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor, Michael Lavey, Josephina Francis and Hilary Shuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odysee app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural or unexplained, you can send us your story@storiesotherworldpod.com.