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- [00:00]
Jack Wagner
This episode is brought to you by Factor. I don't know about you, but my busy schedule and summer plans make it really hard to get in the kitchen and cook myself a proper meal. Sometimes for me, that's where Factor comes in. Factor's chef crafted Dietitian approved meals are ready in just two minutes, taking the hassle out of eating well. Factor Meals arrive fresh and ready to eat, perfect for any active lifestyle over the summer and beyond. With 45 weekly menu options, you could pick gourmet meals that fit your summer gains and goals. Choose from options like Calorie, Smart, Protein plus, Keto, and more. I love Factor. It's a way for me to have home cooked meals that are healthy and easy without having to waste money eating out or ordering delivery because I hate the feeling at the end of the week knowing that I wasted money and ate like crap the entire time. Get started@factormeals.com OtherWorld 50 off and use code OTHERWORLD50OFF to get 50% off and free shipping on your first box. That's code OTHERWORLD50OFF@Factor Meals.com OtherWorld 50 off.
- [01:11]
Liz
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- [02:00]
Healer
Now.
- [02:00]
Liz
Listeners of this podcast can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit RosettaStone.com RS10 to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to RosettaStone.com RS10 and start learning today.
- [02:23]
Healer
Foreign.
- [02:30]
Jack Wagner
Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host Jack Wagner. This story comes from Liz, a woman from the UK who has spent years battling chronic health issues that, at the time of the story, left her unable to work in the same way that she once did. After countless visits to doctors with no answers, a friend suggested that she try a spiritual healer who this friend highly recommended. Liz had completely rejected all forms of religion and spirituality as an adult. And she was frustrated by this idea and refused these suggestions again and again. She did not want to go to a spiritual healer. That is, until this friend. And eventually the healer herself continued to insist, even to the point where this healer offered to give her the sessions completely for free. Wanting to finally put an end to the pressure, Liz eventually agreed to do it. What happened next completely shattered Liz's idea of what was possible and gave her a kind of healing that maybe she didn't even know she needed. This is an incredibly unique story and I'm very excited for you all to hear it. This episode is called the Void and you're listening to Otherworld.
- [04:04]
Healer
Hello, is this Bobby? Yes.
- [04:05]
Jack Wagner
It is at its core, the science.
- [04:07]
Healer
You can't argue with. I was worried about. All of a sudden it is up in the sky.
- [04:11]
Jack Wagner
It's almost frustrating that it's happening.
- [04:13]
Healer
I'm literally gonna. Its limbs were just like wrong.
- [04:18]
Jack Wagner
Everybody moves back into the light, even.
- [04:20]
Healer
If it takes them a minute. My Name's Liz. I'm 51, I live in southern England in the UK. I do ceramics. I'm an artist and I grew up in South Wales. As far as my spiritual beliefs go, I was brought up extremely religious. I mean, almost like a cult really. It was at Fire and Brimstone Welsh Baptist Church and it took a long time to let go of all of that hateful religion. But now I would just say that I'm not an atheist. I'm open minded. I think it's a bit arrogant to think that we know everything that exists. I don't think we do. So I'm just kind of open minded, but a bit skeptical as well. So about 15 years ago I developed a really debilitating back condition and I had just finished doing my masters in filmmaking and had moved back to where I now live. The pain was. It was unbearable, you know, and I'd experienced pain in the past and I think I have quite a high pain threshold but. But I couldn't walk, I could barely sit or stand. I honestly thought it was going to be like a short term thing that I could sort of will myself better through every kind of, you know, physio available. It was a real shock as I'd always been a really busy person. You know, at one time I had five different jobs. You know, I never did less than two jobs at a time. You know, I was a real sort of motivated go getter, full throttle. And so it was a real shock to the system to suddenly not be Able to move. It just put my life completely stopped. Everything that I was trying to achieve at the time. It was quite overwhelming, the whole thing, to be honest. This just didn't seem to. I don't know, didn't seem to want to go. And it hasn't, because I still have it now, though probably not quite as bad as it was. I had tried everything to get better. I'd done physio, swimming, physio, the osteopath, hydrotherapy, tried just about everything there was. And I just kept having relapses over and over. And I was sort of at my wit's end. And an acquaintance I knew had suggested this woman that she knew who was a spiritual healer. I'd met her through. I was trying to put a film together at the time, and I needed a Russian coach to coach the cast members of this short film. She had come from the local university and had agreed to, you know, help out. So I got to know her a bit and it was sort of through this time, she'd sort of seen me go from, you know, being full at it with the film to suddenly being really incapacitated. I think that's what made her suggest this other Russian lady that she knew. She didn't really elaborate on what was involved, but she said, you know, she's had a lot of success with people that she's helped have had physical afflictions, and she's really nice and she doesn't charge anything for it. It's only something she discovered she could do in the last sort of few years. But I was, you know, highly skeptical and not very open to it at all. I just thought, nonsense, you know, I'm not interested in this. And she kept going on and on about this woman. And eventually I agreed more than anything to just stop her going on about it. My friend sort of explained that the spiritual healing was, I guess, a little bit like Reiki. Not that I've ever had that, but it sounded like it, in that the woman would just kind of move her hands around my body above the problem areas, and that I could experience maybe feeling energized from it. I think because I'd been brought up with this, I mean, just horrible fire and brimstone, really severe cult like chapel that I'd been forced to go to as a child and teenager. You know, I was not at that time open to anything remotely involved with anything to do with spiritualism or. I just thought, oh, what a load of bullshit. I was quite negative about it. But my friend eventually sort of convinced Me to let. Let her give this woman my number. But I just thought, I'll blow this woman off. I won't see it through. And this woman kept contacting me and I kept making excuses and, you know, canceling all the time. But she didn't seem to kind of get the message and just kept on and on, which was really odd because she didn't want any payment for the treatment. She probably tried to contact me, the healer lady, a good sort of six, eight, possib, 10 times. And I made every kind of excuse imaginable, which, you know, was hard considering she knew that I was pretty incapacitated at home. So it got harder and harder to make excuses or cancel last minute, which I did. And she just kept persisting. I was definitely suspicious and confused as to why she just wouldn't get the hint and kept on trying to rearrange with me. Even though, you know, by this point I felt like I was being really rude. I just found the whole thing very odd. I just thought it was all just very strange that she was so persistent when I. Yeah, when I clearly wasn't interested at all. So this woman, you know, wouldn't give up on trying to me. So eventually I just thought, I'm gonna have to let her come and see me because she's just not gonna leave me alone. So I was, I would say, like, pretty annoyed, really, that she was like, borderline harassing me to come to my home. And I wasn't that happy about it. So I just. I guess I just resigned myself in the end to, this is gonna happen. Let's just get it over and done with, and then I can just forget all about it. So I remember waiting for her to come, and she rang the bell. I eventually got to the door, opened the door, and my first impression of her was really, really negative. I just thought, oh, my God, she looks really odd. What a weirdo, you know, which is really uncharacteristic for me to be so. And charitable. She was a fair bit older than me, I think. You know, I was about 35 at the time, and I think she was in her sort of mid to late 50s. She's quite short, had sort of a severe black bob. Seem to remember kind of quite red lipstick, I think. And she kind of reminded me of a Russian doll. I'm not sure if it was because I knew she was Russian or what, but she looked. Yeah, she just reminded me of a Russian doll. I don't know what I was expecting exactly, but she just looked like someone's Mum. Just a kind of, I don't know, it was like a dichotomy that she was. She looked a bit severe on one hand but on the other very homely. It was a strange sort of combination. I was really kind of like, ugh, let's just get this over with. Like a, you know, really put upon teenager. And I let her walk in front of me and she walked into the front room and she turned around and the only way I can describe it, it was like a. I don't know, like a. Like a punch to my soul. It almost took the breath out of me in that I was suddenly overcome with massive gratitude and relief that she was here. Which seemed so, so strange to me because I didn't want her to be here. And I'd gone from feeling really irritated to suddenly, yeah, just being, oh my God, almost like, oh thank God she's here. It was like as if it came from somewhere else because I certainly hadn't been feeling like that at all about it. She told me that I didn't need to take off any of my clothes or anything like that. That if I could just on the floor, which I was very used to doing because that was where I was most comfortable with the pain that I was in and to just lie on my front and that she explained that she would, wouldn't actually be touching me. That she would just sort of have her hands a few inches above my body and would just sort of like sense where the hands needed to go and that I might experience a feeling of warm or. Quite often people feel some energy. Like they have a bit more energy after she's treated them. But there wasn't really a lot of small talk or anything. It was sort of like let's get down to business. I didn't feel nervous once I'd had that like initial reaction when she turned around to look at me. So I felt quite at ease doing what she was asking me to do because I'd been flooded with this sort of sense of, you know, gratitude and relief almost that she'd arrived suddenly even though I'd, you know, obviously been really putting her off all this time. So I felt quite sort of calm and at ease doing what she wanted me to do. So I lay down on the cushions and she kneeled down on the floor next to, to me and told me to just close my eyes and relax and she'd start doing what she did. So there was no talking as such and I just lay there and I've got a pretty active imagination so I Was just, you know, million million thoughts a second, as usual, just thinking about lots of stuff. And I was slightly aware, not hugely aware where she was with her hands over my sort of back and sort of slightly aware that she was around my shoulders. And then sort of going lower down my back. And then kind of, she. She sort of went down my back slowly. And again, her hands weren't on me, but I could still sort of sense where she was sort of. And then as she went lower down my back, she kind of went. Went to the area where the main issue was, which was three severely prolapsed lumbar discs. So she kind of hit that spot and yeah, that's when it happened. The only way I can describe it was I heard like a kind of sucking, like a. Like all sound and everything had been sort of sucked into this silent space. And I couldn't open my eyes where I was in the room or anything like that. It was like I no longer had any connection to my physical body or the room that I knew that I was in with her. I was suddenly in this completely black void. The sense of it was, there was no sound, there was no light, there was no air. It was like I was no longer breathing. I felt like my consciousness just was somewhere else. It just wasn't connected to my body anymore. And I was in this black, strange space. And I started to feel really panicked, like, what's happening? How can I get back to my body? Where am I? Have I died? You know, it was really frightening to begin with. Out of the darkness, I saw a figure appear, but it was kind of slightly blurred and it started coming towards me. And as the figure came closer towards me, I started to realize it was my mother who had died. I think I was 35 then. She died when I was 19, so, you know, quite a long time ago. And I remember thinking in my mind, oh, my God, I'm losing my mind. I'm going mad. Is this really happening? What the fuck? You know, I was just freaking out mentally and then sort of telepathically, I guess, because she didn't open her mouth, I heard her voice and she said, yes, this is really happening. Yes, it's really me. You know, my mother is standing in front of me and I think, you know, hearing her voice, and she could see, I guess, that I was kind of very freaked out and frightened. And she sort of just said to me, it's okay, but you need to concentrate on me. Concentrate on me, and you'll be able to see me more clearly. And you'll be able to feel me. And then she said, I want to hold my baby, meaning me. And she just kept saying, you know, that's right, that's right. Concentrate, and you'll be able to feel me holding you. And so I did. And I could. And I could. I could feel her hugging me, holding me, and I was holding her. So I guess at that point I'd. I sort of felt a little bit more physical. Even though I couldn't sort of see my arms or anything like that. I could smell her neck and. And feel it against my skin. And I could feel the sort of the. Her body in my arms that I couldn't actually see. And I could feel her. More importantly, I could feel her holding me tightly. In that moment when I started to concentrate on her, her features became more clear and she kind of looked sort of the same age. I remembered her, like, in her 40s, you know, she died when she was 49. How I remembered her before, I suppose she was sort of ravaged by cancer. She just looked like, I suppose, the best years that we had known her in my teens. And her hair was the same. But what was so odd is that I don't know, when you lose someone you love, as time goes by, you start to forget, you know, exactly what they looked like. And you can look at photos, but in your mind's eye, you can't remember it quite, quite clearly. And I certainly had forgotten what she smelled like and what her skin looked like in her hands. But as I concentrated on her, all these details became super clear. And again, I could. I could smell her. I could, you know, I could see the skin on her hands. I remembered what they looked like. I think by that point I sort of. The fear and the, like, shock and certainly the fear of I'm losing my mind, I'd sort of abated because here I was experiencing something so. Kind of unbelievable, but so visceral. And I think if all I could do was see it, I don't know, it wouldn't have felt so real, but that I could smell her and feel her and feel her touching me. And I was crying and she was crying, but even though I was crying, I still didn't feel connected to my body in the room. It was like I was somewhere else. And these tears were almost like an avatar, like. Like I wasn't aware if I was crying in reality, but in this space that I was in with her, we were both crying and sort of tears of joy and, you know, sort of a little bit of excitement and like, this is crazy. Like, how is this happening? And it was really odd because it's not like I was at that time in my life still, you know, deeply grieving her in the way I had been when I was 19 and in my early 20s where I, you know, experienced grief a lot. At this point, I kind of, you know, let go and was, you know, not thinking about her every day like I used to be, and not sort of feeling her loss in the way that I had done years ago. So I was quite sort of like. Not to say I'd moved on from the death of my mother, but it wasn't something I thought about all the time. When she said, you know, I want to hold my baby, it felt so strange because I would never refer to myself in that way. And I think also I'd had so much put on me as a child and a teenager that I never felt like a child. I always felt like an adult from a really young age. And to hear her calling me her baby was really sort of strange. And, you know, when I thought about afterwards, you know, was this something I just needed to hear myself? You know, could this be something I made up myself in my own mind? And just that one detail made it seem, like, unlikely or kind of unbelievable because it was. It sort of stuck out to me, my baby. It was. It was quite strange. And the next thing she said to me after we kind of, like, you know, had been crying and going, oh, my God, you know, it's really you. It's really you, is that she said, I need you to know that I'm. Well, we. Especially your father, we're both really sorry for the way we treated you as a child, and we need you to know that we're so, so proud of you now. It was really emotional to hear her say that and to refer to my father as, well, who wasn't there. But she made it sound like they were together. And to hear that was. It took a long time for those words to kind of sink in, I think. I'm not sure if they fully have even now, but to hear that was profound because I hadn't. You know, I don't think my father could help the way he was, but he made my childhood extremely difficult. And in lots of ways, she put on way too much responsibility on my shoulders from a very, very young age. And so, yeah, it was. It was good to hear that for sure. And it was very. It was jarring in a way, because at that point, I'd been doing therapy, and, you know, I Just started to kind of allow myself to feel angry at my parents for some of the stuff they'd done. And even though I'd been angry at my father from when he had died when I was 9, and it was easier to be angry at him because he was so open in his dislike of me from when I can remember being a toddler and onwards, that it was easier to kind of be angry at him for his behaviour. But it had been very hard with my mother because there had been good times and there had been bad times and it was so much harder to kind of look at the worst things my mother had done and accept that she hadn't been this amazing mother. So it was. Yeah, it was very jarring to hear her say that, admit that. So the experience of being there in the void, it felt sort of timeless, but at the same time very fast as well, because, you know, the conversation, only there was only a few sentences spoken before I was kind of sucked back out of, was very abrupt. And I didn't have a chance to say goodbye to my mother. It was definitely. It was really strange. It was like being sucked down like a drain pipe almost. It was like a sort of sound in my ear. Yeah, just a. And then like. Like you were. Yeah. Entering somewhere and leaving somewhere in a sort of like a gust of wind that was sacked really abruptly is the only way I can describe it. I think it was when the Healer moved her hand away from the base of my spine. It was like as if the connection was broken completely and I couldn't go back there. I don't know how I got there. I don't know how I got back my consciousness, obviously, but there was no control over it. It was only in that moment while her hands were over the base of my spine. And then the connection was broken and I was back in the room, back in my body, and aware that I was crying in my physical body. Even though I'd been crying in the void, I wasn't aware of my physical body crying. And then suddenly I was aware that I'm back in the room with this woman who I don't know, and she doesn't know what's just happened to me. And I'm very self conscious that, you know, I did not want to tell this woman why I was crying. And so I sort of then didn't say anything. It was so awkward. It was so strange. She didn't ask me why I was crying at all. She just sort of carried on a bit longer. And then she finished. After she finished I sort of sat up and I felt really amazing. I felt like I'd been plugged into an electric socket and suddenly my power was back up at full. It was, it was quite amazing. I felt, yeah, very different. And she just put her stuff, got her back together and she just said, okay, same time next week. And I said, yeah, yeah, okay. And she confirmed that, you know, there was no, no cost at all, that she did it for free. And I thought, okay, yeah, okay, I'll do that. If I feel, feel like this again, then, then it's whatever the hell is going on, whatever kind of weird mind blip I've just experienced, you know, it's good to actually feel like I've got some energy again. I wasn't sure whether it was going to be a one off or multiple sessions or if it was multiple, how long it would go on for because I think initially I was just gonna, you know, let the thing happen and then just be thanks but no thanks to the woman afterwards. But I think because I'd felt energized by it, I thought, well, you know, it's free, let's see, maybe she, maybe she can heal me. Maybe, you know, if I feel this much better after, you know, after what she's done, then maybe it's worth it. But I was still quite frightened by the thought of, of this thing happening again. I spent the time between her leaving and the next session, I think worrying quite a lot that I was losing my mind. I was just thinking, oh great, great. I'm having a total mental split here. This, this is so fucking weird. Like what the hell happened to me? And I didn't tell anybody because I was just, I think just very shocked that this strange thing had happened and I didn't understand it, I didn't know if it was real or what. And so I kind of put it to the back of my mind until the following week when she came back. And you know, before she came back, I remember sort of saying to myself, right, that's, it sounds strange saying now because it wasn't as if it was a negative experience, but I, but I was still kind of frightened and shocked by, by the experience. So I was saying to myself, you know, right now you're not going to go back there, you're going to, going to stay in control of your mind and you're going to really concentrate. Imagine you're in a beautiful Mediterranean setting by waterfall and it's sunny and you can smell like the lavender. And even now when I think about what it was I was conjuring in my mind. I can see the place again now because I made it so real. Because I wanted to kind of, I don't know, stop the thing from happening in case it happened again. Then if I just really, really visualized a relaxing space and I made it really real in my mind, then hopefully that weird thing won't happen again. I think at that time I was very preoccupied with the idea that I was going mad. And so even though it'd been sort of comforting in one sense to see my mother, I was very much like, no, that can't happen again because it's insane.
- [31:36]
Jack Wagner
All right, we'll be right back after this quick break. I track my steps, sleep, and even my screen time. Why wouldn't I track my cat's health, too? That's why I use Pretty Litter. It's like smart tech, but for your litter box. This color changing litter actually monitors your cat's health by detecting potential issues in their urine, things like ph changes or blood. So I could catch problems early. Pretty Litter makes all things with my cat so much easier. Not only does it control odors, it also lasts longer than other litters I've tried. I'm very serious about keeping my home clean and smelling clean. With Pretty Litter, I don't have to choose between a fresh house and a healthy cat. This litter is practically magic. It's low dust, controls odors, and lasts up to a whole month. The best part? It of course monitors my cat's health every time he uses the box. Right now save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy at prettylitter.com otherworld that's prettylitter.com otherworld to save 20% on your first order AND get a free cat toy prettylitter.com otherworld Pretty litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veteran veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. Seaside for details hey, what's up flies?
- [33:05]
Healer
This is David Spade. Dana Carvey. Look at I know we never actually.
- [33:09]
Jack Wagner
Left, but I'll just say it. We are back with another season of Fly on the Wall. Every episode, including ones with guests, will.
- [33:16]
Healer
Now be on video.
- [33:18]
Jack Wagner
Every Thursday, you'll hear us and see.
- [33:20]
Healer
Us chatting with big name celebrities.
- [33:23]
Jack Wagner
And every Monday, you're stuck with just me and Dana.
- [33:25]
Healer
We react to news. What's trending, viral clips follow and listen.
- [33:29]
Jack Wagner
To Fly on the Wall. Everywhere you get your podcasts.
- [33:33]
Healer
When you haven't found love, it can feel like everyone else has. It's in every movie, every song, and all the PDA.
- [33:43]
Jack Wagner
Looking for love sucks.
- [33:45]
Healer
Thankfully, California Psychics can give you the guidance you need to find the one we guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free and new customers receive 20 minutes for just a $20. Visit californiapsychics.com and experience the joy of certainty. California Psychics Summer's here and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best dress season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend getaways in your everyday wardrobe. Discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango Skims, Princess Polly and madewell. It's easy too, with with free shipping and free returns in store order, pickup and more. Shop today in stores online@nordstrom.com or download the Nordstrom app.
- [34:34]
Jack Wagner
Jamie Lee Curtis and Lindsay Lohan are back in Disney's Freakier Friday.
- [34:39]
Healer
Yes. Yes.
- [34:41]
Jack Wagner
On August 8th, we switched bodies.
- [34:43]
Healer
I am freaking out right now.
- [34:44]
Jack Wagner
Let's pause and reframe. Get tickets now, now, now, now for the ultimate movie event of the summer.
- [34:50]
Healer
I definitely don't know how to act as an old person. What do they do? Talk about transitional lenses, home repairs, John.
- [34:56]
Jack Wagner
Mayer, or, you know, Coldplay? Disney's Freakier Friday in theaters August 8th. Get tickets now. Rated PG. Parental guidance suggested.
- [35:18]
Healer
On the second session, I actually had my sister's dog with me because they had gone away for a few days. He's very excitable. He was a chocolate Labrador. But it was so strange. She came in the second time and he was. He just behaved completely different to normal. He just was so relaxed. He went up to say hello to her and then when I lay down on the floor and I thought, oh my God, he's just gonna go insane. Now when I get on the floor, he's gonna be really excited. But instead he laid down on the floor next to me really calmly and just went to sleep next to me, which was weird because that was not like him at all. So there I am. I'm trying to keep my mind at the Mediterranean Spa place in my mind and she starts again and I' really? Well, I'm really imagining this place and really like zoned into it. And then her hand goes again near my spine over the same spot and again I'm sucked back into the black void place again. And I'm like, oh my God. Oh no, this is happening again. Like, what the fuck? And I see my mother and she's like, yes, yes, you're here again. It is really me. Like as if she didn't want to have to go through that whole experience again, like it was a waste of time and she didn't have much time, I very much got the sense that it was like we didn't have time to waste. You know, we didn't know how long this interaction was going to last for. So it was like she needed to get certain things across to me. So she was. She was the same. I could see her really clearly again, but it was this kind of much more of a feeling of like, you know, we haven't got much time. You know, whatever needs to be said needs to be said. And I think I was. Because it happened again, I was a little bit more accepting that this was actually happening. And so I started to then want to ask her questions. And the first thing I sort of said to her, because I'd had, like, so many obstacles and difficult things happen in my life, and, you know, I'm. I'm a really positive, optimistic person, thank goodness. And so I always, you know, think things could be worse in. In a. In a positive way. Things could always be worse. You know, you should be grateful for the good things that you do have. So I always kind of find the silver lining in situations, no matter how sort of tenuous it is. And so I asked her, you know, am I. Am I ever going to get to where it is I'm trying to get to in my life? And she said, yes, but you need to let go of the two things you're most afraid of. And she said, and what are those two things, do you think? And I thought about it, and I said, well, because I was always worrying about money. We'd been brought up in quite a lot of poverty. And so I said, you know, I'm worried I'll end up homeless. I'm worried I won't be able to buy food and I'll be hungry. And she said, have you ever not had a roof over your head or food on your table? And I said, no. And she said, and you never will, so you need to let go of those. Of that worry because it's never going to happen to you. And then I said, oh, you know, what about my sister? I'm worried about her. I'd always sort of taken a lot of responsibility for my sister. I'd had to look after her as a child and, you know, as a teenager, and I was sort of worried about her. She had a lot of stuff going on in her life at the time. And I said to my mother, you know, could she come Here, could she come and do this and speak to you as well? And she said, no, no, your sister wouldn't be able to and you shouldn't worry about her so much. She's going to be fine. And she'll be, and she'll be really fine when she has her babies. At the time, you know, my sister wasn't trying for kids, she wanted kids. But there was stuff going on at the time with my brother in law had had an accident where he fallen in lift shaft and he was, he was like debilitated himself at that time. And so, yeah, so they were trying for kids at that point. And she'd said, you know, no, she'll be fine, she just needs to have her babies and it'll all be okay. Something else she said to me on the second time that I was there talking to her is that she said she was so glad this woman had come because she needed her, she'd needed her to come so that she could speak to me. Like this was the, was a link. Like there was no way she could have spoke to me unless me and this woman had met. When she said that to me, I guess I sort of lost a bit of my hesitancy that I'd had about the whole thing in that, you know, here it was again, this thing was happening and she was telling me, you know, that this woman needed to be here. It was almost like as if she'd been trying really hard to get this message to me. And finally she was able to, finally this woman was here. And yeah, it was able to happen. And then I'm pretty sure the lady moved her hand again and again I was gone. I was back in the room, so to speak with the dog and with this lady and crying again and again, not wanting to tell her why I was crying because I, you know, couldn't believe what had just happened to me again. And I didn't really know her and I didn't want to tell her what had happened. So I tried to stop crying again. And we finished the session and she just said, can you do the same time again next week? And I said, yeah, okay. And she left. So after the second session, I, you know, was upset again and I, I didn't say anything again to the, to the healer about what happened because I was just still sitting in shock, I guess. And I didn't tell anybody else either. So by the time the third appointment came round, I wouldn't say I was hoping that I'd have the connection again or I wasn't hoping that I would. Or that I wouldn't. And I wasn't trying to have it happen, but also I wasn't trying to not have it happen in the way that I had been on the second. Second time. I think I just went into it thinking, if it happens, it happens. You know, it seems that I don't have any control over this. So, you know, I kind of know it's nothing to be afraid of. Now. If it does happen, it does. And so she came. Then the third time, and again when she went to that area of my back, I was sucked again back into the space. But this time the space wasn't black, it was white. And it felt very different. Whereas the other place felt like there was no air or light or matter, this place felt quite different. It felt foggy, it felt muggy, it felt heavy and, yeah, almost in total contrast to the black space that felt like there was nothing there, but it was just this empty void where nothing sort of existed. I was a little bit aware of feeling cold, I suppose, and almost like the mist was real. And then I was kind of hit, I suppose, with a. Not with the indifference that I'd had before it started. I felt kind of desperate in this last one. I don't know if it was because I could tell that it was different, but I suddenly kind of wanted the experience to happen. And I could see my mother, but she was sort of physically quite far away from me. It was definitely harder to hear her. And I could, no matter how much I tried to concentrate. Because the first time it seemed that when I really concentrated on her, she become much more visceral and clear to me. This time I was trying, but there was nothing I could do. She was sort of at this distant point from me. And again, it wasn't like I saw her mouth moving when she spoke. It was just sort of like telepathic, I guess. It was like she was away, away. And I couldn't hear her quite as clearly as she was sort of dissipating and going further away. So it was, yeah, this sense of space between us that hadn't been there before. And I said, you know, I can't get to you. I can't. No matter how much I concentrate, I can't seem to move closer to you or see you or speak to you, you know, I felt really like there was all this fog between us. And she was said, you know, oh, it's okay. I know, I know it doesn't matter. I've. I've been able to tell you what you need to hear. And so you. We don't need to. We don't need to speak anymore. And she said, but she. Yeah, and then she said, if ever you need me. And this was such a strange way to say this. If ever you need me, I am but a thought away. It was such a strange sentence. I am but a thought away. And then she kind of disappeared, and it was just white. And then the lady moved her hand from the area as she was going around, and I was sucked back out of there. And I felt very sure that I would not have this experience again. It felt really final and like it was done with. I don't know how to explain that I knew it wouldn't happen again, but I could just tell that that was it. Like it had been an effort for her to be there and that she was so desperate to tell me what she needed to tell me. And it was sort of like she was at rest about it, like she wasn't worried anymore. And I think at that point then I was crying, but it was real grief tears. And I remember I really cried because I knew it wouldn't happen again. And. And that time, as I got to know this woman a little bit more, I finally told her what had been going on. As she came to the end of what she was doing, I turned around and said to her, you know, I've got to tell you what's been going on and why I've been crying. And so she said, okay. You know, people do cry when I do this sometimes, and quite often it's just a. A release of energy and emotion. So it's. It's not abnormal for someone to cry when this happens, so don't worry about that. And I said, well, no, I think I need to tell you, like, what's been happening to me when you've been sort of over different areas of my body. So I started described to her where I'd experience. And she listened and she said, okay. She said. She says it's interesting. She said, I've never experienced this with somebody that I've worked on before, but I know plenty of other spiritual healers who have described exactly this with their. With their patients or clients experiencing a sort of connection between this world and that of the dead, I guess. And she started to elaborate a bit more about what she felt was going on because she wasn't shocked by what I was telling her. And she said because she hadn't been doing it for that long, she knew this was possible from what other people had told her. But she herself had never experienced it, but yes. So she. Yeah, she was a very. She was a really interesting person as I got to know her. She was a atheist and her education was very much science based in the past. And even though she was sort of doing languages now, and she saw everything in a very logical way. And she tried to explain it to me as what had happened was a. She said that we all vibrate. Our atoms vibrate at different frequencies. And she said they're all different, everyone's frequencies are different. And that when we're alive, those in bodies, our vibrations and our molecules are at a low resonance. And that people who have passed on or without bodies now that their frequency is higher. And that it sounded to her like what had happened was that her frequency had been the right frequency to allow my mother to communicate with me through her, is how she just. Is how she described it to me. I think when she described or tried to make sense of what had been happening to me, it was sort of the first time I'd ever heard anything like that. So I, Yeah, I didn't know how to. How to process what she was telling me, really, because it was so far away from anything I'd ever heard before. And part of me kind of wanted to believe it because then it meant I wasn't having a mental break. But part of me was like, really skeptical still. I feel like these days I'm really right down the middle. Like I would like for it to be true. I'm not really sure. She spoke to me about a lot of different things. Like once I'd described what I was experiencing. And it was almost as if she was really relieved that I'd brought this to her. Because she then went on to tell me about the weird experiences she'd been having ever since her friend had given her my phone number and said, oh, this person is in a lot of pain and I think, you know, you could help her. So she proceeded to tell me what had been going on with her. And she said, you know, I know you did not want me to come here. She said, it was so clear. I mean, you kept canceling, you kept not replying. She said, and you know, I'm a busy person. I've got a lot of commitments in my life. She said, normally if somebody made it that clear that they weren't really interested, I would just think, okay, fine, you know, I've got better things to do with my time than chase you. She said. But she had felt almost harassed from the first moment that her friend had told her about Me, she said she kept hearing a voice in her mind saying, you've got to see Liz, go to Liz, see Liz, like constantly. It drove her insane. She said, so that's why I kept badgering you to come to see you, because this thing was like a bee buzzing around her all the time. And she, she'd never experienced anything like it before and it was really irritating. And she said, I kept saying, I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying my best, like shut up, Yes, I am trying to get a hold of this girl. And she said, and the only way she could describe it was that it felt like a worried mother. The urgency was really palpable and she was really relieved when I finally like let her come because this sort of buzzing going around in her mind sort of quietened down a fair bit. And yeah, she, she, I know she was seeing a few different people that she was helping at the time. And one of the people she was helping was a very elderly lady who had Parkinson's. And when she would treat her, her shaking would stop for a few days each time. And she said, you know when she'd be treating this lady, she said this voice would be going, see Liz, you need to see Liz. When are you seeing Liz? Have you, Are you seeing Liz? And it was just non stop. And she said I'd have to say in my mind, yes, I'm seeing her tomorrow, please leave me alone, I need to concentrate on this lady at the moment. And she said it was really irritating and again really confusing to her because she'd never experienced anything like it either. And she told me this after I had admitted to her what I was experiencing. This old lady had said to her while she was being treated, can you see the other lady in the room with us? And the healer had said, no, what other lady? And this old woman said, yes, she's a middle aged lady in her 40s, she's quite short and she's got a shorter sort of brownish hair and she's stood there in the doorway and she's holding a willow patterned cup and saucer and she's saying, does anyone want a cup of tea? Do you want a cup of tea? She said, can you see her? And the healer said, no, I can't see it. So when, when she told me that I sort of had a, I don't know, like a cold sweat sort of went down my, my spine because I said, oh my God, that, that actually sounds like my mother, that like she was short, she had short, dark brownish hair and she. She was always asking everyone, do you want a cup of tea? Do you want a cup of tea? It was her thing. And we also had this. She'd had for when she got married, this blue and white willow pattern dinner set, which was her best set and the one that she got out four guests. And so that was pretty weird when she. When she told me that as I got to know the healer a bit better, you know, it turns out that she had quite a lot of health issues herself. Ironically, I think she probably had fibromyalgia. I can't exactly remember how she told me she realized that she had this ability, but I think it was that she was holding someone's hands, a family member who was really unwell and they started to feel like loads better all of a sudden. And I think that's how she sort of started to wonder whether there was, I don't know, that she had some sort of ability. But again, she thought of it in a very kind of in a scientific way, like it was to do with molecules or her frequency. And she didn't, she didn't think of it in a. In a kind of spiritual way. And it was only through then, when she met other spiritual healers, that she started to learn more about, like, what was happening and how she was doing this. And. But yeah, so she, so she, after she told me about this experience where the voice in her head kept saying, see Liz, see Liz, You've got to speak to Liz. And with her ill health, she was often quite tired. And especially after she helped somebody with the healing, she often felt quite drained afterwards. So she would sleep quite a lot when she wasn't working. And she said after the first time that she'd come to me, and for the next few sessions when she was going to come to me, she'd fallen asleep a few times and was feeling an almost thought, you know, if I don't feel a bit better, I might have to cancel myself. And she said she'd fallen asleep and she was woken up by this enormous loud bang. And it was about half an hour before she was meant to. To come to me. And the. As soon as she woke up, it was. She was like, oh, my God, what just happened? Did something just break? Did something fall? Did something? And she rushed around the house looking for this noise and there was nothing there. But at the same time, when she woke up, it was like this buzzing, like voice that she was always hearing was like, liz, Liz, don't miss your session with Liz. And, you know, it would have been Fine for her to have messaged me and said, I'm sorry, I can't make it this week. But it was, you know, it frightened her that. And it was, it happened more than once as well when she was due to see me, that she had fallen asleep and yeah, was woken up by this inexplicable massive bang in her home. That she didn't know what the cause of it was. At none of these points did she or nor did the person I knew that had recommended her to me and me to her knew anything about my parents having died. I'd never spoken about that to the friend who knew the healer. And so she, she. The only information that the healer had was that I had a really bad back condition and that I was in pain and that nothing seemed to be working to alleviate it. So she didn't have any information on me. And this was at a time where maybe Facebook existed, but I was not on Facebook or anything like that. And even if I had have been, I wouldn't have been writing on there, oh, I've got no parents, you know, things like that. So, you know, there was no way she could have got any of this information. At a certain point we stopped the sessions because she said she realized that she couldn't actually heal me. That it was amazing that I was getting all this energy from her, but that I was like a bottle bottomless pit of energy and that I probably needed to look elsewhere, like maybe psychotherapy or something. You know, as nice as it was me getting this big burst of energy, my back wasn't actually getting better and she wasn't, she was, her health was deteriorating. So, yeah, we decided to, you know, I was glad that she'd come to me and I'd had all the experiences I had. But yeah, I agreed with her that I don't think she was going to heal me. But yes, I never saw her again after that. I think, you know, in hindsight, thinking about the whole experience, I think that maybe it wasn't that she was meant to come to me to heal me physically. I think that, yeah, it was more about the experience that I had and, and what that sort of did for me emotionally. So I think, yeah, we both kind of realized that this wasn't the, the path for me to get better really with her, but that, yeah, she had felt really pushed to come to come to me. And like after we'd had those, I'd had those experiences and then they didn't have any again after that. We eventually just agreed that, you know, her Health was getting worse and she wasn't really going to fix me, I don't think. I still question it today. What the hell did happen? Was it real? Was it just my brain somehow creating something that I needed to know and I couldn't do it on my own? Who knows? But yeah, I think hearing about her experiences kind of did make me feel a bit more like that did happen, whatever it was. And she was also a little bit freaked out herself by. By the experiences that she was having unbeknownst to me and I was having unbeknownst to her, you know. So when we did finally talk about what we both experienced, I think helped both of us to feel a little less alone or freaked out by our own experiences, even though they were different experiences. It helped us both to talk about it and feel like it was a. Whatever it was was a positive thing. When I think back on it, I'm more open minded to sort of the unexplained, I guess. I still think I'm pretty much straight down the middle of it all, like equally would love for it to be true and at the same time completely skeptical. I think from listening to more of the stories on this podcast, actually I've sort of started to lean a little bit more, I guess towards not exactly spirituality as such, or believing in ghosts or heaven or anything like that, but maybe more to do with energy and what happens to energy and could there be, you know, are we living in a quantum universe? Does our energy still exist after we die? Yes, it's made me a little bit more open to those ideas, I guess. And as for me personally, what do I think happened to me? I don't really know. I feel like if it was some sort of strange thing that my brain did to me, it seems odd that it happened when it did because the grief I experienced after my mother died was. Oh my God, was so immense. You know, it affected me for years and I was devastated and I struggled for quite a long time. But when this happened, as far as, you know, the grief over the loss of my mum, I had kind of, you know, come out the other side and was, you know, ready for my life to kind of move on by then. So it does seem really odd, the timing of it. I mean, I know I was struggling at that time with other things and was quite frightened as to what was happening to my body and what my sort of financial outlook or, you know, security was going to be if I couldn't work. I guess I was like frightened about those things. But then, you know, it's not like I was brought up, you know, in affluence and never struggled. You know, we were extremely poor and money was always a worry. And I guess I find it harder to believe now that it was just a weird brain glitch. I think at the time I probably felt like that was easier to believe that it was some sort of psychological break or something. But now I think I'm more open minded. And I think ultimately science probably will. Will be able to one day explain all the sort of weird things that we experience. And not, not that I'm saying that, you know, there is no spirit or there's no, you know, there's nothing, there isn't an afterlife or there isn't. I think that, that the two things will perhaps marry up somehow with science and people being perhaps more open minded. I think that's where I'm at with it now.
- [64:54]
Jack Wagner
All right, thank you so much to Liz for sharing her incredible story. There are so many aspects of Liz's experience that kind of baffle me. The void space she kept entering during each session was described so vividly, and it honestly draws so many comparisons to similar places we've heard about from other guests on the show. It obviously brings up the question of whether there is some real dimension or plane out there, or maybe multiple that any of us might be able to tap into like this. I can't imagine what it must have been like to reconnect with her deceased mother in such a strange way. Especially to not believe it at first and to be so confused by what was happening, only enough to finally accept it because of how real and undeniable it felt. Liz described every detail so clearly, from the way her mother smelled to of course, that description of the physical feeling of when they actually embraced. All of that really stuck out to me. You know, I'm sure some aspects of this story, mainly spiritual healing in general, are easy for some people to dismiss, which is understandable. But I thought it was so interesting what the healer was experiencing on her end. From hearing a woman's voice urging her to meet Liz to having another client who had no connection to Liz at all see the spirit of Liz's mother too. On top of that, this healer was doing it completely for free and had a full time job working at a university. So she really had nothing to gain from making any of this up, if that was the case. As Liz mentioned, they stopped working together after the third session because of the healer's own health issues. But I think it sounds like Liz was able to get what she needed out of those three sessions, and that continued to stay with her long after. Thank you once again to Liz for sharing this experience with us. This episode was called the Void and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice Jackal. This episode was edited by Theo Krantz and engineered by Theo Schaeffer. Our associate producers are Nikki Kate Delgado and Hayley Pearson. Our artwork is by Cul de Sac Studios. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you can become a patron@patreon.com Otherworld Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five star review and telling your friends about the show. Our social media is theworldpod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey. Leah Rhys, Dennis, Rob Mirandi, Eric Donnelly, Maura Curran, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor, Michael Lavey, Josephina Francis and Hilary Shuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural or unexplained, you can send us your story@storiesotherworldpod.com.