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- [00:01]
Jamie Lee Curtis
Jamie Lee Curtis and Lindsay Lohan are back to switch things up in Disney's Freakier Friday. It's an absolute riot and the only movie that can be described as so.
- [00:12]
Lindsay Lohan
Much weirder than the last time. What last time?
- [00:14]
Jamie Lee Curtis
It's the Frequel.
- [00:15]
Lindsay Lohan
You ready?
- [00:16]
Jamie Lee Curtis
We've been waiting for that Absolutely.
- [00:18]
Anna
Slays.
- [00:19]
Karen
What deeply out of touch old person.
- [00:21]
Anna
Came up with that?
- [00:22]
Lindsay Lohan
You did. Wow.
- [00:23]
Jamie Lee Curtis
Don't miss the comedy event of the summer for all ages. Disney's Freakier Friday now playing only in theaters. Get tickets now rated PG for rental.
- [00:29]
Karen
Guidance Suggested Abercrombie's viral denim sale is back and Spotify listeners get an extra 15% off with code Spotify AF. Abercrombie is known for their denim with 30 to 50% off all jeans. Find out how denim should feel. Shop the viral denim sale in the Abercrombie app online or in stores. Valid in stores and online through August 11, 2025 in US and Canada. Excludes clearance price reflects discount code. Valid in US and Canada through August 11, 2025. Exclusions apply. See details online.
- [01:08]
Jack Wagner
Welcome to Other World. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This story comes from a woman named Anna who had a very strange experience while visiting an old historic site on a family trip to Ireland. You know, I think it can be kind of hard for the American mind to comprehend. Moving through day to day life amongst buildings and locations that date back hundreds, even thousands of years. Ireland is home to some of the earliest man made structures still standing today. That being said, I'm pretty certain Anna was not heading into this trip to Ireland looking to learn about ancient history or have a paranormal encounter. In fact, she was tagging along with her parents who were on a business trip. Not very spooky at all. In fact, I'm pretty sure Anna was much more interested in checking out the local pubs at this time, splitting the GS, maybe even meeting some handsome Irish lads perhaps. I think the supernatural was about the last thing on her mind when she set out to go on this business trip with her parents. But then on a day of sightseeing with the family, she ended up experiencing something very unexpected while walking through a very old fortress. This episode is called the Fortress and you're listening to Otherworld.
- [02:40]
Anna
Hello, is this Bobby?
- [02:41]
Lindsay Lohan
Yes, it is.
- [02:42]
Jack Wagner
At its core, the science you can't argue with.
- [02:45]
Anna
I'm so worried about all of a sudden is up in the sky.
- [02:48]
Jack Wagner
It's almost frustrating that I'm literally I'm going to die. Its limbs were just like wrong.
- [02:54]
Lindsay Lohan
Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them a minute. My name is Anna. I'm from Georgia. At the time of this story, I was living in Los Angeles, working. I moved out there when I was pretty young. I was 17 when I moved out there for my first career that I'm. Now I say I'm retired from it. My beliefs are still to be determined, but I grew up like Southern Baptist, Evangelical and pretty influenced by that as I was growing up and kind of afraid of it, to be honest. A lot of trauma around it. My family is still somewhat in that world, but not. Not as much. I am not. But, you know, my core beliefs are still kind of there in a way. But at the time of this story, like I said, I was living in Los Angeles, I was working out there. So I would have been about like 22. But at the time, I was definitely still more influenced by how I was raised, those beliefs and pretty involved in the church. My parents were living back in Georgia still at the time. They own a firm, like a finance company, and they get to take trips, like business trips and stuff like that. So this was actually a business trip. So we made it into, I think like a 14 day trip. Basically started out in Dublin and then spent a few nights there, rented a car and then just started driving. Just got to, you know, we got to explore a lot of places. And then we went to, of course, Galway and hung out at a pub. And like the singer, the folk singer had literally a wooden leg. It was just everything you would imagine an Irish pub to be like, was just. It was so on point of what I imagined it to be. I had absolutely zero expectations of having any kind of weird, strange experiences. My goal was to find a cute boy and like fall in love, you know. I was 22. I'm like, this is the trip, like, you know, no expectations going into it of like thinking anything's going to happen. Up to this point in my life, of this trip, I don't think I had ever experienced anything like what I would describe as supernatural, you know, that was not in the forefront of my mind at all or even in the back of my mind. So we planned a day trip to just adventure around. You know, we had the rental car, so we were gonna drive and just stop along the way. Basically, like we've been doing the whole time. If we saw something on the side of the road that we wanted to look at or get into, then we would. I remember we had gone to the beach and then maybe made a few more stops and then it was probably like late afternoon, I think. And we decided to go back to town and we got on the road, but we also kind of. It was unspoken that we were still going to like stop along the way if we wanted to. If we, if we saw anything cool, you know, then we'd stop. And we're going along the road. It's like super woodsy. And on the side of the road I see a sign that says Old Fort. It's literally just like hand painted on an old wooden sign. And I pointed it out and it's like we should stop and go, you know, because we're just. All we're planning to do at this point is just go back to the hotel, go to the little downtown area, eat whatever. So we pull off on this little side road and we're going through fields with like tall grass. Can't see where we're going. Finally we get to a clearing and there's a little old like farmhouse. Clearly this is someone's property. Then over to our right there's beautiful like rolling fields. And then there's this stone thing up on the hill. From the area that we parked in, it looked like a stone wall. You couldn't see much of it. And just like this circular stone wall with little sheep walking around it just idyllic Ireland. There are a few other people like a few other cars parked. So you know, we're not just like trespassing. And then we decided let's go up to the, the fort. And it did have a little sign. I don't remember exactly what it said. It definitely said that it was built in 380. We crossed this little like gravel path where I guess it was the road where you, you know, drive up and down and park along. And like I said, there were a few other cars parked, but it, I don't even remember seeing anybody else like walking around except maybe one or two people. So we start walking. There's a little pathway, you know, you go by the sign. And so we start walking up this little pathway and we get up to the fort where all the sheep, you know, they're little, little tiny sheep just walking around us. And I'm of course 22 year old, me is taking a bunch of selfies in front of the fort and then taking pictures of the fort and the sheep. And I was just obsessed with the beauty, like the simpleness of the beauty of like the, the hills and like the rolling fields. It was just so pretty. So I'm just taking a bunch of pictures I hung back with my dad but my mom went ahead into the fort. It is, I would say, like 10ft, 12ft tall. Definitely tall for me, probably taller than that. I mean, it's. It seemed pretty small from the parking area, but, like, up next to it, it seems pretty massive. And then the front, where the pathway leads up to the fort that we were walking on, then there's what I would call like a little tunnel, a little walkway. It was probably exactly my Height, which is 5, 4, so it's not very high, not very tall at all. So my mom goes in first. I'm not paying any attention to her. And then I would say about three minutes later is when I decided to go in. So when I started walking into it, I'm not thinking anything. And just walking into this old fort. We've seen a thousand different little, you know, old historical sites and places. My dad is not behind me. He hung back for some reason. Then I'm walking through this tunnel. You know, I'm looking around, I'm looking ahead of me. It is just like green. Green grass, stone wall, and then blue sky. And the second I hit the grass on the inside of this ring, it got so, so quiet that the silence was deafening. It was like it went like that, just like a vacuum or vortex or something of like, all the sound got completely pulled out and it was replaced with complete silence. I mean, it was. It wasn't like it was loud on the outside of the fort, but windy. There were sheep outside. They were making noises. Probably some like, bugs, definitely like birds. So all of the. That normal outside noise in this countryside area got sucked out. You know, like when you enter a building and it, you know, you don't hear that outside noise as much, and it just kind of like gets quieter. It wasn't like that sound got quieter. It's like it completely just got sucked out. And there was complete, super loud silence. So much so that it hit me. It shocked me. I can't think of anything I've ever heard like that that was that quiet. It was just. It was not. It was like the opposite of noise immediately at the same time. The other thing I noticed was my body started in my head, started at my head, and it just like spread all the way down from my head to my fingertips to my toes. And it was like a current, like an electrical current pulsing through my body. And it wasn't super fast. It's not like it just like zing went through my body. It was pretty slow. Something came over me and filled my head, filled my chest, filled my throat. You know, all that, and then just like, my fingers, my. My hips, my legs, my toes. And at that point, it actually felt like it was moving. There was movement in it. It wasn't just like, ooh, got real tingly, you know? Like, it. It. Every little inch of my body was also just, like, super tingly. But not my skin. Like, not like my skin was tingling, but, like inside out. My. My muscles, my veins. Like, everything was very tingly all over. It was deeper than, like, my skin being tingly, like I said, almost to the point that I felt like I was kind of floating. I mean, I wasn't floating, but just where I felt very light and very tingly all over. In the span of. I mean, a few seconds, all of this is happening, and then the rest of it hit me, which was the emotion of it. And sounds. I started feeling the. The weight of emotion that came out of nowhere. I wasn't sad, and I wasn't, like, scared at all, but I just started feeling every kind of emotion there is come over me. I started hearing sounds. So, like, in the silence came sounds. It was like there was a lot of people. I mean, it felt very human. It sounded very human. And I heard crying, and I heard laughter, and I heard, like, babies crying and screaming and what I would describe as, like, war cries and all. Everything in between, kind of like a white noise. But you could pinpoint what these sounds were. It sounded so human. Sounded like things I've heard before, and it was so loud. Meanwhile, you know, it was silent, and then now it's just like these deafening sounds. It wasn't coming from one area. It was coming from all around me. It was like there was this speaker. Like there were speakers just completely surrounding my head while this was happening. And this is the weirdest part to me to say because it just sounds so weird. All of a sudden, there is this, like, middle vision of something else. It was like it was an overlay of something else in front of my physical location. So, like, I'm seeing the stone wall, I'm seeing the sky, and then there's, like, this overlay of things playing out right in front of me, kind of like in flashes of. And I don't remember a lot of detail as far as, like, you know, the. The people that I saw or anything, but there were so many people. There were definitely like. Like I said, there were babies, there was crying, there were women and children. And then it was just like life happening in front of me. Like someone was showing me a video, a movie of ages of Lives happening before me. I knew where I was. It's not like I went somewhere else or, you know, was. I don't know, moved at all. Like, I knew where I was, and I was still in the fort, and I was still looking ahead of myself at the fort in the sky. It's just like all of a sudden, all of these people and beings were in front of that, like, between me and the wall. It wasn't 100% solid, like a human being standing right there in front of me. It wasn't in my mind's eye because that would mean that it was, like, in. Inside of my bubble more. This was not inside my bubble, if that makes sense. This was apart from me, and I was seeing it as this is all happening. There was one being or person that stuck out to me that I do remember pretty vividly. I mean, not super in detail, but I know it was this masculine being. The best way for me to describe him was like, he was a warrior. He was holding some large type of shield. He had dark hair. He had dark features and a beard. And past that, I mean, his clothing, obviously, like, I interpret him as a warrior. He had some kind of, like a war paint or something. But again, I cannot see his face in enough detail to tell you exactly how. I just immediately didn't question, really, like, who he was, who he was. He didn't say anything. He didn't, like, speak to me. Nothing happened. It was just. I remember him most to the point that it kind of does feel like he was specifically showing himself for a reason. Like it was intentional, but I don't know why. He was a person. He was a real person. And I don't know how I know this or why I. How I knew this at the time, but, like, I knew that he was a real person that was there. And I don't just mean, like, in the past. I mean, he was right there, right then. Like, you know, all of them were all of those people. And, I mean, there could have been millions. I have no idea. It sounded like there were millions. And I know that they were human beings. Like, have, like, thought to myself, like, am I sure that it was, like, actually people and not, like, aliens and not like, you know, anything, any other kind of, like, weird. Any kind of form of beings? But no, like, the only way to describe it is, like, that I knew it was innately human. Like, everything I was experiencing, it was humanity itself. I was experiencing, like, the humanity of this place through ages of time. And for some reason, he stuck out to me Everything that I saw that I could make out in detail, not only him, but everything else was. I don't know if I would describe it as ancient, but it was. It was old, at least hundreds of years ago. And even the other things that I saw in less detail, like the women were, you know, wearing, like, not dresses. I mean, yeah, dresses, but like, just like, worn clothing. Not like what I was wearing, you know, not my jeans and my boots and my flannel. It felt old. All. Everything that I saw and then I heard and then I felt. Felt old. And the best way for me to describe that part is just like it was. Yeah, it was ancient. It felt ancient. Whether that was like, the people I was seeing or what. It just felt like it had been there for a long time. And it felt like I was seeing things from, like, possibly ages ago. So all this is happening. It's very, very loud. It's very, very strong. My body is overcome with true, like, actual physical feelings throughout my entire body. Just like an electrical current, these overwhelming sounds. I can't hear anything else. I just feel. It's. It's like I'm in the middle of all of these sounds going on around me. And then I'm seeing this, and I can't. You know, I'm not looking away from it. I'm not scared. I'm just. I think at the. At that point, I'm just in shock because there's so much happening. And then I'm also being overcome with the emotion of. Wasn't my organic emotion. I wasn't sad. I wasn't particularly happy. It wasn't like anything influenced me to feel a certain way or start crying, like, getting emotional. But all of a sudden, it's just like. It overcame me. It, like, it hit me like a wave. It hit me hard. And then I just started feeling all of these. The weight of this humanity happening around me. And it was like, good and bad and love and death and everything in between. And all the emotion of that to the point that I just. I started crying a little bit. I mean, I wasn't just sitting there bawling, but, like, I was emotionally affected, too. And I. While all of this is happening, keep in mind I had, like, just crossed this threshold into the fort. And I'm standing basically in the middle of this fort, just standing there, experiencing all this. I don't think there was anyone else in there, but at the time, I have. I couldn't tell you if there were other people in there. And if so, I'm sure I looked really strange, just standing there, like, staring, like, into the sky and the wall of the fort, like, just staring up a little bit. All of this probably. I don't even know how long it took. That part is hard to grasp because it felt like a really long time, but it probably was, like 30 seconds or less. Then it kind of starts to not stop, but, like, it just starts to kind of dissolve or dissipate so that the real. The real stuff is coming back. Like, my. Now I'm noticing. Oh, right, I'm in the fort. I see the wall. I'm here. The noise gets softer. It's still there, but it's kind of like being dissolved. And then I remember, like, okay, my mom's on here. Like, you know, I just start being able to think clearly again because at the time, I was not thinking about anything other than what was going on in front of me and around me. And I look around, and she's over to my right. When I look over and I see my mom, she is standing on the far side of the fort against the wall with her hand raised and, like, holding the wall, and she's kind of bent over a little bit. And I can tell she's not really okay. Like, I can tell something is going on. Just her body language was weird. And I think I pretty much knew in that, okay, she's experiencing this, too. Something's happening with her. I remember I started walking around, and I definitely had questions and was thinking, what the hell just happened to me? Why? You know, what was that? And then I got curious because I saw my mom touching the wall, and so I started walking around, and I start touching the wall, and nothing's happening. You know, I'm just touching the wall, and I feel. I wouldn't say back to normal at this point, but I physically feel okay. And I'm not hearing anything and not seeing anything anymore. I'm just kind of, like, standing there in, like, the aftermath of, like, what the hell? I decide, okay, well, you know, I just start kind of exploring and walking around the fort. And at one point, I look over at my mom again, and she looks over at me, and we make eye contact, and I say to her, you felt that too, didn't you? And she, like, at this point, I can see her face, and she had been crying. She had been upset, and that's how I knew. Like, okay, something. She totally just felt whatever I just felt. And she, you know, nodded in her head. So we just kept walking around. I think she was probably, like, at the point where I Was where she was kind of, like, out of that initial shock of everything and emotions of it. And at this point was just kind of, like, taking it in. And I'm walking around the fort a little bit, just enjoying it, I think. At some point, I. I sit on the grass and I just set and look up at the sky and, like, just take it in. And a mom and a little kid come into the fort, and they're just walking around, and the little kid actually gets up on the wall. Like, so there are little tiny stairs built into the stone wall. And the little kid starts running up and down the stairs, and you can run up the stairs and run alongside the fort, so the kids, like, playing on it and running and jumping and laughing and screaming. And at this point, I guess just in the state I was in, I got so irritated by that. I was like, oh, my God, get off. Like, don't disrupt this place. Like, shut up. You know? And it really bothered me. I wanted the kid. I wanted the kid to, like, stop jumping on the fort and, like, get down and show some respect, you know? And. Because I guess, like, I just. I definitely felt some sort of. And I still feel this. I mean, I. I felt like this has to be protected. Like, this is sacred. Something is here, and you're just jumping all over it, and the mom doesn't care. The mom's, like, encouraging it. And then I remember kind of feeling like, oh, no. Like, it's. This is literally what this place is about, is, like, the life that's in it. Like, this is just adding to. Was just so human. It was so human. I will till my dying day say, like, that was like, the most human feeling I've ever felt, because it wasn't just seeing these people. It wasn't just hearing these people. It was also, like, the emotion. And I know, like, emotions are hard to trust. Like, if you just feel an emotion, like a rogue emotion out of nowhere, it's like, okay, like. But you could literally just like, be feeling something that came out of nowhere that happens. But, like, the way that it hit me and then the amount of different feelings I felt at the same time, that completely flooded my nervous system. It was all just human. It was like. I think I said this in the beginning, but it's like, it was a RA like, the full spectrum of, like, love and joy and death and, like, rage. I mean, I felt all of those things at one time, but the biggest thing that I felt and the thing that I felt overall, like, I felt so much love, and I felt a very deep connection. And I felt a sense of belonging that I have never felt before then or after them. It definitely was intentional. I. I do think that it was intentional. Do we have ancestors that were literally there? I don't know. I have no idea. But, like, you know, I guess it could have been personal if we have that history there. It didn't feel necessarily like, you know, personal. Like, I just know it was meant for me, you know, but it felt completely intentional, like they knew I was there and they were intentionally letting me know we are here and we have been here and this is what this place is.
- [29:48]
Anna
All right.
- [29:49]
Jack Wagner
We'll be right back after this quick break. This episode is brought to you by Rocket Money. A lot of people aren't aware of how much money they spend each month or what they're spending money on. I will never, ever, ever forget the time when Rocket Money caught the fact that I had been paying for a subscription service, a streaming service specifically, that I will not name for at least two years without knowing it. And I figured out it was because my wife and her friend signed up for this service to watch one, I repeat, just one episode of what has to be the dumbest reality show you could ever think of. I will leave it up to you to guess what it is, but it is about a large Christian family with nine children. They signed up, forgot to cancel it, and apparently I didn't notice. I was paying for it for two years while nobody was watching it. Then I signed up for Rocket Money and it flagged this. And you know what? Rocket Money helped me cancel this service. For me, they did it automatically. That's why I'm such a big fan of it. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills so you could grow savings. Rocket Money shows you all of your expenses in one place, including subscriptions you forgot about. Like in my case, even though I didn't even know about about that one. If you see a subscription that you no longer want, Rocket Money will help you cancel it. You'll also get alerts if your bill increases in price, if there's unusual activity in your accounts, if you're close to going over budget, even if you're doing a good job. I did not have Rocket Money when they signed up for that app. Luckily, I do now, and that does not happen anymore. Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the apps and premium features. So cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocket money.com otherworld today. That's rocketmoney.com otherworld the Disney Plus Hulu.
- [31:59]
Jamie Lee Curtis
HBO Max bundle plan starting at just $16.99 a month. Catch Limitless live better now season one with Chris Hemsworth on Disney.
- [32:07]
Lindsay Lohan
We got a lot of work to do.
- [32:09]
Jamie Lee Curtis
Alien Earth on Hulu this Ship the and Final Destination Bloodlines on HBO Max.
- [32:16]
Anna
Death is coming for our family.
- [32:19]
Jamie Lee Curtis
The Disney Plus Hulu HBO Max bundle plans starting at 16.99amonth. All these and more streaming soon. Visit Disney plush huluhbomaxbundle.com for details.
- [32:29]
Anna
You say you'll never join the Navy, that living on a submarine would be too hard. You'd never power a whole ship with nuclear energy, never bring a patient back to life.
- [32:43]
Jack Wagner
Or play the national anthem.
- [32:45]
Anna
For a sold out crowd. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Start your journey@navy.com America's Navy forged by.
- [32:57]
Jack Wagner
The Sea Support for this podcast and the following message comes from America's Navy the Navy offers new graduates, hands on training and experience in careers like computer science, aviation and medicine, plus education and sign on bonuses. Parents help your grads start their career today@navy.com.
- [33:35]
Anna
Well I'm Karen and I'm 64 and I'm very proud of each day that I've lived. So I don't mind telling you that I love to travel and many times that when I've traveled I've traveled with my daughter Anna and we've had a lot of adventures and interesting things that have happened. And the one we're going to talk about is probably one of the most interesting things that has ever happened on a trip for sure, very unusual. So we started out in Dublin and made a counterclockwise circle all the way around Ireland and it was a fabulous trip. This particular day we were touring Ring of Kerry and so we started out early in the morning and we're kind of coming to the end the close of the day. So we saw this sign, I had seen this something about this fort and it was off a little bit off out of the way and so we were like, let's do it. We just meandered in town, the trail and there was a beautiful creek stream with wildflowers. It was a beautiful place. And then we just meandered on down the trail towards the fort and you're just in a pasture and there's sheep around. And then all of a sudden, there's this fort. And it's pretty impressive just from the outside. It's not that large. But when you look at it and you think about, you know, somebody built this and the way they built that and the way we build things now, it was impressive just walking up to it like that. But it was just beautiful surroundings. It's kind of up on a hill, and you can. It kind of overlooks the ocean. So as we're walking up to the fort, like I said, it was just a beautiful area. Hang on a minute. I kind of get a little moved when I start thinking about it. In some places, the fort is 18ft tall, and the walls can be like 13ft thick, I believe. And you go in to this doorway, it's just an open area that you go into. No door really, that I remember. You walk in and, you know, I'm just kind of bebopping up. And it's funny because there's sheep in the field and that kind of thing. And. And when I walked in to the fort, immediately I felt this almost like a vacuum. And you're walking into this very thick stone building, you know, structure. And so at first I was just kind of like, wow, that was weird because it was almost like whom? Like, I had just been enclosed, you know, in something. After I had that first feeling, I started looking around at things. And all of a sudden I felt this odd sensation. It started out almost like a little buzzing feeling in my body. Just a buzz and a vibration, kind of almost electrical feeling. Do you know when you go to a concert? You know, I grew up in the 70s, so can't hear very well now. But anyway, so after a concert, you know, that feeling stayed with me a long time. My body, the vibration of that, the concert and the music. And it kind of felt like that. And I kept trying to make sense of it, and I was still thinking, well, I'm in this stone fort, you know, so it's just that sensation. But then all of a sudden, I felt a little disconcerted. It almost felt like I was being immersed into something else. I wasn't there. I could see myself standing inside the fort, you know, here I am. I can see that I'm standing here, and there it is. And I wasn't moving a lot because of the way I was feeling. But all of a sudden, that immersion, it was kind of a fuzzy feeling, and it was like there was another dimension. That's the only way I can describe it happening around me. And that Became something that I could hear and see and feel. When I say hear, I could hear life around me. People cooking, you know, you're stirring. Tools clanging, people talking, rumbles of people talking, Fabric swishing. Probably, if I think about it, maybe clothes in the wind or something, or a tent or. I don't know. But that kind of sounds. Movement. I could kind of understand that there was movement of people around me, but I didn't really see them. It wasn't like. If you ask me, okay, describe them. I can't really. Just like. I don't even know. Like, almost a really fast movie going. I've shared this before, and people are like, well, you were thinking about it. You were imagining. I wasn't. I was not thinking about it. I was not trying to imagine what's going to happen next. I was kind of in awe of and a little bit afraid of what was happening to me. And I have to say, it was. The impression that I got was just full of life. And when I say full of life, I heard a baby crying. I know that it was over to my right side. I didn't see it, but I knew it was there. And there was just this. When I say awe, it was such a sense of awe and being so grounded and warm. Just a feeling of warmth. Just life. People caring about each other, taking care of things. You know, children laughing. I know the ladies had longer dresses on. As they moved, their hair was longer. I had an image of farmers. I had an image of kind of the men having, like, leather on, some kind of leather and fabric. My. My physical eyesight. I could see the fort and the grass and that kind of thing and the wall when I touched it, okay, but there was something else going on around me. But my eyesight was not focused on that. That was just happening around me. The noises were metal y and wood and then just the muffled voices. And at the same time, when I was kind of feeling, oh, my goodness, you know, what's happening? And, oh, my. It's just this beautiful image of life. But there was also an understanding of death, like a reverence of people passing and being honored. Sort of like what we would do at our funerals today, you know? And I really don't know what I think the ring for it was from, like 300 to 400 A.D. maybe. I don't know what their rituals were or what they did for those ceremonies or anything like that, but I. And I don't remember that. It was just the idea of honoring the dead as that was happening. I was Feeling a little off kilter and like, what is going on? But I, I loved it. I wanted to keep going. I, I, I didn't want it to stop. And the warm feeling that I had, it wasn't like sun on my shoulders, that kind of thing. It was inside. It was just filled up warmth. And so I walked over to the right wall, honestly, because I was kind of like, am I okay? You know, And I walked over and put my hand on the wall and I thought, well, you know, I'm touching something that's today. This is going to stop. And it didn't. If anything, it was stronger. And so I was standing there. I think Anna has a picture of that, of me standing with my hand on the wall. And I was just overcome with, I want to call it emotion, but it was more just that awe, the magnificence of life. I'm a Christian woman. I believe in God. I believe in his son, Jesus Christ. And it was the most overwhelming love and feeling of love and care. And that's what it felt like. I wish I could go back and it would happen again. I wish I could feel that every day. But as I was standing there and touching and it was getting a little more intense, I happened to realize, you know, my mom brain, where's Anna? And so I turned around and it was almost like I wanted to share this with her because we're pretty close and things. And so I turned around and she was kind of walking towards me. We weren't that close to each other, but I could see her face clearly and her eyes were tearing up and she was looking at me like she just had a look of surprise on her face. And when I turned around, she told me that I was tears streaming down my face. And I know that they were. And I think she said to, did, did you feel that? Or something like that? And I was like, yes. And it was still there, but I was connecting to her. And the environment that I was in, actual real space and time right there, was still there. And I knew it was, but we were just in this weird connection of, of it Right that minute it was still happening. But right when we looked at each other and she asked me that and I was kind of shaking my head. A family came in with two children, and everyone does this. It's just the fun thing to do. The kids start running up, going up on the terrace steps, you know, and going around the top of the fort and that kind of thing. And normally I would be thinking that was the cutest thing in the world. And look at them enjoying the fort and all this. And I just wanted to say, stop, stop. Don't bother them. Don't interrupt it. This is a sacred place. Just stop. You know, I didn't. But I just looked like, oh. And as I did that and started focusing on them, that immersion just started going away. It was leaving me, and I didn't want to go. I did not want it to go. And so Anna and I, we explored a little bit more of the fort. There's some smaller little entrance areas that you can go into the walls kind of or something. So we did a little bit of that, and then we did. We talked about it a little bit. But you have to understand, it was very unusual. And so we shared it. And my husband at the time was with us, and he didn't experience, you know, that and was looking at us like, okay, y', all, okay. So we went back out to the cars, and the artist was there, and he had some paintings of the fort. Little five by seven paintings. I'm sorry. And I purchased one, and Anna purchased one and that. I have this little library off of my bedroom, and I call it my travel room. So that's where I put a lot of my souvenirs, things that would mean anything to anyone but me, kind of things. And special gifts that I've been given from different places, mission trips and different things. And so it's all in that room. And my fort picture is right there. And when I see it, when I walk in, it's so that I can see it kind of in the corner on a shelf right here to my right. It still gives me that same peaceful, warm feeling. It wasn't even a blip on my screen as far as what this place was like. I said, we did not even intend to stop there. We were tired, and we were like, well, let's just move on. No, this looks cool. Let's do this, you know? So there wasn't forethought to it. It just, boom, it happened. And the fact that she experienced it at the same time, I have absolutely no answer for that. None. I have never had an experience like that before that particular time, nor since. It was a gift. I'll tell you that. It was a gift. I think Anna would say the same thing. We would love to go back, and I'm afraid it wouldn't happen. And that would be a disappointment.
- [48:02]
Lindsay Lohan
Before this happened. And while this happened, I was in that headspace of still being, like, pretty. I identified, still, like, very Christian. And as I was raised and then since then, I wouldn't say that it was a direct impact of this experience, but the experience definitely made me have questions about things, but I don't think it made me doubt whether there is a God. If anything, I could see how it kind of solidifies that in a way that. But I do obviously have questions of, like, okay, how does this tie in with what I believed back then? And since then, I have just gone on my own journey of, like, you know, figuring out what I do believe because of, you know, certain experiences I had in the church and of being kind of talked into believing certain things or scared into believing certain things, when then, you know, you go from that to experiencing something that is, like, really beautiful and inclusive and welcoming, and, you know, it's like, well, I don't know how this ties in with what I always believed, but it's a lot nicer to think that it's not as black and white as I was raised to believe, that somehow on some level, life goes on. And that gives me hope. Like, as a little traumatized kid in the church, like, I was, like, it gives me hope because I was always really, really afraid of death. So it does bring me a lot of peace with that, even though I have no idea what it means. Over time, I mean, my beliefs have definitely changed, and they've ebbed and flowed, and I've gone back and forth with my beliefs. And right now, I'm sorry, I'm, you know, I. I'm middle of the road on a lot of things, but I would still call myself a believer in God, but I just don't think we have all the answers. And I think it's crazy to think that we would have all the answers. And even my mom, when we were talking about this, she was, like, asking me because she's still pretty religious and spiritual, but, you know, more so religious than I am. And she asked me, like, how does this tie in with what I believe, though? Like, how does that make sense with, you know, what the Bible tells us and all that stuff? And I'm like, I mean, I don't know. I think that there's just a lot more that maybe the Bible doesn't say. You know, I don't. I don't know why the Bible would just tell us everything, you know, why, you know, So I know she's really questioning it since I brought it up to. To her. So, sorry, Mom. But, yeah, I mean, for me, it really just, like, somehow the lack of answers actually bring me more peace than all of the answers that I thought I used to have. So living in this, like, curious state kind of brings me more peace than, than anything.
- [51:22]
Jack Wagner
Thank you so much to Anna and Karen for speaking to us. I thought this was so wild and in many ways it reminded me of a recent episode we did called the Vortex with a guy named Reese who was sort of invaded with visions that he felt were connected to the land he was visiting. In his case, it was Sedona, Arizona. But these two experiences really reminded me of each other. I know that it can feel magical while visiting very old places like the one they went to on this trip, but at the same time, I really couldn't imagine something like this happening to me in the middle of a tourist destination. Even though going to a really old place can be beautiful, at the same time, you're usually being bombarded with modern distractions and other tourists and everything else that comes with being on a vacation. I love this story because of the idea that there might be thin places where time sort of ceases to exist and that some people might be able to tap into that, even if it's very brief. I like the idea that you could feel so connected to people that lived a millennia ago. And the fact that both the mother and daughter experienced this at the same time is very crazy and lends another level of credence to this whole thing. Now I know where exactly this took place. They told me the name of it, but they did not want to include include that information in the podcast, which I do understand. But if you're truly curious, you could always just fly to Ireland and start asking local people if they know any old buildings made of stone. I'm sure you'll find it eventually. Thanks again to Karen and Anna for sharing their story. This episode was called the Fortress and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice, Jackal and North Americans. This episode was edited by Haley Pearson and engineered by Theo Shafer. Our associate producers are Nikki Kate Delgado and Hayley Pearson. Our artwork is by Cul de Sac Studios. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you can become a patron@patreon.com Otherworld Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five star review and telling your friends about the show. Our social media is otherworldpod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey. Leah Rhys Dennis, Rob Mirandi, Eric Donnelly, Maura Curran, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor, Michael Lavey, Josephina Francis and Hilary Shaf Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odysee app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural or unexplained, you can send us your story@storiesotherworldpod.com.
- [54:40]
Anna
Sam.